 All right, here we are another episode of Let There Be Talk, a fantastic guest today. Introduce yourself, my man. Hey, Mike Levine from Triumph here. Still alive and well. Yeah, you look great, man. You always had the best look in the band. Thanks. I've never seen that before. That's a great project. It's true, man. You just had that incredible kind of 70s. Easy and Marshall Tucker, skinnered, kind of, you know, that vibe with the jazz bass and, you know, especially that us festival era with the trucker hat and just killing it, man. That's so cool. I miss those days. Those were a lot of fun. Those days were a lot of fun. A lot of fun. You know, when they pitched having you on the show, I immediately said yes because one of the most epic days of my life or epic weekends, I would say, was 1983, the us festival. I was there and I have talked to numerous people that played the show, Rudy Sarza with Quiet Riot, Nikki Six, Motley Crue, Rob Halford, Judas Priest. So it is an honor to have you on and hear your views and your memories of that incredible weekend. It was pretty much incredible. I mean, we missed most of the weekend. We were lucky to get there to play because we were in, we were playing the day before with Jay-Z Top at the Changerine Bowl in Orlando. So we had to fly right from the stage there into a limo at our stage close right to the airport, changed in the car before we got there, made the flight and landed in Los Angeles, you know, five hours later. They had a helicopter to the hotel, I call it the hotel, that was closest to the venue where everybody was staying. So it was, it started off, it started off with that, that whole day. We missed the first day, but so heavy metal Sunday, man, it was the prize. It's got to be, it's not the number one career highlight for me. It's the number one and a half career highlight, you know, so it's pretty amazing. Yeah, it's interesting because you got to think about triumph, you know, you guys have your, your hit in 79 with Lay It on the Line, you played a cantaloupe jam, which was like 100,000 people or whatever, but this was a whole different thing because you were still kind of culty in America and you were getting some radio play with Fight the Good Fight, you know, and Magic Power, but there was still that thing where triumph was, you know, it was kind of a cult following. So it had to be insane for you to, to play, be part of this. It was, but you know, they chose the, the, not only the fans, but the order of billing. Certainly the first off report that Haley Scarp's triumph honestly, at least I believe it outcrew quite right because they were not really, you know, really big yet at that point. But those five bands were the top grossing bands on tour on the road. So we were selling out everywhere and we did all the Allied Forces tour and we sold out everywhere. So, you know, we were honored to pistol on the road, you know, been able this number one. The road Scarp's were two. And we were an animosity increase. You know, as far as number of people and shows, et cetera, et cetera. So we felt we'd be large there. I mean, we turned out that the choice for us was to do three shows that want to be to react or, or do the S Festival. So we had a decision because the last play in LA was at the Rose Bowl where we co-handled the journey into 110,000 people. Wow. So we were due for an indoor play, you know, which just showed the big production, the big triumph show. And it went right down to the last minute. We were not sure we were going to do it, but we, they gave us a deadline that we had Brian Murphy from Abelot Attraction, so it was promoted for the Long Beach shows. He's at the venue because tickets were available only at the venue. He's partly lots full there. We got the team from the S Festival on the other phone going, okay, what's, what's the answer? The deadline is ticking down. And we said, we got to do the S Festival. There's never going to be, this is like, this is the ultimate show to it. It's going to be his show. Now, we do know that Van Halen got the crazy money, you know, was the offer pretty damn big for a triumph? Yeah, yeah, that's what you don't do. We got, we got really good dollar to play. We didn't get Van Halen, buddy, but so, you know, we're, we're in the ballpark so to speak. Now let's, let's get into that a little bit. So you fly in to the hotel and was everybody there just getting crazy or what was happening there? It was relatively, I'll say, just very low key. You know, we'd be, you know, my wife met me there. And so that was the last show of a leg we were on. We were going to have fun springs for a couple of weeks for vacation after, after the S Fest. So we were, you know, pretty laid back. We were pretty wack. I'm tired, but nonetheless, it was still daylight there. It's over by the pool and, you know, I was just sitting there holding the court with Michael Anthony and, you know, we hit it off. It was a good time to laugh and scratch and a lot of interviews, a lot of beauty around and that kind of thing, but it was really kind of very chill and cool. Now we know that Joe Walsh was supposed to be on that day. And that's funny because you guys used to cover Joe Walsh, but then he got moved to the third day because he wanted to be with Stevie Nicks, who I guess he was dating at the time and they put quiet riot on, but that would have been an interesting, you know, add into this heavy metal day, right? Because that's kind of a, Joe Walsh is incredible, one of my favorites, but he's definitely not, if he looked at that card, you'd be like, what's going on there? Yeah, that was pretty weird. I thought it was a mistake at first. When I first heard that he was going to play on Sunday. All right, that's impossible. That would be like putting David Bowie out or something, right? Like they just made a mistake. Joe should have been on the Bowie day kind of, which that's where he ended up, right? So, but yeah, it wouldn't be great if he was, because we would have gotten on stage. Yeah. So you're at the hotel and then it's time to go over to the venue. How many hours ahead before you're on? Are you catching Judas Priest? Because at that show, I sat in those bleachers on the stage and watched Judas Priest. Were you guys at the venue while they were on and seeing, I mean, Judas Priest was absolutely destroying it. Were you guys like, oh man, we've got to really go for it? Because I felt like each band was like going all out. Yeah, I agree. We were there at the venue when Priest was playing, and I'd be entered by way up to the side stage for a few minutes just to see if they could survive the heat with the leather sign. Yeah. But they were fine, you know, they were sweating, but it's like they were killing. I went, okay, that's great. And I wanted to look, because they were on just before we got there, got settled and then Priest went on. So I just wanted to go have a look at the sun up, right? Because there was no sound checks for anybody. So you're just praying that everything's going to work. What we had to go through was we have to use rented gear, because all our gear was in Florida. So, you know, to have a drums batched up a set of drums like Gil played, had them delivered to the venue, had to hire a drum rodeo out there, had to use Marshall apps, had to run all the apps, custom and stuff I had to use. But it was all okay. Isn't it wild to think about, you're about to play in front of the biggest crowd of your life, zero sound check for any of the bands, even the biggest band, you know, like, nap, you just walk on and hope it works. You're praying, man. You see, if you believe, you pray to whatever God prevents you now. Yeah. Now, when you guys finished, did you hang out and watch the rest of the show, the Scorpions and that Van Halen fiasco? Gil and Rick left as quickly as they could, because they were flying back to Toronto. Whereas I was staying because I'm, I'm riding a car and driving to problems, friends with roses. So, so I, we hung out for a while, saw the scarps a little bit. I thought it was really cool. Like, but they got, like David Krebs had managed, managed just the band, managed the band, I should say, who is a smart guy and a good friend over the years. You know, he had, he had the U.S. Air Force to fly by. If you remember that. Yeah, I do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's very cool. David's a smart guy. Yeah. So it's all a bit of the Scorps and then hung out for Van Halen, who were hotter than a pistol for the first 20 minutes. Yeah. And then David started to talk. And David kept talking. I kept talking. I kept talking and continued to talk. And I, Rosie, Rosie, let's go. Let's go to the helicopter back to the hotel. Yeah, boy, you know, I was there and people hit the gates. They were out of there. It was, well, because I had a motor home. My mom had drove us down in a motor home and we were staying in the camp, campgrounds. And I think the combination of Dave and it being a thousand degrees that day, people were just like, I'm out of here. It's tough to play last. Yeah, it is. It really is. I don't care if you're Van Halen or whoever, right? It's still tough to play last. Yep. Now what kind of career change did that happen for you guys after that? Did it give you a big, another boost up like bam, you know, because after that, your next record comes out and, you know, you can never surrender or you guys were kind of in between never surrender and fight the good fight allied forces era, right? On that? I thought that never surrender was out for a while. 82, right? Yeah, because I've never surrendered. I've never surrendered. You know, late 82 or early 83, I think. So, you know, we were touring on that. I can't remember. But that's like, so the us, us best was kind of the culmination of the first leg of the third, second leg of the tour or whatever, because I know we went back out. And so to answer your question, I guess, under seven was the next record. And we were changing labels. At that point. So we had got thunder seven was recorded and we got no war with the record company. Going from our C.A. Also goes to record cemetery of America to M.C.A. also known as the music cemetery of America. So you do a bunch of rock bands. Yeah. I would have given my I teeth to be on Mercury records. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What? I was going to ask you this. When you were up there, it was blazing hot. And maybe the temperature was a little bit dropping by the time you guys were on, but probably not. I just remember it was just a scorcher. How bad was it up there? It was hot. You know, it's, you know, but you're. When you walk up there, you go, it's really hot. But you got to play and you forget about the heat because you're thinking about other things that you got to worry about. Yeah, but. Worst of the heat, I think, because there was really not much direct sun on the space they had to cover. Was the dust. The dust was really the tough part to deal with. Because it's sticking your throat. I don't know what to do. We're able to say the honest with it. Like I had trouble talking, you know, and I had to do any kind of stuff. I just. I feel. I feel the festival is very underrated. And, you know, because that was basically, you know, I'm a junior in high school and that was my S festival. And I will tell you this right now, I went all three days. I did not see the country day, but I would say it was probably the greatest festival other than the heat that I've ever witnessed in America. It went pretty damn smooth for how many people were out there. You know, they say there's 670,000. They say there was a million. They say there's 300. It's all, you know, whatever. Nobody knows. Nobody knows. It's true. I've got an aerial photo of the. Venue why Judas Priest is on somebody shop from a helicopter. And it looks insane, you know, I mean, the amount of people. Yeah, it's like when we were flying in for. For the site. We're going, we're looking down out of the chopper and going. Oh man. That's the size of a small city going on down there. You know, it's like just kinds of people like no empty space. Just people, people, people. It was unbelievable. I do often say that that was the day that I think that record companies and the industry were like, Oh wow, we need to go out and sign us some rock and metal bands. Anything with leather, grab it, right? Probably, yeah. I would think so, although I don't think any of the record companies were there, you know, there's two. Oh, they're not there, but they're, they're seeing the numbers and they're seeing the footage and, and, you know, and the news and everything. They got to be going like, what's going on out there? Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, record companies were never going in for their smarts, you know, so it's like, who knows? They always thought, you know, heavy rock, heavy metal, whatever was like, you said, I'm saying, oh, somebody says, oh, it's just a cult thing. Right. Meanwhile, we're selling billions of records, billions of kinds of records. It was the biggest thing going, but it's like, it's a cult thing. Yeah, absolutely. Now, also an interesting thing with Triumph and a lot of bands back then was, you know, you have to lay it on the line, but that's in 79. These days, if you didn't have a song hit on the first record, you're gone. That's for sure, man. There was used to be a thing called artist development back then. And it was like, okay, you didn't have to have a bass with it on the first record. Now, if you don't have a hit on the first 20 minutes, you're gone. It's true. It's like spirit. Is that crazy? Well, it is. It isn't. It is because, you know, for my 10 cents worth of quality of music, this has gone from being really, really good to being really, really average in general. Like I used to say five, five years ago, I go, could someone please play a guitar solo for me on a record? You know, there's just guys hacking around playing power chords, but nobody with any chops. Like, you know, if you went to the local music store, you could play it a bit because the guitar players were nowhere. You know, but when bands didn't have guitar players, they did really well. You know, AKA, they only could take a band like Nickelback, right? It was really kind of a throwback to that late 70s and 80s era. Everybody hated it. It's the best. I still hate it. But they're great bands. The fans love them. They sell millions of records still. They sell concert tickets. Yeah, that was a good thing. I met the Nickelback guys last year and super cool guys. And then you sit back and you think about like, hey, why are these guys the whipping boys? There's so many bad bands out there without songs. I mean, they got songs, you know, that are being, they're hit songs. Maybe you're not into that style or something, but it's, you know, there's some songwriting there. A hundred percent. Yeah. So it's like, yeah, there are some good bands that are going around. I'm not saying everything's bad. Yeah, yeah. But, you know, it used to be like baseball, you know, you'd always have every week or two, there'd be a really good band in town, you know, try to be there two weeks later, journey and be there, three weeks later, easy, easy and easy. A bunch later to score. Two weeks to preach, blah, blah, blah. Right. It was like, it was like over to baseball all the time. Right. It's like, okay, here all here, here's all the teams that are coming to town. I want to go see them. Yeah. Yeah. What was it like at the early days of triumph? Because you've been there since the beginning. And so were you guys start out as a cover band or were you just kind of doing that three sets a night and bars? What was happening there? Well, we didn't have a lot of original material when we started because we didn't have a lot of original material yet. But we decided that we were going to do, okay, who's the best of the best that we could play, pull off, and it sound good that we could compartmentalize into one 30 minute set that we could do in clubs that would start and it would finish. There'd be no breaks in between. You know, you started second one and you ended minute 30. That for two reasons. What is, if you really sucked, nobody would be throwing apples at you. You know, they'd have to wait till the edge. So, um, so we did let's up with which record cuts vocally that we could play. You know, so we do a badly a lens up. Let's go. Deep purple. Deep purple. One of our favorite bands through Bentley and purple. I've been a hedgehog through a Bentley a hedgehog. Then we do a four set. That would be whatever original material we have. And maybe one or two other covers to be from there. So I think it's like, I think it's like the China crowd quite a lot. But by then the audience loves us. They're, we, they're, you know, it's like, we explained to some of their favorite music. We blew off viral. We had four lights. And it was an exciting show. That's my friends. So they accepted our original. Right. And deferred stuff. So slowly we eliminated. The cover stuff. And as we got more. So that's, that's what we did in bars. And it worked. You know, I mean, I don't know if one bar was our home town in Toronto. On Young Street, which is a big drag. It was called the Piccadilly too. It was kind of downstairs. They had a low ceiling. There was a rough of our head. But we used to, you know, we got to the point where we would, we'd only play there on our weekend. We wouldn't play weekend. Because we, we want us to have the place. So at one point we said, okay, we did do weekdays. But we can't do that anymore. So we're just going to do weekends, but we're going to do through the crowd. So, you know, there's a cover charge. You got to see the show once. And then we. They went for a whole new crack. That we, at that point we bought a. A trailer. We owned our own trailer, semi trailer, 40 foot trailer, but we didn't go in the cab yet. We parked it out on the street in front of the club. The people walked by go, what's going on down there? There's a semi park to the front. It must be something special. So we attracted people with that. Got a lot of parking tickets, but it was worth it. So that's kind of how we developed it where we played high schools, which was really the, the lifeblood kept us alive for $0. But we really stopped playing clubs all the time. The high schools were really, until they fired us because we, we wanted to be here. So we couldn't play high schools anymore. So we put on a big show and did the best of the best and our own tunes did. I did some Zen tricks, you know, just mix them in with our own stuff. And we developed the following. So that we got a record deal, or we had a record deal already, but we didn't make a record for a while, but we had a deal. How'd you get it? Before we had a band. You had a deal before you had a band? How'd that happen? A friend of mine, I used to have a record label before a trial. Sorry, I did a lot of things before a trial, but as a partner in the record label, you know, we weren't a big record label, a small record label. We didn't have a ton of gold, but we had a couple of them. And a good friend of mine, I made friends with the guy who was the head of promotion for water brothers records. And we had been at industry functions and stuff. It hit him off, really nice guy. So whatever he was going to do across the tour, it might be to tag a lot. So when he did a big show in town for all the radio people in town, I'd be intended there. He introduced all the radio people across the country, which was cool. But he left waters and started to label the site as I had a crooked along with the guy named Albert, who managed quite late, but the board passed away recently, just like last week. Albert, who was Tom's partner, passed away. So it's kind of weird. That's everywhere. Anyway, so Tom, I went to Tom. I said, I got a proposition for him. I said, I could start this band. It's going to be heavy metal. It's going to be three piece that we're going to, we're going to just change the world. He goes, really? Yup. He says, how much do you need to dance? Yep. And Gil and I, we didn't have any third players, Gil and I. He said, so when will there be a band? I said, as soon as we get the right guitar player. We went through a bunch of guys, and we thought, Rick, could be a partner for them to come in. There's a record label, there's a deal, we're going to make records and all that. I'm in. So that's how it really restarted. I'll tell you man, I think the vocals between Gil and Rick are unbelievable. And I really feel that Gil and, you know, Gil is drumming and his singing are very underrated. You just don't really hear much people talk about what he was doing. You know? Yeah. I agree with you a hundred percent. You know, he could be a very, very player and a very good singer. You know, and it's like, you know, there's a lot of singers and singers, you know, you think about it. There's not many of them. Yeah, yeah. The guy in rare earth, I think was a singer. Eagles, uh, Phil Collins, Gil, you know, it's rare. That's right. There's not like, there's not a lot. Just like there's not a lot of three piece bands either. Right. So, uh, it's, it's, but it was good because thank God, because it gave us that opportunity to break, you know, like a carry a whole show that's mixing and up in that line register all the time. Uh, so it was, uh, it worked out great. You don't have a two singers was the best thing, but so you're right about that. Sure. Was the higher influenced by Robert plant era and rush and that, because there was that era where God, you know, Boston where they're just singing high, man. You know, but no, it's like, that's voice. That's a certain voice. Right. So sometimes you went beyond the city, but it's way beyond. Like, you know, I, you over see and stuff. There was like, right. Like you break tears. Oh, listen to that. Yeah, it's interesting when you see, when you hear the lay it on the line us festival version, man, first of all, that version has really got some muscle. And then he just goes up higher, you know, and you're like, Whoa, take me to another level, folks, take me to another level. Yeah. I used to be fun to the studio with them. I go, yeah, Rick, you're being lazy. You could kick it up a notch there. You know, he goes, okay, get me a beer. No, he's right there. He said, he said, put up some penthouse pictures and something, you know, it could be some inspiration. And. Turn the lights down low and let me cry. And sure enough, he did it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was reading something where Steve Perry was like, you know, I just kept trying to go higher and higher and higher. And there's just no way now. Now, some people could do it all the way to the end, say like a D. Oh, Rob Halford still gets up there. So that's a very difficult situation. It's not like, I know you're going to be high Cornell was up in there, Chris Cornell. But yeah, you're not thinking back in 1979, when you're laying down the track, that you're going to possibly be singing this 20 years later, you know, That's for sure. So just that anecdotally on that level. producer of, you know, Guns N' Roses, Pathetic for Destruction, the might-state crew, might work with everybody. So here, his job was to find artists that would, you know, cover triumph songs. And they drew arrangements, whatever. Great bands, you know, K-D-E-R or not, but they'll explain guitar. And just, you know, incredible stuff. But a lot of guys passed because they couldn't do the rec songs, right? It's just, probably because we're looking for classic rock guys and talk to Paul Rogers. Paul Rogers, he says, I can't do that. I don't want to embarrass myself. That's why, kind of, there's a lot of guys that just passed because of how I can't touch that and do it justice. Now, once you guys do a little more record, and then you kind of call it quits, and then you did some gigs over the years sporadically, but there's no way you guys are ever going to get back together, right? I, if you need to tour, to do a tour. Yeah. Yeah, I don't think we're physically able to do that. I mean, we, you know, we got, we did three songs for the Doctor Veteran. And, and it was like rough a tooling up, just, you know, just kill it. I hadn't played it a while, but Rick was always playing. He was out on the road a lot. So he had good patience. Well, we were hacking around trying to figure out, you know, I was trying to figure out where is my dad going there? And he was going, what's a drum? But Rick had good patience. And after three or four rehearsals, we started to find the groove. And then when we actually did the gig for the fans, for the Doctor Veteran, three songs, we were dead to the end. Honestly, I was like, just, if they should be working vodka, so I just want to pass out. So the idea of a whole show, I don't think so much like, like to say Rick, Rick can't really get those notes any more. And even when you drop the key a bit, still, still not easy. We are, we all got it for, Gil's had really hard to get it. I haven't bought it for so long over the years. Yeah. So it's really tough. And you're getting older. What have you been doing since you know, you don't do music. Once that train stops and it's most of your life, was it tough to figure out what you wanted to do in life? Were you missing the adrenaline? What's going on there? So, you know, it was tough when the band just kind of stopped. And, you know, it was like, without any, there was no kind of, okay, let's take the train down, down the track slowly, but keep it moving. It just went from, okay, we just played for 18,000 people in Toronto. And the headline of the paper the next day is Rick leaves the band. And it's kind of like we went, that's not the way it's supposed to work, but shit happened. So that's the way it was. So yeah, every time I went past the airport on the highway, it's a steering wheel. It was going to the right because that's, I never went past the airport. I was turned into the airport for the highway. It was like just a reflex action. I thought it's so many hundreds of times. And yeah, so I missed it, but you know, Dylan and I started, I guess we were back in 1990. We started jamming with some people and using the studio and doing some recording. Then we finished a record with Phil X. That's our, the Edge of Access record. So that was kind of, that kept things kind of in a groove. Went out and played some dates with Phil. Well, got a big gig at Bon Jovi. So he's really happy for that. Yeah, yeah. Very happy for that. He's actually, he's all over this record, like the tribute record. Phil was always available to play for clients. So. Anyway, yeah, so that kept us kind of busy. We played a few dates. And in the meantime, I was just trying to clean up business because there was a mess. Because they're just everything happening. So suddenly. So I was, I went to take kind of a, a legal deal with that and accounting a bit and went, okay, let's figure it out. Went after the record companies, the whole bunch of though, that they are with us, like a whole bunch. Got a hood of some bad arrangements, made some new friends. No handbies at all just friends. And. So we're periphery wise, you know, as around the business then, because our agent, our lawyer was smart back when we. Signed with MCA and he put it in a clause that. We get all the rights back to the. Material all the records we own again. After a certain thing at the time. Wow. 93 comes along and it's 5% letters to MCA say, please return all master things. All right. It was all blah, blah, blah, blah. What do you, what do you think you guys are doing? And they went, yeah, you're right. They went about it. They returned everything was just great. So that's what my job might be. And so they made me feel like they tried to label that. And retooled everything. They'll read the artwork. That's not such a sheet down on the CDs, but they first came out. Started our own label. I did very well. They didn't repackage it so. So that was kind of my heart. There was a hobby, but it was something to do every single day. Yeah. That took going for a long, long time until we sold it. Oh, you guys sold the catalog? Excellent. Yeah. That was one of the first. That seems to be the way to go these days, right? Sell the catalog because we really don't know what music is going to be worth down the road because the streaming, the money has dwindled, especially now in this AI world where people can just go, you know what? I'm just going to have this AI machine do a triumph style song and I'll play it at the NFL commercials and I don't have to pay anybody. Yeah, well, that's that's going to be interesting. We have the lawyers are going to make a lot of money. Parts of that. I mean, I somewhere somehow. But yeah, it's kind of, you know, we looked at it too like a state planning, you know, you're getting older and you don't kill an anchor for dinner one day. We get hit by a bus, you know, and our wives now on the catalog, they're going to get screwed, right? So it's, you know, who's going to be kind to them about getting the right price for anything. So we figured the smart thing to do was to just let's find a buyer and don't learn New York. How to buy that's like this. I went to visit him. I hadn't been to York for years. I went to visit him as a problem. You know, it's like the satellites for sale. And like, you know, that was four years later. We made a deal because we have offers, but they were good. Now I just, you know, we're right off the table. I'm like, let's go for it. That's amazing, man. That's amazing to be able to sell that catalog and that you owned it. You know, a lot of people don't understand. Most people get the rights to the material back after 30 years. But you know, by then it's so gnarly. A lot of people aren't even around anymore. And people are just battling. So it's great that you got that back. You're able to sell it and be able to live without freaking out, you know? Well, yeah, plus it was, it made us a lot of money. You know, while we owned it, you know, we owned it for like a lot. I was 30, you know, 20, 20 odd years, right? And it was, you know, so we saw a lot of reference, like a lot of it. You know, so instead of getting your little puny royalty, you know, we're getting the whole, we had great suppliers for manufacturers, great people that work, you know, we're really the new artwork or whatever. We had the studio and a bathroom facility so we could pick stuff up and, you know, remaster it and all that. Expenses for all. And I worked for free. It was okay. You know, it was a good deal. But now, like we're able to do this us festival, you know, coming out, right? The vinyl, then, you know, limited edition. Nobody could afford to do that. You know, it makes no sense to make 750, you know, vinyl, faithful records. But we owned all the art. The artwork was ours. We had the photos to be able to, you know, take a nice staple, stuff and put it together. The old studio, so the master room to remaster it, you know, took a long time to get that done properly. And, you know, our merch company is putting it up. So you can buy it from the Triumph merch store, but you can't fill it out. I was like, that's amazing. It's such a piece of history. Those us festival sets. I mean, they are fantastic. Each band was firing with all cylinders. Everybody was hungry and everybody wanted to kill. And, you know, it is just, it's just a day in history that will never be duplicated ever. I don't think you'll ever get that many headlighters in the same room again, so to speak, right? I mean, that's why it's like you want to be there with your parents. And that's, for us, that was like, that was the deciding factor. It wasn't about the money. It was about your family with your peers. These are the top bands of the day. And, and you're part of it. So it's a lot like, you know, Bill Graham, what he did with those two and the grains, you know, you'll never get into those lineups again, you know, right? We played, I don't know, probably five or six day on the streets with Bill, but Bill was actually with the original promoter of the us festival, right? Right? He was the buyer that he worked for was, but then for some reason they had a falling out and they're very safe and free like productions in bed room, you know, kind of took over. I thought you're weird enough dealing with me, but we did deal with them to refill a little bit and that's not how great in the greens. I mean, I saw you with the thing with Sammy Hagar one on the, on the, I believe it was the maybe danger zone tour for him, but those were just unbelievable, right? Like if you look at those bills, some of them I saw would be like Ted Nugent, Aerosmith, AC DC journey cheap trick. It's like, what? You know, Bill had a knock. He's a very, very good promoter. He wasn't well liked by a lot of agents, but he was a very, very good promoter and we got a lot of great money, but our agent wouldn't deal with it at all. He'd say, you go make the deal with them. I'm not talking. I don't talk to them. It was amazing. A bill ago. Okay. He's coming. They were the just here after the show and we sold at the cow house and he came in with there was a war in advance about how to advertise the show. We said, Bill, you have to use TV. You know, you can't just put a man that is there for to expect to sell out. So we find I said, you know, definitely kill me to deal with it. Just check our guarantee and just buy TV. That's it. You won't have to pay us a nickel unless we get the first buddies out and sold out the cow house bill comes in the dress. We said, so who's going to do the settlement because we got no agent. Right. It was time to build. We just said, right. It's a check for what you think. The bill was notoriously across. You know what I say? It was settled. It's not something both programs were, but he wrote us a bigger check. We told him to try rest of the solar agent. What the check was. We went, I can't believe that. Like, you know, what if I would have been involved, you would have got wow. So that's why we like fill a lot. I love that cow palace. I saw so many shows in there. It was I went back recently and went into the venue and it's so funny. When you get older and you go in the venue, you go, wow, it's kind of smaller than I thought. When you're a kid, it just seemed massive. You know, you're seeing a hand in there. It's crazy. So yeah, so yeah, that's the tribe world. There's the, the, um, the vital coming out and there, there is, um, we're doing a, uh, the, uh, the us festival concert, the tribe us festival concert will be, it's been never on the tribe official travel, which is like for some stupid reason it never was. So it's moving, there's moved there and will be there on the day of the 25th of this month of May, uh, they're airing it for the first time on the tribe channel on YouTube. And uh, Rick, Mike and Gil will be on the keyboard answering, you don't have any chance with the fans during the, during the airing. So that'll be cool. So that's kind of our celebration stuff. That's amazing. Congrats on everything. Glad you're still alive and, and all these years of just, uh, fantastic music and the us festival. I'll never forget it. And I'm sure you never will forget it. Get this record on vinyl, everybody. Uh, the us festival, the entire triumph set and check them out on their, uh, on their YouTube and all of that. Thank you so much for doing the show, my man. All right, my pleasure. It's been fun. Yeah, good care. Look forward to the next time. All right. Thank you so much. All right. See you buddy. See ya.