 Welcome to Reader Syndicate 3.0, the next evolution of the look into counterculture that is Canada. My name is Matthew, owner of Riot Seeds, and this started as a one-man mission for strain history and breeding science. Over time, it's evolved into something bigger, better, and more of a team effort. We will be joined by members of the Cannaluminati and other friends throughout the seasons to hear their takes on grow techniques, breeding science, strain history, and more. Our mission is to combat the narrative that corporate cannabis and seed posers are obfuscating for their own financial benefit. Welcome to the Underground. We are the Syndicate. Now, this finally adds what I feel is a great completion point for it, a true breeding line for blueberry scents and flavor. It was our most popular selling line on the original release when we released the first Blue Bonnet crosses. I didn't make a whole lot of them because I really wanted to explore what was in them before I did a major release. We were at that point and it was originally a DJ Short Blueberry from DJ Short's early, early work where he would sell the seeds at different talks that he would do across California at Collectives. Buddy Resinlong picked up some packs. He gave them to me. I went through them and found the best representative of what I thought the most beautiful blueberry was like. But it didn't have the exact scent that I wanted. When I saw that in my mind's eye, as I would look at it, I would picture beautiful blueberry jam, turps, and flavor and scent, just all of it. And they didn't have it, so we made a mission the last five years to make this a reality. And something where you could pop a pack of seeds and it would be almost identical for that turp profile. We're there. They are now released on riotseeds.com. The pre-order's over. They're already shipping out. We also have something called the Modern Blue that we didn't really release. We did it on our Patreon. So definitely check that out. Our 50-tier Patreon ended up getting the lion's share of these with their monthly package. And it was the Mac Daddy, crossed the blueberry end-cross Mac Daddy from a company called Out-House Genetics. And then my personal favorite out of the hype strains, as it were, that we are kind of merging with some of this blue stuff so that we can bring it into the modern generation and get some of the new kids interested. The Sherb cream pie, phenomenally resinous, great hash maker, great yielding, nice long high for a Sherb cross, which is my biggest promosher, cross to our blueberry end-cross and we call that one blue cocky. And yeah, triple entendre there. We have blues for me because it's blast for me to use something like runts for me. With the white runts out of all the runt stuff, I found to be the best runts cross with the most potent high. We did a blueberry end-cross cross to that, bringing heavy, heavy blueberry jam turps to the white runts. And we also have Trotberry, which is the dosy chop, a chop cherry, I believe, crossed to the dosy dose, crossed to the blueberry end-cross. All of these are currently available on our site. When they're sold out, they're sold out. And that's it. I wanted to make sure you're all aware of that. And without any further ado, let's get into our show and welcome Curbside and some of his homies from the Cabana. Yeah, what else have we got going on with the Cabana? Any other future plans you can think of? I want to do lots of stuff with the Cabana. I want to do these breeder boxes where I'm going to get, or I'm going to call you up one day and be like, hey Matt, I need you to donate a bunch of seeds. A bunch of packs, yeah. And I'm going to get a bunch of people to donate seeds and I'm going to try and put together some packs that are like, you know, 10 packs or 20 packs or, you know, given the supply that we can get. But then sell them for like 50 bucks, 100 bucks to members of the Cabana. That way, good genetics are getting out there. They're at an affordable price. I know these days I see a lot of people that don't want to spend money on genetics. And that upsets me because I come from a place where like you pay to play. Yeah. Like you support your homies, you buy things, man. People don't want to do that anymore. And even when they do, there's so many options that $1,000 pack of beans like 10 years ago, a lot of people, you know, there were a lot of us that were interested in buying that. Oh, sure. These days not, you know, so. It ain't happening, Captain. It's not happening, you know. No. Well, I mean, it's a clone culture now. I think there's a lot of FOMO of people thinking that they're going to go chase that one. This is an elite though, but they don't realize that elite was selected from two plants in some dude's closet. You know, it's just one person's opinion. And there's a lot of hype as opposed to a bunch of real smokers saying like, I agree. You agree. We all agree. This is a fucking game. It's a big difference now in that sense. It's artificial hype versus a bunch of people agreeing that this was actually an elite. And it doesn't take much to be proven an elite these days. And there's a lot of good weed out there. I'm not hating on the weed at all. There's some good weed out there, but man, we's not hitting like it used to. No, no, I mean, it can't. It's all cookies based, man. That shit has a 10 minute, 13 minute high and it's done. And I mean, no matter what you call it, cookie, sherbet, lotto, it all ends in the same direction. It's all dead end breeding directions unless you out cross. And most of these people are crossing inwards and inbreeding cookies. And it hasn't done anything super beneficial for the breeding pool out there. No, it's unique. It's not unique. I mean, there's no unique. It's not unique and everything, you know, all these exotics super finicky. The fact that they call this shit exotics blows my mind. Like when we used to think exotics, it would be like Nepalese or, you know, some wild Thai land race or, you know what I mean? Or some Mexican, you hadn't heard of. Exotics now means fucking normal shit you could buy for many. Tom Dick Stanley on Instagram pushing some purple, frosty shit related to cookies, in my opinion. It's just the trendy words. Yeah, around to like hype up certain strains. I mean, I think out of everything that came from the cookies generation from all that, you know, like obviously Skittles was an outlier. I remember one year, right? But it's ugly. And the first thing when I won that cup, you know, I remember everybody was like, oh, we're going to just cross it to gelato cookies or whatever to make it pretty. And then you're reading again. So all this stuff is just like some percentage of gelato, some percentage of Skittles, some percentage of like the old cookie cuts, right? Yeah. And like even runs is basically just gelato S1 or whatever bags need, right? So like out of all that, what are the keepers? Gelato 3341 will probably always have a place on the shelf, right? But all these polyhybrids over there is they're not really bringing anything that new or different. Some of them are a little prudier, some of them are a little gassier, but it's like it's just in there, you know? And at the end of the day, like I've been out with homies and Cali and we go and we smoke a bunch of joints and the old 33 cuts still cut through everything else and flavors. So like everything else is just watered down versions of that. And it's the same thing. Like now people want the original Skittles all of a sudden again. Like we went back to where we were seven years ago. Because you can't keep the clone of that piece of shit. At least it does. Everybody lost it. Yeah. I've heard people just recently paying like 400 bucks an ounce for an ounce of Skittles. And it just goes to show that right now, Terps are king because no grower is going to be like, oh man, I want to grow Skittles. Especially if they've grown real Skittles, then they know they don't want to grow Skittles. But that's the only thing I think new that came out of a lot of it, right? You know, yeah, the motor breath got crossed out so much stuff. But otherwise, like anybody that's doing anything interesting and breeding has been like digging back into other things. Or like land races have been like, you know, everyone's saying and claiming land race crosses when they're not really that. Or you know, you could take any bags. It was a land race. I found it on the ground at a show. There must be a land race. This is Thailand from fucking Cookie Fam and it's in their bag. So we've got a Thailand race. But I do think we need to evolve from where we are right now. I mean, just anecdotally, about a year ago in March of last year, I got to go to Morocco and I toured a bunch of hash farms there. And that was a super dope experience, right? But even there, as soon as I got there, like I got these Moroccan guys, they're like, do you have the runes? You know, and I'm like, of course. They're growing modern lines in Morocco. DNA started doing all 90s. I could tell you the whole DNA story. I got the inside scoop on what they did there when I was there. But but well, I'll just say first, you know, in the last five years, the American genetics have really blown up there like everywhere, right? Spain, Europe, you know, people want to grow all the American cuffs now that that shouldn't have been over. But what happened in Morocco, nobody's grown land race stuff. And everyone started getting all these new problems like cesarean, hot, late and powdery mildew because the strains they've been growing for the last like 1000 years are acclimated to their soil to their climate. And now they're having like, like they're like, I don't know why I'm getting this like stem rot. They're like, they're getting all this cesarean, like losing whole plants that would be like multi-pound plants, you know. So from what I understand with DNA, what happened there was was, you know, through through Crockett and those guys from the Tangi really blew up. They went there and a lot of Moroccan farmers are pretty rudimentary. And it goes back to those orange citrus turps, like that really represents really well there and cut through in the hash. So everybody just went crazy for Tangi turps down there and like bombed Europe with Tangi hash. And the farmers are really successful from it, right? But then in subsequent years, DNA went back there and try to sell like Tangi f2s or whatever the follow up lines of, and they couldn't find that same percentage of like that Tangi orange fino in there. And a lot of the hash they were producing was like bunk. And you have like dirt, dirt poor Moroccan farmers in the mountains that couldn't sell their hash that like couldn't feed their kids end up committing suicide. Like people want people wanted to rip their heads off there because there's really real world, real world shit happen. Yeah, they just went there and sold like millions of seeds and just profiteering and just didn't give a fuck about the farmers or the people at the end of the day. Or just the land races that were there. Yeah, which unfortunately, unless you go really deep in the mountains like it's nobody's really grown none of the younger guys. Yeah, you'd have to be so lucky. Yeah. I saw, I saw gushers. I saw, you know, I saw all the breeders that we've been talking about today. Yeah. You know, cookies. You know how disappointed I would be if I pulled up to Morocco and they're like, look at my field of gushers. Yeah, right? Yeah. Oh, bro. Yeah. It was, it was disappointing for me because I, I mean also, I mean when I was 14, I got to spend the summer, a summer in Spain. I was smoking hash there and it was all Moroccan hash and it all had that like, you know, church infant, like really ethnic kind of unique flavor that is rare. You know, like this turf profile that just doesn't really exist anymore. You know, so everything now is like, it's just a thing of all the cookies, gelato, you know, Skittle stuff we're just talking about, or they're going citrus because like you can't really lose with citrus, and that's all that they're producing anymore. You know, and it's all like Italian and French like mafia guys controlling it down there. The Moroccan farmers are just like dirt poor trying to get their hands on seats. You know, it's a crazy scene. It's interesting. I have, I have this conversation with a lot of the kids that have been maybe coming in the last 10 years and wanting to really get into land races and trying to explain to him, dude, like, you're going to have a really hard time. Not only because they don't necessarily know what the land races would look like as much as I wouldn't. I've never been over there, but I do know who has been over there and how often they sell seeds and the amount of seeds that they sell over there each year in Morocco and how those get distributed to Afghanistan and all the other places. And trying to explain to them, you're a little bit late to the party to be able to discern what's over there. And they just absolutely hate hearing that. Like it's like, you have just, you're wrong. You don't know what you're talking about. It's like, no, really, this is what's happened over there. It's unfortunate, but we all miss the boat. Like essentially, yeah, it's a bummer. You really have to get tied in with the right people to find something that's really been preserved. And, you know, people have asked me, like, I got some, some buddies in Greece that have been able to, you know, link with like an old legendary grower in the mountains there. And they've been able to collect five land race Greek genetics, including the famous Kalamata Red. Yeah, yeah. And they've had it genetically tested with like the whole phylos or whatever there's medicinal genomics galaxy genomics over phylos for sure. So, yeah, well, I think it's the same company now. They, they one became the next one. But, but basically it's a genetic outlier. It's unique. And, you know, they've asked me like, what should we do with the seeds? And they want to outcross it cookies and all the, and I'm like, I'm like, the first thing you do, if you get a hold of seeds from somewhere where it's not legal yet. And then, you know, or Landraith is like, just do a huge F2 preservation. Yeah, yeah. That shit open pollinate make like a thousands more of those seeds and give them out to people. So that's just out there. You know, if you, even if you're trying to like protect it and not let it completely get out there, you still got to give it to some homies and trust it. Because like, because so many things have been lost over the years because it's illegal. Here, you know, here and do it right. You know, if the real seed coat, I know they sell a Kalamata red from Greece. I wonder if that's sourced from them. I don't know. No, because I have some here, but like, you know, they're expensive as fuck, even on the real seed coat. But like, to get like old heirloom Greek seeds, you're really fucking cool. So I rolled the dice. I haven't popped them because I just don't know. From what I understand about it is like, it actually has a really awesome unique chirp profile. It has like really nice colors that express from it. But it just, you know, old school spear shaped fluffy buds, not the flower density that the market wants. That's why people wanted to outcross it basically. Yeah, I've crossed this to cookies. The first thing that they just bastardized. A dead end breeding. Yeah. It needs something like old sensey hash plant or old Afghani one or something like that. You know what I mean? To bring out some of that and keep the diversity without bastardizing it. That's not going to really dominate the chirp profile. That's going to let that chirp profile express itself. But that's the problem with a lot of these land races. When they were bred for just outdoor growing, we bring them inside. They're going to have longer flower times and everybody, all these commercial facilities, chop it eight weeks. That's just the weed that we have now. It's going to herm. A lot of it's going to herm. Like bringing outdoor to in usually has herm issues at the jump and you have to acclimate it, select, do all this shit. A lot of people don't want to put in the time because it's got to be bang, bang, bang. Something new each month. You need a new drop each month of 100 strains to eat your whole shit going, you know? Yeah. It's a different scene, bro. Different scene. The art of braiding has really kind of been lost. Like me and CSI talk about it a lot. Like when releasing new lines, like if we put these out to be tested, if we take the time to test these seeds now, what does that mean? Because other people are going to be releasing six different drops. And they're going to see we're releasing this and working on it and just say they have it, release it. And then while we're over here testing it and doing the real work, it's already been done. Like the idea of it's been out there and done. So now what we've done, even though it's real, is no longer relevant. It's a real bad kind of black hole getting worse and worse and worse. The seed companies have really painted themselves into a corner with this. No testing shit. Yeah. It's a, that's, I think that's one of the biggest downfalls to seeds these days is there's a lot of greed in it. And it's the rush to the market, the rush to be first, the rush to beat everybody as opposed to taking the time to do something properly and right is painfully apparent with the offerings that are available out on the market these days. But there's a few people. I'm interested to know, I want to know who is everybody's favorite breeders are these days. Yeah, let's go around. Okay. Where are you at? I would have to say bloom right now. I mean, we've had real good luck with the airy. Yeah, we just ran the candy fumes. We have another Fino of black maple that we really like. So I think, yeah, he'd probably be my favorite right now. How about you, Chris? Man, that's hard to say. I was going to say bloom to probably to because he's kind of homey and, you know, I've grown a lot of his stuff over the last couple years. But, you know, it's hard to say because nothing has been too impressive to me lately that I've had to grow up. I deal with a lot of commercial facilities. So, you know, I'm not, I'm not in a super heady world right now. Unfortunately, but nothing really punches through for me. You know, so yeah, I'm a bloom, I guess by default right now. I'm going to stack all you motherfuckers down. All right, Kurt, what do you got? Man, Blumko. No, just I love Blumko. He's just such a. I mean, yeah, he does. He does amazing work. That's like, of course, Blumko. But then I just like seeds that I've bought personally lately. Like I just got some stuff from people under the stairs. I really like everything that he's doing with his sour stuff. He preserved a lot of old school res dog shit. That was fire and like a sour Saunders and stuff. And he's another dude. Boom on the cabana like get him the relentless stuff, all the rotten stuff and pretty much everything that I've seen from him. I actually don't have any relentless gear. But everything that I've seen from him is super fire. Yeah, same. I just got a bunch of stuff from Shahbud. Oh, fucking after literally after reader reader. Yeah, after your podcast with him. I was trying to get some cat piss seats. I even hit you up. I was like, man, I'm on his site. It's not letting me order. What's going on? What can I do? Yes. I ordered them and then he intercepted my order before it came out to me and super hooked it up. So 10 packs turned into 100 packs. Yeah, Shah is amazing, bro. Yeah, so I'm going to do a big cat piss project because he sent me a bunch of cat piss beans and cat piss is personal favorite of mine. And the NorCal and the SoCal cat pisses and every other piss variety that I've come across is not what I've been looking for. Wasn't the NorCal one that was like a squatty indica, right? Yeah, it was like that. Like that wasn't the one, you know, I know what Kerb's talking about that like 2000 like straight like litter box in the jar. I almost had a little sweetness to it. Also do it. I will say the SoCal cat piss came from Paradise Seeds Mod, TK1. It was a huge scammer. So I'm really interested to see how his fake San Diego cat piss turns out. I would save yourself the time. Yeah. I've already grown some San Diego cat piss back in the day. And it's not it. It ain't no San Diego cat piss from back in the day. It's not it. So I'm really after hearing Shah talk about the cat piss. Yeah. He actually had me hyped like, oh man, he might have been smoking what I want, what I want to be smoking. I truly hope it is, dude. So yeah, I'm going to try to do that. I'm getting like when I do a seed hunt, I buy beans. I get the beans from everybody. Like so if I'm doing a sour diesel hunt, I get sour diesel from everywhere that I can get sour diesel from and see what's up. So I got a bunch of get some sour diesel from CSI, dude. I already got it. Good, dude. Good. Inspector sent some. Fire. And I didn't even, he asked me what I wanted. And I was like, bro, you got too much stuff, bro. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dealer's choice. Like, you know, I'm old school. OG's Kim Sowers. Like, I know you got it. So whatever. And he sent me a bunch of TK stuff, a bunch of Kim stuff. And man, he does cool things that I really like. Yeah. Like he'll do a Kim D times Kim 91. And then he'll do Kim 91 times Kim D. Exactly. The reversals. And that's, that's a real thing. Even though it's the same genetics, the pollen's going to take differently. Plants reverse differently. The genetics align differently. Exactly. And I love being able to grow things side by side like that. And see exactly what's up. So he, and he sent me some big bad wolf and some big bad wolf too, which is just, just like the reversal. And then I got some old Kim D, Kim 91 from Canorado. Perfect. And it's like stuff like that. It's like, I want to pop all of that together. So I can see, you know, what's what, you know, you know, and so I like inspecting a lot, Shahbud, you know, people who I think are doing just like really good things for seeds and culture in general are like the doctor. I like his podcast. I like, Yeah, Fletch is a man, dude. Me and him butt head sometimes, but I love Fletch. Like from a real honest, like breeding perspective and how passionate he is about collecting and history. I got a lot of love for that dude. I do. We've had our issues as well too. And like with the cabana, I hit them up and I was like, look, bro, you're a huge part of the cabana. You're OG on here. And I got to have you on here. Like anything, any differences that we may or may not have, let's just put them aside. And he hits me back and he's like, yeah, we don't really have that many differences, bro. It's like one, one little thing, one little issue that like spawned out and what so and we see, we've seen each other, you know, yeah, a hundred times over the years and never any issues. It's always all, all love and at events and everything. Man. It's another good thing about the old school events is you really got to know people, man, cause there was kind of like a circuit of people like we were all doing the events. We all had the booths. We all like, you know, we're going out to eat afterwards and everything. And I missed those. So I want to have some cabana events. I know I missed last weekend. I'm sorry, Chris. I was supposed to be a can of con and Oklahoma with Chris and I flaked it. I flaked on him, but we're going to do some events at the Hork, at the Hork Grove booth. We're going to share some booths and be around always working together and stuff. I need a curb there with me to clown on all the new no name breeders. And when we do our can of Luminati events dude, I'll have you guys all invited out. I know it's far. California's far, but you guys are all welcome. You got to be careful who you even hate on these days, man, cause I'm a hater by. I just naturally go to hate. You know, some of these guys are putting in work and just cause I'm old and I don't know. I feel the same way, dude. I agree. I agree. I'm just clowning over here, but you know, I mean, I feel like even in the old, old days, like we always had a reader or somebody that was like the butt of the jokes, right? Like back in the day, me and red dog were at each other's to those all the time. A year and a half, you know, or like it was cool to make fun of sub cool, you know, that was easy to do. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, but you know, every like, I mean, even a broken clock is right twice a day, right? And, uh, and sometimes you got to give the plants credit and what they're capable of over the humans that just interacted with them because this plant just has this amazing ability to, you know, produce these terp profiles. So like sometimes a breeder that's just even sumbling around will stumble across something that's fire. And of course you're going to, you know, adhere it to their ego and make it about them. But it's like the plant has that ability sometimes to like just you find a diamond in the rough and, and that's nothing against any of the new breeders. But like, you know, you could get really lucky when you're working with good parents, genetics, you know, like the example I've always given is like, if both your parents are professional tennis player, you're probably going to be pretty good at that. Exactly. So like, like we had, we had to work with just like, you know, in the early days, like we were just working with Dutch genetics and whatever, like, you know, Mexican bag seed, we could find them. We had to dig hard. It was more work to find something like truly noteworthy and memorable. And, you know, and now it's like, there's so much out there between other people's seeds, clone-only genetic, like you can just grab something and start crossing and playing around and stumble across something, maybe not unique, but, but definitely fire, you know. Definitely a big shot at finding HPLV if you're playing with fucking clones nowadays, you know what I mean? That too. Just the availability of everything too. Yeah. Back in the day, there was three or four seed websites that were actually like legit that I trusted that I would order from. Now, there's a new one every week, man. Yeah. And everybody's got a horror story from, you know, a dealing that they've had with a seed vendor and all of that. And it's just become such a, a shitty business, man. But I want, I want the seed vendors to know that I'm trying to, I want to have exclusive stuff at the Cabana. I want to hook the community up. I want to give good prices. I want to give the vendors good prices too. I'm not, I'll work with you on vendor pricing. I want to make it worthwhile for everybody to stock their gear at the Cabana. So get ready for the store. I really want people to be hyped to be able to find rare stuff and new stuff that, you know, all of these seed sites, man, they got the same stuff too. They might be in stock, they might be out of stock, but it's all the same stuff. And I want to have different things. I promise that if you're on the Cabana, you will find different clones that you won't find anywhere that you might actually, someone might actually share them with you. And I know our guys will all be a part of it, dude. All our whole crew, high and low, so I'm all of us will be there. Yeah. And we're trying to, I'm going to get, I got tons of seeds that I've made over the years. I'm going to give seeds away to everybody who, you complete a grow log, boom, I'll send you a pack of seeds. That's what's up, dude. If you can refer some people, you want to get three people referred and make that little intro and say so and so referred me. Boom. I'll send you a pack of seeds for all the referrals. I just, I really want people to get up there and start, start posting your process. You know, tell me what nutrients you use. Post the pics of, you know, let's get these grow logs going. I want to bring the forms back. So I got, We all do. That needs community involvement. And the more the communities involved, the more the breeders and the people behind the scenes, I can get them involved and bring some people out of the shadows. You know, there's a lot of people who support the cabana that aren't on there right now, but like Bodie, he loves the cabana. Oh yeah, yeah. There are a lot. He's a busy man. He's not really on a lot of social media these days, but I've already talked to him like, you know, he's down for, he's down with the cabana. He's, we just got a lot of old school guys, man. Like I said, breakfast with cats through the other day. He's doing some cool new projects. He's out in Oklahoma with me now. You know, just quickly speaking to TGA sub cool. I think people are going to fucking shit their pants when they find out who owns TGA and what's coming out. Right now. Yeah. Yeah. It's going to be a resurgence of some TGA coming out soon and it ain't no sub. Really? Yeah. Leave a little drop a little dime there. A little sneaky hint. I'm also old school too. Where if I don't like you, I don't care if you've got the best weed in the world. I'm not going to buy your seeds. Yeah, dude. If someone snitched on friends, if someone's done anything like that snitch, I will not support them. I truly believe bad juju passes on, bro. I really do. I don't want good money going to bad people. There's enough good people in the industry doing good work to not have to fuck with that. When you talk about breeders, without including myself, so I don't sound like an egotistical bastard, CSI to me is heads and tails above doing it better than me, doing it better than anyone I know. High and lonesome. I don't know if you guys remember high and lonesome from back in the day. Of course. Poodle nuts, Appalachia, fucking all this shit. I love that Poodle nuts cut. I rocked that. Actually, some of the best weed I ever had was Ken Arata just handed me some Percy seeds he made that were like fire OGBX to the Poodle nuts cut. And it was like straight, that dog walled Terps, but with hard, nice OG golf balls. Cause that was the problem with that Poodle nuts cut. It grew like a almost like a deep chunk. It was like nothing. Oh yeah. It was like a bush fucking yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just little nugget in the middle of all these leaves. Yeah. And but that was like some of the most fire weed. I was like, I wish I still, I would have kept my mom with that. Poodle nuts is still around. We got it back in the circle. So yeah. Yeah. Great cut. Come across that to an OG and find that you know, that like that with the Poodle nuts Terps, but with the yield. Yeah. We can do that. Yeah. Yeah. Hyan Lonesome is one of my other favorite breeders and not just because of his breeding, but like as a human, he's made me be a better human as we become friends. Like he has a moral code that like really is almost second to none. As far as like how you treat people, how you treat your customers, how you hold yourself as a man. Those are the kind of people I like meeting, you know. And you know what? In our first can of Kavana episode, getting to speak to Howie and D-Man and Skitty, like I was intimidated by Optimus Prime, bro. Like I was kind of scared to talk to that dude and getting to talk to him one-on-one. He is one of the coolest motherfuckers there are. You know, same with D-Man. Like all those dudes, I think it was a great, it was great for a lot of us that even been around for a long time, that have never really had a lot of dealings with them because I was always kind of intimidated to really break that ice dude. And there are some really, really cool down-to-earth old school dudes that made a change in our, in our safety. Man, and I didn't get a really touch on it too much, but like, what Howie did with the Kavana, and not even as much with the Kavana, but what he did with the community from the Kavana, like, it really was, it was like, it was an honor. And it was, it felt cool. Like we were young, man, so. Yeah, it was special. It was, it was special. And when, you know, to meet the old timers and some of the people that we met over there, you know, Scoosh, N-C-G-A. Oh, I love N-C-G-A. He's my, he gave me my first booth at Emerald Cup. He was the first old school dude that was like, you know what? I know everybody hates your ass, but I'm going to bring you to my booth. You know, I think, Matt, that was the first time I met you was when you had that booth. Yeah, Emerald Cup. Alaska, Alaska Elliott was over there and he was like, you know, introduced me to N-C-G-A. And I saw he had a booth chair with you guys. That was like, like, 2015 Emerald Cup, 2014. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When I was super, super fat sitting there all fucking squat. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I remember that. That was a good year for the Emerald Cup. That was the last year. I think you actually may have chewed me out because I went back there to kick it behind the booth and you go, who the fuck's this guy? And I went, oh, friends with the friends. It's a guy. Was it Bakes Alaska you were with? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right. I remember. It was this tiny little booth. I remember kicking you out of the booth. Yeah, yeah. 20 people in a four foot space because like N-C-G-A, if you know him, he's like 10% Ron. So he had told me, he was like, yeah, just give me 10% of your sales and you'll share a booth. And I was like, cool. And I get back there and there are six other people. He's sharing this four by four booth. Oh, no. And I just basically set up there. They had clones behind me. So everybody thought I was selling clones of my gear and I'm like, I'm just the seed guy. I'm like, I don't want your fucking seeds. Give us some of those clones back there. You know? Yeah. I love Ron though. Just give me a shot and take a chance on me. That was one of the best parts about Howie and Skitty is because it gave us the automatic intro to like the old timers. Yeah. And outside of Howie, bro. Like if you were a old timer, you didn't really fuck with the younger generation. No, no, yeah. There is no reason for you to. Yeah. You weren't trying to deal with any kids, but Howie always, man, man, here's my mom room. Take whatever you want. I would go over there anytime, you know, I had a project going on or something and I needed new moms or something. So I went to Howie's and see what he had because I knew he was going to have something new. Yeah. It was nice to it was it's kind of weird. You don't realize how spoiled you are until you know you never do. The struggles that like other people go through and you're like, oh, wow. Yeah. I never had to deal with that shit. I would do that shit too. Like being in SoCal with the hogs breath through. I was fed shit early on like the pure kush when it came out by a rogee all that shit is clones right when it dropped, dude. One of the first people with Kim D in California. It was just there. Fuck it. You know, and then later on, you realize how many people just didn't have it and how early you had it. Yeah. And how many people wanted it and like how like you just you don't appreciate things because and I'm guilty of this because yeah, same. I've had so many dope things that I wish. Damn. I wish I had this back and thinking back on like just old school cuts from like our little crew. Yeah. Southern charm from still too big. Like a great cut. Abusive OG. Whatever happened to the abusive OG? Supposedly some people are floating that one around again. I don't know. I'm skeptical when I hear that people got abusive OG again, but I'd like to see it if it is. Shoreline's back around though. The old shoreline cuts back around. I've heard that. Still cool. Yeah. I mean, the Kems I think always kind of stays around. I mean, you know, that was that was the Kems stay around, but we all rocked. Chem four. Pretty. Pretty. Yeah. Yeah. I know. I think I ran nothing. I think I ran nothing, but cam four for a long time. You guys ever get to run? I've never ran. Cam one. I saw inspectors doing some work with it. I did. I'd be interested to see what that's all about. What's the closest comparison to? Super silver fucking Hayes, bro. What? It's an NL five Hayes dominant cut. And that's when we were able to realize, OK, motherfucker, now we know. Chem four wasn't just a bag seat at the same thing. This is obviously an NL five Hayes cut. That's almost all mercy. And it's it's very obvious and had a lot of. Yeah. And then, you know what I mean? Like it's got all the traits in all five Hayes. It's very strong, very strong. It's true. It's true for five percent plus terpenes, though, for a mercy. Which is special in its own right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. See, and it's like only somebody like inspector could come up with chem one. Yeah. I kept it ever since Joe. Yeah. You know, like nothing. Yeah. I. I mean, there was a point where I probably had. 80 moms in my. Yeah. In my basement, my little condo. And I remember. My neighbors called and snitched me out and I ended up getting rated. And of course, I called like all the cabana guys. I was like, man, everybody come to my house. We got to break everything down right now and get your cop gave me 48 hours before they came back. And so I remember everybody was over there. I think, you know, it was a free for all, bro. It was a free for all. And that was one of those things where I had caregiver cards from each person. Yeah. From patients, man. So cops showed up and they were just so confused. They're like, is. They don't know what to do. Illegal. They don't want to mess with nothing. But they knew they ended up getting me on building violations because I didn't hope her needs to do like my electrical upgrades and things like that. Anything you guys ever come across free for all the club? No, I've never even heard of it. I never grew it. It was Mr. Nice. Oh, was it on Mr. Nice that FFA was being passed around? Yeah. I think they were the ones. Because it was a mass super skunk crossed to something. And I can't remember what the second part was. He would he push or something weird. I always, I always thought it was could be out of it. Maybe it was Mr. Nice. But it was funny because it was called free for all because it was everyone to grow. And it got immediately locked. Yeah. The situations. Chris had probably the best sour diesel cut of all of us. He had the Easter. For sure. Where'd you where'd you source out the CSD Chris? That was the one I gave to Harry Palms that he used in all his sour crosses for for Blumco for everything. So I originally when I first got to Denver in 2009. I got it at Cam from Anna C. Was it the Choco cut or ECSD Choco? Was it that one? No, honestly, I think it was a Fino from Rez's sourd 3.0. Which was pretty representative. I mean, you know, over the years, I grew the hell out of that cut. I felt like I perfected it. And people passed me the AJ cut. People passed me some like fish tour, ECSD cut. People passed me like four or five other sour diesels and nothing stood up to this one. So, you know, once again, I'm not going to like, you know, based on the breeder or whatever, but it's like that that shit was the truth. That was a really fire sour diesel cut. It can happen. You know, like I said, Harry, Harry Palms have been breeding with it. And, you know, I've passed that to a lot of people. There's one that came out of Colorado. It may be not out of Colorado, but it was passed by you guys know Stacy J. Muir. Yeah. Yeah. He was the one who passed it to, it made its way to Caleb. And that's the one the CSI uses today. That's how it works. Muir used to come to a bunch of Cabana gatherings. He's a great dude. I need to get him on the show sometime. We've been talking about it forever, but that dude's got a history going back to the 77 crew and all of it, dude. Something else. Yeah. And, you know, he runs the overgrow reunion page on Facebook. Yeah, he does. Yeah. He knows all the old school guys, man. Yeah, dude. Legit motherfucker. Really, really, really respect that dude. I saw, now this is another cool thing about the Cabana. Maybe you know differently, Matt, and I was just mistaken, but, uh, Knucklehead just posted up that he spoke to Loran the other day and he's cancer free. And I was under the impression that Loran had passed away in December. But no, Loran is alive and well. That's fucking rad. Yeah. That's good news. That's good news. And that's the type of things that you can just randomly learn over on the Cabana, you know. I remember, uh, because we got all the old guys who actually talked to Loran still. Yeah. You know, I remember, uh, Chimera posted at one point that Tom Hill had died, killed himself. And I remember eulogizing Tom Hill and shit. And then here he is popping up again later on. Like, oh my God. Is there any like Columbia or something now? Oh, no. He's up north in California. Tom Hill is as Tommy as he gets. He's going to be watching this. I guarantee he's always in the chat rooms under the name J. Cash. Shout out Tom. Big daddy Tom. I love the 10 pound plant threads from back in the day. Those were a real inspiration for me. Oh, yeah. That one specific thread that in the Tom Hill form like that 10 pound plant outdoor thread. But I had like just a wealth of knowledge. Like, like probably a third of what I've learned total about outdoor growing came from that. That's for sure. Tom Hill Hayes times everything, man. I'd hit that to everything. Yeah, dude. And he just recently did a repro or had someone do a repro of the Tom Hill Hayes. So there's more of the back out there. I don't know how good the selection is. Yeah. That's the hard part when people try and bring back the old school genetics. Like, man, mother, you know, parental stock is different. And I don't know. I feel something about old school seeds. I don't know climate change or something. They were better back in the day. I mean, Phil, Phil's, he did a big pop of it. Right. To pick the one that he did. I'm sure he did. I couldn't tell you the exact. He had a really good selection in Tom Hill Hayes as much as I love Tom Hill. That shit was grass, carrots and hay. 99% of it that I saw 100% of what I saw. But I know there's good shit in there because I've seen other people come across it. And what I saw come from social it was fire. Absolutely fire. Hayes is one of those things that you got to do. Bigger numbers in man. Ten pack isn't going to do. You have justice for it. He had said it back then. I mean, that's why he only had like a couple of things in his life. But he had a lot of genetic, so the breeder, you know, on a I see mag. Those were all preservation runs. He wasn't like, you know, he wasn't trying to breed for any specific treat. He was just like, here's the whole hodgepodge of Hayes DNA smashed together for you to keep smashing together and keep finding things for eternity. You know, so that's really what he did. to find a winner in 10 or 20 seeds. Yeah, he was always really open that it would be like 10% keepers, 90% move. And for a long time, he sold them cheap or even you'd even get a freebies on seed bay and like you'd be like, oh, I'm more hay seeds, I'll never grow these. And now everybody wants them. It's funny how everything like goes around in circles like that. Even worse was the Santa Skunk Man, Ty Skunk Hayes, dude. How many people got 90,000 packs of those? Yeah, I think I still have some of that somewhere. The funk or whatever is called, yeah. I ran some reefer man, original Hayes and that shit went for like 17 weeks, bro. Looking reefer man, bro. Yeah, it doesn't even start showing pistols to like week five or something. Yeah, he's selling up. That's the other thing, man. So many breeders like you get their gear and then they end up doing something and you feel like you're on the Epstein list or something because you got a pack of them. Oh, he definitely got on that list, bro. He split up me and Neville. Me and Neville were doing a project and for me that was like a once in a lifetime thing. You'd be able to work with Neville, the guy who started it all, right? And reefer man was playing real cool with me and having Neville like source stuff for me making promises like, yeah, you get this from him, I'll send this and I was like, dude, he has a bad rep. I ain't saying that he has shit and that was like, I got it, man, if he fucks you, I'll cover it. And then reefer man slowly started telling Neville, yeah, if you work with Matt, you're gonna look poor. You're gonna look like a poor person because he's not like, not well-loved. Sure enough, split it down the middle. Me and Neville never finished the projects in the end. He used some of the stuff that we didn't do it together, you know, past that six months and then reefer man ripped him off and bailed. You know, it's just like one of those things where it just, I can't change these stripes. But there was some good shit in some of his shit, you know, like the Butterscotch Hawaiian had some killer shit in it. But then I find out that was made by Scabby from white buffalo, you know what I mean? Wild, smoking mirrors everywhere. What do you feel about, how do you feel about people white labeling seeds? You know, I've done it for, you know, like that's when me and Carmel were friends, I would make seeds where I'm letting white label them. I think it's a necessity for some breeders now and an only way for a good breeders to make some money. I do have issues with the people who take those white label seeds and pretend to breed them and pretend that they're doing something they're not. I don't really have a lot of respect for that. I do realize that it's an important part of the industry and it's always gonna come there. But you know, like walking around wearing lab coats, pretending you're doing all this selection and pictures and stuff and then going to buy your seed to be selling. I kind of have a ton of respect for it, but I realize it's a necessary evil, you know, in other ways. I don't fault the breeders who do it. Like they do it for the lab. Yeah, exactly. I mean, it's always gonna be there and I've done it. Like I don't know if they go spring for other people so that they could get like this great reputation of being breeders like Carmel, you know, just how it goes. Normally, I wouldn't even say their name, you know. There's plenty more. Because it is what it is. It's just something that most people don't know about. Most people don't know about it and don't understand how often it happens and it just is part of the game. Who do you think are the best seed vendors these days? Vendors or breeders? Vendors. There's only a few that I think really go for the idea of quality over quantity. Like there are people that I like as humans that run seed banks. Like I like James Bean as a human. I hate about 90% of the people he carries because I know for a fact they're frauds. And, you know, and like he pushes that whole thing where it's like, yeah, I vouch for everybody, you know. Shit like that bothers me. You know, there's good companies in Australia called the Gurt by Seeds is a good one. There's one here called Lifted Genetics that really goes out of their way to make sure everybody they carry actually breeds, does hard work, all that stuff. But it's few and far between. It's so few and far between if anybody who even knows what they're carrying, most of the guys that I see drinks don't know shit about the genetics they're selling or the people doing the quote unquote work. It's hard. It's hard. And that's why I think what you're going to do is going to be super fucking important. Super fun. I think people like having access to things that are smaller projects, you know, they're not meant for the masses. They're meant for, they're meant for Cabana members, you know. I have no respect for the attitude. Anything like that. It's just another market for frauds to help frauds push their shit into seed resellers, remarketing shit that isn't what they say it is, that they're buying in bulk, repackaging under their different... I'm always literally just, sometimes I'll check out the attitude just for shits and giggles and the list of breeders that I see on there. And I'm always shocked at who I see on there. And I'm always shocked at like, who the fuck is this dude? I'm no idea who 80% of the breeders on the attitude are these days, you know. Yeah, there was a company called Best Coast Genetics. I was looking at the other day and having to giggle at it because they were selling Ms. Jill's stuff. They were selling all these fake versions of everything. They had a picture of, what was it they were saying it was? Chem91 and you go look at it in a straight cookies. You know, like shit like that and it's seeds here now. And it's like, dude, you should know better. Just even by looking at this picture, you should know that's not Chem91. People got lost in their version of Chem91. And it's like, oh. And it even says Chem91 clone only. And it's like, oh, that's fucking cookies. Like, ah, Chem91's an ugly fucking plan. That's good. Yeah, it's hard. It's hard because I get, I get there's always gonna be a need for that. It's not anything I can do to make it go away. But with this show, I've done everything I can to break down the myths. Even if it ruins my reputation doing it. Even if I am the villain for doing it, I'll never stop fucking doing it. I've gotten snitched on for doing what I do. Swat teens at my door for doing what I do. And I don't give a fuck. I will keep doing it just because someone's got to do it. And hopefully I'm right all the time. Maybe it's just my perspective too, because I can't always be right. But I try to get it as right as I can before I say it. Usually if I say something negative about someone, it's someone that I've had to reckon about. And know enough about them to say it. Yeah. Well. You know, it is what it is. It's hard these days. But over at the Cabana, we're all pretty friendly. Yeah. I'm pretty friendly over there too. I try to like keep that part. I try to keep that kind of shit to my own show and my own space. You're a whole new map these days, man. I try to be a little nicer. That's the hardest part for me too is I try and be nicer too. Because Oki and Chris will tell you I mean, I'm a nice guy, but I'm also asshole, so. Yeah. I can't snap out of asshole. I've seen Kurt handle some negative interactions on the Cabana recently. And I'm reading what he says. And I'm like, bro, this is like the Kirby that I know. This is like, this is very, you know, like. He's been very diplomatic, dude. He's been very diplomatic. I'm trying to be because the, you know, Howie and D-Man and Skiddy, they, as harsh as their rules were, they listened, they would hear you out. And they would listen to if somebody wanted to talk to them about an issue or a problem, like, you know, they heard it. And I'm, I can't fix every problem and do everything that everybody wants on the Cabana, but I am trying and Skiddy is helping me. So he's doing pretty much all of my technical stuff. And so if I have a problem, I hit Skiddy up and be like, Hey, man, you know, somebody told me the backgrounds aren't working. They can't change their background. So yeah, I don't know anything about computers. I still want to set you guys up a discord. So you have some sort of like, I think that they can work, integrate really well to each other. The Cabana just for like an all-time chat room versus- I got a live chat on the Cabana that I want people to start utilizing. Pop up in there in the morning. Is there live chats on there? There's a live chat on the Cabana. I'm trying to make it. So we don't have to go to an external website. I mean, that is the idea, right? That's the idea. So that's my hold up on the store right now is, I'm having an issue with credit card payment processors. That's going to be your hardest. It's such a pain in the ass. But one of the things is Visa has sent out some major major or made major issues. Like even if you can get a credit card processor, Visa has hit two of the major seed banks with $250,000 fines per transaction that they find people using Visa to buy cannabis seeds. So even if the processor lets you run through and do it, Visa will come after your ass and come after you for 250K per transaction. So it's kind of terrifying. Little tips of the trades that I've been gathering from so many people who vend their own seeds on their own websites. I've been talking to everybody. I used to be the king of it, bro. Like for 15 years, I was the only one doing it. I was going to say, you were the first one who always had your own site. Yeah, yeah. I had you, everybody hated my ass. But man, that's the... You probably did better than everybody else because you didn't have any middleman. So even if you did half the volume, you're making the same amount of money because you're doing it all yourself, so. I had one credit card company that worked with me for seven years and it was amazing. And I made the mistake of telling one person that I thought I trusted who I used. And then they fucked me over and then turned me into the credit card company. And I lost it. And ever since then, nothing. And I started to go back to looking at using them. And then a few of the big, big seed banks got hit by Visa. And I was like, there is no fucking way I wouldn't blow my brains out after getting a $250,000 fine. That would be it. That'd be awful. Yeah, so until major banks are willing to work with it, I would be very, very hesitant to do that. There's Bitcoin, there's cash and other things you can use in the meantime and get around it before we get involved with Visa because they are a nightmare right now. And they are literally chasing cannabis seed sales specifically and someone on that 24 seven. So funny how like, you know, they do the farm bill and they say it's legal and everybody kind of starts, you know, you see it really open up and, banks are popping up and people are, you got clones going every which way. But then they still don't, you know, they're mad about the money still. And so they can find a way to fully get their hands on that fucking money. That's when it starts. Yeah. I mean, that's not good for us, but it's... We gotta mint like a Kavana crypto token that we can use for buying and selling seeds, you know. You know, back in the day, I want to do like a bean for bean trading thing, like let's get a thread up there where it's like, man, I got this pack of beans, what you got? Yeah, dude, bring it back to the days. Love it. Trains where it's at, trade up, trade for what you want. Someone else gets what they want. So you got cards, everything, you know about trading? Oh yeah, dude, I want to do a UFC card thing on there too. Get some people into UFC cards, bro. Yeah. You know, and like the weed cards, you see those weed cards that I got? I do, and there's a couple of breeders, like small guys on the Kavana and the breeders forum. And if you're a breeder, man, start a thread in the breeders forum. Show us what you got. But there's a couple of guys over there who are selling packs that come with like a pack of weed cards. Yeah, dude, I think it's a great idea, dude. I love the collectible aspect of that, man. Because you know what these days, man? So many of these people, and I'm not hating on seed collectors because I'm a huge seed collector. I got a ton that I'm not gonna pop. But a lot of these guys just collect seeds. And they want- Like baseball cards. Like baseball cards. And they want the ones with the dopest packaging with the limited run something or whatever it is. And they want that. And I'm not faulting them for it. No, no. I appreciate it, man. If they're buying my seed card, I appreciate it too. I appreciate the effort. I hope the genetics match the packaging. Exactly, you know what I mean? Packaging. Did you see that big fucking uncut sheet of cards from the inline 1994 series? Like a lot of people don't know those things existed. The Mel Frank, Rob Clark, they took all those pictures in the 70s and 80s of Panama Reds, Silver Pearl, all that. And they're in this old, it's called the inline hemp series cards. And my homie went to a storage space of some dude and picked up the uncut fucking sheets, which in the card collecting world, that is rare as fuck to get an uncut sheet. He picked up like 20 of them. So I'm gonna be handing those out to some of the homies, you know, probably worth a few grand, but yeah, fuck it. Those are awesome to have stuff like that, man. My buddy Bobby O gave me a bunch of old, old seed catalogs, man. Oh really? Which ones? Ah, man, I just moved and I don't know where they're at. You're gonna dig them up and I want pictures of all of them in case of ones I don't have. I'll post them up in your threads. Please do, please do. In your forum over there, because there's some cool stuff in it and just the history and seeing where we were to where we're at in the genetics game. It's also so important of learning about what's in your current day genetics. Those catalogs have opened up a world for me, absolute world of understanding what I'm working with, what I'm seeing. Neville did a great job of describing and documenting his stuff. So like, you know, like on our Breeders Syndicate discord, I have all those catalogs up for everyone to see, you know, the joins and I put them up for free on the commandment as well because I think it's important to share that. So we're on it, even playing field so that there's no, you know, information being secret scrolled away. Everything like that should be seen so we can all learn. It's not all bullshit we're looking at. It's facts, you know what I mean? As close as we can get to facts. And back in the day, they actually, they wanted to tell you what's in it. And these days, like, I'm so skeptical of when people even say, you know, oh, this is Runtz or Lemon Cherry Gelato or something. It's like, what cut are you doing this with? You know what I mean? I mean, the fact is all gelato looks the fucking same, bro. So like you could pass off whatever is whatever. The dead-end breeding section. You know, there's so many gelato crosses and S1s. It's like, are you really rocking this to G33 or, you know, gelato 41 or what is this really crossed to? And I think, I think there's a fair majority of the market out there where it's like, they have a nice cut of something. Yeah, it might be great. I'm not faulting them, but is it really the same? I mean, and that's the thing. They know most of the market won't know anyway. So what the fuck do they care? It's a short cut. Yeah, collecting is it's a thing in itself that takes time. You have to make relationships, earn trust from people to get some of these rare old cuts. And a lot of these guys just don't get that because they didn't have the forum experience, which is why like I impressed so hard on some of this next generation. You have a chance to learn what we went through during our era by joining the Kavanaugh and interacting there. You get some of that forum experience. You get to learn some of the ins and outs, the dos and don'ts. What stepping on toes really means. Like it's all there to be learned. Like learn it, learn the culture, keep the culture alive for us, you know. And you got to respect the clone or the seed or whatever because you'll see real quick, like on the Kavanaugh, like news, we might not have that much traffic, but news spreads like wildfire. So if you did something to somebody or, you know, they're not, you'll be on the do not, do not send clone lists real fast. The old black list. Yeah. That's a damn sure. So it's pretty easy to get on the, we'll help you out list. And it's even easier to get on the, we don't fuck with the list. So. Because as much as the industry and the community's grown, it's still a pretty small club, right? And everyone kind of still knows everybody, you know, there's not a lot of like young crews that are really like making motion on their own that aren't, you know, falling on the back, standing on the backs of giants, so to speak, right? So like, we're all still connected. Like we're just sitting here trading stories. Like we were all bumping elbows 10 years ago. You know, right? Like, you know, and here we are. So it's, and if you're still in it now and the plan on being in it for the next 10 years, you're gonna, you know, you're gonna bump into people. I mean, I've always said that, like you can't, you can't burn bridges in this industry because it comes back around real easy. Some people are just here to make a quick buck, I guess, and get out, but I don't think that's any of us here, you know. We're lifers. After this many years of running, you know, you know that we've all got issues with being obsessed with this shit. Yeah, for sure. Had dreams about it, like close your eyes and that's what you see. And that's what you, you know, eat, live, sleep, whatever, all of it. Yeah, collect it. Like, I mean, I got this old original, I don't think you can see it here, but it's the old original Hayes cosmic boogie poster. Probably spent fucking way more than I'd ever care to admit on that motherfucker, but it's because I live, dream, sleep, strains, you know, the marketing, the history, the culture, and I know all you guys do too. What's the most you ever spent on a pack of seeds? Probably a few grand. Like realistically on some old, Callie Mist, I think. Yeah, a lot. Yeah, a few grand when seed money was good. It ain't good no more. I don't really care though. I used to, man, I was the sniper on seed bay, so. Yeah, what was the most you ever spent? How was it? It was a few grand. On what? I think it was a res sour diesel of some kinds. Yeah. You'd always do limited drops and then auctions and all of that. And when I first got into seeds, like buying seeds, res was like, you know, the new generation, kind of like top dog at the time. Yeah. And it's gear was fire, like, you know. Yeah, yeah, I mean, that's a month. I'm on some anti res shit, so no questions there, but it's gear was fire back in the day. So. Yeah, yeah, I mean, he was using legitimate shit, using the real KMD route, using real sour to do what he was doing. There's no way it wasn't ahead of its time. It really was. I just wish he was a lot nicer and you know what I mean? Yeah, it is what it is. I still don't like swerve worse, so it's all right. Yeah, they were both on the cabana. It was funny. Reza actually hit me up. He's like about forums and he's like, how do you get a forum on there? You know, I was just like, yeah, I just picked the homies and everything. Yeah. He's not going to have a forum. Don't worry. Yeah. I mean, like, you know what? Like, you know, I don't have any hate towards a guy. He's been cordialed to me. The snitch thing for me after being, not even after being snitched. I've never liked snitched, but like, after dealing with what I dealt with the past two years, getting attacked by, you know. His was such a big deal at the time, though. Like. Yeah, dude. It was bad. It scared a lot of people. It did. It did. I remember deleting all of my pictures on ICMAG and everything. Dude, yeah. It affected everyone. How to pack all the evidence. Yeah. Like. But. He did it in sourd, IVL, and that was his contribution to the industry. And I feel like, like I remember going through packs and packs when he did his chem D IVL. And I had all the chem cuts, you know. And I was like, these are all just like, leafy. He didn't do this. His BX2 was way better than the IVL. IVL crash, I still have some. When he worked with the chem, I didn't think he did anything amazing with it, you know. Like I think JJ had the chem in a much better place back then than Rez did. But Rez got lucky with the sourd and was able to, you know, get that in a pretty good representation and seed form. And that was his contribution to the scene. And then when he went down, he did everybody dirty. And, you know, that showed his true colors. He was just never nice to begin with, dude. He was always a fucking dick. So it was like. Always a dick, man. I would spend so much money on seeds and try and ask a question and like, get ignored for months and then get like a word reply of like, no, or, you know, like. I think he had a lot of troll accounts back then. Yeah, and he was, he got high and lonesome removed from ICMAG for a little bit. So I'll never forget that shit either. That's my boy, you know, that's my boy. And he was trying to get to the bottom of the chem story before anybody else was. He started the chem one on one thread. If you guys remember that. I do. I see that. Yeah, yeah. And that pissed a lot of people off. Him trying to get to the bottom of that story because nothing was making fucking sense. Yeah. You know, and now we know a lot more than we did then and still pissing people off with that info. It's funny. Some people will never give up and they'll always have their own versions of stuff. But I go with what makes the most sense to me. Yeah, you know, like after being able to S1 a lot of these plants go through their populations, seeing what lies in them, out crossing them, seeing what you're getting in the out crosses tells the real story of what's in these plants and just knowing other lines and being able to see what was in their room, get a good idea, run those lines, crossing it. You'll find out chem 91 is the pure one. Chem sys, the original chem sys, not chem A, which was the second chem sys. The original chem sys was probably a sister of chem 91. Everything else is a hybrid or a hybrid of a hybrid when you get to the chem one through four, which is like an NL five haze, chem 91. The chem D would be like a chem 91 mass superstar. Things like that became very true and easy to see after some time. And they don't like those stories. Those are not stories that help their situations, even though like they were in their teens. Like I get why they would say what they did and did what they did and like, no blame there. I love chem dog Greg. I love that dude. He's always been so cool to me, but like, you know, plants don't like people do. So it's always turned out sometimes people are just ignorant to and they did not ignorant just, you know, unconscious into what yeah, you know, yeah, and especially when you get a plant and it's not like you get a piece of paper with a, you know, a car fact on this thing, you know, yeah. It's you got to take it, you got to take it for what it is and what you can make off of it and then see what happens with it. At one point, chem dog said anything that comes from me is chem dog. And that was one of the first telling things, you know, and then certainly as over the years as people started getting different chem D clones that came directly from him and comparing them. And we all find out they're all kind of similar, not. That's when things like really started hitting the fan and it became very obvious something different had happened. Yeah. Kim D is so recognizable. You know, if you've grown it, you can spot it immediately. Yeah, I feel like we had the real Kim D back in the day. And that was probably, that was probably all, you know, hops laden also before we knew what it was. Right, yeah. All that high maintenance like need for the plant, you know, so. Oh my God, yes. I mean, I, last time I talked to Ken Arado, he was still growing all the same chem cuts that I passed him. You know, that was like years ago on the forum with him. Like he was just a tent grower before he was a breeder. Oh yeah, yeah. And he just was just begging for like a legit chem cut. And I remember people just like, oh, you're just a tent grower and I felt bad for him and, you know, I had this warehouse and, you know, I was like, I was like, dude, you're right down the street for me. Like I just meet you at this gas station. I talked to him the 91, the four and the D, you know, and I think he's still the same cuts he has till this day. So if his are legit, mine were legit. Yeah, that was the cuts we all had from the crew that all was like from Halley, from the Cabana, everybody that was on the Cabana then had the same. He's still rocking them. So, is Canorado still rocking them? I'm not there. Are you? I'm not. I'm no girl right now, unfortunately. I'll get back there. You'll get back there. Anything we can ever do, just let me know too. Anything. For sure. We'll jump up. I'll be jumping back on it. I've got a couple of things in the works for the next year. Awesome. But like I said, I've been, you know, stuck in the corporate matrix of cannabis for the last couple of years. It's been just a different perspective. So it's like, it's nice to have these conversations about the old days and like still know that there's people that care about not just the history, but genetics themselves about the plant, the quality, you know, like, because it's just, that's the piece that's really missing. You know, everything can't just be sales and marketing. Like there's no substance to that. No, there isn't. Not the end of the day. Yeah, we're losing a piece of that. You know, so I think that the pendulum will swing in the industry the other way in a couple of years, but you got a whole new generation of young smokers, consumers that, you know, they don't know. So they have to be educated, you know, and they don't know what's possible. So I forgot who was it just posted it, like on Blacklist or something on Instagram, like in the last couple of weeks. And someone in the comments was like, oh, all weed came from cookies. And it was like, and people were making memes about it. They're like, oh, weed came from cookie. Like, you know, like, you know, but that's because that's for the information. There's no good data, like neutral information that's out there. The only thing there is this place is like the Cabana, because everything else has a marketing spin and agendas to sell something, you know. Agendas are not marketing. Yeah, yeah. And that's like, there's a lack of purity. That was what was beautiful about those old days. Like, we were all just excited to just have it and be there and you know what I mean? And it wasn't... And what some people don't realize about the Cabana is it was invite only. Like somebody had to invite you. You had to get approved. So it really like limited, like the stock of people that we had were already top tier, you know. And the, you know, all these breeders that we talk about and stuff, they were all members of the Cabana at some point. You know, they got invited. They got approved. They were on there for, you know. And they were part of the special community because it was special to be part of something that, you know, anybody could be on ICMAG. Not everybody could be on the Cabana. Exactly. Most of them didn't even know Cabana existed, to be honest. It was invisible. You could Google it and nothing would come up unless you typed in the exact web address. Yeah. The exact web address up there. You would never find it. And that was by design. Yeah. And it's been, it's been crazy doing it. It's totally dark web. Yeah. It's been crazy trying to adjust to the new modern times and try and make the Cabana feel that way. Like it's still kind of exclusive but open to the public. And that's been the hardest part. But it, I think people are coming together. We have more visitors averaging online every day now. So we're, any given time there's, you know, close to a hundred visitors online now. That's awesome. And those are small numbers when you think about, you know, THC Farmer and ICMAG, but they've been open 20 years to the public. Quality over quantity, brother. Quality over quantity. Quality over quantity. And so come, come over to the Cabana. I want everybody to register. We need people to register. That's the driving force. Start commenting and get some threads up there. Website scrolling across the bottom here again. So there should be no confusion about how to get there. There's no fucking excuse, fellas and ladies. More ladies would be nice, you know? And if we got ideas to do anything, you know, you guys got an idea for the forums. The feed store, I think the feed store is going to be the most vital thing because we've talked about it, you know, having something that's free of all this marketing and hype bullshit, something that's like a neutral territory for people to buy, sell, trade, genetics, like it's huge because I mean, even Matt said it, like there's no real domestic seed vendors that are even doing it, right? Cause everything is just pumping hype and marketing. So if you just have like this neutral playing ground, you know, and in addition to that, we can have open discourse and discussion about it, but just the neutral marketplace of seeds where, you know, any breeder can go up there and just list it, but you're not getting extra hype over anybody else because you're paying more because like every breeder is just on that even playing field and it's about the genetics. And like it's amazing that we're in 2024 and we still don't have an online seed vendor that exists, that can do that. I really truly believe there needs to be some vetting too. I really do. Like there's gonna be people of course that don't have big followings that should be on there because we know that they've been making seeds forever and are good people, but there are just so many shit bags that'll sign up that are just gonna exploit it, you know? That's a hard part. That's what the forum is for. So complete grow log, you grow this out, let's see it. You know, if you're somebody that we've never heard of that can't show improve anything, of course you're not gonna be a vendor on there. Luckily, we got enough vendors that can show improve that have been doing this a long time that are trustworthy that I got no problem making people wait until they can show improve. You know what I mean? I'm not saying no to anybody, but you gotta go through the process and improve yourself and then boom, you can do it, you know? And you know, most scammers won't go through the process of doing that in the first place or kind of weeds them out pretty fast. Exactly. So there will be some work. You wanna be able to offer seeds on there. There will be some work, but that's through the actual store. I want people to know that on the cabana right now, just as the general community, it's an open market. You're welcome to talk to people and if they have things that you're interested in and if they're willing to- I can tell pictures of my feet, you know? Just get it out there. And I'm sure that there's a couple of people on there that might be into that. Yeah, I know. I don't even know what kind of market you might find. But yeah, man, trade some seeds, man. Get, you know, let's get some garden picks up there. Let people know what you got. I want, it's always been a community of sharing, man. So I want people to know that it's, you know, well, share, get on there. All right, you guys. Oh, some beans. We actually got a long ass episode, which is fucking perfect. I'm probably gonna cut it into two, but I wanna see any of you. Let's start with Oki. Give me some last shout out, some things you wanna get out there. Any certain ideas you wanna come across or that you wanna get across overall on this episode? I don't know. I mean, I'm just happy to be invited here and show some support for Kerb and the cabana. And, you know, like Kerb had said, the can of cabana times and the barbecue days were really like probably one of the most fun and special times of my life. And, you know, I hope that Kerb has success in bringing that to, you know, a new generation and a much wider, you know, mass of people. Yeah, I did. I'll have to give Oki some promo because I don't think he's gonna do it for himself, but go to his Instagram, Borneo Bud, Borneo Bud Brian and check out this facility that he just built down in Mississippi. It's state of the art. It's absolutely amazing. He's got, he's doing phenol hunts of different seeds all the time. He's got some great genetics and they're crushing it. They're the number one brand down in Mississippi right now. So definitely check them out. Send me an address, Oki, on the cabana. Send me an address to send you some shit. Yeah, for sure. Appreciate it. You too. All right, Chris, what you got? Man, this is, we got to cover a lot of bases. I feel like I got to say a lot of things I wanted to say. You know, little things. I was just at Kanacon in Oklahoma City last week and a lot of people came out that were homies and there's still community out there and I still feel blessed to be in this industry even though it's morphed and changed that I got in almost every legal state, I got people that I consider good friends that come out that, you know, so there's still a lot of like positive idea. We all kind of went down a little bit of a negative wormhole about different things and there's a lot of things that suck but we're calling them out. But overall, I just want to end it on a positive note and say that it's still a beautiful time to be alive and be doing this and then be talking about a plant that gets its eye and be making a living off of this. So let me just say that. Of course, I got to say thank you to Hortgrow. You know, if you guys need cocoa, like I said, cleanest, best quality cocoa, building a whole story around that. I got some other things in the pipeline coming soon, possibly a nutrient line that I'm working on. Of course, supporting Kirby with the Cabana with everything, just, you know, grateful for my time in California, grateful for my time in Colorado, grateful for my time even in Oklahoma. Baker's Field, bro. Baker's Field, Arvin. Even Baker's Field, Arvin, to have to be like, like there's so many places that I feel at home at, you know, that cannabis that this plant has brought me to. Like, you know, I've been around the world to four continents, thanks to cannabis, you know, like literally, you know, Columbia, Morocco, Spain, you know, Amsterdam, all over all four time zones of the US. So, just want to have a lot of gratitude for that. And I still think there's a lot of future for people that are really focused on quality and working with good people and being a good person. I don't think you have to sell your soul to make a living in this business. I just think it's just the trend right now, you know. I'll say this about Chris is, he's the guy I always call when I got a question, bro. And I'm gonna give you way too technical of an answer. And I tell him every time I'm like, dumb it down for me, bro. Talk to me like I'm stupid. And he knows how to explain it to me because he will give you the by the book answer on something and I appreciate being able to call him. He can take your nutrient lines and reverse engineer them, help you with dry salt formulas. He did great things for me out in Oklahoma. I think he helped Oki down in Mississippi as well with some dry salt stuff. So anybody who's got questions with that, hit them up. And he's got- Get people off Athena. That's what that's my mission. Yeah, yeah. For sure. Way cheaper, same results. It's all essentially the same thing, man. He can get you guys dialed in. And he's got a help desk for HortGrow on the Kibana. So if you got any questions, you can hit them up on the Kibana, right on his forum, post your questions, get a little public conversation going about it. And you got the HortGrow discount for the Kibana. That's awesome. Up there. So go to their forum. You can get the Kibana code. Get 15% off of HortGrow order. Beautiful. What about you, Kirby? Man, I appreciate the opportunity to win Skitty. And I had kind of tossed it out to D-Man or Optimus a couple of times about, let me do something with the Kibana and try something and just the right time came and they gave me the opportunity to do it and I appreciate them so much, man. Cause I know it meant a lot to all three of them and it was a big deal to let me do something totally different with it. And I talked to Howie all the time. I talked to D-Man all the time. He helps me on a regular basis with everything site related. And Skitty does all the technical stuff for me, man. And so it's been great to, I talked to them on a way more frequent regular basis now since taking over the Kibana than I had for a couple of years there. And it's been nice just to have regular communication with those guys and for them to trust me to do this. It's great that I got so many homies that wanna be involved that I've met over the years. And even though it's slow, everybody's still involved and pushing for it. And we just need to get it popping. And I think we can have something that's super cool and unique, different than Instagram and different than the other sites, be kind of a little more modernized. And yeah, I want, you know, cool kids again. Yeah. So everybody register, that's the biggest thing. Let's get these registrations up. And I appreciate all the support from everybody, man. And I hope people take advantages of the new things that they can do on the Kibana and the history that's there. And let's make some new history, post some new stuff. There's a whole new generation of strains and clones and information that's underrepresented. So let's get some new information up there from everybody, you know? And it's super easy too. You can take your posts from Instagram and just copy the link and put them in your post in the Kibana. So in the reply thread, just copy the link from Instagram, put it in there and boom, it'll put that picture right there. It's super easy to upload pictures. Everything should be a lot more user friendly with the new platform. So hopefully people are figuring out any questions. Holla at me, D-Man. Somebody will help you out. And again, I appreciate the support from everybody. Matt, for having us on here, doing multiple heaven shows, listen to us jabber about stuff that I thought only me, Chris and Oki cared about, you know? You know what's funny, dude? In doing this indicate, when I first started doing this, like it was an Instagram live feed, right? And there would be like 20 people in there listening to the app about genetics. And slowly but surely ended up being, you know, 300, 400 people watching live. And at no time did I think it would ever surpass that. And usually it was just people trying to egg me on to talk shit about something, right? And as I brought it onto YouTube and realized now we've got this discord of 500 people and they're all super interested in genetics, a lot of them from the next generation. And it's given me a lot of hope because I didn't have a lot of hope for any of it. And it just goes to show like you put in the work, it'll fucking happen. If you stick with it, you put in the work, it'll happen. And we can all make a big fucking change with what's coming. We can reignite this culture together. I'll tell you, that's been the hardest thing for me because I'm actually, I mentioned it before, like I'm a natural hater, but I'm really trying to embrace the new generation, man. You gotta give them a lot more credit than I do. Sometimes I'd naturally want to hate on some of these guys, but then sometimes I see what they're doing and I'm impressed. So never forget that you can learn something from the young guys, man. Yeah, dude. I'm learning all the time. A prime example of it. I know we're going super long here but a prime example of learning from the young guys Big Willie, man, out in NorCal. Willie's garden and greenhouse. Yeah. He's a young kid. I've known him for forever. And he grinds harder than anybody. He works nonstop. He's always like... I love that. Like grinding hard and he's learning new tech and he's taught me a ton of stuff over the years, man. So always listen to the young guys, man. Yeah. We've got a good crew of young ones in our closed circle too that it blows my mind that there are young guys that give a fuck about this stuff. And like I said, it gives me a lot of hope. And I think even this episode, people fucking loved it the last episode. They're going to love this episode. And the more often we do this, the more we integrate, the more change we can make together, guys. And I want to see that seed site pop up because I think that'll be a big difference too. Absolutely. So I appreciate you guys for carrying that fucking torch. Keeping the forums alive. It's important to all of us that were there. And I think it's important to share the culture with the younger guys who work and give them an opportunity to get part of what we are. And let's make it our own again. Instagram's not our friend. No, it's fucking not. Not at all. It's not. I know it's easy and it's accessible. And that's what everybody does, but man. It's a dying medium and your shit can be gone overnight. Exactly. And all of a sudden you're not connected to anyone. This is- You just don't even, you're just someone else's. Yeah, as soon as you post it, it's not yours anymore. Exactly. Exactly. So come on over to the cabana, man. Matt, I appreciate you having us. Anytime, man. I appreciate you, bro. Yeah, dude, I appreciate all you guys. It's a pleasure talking to all you guys face to face. And let's do this again soon too, even if it's just a fucking round table, shooting the shit about where we think culture's going. You know, anything, topical news. Let's do it. Let's fucking do it. All right, fellas, and with that, salute you guys. We'll be back again next week and hopefully we can get some of these fellas on again very soon. Thanks for being here. Have a good night. All right, thank you. I just wanted to take a quick moment and thank everyone for showing up. Again, Kirby and all the homies from the cabana. They're always amazing episodes. These guys are real passionate through seed collectors and what they're doing at the cabana we're really supportive of. Again, decanicabana.com is where you go to sign up. You can also go to riotseeds.com again to pick up our blueberry and cross stuff. There's multiple hybrids of the blueberry and cross. Also for 420, which we're gonna announce on 418, we got the high and lonesome's new mango haze drop. And we finally have Matt Elite's different ChemD i95 hybrids. I am so stoked, been working on it for years. They are, in my opinion, the best Chem91 regular seeds where you can reliably pick out like amplified Chem91 turps, along with a bunch of really true breeding through OG Kush seed lines and regular lines. So you can make your own OG Kush seed lines with the males from this stuff. Matt Elite's stuff is above and beyond. It's why I've hounded him for years. There's only gonna be a few packs available of each. He doesn't think there's gonna be a lot of interest because he's missed the seed market the last, I don't know, four or five years. I know you'll love it. So please go check that out at riotseeds.com. We also have Riot Seeds Seed Co Europe. We have Gurt by Seeds in Australia. And then of course, Lifted Seeds in California. Takes credit card processing. Great guy, carries Cannilluminati members. Couldn't recommend him highly enough. We're gonna try to get the blueberry in cross out to Australia, possibly Europe, depending on how everything works out. Maybe Brazil. The Brazil drop is coming very soon. Very, very soon. We're gonna have a bunch of our fem stuff over there. And yeah, don't forget, we have the Giesel fem stuff on the site. There's multiple different Giesel crosses. Some of the skunkiest stuff you're gonna find. We also have stuff from Subrob under Seed Trip in the fem section. We have a skank dog and the SSSDH, which is his 98 Super Silver Hayes Cross 2 Sour Dub. Sour Dub is a dank fucking clone. If you miss it, you miss it. That's all there is. Again, I always say this. I can't reiterate it enough. When things sell out, people will ask me where it's at. They finally get into it, but their Johnny come lately, and it's gone. You have to go to other people's seed collections and pay a premium. So go get it now. And if you're a member of our Patreon, you get an automatic 30% off on all the blueberry in cross stuff that I'm doing. And yeah, we also have Goat Farms New Drop with some of his Blue Dream crosses, which are also available for 30% off if you're a part of our Patreon. So please go check that out. Join our Patreon. This weekend's UFC 300, and we're all watching it. So be there or be square. And with that, thanks for coming to the show. Thanks for watching it. The Cabana is really important to me. It's important to CSI. We want everyone to be a part of it. We want everyone to use it. And yeah, we plan on it being our sister website and in accomplishing the goals that we have set. We can only do this as a community and it's a great community there. With that, lots of love and we'll see you next week for part two. Want to sit at the table with a syndicate? Check out our Patreon and our link tree or description below. Our merch site is officially live. We have all sorts of shirts, hoodies and goodies to sort you out and shipping is super fast. And most importantly, the quality is top notch. I've been saving old designs for years for this purpose, so please check it out. Syndicategear.com. We also have an underground syndicate discord where we get together and solve old strain history together daily. It's an amazing community of learning away from IG and it's an amazing resource for old catalogs and knowledge. We hope you join our union of breeders and growers. Come check it out.