 Yeah, nothing but worry on that. Well, wait, so do you do what what will you put your money on for being? Better the Batman or multi-vice? Obviously it's more low stakes less variables to worry about There's a funny element of like well, which which one is traveling through multiple dimensions like oh, yeah, right That's the which one is trying to do a billion cameos versus which one is trying to just tell its own story They're not even gonna try it involved Explicitly steadfastly a standalone project. I mean obviously there'll be sequels and spin-offs and stuff But it's trying to be its own thing I think there's much more reason to be optimistic for the Batman than there is for Doctor Strange Yeah, it looks like there's some level of what we call artistry involved Absolutely Absolutely, it feels like there was a vision there You mean yeah, we're retelling artistry because I mean most of those matters it's gonna look cool. Yes work We don't say that you guys madness would definitely look cool There are a lot of cool shots in the trailer, but I guess Batman already like Batman has a lot of cool shots But also I expect it to Like tell a story, you know Like we haven't had any quotes of Robert Patterson saying, you know, I don't know what my arc is when I was shooting the film He doesn't he doesn't he isn't going fuck Batman in the trailer. Oh, that's a shame That's like a seal of approval that shows on it's like is it coming up to four seasons that that thing I think I think so Titans, right? Yeah Did you look at any point or no Titans still going Yeah, but remember like the CW flash has already been renewed for like a ninth season and nobody watches Fuck a ninth season We still have to get on our bat woman or else and so yeah, we stopped watching that woman now. No one does Yeah, oh, yeah, she's actually tweeted the other one while like you guys All in good time. Oh, yeah, but yeah, we are live How are you doing? Oh, hello We're here today to have a little have a little chit chat and to finally explore a divisive Negative opinion on arcane because we were gushing over it way too much Things totally fear that we should involve a different perspective and that's what we're gonna do as well It's probably trying to catch up on the many many messages. We've had related to our cane This will be the end of the arcane and arc which was all of February apparently kind of strange What else are you guys thinking what else is there to say yes people be like acknowledged Elden Ring be like, yeah Me metal and Probably gonna be old people who get to the end of it I don't know if DAS well, but that means there's potential Discussion, you know Yeah, I mean I may have been up until five in the morning playing it because it's the only fucking chance I've gotten these days, but I'll probably not finish it before you guys for a while because it's tough what's going on lately, but yeah, I Have enjoyed it, and I've got some things to say negatively about it, but mm-hmm. We're all good outing I have so many things to say There's no things to say for Oh my god, and yet everyone's still in chat. Look at them. They're waiting. Yeah Yeah, well we'll tool around we'll consider a Nepent we just talk about Elden Ring I'll see why not the only problem obviously being that rags and free have not played it, but They I'm sure would be very interested in the topics to be brought up related to video game design Yeah, I might take a look at it if we if we set ourselves to doing an e-fap. I might Get it play a bit someone has already asked Always metal Playing Elden Ring. He's doing an Elden Ring. Yeah Even over there. I think he might even I don't know like play it until the e-fap's done. Who knows? quite committed You feel a super shot free. Yeah What no, I didn't It's distracted me Well, we can probably just jump right in right there's no reason not to I guess there is no reason for us to not do that Yes, indeed. I'm gonna give you guys the old lunk to the oh, yeah, so Uh Jay might show up. I don't know I'm I'm pretty sure Jay do this was happening. She's probably very asleep. That's okay. You a little sleep I don't sound like you're happy about that. I sound pretty neutral. Don't I? I think I think you're trying to sound neutral but in doing so in that case That's exactly the tone. I'm going for as long as I don't sound I am actually neutral. There you go Are you neutral for me? How do you feel right now? Mm-hmm Yeah, I guess neutral is probably about the app description. All right Das you feel a neutral Yeah, pretty pretty neutral. I'm not gonna ask the excuse clearly fucking enraged Let's descend into our moods becoming horrifically negative after we watch this video. Well, yeah, that's there you go I'll get some contacts going actually. Let's see if this is in Okay, see that is not the way it's supposed to be screen capture Display Ruinned there you go. It's The arcane stuff. Oh, I think that's just my computer. Sometimes it Switches the screen names and so it flimps it all around So I will say I don't know if you guys noticed it But watch together just like changes the way the window looks every once in a while It's ice because it's slightly bigger than usual. I and I was like, yeah, this is gonna fuck up the Yeah, I guess the graphic designers need to get paid somehow. Like, yeah, we fixed it again What did you fix? Oh nothing. We just changed it. Yeah, look at this changing is fixing right Snizzle that I've missed out on now. I gotta make sure I don't scroll too high So I don't give away the URL but there we go Do All right, anyway, yeah, so When looking at different bits and bobs of arcane analysis, I had come across a channel And I didn't realize it was the same one as the one we're covering today. Unfortunately, there's someone who makes shorts If I don't know if you guys ever watch shorts on YouTube, but sometimes they recommend They're like YouTube's attempt at being tick-tock basically It's like the videos are typically like 30 seconds or so something like that And he's made a few for the characters in in arcane and there's a couple of moments in arcane And I think they're a bit question marky and he's made videos for those you'd be like Oh, this this is this because this is this this this this and it means this the character and it's like, oh That's that's kind of neat And I liked a few of them. I was like, these these are all these are cool and I agree And then someone someone very cruelly was like, hey Want to watch a video about arcane that about its bad characterization. I was like, oh, I mean, okay fine Let's get some opinions and it was from that guy I was like what in the world? he's um He is a he is a writer I believe and he is exploring arcane as a way of I don't know expressing and learning about You know, he's written the way to do it. Oh, no, no, no, no, I just it's just something that I know he's right Probably I can't say but um Yeah, I'm trying to think of what one of the preamble would be necessary other than just go Well, um, I know that Mola discovered this video while I was streaming like a week ago Provide a lot of comments on that while we were having an unrelated discussion. He just keep chiming in with new Observations, so well for my POV it was the reverse Well, sure, I Guess that's true. I think the Jedi were on point right? What do you mean? Don't have attachments Makes you evil also respect your uh users as though they were your your anyway, uh, so This shouldn't like it made me angry, so I can't wait to see what it does to you lot The now it made you angry. Yeah a little bit did actually make him angry because he kept coming in with angry responses I left that part out because I was wondering if he wanted to give that away Um, well, I suppose people are going to be curious why we're tackling it and it's like that is going to be the reason um I I assume Marcus is fine. Well. Yeah, so the character on the As shown by the thumbnail it is Marcus Um, I wonder if we should give a little thing before starting this up. It's just like what do you think of Marcus? It's like well, I mean Rags, what don't you what don't you because since you couldn't quite make it for that last bit of the the previous FAP you can open with this right? What what's what's the deal with Marcus? Why do you hate him? What's the deal with Marcus and why do I hate him? I don't actually hate him. Uh Marcus is a very Marcus comes across in arcane is probably one of the most realistic sort of characters In the sense that he seems like a character that a lot of people could become and a lot of people could find themselves being either unwittingly or otherwise he is torn between His desire to protect his family To try and do the right thing to try and live up to the to to the the lofty example of people he respects and unfortunately that leads him to compromise often on his Values for more pragmatic purposes and he hates himself for it He is not a he's not a cheerful villain sort. He is not evil for evil sake. He's not He is he's definitely torn out a lot of things. He's caught between a lot of different directions and I I really like the way that he's written out He doesn't get too much Screen time compared to a lot of the major characters But what we get of him she was a very conflicted man who ends up doing a lot of bad things for potentially noble goals or at least understandable ones, but he's uh He's being pulled a lot of different ways So Marcus is uh one of my favorite written characters in the series And I think you would be pretty hard pressed to try and explain or convince people that He was uh, he was a low tier character in terms of arcane's grading scale Yeah, um, it was there was an interesting amount of appreciation for him when I think a lot of people might just miss a lot of His story or at least they could And uh, you know, he talked about stresses as well. He's arguably he might even see himself this way as the um The biggest reason why there isn't all that war between zorn and piltover is a careful balancing act in sorts, but also with the The deals he makes with silco um Arguably for peace, but also like if jinx goes too far then something has to be done But how much power does he actually hold with being able to push anything like that? Uh Lots of lots of stresses. I find him to be quite interesting To think about especially the choice to wipe him out. Um in episode seven is uh A lot to think about um Anything else and want to add about him before we check out a different perspective Um, nothing that hasn't already been said. Um Initially, I thought he was just going to be another uh, fucking joffrey where he's all like Ha ha ha hate me hate me. I'm dead now. Aren't you happy? But it uh He turned out to be quite a bit more complex than that. Um, a lot of people had just said like, oh The only reason he's complex is because like oh, he's he's got a little girl And but it's like okay, but the thing of it is in order to be a parent and actually like want to be a parent You actually have to have some good in you, right? Because you know, otherwise, you know, you're just selfish and everything but Well, he does have a side of him that is selfish like he is at least You know Willing to do some things for others. He just doesn't know how to go about it in the best way possible In a way that you know, he knows best So I don't want to get too much in on it because again, I'm just going to repeat what a lot of other people said but I would say He he he was slightly more redeemable In the sense that he he wasn't like pure ass evil, which was kind of nice Yeah, um last thing I'd just add quickly is I think it's something I said last time where I find him really interesting as a character who is full of all of this Anger and rage at not being able to be a better person in the situation He's in and I think that's really interesting because I don't I don't think I see that kind of character very often in media And how often do we see them? Like there's a goal and they're just it's just cut off like this story just doesn't have that closure It's just it just dies that that thread and um How much it represents a lot of his goals in life and stuff We talked about that in prior episodes and so um, I think with that We can it's so funny because it's straight away. You guys ready for this Straight away. All right. Well I'm just gonna enjoy the the fireworks. I suppose Let's do it. There's nothing interesting about this character. There's nothing nuanced about this character There's nothing likeable about this character and the characters arc goes nowhere and then he dies He starts off with four horrifically incorrect things asserted boldly in the first seven seconds So I can see probably shouldn't I I'll play the next few seconds. Just to get the full context and Is he doing a thing where this is the criticisms levied to him? Well, let me I'll just play the rest now That's what I thought when I first started looking into this character But what I realized is that good character bad character wrong discussion to have when it comes to marcus his characters Uh Is it how is that how is that not the only discussion? When it comes to a character whether or not they're a good or bad character isn't the discussion to have it's like What else are we gonna be talking about? Feels like Other things if you wanted, but why can't we talk about this especially in a character heavy show It seems to be whether or not a character is good or bad is is a pretty Oh, the title says how a great show uses a bad character. So we are talking about whether he's bad, right? The only no because he said it's done. It's over. He's bad. But yeah, how is he used? It doesn't mean bad in terms of a bad person or a badly written Badly written Assuming badly written in this regard the descriptions of underdeveloped or no undeveloped he is I was gonna say if we roll him rolling back to nothing like a little about this character Okay, so too. So the uninteresting and unlikable are vague terms that don't tell me anything And all I have to say is I like him and I'm interested in him and I thought he was it Yeah, so whenever you're thinking about talking about storytelling avoid interesting and likable because these are vague terms I'm boring these are vague terms that are difficult to define And if somebody just disagrees with you and says well, I found him interesting You kind of have nothing that you can counter there Whereas if you say like on nuance, there is more that you can identify to latch on to to support your position Yes, I figure you can that's just bringing tip of the day. Don't use the term uninteresting or unlikable. It's not helpful Yeah, no I completely agree if you're trying to translate ideas across to people who disagree with you because When you say nuance everyone's going to be thinking like oh, does he mean like there's more Dimensions to their character. There are multiple things that drive them That's probably what and you know, you can figure that out you can definitely get a definition and Generate a sort of Standard for the character to fulfill and agree on it and then see if they fulfill it and decide on the on the pieces from the actual show Yeah, but likable like I don't know man What are you gonna say? Yeah At the very least if you're gonna use that like I think you just have to provide the references and the reasoning behind it That's anything that can be interacted with because the term is Empty in that sense. It's well. It's bizarre to me because like I know Rags liked him a lot genuinely when watching the show So someone telling me like nah, he's not likable. I feel like I don't it doesn't that doesn't that's not compelling at all Because it's just not true. Yeah You have to tell me why and If I said what if all rags he is unlikable because he you know causes damage to a lot of good people He's he's he's spineless. He's bull. I think you'd be like, okay You're you're telling me things about him that you don't like I guess Well, then well, then well, we use that and you say, all right So you don't like silco too silco is unlikable in the same way Is it just is this are you just using this as a replacement for heroes and villains? Is that all you're using this word to mean? You could definitely get some conversations out of it because I think Unlikeable is a mistake here, but undeveloped is a really interesting one freaking I think you made a video video video about this Character development is Is yeah, not every character needs to develop some characters can be static and it's okay Sometimes it's better for them to be static based on their role in the story Yeah, so I mean as an issue is uh It's not an issue for a character to not be developed if they are underdeveloped It's like, hmm So I guess you could pull that they were meant there was meant to be more to them And it just kind of didn't hit the mark But undeveloped is like well, there are a lot of characters who are undeveloped in stories because Purpose that they serve is not to change Well, imagine I said emperor palpatine in the ot is uninteresting unnuanced unlikable and undeveloped He's uninteresting because he's just I'm evil. I'm gonna take over He's Evil he's unlikable because he's a bad guy and he's undeveloped because he doesn't change It's like you could say all of these things Yeah, I like palpatine. He's a really good place to go a lot of the time because he is a very simplistic and static character Um, yeah, but he serves his role very well. So yeah, exactly Darth Vader's role is to be more complicated and to change That's his purpose in the story Yeah, from like the writer's perspective and it just means that this you should have access to all kinds of options But hey, he said that this was what he thought Let us see until you realize that it didn't even matter that he was I don't even know Because uh, I can't remember how this goes This arc goes nowhere and then he dies now That's what I thought when I first started looking into this character But what I realized is that good character bad character wrong discussion to have when it comes to marcus his characterization is flawed Yeah, fine true, but if that's what we think the conversation No I don't agree. You haven't even you haven't even established that I'm just like waiting for the thing. Yeah, I would like to know It seems the the progress of the video is probably going to be explaining why he's a bad character And then how he's used really well. I think that's the idea the video is going to go for so we'll at least get our references Okay, it'll be fun If your answer for this character, you're missing a lot about what this character is all about because let me tell you No other show is handling its flaws this way. This is crazy. It's a bad character But they handling handling its flaws this way What did you mean by that? That sounds like the show like they were aware in the writing room while making the show that marcus was a bad character But instead of fixing it they decided to like rebuild around them Which is I don't see that I don't think that's how it goes. I don't think which is How would that be the case if you identify that the character is badly written? You're like, well They're just exist as they are. I can't change them. It's not like I'm the writer When the writer determines that there is a flaw And they believe there to be a flaw. Usually they will start going about fixing it Not yeah, not whatever this is supposed to mean Well, yeah, because it is a confusing way to look at it because he seems to It's like he's one of the in the writer's room with them Like yeah, you guys did an amazing job with such like a flawed character And by that I mean a badly written one that you guys made Wait what it almost feels like wait you guys didn't know They did they're like, well, we got a bad character. How are we gonna fix this? Well, maybe we can put some drywall on it and We could paint over it and put it in the back so no one notices and don't give them a lot of screen time Yeah, that's a good fix This isn't worth harping on too much But the writers in the writing room aren't aware that they put out a bad character Usually they will probably think it's a good character until the audience picks it up and goes this is shit And then they're like, oh Your race might disagree and they might eat what the audience says and think it's valid or they might not Who knows You get so much utility out of him. It's just as impressive as their good character work So starting point marcus. I'm interesting. I'm new on Jesus Christ Okay Oh On isek's Which is like like a vow of chastity is on isek's It's all right. I'm gonna hit that play button now I'm characteristic of arcane. No other character who gets this amount of screen time fails in any of these categories, let alone all of them So he does still think this is true then I didn't why me I'm getting mixed signals here. I really am because he's saying he fails in all of these categories, which are just the I'm desperate for him to expand on this I please Man, the depth of you. I'm interesting on you also like a ball and undeveloped. It's like, oh, I like all that They're just they're just so vague This is the character analysis He's still on his intro. I'm sure of it. I'm literally just short you for a pink second said it's fun Also, I guess on the subject of likable I feel like it can get a little bit complicated because When we talk about liking a character I feel like we're generally not referring to whether we would like them as a person if we if we met them, you know Like I like palpatine, but I wouldn't like palpatine if he existed He was in my living room. Yeah, no, I like him as a character I agree with that. But like that that's the other thing that gets super complicated I can like palpatine just for his performance the actor I mean, I could be like his performance is so good We're like, well, so what do you like about him like meaningfully as a person? I'm like, oh, fuck all but I just really like the the voice and the the presence he has, you know I could say that but So likability can come from so many different places This is why it's such a difficult thing to be definitive about so I think in media the attribution of like the Like you have the quality of being likable I don't think that really works in media the way it could work in real life because because of that manifold If you're looking to refer to likability in a character as the traits they have that are Traits one would enjoy in a friend in real life or something like that. Wow, that is limited That's not even Nobody does that We don't Show you what I mean. You look at any character and let's take interesting. What do I mean by that? Well, our slum brawler character is a small teenage girl. Our slum boss is a pacifist and really okay So, okay, so What if our brawler wasn't small and they were just big and normal could they not be interesting? Oh god, this is so we've just opened in an enormous can of worms interesting means slum brawler character equals slim Obviously pointing out there's a level of juxtaposition with the characterization therefore interesting I feel like that there's got to be more to it than that Oh, there's so many things to say about this Well, wouldn't wouldn't the main thing be you haven't told me how well written she is all you've done is just give me a description It's almost like character pictures Yeah, like I don't know anything about her based on this. So is she interesting? I don't know who she is Like how do we define And because you know like din jarin he's pretty interesting in pitch, but he's terrible concept. Yeah But he's he's just nothing. Oh, I thought you meant the tone of his voice when you said pitch and I was like, no, not really monotonous But yeah, if someone said like, you know veteran bounty hunter who lived through The war like his childhood was being, you know, fucking obliterated by warfare and the by the cis You're like, oh, shit He has a hatred of droids But at the same time needs to work around and with them to conduct his business And uh, he gets caught up in Luke Skywalker's shit. You'd be like, okay That sounds real fucking interesting And look how it turned out Also, hi j Hello You decide to show up. Yeah, fuck Yeah So I was busy doing your mom Nice All right, should we Should we should we just play that opening for j? Okay, we'll we'll we'll scroll back to this part Are you it's a double dip and this is not is it is it on is it on zero for you? It is on zero. I think interesting. I was just seeing the words I hope if you showed me this already the opening of this video did I I think When you were like, I was ranting about it. Were you in the call when I was doing that? Yeah, we were you were right about this. I was in the call and you showed me the beginning of the video I don't I don't remember it 100% if you want to show me again. I will I'm gonna do that right now There's nothing interesting about this character. There's nothing nuanced about this character There's nothing likable about this character and the characters are goes nowhere and then he dies now So even if that were true, what would be the problem with that? It's just like he is a Side character. You could totally have like an uninteresting Character who's just there to be a plot device and then dies when he's no longer needed for the story. That's not bad writing Yeah, we oftentimes Decide I guess on how significant a character is by screen time. Um, obviously plot impacts are really important as well, but The idea of like there's probably some, you know, like Caitlyn's mum, for example Someone said like what was her arc? It'd be like, well, I mean I remember the the animation that played creations did of The I don't know if any of you guys remember this. It was the the guy who pulled the lever on the death star He was a bad character. You think anything? Oh, yeah, I remember that. Yeah Yeah, we were trying to go with this whole backstory. I've just googled plagued and I was hoping to get me Oh, yeah, that's a bit played only word And you didn't get the result last fucked up youtube's just All right, well, so we we just got to this point But I mean you look at any character and let's take interesting What do I mean by that? Well, our slum brawler character is a small teenage girl Our slum boss is a pacifist and a really good dad. Our hardest working character is physically deteriorating before Our hardest working character So our eyes our smartest characters are really ignorant and dumb. These are all unexpected I've got problems with all of this. God. God damn I I you're the way that you're characterizing them uses different traits of their Small teenage girl for she's not that small And she's only a teenage Relatively she's absolutely not small like like that's the whole point is she's built up. Um, she's pretty built But If he's saying like in a broad sense like she's she's a teenage girl though, and then she's supposed to be the brawler It's like how interesting is that I for me? I'm like, well, I'm that's an idea. I have to see what happens next I don't know who she is. All you've done is give me what she is not who she is saying You know a lot of people seem to think silco is one of the best characters when let's look at his description He's just crime lord Oh I feel like that misses a lot of the nuance Yeah What's the incredible juxtaposition with him? Maybe maybe he's gonna have him in the list. I don't know But like it's the I don't know. It's just like I don't think this is how you define interesting This is very strange way of going about it. Yeah this is like pre writing 101 But idea of like what to make uh ideas of how to make an interesting character It's like when you go what a bounty hunter with a lightsaber. What about that? Yeah, exactly that This is just a high concept Interesting in concept alone You're right. It's just concept It's tri-concept boba-fet, but rides a rancor. What about that? No, what if there was like sonic, but he was like black and edgy Uh, yeah, like a benza like a benza Oh, dude, they need like a shout of the hedgehog bad the little red strip probably show up in the like the hedgehog It'd be great. It's this is like, um, like I don't want to be too mean out the bat This is like a fucking this reminds me of like when I was 11 And I went to movies with my friends and they would come out saying like oh What if that was like batman, but he was evil and he was evil batman that would be so interesting It's like that's the same level of commentary. I feel your friends was zack snider when you were 11 He's like a 30 year old who's like, oh my god He's so many ideas. No one's listening to me. I guess and then you told him no one should listen to you I feel like you could make these kind of descriptions of bad characters as well if you just Reach, you know, well like I love them like Kylo Ren villain confused Yeah Arms wide Boba Fett. He's a crime lord, but he's trying to be a good person. It's not interesting Yeah, like a crime. Oh You see like all of the shitty characters we've had lately like they kind of satisfy this don't they just the lord Because he's like the god of mischief, but he really cares about like the downtrodden and innocent people dying No How interesting as opposed to when he was of just a straight bad guy that wasn't interesting But that's the funny thing you say is straight bad guys like there were there was pieces of him, right? Like it is a little They can guys you clearly weren't paying attention. He's confirmed to be a bisexual guy Is that do you come? Oh, that's the that's the interesting part. Yeah, but anyway, like so this is probably the least As a bisexual person, I can't confirm it is not possible to be evil. That's pretty cool Oh, no, you guys missed out on my thought damn Oh That's okay. You can just conjure more to replace it All right, but they wouldn't be the same thought would they that's all right. Maybe they'll be even better I just want to push them to the second one So the funny thing about this is I don't think it was like I don't even think that's much of a juxtaposition to be the boss of zon and to be pacifistic is like, well He's also not a pacifist. That's true. Uh, he's more he has gauntlets He will pacifist across your face. I will exactly. Yeah, even though I'm really good pun rags Thank you. That was actually pretty good. I like that pacifist So I think that it's important to highlight the fact that he's a peacekeeper not a pacifist He wants people to not fight but he will fuck you up if he has to Yeah, we'll like he threatens the guys in his and at the the one drop or not the one drop the last drop For not honoring the deal. It's like honor the deal or I'll fucking punch you in the face Which is very pacifistic I would say that's the exact quote I remember my thought it was a great thought I'm just I just want to with the um Our brawler character is actually like a teenage girl and she's like small. It's like, okay, so Are we are we supposed to take the implication from that that if vi was just like some like 25 year old like six foot five dude that she wouldn't be an interesting character anymore Yeah, that's not what interesting is If they were a straight white man, yes, they would not be if you wanted to be defined His talk of interesting seems to be limited to concept alone Like Yeah, which is strange. This is this is like if you can even call this concept. It's yeah, like that's what I mean low Hook at best. This is you know, oh Well, so this this video has a very good like to dislike ratio because when you said that my immediate thought was damn Damn, I'm trying to stop saying my immediate thought. I'm sorry. I'm trying. I really am slow thoughts from My first thought there we go That's a little bit different. My first thought was I've actually I definitely seen conversations about characters be this shallow I've definitely seen this Because you you know if you see it. Oh go ahead. Sorry Oh, it just it just reminds me of like when I've watched videos of the giving advice on writing characters Sometimes it will be this simple and it will be responded to positively But if but we're missing so much nuance Well, you know, we're missing the core It's the kind of thing where everybody agrees with this video is doesn't actually they just haven't really Tooled through it because yes Yeah, it's it's something that seems like Agreeable at first like yeah, that is an interesting juxtaposition And I remember from that like writing class or something that like I got told that that was good Yeah, like that's but you know, it's it's with a lot of things when you slow it down And allow each point to sit And you start to think about any way that you could like counter that point You know, it starts to become more apparent that we're not really we're not really talking about anything here, you know I think yeah, this is the the force awakens of video essays and there are a lot of force awakens of video You watch it and you're like, haha. Yes, that was good I was about to say I was about to force awakens is actually a really great example because it's a film that Well, like for instance when you're watching it, you may not think wait this this this planet absorbed the full mass of a star How is that even possible at all? Or like wait, you're telling why it's so low like this Yeah, but you're not given enough time to think that's like how jj abrams makes Stories is like they move so fast that you're not given any time to really think about how stupid what is happening is Um, but then if you rewatch it again knowing where everything's going it probably becomes more apparent like the problems I guess it just feels the same here. These are things that might seem at first really agreeable Like oh, this is a point But then once you slow it down and start thinking about examples to the contrary. It doesn't really hold up anymore I guess what I'm saying Ten minutes. It's like, yeah, I did work on everybody. Well, I'll say it works on everybody It works on everybody Wow, this video is working on clearly a a lot of people because it's got a really good like to dislike ratio I guess is what I mean. I'm not surprised that this that a video like this would get responded too well I think this video is just like to dislike ratio matches what the like to dislike ratio The force awakens would probably have been on people coming out of the cinema Probably, yeah If you were in this call right now, he said He's he's given us a pretty obvious definition of interesting Which is just like there's a juxtaposition in their characterization at the premise and so I'd be like Oh like marcus. We've got this like almost spineless But very arrogant character whose mentor is one of the most like principled And uh, peace keepy types in all the pilt over that's quite an interesting juxtaposition, isn't it and he'd be like No No, wait No more so than that Like the just juxtaposition is even more interesting with that than that with him I think because he's like He's he's he is spineless, but he's really motivated to try and do the right thing. He just doesn't have the guts to do it Like there's there's a lot of juxtaposition to him And so All the goal would be for me if you was in school just to point out that his definition is going to be unsatisfying to himself Which I think is true I Really find it hard to believe that he's only ever used the term interesting or uninteresting regarding the premise of a character and that's it Isn't a really good dad our hardest working character. It's physically deteriorating before so It's interesting because he works hard and he's almost dead God imagine someone someone no one is interesting and with that He works hard and he's almost dead You've told me so little is that even a juxtaposition like the character works really hard is almost dead. It's like No, there's no juxtaposition here. I feel like they're not related really. They're just two things Couldn't you have put almost dead on the end of any of these drama for the other? Yeah Yeah, what if he's just a coal miner? He's dying because he's got black lung It's like that's characters are almost dead anytime Which is like he's a he's a slum boss, but he's almost dead. That's interesting. Oh, okay He's a you're a slum brawler, but you're almost dead Sorry, it's almost dead. Just Almost dead It's like you can just slap it on anything else and it makes it more interesting Also, yeah, so we'll just point out I guess this describes a walter white Yeah, yeah, there you go. Well, that was why he was interesting. That was why he was interesting Yeah, poor eyes our smartest characters are really ignorant and dumb. Yeah, you're just wrong like Yeah, that's Well, so it would be the same thing as ignorance of uh zorn and then I guess jace's general like lack of knowledge on a lot of topics But that's not even fair Everyone's like being from the under city. Is that the scene that he's playing right now on the bridge where he's like I'm from the under city. Well, so this no, this is a very bad example So this was jace reacting to um A bunch of people who have been killed like what does this have to do with him? His ignorance like what you're saying he's ignorant of death or something. I don't even know what I think he's just using that clip because it's like the least It's It's like it's like the least appealing shot of jace and he because he's puking off a bridge I like haha. Look how dummy is puking. He's ignorant of horror I guess, um, it might be worth noting. We keep saying ignorant. He said dumb Like I I thought that's what he said He said ignorant Waiting before I Are really ignorant and dumb. Yeah, okay. So he also called them dumb And dumb. Yeah, by the way dumb Dummy going to jason heimerdinger that ain't happening. No, just throw that one out the window. It's fine Ignorant is the one that maybe has some ignorant legs, but doesn't really everyone's ignorant of something Yeah, every thank you. You literally took the words from my mouth and I'm salty. They're mine They're mine. Give them to me Fucking give them Point this out rags actually said that initially. So, you know, he's already said that he's he's he's definitely so I reclaimed my words. I saw my words in your mouth. I saw him in there I was I saw him. I was like, nope Rags sitting there in that chair where there's a little bag of words and jay ran ran in and tried to yank them out Oh, it's a big bag. It's a big No, it's my these are my words You're trying to wrongfully. It's my little bags, but it's like a clown bag where it just keeps everything comes out. Oh It's like an act of holding The best best best faith interpretation is that he was ignorant of the damage that could come from zon And this scene is him realizing it. Is that the angle? But again at the same time that I don't think that's a fair that's not the kind of ignorance We usually give example of when talking about Interpretation the best faith interpretation would be that he is ignorant of other stuff And that this is just a random clip that was chosen for like other aesthetic reasons. Okay Like I think the best thing I think yeah, the best thing to say that jays is ignorant of is like the scene where he says About like people from the under city directly to victims from the under city I think I could say that's an ignorant moment. But like, yeah, all characters are ignorant of something Well, I don't even like the whole you know, smart characters are ignorant on certain topics It's like that could be something that you start with for criticism You might be like Why is it that this person is this intelligent according to the the you know the content and yet they're unaware of blah, blah, blah, blah You know, like it could be relevant. I was just trying to think of an example But like um, you know, like how Boba Fett is considered ruthless and intelligent But he has like no idea how tattooing works but wants to be the crime load of it He's like a big juxtaposition on his own But like for bad reasons, you know, someone could be like, no, that's interesting. I'd be like, is it? I don't know And what is interesting even me at this point So what if you know, what if your interesting character was like he's he's a hyperintelligent scientist, but he fucking Regularly shoots himself in the foot for the fun of it. That's interesting I mean Character don't cut a line But uh, so yeah, he's defined it seems to be defining interest is is just from Baseline traits that seem contradictory. That's that's that's all we got But not even sometimes the dead one is just making me laugh every time I think about it It's like smart character also almost dead These are all unexpected things that draws deeper into the character and makes want to know more Make us want to see how they react to different situations Marcus when he's introduced he's all right We're gonna have to he's going fast. Let's do that again You are you are not speaking clear enough to warrant that kind of Verbal velocity. All right. Let's chillax. Okay um Yeah, because there's a lot there's technically like three things you can respond to with what he just said there like his addition to interesting If you if you listen to this this is like his qualifier for those things Unexpected things that draws deeper into the character and makes one unexpected things that draw deeper into the character So what's wrong with expected things that draw deeper into the character? If anything a good character would react in a way that you would You would expect based on the traits we've been presented and what we've come to understand about how they behave Example I have a perfect example from from theo back in episode four Where he commented on the nature of the two inventions from jace and victor Two elements or two things that we would expect because they're just inventions But the way they look are indicative of a deeper part of of their characters Is that not interesting because we expect that? That we we expect that they've made things Again, he seems to just be talking in concept rather than like anything deeper than that So I don't know what you're supposed to really do with all of this Because in ideas are really cheap Yeah, he's just rushing by and talking in really high concept like wishy washy terms like Ideas are really cheap. I don't know that any of this is very helpful to anyone But again, we're 57 seconds in Hopefully this uh, hopefully this isn't a stuck with strategy. It doesn't work for long. Just ask mooby bob I'm going to slow him down and mooby bob has actually got a successful career that's been going for ages. Yeah Hard to scare. That's a fact. Is that what it was? Is that what it was? Okay, my bad Like mooby bob, mooby bob, mooby bob licks three grand a month on patreon and he's been doing that for a very long time Are you serious? Yeah, just just ask mooby bob. I think he'd tell you he's doing very well and knows what he's doing Okay, he had evidence to that man can marinate his chicken in mountain dew. He's got he's living a high life. That's true He did say that He did he did do that. He's posted. Yeah, we showed them before. Yeah Oh, that's funny We're gonna he's so successful. We're gonna need to uh, we're gonna need to get an episode of cribs with him I'm sure that'll be interesting. Oh hell, yeah Mountain dew chicken movie bob google images don't fail me now It's a cover for google images. Does it actually Oh, there we go. And there's the tweet too Oh for fuck's sake I guess I didn't know you didn't know about this jay. Oh, welcome. Welcome g Welcome marinated three days. This was a joke, right? Like he thought that this was funny. He's done this several times Why he's done it several times He's really committed to the bit It couldn't be like pepsi or coke or That does not look appealing at all like how do you how do you make that food and go all I'm gonna post a picture of this So everyone can see what a bad job I did Chicken died for this The chicken looking down at it from heaven like that was not worth it. What the fuck man Oh Yeah, bob is uh By the lad I don't think he is sounds like the kind of meal you'd make on accident, but you just stick through it You're like, oh, I spilled all of my mountain dew Inside of the pan that had the chicken. Well I feel like there's a better meme here Like what if he had people over while he was cooking it and he really wanted to do mountain dew But you knew it was socially unacceptable So he just got a big old bottle of mountain dew started to get ah, damn He's holding the ball over the chicken Like he went through with a mountain dew marination, but he didn't tell them He tried to act like it was ah, yes. This is a Corinthian spice blend um From that's that's that my grandmother said back in Yeah, that's uh I call it the flaming Homer Ah No, the flaming Bob. It's the flaming Bob. That's what it is flaming Bob Just as a part two for you to that like he you know, they're basically forced to eat of that pox They're all really hugger stuff and he starts he just like digs right in. He's like, oh my god This is great. Isn't it one of the odds that this would be so good. This is such a great combination. They're just like Hmm Really, it's the most thing is most people when I see that they prepared a whole chicken I would assume that they would they were preparing it for some other people But with movie Bob. I'm not sure based on his comments about normal amounts of food He could have eaten that whole thing himself absolutely we have evidence that that's how he acts These are all unexpected things that draws deeper into the characters and makes want to know more Make us want to see how they react to different situations makes us want to know more and makes us want to see how they react to different situations Which is not possible with uninteresting characters. I guess Exactly. Hey, you want to see how this character reacts to being kicked in the face? Yeah, oh They say, oh But nuanced We talk about character writing instead of like Interesting character hooks that aren't even like that unique and the combination the conversation is Focused too much on like the viewer at this point and it was like what they want to see more of where they want to see Is like well That's down to them like that. Yeah, fuck the viewer. Honestly, fuck the viewer Because if we define everything that way it's just gonna get really confusing because It's it's so baffling because I watch this show with people who are like can't wait to see where marcus ends up next Can't wait to see how he deals with blah blah blah. Oh, I like marcus. Like i'm sorry You can't have that perspective because he's not interesting Sorry, yeah, yeah, it's all about the viewer and all the viewers that we are aware of Have really enjoyed marcus seeing his late journey as wise isn't compelling just yet, but We're only a minute in which I feel like is the equivalent of four minutes in another person's video with how fast he's talking about that's fine Marcus when he's introduced, he's a corrupt cop. He's mean. He's prejudiced He's weak-willed. I've seen this character a hundred times. You give me the first He's not introduced as a corrupt cop in episode one though. Is he? Yeah, he's not he's not corrupt. He's just a bit angsty He's not really introduced he's introduced like a side guy next to uh What's Grayson Grayson took the yeah, she's got him under a wing seemingly because the fact that he is volatile I feel like if we are being as shallow as possible in terms of our Interpretation of this character. Yeah, I guess we have seen corrupt prejudice angry cops before But I feel like that misses a lot of the nuance 2022 a strong fucking brawler girl with shaved hair on one side. That's never seen that before That's not an archetype As I was I didn't even catch that. Did he say that this is something we've seen before Yes, we've seen all of this before. Let's be honest. Every idea's every idea's been done all of them. Yep His argument is gonna be that this idea is done a lot to which I would say Okay, there are still other ideas in there that that have been done a lot I don't like his one for Haimerdinger character Like was that if we if we steal man What he said about Haimerdinger is that he's book smart but like ignorant on other things which yeah I'm pretty sure that was been done to death. I feel like that may have been done before. Yeah I think that might be actually that's typical art for a book smart character is for them to learn That actually they're not street smart fucking like lisa simpson I don't I don't think we have seen this before is the thing though for me Because usually the corrupt and prejudiced cop would be in the position of like absolute power Rather than being underneath someone that doesn't line up with their viewpoints For in fact mocus is fairly unique and my god. Yeah, would honestly make several arguments for why he's pretty damn unique I wonder him if him being powerless might be relevant to the character in a Oh, yeah Hmm He's introduced this way Cop he's mean he's prejudiced He's weak will have seen this character a hundred times You give me the first item on his character checklist and I can predict the rest of you and what is No, you can't no you literally can't you already pointed out how you actually Well, I think what he's in order to steal me and I think he's just talking about the corrupt cop archetype that Has been seen before I feel like Miss the forest for the trees I think Also, I think you've put marcus in the corrupt cop filing cabinet before actually looking at the character There's there's lots of different types of the corrupt cop archetype because sometimes you have them as the straight villains Sometimes they have a turn to good because it's like some aspect of their life got screwed up You've got like the jaded cop who's like more reckless. It's like well, they corrupt It's like I guess they're using their power in means that aren't exactly right like corrupt cop archetype Has a lot of subcategories So you couldn't tell me anything about it I don't feel like every single one has because it comes down to who the character is and what their journey is or lack thereof Okay, because like this the way that he's doing this. So so frustrating. So just think you can do it with literally anything at all any character Like it's the first scene we have with vibe We're like, uh, the plucky young girl who's still kind of butch and you know No non-sense. You'll fuck with you. And if you if you try and fuck with her that sort of thing, huh? Okay Seen this before you were like what because we got echo on screen Uh echo the young revolutionary who's a bit of a hothead and there's also somewhat biased against the people up top for reasons that are unfair That's an I've seen that before I've seen that a million times before you tell him that he's a hothead leader Revolutionary then yeah, I can predict his entire Imagine watching this is someone who's like this grace and character man. She's so archetypal and you're like, what do you mean? Yeah, oh, she's been on the force for a while. She's seasoned. She's seen it all. She's she's reasonable She'll know what to do. Okay Oh, look, mr. Reasonable over here Um, and yeah, he would have had Marcus for what like 15 seconds And he's like, I've got your number mate. It's like chill out It feels bad face to me again because it feels like he's gone straight into the filing cabinet with all the other corrupt cops Without actually looking at the character and how he's presented even in his first few interactions So it might be too early to say this But we'll have to wait and see but I am getting the impression that This is uh that he views stories through a lot of the broad nebulous writing advice archetypes and terminology and things like that Rather than case by case and we hate that here I get that impression But I don't know that we've seen enough yet for me to say that for sure So I suppose we should just press on I think we've seen enough Wow, jay. No, no, I'll give him. I'll give him more. You've seen enough end the video It's done I was there to set this guy apart. What makes me interested in him give us a unique quirk and activity even just an aesthetic anything But no, we just get plain old Marcus an aesthetic He has a moustache He's an Aussie Come on, man He's in a position that's unusual for his broad archetype He's got more of a chip on his shoulder than his archetype usually might if we want to use wishy-washy terms What He's mind with regret Um, and there are different types of corrupt cop archetypes where the guy is so jaded that he has no regrets anymore And it's like why so how could yeah, I guess I you haven't told me anything about him yet. Um At least not meaningfully Not excited. Oh wait, we're gonna find out what nuance I was about to say. I'm not looking forward to his discussion on nuanced That's gonna be a It's gonna be a web of synonyms that he's he's nuanced. What does that mean? It means he's multifaceted What does multifaceted mean multi-dimensional? What does that mean? It means he has multiple approaches to many things Unnuance what is he like that? So to go back to our slum brawler He could have just had this character be good at punching things But no, this is a character who only knows how to solve any problem by punching and that makes a big strike That's wrong Episode two my friend That's an example No, also, no, this is not the clip to prove that When every approach she's had with powder up to this point has been peace calm encouragement This is her at a like lowest point and you're like see she only solves problems by punching them Yes, because because that was what vias concern was the problem that I'm solving This will solve it Dope powder we'll get him next time Because you want a visual that goes with your wrong idea about the Ah, couldn't she have at least showed the clip of her kick with savika in the face one more time Also, sorry. Is this not indicative of a lack of nuance? She is a brawler who only solves her problems by punching I guess wait a minute. We'll have to hear about for that one, but that does seem kind of sus Oh, she's probably he's probably gonna say like there's an arc to be had But the thing is I'm confused because she experiences a large portion of that arc in the second episode Yep So this is still pretty archetypical that like character only knows like brawler only knows how to solve problems by punching them Even like even the wrong interpretation is still pretty archetypical She's pretty small though. So that's really interesting. That's really interesting. Yeah, and she's a girl I don't like how many brawlers show you part of their hair off, you know most Yeah So what it doesn't know he's saying she should have punched jigs here. It's like, oh, okay Oh, yeah, that's no, that was the right one. Oh, man. I didn't know That's not what I want to hear about that image be on the screen after that line I like vi Enough that that annoys me a lot like being like your character summed up is a person who just punches everything to solve Your problems like Stop it Stop it But no, this is a character who only knows how to solve any problem by punching And that makes it a big strength and a big weakness. The punching thing is connected with their family relationships Which is connected to the you can't reference vander when he's the person who taught you you shouldn't punch everything Literally called him lowest point. Well, he called vander a pacifist So is he a pacifist or is he teaching vi to solve every problem with her fists You can't argue she learned to punch everything from him. He's an indirect pacifist He doesn't punch everyone but he tells everyone to punch for him You were not allowed to simultaneously argued both positions. You have to pick one Trying to steal i'm trying desperately to find a way to steal men this and then all they can come up with is one Maybe maybe he's saying that vander didn't used to be a pacifist and then taught viamint That's something you really want to clarify in your video if that's a scam Well, if so he should have shown the clip the episode one the bridge Um, yeah, that's probably the only point of reference that you have But even at that point you have to ref you cannot ignore the fact that he teaches her explicitly that you shouldn't be fucking punching everything Also, she takes the lesson that she absorbs it gestures to her bloodied fist and says this only causes more problems directly to her You know Uh Damn, let's just press on very well. You sure you want to has been pretty painful The culture that surrounds her and the political situation that this character contends with throughout her whole arc It's connected to her stubbornness. It parallels her romantic attractions. It's used to express unique things and unique Okay, i'm lost. What the fuck Attractions, yeah How did we get here to the culture that surrounds no wait i'm gonna go back even further I feel like we're gonna need to slow this guy down It's he's really trying to get away with a lot character who only knows how to solve any problem by punching And that makes it a big strength and a big weakness The punching thing is connected with her family relationships Which is connected to the culture that surrounds her and the political situation that this character contends with throughout her whole arc It's connected to her stubbornness it parallels her romantic attractions It's used to express unique power How does it parallel her romantic attraction that she finds the things? She just loves being used right now. Is he talking about the fact that she's like aggressive with katelyn? I think it might be more specific that she's attracted to katelyn specifically. I don't know though. That's the best thing But i mean katelyn doesn't solve all her problems with punching neither does van der pringy Neither does vye Neither does victor It's a good point. That's true. Maybe he will one day though Dying fist dying dying fist if i can't live no one can Um parallels her romantic relationships over relationship The the solving all problems with punching Parallels the romantic i really i'm i'm struggling this is really awkward because he's totally wrong that this is who vye is So it's like all of these examples that you're pulling. That's like, but i don't agree with your fundamental thesis It's hard to figure out what he even means because it's said so quickly and so broadly. Yeah, it's a wrongly Things and unique situations marcus. So i said no, sorry. We got a unique things in unique situations What does that mean? In that in that room that was the unique unique things Unique things you've told me I know you probably think you don't have much time to spend on this because you know, it's It's preliminary to marcus, but you you can make the time and we can go longer than 10 seconds Yeah, this is fundamental to the whole thing. So like Do it tell me everything i need to know to understand where the fuck you're coming from because i'm so lost right now Answer and the political situation that this character contends with throughout her whole arc is connected to her stubbornness It parallels her romantic attractions. It's used to express unique things in unique situations You know what? I don't even go as far as saying vye may have a level of stubbornness for sure but like she literally gives up the um Like she she goes she encourages and sorts out the the filter of a discussion in the council And she gives up jinx's name like these are not things she would do if she was strictly stubborn. I think You should have punched the council into believing her She's imagining that already she gives herself up an episode too. So it's like that is There's so much more to her than stubborn like come on yeah Or vye she's getting shafted She's often do you think he might be confusing just her being upset a lot with her stubbornness or maybe I don't even know um She's driven. Is that is that maybe the confusion or something you're right gets upset a lot. It could be Vye sucks racism in chat You suck get rid of it use express unique things in unique situations Marcus so i skipped over the one interesting thing we eventually do see about him. He's a single dad That's the one the one one interesting The one interesting thing about marcus is that he's a single dad This video is amazing I'm getting annoyed Just enjoying it as like he's a single dad in opposition to him himself being multiple dads He is both the father and the father I just what a bizarre thing that's just been said. I don't know like You know, there is one thing that's interesting about him. He's a single dad. Oh, okay Is it necessarily I don't know Is that any more interesting? What if he was not a single day? He was with a wife. What is that less interesting? Is it because oh and how you define this is it because there's less Conflict the less wives the more the less wives the more interesting. It's basically a mathematical equation There are two possibilities for this video right now One that he's just gonna leave that up in the air and not explain why that's interesting Or one where he's gonna now explain where him being a single dad is why that's more interesting than him being like married And both of those things feel so bizarre to me that I can't picture either It's what I mean, man Like even if someone said I prefer a single dad Character is a more interesting form of drama because you know, there's gonna be more struggle there It's gonna be harder. It's like not necessarily it depends on how you write them Mm-hmm the emphasis of the character Him being a single dad could be way less stressful than him being married to a woman that he doesn't love or something with it with a kid You know Variation within the single dad did his wife died? Did they split up? Like, you know, and how if she is still alive, what is the nature of their relationship? There's like more to be but none of that would be deriving just from the fact that he's a single dad That would be based on his relationships with other people Yeah, the the drama and the character could come from other parts of his life because it doesn't have to all be condensed What if his family knife is just super duper stable? Is that less interesting necessarily? Even right now I would say everything that makes marcus interesting has nothing to do with his having a family His having a family is just relevant to it so like Silco is um a single dad not in like the traditional sense, but like, you know Raising a child, but like I don't think that any of the interesting things about his parenting Style with jinx come from the fact that it's just him like if he had a wife who was there too or whatever, right? I think you'd still find everything interesting about his Everything that you can find interesting about his parenting style. I think would still be there I suppose up to the right at that point, right? Well, yeah, but like So let's say we've got let's say let's say fucking Silco and Savika are actually like an item and whatever and right Savika takes a fucking We're doing that little rewrite, but everything else is the same Then I feel like we've still got all the same interesting elements of silco. Nothing has changed about him That's that makes them less interesting. I don't necessarily well I think the point should be that you wouldn't have to change anything Not everything could still run as interestingly as it has Obviously if you did make that change you could make it so that the dynamic between silco and savika is different and maybe even savika feels some level of Motherhood over over jinx thus making um Their relationship more strange. You could do that. This is this is the problem with this whole video All the things he describes. I'm just sitting here like so these are all just concepts We haven't even gotten into what they are I think the only character that would make more interesting is savika who would have to like have her Or potentially make more interesting Who would have to have her like resentment of what jinx does on missions? um Would then be like I guess I'm looking for the word. I'm looking for the word. I can't find it That would be a conflict for her with her like perceived duty of like care to jinx that would be An element of her character to then explore We go to um that would be I think the most significant change. I think you see far fewer changes to silco That was that that was the main point Mentioning silco and someone in chat just said about vander. It's like yeah, we got we got a couple single dads in this Who uh, does that make them more interesting? They weren't mentioned in their little interesting character package I guess we'll have to hear him out True we'll see but being a single dad is not uh, the is not an antonym to being a corrupt cop You see He's a corrupt cop, but he's a single dad. You're like Name one that isn't a corrupt cop. Honestly, that that would fit in that the way you said that that kind of fits into the video that we've already seen And it would be really funny. I'd like to see it fine. That's interesting. That's unique. He has a daughter and she's as big unique He's the only one. He's the only fucking one We've got three single dads. Here's another idea. What if we had an unmarried father that would be like I don't think anyone's ever done that before. That's never happened. That's never happened. No one would do that. That's ridiculous I've seen a million times before the corrupt cop. I have not seen a million times before the widowed man That's not very How does this work? I guess it's unique if it's a disney movie and the father is not dead, but you know How do you write this and like think that's okay? It's surely like after a moment's thought you just go hold on a minute Yeah, that's pretty much what they show this. He's like, whoa a daughter. There's like no woman Whoa What what's happening? What do we Produce fire budding or does he and then he goes to the cmo markers throws down the money And you know one of the coins lands in the blood. He's like, yeah seen it corrupt cop seen it before Yeah, don't waste my time So odd. He's a single dad. Fine. That's interesting. That's unique. He has a daughter and she's his big weakness Now for the nuanced aspects. Why does he care so much about his daughter? Well That's just funny as a title of a subject. Why does he care about his daughter? You're like Like Feels like a line spoken by like an alien trying to understand humans Well, it's because he's a dad and that's what dads do that's where it ends. Just generic dad What? The man who is willing to do all the things that he does for the sake of his daughter I don't need a deeper meaning. You know what? I think that this is this is acceptable as an explanation Deeper meaning Well, because it's pretty generic to just care about your daughter That's about his daughter cliche It's a cliche That is pretty cliche How many macaroni drawings have you done only one? I don't know Unlike this whole there is no deeper meaning it's like so if we agree with him that it would be defined as a deeper meaning to know why he like To give an example. This is You know, she died and it wouldn't make sense with the picture, right? But if we just rewrite it so that she died in childbirth and so this represents their love Also, you know going for something like that. I don't I don't know that that somehow makes Marcus a better character Um, I don't know that we need and it like the idea that it's not enough that he simply loves a daughter that he has It's like that's not enough Such a bonkers way of looking at characters. How long is she even on screen for? Is it a grand total of like 20 seconds Yeah, not long But no, we need this is the I really do find this frustrating You might see the pictures of her more than her What the e-fab audience should have noticed about the way we do shit here Is when we have a character like Boba Fett on screen for a million years And we know fuck all about why he does anything he does or his values That's a big problem when you have someone who pops on for a split second Maybe to a degree like Boba Fett did in the ot Uh, we don't need to know all the deeper values. We just know he's a bounty hunter And he's doing a job for Vader and this is what his power level is like Because that's how much he showed up for turns out when you're like Vocal point focal point for characters is like You expect to learn more about people who fill up the entire screen the most. I don't know why we need to know What its motivation for caring about his daughter is When they represent so little screen time And uh, that fills a slot of understanding what's happening with him It that would be interesting you see Oh at that point I want to know what she cares about what are her values I was so ready to give credit to him for like actually defining how he's using a term and then we got this Because he didn't actually really define it in any way that is a tall defensible We get no more than that it's a really nuanced motivation do they have some kind of Unnuanced motivation You know if I'm just like I'm going to eat this because I'm hungry he's like that's very unnuanced It's a few more For like a hero to want to save people But is that a problem? Hey, I value human life and I want to protect it as best I can. It's like well, that's pretty unnuanced my dude Silco wants to care about all the people. It's pretty generic Yeah, you have sovereignty for the people who use it around. Wow, okay Why does he even want it? Like what? Yeah I feel like would we say see that before this whole stream, but that's fine Are you eating because you're hungry or eating because you're dying? Oh, that would be much more interesting. Yeah You want some motivation do they have some kind of special relationship to be see him love and care for her in unique ways? It's his kid Care and love for her in unique ways now. I'm curious what his examples would be like is he talking about how they bonded and very The show isn't about them. What are you doing? Are you press the lever on the death star was a bad character. He was just a generic lever pusher Yeah, did he want to push the lever a special relationship with the lever? See him a million times. She's like, oh, he's doing it because this is his job. Okay. Well, I've seen that He's like every other stormtrooper here cool Kind of special relationship to be see him love and care for her in unique ways No, we just get the tell my daughter dies Oh my god Did we forget the part where he was where soko was using her as leverage against him to be also His last words is important for his character and you know the meaning of his arc, I guess Yeah You also haven't identified why he's bad all you've done is tell me why you don't think he's like great You haven't actually you haven't identified any problems with him only a lack of I think we're supposed to think that's the problem I think I have identified that this man is a monitor to watch her of arcane. He had it on the other monitor and he was doing Yeah, oh no He heard a loud noise for the explosions and he turned his head is like, oh, he's dead. Okay I think as much as I I I can understand why you say that uh, Theo, I think fringy's already nailed it earlier on it's He's tangled up in writing rules the point where he's made himself Like convinced that mox is badly written for things that mox has done like there's nothing There's no problem that we've yet found. He believes these to be problems though How We're watching it in real time. I don't know Yeah I want to say I don't think he's a monitor to watch her of arcane. He has 19 videos on it Yeah, I think he's obsessed with arcane Um, those are the things I've seen stuff from him where I've been like these he has interesting takes on other stuff This is a major miss though. Um What are some of his takes that you like? Um Oh, he I saw a video where he talks about how silk goes I thing The uh, it's very quick. YouTube shortly basically says That um, it's it's a it's a form of trust He has as a connection with jinx and that that is used Against him when she's at a low point with trusting him And the it's a it's a great way for the show to translate to us the dynamic of their relationship and how it's Sort of also late into that point. I remember thinking to myself like that's that's that's an interesting idea I like that and that having her do it shows a big level of trust he has for her, um Which I think we talked about as well. I was like, yeah Yeah, that's fine. There's you know, there's other stuff, but this one's this one's not great this video. Not great Dies without finishing his sentence seen that before We've seen a billion. Is his daughter literally said seen a billion times. Oh god Stop no, we just get the tell my daughter dies seen that we've seen a billion times Is his daughter herself interesting maybe that changes up things a little no we get nothing Oh, I did the meme I just said like oh, we need to know her values She's not in the show for more than like 20 seconds like I said, this is the same This man right now he's like he's searching for the interesting part, right? And he's just clarifying though the daughter isn't the interesting part I I have no I have no problem with this as being a thing that he says to support his wrong argument But the argument is the problem because like this is the thing that I would say if I was like saying Oh, well, what's the interesting part of this supposed to be is his daughter? No, right that Is it her herself? No If the argument was constructed from faulty components It was worth pointing out and if you're saying it's an accurate component I'm just I'm saying the contextualization of the accurate component is my problem that yes She doesn't have development. It's like of course. She doesn't what do you mean? Why are you even pointing that out? It's like I guess I think we know what he means It's just wrong. There are several people Throughout well, there's many people throughout all of arcane that don't have development It's like if I pick a random person like I said Caitlin's mum everything can be said about her but like why isn't it being said about presumably it's not in another video but Like why wasn't Caitlin's mum giving a big arc? Why wasn't she more characterized in terms of her relationship with her Husband and your daughter and just like I don't know man because she's the stories We don't have infinite time not everybody gets all of the development. We get what we need to understand the story It's just expensive enough as it is Yeah, what does each episode of arcane cost to make? Uh, well, there were no official numbers, but like speculations said 10 million per episode That's money I can already imagine the show is expensive. It's beautiful. It's a youtube channel near you the problem of techno union man Well, you will admit there wasn't much nuance there He was certainly not nuanced Are you there and like ability every character in arcane has moments that are just cool badass impressive admirable funny Oh, no Admiral and funny admirable and funny. I'm getting annoyed. I don't like it. Oh, no, this is very bad So you've just made it so your definition of likeability requires one of those five traits And there are so many characters that do not fulfill those traits that are fucking There are many characters who don't have badass epic moments. There are many people who aren't funny There are many people who Like I don't these are man I feel like there's got to be more to it than that This feels like a not even writing one-on-one. This is before that it's like like ability is not It's like what is like ability class and then all the children go when someone's really cool No, and so it's really funny. No, it's all just Ultra lord Because this explains directly why he doesn't find Marcus likeable in any way like of course because Marcus He's like a representation of how human beings aren't always funny badass and Super principle do it. I can't believe he showed a visual of vi Jumping off the pole with a fucking atlas going let's come crushing it like yeah, mox never did that That's true. Fuck Marcus. That's what it means to be likeable. You ever done that? No, I guess I'm I'm not cool like this. Shut up Oh, I'm very disappointed to hear that that makes me sad We get nothing from her either and like ability every character in arcane has moments that are just cool badass impressive admirable funny Marcus has none of that. He's mean to everyone. He's weak and mean to everyone Everyone We just we just talked about a character who he's not mean to And also, I like how you have a scene of him like being being mean to silco like That's what the fucking guy puts a hand on his shoulder said dude, come on I like as well that some people in chatting and catching on it's just like he's mean Oh, no What a tragic character trait What the fuck are we doing? God can you guys think of a single character who's mean to anybody who's also liked icon impossible It's like name everybody in the show. How about that everyone's fucking mean to each other at some like why why Like those characters are all badass more than they all do badass things Like vice mean to someone what bite bite Kneeing them in the face where it's Marcus. He's just like you're bad and that's it At least the whole section of like he loves his daughter treats her really well, but we just don't know why anyway, he's mean to everyone Obviously, he's not gonna be mean to his daughter He would say that it's like so maybe don't use the word everyone That's probably because it you know what it tells you if a character is mean to everyone except one person That's that's that's interesting. That's why isn't he mean to his daughter? I'm not convinced. He shouldn't be You know who I was being silco silco is mean He's Belka was mean to everyone Why I don't like him Now, but he's not mean to jinx so you do like him. Oh no, Marcus has none of that He's mean to everyone. He's weak and he accomplishes nothing. So there's nothing to be impressed by or to admire I don't think he's saying he's weak really does it justice. So he is using like ability in terms of I don't want to use the it's not moral like admirability. Yeah admirability in some sort of sense Nothing to yeah, he pretty much is there's no There's nothing he achieves that you can admire. I think is what he just said as well Which he has no qualities that we would perceive as positives in the real world. Therefore. He is an unlikable character That's a crock of shit. Shut the fuck up Um, what about uh hiding and saving vai Yeah, I guess we forgot about that. Do we consider that something achieved or not? I would consider that something he achieved It's not a great achievement given what he does with it, but it's he did something And considering it still leads to something bad in the end. Yeah Yeah, I don't know there's a conversation to be had there. I guess I'm saying but I shouldn't even have mentioned that because the fact is a character who doesn't achieve anything quote-unquote is not That doesn't make them unlikable. That's this is a very strange metric I'd imagine a lot of people would find that really compelling I mean like Homer Simpson in a lot of episodes I mean that's my mission right now is to compare every arcane character to one simpson's character Like we already did the flaming Marcus is a lot of the um, a lot of the endearing stuff about Homer is that he doesn't succeed and achieve Yeah And like I said with undeveloped his arc just kind of goes nowhere Jesus all right fine We're done with his explanation of those traits already by the way real Man That's it Yeah, that's it. So this is not to say that people can't connect with this character They can and they do Marcus has fans but to quote Jeff winger for the same reason I can pick up this pencil tell you its name is steve and go like this. All right. We crossed the line Oh fuck off man. So he's just alive. He's just said Rags this is directed specifically at you. Okay. You only cared about Marcus because he had a name You know Nailed it and can I just want to make this clear. He's explicitly telling people They felt a thing because of this reason and nothing else like because I happen to love this clip now I love this clip. That's a great clip Because he's winger is right in this scene. I call the pencil steve. I break it makes you feel bad It's like yeah, yeah, because just uh personifying anything I guess, but that is not why we care about Marcus personifying a human I can't watch this and honestly believe this guy consumed the show like in good faith. He's made 90 videos on it I know So look at this one. This is the only evidence I have to go by And it's just like incredibly wrong and surface level It look I feel like somebody can watch it and just dramatically missed with this one video How do you miss this half while actually watching the show? I think it's because his his idea of character analysis and writing is really kind of Warped in a sense that it kind of needs to follow a flowchart almost. It's strange It's my it's almost un-nuanced if you will what I'll say is His pov has easily going to lead him to some really great observations. I imagine but it's completely fucked him on this one um This comes across as like having no fucking clue what you're talking about Which is weird because like I said, I've got that additional context. So I know that he can um But like this this is just he's just fallen down a fucking rabbit hole at this point He's no more meaningful than a pencil with a name Because like uh, he almost had it by the way this a little bit before where he's like There are people who are fans of Marcus and you know, I'm not saying that you can't connect with him It's like, ah sweet. We've acknowledged the fact that that's a possibility So really it contextualizes the beginning of the video is Specifically just his pov that that he says that he uses the winger clip But it's like, uh, did you only connect with him because he has a name So this is not to say that people can't connect with this character They can and they do Marcus has fans but to quote Jeff winger for the same reason I can pick up this pencil tell you what's name is steve like an insult like this And part of well, yeah, I mean So this is the funny thing I think most people would be like we on e-fab a way crueler and abrasive and blah blah while videos like this You know, they don't they don't hear anyone's feelings. They just express an opinion. It's like, I don't think you realize when you're being insulted Like you've just been pretty dramatically insulted. You haven't heard the main word but the main sentiment is there Oh, yeah, you guys just a little bit on the inside. The character is just overall underdeveloped He's the worst character in arcane's main cast from a writing perspective And like I said, I'm not making this video to dunk on arcane or on Marcus This is about showing you what great writers can tell. Yeah, how are you not? That's Oh, you're not that's what this is What he says the video is Just compared them to a pencil with a name. So I don't know dude. Completely wrong So what's that is the steve wasn't doing wadston badass. Yeah, it was steve the pencil What do you fucking use the atlas cordless and that seems fucking great All right, if steve had put on the atlas cordless, then he would have been a good character It seemed by the way that he summarized the section by saying he is just underdeveloped like that was the main issue Was steve the pencil was he a single dad? Because then he would have been interesting So are we done with the Marcus analysis? No, what would have made steve interesting as if he was a pencil But he was actually an eraser Oh, yeah, that would have been interesting As he was almost dead A corrupt eraser pitch. He's a pencil and he's almost dying Oh my god No, he's almost out of lead. He's almost out of lead. There's not much more pencil left He was around saying, you know, he's more he's more out of as much lead as I used to He's more eraser than pencil now Such a juxtaposition nice one You know what I'm actually super interested in that story. Oh, I don't know where this video is going now because this is well Passed what I saw while I was ranting. I think I already got like three seconds in I'm freaking streamed. I was just getting angry No, because I remember you saying I remember you referencing the door apart However far that was it got that far in It sounds like he's getting ready to move on and that's what's worrying But there's still like another 12 minutes of this. Well to be fair the title So he's established he's a bad character now. It's time to show us how a great show uses him Which is this is gonna get so cringy probably but hey Oh, no, we're about to get into a lot of themes here all underdeveloped He's the worst character in arcane's main cast from a writing perspective and like I said I'm not making this video to dunk on arcane or on marcus. This is about showing Yeah, you are absolutely dunking on marcus. I'm sorry. You are how could this not well It's not the point of the video. The point is to show how a great show uses a shitty character. I'm dunking on I that just I don't know that feels like Yes, you are you are you are dunking on marcus. You're saying that he's bad To dunk on arcane or on marcus This is about showing you what great writers can do even with really weak underdeveloped characters I find it the way that he says that is so bizarre. They wrote him Like yeah, it wasn't like they were handed a character who they they had to find a way to like he's almost treating Mark It's like he's a real person who exists, which is not is that not indicative of writing No, we're treating it more. We're treating it more like, you know, like let's say the writers of arcane were Handed season 2 of book of boba fat and it was their job to well Let's just turn him into something interesting electro in no way home It's like john waltz was handed electros like do something with him. It's like fuck's sake um How do I use this retarded character for those other things like yeah Um, we don't need to develop him because it's not his story What This is the funny thing. Um more was done for electro than I think anyone thought was It's definitively necessary and it could be better and everything I'm just saying like that is the scenario it feels like he's describing when he says that but They made him they made Marcus that It almost feels like he's saying it like they'd agree Like he says like oh, he did a great job with that horrible character you made and they'd just be like, what are you? What what? It's a very very strange way of putting it Because they do so much with this character They do more than most stories do with their main characters If you're a writer and you're watching this and you have that one character that's just not working This is gonna see and now we're getting confused because he's like they did more with him than a lot of main characters And you're like wait, so is this not in the category of how well written he is? It's like no, this is a different category. He like oh I just I have nothing to Like latch on to is where he's going with this so I just need to hear it Help you it's gonna give you lots of ideas of what to do Okay, I'm gonna introduce use number one and the way I'm gonna do this I'm gonna describe Marcus I'm gonna list things about him and I want you to think of the opposite of each item I list And see if you can find the pattern. I'm highlighting. Okay ready. So Marcus is a bully. He wants war. He hates the Once you gotta give me time Is he one war? No, he doesn't he's a bully. Well, he doesn't like the first Well in the first few episodes he he doesn't want war and he's so hell bent on finding somebody He wants to arrest someone for the explosion and piled over. I don't think he wants war Yeah, if you wanted war, he wouldn't want that at all I don't this is what I was gonna say. Maybe I was missing something, but I didn't get the sense. He wanted war That's not quite either. That's that's an incorrect read of the character. I would say Um hates the undercity. That's fine with me. Yeah, he's got he's got the bigotry at least in the first three episodes I think he mellows out a little bit as time goes on Yeah, I like you're phrasing he's dot the bigotry dot the bigotry and I'm highlighting. Okay ready So Marcus is a bully as well. Um, that's fine. I think that's like throwing his weight around Yeah, the bully he wants war. He hates the undercity. He's bigoted. We're not playing the game But we've got to think about the opposite of each thing Oh, uh, a bully a paragon a paladin. Yeah. Yeah. Once wool wants peace, I guess That one's pretty simple. Um, yeah What was he third one again? He's just shot getting these things out Loves the undercity that would be the opposite there. Oh, yeah, that's right. Are we are we just describing? Oh, hang on. Are we supposed to be describing a because I'm assuming this is going to try to lead us to another character And we're describing like who we should foil for or whatever. So who's like who loves the undercity who is, um, a paladin Vander again So far Fies into the piltover narrative Doesn't play an example to have a narrative. Yeah Vander Well, is there a piltover narrative about zorn? Is that Well, that would just be like the prejudiced view right of against the undercity So it feels like three and four are kind of similar. Yeah Guys as a piltover narrative about undercity people. He doesn't trust them. Well, he Doesn't trust undercity people three three things that are the same that he hates. Yeah, this is all this is all part of Yeah There's an irony there as well that like he trusts silcoed it fucks him over So, yeah, I guess it depends on where in the timeline we're talking This is a problem with a character that isn't strictly static as you've already said he is Uh, I don't know where you're judging him from exactly All of the clips we've seen have been from like act one Yes He does trust one of them But at a time when the undercity is a pretty trustworthy place, he chooses the one wrong person to What how does that So the opposite of this would be to trust the one right undercity person He doesn't trust anybody except when he does and it's the wrong one. He like what Well, fuck him man, it feels like he said that like it bolsters the point five, but I don't think it does I don't think we were shown that zorn was a trustworthy place in act one No It was explicitly not but van der was keeping it together and things were quiet Yeah, to be fair things were still pretty um, you know, like this was bitterness down there a lot of it Yeah This resentment, but nobody's willing to you know get out there with a fucking gun yet I guess i'm amused as well because like When we see him in episode four, he's constructed like this whole history with silco based on what seems to be trust Like the you know, and it's breached when uh when Jinx is countered to the firelight all that shit happens. That's not silco's plan silco doesn't want that to happen It seems to me that they do have a pretty long form trusting relationship with the leader of the undercity This seems to fuck with point five quite a bit actually To trust and lastly he locks up vie He has this one moment of humanist uncharacteristic of someone from his background that changes everything Uncharacteristic of someone from his background The opposite of locked up way to man What is the opposite of locked up vie? Caitlyn, is this Caitlyn? Are we saying that? Oh, no, yeah, it's going to be Caitlyn Also, that's pretty arbitrary like the opposite of locking up vie Because we have a problem because that's It it that doesn't really jive with some of the other characteristics though if he's going for Caitlyn Well, let's have a look uh, let's go back Caitlyn kind of does believe in the in the pills Yeah, yeah, Caitlyn absolutely Not right away Is Caitlyn the opposite of a bully? It's like I guess I don't know if I'd say the opposite of it feels kind of weird to say that She's a bit paragony. She can be pushy as well though. I guess this is just my general problem Yeah, that's the problem. It's like referring to a character is definitively one weird thing He wants war so does Caitlyn want peace? Yes, she does. That's that's chill I guess but I don't believe Marcus wanted war This is a weird comparison He hates the under so she loves the under city. No, he's making this person. Yeah, press X to down on that one Yeah, she doesn't trust the under city very much. In fact, so much so that she needed a guide Well, and she she has lots of prejudices about it part of Iraq is discovering that they were unfounded to some degree Um, so yeah, I don't think that's going to apply city. He's bigoted because he buys into the Pilton So she does that's the problem This doesn't This is a this is such a weird take on prejudice as well because you you grow up in these environments So you believe certain things. Oh, it could it could be there's not Caitlyn. No, yeah We just have to see where it could be. He's not going to another character. We don't know where he's going with this Caitlyn, I think when you so what the first is to say capturing by also releasing but I was like, oh, so is Caitlyn like Yeah, it may be What is the opposite of capturing by I take issue with that because he said like one moment of humanness Does he does he think everyone's from Piltover's like a horrible monster? I have I have well we'll listen to that one again now because there's another thing I wanted to say about under city people He doesn't trust them so Caitlyn explicitly doesn't trust by uh, when she meets her explicitly so Rip on that point, too Well, he does trust one of them But at a time when the under city is a pretty trust where they play is he chooses the one I hate that qualification. It's so stupid Oh, I guess Caitlyn would trust the one right person in the under city. That's why that's why these are so clunky because he's trying to flip them Even though if you remember Caitlyn trust echo as well, so rip One wrong person to trust and lastly he locks up vie He has this one moment of humanness uncharacteristic of someone from yes I I knew something I hated about that one moment of humanness like marcus is all One moment of humanity I think was be the word I don't think I don't think you can go up somebody like, you know, you you've got a lot of humanness about you I guess there was no humanness to when he was sad at the funeral for all of the dead in force I guess there was no humanness when he looked resentfully it is No, because that's not a word There was no humanness in that he cares about his daughter. No humanness when he looked at the Drawing his daughter made for him all of that she's so unrelatable because I've seen it before No humanity in him trying to muster up the will to do to jute Caitlyn It's important that our characters are humanness Have humanness the big sharing that's all that we think about what we say Humanness Humanity his background that changes everything reverse all these who am I describing? Oh Wait, so so the opposite of a bully is full of love. Oh, you don't think those two things are And also, yeah We fell face first onto the floor with our comparisons straight away like a bully otherwise opposite I'm just enjoying that the opposite of looking someone up is going to be used as an actual point in this But he did the opposite. She did the opposite of looking her up. She let her out It's symbolic jay is symbolic of the foil that's part of the point Um And you and to be she pulls a gun on this guy when she first sees him by the way Yeah, and she really holds it on him for a while. She doesn't he's already talking She doesn't hesitate in terms of like, oh shit. I didn't mean to she's like no I'm keeping this gun on you because I don't trust you You know from kate famous for trusting everyone in the undercity, which I'm guessing is gonna be one of his points I really hope it is a lot of love who wants peace A lot of characters. This is the problem. A lot of characters want peace very few want war So I don't know once again. Yeah, that's vander Who loves the undercity No, she she does not she does the undercity in this very fucking scene that he's bringing up The first thing she asks jay is were you scared? What does that fucking tell you about her view of the undercity? She loves it Man, this is three for three The narrative. Yes, she does three for three. We're out. Who doesn't buy. Yes. She definitely that's part of the problem to Fivy to her Yeah, she does annoyed that katelyn knows so little about her zone So wrong again. Fine doesn't put over a narrative about undercity people who trust them and no No And we get a picture of her aim in the rifle one more time, please No, that's so wrong Ripperoo and five of five can we get can we get at least one at the time when the undercity is a pretty untrustworthy place She trusts the one right person that's all times So she she trust She trusts everybody also trust the one right one She trusts the one right person. You can't say point five and six kind of fuck with each other, don't they? Man, we are we are just falling off a cliff here. Oh Daisy You might say the cringe dimensions It makes the decision in the moment of humanist uncharacteristic. I'm sorry. Can you get one right, which will be releasing vie? He's gotten the word humanity. He has forgotten the word humanity. He said human Yeah, he said humanists again. Oh no. Oh no To free vie which changes everything. Yeah, there it is You freed vie while marcus imprisoned her you guys are foils That was like the one right thing of this and it was the one we thought was great It's very funny. It's a very funny thing to try and make us a point You did the opposite of that just someone Well, you really force fed this one. Wow All right, that was awful. What's next? Marcus is the anti- No Character arcs have anything to do with each other Yeah, except obviously is his role as her superior. There's very little that connects them I'm trying to think of a scene where they meet I don't think we see them Yeah, we see the meat on the bridge Yeah, no, I'm sorry. I thought you meant when they first meet like narrative Yeah, I'm sure I think of like important scenes between them is like my episode four and this one On the well, sorry episode four in the bridge one. I think that's the two times they see each other, right? Yeah, pretty much. Um Yeah, but he forces her on to graveyard duty and Yeah, and if you remember when he pulls the gun on her, she is fucking baffled She has no clue what the fuck's happening because she's got no Real understanding of what the hell's going on on his end and he neither for her like he has no idea what her story is they're very, um Very much not in each other's lives Which isn't necessary to become opposites, right in terms of like narratively, but I just The arguments were horrible just now like for understanding how they're opposites What the subject matter of what their character arcs and the themes of their arcs are dealing with have very little to do with each other Caitlyn, I guess mirrors Marcus a bit But that would be Caitlyn in uh act two onwards mirroring Marcus in act one But even then not really at all because the subject matter is still different Positioning of the characters is different. Yeah, so I I don't know. They both wear blue uniforms. There you go You did it. Well, maybe Not a difference you fool Do you fuck that? No, it's a similarity So she's a foil to Marcus because red is the opposite of blue It's a it's a difference of similarities, right? Think about this, right Marcus has a moustache Violet has the opposite of a moustache. No moustache. Oh, that's true. The opposite of something is not itself So, yeah, that's true. I actually know the the opposite of a moustache would be like some kind of anti moustache It's not just I just want to make it clear we're being very silly What I want to clarify this because this is something that people get wrong a lot, right The opposite of something is the antithesis of it, which is not just not having that thing Well, any anything that isn't that thing is the opposite of zero is zero is not the opposite of one minus one is just That's something to remember And the opposite of zero is zero because zero is is nothing and therefore Would you say it's the opposite of itself would you now I had this conversation with Mola last night Would you say that the opposite of love is hate and not indifference? Yes Would you yes Do you think that the opposite of an intentional emotional response is another intense emotional response or the lack of it? Yes Why the um, the um, yeah, because um opposite describes something of equal but opposite. Oh fuck equal Equal value in the other direction Hold on something of a different value The opposite is situated on the other or further side when seen from a specified or implicit viewpoint Well, so that's what I said to you was that I think it matters on how you're judging how you're creating your scale because I could put zero is indifference and then on one side is love on the other side is hate and that's Arbitrary in a sense you'd be like, well, why'd you decide that I'm like, well, that's just the one I'm working with And I do think that's the most commonly understood one I it seems to be that people typically use that way Yeah, I guess we'll generally Um, the definitions are two things they arrive at just someone's opinion of how a word that should be used That is not more important than anyone else's or they are a description of how the word is commonly used and that one's an objective fact but Yeah Definitions are funky But the point is marcus is the anti katelyn I even though we didn't get there at all We really had to force this there's a lot of I do like if you reverse engineer this video, right? There's going to be a grand point built on many Like major points built on many some points and we're just like we style all the some points None of them work. It's just like, oh god. Where are we going? Right point and it's the only right piece of evidence in this video so far that the opposite of locking someone up is letting them out I guess Yeah seems to be it feels to me like this comparison was born from Him seeing that they're both enforcers and going. Oh, that one's good and that one's bad That's crazy And then one of them loves war and one of them hates it and you're like, what do you mean? What are you talking about? Think about it Use number one of week underdeveloped characters Oh use one of week underdeveloped characters as a foil for better character. Oh, I hate this. I hate it Surely foils are put to play off each other. They have two units together I hear the foil Is already What I would define as like important to their character in terms not necessarily because that's almost a meta argument But what I mean is like if they're a foil that means they must have traits that reflect another character that you can talk about They aren't cool. Mahler. Oh, I didn't punch somebody in the face. How cool are they? That's actually I'm really glad he said that in a sense because there's so much more to character Whether or not they're fucking cool or awesome or funny No, they're not. Shut up. For instance, I am cool and awesome and funny, but I am a character for other reasons as well Yeah Whatever those might be so weird that everyone's silent. They're like they Because everyone's afraid to disagree with me That's part of my character is my intimidation. I'm like silco We'll see but that's why you're a bad character because you only work as a foil rags And that's just not good. You've got you've got other traits, but besides being smart and funny rags Like your giant cock. There you go. I am cock. I am That's what's the opposite of having a giant cock. That's that's your foil a tiny tiny tiny You have a tiny You can accept only the tiniest of penises I have a feeling the section is going to be hyper cringe because he's going to start labeling all the ways the marcus is like Good in the narrative while having us agree that that means he's a bad character overall You know, every one of these examples he's going to bring up a probably going to be things we may even agree with And then we'll be like, so he's a good character and you'd be like and see he's a bad character Yeah, it's going to be a really weird experience See that Like I said already this one for me would be in my my repertoire for describing how he's a good character But apparently it's evidence that he's not I don't understand how this works in terms of how do you arrive at this view of a character When you say like because this is writing advice, right? This seems to be where he's going with this. But yeah, this is how you can use your week underdeveloped characters It's like what if I can pause you Say it was writing advice. Well, so if I could pause you both just for a sec Thunder's just let us know in chat. He has a chapter in this video. We've not reached it yet called fixing marcus This is definitely I can He's gonna make him so upset I'm gonna be it's okay. It's okay. Are you upset? He's not okay I'm gonna be so unhappy Correct Is a foil to a better more devolved more likable character and I hate the fact that he's just said it's true that marcus is less likable than katelyn Would I know I like more than katelyn? I like I like him more than katelyn. I I find him more compelling than katelyn. Uh, I can Am I the only person here who likes katelyn more than marcus? Probably maybe I don't know You're only saying that because but i'm not interested meyer I haven't noticed I don't see the world through that lens rags. Well the joke was they're both asian Oh, yeah, I noticed for either of them. I just I don't see color I am um You're colorblind. I am the opposite of racist. I'm the opposite of racist. I'm not racist Who's fringy? I don't know who I like more. Um I think uh, I think that marcus is more complex than katelyn though. Yeah I like I said that my easy answer is just that I I think I would have liked to have explored If I could get more screen time of one of them It's probably gonna be marcus because I'm almost like what would he decide to do in all the stressful environments Um, yeah, we know exactly like katelyn would do it pretty much every turn, which isn't a problem Uh, I I just it's totally fine I'm not like a part an earlier part of this video was the point that that's not a problem Yep Marcus is a very necessary foil because we're only surprised by this scene because we've seen these scenes No, no, you could literally have said we're only surprised by that because she pulled a fucking gun on him seconds ago You don't have to reference this. I'm sorry But we have the point now where it's like, you know, you you kind of should be hugging those in the The other city and not treating them with some level of distrust. It's like That's like a bigotry or something. It's like you do go the beat Vice entry into this city. She gets like mugged Immediately like why are you saying this like it's some weird perspective to have that katelyn because he's not showing that clip Which is starting to annoy me now because it's like katelyn did not treat that man with love the second She met him and nor should she necessarily it's a fucking creepy dude right next to you. You have no idea what's going on This is a dangerous place No, you should hug him That's nice Maybe it's like maybe don't pull your gun out right away, but also maybe don't be like, hey, do you want to come to my house? Zorn is run by fucking crime lords and gangs dude come on It's a nice little human moment when she hugs him because of the fact that he's helped to potentially save a life and Like doesn't need to be Ah, we like it because of the contrast with the scenes of marcus being cruel to the undercity people Like that never even crossed my mind It also comes to me as sort of an expression of Man, I've forgotten about you people from katelyn. Yeah Like an expression of appreciation for people like especially way down at the bottom there, you know In the place that was specifically referenced as you know the place that the piltover people don't like to think about Hmm It makes katelyn's love and trust mean so much to us is marcus's hate and distra No, you don't need marcus. I don't need to see I don't need to see the opposite of something to know What the thing itself is in act two marcus has nothing to do with like and everything marcus is doing has nothing to do with His opinions on zornite I don't think even really expresses He mellowed out because I can't even remember him like repeating lines of how much his own people are horrible and gross and disgusting And horrible doesn't give a shit. He doesn't talk about it at all I'd say he's moved on now because his worries are about balancing the corruptness of his like position So it can be valuable to have like To set something like if we say if we got like a load of enforcer characters and they were all like fucking Yeah, fucking fuck zorn and they like pull out a gun their first Fucking instinct like katelyn does Like, you know, all of the all of the enforcers are like that, right? We get loads of them and they're characterized And then we get to katelyn and she does exactly the same thing No, but we pretend that she does a different thing katelyn, you know, of course that's gonna Right away so say something to the audience and it's gonna almost be immediate characterization for her in that She's not gone the same way as everyone else. So I wonder what's different about her And you can achieve something like that by setting up a status quo and then Then moving away from it, but I also putting it but I don't think that marcus on his own does that I think it'll just be an argument based on all the other enforcers seen arcane quite a few times This is the first I've ever been exposed to the idea that I've appreciated katelyn's actions through having seen marcus' approach first that's just I treated them as different people and to be fair I never looked at the enforcers as like All the same people all the same. Yeah I mean, that's that's literally the that's like It's what causes the problems in the show and he's doing it unironically. Yeah, he's like katelyn is given value about all this time She's different to my yeah, I I don't agree It's what makes her relationship seem impossible to us It's what makes her love and curiosity about the understudies seem so uncharacteristic if this wasn't set up No, that's completely normal to be curious about the other city right next to yours I The idea that she's invested in sorting it out as a result of seeing what's going on there again comes across as a much more normal progression This is maybe why Katelyn wasn't scoring very high with the the audience is that Iraq is super uneasy to understand very very straightforward She's a good person doing good things and her mind has changed because she had a few misconceptions And she's that's why I like her because she's simple and easy to understand for my little dumb brain She's exposed to realities of the world that were deliberately kept from her Yeah, this is what I mean. I don't think there's there's a lack of interest or even nuance there I just uh, I don't know why we're treating this like it's only meaningful when you know what marcus's actions are It's like no, she stands on her own And shown through marcus. It would have just been told to us which as we all know is not ideal Sorry towing and I go a step further with this. Oh Would have just but what is the list now? what Yeah, I'm rolling back Seems so uncharacteristic if this wasn't set up and shown through marcus It would have just been so marcus could be gone and katelyn would still be as meaningful as she is in terms of her story Absolutely. I don't understand how you think that How is it actually possible to think? It would like okay if marcus is gone then it has to just be told to us That's not true at all because it isn't told to us with katelyn Like as in in a show don't tell sort of sense. This is one of them like when you don't Know about anybody else's povs when reviewing a thing you can just say stuff without realizing it all that Because like this constant framing of katelyn through marcus like is alien to me. I'm just like, what are you? What are you doing? Like, yeah, what are you doing? I have nothing to do with each other I just except obviously the the occupation side of things but yeah about it. It's so fucking superficial Seems so uncharacteristic if this wasn't set up and shown through marcus It would have just been told to us which as we all know is not ideal storytelling and I go Would have just been told to us. What does he mean by that? Yeah, that's what that's what I'm saying Like I think he means without marcus Like because he's referring to show don't tell or whatever Yeah, um, so if marcus wasn't there then katelyn's attitudes towards zorn would have just been told I guess through dialogue But that's not true because it's not told through dialogue as the show is right now and I'm assuming we don't need to have this conversation but show don't tell is I'm starting to become very much not a fan of that statement. I don't I don't like it I don't like it at all. It's one of those ones that's become understood by well, let's become NPCs have got a hold of it basically It's it's right on that you can repeat it substance Well, imagine someone said I hated silcoe's last lines because you're supposed to show that he loves jinx not have him Fucking essentially say it. You need to show that he thinks the virus perfect not have him say it You're like, okay A lot of the ways that you show things is by having characters tell other things. Yes That's why I I think At first it's like a whole arc is like I was like that's a great saying and then I was like, oh, that's the same It's pretty good. But like this part is missing and I'm all the way up to now like you should stop saying it It's like it's not helping Find a different saying Go a step further discourse and take all of the other things raises with it This is like what I talked about with the jinx silcoe video The you're perfect line in that whole decision from silcoe is because his love of jinx is wrapped up in this idea of jinx as embodying zon She is the embodying zon The interpretation I would have gone with is he sees himself in her not zon Yeah, he has immense investment in her because he was trying to Give her the support that he wanted from the people around him Because I don't think we've ever even that's not even a thought that we've actually addressed On I had never heard of me. I'd need to know exactly what he means by that I guess in terms of just, you know No, I can't I can't get anything out of it. It's I feel like oh, no We don't know what that one doing just the surface level as she is an inventor and she lives in the under city I don't even I honestly don't even want to speculate what his reasoning might be at this point I'm not to be scared of how she's so kind and trusting Jinx is so just just she's so zonish, you know Strength in the chaos the desperate beaten down low life forged in the fires of injustice and betrayal Into a monster stronger than anything rigidly polished topside his Feels like he's describing silco not zon Yeah Ever seen that's zon personified. That's jinx Yeah, I don't I'm glad we don't have to watch that video too. Holy shit. Yeah, Jesus christ. Marcus is piltover personified I disagree What is piltover personified and are you about to say something? I'm just he is just gonna say marcus is bigoted and he's gonna leave it at that Oh god This is not fun because of all the piltover characters representing a very Nuanced piltover that have many different perspectives about all of it How could you all right It's the whole point is that you can't just lump everybody from a place into one archetype or or one kind of person It sounds good, doesn't it? Sounds good He represents piltover and jinx represents zon Jesus christ, I don't want I would say he and heimerdinger make up the duo of piltover personified. Oh now it's heimerdinger too. Okay Heimerdinger I don't even how do you square that away? How why can't I say jason victor are piltover personified? I feel like you can make a mark if you're literally fucking anybody I could have said jason victor are piltover and zon like I could make the argument Come on. How are you doing this? That's why jace likes victor because victor represents piltover Yes Yes, that's why victor likes jace because zon big fan of piltover Mostly I would say he and heimerdinger make up the duo of piltover personified marcus is hardy. He's corrupt. He's hypocritical. He projects all Marcus is not haughty. I was gonna say Remind me the definition of 40s. It's not fitting with what I remember it to mean. I haven't actually checked it I think it means uh, it means proud. I think or better than you I on your horse. Yeah, arrogantly superior and disdainful So maybe in the first few maybe the first three But he's really not maintaining that as time goes on The impression I get from him over the the gap is that he's developed his corruption with silco To the point where his character for the next six is someone who's very like carefully trying to navigate this minefield He's no longer like i'm better than you zornites. That really doesn't come up Yeah, he doesn't care about that anymore It's funny because the more we talk about it the more i'm like maybe he isn't static actually He undergoes very significant changes from act one's act one to acts two and three Yeah, I guess just act two and episode seven Those go through a significant change Well holding that fucking bloodied coin is pretty much The show being like this changed him This this gave him thinkies He visits Grayson's grave. He gives eulogies for dead enforcers He's not Walking into the last drop renting about how they're all criminals and he's gonna get them all Yeah different guy All the actual vices are piled over onto the undercity. This being the most egregious example You people down here are all the same But see the markers you just showed in that other clip in this one. I just don't think they're the same person They're not Yeah, I don't think they're the same This markers has a very visible chip on his shoulder about like Zorn and what it's about and his position's death and all that And he hasn't undergone some serious ass loss yet to make him rethink himself Mistaking arrogance for bravery You think you're standing up for something But we all know that we're just gonna pause for the sake of good old confidism. Yeah gotta be careful You never know with these It's just like actually I'm the one standing up. There is a crime. Are you standing up? The pass is through this place Yeah, I think that was the idea with that line, yeah But most importantly, he's weak. I think that's his outstanding trait that determines how he feels That is not fair at all to marcus I I mean I would describe him as like, you know Himself being pretty emotionally weak in the sense that like It's probably one weird Cold and weak Yeah, using one word is, you know, a bit of an issue but like I wouldn't say that's an unfair characterization of him Not in terms of like he's a weak character in the sense like, you know I swear I've heard some people on the panel describe him as weak. I've called him spineous I've called him. Yeah, I've I've done it before so dare I try and explain my difference here is the if Without spine meaning he's committed to two positions at once almost instead of choosing one I don't know that that This is difficult to try and spread out like Spineless but not weak. It's like he's dealing with very very difficult situations um But at the same time he's not got a strong principle to adhere to He's got a couple of them that are all over the place He's not for example If he was like choose to shoot silco or his daughter, it's like that'll be easy for him but his daughter Being threatened as compared to the whole cities of people different or you know, uh, katelyn like daughter, okay, it's like that's You gotta shoot katelyn Otherwise your daughter might be it's like You know and the noisy mix just goes It's uh It's it's tough Tough to be specific, but like the problem is what I think is the connotations of weak Uh, it makes us Assume a lot of things that might not necessarily be true And I think that's just a matter of him not instead of using that way to maybe just resort to describing him He's had plenty of time, but uh We're at five minutes right now. I'm kind of surprised nice What's the opposite of five minutes? I guess it's any other amount of time that is at five minutes Yeah Math is hard, but most importantly, he's weak I think that's his outstanding trait that determines how he deals with every challenges the power throws at him He fails it It's a weird way to put it Handing Everything he tries he fails to find the criminals in act one. He fails to resvan Fails to find the criminals in act one. I mean That's not weakness. I mean you're searching an entire he does find them. Yeah He literally another problem with that argument. He's he fucking finds and chases them, but he can't keep up like Also, let's pretend for a second that didn't happen. It wouldn't matter. He's searching an entire city Like for a day or two. He's like he failed. He's like shut up If you're gonna The way he's arguing if you're gonna use any term weak isn't the one I think ineffective or impotent is what I would go with Which is in general how I would describe marcus and I think it's a bit more apt than weak because weak comes with baggage that you don't want Yeah, I agree with marcus didn't hesitate to shoot echo. He ain't spineless. So like I said that he's he's definitive on Certain aspects. I don't think he cared about echo at all Um But he cares about katelyn and what she represents. So it was harder for him to make that decision It's the a lot of stuff. He has trouble with This is the thing I would even consider revising spineless. I just uh, it's just it was an easier go to I don't know if I'd call the spineless a fucking breakdown video talking about his character I'd have to go through and figure out exactly how I would define it. But That's why I think it's hard to categorize because marcus is faced with like very difficult decisions Like we went over this in some of the previous streams where for a lot of marcus's time in the show Making the right choice and doing the right thing means his daughter dies and he dies as well potentially Which is easy for someone to criticize in leisure and safety, but Yeah, I I can't stand calling a person weak for acting like that because Yeah, this is the thing that I think we were trying to highlight several times I think rags you open to it on the stream. It's like he's actually more representative of the average person than pretty much anybody in this show I think a lot of people would have his responses to a lot of these situations. It's fucking hard. Yeah You may not have been in deep like off the bat But like people would be trying to make their best without doing what they know to be Overall the best thing that's going to cost them greatly They're going to try and make ends meet with what they have to work with Everything he tries he feels to find the criminals in act one. He feels to arrest vander He feels in his deal with sales to arrest vander. That wasn't his thing. He wasn't the Uh officer in charge of that. Why I mean it wasn't necessarily failure. It was Didn't want vander also Yeah, you wanted well, they were expecting to get vye. Um, yeah I don't know. It's so weird to categorize these as failures as opposed to like events I mean It's like it's him not getting what he wants because his desired outcome of this obviously did not entail Silgo showing up decadent killing everyone Yeah, like I would argue that the failure here if we're gonna do that is is grace and died This is like majorly the problem of this because if If vander's stolen by silco I think he would just be confused Like you just kind of have to fuck with me. But having those enforcers die Along with benzo I suppose. Uh, that was the like the huge like what the fuck was this There's deaths and he didn't get the proverbial pan pound of flesh. He still needed Like there is no arrest still because of this Soco, which by the way, he doesn't even seek out it just falls into his lap later He fails to blow up soco. He fails to shoot kaolin fails to fail to blow up Silco that's an interesting Fails to blow up silco fails to just to kill himself Like you don't decide not to decide not to kill himself. That's it. That's the key He keeps referring to these as failures as opposed to like marcus's thinking about a thing and then makes a decision um He the choice not to pull that pin like I don't know why we've called that a You know if he pulled it he could have said he failed to stay alive i'm just like i'm just I'm just like imagining right a situation where he's friends with marcus and marcus comes out of like that meeting With silco and says, you know, there was a moment in there where like I considered pulling the pin on the grenade I was holding and then he just turns and said why are you failed? Failure you fucking failure you fail You can see what the guys are doing here, right? He's he's talking about all of the things that marcus has not accomplished and you know What not all of the things he's been ineffective at but you don't have to Like he's going for the repetition of failure But in doing so he's having to twist events to you know fit the I guess script When you could have just rewritten this to more accurately account for events while still making the same point Yeah, and again just so like he could have shown the shot on echo and been like he failed to allow echo to live Or something should be like, okay. This is weird. This is just a weird He decided not to pull that pin. I don't think we should call that a failure of killing silco and himself Yeah, this guy failed to not make a video because you can You can twist that into something that has something to do with the wider going like thing marcus is dealing with being You know impotence and the inability to do what he Believes is right and what he thinks is necessary and all that. You know what he can't be the hero he wants to be I'm not I'm actually surprised he didn't reference echo and say he failed to kill him because of the fucking the you know the bullet The bulletproof vest thing whatever it was. I just I could totally see him adding to that being like see he wanted to kill echo and he failed to do so He does nothing when greason is killed he does nothing when he does nothing when great. Did you see the giant hulk monster? Yeah, what is it? What did you want him to do? What would katelyn have done? He does what I would have done I would have been like thank god. I'm not dead. Holy shit. I think he's surprised to be alive I think he's terrified. He's pretty powerless in that situation. I got to tell you Silco threatens his daughter the only thing he's except Wait, did he say he does nothing when silco threatens his daughter? Yeah, he did nothing when the mob boss threatened his daughter Like He does nothing when greason is killed. He does nothing when silco threatens his daughter Okay, so what he does is he frames the fire lights because this is a message from silco that your daughter's about to die If you don't follow through with a plan that we set up That is an action He is taking to try and save his daughter's life because obviously If what are you expecting that he's like kills them all in this room It's like as if there wouldn't be any contingencies to worry about what silco would set up, you know I don't like this like this is this is part of we're veering very far away now from being able to understand Marcus we're practically treating him as though like yeah, I would have done stuff in all these scenarios like would you Would you on wick dot old guys? It's really easy for you to say that right now, but man. Oh, if you were there, I don't think you'd have done a damn thing Nope The only thing he successfully accomplishes is saving vai and forgetting how uncharacteristic that is it doesn't It's not uncharacteristic. Why is it uncharacteristic? This is the video about Marcus. Tell me why that's uncharacteristic of him Yeah, I think it says I don't think has anything to do with Marcus from this guy's perspective It's just because he's an enforcer and that's just not the thing that they do According to him Because they're all the same I don't know. I guess Caitlyn She's the one that would be allowed to do this Maybe I guess those nameless enforcers that sprinted into the burning building to you know Yeah, I was uncharacteristic of enforcers as well I I would love to know what his thing is for this but we're not getting anything apparently Or even just the fucking enforcers right at the start someone just blew up a building Let's try and catch the people who are running away now. I don't know I actually liked how well informed this moment was specifically because it pulls vai away from powder I wanted it to be well justified when I thought about it. It's like Marcus's head. He just got Grayson killed He's trying to prevent someone else from dying. That's his goal here Tell me why that's uncharacteristic of him It doesn't even really go as planned. She ends up basically being a liability for him if anything I think Marcus epitomizes passive evil. I suppose a character like circle passive evil How does that passive evil? So should we just list all the actions Marcus takes that has drastic effects on the plot or Passive evil, maybe the passivity doesn't have to do with actions themselves But the way that the evilness is it's more on the evilness not the actions Evil in that he does not prevent the bad thing He doesn't actively seek out to stop the bad things going on in the world and allows them to take place around him. I don't know Well, I would just go as far as saying he makes an actively evil choice when he makes a deal with silco Yep Like that that's fucked and then to use that corruption to allow all kinds of like Passing and selling of the worst drug known to fucking man Like that's also pretty evil An all for money and for a rise in his career. It's like these are all pretty active evil choices as far as I'm concerned Cool, who's active evil combine that with heimerdinger ivory tower evil apathetic evil ivory tower evil I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Are these actual writing terms because I've not heard of them ivory tower evil I haven't heard of them But that gives me a fairly clear picture he's going on about in that you know evil that is ignorant of the rock Like yeah in the sense of ignorant of all of the wrongdoing going on around I think heimerdinger is just ignorant of like how bad it is in He just doesn't know I would argue heimerdinger morally is possibly top tier like of all the characters This is a guy who clearly cares about like life intrinsically. He's simply unaware of a lot of things yeah Which is like the point was made in the beginning of the video one of the The one of the words put next to him was ignorant Well, is that what ivory tower evil mean? I guess I'm doing a reveal now That's what I'm saying Like it's such a weird way to define if he was like ivory tower evil just means that evil comes from you as a result of your ignorance I just like so what humans I guess Yeah, how perfect do I have to be and how all everything I need to be That's built over well intentioned wants to be a hero, but so weak or so ignorant It's useless worse than useless it's self-destructive now What's the point of doing something like this in a single character showing themes at different levels of scale? I don't see why these are points for why he's well characterized. I just don't understand this Big picture and small picture is what makes a story feel rich. It's what makes a setting feel surely Yeah, surely what he's describing here is a good character like I don't No, it's He failed to establish I'm left like spinning in the void. I don't know what's happened I'm still not convinced by any of his arguments that he's a bad character like like even if they're all true, right? Even if we accept everything he said is true It's like he's just described a character like he personally doesn't vibe with that's it You're rich you have an overall plot line that explores a theme Then maybe you have a character relationship that explores that same theme differently because it's on the smaller scale And then maybe you have a single character who embodies that So these are actually if if you want to talk about like how the the ring addiction all that stuff And then Boromir is like in the form of a person what it is like Yeah, these would be things I would reference for why Boromir is well written Not why Boromir is well used This whole well used versus well written thing is very strange to me I don't know how you even draw that juxtaposition Like how can a character's like well fulfill their role in a story while not being a good character Like I said, I wonder if he thinks Palpatine is a bad character. I don't know Because the only judge I have is for a character is you know the role they play in the story I don't know what other standard I can really justifiably hold them to I guess how well characterized they are and how well you understand them with my main Main character my main standard for a good character How consistent they are according to their own traits and how well characterized they are and I think you could probably still have a I think you totally could have a poorly characterized completely like Yeah, completely just shallow character who represents What like enforces You know who represents enforces in a way that like we're supposed to believe is what most of them are like That could be done enforcer, but you wouldn't call them bad, right? Well, no, you could totally call them like A a caricature who exists to let you know like this is people's perception of enforcers, right? It's like he's like let's say he's called like Dylan. Okay, that's his name He's a massive like enforce enforcer caricature in all of the ways that this guy is describing And he basically just exists in this story to let people so that um like people can People from Zorn can look at him and be like, yeah, that's that's an enforcer right there And everyone can act like he's really normal and that's what they're used to he himself might be like A character that we would all describe as bad and shallow and maybe even inconsistent But um, he felt he fulfills that role in the story He's a he's a plot device who works for the function that he's there to fulfill But I don't think that's a good way of accomplishing that and I would question how he's This person being used well for the story at that point if they're inconsistent Sure. Yeah, that's a good point Dylan the massive Theme like Dylan could exist, but I don't think Dylan's are the way of going about constructing an understanding of societal perceptions I love how we might have accidentally just coined a character archetype as a Dylan Well, yeah, because uh, if if that Dylan did exist we I could see us saying like, yeah I guess he's a good representation of how the Zornites see enforcers But he's so cartoonish and he doesn't seem to represent any of the other enforcers So it seems like pretty lucky that they all happen to use that one as they're like EOV of the enforcers or something like they would there would probably be a load of elements that we think doesn't mesh With the overall Meanwhile when you get something like Marcus I can understand why the zornites would have a particular opinion of enforcers while also giving him a lot of nuance New ones that apparently isn't there Action or decision that's used to of oh, okay Used to of weak underdeveloped characters embody an element of theme or setting No, how can you embody these things without being a please? Feels like you end up being a developed character if you embody I'm getting really tired of having to say this themes come from the writing. They are meta-textual They come from the stuff that has been put on the page or put on the screen They can't they don't just appear out of nowhere when they do that's usually bad when something Unless we communicate it to you and it isn't properly represented in the work So something can't be considered to be representative of the theme while being poorly written in terms of that theme Yeah, if a theme is poorly written then that means essentially it doesn't exist. It's the last Jedi thing You can't say that Well, yeah Contradictory it does it's there. It's uh, it's said, you know, oh, yeah, I guess so. Yeah He said one character says it but the the other things are what we see is different If you remove that line from Yoda Um, it's gonna be much more difficult to do. Well, I guess you might have not have difficulty discovering because you can see what they were trying to do But if you go strictly like a robot from what happens, you can't Dig out the theme they wanted you to in many ways. Um, the existence of the last Jedi itself Contradicts its own theme because it fails to communicate its own theme Which according to it would be the greatest teacher and then they made the last Jedi Not the last Jedi then they made fucking rise the skywalker. I fucked my joke and did it Maybe not. I failed therefore. I will learn it's failure to Uh, I guess give that message off is is what was helpful in understanding how to do it Uh In a sense, maybe you could say that Yeah, yeah, yeah The last Jedi is so meta that it failed on purpose to teach us all a lesson about failure Nice one, right? What a genius he was the whole time If only we'd listened Only with less. Well, I mean that's basically what a parody is isn't it at that point We're describing something that feels feels on purpose to teach us about failure. That would be a parody Like that channel, um Is it bad writing advice like that? Oh, I really like terrible I don't like that channel because the really great thing that that guy does is Find a way to use something that is broadly considered to be like a bad trope And then try and pull something out of it of like, well, you could do this. Well, this is an option Think about a way that you can turn it on. It's how to play with people's expectations. Yeah, terrible writing advice Very good channel. He's like if you're actually stuck on a inspiration for a story I would recommend watching some of his videos because um You you might end up going. Oh, yeah, that trope is like often used really poorly But what if I did this with it like I've found myself in that situation a lot Yeah, I've had ideas to bring from exactly there I think the video that is sort of emblematic of the value of that channel is is actually not one of the just standard terrible writing advice ones But where he talks about I can't remember if it was a specific trope or in general But the idea that whatever has been identified as a trope. There's an opportunity there Just think about it And I think the the example used was the precocious pickpocket the guy who walks through the market um fish out of water and then Some kid bumps into him is like, oh, sorry. And then he checks his wallet and it's gone That the inversions would be he actually notices that his wallet has been stolen because he knows a lot more than these people assume Or uh, the person steals the wallet reveals that he stole the wallet as an attempt to try and get a job from this person You know all of the options that you have to because like a trope is not because you know Real life's a little bit more complicated than just Black, you know, this is how it must be and we saw that in this video, you know, oh corrupt cob I mean, we've seen that a million times before it's like I mean if we're gonna be as vague as possible. Yeah That's why I don't like a lot of these things because they talk in terms of concept act like a lot of the variables that go into making A particular trope on you know Mutable which simultaneously explains why he has this perspective because he's looking at it Without looking at the variables A functional fixness Like we got this lame angry You know overbearing bigoted cop guy who's corrupted You know like oh, yeah, but let's let's make him interesting. Let's fix him What if like he commits to some real bad corruption and then he like Takes a double like he really thinks it all it's something that's really shocking to him But then he doubles down on it It's just that that's constantly in the back of his mind and uh You know, he's a character that you expect maybe will come through in the end have some big win Right, that's like almost archetype two like what if he doesn't what if his story is cut short before he can make that decision Because he spent so much of his life Uh trying to straddle this line or something you're just sitting there trying to think of all these ideas And he's just sitting there like you're still on archetype one. Sorry rub cop Oh, I thought we'd moved on it's not talking about writing this way I will I I now. Yeah, definitely believe this this whole video is just mired in um, the The writing rules that some people just accept as being like like It just yeah, it's it's it's compromise something except those are rules without knowing why they're rules Or even if they should be rules in the first place not questioning them A lot of I've said a million times a lot of the writing rules can be useful in terms of guiding you but you need like a fundamental that you're working from otherwise you end up in a situation like this where You have a bunch of rules that are not actually linking together Or it almost feels like you're viewing the story through these rules rather than trying to separate those rules out and take each Component bit by bit and not trying to frame them through some like metrics that you've been told throughout your life Of like well a good character is when they have these traits or a good character is one that goes on an arc Or a good, you know, or uh, well Like people have automatically agreed that like passive characters that are static are bad. It's like who said that which is just Well, the first question is why tell me why? Um, I don't know what you could appeal to that would be like a thing that then people don't like People don't like that's something people don't like And then they come with like a couple of examples of characters people don't like who have those traits And just sitting there like I could do this with any trait Yeah, exactly. This is Yeah, so uh flimsy, um Unfortunate Developed characters a bad character can still be used to explore a theme or two in which is so even here like used to of weak underdeveloped characters So If they're underdeveloped they are not weak right because you put these two words. Yeah, wait a minute You mean weak because of the trait of the character Yeah, does he mean weak written or weak is a character trait as a person Yeah, it seems because originally he was using weak as a character trait But now I can't tell whether or not he's using it weak is in writing or character trait now because weak as a As a writing thing could mean like he's hollow or he's just done I don't know. I don't actually know. I don't I don't know where I think when he lumps the two together, that's what it comes off as Yeah, take the word weak out here because you've just got done with a section talking about weakness in a completely different sense And I was just thinking by the way, you know like the whole um That there's a bit of advice they typically give of like don't break the rules Before like you can only break the rules once you understand them or something like that Yeah, I'd be like you should probably just understand the rules in general for anything Just make sure you know why a rule exists, uh Yeah Because you know like your protagonist being at an active engagement in the story It's like you don't have to do that. It's a good rule of thumb though It's it makes it feel more engaging for a lot of people a lot of the time That's my rule book for writing would be so lame because I would just have non-committal words everywhere It's like you gotta you gotta kind of do this sometimes sometimes Oh, I mean yes, I think we could all just have like I'm sure that for all of us the idea of a story Where you've just got like some guy and his thoughts it's like major world events happening like outside his window That could be really interesting to read. Well, the example everyone goes to is Big Lebowski It's like one of the most popular passive protagonist movies ever He's um, he's just a guy who's like I think the first time we see him He's just like in the supermarket in his like dressing down and slippers buying milk And is the most normal person I say normal. I don't know. I'm not saying that that's what everyone gets up to But uh mundane. Yeah, mundane. That's that's a better word And you know, all of the plot happens to him as a result of his name getting mixed up with someone else's He's just a normal run of the mill mundane person. Yeah Um, I recommend that movie by the way. It's fucking funny I always hear that big Lebowski's super cool. It's uh It's just a I I fucking love that it exists because of the facts What are the other examples we have for passive protagonist is more than that? I know that uh, they're a dev well I mean, how do we how do we I always feel like video games are an interesting reference because what do we say about somebody like Master chief who doesn't really have a perspective But is he's very active in the story and that he does a lot of perspectives or iron sights But yeah, but nothing like he doesn't really have a tool of someone else at that point, right? Well, The reason why I like it as an example is because that was the that's the point, right? Is he doesn't really have any perspective? Um, but that's okay because other characters around him have a perspective However, you as the player are active in the story because you're the person who does all of the important things that he does But like, you know, like he doesn't change because of it Um, he's incredibly static But does that make him bad? Yes, I don't see how you could say that it's bad All you could say is that it's not I don't even think you could say that that's not good, you know, like I I don't know that it's that um It's fine Um, it serves the purpose that it needs to and then you have other characters who are more dynamic like the arbiter um You know, what do we do with like link? He doesn't have like he's a blank slate Completely, but that's what we're gonna say Are we gonna say that um blank slate characters are good characters or they just like serve a different purpose in the story? I I I don't know how I could say that they're bad Um, unless I was showing something that is contradictory to what they believe in like Yeah, but I I guess, you know Surely bad means that something is dysfunctional rather than it's all functioning, but at a very base level Well, can we say that they're not good either then they simply are well, I never said that they were good I just said they're not bad Well, yeah, I was going to say even if we describe how awesome passive Protagonist can be it's still that trait alone is just neutral. It's like they're passive Let's share the room being sat on that's a group. That's uh, that is just that's it's serving its purpose I think all I'd say is that You can have a character for whom change is Unnecessary and you put it in there because you think that's what you're supposed to do and the change is unnatural and forced Yep, and doesn't align with what happens in the story You have made that character worse In an attempt to make them better because you thought the better meant change rather than everyone tells you to do it Everybody tells you that your character has to change and they're wrong. They're just wrong Like it's probably it's probably better if your character changes generally No, it is not necessarily It's just it's just something that lots of people Generally going to help you out to have your character go on and on It's just a lot of it's just one thing that a lot of people find engaging to see as a character Is it going to be like that for sure? It's it's nothing more than that It's just something that a lot of people like and they find rewarding and yet The entire structure of sitcoms for the longest time was nothing changes and that's what you like Everything goes back to normal at the end and you're happy and that was a format that appeals to people And it still does because like that's what network that's what a lot of shows on network television If we're not thinking about like the you know, hbo Like amc like those types of shows You know ncis those characters are incredibly static They barely change But that's what and and people like those shows a lot law and order the characters don't often change If you take something like batwoman the show will claim there's arcs going all the time But like you'll never feel it. It'll always just be told to you You know we as a team didn't used to trust each other, but from now on we will after this hardship We've been through or something like that. You're like what? And and that would be yeah I I think that law and order a show with characters who are static and don't change is more valuable than batwoman A show that tries to make its characters change, but they just the changes of their refuse really stupid They're really stupid. Like they look at this something just comes out of nowhere That causes a radical change in the way that a person behaves Look at Alice like trying to recontextualize it all the time to be a good person while making a kill everybody all the time Constantly trying to Yeah, like find a way to keep her changing and being reinvented and you know There's a conversation to be had about the fact that change in people Doesn't happen quickly a lot of the time like change is something that happens gradually um, you know barring like some massive earth shattering like events in your life that uh that prompts change um The the pace at which people change should And and like why that would happen Probably ought to influence your decision on whether or not a character in the story that you're telling should change and how radically um And yeah, when you think about change in a character you try and think about how it relates to theme or specifically the plot and What kind of circumstances the plot would bring out in someone simply throwing a change in there Without considering all of the other aspects at play it's probably going to yield really bad results um It's why you need to think about each decision that you're making for your story In terms of changes or what role they have How much time you're going to allocate to one character as opposed to another you know, um Poe in in tlj we would argue from a character pov He made the right decisions with all the information he had yet He concludes he did not by the end and that's his arc and if someone said we'll see but that matches the theme It may be contradictory for his character. I'd be like no, no It doesn't match the theme Because of the fact that he's learned from not making a mistake when the theme is to learn from making mistakes Yeah, exactly Is hitting I guess the most fundamental writing advice you can give which is to act with Intentionality in terms of what you're doing like be aware of what you're trying to do and structure around that Which is very tautologists, but like it's the closest fundamental writing advice you can give But you need to be aware of what you're actually going for and how the rules or like principles of writing play with that Because it may be exactly the point that your protagonist isn't active All righty What's use three? I wonder betting they can be personification of something else external to them that's important and compelling even if They're not compelling as a character. Okay. Third thing I want to talk about is his death also very weird very sudden It seems like he might be developing he has that moment with a grenade and then bridge scene death So marcus's death peril is death then right So he's saying it's weird and It looked he just said like it looked like he was going to develop and then he doesn't Just committing to that action not a aspect of Why why does he need to develop there? It's so strange to like if you don't blow yourself up your character doesn't develop Yeah, I think that's the implication had he blown himself up you'd have been talking about how marcus developed. Um I don't know. I just want what is the rest of this point going to be earlier scenes One is Grayson's death the open-eyed lifeless stare this unfortunately I think is meant to be the resolution of his arc to some degree his whole career is plagued by this foolish relationship He got caught in years ago to a costume the one person he admired and then he couldn't escape the same fate in the end Meaningless death by one of so close sponsors. I think that's the main takeaway We're supposed to have here, which isn't very interesting in my opinion. No He don't think that this scene is interesting. Have me for a moment. Have me for a moment And then you said it wasn't interesting I was what do you think is interesting? I was hoping for a double down to be like and then consider But then to be like it's good, but you know he said it's not interesting This is the thing about like how I never want to do this in my videos If I like highlighted everything they're doing with ray at the beginning of force awakens, for example Where it's like, you know, they and they show her look at the food After establishing how little food she has and then looking at bb8 But also having an affinity for droids and respecting the fact that they're actually individuals All that's done in looks, but if I had said like, yeah, they do all of that. That's not interesting though You wonder like what what value is there for the viewer at that point because you've told them what the thing is That's happening there and why it can be meaningful But to tell them on top of that just I personally don't find it meaningful. It's like, okay Yeah But instead the problem with this video is that I think he's going further than that Because uh, he implied earlier the only reason you'd be interested in marcus is because he has a name Thanks, bro Yeah Not what I want to focus on here's what I want to focus on so marcus is a single father And he seems like a fine father he provides for little marcus He guides her to be a better marcus than he ever was hopefully more developed to and yeah the relationship Shut up. How do you know that? I'm sorry. How do you know he does either of those things? I didn't even hear The word zero clamming together. I didn't even know like I'm surprised you guys He's talking too fast and he doesn't speak clearly Marcos of her Like I'm genuine. I don't want to slow him down. Please don't make me the single father And he seems like a fine father. He provides for little marcus He guides her to be a better marcus than he ever was hopefully guides her to be a better marcus than he ever was I don't ever think he ever actually tried to do that. I don't think we really see My thing that we don't see And also she may well just be too young for that stage of her life to be you know, really thinking about He seems to be hiding everything from her. Yeah, listen kid Don't make deals with crime lords in the under city because they could come back to bite you if you're ever in a position I know that was what you were gonna do, but I gotta tell you Don't do it. Trust me. It ain't worth it. It's ain't worth it See more developed He has just pitch and hold himself into writing rules because he sees like Corrupt person or like jaded person with single like single father with a daughter and he just goes ah Then the focus of this character will be on the daughter and the relationship with them So why because that's the only way to rationalize why the fuck he would be focusing on this Yeah, the relationship not well explored not very nuanced, but he is a parent now listen to this Such a bizarre sentence. It's not very well explored, but he is a parent. You're like, uh Apparently he is a parent Okay He was trying he was trying to also ask so why does he care? So it's like what now he doesn't have to ask that question anymore because he's a parent this Gonna have to wibbly wobbly posey-walsy because uh, you know how it works with these sorts of things How did arcane start fucking glorious prologue man That's the thing with arcane season two I'm gonna be excited even just to see the opening see because it's gonna set the stage You're gonna wonder what it's all gonna mean by the time you get to the end of the arc Because like I believe that's what kind of story they want to tell I like those ones Wait, did someone slow it down Was it me? I didn't touch nothing. I didn't touch nothing. Was it me? Thanks, Matt. Oh Yeah, is that him unless that was the video maker Slow Oh god, I don't know. Like I said, I don't want to risk it at all. So I'm just Yeah, yeah, just yeah Same bridge same song same meaningless war that resulted in nothing positive just more dead parents and more orphans Is that the focus? Yeah, this seems like we're sidestepping to a different thing. I'm like I'm like thumbs up But don't bring it back to the parents So so that's that's why I because I was like, what does this got to do with Marcus like I Meaningless death, I guess Right in the, you know, yes, there is more orphaned children here, but And the connections he draws a very uh like It's a very strange way to take the scene and especially With respect to everything being said about Marcus. Stop focusing on the fucking daughter. God damn it Powder was the victim before now. She's the killer. Her arc has come full circle, but in a night marriage Her arc is not full circle She's still got a way to go. I'd say you know by the end of the season. She's still got a way to fall. I think it's a Fine observation Not her whole arc No, yeah, the observation is totally fine. I think it's a parallel. I just don't think it's this is not the end of Her arc And she seems to realize this it's why she's singing the song and she's fine with it Marcus's death is a crucial character moment, but for a different character No, it's pretty crucial for him. It's crucial for him. It's pretty important for him. I would imagine that he was pretty upset about that He had lots of thoughts and feelings about that scenario. Yeah I He didn't get to fill in this sucks because now he's just he's drawn What meaning you can gain from marcus's story as a whole and he's putting it into jinx instead Excuse me No, he has this whole thing going there and I don't know. Did he just miss it? I don't know because it felt like he was on track vaguely and then he leapt off the tracks again He's like, oh And that's use number three. You can use a bad character to enrich a good character's arc and I hate this fucking shit I hate it. I hate it. I hate if they're bad and they prop up another person What does what does that mean? Are they still bad or does that mean that they actually have a purpose? How does this work? Yeah, like what does it mean to be bad if you're incredibly useful to a narrative? If you're really useful and invaluable to a narrative and other characters I feel like that's got to be indicative of Like we remember just tend to paint other aspects of a story He believes that marcus satisfies all three of these uses. I don't know if there's gonna be more But like how are you telling me that he's doing all of these things narratively, but he's crap Like what the fuck and also that you're gonna apparently come along with fixes for it too. Oh god We're not even that but yeah What is that effect to be so useful I guess we'll find out it's gonna be like When we watched nando say that the joke is girlfriend Oh, dude, you'll you'll turn his daughter into a full-on character. He'll give her a whole episode I know I mentioned this before but it's really annoying me this The entire framing of these three things of like uses of a weak character People don't write weak characters intentionally Yes, this is useless advice like Characters is undeveloped and useless or whatever like analysis is aimed towards the creator, right? It is to help like it is aimed to the creator to understand Creation better to you know understand the creative process but So what the fuck am I supposed to do with this? I don't go into any particular writing exercise knowing that I've got a weak underdeveloped character Who needs like because if I know that then I'm gonna start like putting flesh on the bones so to speak I'm gonna try and flesh out the character. Yeah, make more of a thing. Yeah The location here is if this is an accident that it's like an accident that it all worked out and the That Marcus as opposed to exactly the point Well, here's an equivalent It's like you lost all the wheels in your car and instead of him helping you get the wheels back on He's like well your car can now be a table or a chair Yeah, make the make the best use you can out of that table. It doesn't I just want to fix the car at this point. Like why would I car manufacturer? But it's not something that it takes a resource to fix other than your time. That's the thing, right? It's like, you know, there are there are situations in the world where your car could like have the wheels fall off And there's no more wheels. No, no, no. Oh, yeah, but in this scenario, we have the wheels He's just like we don't need to fix this. This is the problem with this His advice isn't to fix a character is to use it and because I'm assuming this this assumes The you've got your a bad character on your hands. What do you do with them? Well, you can make use of them in a good way. It's like, no, you fix the fucking bad character. Yeah But the problem is a lot of what he's highlighting here evidence of it not being a bad character It's daddy's saying it's uses of it. It's so weird We're like over halfway into the video and all of these three uses are completely unintelligible to me like I mean that was no hyperbole. I absolutely don't understand We are if I said to you bad characters can enrich good characters. You're just sitting there like I don't know what to do with that. Why? What am I supposed to say to that? What if you what if in Wonder Woman 1984 they wrote All of the characters to be terrible on purpose just to make max lord look good by comparison And I'm like they fucking succeeded Yeah, good job as if it's something good for the bad character. What cuz but like a good character can enrich another good character They often do There's a character can prop up another good character They often do like the fact that he's bad has nothing to do with this and he's not bad. So like What? Things like you know, I had to this that the grenade scene is doing something similar One final act to make you the martyr you've gone pause right there Yeah What is Oh, sorry, there's no point to it now. Fuck. Okay, karen self as I don't think that's true It's a weird line and I don't think mark is really weird. No, so this is what line This is not long after. Um, he's been at the funeral for a martyred Grayson she died during a job like very well It was horrific horrible and he looks up to her I think he would love to have that fate To be a person that everyone respected and understood And did the right thing Of course, he's thinking about that fate right now But then he's probably also thinking about the fact that that means it's gonna he's gonna die It means that his daughter doesn't have a father This is why like looking at this seem to be like you failed. It's like motherfucker. There's a lot going on here. Okay Life Like you fail to block yourself up What good are you I feel like it's pretty explicit with the funeral scene That um the martyr thing applies to him. I think so. Yeah And I'm not surprised that silcoe is even aware of that. He probably Fucking had someone at the funeral. Who knows and i don't mark us as well He's in Grayson's shadow and he knows it. Yeah, he's not the person that Grayson was and he knows it That's a big part of who he is All there I don't know why he called it a weird line What does sokel mean by martyr you always saw yourself as I don't think that's true It's a weird line and I don't think marcus really sees himself that way The way you see this scene is he wants to be there. He wants to be there. Yeah He did watch he probably didn't watch the show here He's so adamant that it's the second screen He's so adamant There's no way we could be at the point of third screen guys. I don't know Third screen behind The worst the opinion the like lower screen number it gets That's been turned up vertically It was on his phone on the desk while he was playing Oh, no I think marcus really sees himself that way the way you see the scene is this mistake has played marcus in the city It's a hole for far too long and marcus wants to end it in any way he can That's the just thing to do. He knows he's a crooked cop who never has done any good for the city Sending both of them to help I don't know about that. No, I don't think he probably has done plenty of good Yeah, the impression I've gotten at this point is that it actually maintains a level of peace between the two cities At this point him being an arbiter of it to an extent. Yeah That's probably why he's still in it. He's it's interesting to think about he's kind of like the a negaverse version of Grayson because that was kind of her role But she was doing it in a very Paragon-ish way while he's doing it a more underhanded way like I keep the piece by Greasing the wheels and you know getting a bit of blood on the money that sort of shit Um, are you saying marcus is the anti grayson? Not even anti like I said, I don't know how I put it He's kind of fulfilling a similar role as he's an inverse The opposite of every other character I think seeing what happened he gained a little bit of perspective on what could happen when you know Tensions get much higher if he like, you know if war starts to be on the table. So he's like With that perspective, he's trying to fulfill Grayson's role and with silco as his vander like relatively speaking Of course silco is a completely different character and he doesn't have the strength that Grayson did So it's a very different dynamic. He's probably still got plenty of good done but It's not like he doesn't have the same leverage and the same ability to Say no to silco because silco has all the control As someone was mentioning Grayson had vander, he has silco. Yeah And the interesting dynamic there is vander was very invested in helping Grayson because he understood the value of it silco is interested in taking advantage of marcus wherever he can Um, though at the same time like I said when we were covering it I wouldn't be surprised if silco was given up henchmen here and there just to You know satisfy pilt overs Anger because he understands like the long team benefits of it sort of thing. Yeah Just thing to do. He knows he's a crooked cop who never has done any good for the city Yeah, I just disagree with that characterization as well Yeah, I don't agree with it If he didn't if he never did any good for the city, he wouldn't be able to keep his job That corrupt ranks that corrupt. Oh wow, sending both of them to hell is the right decision the just decision We leaped we leaped really far away it's kind of So if you ask me Is it the correct thing to do to pull the grenade in the pit in that scene for marcus? I'd be like, I don't know dude. We're looking at a lot of variables here. Okay. Like this is By the way, can we just have a look at that explosion? Both of them to hell is the right decision. So who knows how many people you kill by doing that Well Why did you say like that Down Man, all right So let's roll back. See what the overall point was. That lost me for a bit Sending both of them to hell is the right decision But in the end marcus thinks about his daughter. She needs him and he needs to be there. Wait, so was it the right decision? I Man, okay, that's also not the right decision. This man challenges my my everything Because of her he can't go through with it. He can't sacrifice his daughter to do what's best for his city sound familiar Yeah, that sounds like somebody goes to fucking hell I'm sorry. We're sacrificing your daughter is the just decision right this. We're not just talking about sacrificing himself We're talking about letting a young girl die Yeah, because theoretically speaking that could be the result of killing silco There's no reason not to think that and Or betraying him just in general But I'm I'm I guess I'm a little interested in the fact that he's like he's basically decided as a reviewer here That that was the strict moral decision You know to have done that because he's now comparing it With them I just want to make sure you understand this he's he's drawing up He's drawing a parallel which I actually think There's an interesting thing to comment on being the whole father daughter stuff going on But you know like silco's choice give up jinx a fucking horrifying murdering war criminal monster And you get peace sovereignty and access to the hex gates Basically the Like what is the downside as silco even says compare that to blow yourself up And who knows how many other people and leave your daughter fatherless But and send yourself to hell leave your daughter orphaned and we really uh And reveal to everybody more than likely like what the fuck's going on and you leave Zorn without a leader which jace correctly points out of this seed is like You do yeah, there's it's amazing to me that he hasn't thought about any of that And he considers these like all the level. It's like fucking hell The 100% current Is dead The moral choice is set in a straight to hell I guess it's moral to send people to hell now You can say you can take that position, but I'm gonna leave you behind on that one man No consideration for the idea that like there is a path to redemption Um for marcus that entails him being alive Like by the way that door is closed on you friend. He frames that decision Has that sort of thing, but he still goes to hell That's what we call not redemption then exactly like if if if marcus was told like this is a redeeming act It's like oh cool. So still hell though. Yeah, still hell. You're like, okay Oh, well, I don't want to go there. I don't want to go there Yeah, I guess I won't kill myself I don't want to go to hell just yet try and get as much time on earth as I can Since it seems like going to hell is inevitable. Even me blowing myself up isn't good enough God what a He really hates marcus And he needs to be there for her and because of her he can't go through with it He can't sacrifice his daughter to do what's best for his city sound familiar Get me jinx and I'll give you your nation of zone. I think he couldn't sacrifice himself I think I think that's high back Yeah, I don't think I don't know why we're ignoring it. Yeah, like people don't typically want to blow themselves up with a grenade Well, maybe I mean I'm sweating for the day I just really like the idea that we say that's this video. I say it's just like, uh, I hadn't considered that actually He might want to live. Okay. All right. Oh wait a second. Let's change just everything Is there anything so undoing? As a daughter this scene uses marcus as a foreshadowing prop showing silco using the very power that I No, no, I would no I would say that the more That is that we're getting a lot of information on like What marcus really wants to do that he wants to do he wants to be good and do good things He's really just not have the capacity to he's draining pieces out for marcus And then we're sitting here like trying to correct the pieces and be like no what you're supposed to have gained is this This is what it says about and then he's like also what I just drained out isn't for marcus. It's for silco You're like, no It stems from marcus. It is his it is his content. It is his material As a character if you want to draw a parallel about what choices you make and sacrifice for your daughter I think that's totally fine marcus silco and vander all like their daughters define a lot about what they make choices Well, but the way he's going about this so backwards. Yeah In the end and by the way, silco does want to be a martyr and I think that's why he accuses marcus of wanting to be a martyr Silco does want to be a martyr I never knew that I know I thought silco wants to be alive in the later. Yeah, he wants to be alive I don't think he wants to be a martyr. Yeah, considering that how he reacted to savika almost killing him He didn't seem too indifferent about that Exactly. Yeah I think I think I would be willing to say silco could probably be willing to be a martyr for If necessary, oh, so wait if we if we're saying if the offer were on the table because yeah, uh, He seems much more happy to give himself up to get zon sovereignty to jace But if we're saying if there were a button silco could push and it meant he dies but zon gets sovereignty and Shipping access and all that stuff. I think he'd be a little like fuck. I can't see it for myself But okay, I could see him doing that, but I don't think that's ever been his plan to die No, no, he wants to be in charge people tend not to plan to die if they can avoid it. Yeah Yeah, we mentioned this before with the yeah, where do I slot in the part where I die in this plan? Right, yeah, perfect. Is that a theme of our game? Because it's two characters Doesn't die in it. So it's like fuck The themes of not wanting to die But I'm I'm interested in this one. What are the references for silco's martyrdom? He's projecting and it shows us that silco sees the situation very differently in the marcus for marcus This little girl would be losing her day. Oh wait, are we done with that already? I think we're done That's why he accuses marcus of wanting to do martyr. He's projecting and it shows us that so close. Wow. That is it. Okay I think our only reference is his conversation with jace. I can't think of a single other one We don't actually because how do you said she was acting on my orders and he goes, okay, give yourself up Then he'd be like Uh, you know, you don't know what happens next in that conversation He could be like you don't want me organizing the deal you're making with me like you could easily have said that Mm-hmm He sees the situation very differently in the marcus for marcus This little girl would be losing her daddy But his sacrifice would make the world she grows up in a better place And that's why silco absolutely would pull a pin if the roles were reversed I don't know No, I don't know if I'm not alive Then I cannot continue to enact my plan as I want to do it And you know what silco would find a way to kill him without dying that would be silco's goal Yeah, silco would just come back with a fucking gun But it's also like you you understand it's not as simple as him just blowing up this room Standing in the boy's house like that doesn't this too like there's too many problems You haven't solved anything you you've wrong to some extent what? No, that would solve everything for me the blowing up the mob boss solves all of the socio-political issues of the undersea Just you know, all of those other gangs all the cameras problem is silco's fault. They're all just gone If we blow up silco, there's no more kem barons simple as this is the thing like the the the hyper hot take is like Does the will get better if silco dies like mmm I can't be sure of that one because of all of the resulting chaos is like And it's cool because jace points that out In a few episodes the roles are reversed sort of and it's an accent, but silco is fine with it What it's an accident, but he's fine with it Very fine with it. Okay. We have stretched what it means to be a martyr Typically doesn't want to die in that scene He's fine. I do. He's fine with it See his expression of just like He's fine imagine the chair turns over and he just kind of gives this shrug like Yeah That's all right That's his dialogue in this scene is to say this is fine This is fine. You know what if anything this is preferable, you know Look that's going to gadelb Yeah, can you imagine it's like instead of you're perfect. He says don't cry. This is fine. This is fine Uh, he says don't cry. I'm perfect I just there's a logic here. Okay, and it does make sense many characters who wish to be martyrs Are mostly fine with death even when it's an accident this that lines up, you know, there's there's an element there This is the only fucking reference. I think he has by the way He doesn't even got the jace one because that goes counter Probably to death because it's it's not even I just I'm amazed that He's clearly trying to execute vai so that he can remain the biggest influence in jinx's life And she as a quick reaction to the gun sound being chimed or whatever shoots him And like I think we talked about this in in in the third stream We're just like this resignation on his face of i'm dead. That's it. That's it And he uses his last breaths to tell jinx how much he's fucking thinks she's but he doesn't even come out He's like make sure you file that missile or make sure zon gets sovereignty. It's no you're perfect Well, that has nothing to do with it. It is all about jinx in that last few moments The idea is like quick jinx record me dying so I can get my dying message out and everyone can see me as a martyr Quick quick quick quick. Go ahead. What's up? It's boy here silco with a final video. Oh my god. Look at this bull in my heart rip a Right into the news. Let's just jump right into it. But first keeps Oh, no Yeah, really Really weird would have described this scene but infinitely funny The would pull a pin if the roles were reversed and a few episodes the roles are reversed sort of and it's an accent But so cool is fine with it. He gets to be the martyr like he always wanted so Which you can get from Didn't watch it I'm telling you I mean Okay Whenever he's realized that marcus is is sort of supporting another character those characters scenes as well or ones he ignores He's like anybody didn't watch like half the show All of it by this No, you watch the jericho scene No, katelyn's in that Okay, but no, it only is only one degree it'll only go to one degree The way that jericho makes the food is exciting and cool, which makes him a likable character But katelyn's in the scene and she reflects marcus And marcus is I I don't know how deep it goes What's the funniest visual I could have for talking about someone who's fine with accidentally dying because they're a martyr I'm thinking like ronald mcdonald, but I don't know I was gonna be like The hambler the ham burglar has taken over No, he started there with a burger in his head He's like I've always wanted to be a mcmartyr. He's he squeezes it all the grease juicing nights and blows out the Some reason I'm imagining emperor palpatine throwing out a mine shaft with that You have the statues of ronald mcdonald would like the bronze statues of him standing heroically with a hamburger I would like them to maintain there's a pin in the hamburgers if it's a Yeah, they'll never know what ronald mcdonald sacrificed for them. They never will He's got an entire vest of hot apple pies like it's a suicide vest It really does feel almost as bizarre though as as assessing emperor palpatine in the ot and concluding that he always wanted to die To become a martyr. You're like, where did you get this from? What's happening? That was gonna be my suggestion when you mentioned it I mean when we see him again in the rise of skywalker, he seems pretty cool with it I've died before This is literally jj ever to get the audience marching before He's died before guys. Come on. There's a lot of jj All the right favors with that did he all the right to do with that for palpatine is fucking hilarious It's the clearest, you know how never even given a shit. There's that meme in Justice league where he has that board that says I tried like the equivalent of a jj would be I didn't even try like I Didn't bother. I knew there was no saying I have tried before It goes real well, what do you do? Uh, yeah, okay. So there you go. Those were his three uses for weak underdeveloped characters This has been a ride So we have our three uses for this worst character in the series number one marcus is a necessary foil the uh, Actually, we did ask the the the the crew and the and the fap chat Who the worst character was and it they didn't vote marcus and that is a as a objective as you can get 100 percent Lois was echo for some reason that was interesting. I understand why I cope it's still Three This is for this worst character in the series number one marcus is a necessary foil the anti Can't be a foil without having characteristics. So fuck off. He's not the anti-kate either. So yeah Number two marcus and bodies progress setting enriching it. He embodies a setting element That sounds kind of new in a setting without embodying a setting. No, that's pretty it That's that's pretty lame a bad character. He would be doing that job badly And also like isn't that a necessary part of characterization if you are successfully embodying the society and the culture that you're brought up in Where are the inherent contradictions in the character? Where are the breaches of his own principles? We don't have those all I'll say I guess is that that's usually how we Decide if a character is failing or not but for him, it's whether or not he was interested in them Which is unfortunate There are going to be a lot of good characters that you categorize as bad based on that. Yeah, I'm cool Seems like a false positive system It's literally just a point if you're hiding like this person Anyway, I guess He represents piltover like jinxer represents is on three marcus is a prop for parallels and foreshadowings And by the way, these uses absolutely do not fix them all the flaws I talked Okay I'm sorry. What I like so he was worried when he got to this part of his video that people might stop thinking He's a good character. He's like, let me be ride you. This is he's so bad Even though it's all time I'm talking about why they're bad Where I feel like all you've done is highlight in incorrect ways albeit that he is relevant and important It's so odd He's incorrect in every direction about the character. Yeah Like I'm gonna give I'm gonna give incorrect reasons for why he's bad and then incorrect reasons for why he's good But he's But not What about in the beginning of the video are still there it's still prevented from being compelling satisfying. Oh good god Satisfying Satisfying what does that mean? Earlier I said we have to be satisfying but how is a character satisfying wait, what what is appealing? What does appealing mean? Well, and I literally said like why I like so much. I find him compelling It's like, but he isn't though. I'm like, okay Like I use the sentence marcus is satisfying and that's not What? it's an odd way to describe You I I'd say that you can describe like a narrative through line or a plot point these things can be satisfying but like characters It is an event Well, that implies that you feel satisfied when he appears on screen like right that you're just like maybe you see him and you go If I asked any of you guys Oh, yeah That's one of you guys like your opinion on on arcane as a show or an individual character and you describe them as one of These three I'd then be like Yeah These are all these these are all so broad and feelingy They're very synonymy too as well. Yeah, it's all just buzzword This is genuinely If I have three words, that's better than if I have one word. All right If if rags are told me like I'm interested in marcus because I find him compelling and I go Oh, yeah, but why you go? I just find his story really satisfying. I'd be like, okay. Yeah, why and you go? It's like, why is he so appealing? Well, because he's so At that point a bit like rags We've talked before Are you trying to piss me off? Buzzwords are so annoying because they only mean anything when backed by references that support an argument about what the character is I think that the buzzwords can be incredibly useful that when you're trying to convince people because if they agree with you They can just fill in the gaps or it just goes on question I would argue there's an irony here that I usually roll these out when I can no longer translate my experience to you with other things Like if you're like, I just don't get it. Why do you like marcus? I just go I don't know like there's something about another appeals to me. Yeah, I find Words like this probably not the ones on screen right now except compelling They're good for like getting your foot in the door in terms of a dialogue. I think so. Yeah. Yeah If we were writing a video and this was our conclusion, we'd be like, oh, we failed then Yeah, it's like if you were if you're driving down the road and someone else is driving down the road on the opposite side But you both want to tell each other how you felt about a show really quickly before you're gone This is how you do it. I think uh Because I've definitely used the word compelling when there's probably a better way to describe something I think in like regular conversation I don't really mind if these come up as long as we can expand on it further, but when this is like the the crux of your Structured scripted video Yeah, if you're just trying to give them the cliff notes, you're just going to use these words This is like writer oriented advice. This is an analysis of a character. So you need more You need it. It's insane to me that this is writing. I guess it's not insane This makes sense a lot of this makes sense actually with all the complaints we have about video essay advice Like a lot of it follows similar Aspects it drives us nuts Well, you haven't helped me like if I if I came to this video looking for advice on how to I don't know how to use a bad character. Well, it's like you really haven't helped me because I don't even know if he's bad Yeah We haven't even gotten to his fix yet Oh, I'm so excited for that. No, there's a chase I'm already upset, but I'm gonna be upset. I'm that's part. It's partly contributing to my excitement. I'm looking forward to I'm really excited to be upset by this. That's not ironically. I can't I think that's pretty compelling. All right. That's that's what we learned that that's what makes you interesting That's Position equals interesting, okay Yeah, that's why efap is an interesting character. It's all about tearing down writing advice and all these different video essays while Simultaneously trying to give writing advice. That's so interesting as a premise very interesting I think that more the guy he's like he he wants to be a martyr, you know, no But he's also a racist a racist martyr Like hitler I just I can see that because this video is like he wants to be a martyr, but he is racist That is so interesting There and as we know racist cannot be martyrs true go straight to hell From being compelling satisfying and peeling as a character But that's what I wanted to highlight here. There are cane writers had a bad character every story has bad characters bad scenes Every story has bad characters Characters of bad scenes hold on. Okay every story is that that's just like your hands up in the air and saying well I give up Bad characters you say I put In this story who would be the bad character, right? Let's say. Yeah, that's a good. That's a good way to put it every story Has bad characters. I am a bad seeds Even we say right. Yeah, sure. There's like flaws in everything But even with that statement if someone said wait, so you think it's impossible to not be flawed It's like, well, I guess it's theoretically possible. It's just that we usually find at least something in everything That's typically what tends to happen Um, but he just said you always have bad characters bad scenes like oh We're just currently talking about a show that does not have bad characters. I think I would happily say it has no bad characters Yeah Yeah, okay, so like Um, so if we look at something like 127 hours, right? That only has one character. I assume I've not actually seen it I'm just using it as an example. I Flashbacks, right? Really? No, it is other flashbacks. I can't remember I have seen it, but not so like Only I could have a flashback and remember Is that can anyone name anything with like one character or maybe two? Who are the bad characters and scenes? In sure shank redemption. Um, heaven sent has one character in it. That's a doctor I think the 127 hours example is still great like a because I don't think people remember They're being much more than just him and he's doing he's recording himself, right? That's how they get him to explore himself a bit while we're watching him. Um, like he's like doing vlogging I I think because he's trying to record like a thing people can find whatever your point is very clear There's like so if there has to be a bad character in a movie that only has one character is like well That movie is fucked He didn't think about right because like oh, give me the video this. Yeah, right Like it was a statement. He threw out that if he sat with it for like another second Be like, hang on wait. No, hold on. Is that actually I think I think he's just trying to say like, you know It's not a big deal that it has a big character a bad character because like lots of stuff does I think that's what he means But he's just I think this is I think this is his mistake Everything has like flaws and he's he's taken it a step further to not that everything has like Floors no everything has like bad components like really bad big components characters and scenes like Is there a bad character in Lord of the Rings? Who would be the bad character in Lord of the Rings? Because let's say like that's the variables of fucking sky high with that one and the amount of people in it It's like they're a bad character Yeah, I don't know man. I don't remember. I don't think so Should there'll be a bad character in Lord of the Rings media pretty soon. Who's the bad character in Chicken Run? Yeah, true. Who's the bad character in Chicken Run? Yeah, who's the bad character in like Wallace and Gromit? Curse the wearer or any like Wallace and Gromit short or like in Finding Nemo or the Incredibles Who are the bad characters? What are the bad characters in Wally's? There are no bad characters in Wally Otto because he's morally dubious and the Otto is Otto is not interesting. He's a robot who's evil. I've seen that a million times before They even have a reference to Hal as part of his design. How terrible That's some that's some lamp shedding right there Well, see but that serves a meta theme or whatever. Therefore, it's well used bad character well used Otto So confused for a second there because I forgot the autopilot's name was Otto and I was just thinking like of the simpsons character Oh, yes, Otto's face, which is the red light It's walking around in the simpsons world It's oh man Oh We're almost there. Yeah, sure of it. It seems flaws and sometimes there's nothing you can do to fix them You have to cut scenes for time nothing you can do to fix them There's nothing you can do and you have to cut scenes for time Your I you said stories. I think didn't he he didn't say tv shows and movies. He said stories So with stories if you're writing a book you got as much time as you want, you know barring Like 10,000 pages long Can we please highlight that he just said sometimes it's just nothing you can do What the fuck? It's got the secret hidden asterisk there of what there is nothing you can do given the fact that there is time and monetary constraints What does it mean for a character to be bad if you can't do anything to fix them? What does that mean? I mean for a character bad if there are no amendments you can make You fuck yourself completely It's game over You really need to like back step a lot if you if you've reached that point I don't even think you were generous what you just said there Theo about the like time and money constraints because it seems like the Context was adding on to the whole like every story has bad characters every story ends up with bad scenes Sometimes you can't even fix it. It's like the fuck Why are we even talking about it this way? Why because he said you can't scenes for time I'm like I'm assuming that's what he would be appealing to yeah It was But that's what I wanted to highlight here the arcane writers had a bad character every story has bad characters bad scenes flaws And sometimes there's nothing you can do to fix them. You have to cut scenes for time or solutions just create more Okay, you could argue that He's about to say something Elsewhere, but this is great food for us solution will create more problems elsewhere. Yes, you just keep working on it Yeah, what what kind of writing isn't easy. Sorry I would argue that is the primary issue with writing is you generate a thing that has ripple effects in other places That's the main problem solving you do in writing So when the whole game is to make it so those ripple effects are beneficial to every other That's what makes it when when you're developing a video game One of the issues with bugs is that when you fix one bug it might create bugs elsewhere That is not a justification for a game to be buggy. You just keep working at it and try to keep fixing those bugs It's the same with a story if it creates problems elsewhere fix those problems now Like fixing a leak and then there's another leak pops up. It's like well, shit. I guess I can't fix that leak. It's over I'm not happy to see the last way house an element It's like that is the element of writing is problem solving essentially You want to get your stuff across but you're like, oh, I can't have that and that I'm gonna have to hmm How do I okay this this this you're like, yeah The longer you go the harder it gets because the more variables you've introduced. That's just how it works You know, if writing was easy every story would be perfect pretty much It's gonna be a long game of compromise. I think like you will have to In a reality in which you do not have infinite time and infinite money to do whatever you want Which is you know an unfortunate reality of a lot of creation Uh, you will have to compromise in places Which the sign of I guess good creators good writers and stuff is when they take well-intentioned compromises That sacrifice little to gain a lot Yeah, it's it's picking your battles very much picking your battles if you have a limited time think about what will yield the greatest Uh results for the product overall Um, yeah, it's opportunity cost and all that that's playing into it. I guess I just Someone in chat like a problem Was I just someone in chat said a problem implies a solution. It's like yeah, but yeah, exactly Like necessarily though No, that's what implies means It implies that there's a solution. What does it mean for there to be a problem to which there is no solution It's not really a problem anymore. It just is how things are Like is it a problem that I'm gravitationally bound to earth, you know And there's nothing I can do other than like I guess build a spaceship and There you go Surely it would be more of a problem to not be gravitationally bound to the earth ringer you would you would die No, no, no, well what not so my Man, I feel like you've totally misunderstood the If the problem if if my objective is along those space As like the problem is we'll wait for me. You're gravitationally bound to the planet You need a certain amount of energy that you need to exchange with earth to get out It's like well I mean, is that really a problem? I I guess it's like it's a problem if I want to get off the planet It's a problem. Well, you it's within that framing. It's a problem. Your goal is Within that frame, it's a problem actually. I need to I need to fix it Well, the goal is not float off into space. I actually I actually agreed to the first statement But the second one's throwing me like the first statement of a problem implies a solution I agree with that a problem No solution means it's not really a problem. I'm not sure about that one Yeah, so like if you've been stabbed in the middle of the desert on fuck it an alien planet. There's no one else there um Yeah, yeah, really really bad wounds like I don't I think you could describe that as a problem Uh, yeah, so if you go less survival, which is generally compliant your goal is to survive then it's a problem I guess if you want to if you want to become a martyr, you'll be you'll be Who will know on the alien planet? If you'll sacrifice your goal is to just maintain the integrity of your intestines I like people gradually realizing the the reality of your avatar by the way jay Oh, it's still happening Everyone's in a while and some people chat like wait a minute I just I just I just I thought you know, I'd like to have an animated avatar at some point I thought what's the cheapest thing that I could do with that And you chose a really smart thing very clever very interesting thing It's the cleverest joke I've ever made So you have to cut scenes for time or solutions just create more problems elsewhere But this is great food for thoughtful writers if you have something like this that's bringing your story down in a big way And okay, don't bring it down in a big way and then have a different thing in text on screen Conflicts. I can't read that I'm listening to you. I have to pause It's confusing. Yeah Let's do that. I hate that so much is so do it if it's not like five words maybe Don't just don't do it or if it's what you're saying like subtitles or we like subtitles There's a comma at the end of it. So I'm anxiously awaiting for another sentence as well Or something else anyway solutions just create more problems elsewhere But this is great food for thoughtful writers If you have something like this that's bringing your story down in a big way and you can't fix it What you can do is find uses for that same element It's okay. Why can't you why have you already accepted defeat? Yeah, what what does it mean to find a use for a flaw? Is he talking about like Is he talking about like, oh, I just need that payoff where Han Solo shoots his pistol into the planet and explodes I have to have and it's like you can't that doesn't that doesn't mesh with it And it's like I have to so that's a problem you can't fix It's like no, that's that shouldn't be right, dude. This is on you I feel It's almost as if it's almost as if we're in an unworkable situation here, right like almost as if like I don't know. Let's say you're some kind of crooked crooked cop and you're working with a mob boss He's threatening your daughter like that kind of situation where there's really no out I mean like you could pull out of a pit out of a grenade What yeah, shut up. What's that going to do? It makes me become model making the marty always dream. Yeah. No. No. No. He never dreamed of that. That was Silco's dream Oh Like if you have the time to Think about finding uses for your flaws and you still have the development time for that to be a thing you can do You can fix the flaws. You still have the time. Oh my god I'm I was just thinking like imagine that was a real thing whether the guy was like I have to have Han blow it up with blasters. Like, all right. How do we use this? Like, well, let's make it so that the planet he chooses to blow up with the pistol It's like really really interesting and meaningful. It's like, what do you know? We're not having him blow up a planet with a fucking blaster. Are you kidding me? It's like What if the planet is made of like what if the planet is made of bombs so it makes sense You sound like someone who's on drugs and needs their fix The planet is the size of a tennis ball Yeah, there we go. We've come we've understood the video now. This is how he's contextualizing this advice It's when you cannot fix the character. You must use them Despite their flaws essentially Yeah, they must be a prop for other characters now or the themes meant to raise your story up in other ways Marcus when makes caveman's whole character function The power of the no cause discord to freak out I heard robots for a second during all those Like Anyone can take this I ain't doing it Let's hear it again. Let's hear it again. No, why would you why do you know what it says? It's just gonna hurt again Unless you inflict such damage upon us again. Oh someone move the video back Uses for that same element to raise your story up in other ways. Marcus is what makes caveman's whole character function He's only makes Marcus is what makes Caitlyn's whole character character. Can we hear if he elaborates on that? Okay Taft the scenes. I think he's talking about the foil thing. Yeah He's just referencing back to the whole way you can have a character function whether or not their foil exists like that Yeah, fucking well I know that and you know that and we all know that but does he know that I don't know like Like fucking yeah, so Marcus shares two scenes with Caitlyn cut those scenes cut fucking Marcus from the story It's literally just a story from Caitlyn's pure view. She still looks great. She's still thoroughly characterized um with clear motivations and values and I This is just this is just an understand an alien understanding of storytelling to me, right? That you have such a thoroughly well-developed character As all the characters in this show are and you say yeah But if you took this character that they never interact with on screen for more than like five minutes Um, so didn't you say all of his scenes were bad? All of Marcus's scenes. Yeah, did he say he had a good one? please I don't know. I don't I can't remember I'm saying all of Marcus's scenes were bad. I fucking open up They certainly were cool. I don't think he said that none. They weren't awesome and cool and funny. Yeah Function his own makes half the scenes that take place in the under city makes sense says his love what? Oh The other city only makes sense because of Marcus I'm so lost at this point on how you're even concluding these things It feels like he's given us all the information We're supposed to have to understand this and I am like no no no no you you I need help You're in space. You you're lost. Ah Love for his daughter is a lot. That's so close is his daughter isn't compelling Shut up. What is this is what makes caveman's whole character function? He's one makes half the scenes that take place in the under city makes sense us His love for his daughter isn't compelling that's so close is his love for it's it's amazing He's literally the opposite of what the truth is. He's he's found a way to do the exact opposite He's a bad character who makes half of the scenes in the under city work. How is this You just said contradiction his love for his daughter isn't compelling. It's possibly the focal point of what makes all of his decisions compelling Mm-hmm. What are you talking about? How did you get this so wrong? It's why you you've even stated that like what are you talking about? I guess he said he's as a whole just uncompelling. That's just how this is what you fail To take this is the only reason Luke's character works in the trilogy Bro Yoda was fridged. Okay Yoda was fridged He motivated Luke to become a better Jedi make sense us His love for his daughter isn't compelling but so close is and Marcus's inability to sacrifice is what makes so close final act Just that much more meaningful. You're insane. I was not thinking about Marcus during that scene for fuck's sake I mean, it's odd for a bad character to be at the front of your mind when watching the scene That's probably most important for like silco. Yeah Okay, so now the big question. What would have fixed Marcus as a character? Fuckled in Ready for a railing. Theo is muted. I demand that he return to engage. There's no way I'm going There you are. You'll get hurt the most hopefully I'm in the fucking internet Connection of vortex. I don't know if I'm coming through clearly. Do you think that? Oh, that's all right I understand. We've got a little bit of robot. We'll see how it goes. We'll pop us over to Singapore just for safety Nice and safe in Singapore So anyway, let's Engage with this discourse Okay, so what I can't answer is how any change would have impacted the rest of the story as a whole And that's the hard part You can remove anything you want to write but little changes in the scene or character have a ripple effect change this scene And now you have to tweak this other scene a little bit and that scene makes you tweak this other character Now the ending has to be different. It's okay So what he's established is if he makes any changes other things have to change the result All right, and that's why I'm going to choose another knowledge of those. Yeah And there's considerations of timing and animation and all these other logistical concerns Logistical You don't need to talk like you're in a fucking hurry all the time Yeah, if you cannot speak clearly then you need to speak slower Logistics to do with like location and what things are right. So how's animation and logistical concern unless I'm just completely Must understand To like how everything's going from different places to different places in any way You can argue a lot of things come into logistics, I think The detailed organization and implementation of a complex operation. Yeah, so it's absolutely You're allowed to call that logistics. I just wish he'd pronounced it logistics You're allowed to call it logistics, but not whatever he said logistical Whatever, but in a vacuum, what does this character need? What's the most efficient path to making this character work on? I'm not looking forward to this They probably need like provisions I am The same level as the rest of the characters work answer number one. I think it's his daughter Yeah, of course is yeah We go give random meaning We're already off to a strong start So before he gives his thing Anyone here anyone in the world can give what he's about to give which is he's just gonna make something be true About her as a person the thing is the show isn't doing that All right, we're not we're not exploring wren as a character. That's not a thing that happens That's not a fix. That's just a different story. Hello wren. Oh, yeah The worst kind of wren her play with enforcer dolls in the silver plate Make her saluting with the rest of the enforcers in the funeral scene. She idolizes her fire And she has this rose to show that she looks up to her father That's like that's like the default is that she looks up to her father She could even have to show why that wouldn't be the case. Yeah Sent to the idea of enforcers when she's with soko make her convince that soko must be Daddy's friend all this year's force making marcus's weakness feel more pronounced more hypocritical You know what would really have shown that she um That she that she looks up to her father as if um, she had a moustache to Sent to mirror his she drew one on and she was like, oh, I'm like you Jay, I thought what you were gonna say was you know, it would make it better is a tattoo on her forehead That said I look up to my father That's next level writing advice. I don't know She's got she's got the mark the marcus has among world's best super dad She needs both she needs both she needs moustache and a tattoo on her forehead that says I look up to my father. She's drawn some eyebrows on like really big He's an idea When he's being a bully and just being a random understudy people He sees his daughter playing enforcer with her dolls and stopping bad guys and helping people and he knows He's not that his failure in his career is his failure as a father. Well, we don't know why it's bad or not Failure as a father Wait, why would that be an example of a failure as a father to have told her enforcers are good people And then to not engage that in behavior in his real life that doesn't mean he's Failed to raise her I don't even know that like Why do we have to make him a failure as a father anyway? Why would you want that to be a goal? And it's more interesting. Well, it's it's unique. Yes. There we go I've been one I think the fact that he's a good father is An interesting element along with everything else we know Yeah, that's why I love this works is because the The daughter's doing well These he's got the good house a good position is his family's doing pretty good and it's because he's doing all this other stuff That's why it's the reason why he's doing all this because he just paid for all of his Uh dealings like it's got a tie and and then the sheriff's role was tied to silco At least the show makes it clear that that was the case This is just like this is just a it's funny because he opened with saying like it'll have ripple effects Like yes, this will have ripple effects like making him a bad father because apparently that's His failure as an enforcer is his failure as a father. It's like right. Okay What are the right he's a he's a dad, but he's also a bad dad and he's a racist That makes them interesting. These are all yeah, these just keep adding levels of interest The other scene to Jess's this one. I think this is intended to be a big moment for this character But it's just not quite hit it. I can't just did wait He is literally struggling with his conviction right now He said it doesn't quite hit like what What is going to be his fix for this kind of big on these moments that feel right and meaningful But are open to interpretation and we discussed a few of these before but you change too. You're perfect Then a real monster showed up so close to the tantrums most paintings amazing source of content by the way Thank you for writing your show What's happening? What even was that slow down? All right, sorry. I missed all of that Can we I want to suggest just all of these scenes. Is that what he said? We're gonna go all the way back for the for any sake, all right You're gonna need to slow him down because I just missed The last thing we did was he said make him a bad father, which is fun. Um, let's see what else I'm helping people and he knows he's not bad. Wait a second. I'm sorry. I just saw a thumbnail come in from the related videos It's been there the whole time, but I just registered what it says It's a picture of the of the the last event of the show with the words is not a cliffhanger I'm in text. Are you in are you shitting me? That's what it's are you? Poofing on my chest right now My god, I want to see I want to see why I want to see the title of that So the fact that we've already got season two on the way later ruins everything Okay, no, it wouldn't by the way If if that scene went on to see who died and who lived in that scene that wouldn't ruin the show I I'm fine with it being the ending But to say it's not a cliffhanger is a bit interesting to me considering We're gonna get the conclusion all of it. I would be a cliffhanger Maybe maybe best faith interpretation of the information I have is he's saying it wouldn't be a cliffhanger if you ended seconds later Which is wrong, but it's less of a dumb point than Everything else very well. He could mean Failure in his career is his failure as a father. The other scene to address is this one I think this was intended to be a big moment for this character But it's just not quite here Arcane is kind of big on these moments that feel right and meaningful but are open to interpretation And we discussed a few of these before but you changed too. You're perfect Then a real monster showed up so close to the tantrums most paintings amazing source of content By the way, thank you for writing your show like this arcane writers, but fucking now Infused why you're quick. I don't know what all that was, but all right. I guess we're moving on Yeah This scene is supposed to be one of those why can't he shoot kaolin? But all the answers that kind of come to mind for the scene. I don't think are that meaningful. He He doesn't want to be Kaolin doesn't want to be bad. Kaolin is the closest thing to gracing right now She's doing good work for a good reason. He doesn't want to fucking kill her How is that not meaningful with everything that we've already talked about being that one of his biggest motivations is to be Grayson, but he can't how how have you managed to miss any meaning here? I just don't get it He can't shoot her because What what tribalist Because his tribalistic bigotry is just too strong He's arguing that the only reason that he can't shoot is that she's a top-sider. What the fuck? That's insane You didn't understand this but you just didn't understand the show. You didn't you badly watched it. You've missed so much How did you conclude this? Oh, man, I'm annoyed now like the rest of these the rest of these that's wrong I was up to this point. That was wrong. Fuck off to realize breaking point That was oh my god. Fuck you Stop all right. Okay. All right I feel like a freak I do enjoy I do enjoy the idea that he's not shooting someone he spares someone's life because he's a bigot. Yeah It's fucking hilarious. I mean hey, man. I keep on being a bigot then I guess Like that'll be that'll be a grill and there will be someone in the audience who's like no fucking way anyone said that that someone spared The person's life because they're bigoted. What how does this make any sense? It was a big decision to spare this person's life. It's you know what it is It was bigoted of you. You know what it is unironically. It's a peace maker joke. Kree goes. Oh, I've killed lots of white people Yeah, pretty much Mr. Showed up so closely tantrums most paintings amazing source of content by the way Thank you for writing your show like this are cane writers, but this scene is supposed to be one of those Why can't he shoot kaven but all the answers that kind of come to mind for the scene? I don't think are that meaningful. He can't shoot her because his tribalistic bigotry is just too strong She's a fellow enforcer. She's from piled over. He can't shoot. Fuck off. Like what a terrible read That's one potential I'm less annoyed, but it's still really stupid It's well, that's just that's just in detailing the same reason It's not yeah, it's pissed. I don't see it. I legit don't see how I don't see it. I think that's absolute bullshit I don't think marcus is thinking of her as a pilty when he's like well I think he looks at her as katlyn and I think he sees a lot of graces traits in her and to be fair Probably traits he would wish to have that are in katlyn. Yeah Well, it's not like katlyn's a like a bad person or anything even he can recognize that He doesn't want to kill people. I think that's pretty fucking straight I feel like that's pretty straightforward not specifically. I don't want to kill pelt's over Yeah Yeah, and he was mad at someone else that because he felt like he was put into that situation He's like, I'm so fucking upset. You made me have to shoot this guy Tutor because he knows she's the good version of what he's supposed to be. She's a good cop She's a selfless person who wants to do good. He wishes he were and I think the second Those reasons not so bad. You just gloss over that. That's like the primary. All right What are they supposed to get out of this? But so what why now? Because this is where the opportunity presents itself situation This is a serious situation. He's been presented with right now. That's the situation. He's currently in. That's why now Like what what is it? Choose when this happens Like why are we making these arguments now probably because they're in response to the thing that you just said like I don't That's the situation. This is some basic cause and effect. I don't know what to tell you This is just how things work. Things happen as a result of other things He's seen her exactly. What about this situation is making him have this moment now So the way to fix it would have happened at any other point. He just this is when it happened. What do you mean? It had to happen eventually and it happened because all of these characters converged for all of these reasons onto this location And he was there Didn't want to do this his daughter was threatened and then time comes to put that pistol to Caitlyn's head Can you pull the trigger? I can't I'm too racist Too big If only you weren't asian The spirit of hitlers too strong in my veins I can't pull the trigger. I'm too racist. That needs to be on the pain If only I wasn't an honorary arian I'll put that in there somehow Jesus Christ Yeah, put that in after the he cut he didn't shoot because he was too bigoted. He said I can't pull the trigger. I'm too racist I guess this gun was like race to ariana I can say the dialogue is too overt and then I can play the scene and I can have you voice over that Something like that. Yes Okay I'm too racist I Have this moment now. So the way to fix it. I'm not a hundred percent sure on this one But I think you tweak this scene of grace and dying to give us a parallel what the tweak is I don't really know. It doesn't really matter so we can a little something that this is what I don't even care what the tweak is Doesn't ever matter This five. Fuck it. It's fine. Just whatever. You know, you do Hey to recap. All right, we what we should do is make it so that grace's death parallels Marcus's how who gives a shit? He thinks that a show is like an animal in the wild and you can just let it go free and it'll find its way How is this not already a parallel? He doesn't want to cause what he caused again It's the same like it's already a parallel. He's like, no, that's not you need to make it one. How How It doesn't matter That scene and I don't know what they have in mind for Caitlyn next season But this is sort of Caitlyn's version of the grace and dying scene passing the baton He tries to pass the baton to the right person and maybe he fails. Maybe you could do it. Oh, he's talking about his fix Is fix is he I I need so much more material to work with here. We're gonna try again I don't know each other. So the thing that you would need to make a big change for Would be them interacting throughout the show. How are you gonna do that with the time that you have? Maybe this isn't a good fix Maybe there would be oh that you need to change that it might be worthwhile to consider an alternative route We have that's pretty good. Why don't we go with that? Wait, what are you? I'm waiting for this. What are you writing here? No, I I was like it was in response to something But I've already forgot what it was It's right. Yes. Look at this. Look at this gadobe script. It's growing Oh my god, we got a lot out of this one boys. This has been horrendous advice. Like what else can we say? Don't listen to this shit It's gonna get you even worse position. He's like Fixing arcane to be worse, but he doesn't even know I don't really know It's gonna fix it to be worse There's this floor like recent. There's a bit of there's a bit of plot armor. You could There's a okay. Yeah, and anyone who tries to fix the characters in arcane It's probably gonna fix it to be worse It's a little slow We know that this is that scene and I don't know what they have in mind for Caitlyn next season But this is sort of Caitlyn's version of the grace and dying scene passing the baton He tries to pass the baton to the right person and maybe he fails Maybe you could do a thing where instead of the daughter line here He tries to put his sheriff star in Caitlyn's hand, but it drops and falls off the no No, no, no, no, no, no, no Because it takes emphasis away from the daughter And it puts it's a really weird thing for him to be like Caitlyn, you should be sheriff. It's like no, they don't know each other even close to well enough for him He just he was just considering shooting her in the face No, yeah, that doesn't work imagine how much weird day for that back for her That would be it's like yeah He went to shoot me But he couldn't because he was too racist and then he offered me the position of sheriff I got a promotion. It was great. It doesn't even like you know, if you like crawled over to there as he was As he was bleeding out, he's crawling over and then he hands her the thing. I I I'd be like, oh I don't even that doesn't even say like if Caitlyn was like, oh, that's not how this works. You can't just hand me the badge I've got to be sworn in and stuff like it. Yeah, I'm not even like the enforcer So I'm not in the organization really This works just it's so what's it's so just Great the way it is You know just stop just leave it alone. Yeah The bridge. I don't know if I really would have done it. I'm curious if you guys have any ideas. No again the problem Yeah, it sucks. Here's my writing advice. I'm curious if you have any ideas My ideas are what the show did just stay there Yeah Little tweaks like this. Let's go. She's aside is any change in one area affects everything around it This is supposed to be a big moment for jinx taking the emphasis off her for Marcus Even for a moment is making a sacrifice. It's great to get a scene to do multiple things So they actually do that briefly No, but yeah, yeah, because we get the Marcus thing and then the jinx thing they happen one after the other They don't step on each other. Yeah, they are very they're extremely closely related. We are doing a weird thing here of like Look, this scene's about this person. We can't have this one It's just like they they managed to pull it off the way that it currently exists. So I don't even know why No Things but he got a way that was sacrificing focus. So that's my take on Marcus another character. That's it. Those are the fixes make his daughter a fully realized character And oh, I don't know what the rest of this will be I guess we'll find out But yeah, the two fixes make his daughter a fully realized character make him Simultaneously making him a bad father to her and his death scene needs to Have it so that he passes on the role of sheriff to Caitlyn Somebody he barely spoken to This is what I mean like So those three fixes number one Uh, the the daughter's just like that's not what the story's about So it's if you want to have the door to be a fully realized character you go right ahead second one being the um Well, well, the the sheriff one just doesn't make sense at all, but then this this uh The second one making him a bad dad I just I don't even see the the real utility in doing that story tell him why like you can make utility out of it But I just don't know why you're doing that. Yeah, I think Yeah, I think it would hurt I mean because if yeah, it's good to have that angle on him the idea that he's a good dad despite some of the stuff we've seen Yeah And plus if it shows that what he's doing even if he doesn't like doing what he's doing It works. It is it is yielding good results for his family. So he's gonna keep doing it So that's his take on Marcus. Uh, what are these last two minutes about? I'm glad I looked into more like mel. I wasn't so moved by the character on first watch like silco I found him to be cliche and with those characters silco is cliche Oh We joked that that could be something someone could say it's like oh, he's just a criminal. I was like, oh, no Though to be fair, he just said He just said that was his first impression But I'm still surprised someone comes away with a first impression of silco saying he's generically cliche. Yeah How could a writer have that as a first impression? Oh Oh, hi, I'm just looking through his channel. There were some really fun thumbnails in here Who did crazy better you're gonna say jinx obviously I hope so I really hope sorry He's even said in this video that he thinks like the writing in the whole show. He thinks the show is great He just thinks the Marcus is bad and been pain to see Why? First I made an effort to understand them better and I realized I was totally wrong. They're great characters They're characters and I realized I misunderstood and misjudged them with Marcus. Unfortunately after looking into him more I can't say the same. He's not a good character. You'll get there eventually guy It'll be fine. Yeah one day You'll see Your sins the light hopefully you don't go to hell. You're just He's just as undeveloped and uninteresting as I initially judged him to be no It's so it's so wrong. It's so wrong Wait, hang on. He's did he say he's watched the show multiple times He has to have to be making all these videos. Yeah, because it's like first impressions and stuff, right? He's at least watched it twice He doesn't remember what happened in it. He's just as undeveloped and uninteresting as I initially judged him to be When looked at in his own right, but that's not the end of the discussion That's what I learned and honestly I think this is as important of a skill to develop as a writer as making good characters What to do with bad characters? You shouldn't be talking about writing. No, because you're not allowed anymore. Yeah What to do with unfixable elements of your story? What to do with unfixable elements? I feel like that's really bad advice that there are elements of your story that you cannot fix Because first of all Yeah, how do you know how do you identify which problems can be fixed and which can't be fixed unless you try to fix them? So like shouldn't the thing be always try to fix any problem that arises if you have the time One of his things was like if you try and fix a thing and then it causes problems elsewhere That might be why you stop trying to fix it at all just like whoa I feel like any fix that you make is going to have some effect on the other aspect of the story That's just the trade-off. That's part of the that's part of the work because you need to if you need to make changes You need to think about how they'll affect other parts of the story identify them Um and work on it And no just give up Just give up don't even try Really bad advice and no way to really figure out how to identify these things anyway. So yeah How to salvage the utility of your story's flaws and put them to use and I'm gonna be thinking about this a lot in my Own writing. So you're feeling some Marcus. Good bad. How would you fix him? What would you add leave a comment very interested to hear people's takes? I'm sure he reads them all It's gonna be great. I have to thank you all of you well 15% of you But no really all of you this channel hit 10,000 subscribers last week and it's overwhelming for me I don't know if you guys realize how sort of random this all was I mean I want to start a channel for a while now I want to make a platform to promote things I write but if you look back on my old content It's me uploading videos for my family and friends about traveling and I did some kind of unusual traveling There's some weird stuff there So I was on this trip and I was trying out some new things with youtube just experiment And I was at an airbnb that had free netflix and I was like cool I can watch squib game and then when that was done I was like, huh, what's the show arcane and then I uploaded my first arcane video like a day after that episode aired And a few days later it had 5000 views and I couldn't believe it and I found that I really loved it I really love sharing my ideas. I love talking with people in the comments And I was like I want to do this This is so wholesome good about coverage of him You know, it's great that you talked about somebody you're passionate about it worked out, uh, please do better, I guess Revise your opinion on Marcus. I feel it has the holes I don't know and I am and even if you haven't subscribed. That's fine. It's it's not that important I so just because I decided to look through like you said yeah like 19 or so videos on arcane It's like man, they are coming out so quick. Like I think it's a lot of never a minute long though, which I think is um Yeah, true But I mean like I feel like even if you sit down to try and do an analysis And then you want to condense it into one minute You're gonna have to do a few like if anything that requires even more Because you need to make sure that like every single thing that you're saying is super important and relevant drink I think it depends on the kind on the scope of the thing that you're analyzing, right? So if you're analyzing an entire character then sure Um, but if you're analyzing something like Uh, the symbolism in one scene or whatever then I think I would actually side with bringing on this one because of the fact that if you're using so few words To translate a big idea. You need to be very careful about what those words are Yeah, because you can afford to be superfluous when you're talking for an hour You can't afford to do that when you only have a minute to work with if you go like so to summarize He's not compelling. It's like, oh, do you know what you've just said? Do you know what that means? Like you need to use a different word It's not that important What's meaningful to me is just that you watch and a lot of my views are from returning viewers Which means you guys value my thoughts and analysis and that's just so cool. I don't know Oh, yeah, we we valued it Got a lot out of it. I can tell you that yeah Also put it means it means the world to me. It's really validating. So thanks everyone who watches. Thank you Oh god, we were the opposite of validating. Sorry about that. But I mean Your ideas are bad. I don't know And it's um, it's the experience that um getting your videos covered like this next experience I know the best thing you can do for it is learn from it I mean Yeah, who knows because maybe he's around or maybe he'll ignore and that's totally fine either way Thanks to the Airbnb hosts who had free netflix. Thanks to the patrons That's been growing so much as well been loving the discussions I'm having with people on there too. And yeah, new videos every once a friday and sunday. Thanks so much well So I think that's that's a lot to make in a short amount of time. I think I could make three short videos a week without compromising quality I think I uh, you know what to be fair my process is scary and alien to you I uh, I I think that there's an amount of time that you need Well, okay, let me let me make this clearer. I think I could make three short response videos a week without compromising quality Here's something to think about I guess um Oftentimes when you sit with an idea for a while it starts to just develop over time And like the more time that you afford yourself to work on something the more those ideas can develop Yeah, but that's that's why I say response videos, right? Because I find that with an analysis video that is true And I you have to sit on the ideas for a long time In my experience Whereas with a response video, I think it's much easier to just say, okay Here's that problem with this. This is wrong. This reference is wrong Um, and you can just get it right away That's that's that's that's why I find um That's why I had to really slow down when my channel moved away from mainly response videos to mainly But I guess that's but but this channel is mainly analysis. I guess that's the reason why I was uh, I guess that's true. You're right there. Just give yourself a little bit more time um I guess I would I would want to watch one of his one minute analysis videos first to see what kind of thing they're like because it's like I think there are one minute if like if I had to do a I think I could do a one minute scene construction every day Like I think I could do that. Um What I don't think I could do is a one minute like Overview of a certain aspect of something, right? I don't I don't think that'll be possible I just depends how tight the focus is even with a one minute scene analysis I feel like depending on the importance of that's like if I if I decided to do a one minute scene analysis of the Jinx echo fire that's like I there's a lot of references. I need to think about Um, there's a lot I need to think about to explain what I think works in that scene and especially I think I need a lot more than a minute to really Say what I mean, so if I'm gonna do it, but I think I would need to I think especially if I always made content on the Same show and I had all those references to hand. I would be able to do that in a day um Like, you know doctor who is the show that I know back to front the most clearly, right? I think if I was doing a scene analysis a day of doctor who I could do that fucking easy one minute I could definitely make that I am pretty confident in my references for the simpsons But if ever I wanted to talk about any episode I would have to sit down and think about it Even if I had the references on hand But if you're talking about one scene from one episode Do you not think that a day a full day would be long enough to actually do that? Um not to a place that I would be happy with it probably. I don't know. I think I need time to like I can't I I don't I don't know that I could write something that I think would be really strong That is a minute long in a in a day and then and then make the video afterward depending I guess on how much editing there is It just feels like a pace. That's a little too Especially when if you're doing that and you're making long videos as well because we're making it sound like all three are short So if you're making like one full length analysis a week Plus you need to try and figure out it just seems like a lot to do in a very short amount of time Are you scripted? I'm just wondering like I wonder if a lot of the Our perspectives on this come from the fundamentally different Processes that we have I guess it's just that um Because now now i'm thinking about it through the lens of he's just started. So this is pretty new um And like the swift pace I think it was I think it leaves you with a situation where you write Oh, this should be a parallel. I don't think it matters Where if you gave yourself a little more time, you might look at that and go Wait a minute. I should actually expand on that a bit to try and explain what I mean Like let's let's spend more time digging into this having a friend to be like wait, man You just said you just said this whole thing is important to fix the character But that it doesn't really matter. You'd be like no no no no no I just mean the specific nitty gritty nature of exactly how the scene runs you go Oh, that that doesn't really come through very well It almost sounds like you don't really care how it's done and to be fair aren't those the fix aren't the specific details the fix Yeah, like when when you're when you're writing a script for like a video I think that it can become a bit tricky to identify um the the flaws in it that aren't Stemming from just like grammar or particular sentences, but more broadly I'm trying to make a point Ideally, I don't want any of my points to just be a dead end where we're moving We're moving we stop and then there is no further relevance At all like it doesn't even really tie into uh my broad point neatly Ideally, you want like all of those points building up and then you tie them all together at the end And I think that it's a lot easier to have just weird dead ends redundant Qualifiers or just these irrelevant like non sequiturs if you don't have the time to sit down and think about What exactly is it that you're trying to say? I I don't see the detriment in giving yourself more time um, that's all well, um less content. That's I mean, that's all yeah, I I mean that's a balance We all strike right as well as that we all strike the balance between I balance it very poorly to be fair But yeah, no, I know I know it's a balancing act I guess it's just I know so he said he was making a comic as well. So it's like damn It's like you don't give it yourself a lot of time I didn't even like, you know, if if everything he was saying was accurate I would then just be like your production could use a little wick especially the commentary, but I mean Yeah, but I mean if he's new like Now that I find out he's only been doing it for a couple of months It's like well, you'll get there you'll figure it out as you go Well, yeah, and I would honestly try and appeal to him I'd be like, you know when you have words blending into each other I'm words that you have sentences that are starting up as other ones haven't even finished yet It's like just paste it out a bit better. You need to slow down You may have gotten this false assumption that you need to be as fast as possible Especially if he's making the shorts, that's probably why he's doing that It should be like you really don't need to do that I did that I did that in my early videos. I was like speaking fast. That's what like could you sheepest you? I'll do that I think that was the entirety of my thought process Well, I will say as somebody who frequently You know, I did pretty well in oral presentations I will brag about that the one note that I got all the time was that I spoke too fast Took me a long time to realize. Yeah, actually I do slow it down. Trust me slow it down Like it's it's way better. You'll enunciate more clearly There'll be less goofs people will have a better understanding of what you're saying Slow down Slow it down. It'll always help. Wow. No. Wow depends out Yeah If you're talking like yeah, each each word takes three seconds to come out Pronounce all the letters. Yes word pronounce all the letters try to overcome the limitations Well, just try to overcome the limitations of the accent as well Well, no, um, because like um, you can play into that Probably So like yeah, um articulating properly doesn't mean um And this is because like I feel like this is a common misconception A lot of people have where they're told to articulate their words properly And so what they do is they get rid of like certain aspects of their accent Well, that's not what um, you need to do. It's like, okay, so let's say you're around You're from a region of brit- well, I can't well I'm not sure that I agree with that if you want why to feel it Definitely, because if you knock out, okay, so your area of the world will understand what you're saying But other areas won't and if you So Hang on. Can I can I kind of do my example and I want to see if you still agree with that, right? Okay So if you are from a place in the united kingdom where you don't pronounce a letter t and instead you say like Britain right and you say Yeah, british. Yeah british There is still like you can pronounce that more clearly without putting the t in there. You can go Yeah, yeah, sure There's a difference between like british and right british, right british, right? You can still enunciate very clearly and articulate Um without getting rid of those aspects of your accent. That's not a necessity Yeah, I think what I was saying is articulating british as opposed to articulating the word properly to a way that Most more far more wider appeal understand because the people understand Is there any other people are there people who don't understand british? Like is that going to be something that there is almost certainly someone in the world? I would say guarantee They're gonna be surprised by what people hear you talking of that accent and they actually genuinely can't understand you If you're not stating very clearly and you can hear Because accents like you learn them pretty quickly, right? You you learn the patterns that someone's speaking with well Maybe you don't understand the first time you hear them make that sound But like you hear them do it a couple of times. You're like, oh, okay. That's how you say that sound Um Maybe but I mean if you're only exposed to like american voices for a long time It might take you a while to fully wrap your head around a different accent I think that uh, if ever your accent is getting in the way of your ability to communicate To a broad amount of people then it's probably worth trying to find a way to Dial in in a bit Yeah, I guess I am coming at this from a perspective if I was exposed to a lot of different accents growing up like in person so maybe Like there are a lot of I mean there are people who think that i'm british That's true, but they can still understand what you're saying. That's where you really are And then there are people I remember I've had a couple of people say that they thought I was american I don't know where the hell that came from I feel like there's nothing there on that front I can see the british, but I can't see the american. I can see the american I can't see the british. That's the thing, right? I really really really really well I guess I can see it more though more so than um, I can just see it more so than the british I can I just sorry I I don't know maybe this is contentious because I remember I brought up the idea once and I got push I got pushed back on it. I can't remember if it was more or if it was someone else But the australian accent is much closer to like british english Or you know like the way that uh, certain british accents than it is to american At least I do you want to say In the way that americans do though um, you see like I thought it was born from like Britain like you come over and Well, it is but i guess i've heard people say I've heard people say that that uh, that they think that the australian accent is closer to american english than uh Than british, which I again, I feel like that's not true. We spell the same way as british english and of course like For me the defining trait the defining trait of the american accent at least the one that I listen to hard up is the Is the really uh strong? Oh, I love it. I love a hard R. Yeah It's not me. I knew that you were gonna do that You do the british hours. You say your eyes like a british person. Yeah, i'm saying like an australian person You're not even right but that's closer to the strong aspects of the american American is really strong us Uh instead of saying like we say can't americans say like can't You know, I can't do that. You know like you always and or is it kind of like a's as well Like it's a project instead of a project but for me um the What we call it the um Like one of the first things that I identify an american by is the way they say they're t and you do that in the american way A lot of british people say they don't say t either so It's not not saying t. It's pronouncing it as a it's pronouncing it closer to a d I'm pretty sure that they're a british mohler say a word that has the letter t in it british t Oh, no something else Um and it's it's the word it's the letter t in the middle of a word if it's the start of a word americans Yeah, of course Attack Yeah, whereas I would say a fritter Yeah, and that is that is the american pronunciation of that sound. Well, it's also, you know, the australian one, but you know Sometimes we enunciate t's in the middle. It depends on the word. Yeah, I guess the clear one is we say water Oh, that's a great one people say yes a water. We say water. Yeah, we say Well, I say water Generally, um, I think it's just the first version is water, which is what I used to say. I'm trying I've since moved on to water I know I know Water is confusing as hell Like I can totally picture people not from britain to be like what the fuck is a war? You saying people who say water I had a teacher in school who calls it water. He just said Water y'all want some water? Do you ddr water? I guess I think a matter of like a lot of this is just you notice the differences between you notice the differences from what you hear Uh, most often rather than the similarities. Yeah. Yeah, and to clarify. I'm not saying for me to hear your accent and to say and to think that you sound um Like an english person with some differences that was just not how like I think perception That kind of thing really works. My point was never the less accent the more enunciation It's just that there's a correlation between them where sometimes your accent, especially if you're in like deeper parts of whatever country you're in Like language league really gets in the way. Yeah, there could be words where people be like what the fuck are you even saying? Who's like, oh, right? Yeah, because yeah Yeah, I think there's a benefit to trying to taper it down a little bit unless you're really leaning into it Um, yeah, which I guess it's just You can but I guess if the goal is to communicate clearly to the most amount of people You probably better serve trying to uh more strongly enunciate the words But I mean yeah, I will say those Scottish people don't change a thing. You're hilarious. I love you guys Well, I'm pretty sure dankula said that he will dial down a Scottish accent when he's recording videos That if he was speaking normally he'd be harder to under yeah, and I can believe that wholeheartedly Meanwhile, I mean, I'm pretty sure I dialed down my accent. So drinker. I think plays it up when he's doing his He's obviously playing out being a bit drunk as well. But yeah, he does Um, but yeah, I think maybe that's what makes him sound more Scottish you more than maybe you're racist Accent is probably the identity so like I'm not a I wouldn't espouse that you try to like completely change your accent to present youtube videos Or be racist the Well, it wouldn't no language That's a topic language. You can't be racist towards a language Or an accent you can No, you can't have racist intent no Let me finish my sentence for you Okay, you can use like you can try to use it in that way Uh, you can but it is it is not fundamentally racial No, it's not anybody of any race can speak any language and have any accent You know, like, you know, you see like a fucking Asian person and you like Make you go like you do the like the ching chong thing and you pull your eyes like you're making fun of the language Yeah, I mean if you do the eyes Yeah, of course that's racist, but like The whole point I'm making there is that you're you're making fun of the language because you're trying to be racist Yeah, yeah, I get you it's just the idea that on its own it can't be because it's At its core anybody can speak any language and have any accent Yeah, I know we've had this discussion before we probably had many of the discussions we have on here before we stream for a while Ideas topics go around. Yeah Let's talk about the most effective ways to be racist. Let's do it. Let's start with Marcus. What's sorry because he's the opposite Oh, no, wait, he's no, he's a great example He's the most effective Pretty effective, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, he he controlled his gun. So therefore gun control is racist um Yeah, I I suppose it's time for me to I said I'd probably say what video I've made at this point Oh So um, but I'll do it in the form of interpretive dance not not it's kind of like that. It's in a video Um, I chopped out a piece of the video and then I put the thing on it just so It's only a short one Okay How exciting Yeah, all right. All right chat. Here we go You bastards and You want me to watch together? Yeah Oh my god, except well, wow, we can make a lot of money This is a license to kill And they did it They just simply and of course the only way you could really do that is not take chances Only do something that's proven Let's not do any we've got to remember star wars came from nowhere. There was nothing like it Now If you do anything, it's not a sequel Or not a tv series Or not or it doesn't look like one. They won't do it. That's the downside of star wars and it really shows an enormous lack of imagination and fear of creativity On the part of an industry Oh There you go There's a lot of people I've seen some people say it's definitely not tfa part 4 and I was just like why Why would I wonder what they thought it was? Find those people now There are a few things I think people would be latching onto as potential But uh, yeah, there's there are lots of different things it could be but I don't see why you'd block out, uh Yeah, yeah, like I Say it's possible Yeah, that'll be friday, uh, I'm not sure what time we'll figure it out, but um Uh with that I guess we're just gonna we're just gonna jump right into the the old super shawms now And um See should I start with our arcane backlog or today's ones probably today's ones, right? Yeah, yeah start today What do you think jay? What's your opinion on this jake one? Or is there has the cum addles your mind? Both, but I think we should do today's Ah, okay very well here we go Uh, hi rags Hello to you. Hello others. I guess not as cool as raggleton though Oh It's true. Hello. I guess which means You are a more interesting character I've done so many very cool things and I am not a single father Um, are you dying? Yes, uh, I didn't deny it. So yeah What is this one collective Mirage This is they've sent a collective mirage Yeah, you're all experiencing the same mirage and it's me and it's also has an audio component. That's pretty cool It is very cool Um news Stick games fake and gay. What is this? What does that mean? Hmm new stick games fake and gay News thank you games Fake and gay. All right new soul style new soul tit Hmm All you have to do is send it in a way that we could read Yeah, that's that's the the big clue as to how to make this system work real well, you know It's all you got to do um All right, uh, do you believe in the ghost of Kiev? Is the story is um, I don't know I've heard the story. I don't know if it's true. What is that story? It's um, there's a there's a story that a a fighter pilot a ukrainian fighter pilot is Shooting down a lot of russian aircraft, which is extremely impressive, but I don't know if it's true or not ah Lord long bond could be of mubishling. Yeah, like I said, I don't know uh of mubishington We're probably not the people to ask about the russia ukrain ukraine conflict for the most insightful answers to be honest We're talking about arcane not ukraine. Come on nice Have you got any more thought to a kong fap? Of peter jackson's long kong when there's less going on it'd be a movie fap for the ages p.s Ohio rag sun squishes for the good boy. Oh Hello, thank you. I'm not opposed to a long kong Um, well, yeah, I mean it's on the cards and I don't know what this person's gonna do When we release a long kong fap, you know Well, I guess the next thing would be kong skull island, right? Oh, maybe they'll yeah, they'll go with that That's got three larson in it Oh It's got uh, it's got loki in it too. Tom Hiddleston It's got sami lal jackson in it as well. It's got uh, it's got sully too. Yeah Um, I really didn't buy into marx's entire conflict. They should have had him yell. Why am I so bad at being good? Um I mean that is some pretty good writing right there That would have really cemented him as a character. I think it would have been clear at that point what we were dealing with as a character. Yeah Have any of y'all seen peeky blinders? I feel it's a good tv or it's good tv rather, uh, but I'd love to hear y'alls opinion on it season six is releasing soon I've not seen it. I've heard it's good, but that's all season one ages ago But don't remember much about it. I've been meaning to pick it back up Dropped it. Oh, did I interrupt you there eggs? I mean too. No, no, no I was that was it you you were able to nestle comfortably in between my two thoughts That's that seems like a cozy place to nestle it is but it is it is a tiny place Oh The comfiest places to nestle are the places where you just fit badly written who dares Oh, yeah, we we got to find out they did Um batman e-fap next weekend Uh Very very very very likely. Yes When's that out again the well it's different for everyone, right? Uh, it's come i i'm going to one on wednesday mine is Friday morning. I think i'll be the first of everyone here So see batman you're gonna go see a j. Yeah, it's a Forge for me when you see in a j. Hmm I haven't got tickets yet. All right. I'll probably get on to that soon Yeah, maybe maybe maybe I ran on south like well over a week at this point Um Where's dooma? I'm sad and mad that he's not here. Anyway play ddlc dumbo's Uh, the whole e-fap crew where it wasn't fired to this one as well Sorry, not whole e-fap crew arcane crew. Uh, we got like a group chat from though This will be the last outing until I guess season two Um But yeah Pringie, please say It's bully mcfring. Okay, I'll Just post it. Yeah It's bully mcfring see you chump electricity my enemy spider man. He hates to me I hope that's in a meme at some point. I guess Oh, I'm sure maybe I should have split them up, but there's no full stop Oh, there's one full stop Um Cover Star Wars explains video Boba Fett arc I think I've got that in my selection of videos. I was supposed to check out because a couple people have said it's incredible, um Oh, yeah, maybe maybe. Yeah, because this is the thing we've had a lot of Boba Fett, you know Yeah, we have watched a lot of Boba Fett And I'm ready for that to be just the door is closed on that chapter Yeah See this vid grace Randolph arcane character ranking is worse than this by far Oh Oh, no, oh that that could be so fun though because she's so weird and she talks about John Cena's penis She was very entertaining Grace Randolph arcane. I'm curious what do rankings look like just so we can have a little taste of how Terrifying but like there's no terrible characters that she could put at the top That's they like that's encouraging. Okay. How bad can it be? Oh, I hear like you could put like Boba Fett Up at the top. So she do them like one at a time and give them Because I can't even see what it rankings are just from visually. I guess she's not doing it Oh, I see what she's doing. So number one is jinx two is vi three is victor Boris silco these this is pretty normal Yeah, unless it's the reasoning that's really flimpy There might be the re I mean like I feel like women is that a single in the top of lists more Like is there a single like list order that she could give where we'd be like that's completely like nah That's crazy way like yeah, I think if you put like silco and jinx at the bottom might be like, okay Tell me why But even though it's like yeah all the characters that are above them are great characters though. So Yeah, I guess it's her reasoning. That's gonna be the big big Um, all right, boop, boop. Sorry can't catch all of this live my big is I'll see you in the archive You bet I will see you there in the archive see there The animal of the day is the bombardier beetle. Thanks for the great content and high rags Hello, I'm looking up the bombardier beetle. I'm pretty sure we they asked us to look at this one before Yeah, because the fun fact is I had to do a bunch of voice lines for this for the video game I remember the bombardier beetle Terrifying he fought some people and they die Yes, it can melt your fucking skin off Which is bad. Yeah. Yeah Marcus is my second favorite character in the show behind victor when it showed that he was contemplating pulling the pin on himself And silco I really felt for the guy and his struggles No, no, no, he's he's not compelling. No It's it's a it's a scene because it's like even though I'm pretty sure none of us have been in that situation, right? I'm gonna say that I'm gonna say that with confidence. I'm guessing none of us have been in that situation I'm pretty sure everyone has been in the situation of thinking about doing something in that way of like if only I could just Say this or do this But knowing that it's too drastic for them and just not doing it I feel like that's an incredibly reliable probably to most people incredibly reliable experience No, he's unlikeable and unreliable The animal of the day is rags the dog. Oh, hi rags. Oh my goodness gracious. It's me I'm not gonna google myself. I know all the things. Thank you very much Initially, I liked Marcus, but thought he was underutilized. You guys helped me gain a new appreciation of him I feel like my uh perception of him went up after our big Restreams on arcane to be honest with you. Yeah lots to remember and connect Magic is real but not like these stories check out the ewen method science calls it natural intelligence But does not really understand it. This is because it cannot be understood. It must be experienced Okay Um, whatever you say buddy Ewen method. Yeah, I don't I don't okay. All right. It almost comes across as you're not even human when you said all that What do they call it ewen like the name y uen ewen Why uen method? All you Right, what is this? I'm gonna find out what this is and I'll I'll be back to you. Okay. All right. Hello pebble Hello Oh, hello Wanted to know how arcane ranks to other animated shows and movies both objectively and subjectively for me It's up there with Incredibles and others also. Oh wait, so that's the second question. Uh, so first question. Yeah, how does it rank? u versus other animated things that are also good Pretty high. It's just not fair saying really highly. Um, when it comes to like shows and movies It's like, oh man, why'd you have to lump them both together that makes this so much harder? I mean, yeah, it's tough to say but Yeah, like I'm not gonna tell you whether or not it ranks above or below any particular thing But I just like it's a very high rank. It's up there. It's with them. It's chilling out there It's having a drink with walley And uh and incredible tell you Um, that's probably the best I can do without yes, we're figuring out how to definitively rank tv shows against movies. This is very tough Um, it's it's a good line. Uh, also, what is your favorite shot from the show? Um favorite shot from the show the tough one There's this tough one. There's there's so many that are good. That's the thing Yeah, they they really carefully considered all the shots and angles on the show um Favorite shot from the show But what maybe the opener and from the very first episode near the beginning when they first climb up onto the roofs and you see You know a pretty cool one. Yeah kind of over everything. Yeah, it's neat good establishing sort of this is the world we're in kind of stuff Yeah, you can pretty much make a poster out of that shot. It's pretty good Well, that's the thing I guess there's a there's like would you choose a favorite shot for what it represents and means or a favorite shot for just the scope and scale um Because there's a couple that come to mind that you know like the coin falling into the blood and stuff I like that one quite a bit Yeah, yeah Hmm That uh That you know how when vi looks over and uh silico is seen with powder Uh near the flaming bridge. Yeah, and she's about to come running after him. It's like that uh That little shot kind of gave me chills like oh no bigger trouble and so it's like It it was impactful and the shot was just really fucking good too, you know It's like it was kind of interesting how it was The focus wasn't even in the center of the screen It was off to like the bottom left, but it's still like conveyed a powerful impact to it So that was a pretty good shot that kind of comes to mind there I'm sure there's more is just that that's something that kind of sprung to mind I I really like how the uh, the rocket smashes the glass and it like yeah reflects the face Yeah So there's a couple Hey all Hi moly you want to take a look at this arg stuff metal brought up recently if you haven't look up back rooms found footage as a new example I think i've seen that um i've seen the back room stuff. What was he saying was uh arg I think is the medium slash format It's just like internet found footage things that are all spooky Um As for what metals brought up recently like I yeah, I mean all I can chat with them by that Uh found an interesting verb the long waddled umbrella bird The long waddled umbrella bird This is how it's spelt Okay I got it It's an uh, oh wow that is uh, that is a long waddle. Yeah Man look at how big you can get holy shit It's really big. Look at it. Look at him go man, he's got a bb w She's like his hair as well Yeah, it's got that that fawns kind of thing going. Yeah, it's like is he over covered say it's like, no It's just the style he likes I recommend this guy's video about whether or not vi changed over the years very insightful this marcus video is pretty bad though Like I said, I um What I I was surprised to find out it was the same guy that I thought I saw some interesting and good videos from But that video was horrendously bad um Can't always hit, you know Can't always hit no I'm not I made you some memes see twitter I see Um I'll have to collect to them. I'll just move through my notifications about hasan being a poo So that that was very funny, uh, I believe this One and it relates to oh my goodness more hot goo Not what we need in our lives, but all right Oh man, there's some interesting stuff going on here. It's like behind the scenes in fringy's lab, you know Mike what's that sorry? I just got someone said his name What's some experimentation? Someone was talking about my lab Uh Hello Time j for your favorite out of the show the oh boy Acceptance Oh, that's beautiful so dramatic I returned by the way with knowledge of the yun method Oh, okay. Yeah, I'm surprised you were this invested in it, but Well, I don't like um bullshit science Uh, so I was like that sounds like bullshit science and I looked it up And let me describe to you the philosophy of the yun method gentleman. Oh, no, okay The yun method, um devised by a, uh, I I didn't I didn't take notes on all of his qualifications We had a lot of them. He was a first he was like a monk. Then he was a, um TV like choreographer or something along those lines. He had scenes where he did martial arts and television Then he was um and a physicist and engineer Uh, and now he's gone and then he went into he became a chiropractor. So, you know, he's got A lot of that's quite a qualifications. Yeah quite a life. Yeah um So the yun method devised by him looks as our but looks at our body as if it were a computer All parts are either ones or zeros which represents strong strength or weakness as part of your body as either either strong or weak The spine is viewed as the hard drive and it remembers everything that happens to you thoughts emotions Chiropractic genetics of your ancestors That's a good question for me instead of your brain because he's a chiropractor And he wants to play up his importance. No, I'm just fucking around The the method itself is to find programs that are no longer working that may have slowed down over time And deprogram them and reprogramming them Right to which the person talking is asked What you were talking about your spine it works on that to which she answers. Yes And the method itself to reprogram and deprogram and reprogram these old programs Is to think about them really hard using your mind like you're running your mind up and down them like a zipper Okay, what a zipper. Okay, that's the yun method I mean that all sounds to me when was this invented when was this all made up? Oh, I I think I'm not sure sometimes. I think 40 years ago. I want to say was the figure I remember it was definitely mentioned in the video, but I I I'm struggling to remember what it is I love my voice for a second there This yeah, um unless this is a very poor explanation of what it is, you know, so poor that it describes just something else instead Um, pretty sure this is dog shit It does it does sound like that Yeah, anyone who's believing in this stuff. You've been you've been spun a placebo Yeah, it's kind of like uh sounds like another Scientology to be honest with you Yeah, it's the imagery on screen those images of the the hut cream is does that relate in some way? Is this the no it doesn't no No This is much more of a important. No the hut cream has real scientific scientific. Yeah, exactly. We uh We we care about the scientific method at fringies goo labs We don't we don't just be like, yeah, you want it Well, you just really want to focus on your mind and you know science can't explain everything, you know No, the the no if that's yeah, so you can that's the point Actually science seems to be able to uh, yeah No, there there is no fring method. My method is just the scientific method. That's good enough Uh, too busy playing elden ring. We'll watch this later. That's that's fair enough. Yeah, all right I'm not gonna I'm not judging you. Why can't you do both you fucking weirdo you fuck? You know what? I'm not sure. Uh Got netflix just so I can rewatch arcane with the swedish dub interesting to see how it compares and swedish dubs are often kind of bad these days Yeah Mel was saying like you get frustrated now when you ever have to get a german dub Don't cry jinx. You're the perfect the way you are Mainly because of the losses from the the original dub and it's yeah Gotta be a frustration. It is for us when well I wouldn't know because I don't watch Wombo dubs of of like korean content and stuff now ever No, should anybody The only reason to watch dubs is if you have like um actual problems reading subtitles like, um If you like have severe dyslexia or something you can't read subtitles fast enough Sure What an undoing to have a doubter at that point you should just learn korean come on lazy learn to read into dyslexics You guys like shows dealing with the law and courtroom dramas like sview, etc. Matt moodock and daredevil also counts I Kind of like them, but not so much that I really like go out of my way to watch. Well I like Anything like it just you know Like if it was like you guys like shows about carpentries like well, I mean it's one of the characters like Japan's could be really cool. Yeah I guess are there any genres for you guys that you're like, oh, it's that show. Like I really like that genre I'll check it out. I really I really like science fiction But like that alone isn't enough to get me to watch something Um, I I'm really into murder mystery and stuff like that. So when it comes to like court stuff Yeah, I usually dig court stuff as long as there can be good in-betweens I don't like sit down and watch judge judy or nothing But you know If I was to choose any Thing I would eventually explain is because I'm I'm searching for the highs of that genre And then I'd be like, well, I guess this applies to all genres and so yeah, really I'm not I don't think I'm searching for anything in particular other than I just want some Good stories. Good material. Yeah Like I mean for me, I'll tell you like as well I think I mentioned on before the podcast that like I do have a A real thing for sci-fi archaeology stuff where it's uncovering old things from Alien civilizations, I will just check something out because it's that but I don't know why really I don't know why Have you played halo? No, but that's so high on my list I mean sounds like you're not that desperate How could it be on your list? Yeah Basically, I never played any of the halos. I have these very strong intent while I play for each That just doesn't really count Well, it doesn't have any of the alien archaeology elements No, I know exactly Basically, as soon as I discovered I played reach first and I discovered that Pretty late on actually discovered that that was a large element of other halo games And ever since I've wanted to play them and I have MCC and I'm gonna At some point just install it and go through all of them But the thing is they're games so they are longtime commitments. I imagine Um, I mean each individual campaign is probably going to take you like 10 hours And they but they do have co-op so you can play them with people So is at the top of your list to play much like Selma is on Fringy's list Yeah, so so so high on my list. I started playing disco elysium the other day Rags shame him Oh Fringy, what are we gonna do? I'll play some before you you might I should honestly I'll pay you have a complete soma first a hundred dollars on youtube Well, technically you owe me a hundred dollars more. I do Oh, you're airing this out publicly No, you do. What was the thing? Um, I well I just wanted to make the joke you said it was um a while ago You said the oh, I'll send you the super chat money that people sent directly to you If you want to just send me a PayPal and I said sure and then I never did That's where that comes from. Oh, yeah, I'll do that whenever you want and then I never did I think it would be funnier if you paying me that money is conditional On me completing soma Well, it would be 200 then but only if you beat Fringy Which is very possible Yeah, I don't want them to race through it. That's the thing That's the only thing holding me back from actually doing that, you know Holding me back from playing sure what games you want me to play fucking hell Uh, the thing holding me back from playing soma is the fact that um I I want to stream it and my internet currently isn't good enough, but I think I've got a fix for that Yeah, I'm the opposite. I don't want to stream it. I just want to play it. Um, I think I think it just is like for instance I played Mario Kart this morning for probably longer than it would take me to beat soma But it's a lot easier for me to start Mario Kart than it is soma because it feels like soma is more of a commitment Even though it's incredible Yeah, I mean it feel it's just it feels might even though it's like I'm gonna pay attention right like I'm right it feels like more mental effort to start something new that you have to pay attention Oh, no, I mean it it's not necessarily that it's new It's that I know that like Mario Kart is a very non-committal game because I can just jump You do have a little bit Like is it is it not a relatable thing to other people that a version to like starting something new rather than something You're familiar with in comfy Yes, because of the time commitment that it could pose and I have a very little of that Yeah, I think people are generally more comfortable with the familiar than the new There's that too Yeah, I mean it doesn't not make sense. Just um, you'd hope yeah that the angle of wanting to play it will compel you enough Yeah Um All right The single frame that says marcus is a single dad just reminds me of that efab video meme titled Where are they now star wars with the ewok music playing? Uh-huh I don't I don't even remember that Where are they now Is it like the end of that film that stops like after that guy gets like shot with a flare and then it's just credits roll It's like he turned himself into the authorities and then just like the credits It was that the god I butchered that You guys are the thing I'm talking about there, right? Yes, I do. You're talking about blood debts. That's the one. Yeah Yeah All I was thinking when you said that was I have to leave now. My planet needs me Another great ending Yeah It's like Yeah blood that's ending with just like marcus's story he gets shot and it's like marcus became Marcus survived and became a single dad What was that steven king movie where the murderers are a bunch of like trucks that came to life? Oh, oh, you're talking about um I'm yeah You've always technology that comes life and kills people, right? I think it's like Was it like but but they're being pinned into an eatery by a whole bunch of semi trucks Who like wanted gas or something? I know of the movie I think that's it might have that might have been what it was because I remember that one ending with like All of a sudden everything was solved and then like in the like a text blurb It said like oh the the cause was a satellite But it got blown up by another satellite that had newts and lasers and shit. So hooray We did it everyone Oh So they just ran out of time. I get it Rags do you care if I think that I think that movie would say what no If you'll think about that is a new thing I thought that was supposed to be a parody movie maximum overdrive. I thought that was Stephen King parodying himself At least that's what I understand to be the case, right? Yeah, I have no idea if it's supposed to be a parody. I just know that it's a goofy movie Oh imagine Imagine like you're you try a serious effort and someone goes so you're parodying yourself with this movie, right? And you're like, oh Oh, yeah You're like, yes, and then the producer is like, no, you wouldn't fuck up. I definitely was I'm a genius Uh, right, so you care for marx's daughter now that she's an orphan? No, of course not the opposite Sort out who knows he's an orphan I care for her less. Yeah, that's how it works Uh As a family equals automatic deep meaning dismissal Um So this is the thing you don't want to go too far in the other direction, right? If someone says Yeah, okay. He has a daughter. I guess there's an automatic amount of care comes with that Um, but we don't get to know why specifically I should be like, yeah, but the story never required anything more than he has a daughter He cares about because she's used as leverage. She's not a full character A lot of people have uh blood ties. It's a thing It'll be fine. It's normal. It's okay. People have blood debts nice Generic dadness with a crying face like yeah, I know Hey evab you should watch Bokeh Monogatari I will tell you this every no Theo is on that is all no I knew everything I needed to know In that title and I'm afraid Theo's not even in the call anymore. So that's oh, yeah Sorry, I should have mentioned that Theo's connection went wombo. So there's no way you can stay. I'm afraid Wombo Nothing interesting or deep here just generate generic e-fapness Yeah, yeah a little generic e-fapness on e-fap's crazy Why is he so mean? Why does he only hate? That's that's it part two. I think that was it Yeah, I think it was it part two. Yeah the original or the original original. Yeah the tv movies. I think they're yeah Um, I think this guy got triggered by how much of a jersey marcus was at first and missed when he became a man trapped by his past bigotry and mistakes Maybe yeah, the video was strange in terms of trying to address a marcus As though he's not had any change of mind about anything like he's a He's a constant from episode one to nine, which is just not true um We care because he has a name So on my first watch it took me a second to realize they were the same characters simply because of the moustache That's a that's a true story right there. I think the first thing I noticed when watching it was free I was like, oh shitty sheriff now and I was like sad because I was like what a piece of shit But it's a cool way of just being like yeah, that's what happened as time went on uh Yeah, we care because he has a name. Are you sure this guy is a writer because he doesn't seem to understand basic fucking concepts A lot of I wonder what he's written basic concepts like JJ Hmm He seems to elevate himself above a writer It's like for you writers. This is my advice to you. It's like I'm a good enough writer to teach writing But not the not accurately As we know the only people who teach are very successful in that field. Yeah, of course Steve wrote his own story. He was an interesting character f you The uh the pencil Steve wrote his own story. I like that. It's good. That's good Hey Fringy look up the thumbnail for only plays weed games video Fringy is currently unavailable, but I will pop that in the chat and you'll see it when he comes back and he will say things I massives is do we're still not here. Remember when he was certain that silco and jinx showered together good times It was just a kiss And he was a little mistaken um But yeah, I think he said he'd happily come on on efeb on a different uh topic. So I'm sure he'll be back 3d squelton 3d squelton is life. Also. He likes balloons. That's true true about 3d squelton I hope he wouldn't be considered uninteresting or uncompelling. Oh, it does suck Yeah The opposite of locking up violet is unlocking down yellow Did anyone unlock down yellow in the show? Uh nope friend. We don't have an anti uh marcus then hang on Uh trust the one right under city person So he's saying echo isn't trustworthy do this so much to that statement We probably didn't even address right like first of all should trust multiple people Secondly, what do you mean the one right person to trust nobody is trustworthy in the entire city except for violet Like that's weird, but then of course yeah, that's funny thing. He wasn't even referring to violet. He was referring to the lumpy guy Are you talking about Jericho who who's a lumpy guy? I don't know the little lumpy the little lumpy guy that uh, she was aiming the gun at Oh, I thought I thought he was talking about why she used him as a visual example Well, I mean even if he did or didn't that's another person that was worth trusting Yeah, exactly. But that's what he was for We because we were all thinking that he was referring to violet But he wasn't he was referring to the little lumpy dude little lumpy nerd guy little lumbus. He was using Yeah The opposite of a moustache is the bearded guy in episode one lull Look at this ugly mug. Look at his ugly. Yeah, the whole uh, like a full beard and no moustache That's a that's a style. Remember when jay on red light media would have that rags Remember that yeah, we would have that that was a fucking terrible decision that he eventually stopped doing I'm glad I make good facial hair decision What are your facial hair decisions rags? Yes Wow, you do all of them My whole my whole face is hair Because i'm a dog you see My whole face's hair is a great statement All my face is hair so, um Fuck mary kill vanda silco jericho mary jericho And who's left vander and silco vander and silco. Oh, well, we're killing silco and Oh No, we're I spoke too soon. We're we're fucking jericho Marrying vander and killing silco All right seems about right. It seems like a great dude I hang out with him. I would have beers with him and I would consider marrying him. Yes I want him to fucking raw me. All right. So anyway is cup kate meant to be asian. I didn't notice um, I think Your dad is asian. Her mom isn't I think then that's why so she's got like Like her eyes Not quite as rounded as the other characters are drawn. So I assume that's like the way that they're trying to show that. I don't know um He's a mixed race you might say. Yes I'm just only plays The weed games I'm nail Now I gotta see it only plays weed. Why did someone ask me? It's that way, but now that you've laughed at it. I want to see oh my god It's a real funny Holy plays I thought I'd finally give back Uh, give some back for the literal months of video after catching you guys live I arrived at the two hour mark So I guess I'll play on 1.5 time speed and see if I can catch up wish me luck Well, magnus, did you catch up because we're now at nearly five hours It means you probably should have by now That'll if you would Times oh it's time bonus 1.5. Fuck. I can't figure that out Maths But um, yeah, maybe maybe you are maybe I don't know McLean south is where your marriage went the last tight thing you slid in was an air vent Die hard Yeah, that's what I thought That's harsh right there I don't like x therefore x is bad. That's what this whole video is um It seems like he's got some this is the thing he's got some sort of a system, but we haven't really figured it out I want to ask him Why it is that a well utilized character cannot be that can't be a part of how well written they are as people or whatever and that You know when he opened with the whole unlikable uncompelling blah blah blah. I was just like Because he kept repeating the unlikable things like why does the character have to be All of those things basically yeah I was just I was thinking about how it's not even a collection of them. It's just any of them individually, especially when he said that Um, when he said marcus didn't do anything awesome cool and funny and stuff That's probably the biggest indication that we would have been dealing with someone who's barely past like 10 years old But I think he has so I would like to help follow up questions You're being mean yes Not meaner than you jay you were much meaner freeing had to tell you off I just have to fuck you and then I took it back. That's far meaner You're you're cruel too cruel for this dream Mm-hmm. Hi long man cool for this dream. I'm looking forward to the fourth next week. Hi rags. Hi frungle jay. You smell like cheese Oh Most expecting that you smell like cheese I hope you were recovering smelling me There's something wrong with smelling a person now Is that where we're at? Yes, the future the left once Yes Everyone's smelling like cheese Uh I think the tragedy of marcus is that by the time He had learned from his mistakes. He was already in too deep with too much to lose Yeah, I think that's a fair assessment He's he was trying man, and he just you know Some people do not review all they do is coping and trying to find a way to convince themselves that shit ain't shit Uh This referring to the video or something else try and convince themselves that shit ain't shit Maybe maybe instead of shit at stuff like that's what it's yeah And the non-directed derogatory sense like trying to convince himself that shit ain't shit, right? So what did chat just said was it ever revealed what ball's next video is about? No, no No, no, it's a shame, but we never got around to it. No Lex paid off marcus it all makes sense now Wait lex luther checks out Uh producing slash mixing music is similar to the video game bug analogy fix one problem equals creates another Is fundamental in almost every creative process I think that's fair. Yeah, it's just they're all interconnected the pieces It's just that code is a really good example because the code is very much Built up Based on connections to other bits of code and that feels like a commonly understood thing that when you try and fix a thing in a Games code it'll have repercussions in places you may never have thought it would I'm what commonly understood But I do I do get the impression there are some people who don't quite grasp What that means Like have you ever looked at behind the scenes things for video games the amount of bugs that they need to go through in triage Is like insane So many and you have to try and prioritize which ones you do you need to hit the game breaking ones Then the major ones which bugs are you going to let slide? You know the ones that you're like we can fix this but it's not worth it when we have these other ones that we need to It's been a problem in you know only speed runners will exploit no one else will notice It's been a problem in Been a problem in League of Legends for like Since it was out because they've only ever put code on top of code on top of code And so when they're like, oh, we need to lower You know this items ap scaling by 0.1 units and then they do it and then it's like So you've just made it so the one of the characters now doesn't even it can't even be selected in champions Like it's like what why and it's like I don't know that actually happened stuff. Yeah, they call it spaghetti coding where it's just like Yeah, when it's so tangled and so You just keep adding things on without going to like the base and reworking it from there Where like that was a real example of a thing that happened. Oh, I don't know if I was just made up I don't know but that's the the nature of the kind of problem you get where it just has these kinds of ripple effects So you're just like what the fuck and other people the players are like, how did you screw this up? And then they're like, I don't know I don't actually know Because it's just yes, but it's uh, I remember that it was It's it's something that gets talked about when like trying to build a new engine or something or developing a game on an engine where it's really not suited or Alternatively, you just keep iterating a little bit each time until you're like 10 years removed from the original release of the The engine and you just keep adding on top of it and yeah, it becomes really difficult to work with Yeah, I know that that was a big problem that they had When Bioware was forced to use frostbite to make games that were not made for frostbite that they had to build new systems And making changes was really difficult And there's this thing of like It sounds a bit abstract and bizarre, but it's true. Um You're you're sitting there like oh man, who should attack Boba Fess like oh, I guess just some assassins. What do they have? It's like, um We can't you can't kill him. So, you know like electric batons or whatever or something. Oh also like shields Just arm Arm held shields that like really effective nothing can get through them just to raise the stakes and it's just like You know what you just done You know, you know, you're doing when you do that you create like this really easy to access and use Shields that apply to the it's like why doesn't fucking everybody just have these Why does it and then you start to think more and more and it can all like cascade It's just like why is there no effective armor and all of star was except for the main character and the mandalorian Like he's like the only person in the world who has armor that works Um bugs the hell out of me. It's this is the thing about You it has the same problem as the hyperdrive where it's just like a lot of people think this is a good argument Where they're like well, of course you can weaponize that it's like a it's it's an object moving In whatever ways it's like yeah, but if you do It fucking breaks everything like you have to basically just create an arbitrary rule that you know No, it just doesn't work like that. It just doesn't but they didn't even state that We just had to understand it that way and then tlj was like And just like sprayed paint all over the walls and it's like now you fucked everything up and I saw people discussing that uh two days ago on a twitter thread and one of them was just like They still never explained why no one's ever used this before and they still roll out the excuse of uh holder was the first person to come up with it Which is poor shit She came up with using the fast moving thing as a weapon Wow, that's great for her And see that's an attempt to make it fit. You know, it's like that's not good enough Got a thing that goes really fast. Could we maybe what if we slammed that into someone? Do you think that would like hurt them? Whoa, shit. I never thought of that How does ray appease the sand worm without killing it? Uh, oh He Gives it a rock Gives it a wank gives that worm away. You know what that would have worked better That sounds like a 90s children's boy. It would have It would have worked better for the plot. Yeah, it would have in the world Yeah, because he's like, oh, all right Yeah Man, you know that they were like Do you think it do you think it makes sense to have ray do a force heal and ride scalco And they've never seen that in the movies before and it's like, what if we um Or if we put in that stupid show we're making the little baby can do it I'm sorry. You think that it would have you think they asked If it would make sense. I'm gonna look j There's no way it was a coincidence that uh the two first force healings ever done were done with the days of each other At different mediums like there's a reason for that it was to try and ease us into the fact that force healing is even a thing It could be to lube it up before they ease it in Because this is the thing jj is worse than john favro writing. We all agree on that, right? Yeah, I think so It's like, oh, they're both just shit though Oh, yeah, they really are if we can zoom into the scale, right? Like I think You notch is above jj Why though like what's the point of zooming in that far? To say that jj just did it the heal thing you didn't give a fuck And then he was like or someone else was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, that's fucking dumb John, can you do something about this and he's like, I mean we could have the fucking baby heal That sets a precedent of the healings a thing I guess Yeah I don't know Like would you rather have cat shits made in your face or dog shits made in your face? Dog shit because at least I could pretend it's mine. There's probably an answer to that like a good answer Maybe the one of them is typically more right depends on their diet. Yeah So what are you saying is that people can never be redeemed ever what the heck that was a weird part of the video We were just like this was the morally correct thing to do and he'd go straight to hell Okay all right Generally sacrificing yourself for someone else gets you a one-way ticket to heaven for the most part, but I don't know I don't have the rules on caneland Well, yeah Unless you're a minority wait You got to do a bunch of other good things first because yeah, I mean We just have to find out from that guy. What how do you get to happen? What you got to do? What's Mark's got to do I want theology videos from this guy Maybe he didn't pull the pin because he wasn't he wasn't racist enough That could have been it. Yeah, it's like the trigger So because he didn't pull the grenade pin at every death after marx's meeting is marx's fault true In fact, every death in general is his Joel's fault Mark is Joel the dynamic duo Just right said that Man, I wonder how he felt when he said that is like, yeah, I'm so right. This is so correct I have never been more correct rather than right now Uh Bring his goo could cure cancer, but he's too racist. Oh Maybe we can convince him It's it's I'm still working on the go Calm down. You need to make sure All right, that's what they all say. I'm still working on that's right. He's he's like uh, jase He's not he's not gonna rush things. I'm not listening to your racism for me. No, I'm more like climate dinger then What 10 years and we're good. Oh, you mean like small but really dumb And super ignorant it was an ivory tower. Yeah, that's right ivory tower evil Yes, he never explained what that meant by the way He just said it is like you guys know what I mean, right? I was like I kind of I think Best we got was evil via ignorance But I don't even know if that was actually the point And I don't know how it applies to heimerdinger any more than any human being that's ever existed Because of course there are things you just do not know about So go in this for me man, whatever. Um, nothing. I don't know about Liar try me 2 plus 5 t Oh, yep All right We could recognize australia, but we're too racist. Yeah, that's true Anakin could not have killed the younglings and tuscan raiders, but he was too racist to stop This is that's what all these stories have been about really. That's gonna be the meme, isn't it? Maybe we'll see I don't think I was a staying power of uh, I grew up around x Hatred revenge. I don't need any of that. There is no reason why Is there any man that needs a reason to protect his own children adam the first human record of ragnarok? Um What? I'm not sure. I'm not sure if that's a reference to something, but uh, yeah, I definitely don't need a Detailed and passionate reason for why a parent would protect their child. I can kind of See that as being a thing on its own If next week Mola told us that his mom died and that he's you sat about it His mom would have been fridgeed because we haven't seen their relationship True That works Unfortunate, but I mean Bridging happens in real life too We don't make the rules folks Um, have a new zealand coin for being funny on shoe's vid Yeah, even when I listened back to it. I was like, man That's almost pretty edgy even for me But it's a good it's a good joke. Well, you're in the new shoe fit via an edgy Yeah, uh, she wanted me to record being a misogynistic m&m Oh You know, it's just the usual All mine if you were an m&m. What color would you be? Blue yellow And I think I I think I'm gonna be orange You're not gonna be the red I'm gonna be red I mean, I'd be chill with red But uh, yeah, I'd like a wonderful color. Yeah, this kind of seems to me like you you to chose red I'm kind of kind of surprised. I thought you would choose flash colored because you're racist No, well, that's a well flash what flesh colored is Oh, you know, that might that might get a different Imagine having a fucking flesh colored m&m Well flesh colored m&m's would brown right because like the flesh of an m&m is the chocolate right like the flesh of a Maybe he did because it's like the the inside of your flesh. Yeah, so maybe he did Yeah, and maybe the m&m has no shell wants to be flesh colored. All right Lots of flesh in the world. Lots of colors of flesh. Cool In the world like salmon flesh is uh is is orange not salmon. It is orange. Really? It's it's orangey sort of. Yeah. Hmm. It's also delicious It is it's fucking delicious my favorite fish I really do like salmon Had salmon last night All right, mr. Salmon. Yeah, all right. Geez I didn't say I missed salmon. That was just you getting real mad. I You didn't have to say it. I inferred you are okay. What you say you sound really big mad at the moment Is everything you tricked me into thinking he said he's mr. Salmon. It's just not nice. You just sound happy Have you considered going to therapy or? I just decided to take it out on you. I'm sorry I look that's okay. All right. I won't hold it against you The first step is The second step is denial um Oh, it isn't it isn't no the first step is acceptance And then the second step i'm not okay. It is And then the third step is uh anger and then the fourth step is depression Oh, okay The fourth step is bargaining and then the fifth step is depression it all ends. You know, I'll give you that one I'll give you that one Yeah The yeah, that's it's What's the other one that people like maz the the hierarchy of maz kanata No, it's uh, who is it? Is it maz love or like maz kanata? No, it's not maz kanata's hierarchy of needs. I think it is maz kanata's it might be She does have a hierarchy of needs though She does have a hierarchy of needs She would fucking die He's versatile Someone in chat would know it's just the other one that people cite Um mazlo, that's it Is that a full name mazlo kanata's oh pavlov. No, that's pavlov kanata Paz love kanata's hierarchy as pavlov describe stages of grief Uh, all mimes have a french accent They have no accent Well, dude, they just don't I guess you still have an accent if you choose not to talk Are you are you sure right? I think so. Yeah, well What is the Mimes and mutes are different things well people they must they must have an inner monologue with which they have like an Yeah, that's where I was going I think the people who don't have accents are actually uh deaf people who have never heard speaking and lives Yeah, so so what is your inner because I think in words um I generally form sentences in my head and it's generally my own voice So, yeah, exactly So now if you don't have a voice that is your own to use Perhaps you use somebody else's voice for your own inner monologue and that would have an accent So that's like your accent and what if you're uh, well, what if you're deaf then how does the inner monologue? Then you probably sound like I So I I'm just I'm just thinking like would it be more likely that you'd be thinking in abstract like in visuals or uh, probably I don't know. That's um I am genuinely like that I guess the thing is though is that it's the thing of if you don't really have a point of reference for the way that someone else thinks Um, it might be hard to communicate It seems universal for everyone that I know that they think in words Rather than just pure concepts. I have a voxy.com article What language do deaf people think in? Oh boy. Um, let's so I hope that there's an article that's just about that specifically I I could say how a lot of people would be curious. Um, what if a mime mimes actions in order to speak had the accent? Okay, so their thinking process is a little different from normal people essentially when they think They are seeing themselves Yeah, uh, I thought you're because being deaf is a normal. Yeah, it's abnormal Uh, when they think they see themselves signing from a first person point of view or a third person point of view When they imagine a hearing person speaking They imagine them actually signing instead of speaking because they can understand him that way No, I mean, I guess the question I have now is what if what if you have a deaf person who can't sign? How do they think? With their fists like vi How do you how would you how would you think if you were deaf and blind? Like what what would you be able to latch on to? I mean, I guess helen keller must have like thought of the Emulation of what she first learned to communicate with via people touching her hand right and Right, so without spelling words out on a hand you would have to latch on to something else. Yeah, touch Yeah, and I guess Yeah, I guess that would probably be the main thing you'd have. I guess it's just interesting to think about Um, especially when I think about how much of what I You know think relies on sight um And I guess written language or spoken language There are people without internal monologues are there like is there anybody who is just an absence of thoughts arising and dissipating Oh god This is funny because it's probably true He just doesn't Like they say there's some people who can't like if you're um, like if you don't have a particularly high IQ A lot of like a high percentage of those people can't think of a lot of abstract concepts and hypotheticals Some people have trouble just visualizing objects in their head um So I think it's absolutely very possible That Hassan like legitimately has issues doing a lot of the things that we take for granted in terms of being able to conceptualize things I mean Like are just thinking Yeah, I guess it's uh, it sometimes needs restating because I think that we throw around terms like stupid as a society pretty liberally like Hassan is bafflingly foolish um To an extent that it is honestly bizarre that he has such a large audience. I I like I do not understand I don't maybe lots of idiots connect with him I have more faith in humanity than that. I guess Like come on guys. Oh, we'll we'll take care of that. Oh sweet of you I think it's I think he's the force awakens again I think the people just enjoy him in that capacity where they they're just like they throw him on They don't really think about what they consume Well, it's I mean it's it's the the problem that's sort of been discussed on the whole react thing is that um It's like a lot of people will cite It's okay because it's it's basically a stream that I can go to to have all of the information I need to know to be engaged in like internet circles But I don't have to go look for it and I can have a sense of community as well Because I yeah, it seems like a lot of the reason why people congregate in online communities is Not even necessarily like a shared mutual interest, but that their mutual interests are shaped by the community that they want to be a part of whether that Like you have more normal ones that make sense Like that you're part of a community that talks about video games and you congregate around like strategy games or something And you know, maybe your interest in strategy games increases because you spend more time Then we have the weird ones, which is people looking for community through shared political positions odd, but whatever I think that actually really depends on what the position is Maybe what kind of issue it's on I don't know I don't know that there's any specific issue a lot of the time. It seems like I guess I misspoke. I think What I mean is what I meant It's not it's not really like it's I just said something else But I think what I was trying to get at was um I think if it's the kind of thing where people are going to go out and advocate together and actually try and like Nobody does that Hang out on internet circles and talk about how good they are and they never do anything They don't even vote. Some of these people don't even vote It's like the one way that you have to affect is amazing to think There is a sizable chunk of Assan's audience that because especially if they're young because young people just don't fucking vote They just don't vote They'll they'll sit all day and watch his streams and his chair And they'll talk all this stuff up and do all these things and then they won't go vote How is that odd? Um, it's really odd if you don't do anything with this shared interest. I think yeah Like if you see Assan's are they asking why it's Well, because they're like well people join political parties It's like I would like to think that we can recognize the difference between joining a political party and like getting involved actively As opposed to just hanging out in niche internet circles To talk about how And then the one time that you could actually do something that's meaningful and it costs nothing except a Like a car ride Or a trip or something like that. Basically it costs basically nothing just getting an email Like one of the evidence an email to your local representative I didn't mean to make this the whole discussion We can get back to the same for chats and we won't one of the things I was going to say By the way, it was just when you were talking about how it's a one-stop shop in a sense for a lot of viewers To watch his stream to stay abreast of all the sort of happenings of the Internet world I would actually argue that's why they've a lot of Twitch streamers have been so defensive over the criticisms that have come from jay because you are actually like you're gonna be dealing Some damage to what is essentially the core appeal to a lot of those things that they do Which is I think you're right. I will grab all of the things for you precious viewer Don't worry. Let me just grab this youtube video hit play. Ah, my job is done I've I've worked very hard to do this today People will want to keep what they do seeming well have a have a seem legitimate essentially um I'd rather them do nothing that some motivated people that tend to cause problems george collin said that point to me somebody who like Point to me somebody who's sitting around stroking his dick and I'll tell you someone who ain't causing any trouble So Like it's all the motivated people that are causing all the trouble But they're also the ones that make things better typically, um People watch reactions to form shared opinions on stuff. They otherwise don't have to watch cough cough this community We openly encouraged like conversation though And certainly we do so we are we are actually making the content as we go, right? Like you can't watch the stream into four hours Yeah, you can't watch the stream and say that we have not engaged in making content in at least some way here, right? First and foremost, it's true. We are not simulators I guess if it's the idea of rc all internet online communities are the same It's like I would like to think that there is a way to idea Like what was one of the things that was talked about so much when we were covering that Hassan stuff Is that anybody who criticizes? I mean he screams his head off at them and then bans them and then the whole chatter like ha ha 11 months see you buddy You know what I mean? It's weird It's so weird where they all celebrate because it's like I don't see how you don't realize that that could be you Because unless unless you think that like how you you you failed you forgot the rule that we don't criticize senpai right like Unless you are of that perspective Where like you think you genuinely think that you should not criticize this man ever How do you not see yourself in the position where one day you think that Hassan is being unreasonable and this happens to you Well, it's not happening to you in the moment. Therefore. I'm fine with everything happening so far It could never be me Wings quote of the day. I can't take these snipers man Those days The bonus quote just says why TFA part 5 when haha, I need it to get I need to get to work. I need it now get to work. Oh, there you go I can't really sometimes I just can't read Um 20 they need that video. They'll be stranded away from that work 2024 That's the TFA part 5 on the way. Oh nice This this is silco Banda lied to me. He hates me Brown to me I am Yep Mulla on the song enemy. Well, I like it. It doesn't fit the story But I like the I think I said it doesn't fit it tonally Not that it doesn't fit the story the lyrics definitely fit the story. I just uh, the lyrics fit. Yeah Uh rags. Oh the misery. Yeah. Yeah, I know Rags. Yeah, and aren't tonal criticisms generally going to be subjective in nature I think it's a tough one to nail Yeah, it's like how do we like for instance Tarantino is probably a good example of somebody who balances tone in a very interesting and somewhat unconventional way like marrying comedy with drama comedy and drama is like the interesting one because I feel like um the conventional approach is you have the jokes and then you have the drama scenes And the less conventional choice the one that I find really interesting because I'm not Like I feel like it's really hard to figure out why it works. So it doesn't work is having comedy and drama happening at the same time Um, how do how do we point out something as being tonally inconsistent or like You know What context do we need to look at? Um And what if it's just that somebody finds it like upsetting personally or they just don't like it? Yeah, I don't know I think it's tough. Um, I think jojo rabbits another possibly one of the best examples actually I think uh, that's a very strong example. Yeah Um drinker recently did recommend that last sequence that uh that like final third in particular it's like that feels like a really strong example of a Blending comedy and drama without one compromising the other I I think I've said it a few times. I think I mean the chief is like a pretty strong example of marrying comedy and drama It's tough It's tough. I I think it is tough. Um, I think that you can I remember that was like one of the issues with barry was that uh There were times when the comedy was like so utterly absurd Given the situation that was playing out that it was like, hmm Yeah, I don't know Uh, keep in mind. I love atler despite its issues. God. I absolutely love silco amazing character Why is he so bad? Good at being bad lol. Hi rags Hello Uh, yeah silco is top fucking notch Have you seen the long long man commercials? I have. Yeah, they are quite amusing. It's like a gum or something. Um But but a lot of people made edits where I'm just it's just me I'm giving some gum to some ladies. You know long gum Music and the ladies give you the gum. Oh, you know what I mean. Oh jeez. I agree music music is a relevant part of tone as well It's I think I think that's uh We talk about this sometimes where what is a story trying to tell me Can influence whether I think it's good or bad like for instance if a story is trying to tell me something that Like I think the simplest example would be if there was happy music playing Like if there was a triumphant star wars music playing while Darth Vader was going down that whole way chopping up all the rebels It would just be like, what are you trying to tell me here? Um, like are you trying to tell me that this is good? I would always go as far as say would it be fun if it was just the the general style was theme plays What the fuck is this? What are we doing? What's happening? Yeah, I've got um, I've got a I've got a real one for you Fringy Um, you you're you're aware of this one, but you haven't seen it But it's one it's one of those things that we suggested checking this out to see how bad misfits gets Is that the final episode has actually the final season has two scenes on separate occasions where sexual assault is put to triumphant music Yay Yeah, no the show that show got real bad You you really have to think about what exactly you're communicating to the audience Uh with the choices that you're making and I think Because I know that this this gets a little bit tricky because what do we do when we have like like for instance when waltz No, no breaking bad has been out for 10 years when waltz or orders the uh the execution of all of the uh informants And they're playing that you know take a deep breath and start all over again That's that's kind of like it's kind of upbeat music to a very horrific scene And I mean, of course the point there is there's a contrast We've got upbeat music Contrasted with incredibly violence acts It's supposed to make you uncomfortable Yeah, yeah But I think that's a good example of the show is not communicating to you that this is good Uh, I think that the scene in isolation communicates that well enough But I think when you add the whole context of the show Where it comes clear it's like waltz is the bad guy guys like don't don't forget it like here's here's the Uh protagonist of this story that we're following But like he is the bad guy Um, and I think and it was after mike's gone. Who was the person who would have stopped him from doing that? Exactly In misfits it is literally Like so it's it's literally triumphant soundtrack not like licensed music, which I think I don't know those communicate different things right licensed music and soundtrack Well, I'll give you an example that jay. Have you ever seen good morning vietnam? I have not actually Well, remember there is a there is a scene where they play uh, what a wonderful world and they have vietnam Events, you know kind of you know visuals that you see And you get this contrast of the the music and what it's saying with uh, what's happening you know in the uh In the visual it is uh, it's definitely diagetic versus non diagetic music is uh relevant as well Um Is it yeah, is it score is it from is it in universe? um Like can people around hear it Because you can have objects on the I go for it on the misfit stuff as well So like it's a weird show right, but it gets way weirder in its fifth season There's a character who has the ability to uh, if he has sex with someone they lose their superpowers Right, that's the ability uh, the first occasion is um Um I think I think the more defensible of the two where um, He sexually assaults someone who has been possessed Um to remove the possession so that they have free will again, right? It's a really fucking weird story but um, like I think that you can It's more justifiable to but I wrote music to that scene the second one There's just no fucking justifying which is um the villain is a character who can fly um And the character this is you're about to hear these words um The guy who can fuck people and take their powers away um grabs onto him, um, and as the character is trying to fly away Um set he sexually assaults him until he can't fly anymore and then he falls out of the sky and dies That's the most sickest thing ever, but This hero know it has to be his pain Oh, really? So he meant so as the guy is trying to make his escape Ramses being right up the guy mid takeoff He's already taken off He's clinging onto this guy in midair and he rams his penis his ass And just to be clear the scene couldn't the scene had to be made even worse by the fact that this character was wearing a full jumpsuit over his entire body That somehow this guy wrestles off him midair Um, and then yeah sexually assaults him and just just to be clear This is a scene of a character being raped to death and it has heroic music over it Just because the character being raped to death is a villain. It's like man. You guys misjudged this The point that why do you know this because I've seen the show. Okay. What do you mean? So I guess to pull it back to the broader discussion the idea of What are you communicating to the audience? I think I think I think it varies sometimes, but like I would consider it to be some sort of flaw in the writing Um, I think that I think that when you think about the fact that stories are trying to communicate certain things to you whether they be values or messages or a theme of some kind that if a story presents you something that simply doesn't comport with a with like What ought to be communicated in terms of like good or bad that you can have a problem there? That could be categorized as a flaw rather than well, they're just complicated people or something like it feels like that's not If it just feels like there's there's got to be something more concrete To latch on to in terms of messaging Unlike whether you can succeed at it or fail at it And what that means for the rest of the story I was thinking as well, uh, we didn't even bring it up. I think when we talked about it in black widow But like obviously the prison scene has just got generic action music on it Um, but the reason why we wouldn't even have brought that up is because it was much more glaring that the characters had no recognition of the situation at all uh Like the music is almost Not even worth commenting on because it's just like it's it's just indicative of a larger problem at that point with No element of the writing in that case has any clue of what's actually happening Very strange stuff. We end up in that position. But yes Oh wonder woman isn't and yeah wonder woman 1984 is is a pretty clear example of that something really bad has happened But this but the film you could say the film is unaware of what's happened um And it's really off-putting When that happens Well, like a story doesn't seem to recognize I feel like smaller examples of this Uh, you remember how in a lot of older movies there would be like one or two second glances that like the heroes would show If any of their friends have been like shot down in combat or you know what I mean? Like when the hero seems to have some awareness and sadness for anything bad happening to people on their side Yeah, um or collateral damage or anything like that and how for some reason that seems to be something that you see less Now like where it seems like they're almost completely apathetic to what's happening around them or um, you know Like a simple thing a lot of disney films when the villain dies The hero has like a sad look on their face to communicate that they are not happy about this outcome It's just a really simple thing that you can do that will like endear you to someone Really quickly and like not having consideration for that. You need to think about like what tone you're conveying Captain Marvel wooh, uh, I guess that's a different one. She's just outright happy about this Which is very bizarre considering these were friends Yeah, I think I think there's still a huge contradiction there like it's like from what we understand of here. What the fuck? Mm-hmm Metropolis had its chance. Uh, yeah, I guess man of steel is a pretty strong example Like it should be the thing I mean the simple one with heroes is have the heroes save people during the battle Have civilians there that they need to go help. That's what they did in Avengers Um, you know, I have them help out civilians to remind us. These are heroes. They're not just here to fight the aliens They're here to help people um Someone just put a super channel in asking seemingly genuinely what the new video you're making is smaller Well, yeah, I'll be revealing it at the end of this stream. Yeah, get excited the new mauler video What will it be tfa part 4? Please arcane and um, I'm bridal praise whatever it'll be. I'm really looking forward to it Oh, man, and killing stormtroopers. Yeah, that's yeah Playing stuff. I think that I think that's a bit different though to me This is more of like an inherent contradiction what I'm referring to is The standard things that you do to try and endear I it feels like a good one But in Tarzan when Clayton's chopping all the vines and it's wrapping around his neck Tarzan tries to help him um And it obviously doesn't work out or um I mean another one was that uh Simba didn't let scar drop he tried to help him And it was like scar that we like he didn't kill scar scar got killed Essentially through his own actions Just trying to put a little bit more of uh either an endearing element so that heroes or a wedge between them and the really bad things That happened to like the villain or something Those dwarves were gonna fucking kill the queen though What sorry The dwarves they were out for blood Oh, yeah, they were yeah, but that's older. Don't that's uh, no, I'm fine with it. Yeah, I'm fine with I'm doing it Oh, well, I think it's interesting to see how they were just like yeah, they're going out to fucking kill her It's just a common thing that you do Um spider-man trying to save vulture. Well, yeah, but spider-man has a lot of those where like he tries to save the villain It's I feel like it's one of the things that people like about spider-man is that he's always trying to like save the villains Like he's he's never just out there ready to kill them Those bastards True, but I don't have to save you Yeah, there is that Hi memba Hi memby Uh, how do you think Grayson would have handled silko? Uh, that's that's interesting and another and another timeline. We might have seen that We would have put our finger in his bum Probably would have pushed back on him harder obviously than little Marcus did Um But it's it's tough to say. I don't know how they would clash. I would love to have seen it though No Jay's priority should still be lord of the rings Yeah, Jay Guys, I think you're just gonna give up on that Yeah, we're gonna see him That's it little babies want to get me to watch your films Have you seen vox machina? No, I have not I've heard of it though You haven't seen x machina vox machina Uh, what I've heard it's the Dota adaptation into a tv show, right? I don't know. Um, but yeah No, not seen it Mono Gattari has incest teeth brushing for real All right incest teeth like you're brushing the teeth of your sibling or family member That's not incest to just brush someone else's teeth like Unless they're fucking them in the ass. That's that's an invasive medical procedure Like is it is this like you're brushing like Your brother's brushing his teeth with your comma or something like what's What how how'd you do that? How'd you have teeth brushing incest? Please explain this to me It's if it's an anime You're probably going to wind up through a convoluted glossary before you even get to that point and that point The joke's over and we don't care That actually that does sound entirely plausible Moly missed most of my memes So I found some of some of them. I think You got you got some versus ones All right, so we can't go through all of these They're the the the classic meme format. You guys may recognize you got virgin thanos versus chad silco I'll just I'll show them all so you can you can have a look around the virgin discount joel death versus the chad vader death Bander, but yeah, all right vader Um, okay, you got virgin harley quinn versus chad death jinx or jink Jink Probably my personal favorite Dude under the shows of people virgin stepod Versus giga chat arcane. What's the point in even comparing them? You would run out of you'd run you wouldn't have enough room for all the text you'd have to put on Look above about he's looking pretty uh You know I really like that truck Many meals Yeah, he should be sad. He's having trouble. Yeah, you know, you got I got a lot of good good descriptions here to explain why Why these people are you see you got dumb haired dumb pony tails for harley versus chad at pig tails for uh The jinx that I think that makes sense I don't understand her for three movies. Yep. Yeah Those pig tails need to be way longer. It's funny too because remember when um, remember when silco Picks jinx up off the bridge and takes her away Uh after she's been like critically wounded her pig tails damn near touched the ground I think that would have been funny if silco like stepped on the pig tails and tripped a bit Your head coming right off Maybe I like the description of virgin tan is one of them says dumb purple Dumb cheer dumb purple Adoptive daughter hates him adoptive daughter loves him for silco. Yeah, it's true. Yeah, yeah, I Seems he's got a little syringe Um Where are we does the cast have any more thoughts on savika and uh that they haven't mentioned yet She's in my top three favorites. So I'd love more savika appreciation I do like I really like savika Uh moly you got like all the super chats up on screen right now. I hardly know her. Well It's funny. This is how um A nude rotic and I think drinkers sometimes do it. I don't know if there's a benefit or not to showing the order I'm reading them all like a figure dot. I don't know Some things because they're pretty they're pretty tiny. You got to really blow the screen up Yeah, I figure it's if anything it's just distracting. I don't know Because you're trying to figure out where I'm reading from or something But yeah, it's it's a nice helpful little thing that youtube does except for the fact that this screen as many other youtubers know It's laggy as hell. I don't know why Like when you scroll up and down or whatever there's a new one, it just fucking freezes for ages. Uh, Not the most useful thing ever Um, but yeah savika, I don't know She's like like she's interesting. I like I like the um antagonistic nature between her and violet and everything like that, but she's she's kind of really henchmeny And I'm just kind of like um, I'm not quite as invested in savika's plate As everyone else's because savika just kind of seems like She's just being a bitch and uh, I'm not saying that she's like and I'm not saying that she's like a badly written character or anything like that I guess I'm just not as quite as invested in her as everybody else I can tell you one thing for sure She's like a gambler and she's like a turncoat So she's uh, she's certainly got characteristics you could describe without describing her looks or anything like that. So I am he's disabled. I like her and I'm happy with it. She's disabled But I've not got a huge amount to say about her and I'm hoping that We'll take a lot of what we've done with her in season one and move it through in season two This thing I just feel like I've I understand bits and pieces about her. Um, and I do enjoy her presence I feel like It would be reading into a little too much for us to try and make anything definitive about her journey if they were even to be Considered uh, it will follow that she'll probably be more significant in season two Now that silko is out of the picture In the um in silko's office with a silko being dead at that point Is it just makes you think like she's going to be taking his role She's probably going to be in charge and she's coming into conflict with jinx Unless Violet beat her so hard. She's retarded I want to see how she interacts with jace That too. Yeah, there's there's lots to do with her and I just think that this season The two times she's lost faith in her The boss it's just like it's led to the obvious conclusion of maybe I should be the boss That sort of thing like it feels like that's a really easy sort of journey for her to do Or it wouldn't be easy for I just mean easy as a choice for where you're going to take a character um Yeah, uh, and I think that she might be assumed to be a lot more evil or duplicitous than she actually is It's just uh The the the vanda betrayal is seen as a bit much, you know a bit rude Especially when there's kids involved trying to come back from that Yeah, the new video. Oh, yeah, that's the one jay read out wings quote from maulers streams earlier this week I've never actually seen incest go down He's never actually seen it. I mean me neither Um I mean I was in my mom for nine months, but that's different Is the other quote is um, I didn't really grow up until I was 28 He was playing cod a lot, you know, you don't really grow up in doing that But cod ruined his life it grew him up and tore him down all of Judy's fault. Yes Every time he's just getting upset like now I have to play a game that I Hate like you don't have to do anything You just choose to because that's what more people watch and I wonder why that is when you declare that you make you unhappy And you start getting mad Hey, I'm usually I'm giving you money so you can admonish jay, which by the way, he had not kicked It's true But not watching lord the rings also high rags. They watch lord the rings are all hello I'm admonishing you okay get admonished I've been what does that mean? Uh, like chastised I see Wait am I no that that is what it means, right? It's essentially you're like denigrate Um, I don't know what I know how to use it in a sentence, but I don't know what the actual specific Uh You warn or reprimand someone firmly Yeah, okay, so yeah, I was kind of firmly. I could have been a little more closely Yeah, well, I guess reprimand that would be yeah Hello Mormon. Well, I Huh What do you want to say? I'm not a Mormon. Oh, I thought you said you're a Mormon raggy um However, I need to um, I need to go. I gotta head out. I I need to take care of something Uh, so you guys carry on ahead, but I gotta I gotta call it there I shall save any the doll directed to you. Mr. Raghu. We shall see you next time, sir You bet. I will see all of you later. Thanks chat for coming around and listening in and for the patronage We appreciate it. I will see y'all Uh, another time to loo. Bye. Bye People who rags just for remain Uh It was oh, yeah, hello mall man. So hello raggy boy and the arch enemy frongo arch enemy Oh, what I'm outraged here's me the lies slander Um and a supporting cast of course Wow Literally, I didn't even realize this but it says rags. How did you get banned off? Second he leaves. Well, he he posted the dreaded word I believe us what got him bad. I can't remember if that was the reason why it might have been something else Oh, he had the wrong thoughts Um, he's definitely that I just can't remember specifically, but I think that was it Uh, do y'all have plans to watch budz's video on arcane? So I think arcane is after this stream being sequestered to a reference now It's not going to have any streams built for it until season two What if the what if just right? Releases a video on arcane featuring movie bob Um, I'd have to genuinely ask if if freeman rags would be okay We're doing another arcane stream or I could just do it on my own at that point Like on a different string because if it were like the worst arcane video ever from just right it would be tempting The five arcane streams, how many did we do for joker? Did that even get to four? I'm gonna just do for tlj Oh like seven thousand or something, but that's like a that's a special boy. Okay So I saw the video you were talking about before this and it made me mad too. It was weird though I really liked this guy's video on echo. I'm sure he has better stuff than that. That must have been his worst thing I'm hoping it was Brother brushes teeth to climax. It's very strange Oh, there you go doesn't explain anything. Well, it means that they were brushing each other's teeth and one of them cooms while they're doing it There you go I just have many more questions. That feels pretty straightforward to me. I think that's that's very that's fair and interesting and yeah And i'm going back away from that that uh, probably should yeah, no, please explain more. No No, we don't know stop Oh, someone on your own time. This is the next super chat. There's a lewd tooth brushing scene in bake monogatari To worse yet that it's the main character doing it to his sister. Why why why? Why are we on Someone's got a really specific kink moving on next one is more moving on when I mean When are you going to stream Dead Rising series one through three? I don't really have any intention to do that ever. I'm a why one through three Did you leave out four because you think four sucks? I've heard that four is pretty bad. I Just know so little about Dead Rising at this point that well My reference for four is everything that I heard not just from probe cap But like everybody was talking about how four like four sucks basically No time mechanic that uh, frank wasn't voiced by the same person who voiced him originally and is basically a totally different person Also that like it was pretty buggy or unpolished Yeah The first one seems like really uh Interesting as a concept in terms of the actually having like a strict time mechanic that you have to work with Feel like more games should explore. I hear disco elysium's got that like that There are things that are timed and you need to do them at the right time Um To progress Um Yeah, I just I don't have any intention really of playing Dead Rising this is series I don't know if any of you guys ever did do rather Maybe uh, no In related news, where's wens j releasing their honor hole What I mean, I gotta be honest with you. I don't know what an honor hole Yeah, that's what it says This is it lost me there, buddy honor hole Like on a hole or on a hole? On a hole as one word Oh, like all one word on a hole not like on a hole like like a hole of honor Yeah, the On a hole but one word No, I I don't I don't know what this person's referencing Oh, a lot of people are saying it means flashlight. That's wonderful. Anyway, moving on Google image search anime incest teeth brushing, you know, I'm gonna move on to the next one Vox Machina Vox Machina is based on critical role a dnd show. Oh, sorry. It's a dnd show. Okay My bad. I think there's a dota one as well Something else, but that's it. We caught up with today's And I think since we're at six hours Feels like a roundabout ripe time, especially with rags, uh unable to Continue this journey. Um fun enough. I think metal is still streaming that fucking weirdo He's been going for 11 hours Wait, what are you reacting to jay? What's happening? Google the thing Why would you do that jay? I don't Anime jay. What more do you need to know? I don't understand this. I don't understand why this occurred Why did someone create this? Yeah, I don't know. I just don't know But um Anyway Oh, this just says so angry das. I think das has a reason to be very confused and concerned, you know I I don't know about arcane and all we're talking about is anime toothbrush fetishists. I don't understand Oh god damn weirdos I think toothbrush is the less weird part of the two things involved in that scene I don't know. You want me to think further on it? That's Figure it out. Oh, I think right sexual toothbrushes is is worse than and no is is less weird than incest I I'm actually I just got a text and plans seem to have changed. So here I am Uh Yeah, I got a text my door dash was canceled. So we're both fucked up You know how to put at your house No, I don't Well, I gotta get up and cook. I don't want to fucking cook right now. Yeah, do it Wait, so now what do we do because I was about to end because we finished the super chest Oh, um Well, I I apparently my my thing is not happening. So I I'm here if there's an e-fap There's an e-fap if there's not then back to work. I go six and a half hours of uh memes and fun times Memes and screams Memes and screams do not let them. Oh, yeah, someone asked, uh, how'd you get banned on twitter? What was the thing that got you banned? I said I said the known I said the gamer word. I think I thought it was the game word then, okay Well, you never know you legitimately don't know What the specific thing was I I never I never figured out what it was specifically. Um, if I did I've for I've legitimately forgotten I assume that's what that's what it was And the person I was responding to they ended up deleting their tweet. So what I said remained contextillist. So that's great Uh, and so I yeah, it's probably what did it Thank god, oh Thank oh, man Uh, you know, it's funny. What's funny Putin still has a twitter Who just Putin still has a twitter just But the fucking like taliban the gamer words A taliban sells twitter. Yeah, they do they sure do We've got three more now. So I can at least read them. Um, ehe. I'm lost come You're not lost. They're not lost anymore. Oh boy It's gonna be last if you were a dnd monster type, who would you be? But what would you be sorry dnd monster type? Um, let me let me look them up All right, there are 14 Different monster types. I'll list them for you. Wait aberration beast celestial aberration Oh, we'll get there No, uh dragon elemental Fay Faye Faye like a fairy, right? Oh fiend giant humanoid monstrosity ooze plant And undead I'm going to go ahead and guess I'm gonna guess I want to be an oost Of course. Well, I'd be I'd probably be a beast a celestial beast, of course. Yep. Um All right, we did it except for you. What are you gonna be? What was the entire list again? Um They are uh aberration Beast celestial construct dragon elemental Fay fiend giant humanoid monstrosity ooze plant And undead Uh, they could be a dragon Yeah, I think you'd be human. I would lose but Yeah, I mean everybody defaults to ooze, but that's dragon I'll go with dragon All right. There you go. There's the joints. It's nice. Uh It's for me to decide chat not you I don't think so. You don't get to decide what you are You are That's what the iron giant cat decides what you are in the best superman movie ever made the iron giant Well, the iron giant isn't an aberration even if he wanted to be so He's superman Rags doesn't disagree in so nice Yeah Playing 1812 overture during the prison grape scene in american history x was quite the odd choice i should say Perfection um Read the old superchats you cabbage. Well, that's the thing. It's um, it's just like What do we agree on? Was it like between six and seven as long as we reach that that we should consider it And instead of like extending past um And as long as we make sure we catch any of the uh the ones that have come in for the current Other than circumstances that prevent such things. This is the thing It it means that um, we can do other work or we can Yep, that'd be nice And the the super chat catchups are back back on on the thingy now because they got a little bit flumpy with the The boba fest stuff ranks it chopped into the time So we'll hopefully be making that progress Yes Not too much big media stuff happening either other than batman. That's it for a while Remember monogatari is thio's favorite anime. I mean that why are you What's already incest one? I don't know. I I feel like thio would be upset if if something about boku something or another That's incest one No, it's what he wants us to watch it. I don't know. I don't know all of it's very confusing and terrifying Otherwise known as anime Yeah um If you guys can't think of content just use jays. Oh, yeah, we we've got that as a backup. Don't worry Those things we really we're not short on that. We've got lots of things. We've got to get get going and doing on I got another stream tomorrow. They're gonna make sure I get sleep full And uh, I And I want to stream more elden ring because I feel like I shouldn't make any significant progress while not on stream Um as is that playing at this entire time See rude Anyway, I'm gonna play with zero volume rude It's rude to play a game that other people want to play when they're not playing it. That's just that's how it works Oh, shit. Yeah learned a lot today. Sorry Uh All right, then we'll probably stop there. Uh, thank you so much for joining us. Um Who knows what adventures may befall us in the coming years? Thank you very much for for a The chat with us in this company for the donations and um, is there anything else you guys want to say before I read the last super chat? Hmm I Working on stuff. No, I would I'd love to hear this last one. I want to send us out with a bang. All right Everyone you're ready. You strapped in I'm strapped on in I'm strapped in okay It's pretty sus that molla can say the animu name perfectly It's only because I remember that that's how theo pronounced it. Okay, and now I was like wait Is it? Oh, yeah, is it culturally insensitive to theo specifically if I don't pronounce it perfectly That's a likely story You're a likely okay I've listened to theo before Sometimes This stream right now roll back exactly 37 Minutes times three and you'll hear it. That's probably not enough actually It's probably left Uh three hours. That's probably with theo still there But okay That was that beautiful Thank you all for watching And I suppose we'll see you next time Good night. Yeah. Goodbye everybody. We will see you later Bye