 organizer who knows how to convene people to get tough things done and to figure out a plan of action to move the city forward. I want to bring our committee back to itself to reconnect, to bring the respect and dignity that we all know we can bring to really solving these complex challenges. I also know as a policymaker it is a fundamental need to really have evidence and use data and use practices that we know will work and we can do short-term and long-term things at the same time to find solutions that do not create more harm in our community. We really need to acknowledge that we have multiple crises facing our city between community safety, between affordability and livability for people and climate and that's those are the three big areas I'm running on. For me I am deeply concerned about and I know people in this room have been impacted by the realities of our substance use disorder crisis, the number of people struggling with the opioid crisis in our state. I know that people in this room who struggle with affordability, being able to live and work here in Burlington, I'm part of that affordability anxiety. I worry when I open my property tax bill can we continue to make it work in Burlington and that's on two really decent Vermont incomes but with the challenging crush of childcare costs and the increased cost of local property tax and state property tax it's becoming more and more real that we're going to lose the economic diversity that is so critical for Burlington, for students, for staff, for faculty, for everyone here in Burlington. I also see as I said many people suffering in our streets in Burlington and that is why I'm sure we'll talk more about it but when I talk about safety I talk about community safety because there's so many critical aspects to it it's complex I wish there could be just one solution to solve it all that's an oversimplification of what God is here and what we'll take to really build a city that is safe for all and a place where people feel safe and actually are safe in our community and finally in terms of livability I talk very consciously about climate that emergency is real as a mom of a four and eight-year-old there is no other urgency I feel than knowing that in 10 years Burlington's would look dramatically different than it does today the winters will look dramatically different the lake I don't know feel really swimmable at all for my kids when they're not even ready to go off to college so that urgency is real we need bolder action and climate as a city we have to be transparent and honest about the kind of bigger ideas we need to bring to the table we can't resort back to status quo it's not good enough frankly anymore and what is also not good enough and we need fresh perspectives is knowing that to bring the city back together will require a fresh perspective and new ideas and that's what I bring will bring as mayor that is what I will bring confidently as someone with the skills and experience as a state policymaker and a local policymaker and that is the kind of leadership that Burlington deserves thank you thank you very much now we'll hear from City Councilor Joan Shannon thank you thank you to UVM United and the Lawrence debate Union for hosting us here tonight I'm Joan Shannon I've been on the City Council for 20 years which started kind of accidentally I was trying to recruit somebody else to run I was dissatisfied with being excluded from the process had concerns about things that were happening in my own neighborhood and around the city and as I tried to recruit somebody else to run I was recruited to run and I said I can't possibly run for City Council I have a baby which was in my arms at that time and they said well baby said and with that I ran out of excuses and ended up running for City Council and it's been a real privilege I've seen Burlington through a lot of difficult times during that period I've seen Burlington through financial crises through the Occupy Movement and through a variety of challenges over a period of years I have served as City Council president for three years I've served under three mayors two progressive mayors one Democratic mayor I am a former small business owner I owned a business making long torso swimwear and I often say Burlington Telecom ate my business at that time with the financial crises of the city and the amount of time it required to dig in and figure out how to pull Burlington out of that I actually gave up my business and and became a realtor after that which is what I currently do I'm also the mom of that baby who is now in college and she went through all of the Burlington schools starting at at Champlain going to Edmonds and graduating from Burlington High School in 2020 I'm running because I really feel that Burlington is at a pivotal point and I think a lot of people say that and we feel a real change here since the pandemic and we've we've struggled with the same things that we've seen happening throughout the country but Burlington used to be on the positive side of national trends and it does not feel or even statistically show that we are on the positive side of the current negative trends I have faced challenging times as a city councilor and I've stood against strong political winds to do what I believed was right in 2020 after the murder of George Floyd we faced a racial reckoning and as part of that racial reckoning there was an effort to defund the police and while I very much appreciate the movement and think that we need to do more to create justice in this world and in our city I did not agree with that action and I offered an alternative to doing that I didn't think that defunding the police going from 105 officers to 74 officers which was proposed on a Thursday or Friday and voted on a Monday I didn't think that that was the way to make that kind of a decision I think that we need process and we need to be rational when we're making important decisions and we failed to do that and even when we came back and several times asked to reverse that we failed to get the votes to reverse it until we were in a very dire situation that we remain in today I want to say that that I do want Burlington to be a healthy and safe community I want Burlington to be an affordable community and I want Burlington to be a vibrant and inclusive community I agree that there's too much divisiveness in our community and I certainly feel it personally a lot of that has been directed towards me I have tried to run a campaign that is positive I have asked my supporters to run a campaign that is positive and I hope that we are meeting that standard I'm very proud while I'm not a union organizer that's not my background I still have all four union endorsements from all four city unions I have the endorsement of the police the fire AFSCME who represents 300 members across all city departments and the IBEW electrical union I value all of you here up at UVM faculty and students I value our workers I value our downtown our neighborhoods our institutions and most of all I value our sense of community I want all of us to work together to heal restore and celebrate our Burlington thank you thank you Joan so what's gonna happen now is we're gonna go back and forth with questions and after each question the other person will get a chance to respond for one minute I also want to say okay these are how many questions we have how many people want to stay to midnight so just remember to that we have a lot of questions here we have some our own questions so we'll do our best to get as many done as possible thank you for that so Emma won the famous toss and our first question is can both candidates explain why they have not called for a ceasefire and an end to the occupation of Palestine despite overwhelming legal empirical and historical evidence that has committed genocide and other crimes against humanity and that is occupation which is illegal Emma thank you for the question I have called for a bilateral ceasefire I was raised by activists who have a deep commitment to the peace movement and to anti-violence and the only way we can do that is to call for a bilateral ceasefire to protect the innocent people who are in harm's way have been harmed have been killed with what's going on in Palestine and Israel that's the only way that we create peace but it has to include ending terrorism ending the attacks by Hamas returning the hostages and also ending Israel's military siege involved in that region I really truly believe in peace as I said it is a framework for which I was raised I have been to so many peace protests against every war that has happened since in my 43 years on this planet it is it runs through me I don't serve on city council right now what I would say if this question is also leading to the questions I think I really firmly also believe in our direct democracy process that we have under our charter and what that requires is what that requires is due diligence by the mayor and city council to review our charter to make sure that the requirements are met and when the requirements are met met that is the only question that is being asked of the city council and mayor and then it should go to the community where hopefully we can have the real conversation and build the real relationships and I want to emphasize as an organizer there is so much harm going on and when we we have to take that seriously as leaders to make sure we can have the critical conversations we need within the community when a question like this is coming to to voters it should have gone to voters and we should be having deeper conversations to to address and address and heal the harm that has happened in our community this very critical conversation because there's so there's so much at risk so thank you Joan thank you I did support a resolution that called for peace between Israel and Palestine and I do support freedom for the Palestinian people I oppose violence and the war that is happening in Gaza and I believe that the hostages should be returned I firmly stand against anti-semitism as well and I'm concerned for our Jewish community I also agree with and support a bilateral negotiated ceasefire thank you okay we're all good you have to you have to also appreciate the difficulty of reading your handwriting I am doing my very best I'm not leading anything out on purpose do you want to respond to Joan and then Joan can respond to you sure yeah well I appreciate that what I've been saying since I got into this race around the values of peace and the need to be ever evolving with what's evolving in the Middle East is resonating with counselor Shannon I think it's it's really critical again I want to emphasize that the city council should and mayor should not be gatekeeping questions that are rightfully signatures are rightfully collected and should be going to voters it is if city counselors and leaders want to engage in that conversation you do that alongside neighbors in the conversations leading up to the election but we should not gatekeep the ballot thank you Joan thank you we have an obligation as city counselors to serve the common good and with this question of what goes on the ballot specifically we have an obligation to consider the common good a similar case to this was the rebels in South Burlington where there was a petition to put the rebel name on the ballot a name which was associated with racism and which had been changed because of its association with racism a lot of people didn't like that change they petitioned they wanted the the name put on the ballot for people to vote on and the council voted no on that and there was a court decision that upheld the council's right to make that decision I think that we have to consider impacts on our local community I think that we have to consider when a minority is being victimized potentially by a question that's on the ballot and I initially was planning to vote yes I'm putting that question on the ballot I decided not to because of the harm that I was persuaded would be caused in our local community to a local minority okay thank you very much so the next question has a word I've never seen before so if I say it wrong whoever wrote it please tell me the proper pronunciation the Israeli human rights organization that's a limb okay amnesty international and human rights watch have all declared Israel and apartheid state candidate Shannon why did you block the people of Burlington's democratic apartheid free referendum candidate Mulvaney Stanek will you publicly support the people's desire for an apartheid free referendum we'll start with Joan on this one thank you I think I just answered this question but when we have a question on the ballot we have to consider the common good we have to consider impacts to the minority and we have to consider if there's harm being done to our community by having this question on the ballot generally I think unless you have a good reason not to you should put a question on the ballot if it's petitioned but there are a lot of people in our community who explain to us how it would harm them I think we should listen to minority groups in our community when they're telling us that something is harmful to them and for that reason I voted no thank you candidate Mulvaney Stanek thank you I'm a big believer in yes and we can do multiple things at the same time we can respect democracy and to this question I believe I also adjusted already the referendum received enough signatures you should go right on the ballot and we can be having those critical conversations and should be helping as leaders in our city to make sure that all impacted people because multiple folks who've been harmed by this large conversation can be held with the care that they deserve to really work towards understanding we create more harm when we take sides on any particular issue so our job is to create a community of care community where we can dialogue and the sad reality is the divisiveness coming out of city hall for years now made for this issue to be even more heightened I mean it's heightened already given the international and long long history that could take hours to even go into but the fact that our city leaders have not been taking care of creating a community that's safe to have these critical conversations together led to a very a tinderbox situation in the hall and then later even more harm we can't even hold this critical conversation together so I would be the mayor who would understand that and really try to engage folks in safe ways where you can have small communities with dialogue I've actually reached out to leaders in the Jewish community and Palestinians to start building those relationships when I lose that's how I operate it's incredible incredibly important for me to continue to learn to have the humbleness to know I don't barely know all the complexities of this very long struggle but that's the kind of leadership again I will offer the city and model here in the city around building open relationships long before in crisis mode so that we can weather this together and come forward and and frankly model for our children how we should be having these critical conversations Joan you have one minute for a battle thank you I agree that we need to have these conversations but I don't think a binary ballot item is necessarily the best way to have those conversations I also have been engaging with people with both the Jewish community and those in support of Palestinian rights on this issue trying to figure out a way that we can have a productive conversation in our community that isn't harmful that's honest and where people don't feel threatened thank you Emma your question F-35s are being used in Israel's offensive against Gaza and F-35s in Burlington are causing healing learning mental health impacts due to the noise toxicity if you become mayor of Burlington what will you do to stop these impacts and take a stand against harming children how have your votes in the legislature and on the Burlington City Council demonstrated a willingness to hear from concerned citizens on issues of militarization here and internationally thank you there's a lot in that question so I will do my best to address that since the beginning of F-35s again because I am consistent in my values how I was raised I think it's incredibly important of how I look at the world and knowing that even on a local level we have an opportunity to build a community that has less violence and is committed to peace and so I've always been opposed to F-35s in the beginning long before I knew the public health impacts and the community impacts it would have not only on Burlington but our surrounding communities but just in the beginning fundamentally from a commitment to anti-war and demilitarizing our community and really understanding the military industrial complex and how much money and reallocation of resources should be going the opposite direction from the military the fact that the F-35s the cost alone is astounding to me when we struggle to fund our public schools when we struggle to fix our wastewater treatment plant it is a major it's there's so many elements that the F-35s to me represent which is a misalignment with what I think I know my core values are and I think the core values of most folks here in Vermont especially now speed up to today the dramatic impact on quality of life on public health on communities I lived in Winooski briefly when I first met my wife to make sure that we wanted to get married and I could not believe how loud it is in Winooski and how loud it still is even in the old North End and so this has a dramatic impact on the quality of life for not only children but they're hearing for for all folks actually for that matter not to not to mention the the rippling effects of trauma from folks coming from war-torn areas who are already making Vermont their home this is very real and has to be taken seriously there are other options there are other options for our National Guard this is not a binary choice we can work with our partners at the National Guard to seek a different mission we can work with our federal delegation to pressure it that way this is not a binary choice about jobs or or doing the right thing if we could we just don't want to lose the jobs and so I have been very consistent on this issue I've been proud to be so and I think this is a very important question for the mayor to see how they're going to partner with pushing for a different mission assignment for the National Guard thank you very much Joan thank you Susie I actually have never been a fan of the F-35s and I wrote the resolution that asked for a different mission that was passed by the city council in a nine-to-three vote we asked the secretary of the Air Force for a different mission that wouldn't have the negative impacts on our community that the F-35s have I worked at the Chase Mill for many years when the F-16s were flying and we couldn't talk on the phone when the F-16s flew over head and the F-35s are the same and worse so I'm not a fan of the F-35s however I am a fan of the airport I am a fan of supporting our economy here in Vermont and that requires the military contributing to our airport they contribute about three million dollars a year for fire services at the airport and the airport isn't really functional without that contribution from the military and that is the difficulty that we have and if it were as easy as you know just getting another mission that would have been done it isn't and I'd like to know I did make an effort to get another mission here I led the effort to get another mission here and I made sure that we got a response from the secretary of the Air Force and worked with our congressional delegation to get that response and I'd like to know I think the question was what what have you done in the legislature this is the you know our airport serves the Vermont and what has the legislature or you in the legislature and I don't know if this is appropriate to ask questions in this place I'll leave it to you okay I'll just I'll leave it at that thank you okay thank you okay now we have one minute free battle on either side Emma so I think resolutions can be very performative and that's the danger of resolutions what direct action an opportunity for direct action for me when it comes to the airport in particular is when a lease reopens which it just did a few months ago for an opportunity to ask these questions and to use the leverage of the city to to effect change and what instead happened was a very poor process that got rushed through and now we're in a 50-year lease where some of these larger questions around how we engage with National Guard how the money arrangement could have been maybe rethought I spent five minutes on Google and found other municipal airports have a different financial arrangement and that's in five minutes of trying to collect information if our if our leadership is committed to doing a resolution and Councilor Shannon if you're committed to doing resolutions to try to get a different mission we still have the same mission and why in the world do we do we not use that big opportunity with the airport lease reopening to really think about community benefits and impact and the future needs of our community. Thank you Joan. Thank you. What the reason we extended that lease was because we needed fifty two million dollars of investment in our airport including eight million dollars that was going towards energy efficiency that's what was at risk by not signing that lease could we have gotten something different. Yes something better I don't think that there's reason to believe that but I have yet to hear anything done in the legislature to address what is very much a regional issue. Yes since you directly addressed her she can respond. Well you asked me twice I'm going to give you an answer. So I pushed to try to get a hearing on F 35 resolution I was resisted by Democratic leadership I also took leadership because our legislative delegation does not have a working relationship with city government. We've passed eight nine eight eight or nine charters in the last two to three years and the airport commission composition was one of that which is sounds wonky but it's critical to give other towns a seat on our airport commission to have a little bit more say in the impacts on their community because it's not a regional airport structurally so this gives them a little more say and because no one else was taking that lead I took that lead and got that charter change across the finish line so when you ski could have a seat that's what I've done. It was it was a city council to put that charter change on the ballot got it passed on the ballot that added both both well South Bloomington was already on the commission and added when you ski to the commission. Okay thank you we'll move on to the next question. How are you going to ensure Burlingtonians money is divested away from Israel and war in general and toward care for residents and Joan I think you're first this time. I'm not aware what that's not something that we've been asked to do and I'm not aware what money in Burlington is invested at this time. I don't support taxpayer funds going to this war I support Bernie's position on that though I do support I support giving money to the Ukrainians to defend themselves and I think it's unfortunate that those two things are bound together Emma. So divestment is one tactic not to use organizer talk but it's one tactic and I would want to understand how much of Burlington resources are invested in I think it's a very important question because it is one of the levers that the impacts we can have on trying to affect change and so I want to know how much is actually invested I know if that's the only option I also want to know how the city has been working with the federal delegation which ultimately has the most influence on what the US government is doing or not and divestment is effective strategy sometimes and if that if there's a significant amount of funds then it seems worthwhile. When I was on city council I advanced a resolution to divest our money with the state of Arizona it feels like ancient history now but there was a legalized racial profiling happening for undocumented people in Arizona at the time and I wanted to make sure even if it was a small drop in the bucket that Burlington's money was not being spent in Arizona as an as a tactic to make sure that our statement was clear about racism and clear about the impact and the interconnectedness of Burlington with other parts of the country and the world. So I look forward the biggest piece about these big questions by the way these debate formats there's no dialogue with all of you so I would really welcome a chance to have a conversation after tonight to get into the weeds on all of this because that is as I said before I am humble enough to admit that I don't know all the details I don't know how much money is invested within the city government within Israel or other relationships I think we need to go deeper than that because it may be more that we need to be thinking about and I also think we need a critical eye when it comes to things like Ukraine because I'll say as a state legislator that's sailed through the legislature but we've never raised the same level of concern and funding and connection with black and brown countries around the world when they've been in struggle and connected to Burlington and I'm done and so I just want to say we can't pick and choose the struggles here we can't pick and choose if our values are really to be anti-racist if our values are to be anti-war then we have to have dialogue so we're not rushing these conversations through and working I really do mean I would love to work to meet with people so we're not doing this very bizarre way of answering these questions thank you. Joan you have one minute to rebut. Emma do you want to rebut? How we doing so far? We have two good candidates up here doing their best so we need to support them too. Okay as mayor what would you do to solve the Decker Tower situation? First of all I want to take a deep breath and what I said before my opening statement that there's suffering happening in Burlington there is deep suffering happening at Decker Towers and I'm deeply concerned because folks who are already struggling with a lot of the realities of economics right low and moderate income folks folks living with disabilities folks who are simply just trying to live their lives are in a deep crisis there and I feel the city has failed these folks the other larger reality is that we're facing a record number of unhoused people in Burlington and in the state when I say that these challenges are not Burlington's alone I mean that because the state failed with our motel emergency program and abruptly evicted hundreds of people into the streets of Vermont and where would you go I grip and bury I would not stay and bury if I run housed I would relocate to the biggest city because Barry has no grocery to store downtown and has no public transportation system be much harder to survive on the streets of Barry so now we're shouldering and holding this immense amount of suffering of Vermonters and where would you go when you have no access to public bathrooms even the dignity of these folks has been lost in this great struggle and of course they're finding their way to the places where you can try to survive frankly so a couple things I think this is I hope to get into more questions on this because we need to have short-term and long-term solutions to help folks who are unhoused they're all unhoused people are not the same there's they're not a monolith it's important to understand that we need a diversity set of options on the table to get people the emergency housing that they deserve and work with our partners in the 10 and their surrounding towns and on the state level to really figure this out reallocate money this is the funding priority right now it is not other other in the city and the state for that matter it should this is a for a long fire if you will to help these folks the other thing I want to end before before I run out of time is that the residents of Decker Tower deserved a much more dignified response from the city when I read that seven days article and read what our current mayor what how they treat it how he treated and chose to engage with folks in Decker Tower felt whiffs of classism it felt whiffs of deep disrespect and these folks deserve a partner in solving these solutions they're complicated they're not easy but they really truly deserve a much different response that's one of care and problem solving and saddling on up and saying I'm in this with you together thank you Emma June thank you I have met with the director of BHA about Decker Towers and heard the concerns from from his side I have gone to Decker Towers people have reached out to me from Decker Towers to ask for help I went there the night that they were voting to elect a resident council and I applaud them for for doing that to try and address the concerns with it to have a community approach to the issues that they face one of the issues that they face is that they have drug dealers inside the building and the drug dealers inside the building are allowing people to come into the building who are purchasing drugs and doing drugs in the building and Decker Towers can't keep them out because they are invited in by residents there so the management of Decker Towers has been very challenged to evict drug dealers from people who are causing problems inside they haven't been able to evict people in a timely manner it's taken it's taken too long and so people within the building are being victimized by this inability to get evictions which is a problem with Vermont's laws in addition they need police support for what is happening inside the building people are at risk people are they feel under siege all day long and they deserve that police response and Burlington is in a poorer position to give them that response because of our shortage of police officers we do need to partner with the residents and management of Decker Towers to address these issues as best as they can they have you know sent us notice that they are reliant on our police in order to have effective security and I'd like to be able to provide that to them thank you Emma I would just add that we need we need to have an eviction process that works for the folks causing the most harm in this case the folks who are dealing I would agree with that but in order to have a working a working system we have to acknowledge that we have partnerships that are not working right now between the court system between our police and between our city and so we have to have leadership that make sure that these these vital parts of our our system are actually working together to move people out of who are causing harm this repeatedly happens it's not just Decker Towers it has happened in the building next to me where I live in the old north end and we should be able to learn and bring partners together meet with the most impacted people to understand where this system can be improved upon and make sure most fundamentally that people are being heard and then the leaders including the police including the folks working in our court system and the city council need to work in service to our communities understanding that the impact this has on people's everyday lives I also know that the police are not the end all to any of these solutions this is really important one to repeat out of time so we'll come back to police I'm sure thanks I'll just say that one of the things that Decker Towers needs is a police response and we're not in a position to provide that response but as mayor I think that I am in the best position to recruit the officers that are needed not only by Decker Towers but other buildings that are just like Decker Towers having the same problems as Decker Towers unable to get the police response that they need property homeowners and and renters who have somebody who is threatening them trying to break into their apartment or their house not getting the police response that they need I have the endorsement of the police our police need to know that they are supported by the community when they're doing their job according to their directives and their training and I I think that we need to rebuild our police department as well as provide other services in our community thank you how can labor unions in our community be better supported by the legislature and by employers and as mayor how would you work to support unions in achieving their goals I've lost track of this first I think Jill was first um well the labor unions that I work closest with are the city unions and I do have the support of all four city unions one of the things that um you know they have said that all four of them have said is important to them is public safety and for that reason they are endorsing me as well as um I value workers I value their opinions and I've reached out to them to get their opinion about city policy and that's also been a factor in their support for me recently um we had the UV I'm sorry I don't remember the name of the union but the UVM um medical workers came to us explaining to us the really dire situation that they were in in long time workers unable to afford their housing and unable to meet their needs having full-time jobs for very long periods of time and I was a cosponsor on a resolution in support of those workers that they they should be treated with dignity that they should get wages um that allow them to support their families and uh you know I I think that we have increasing wealth disparity in this country um in the state and in our city and that this is a very significant problem we need more support for our workers and I am grateful to have their endorsement thank you Emma thank you did you know that Burlington has 22 unions 22 unions that represent thousands of workers in the city and the vast majority of them actually don't endorse in local elections I think that's an important fact to say and these these range from the NEA, the AFT, non-electrical workers, the Teamsters, VSEA, the Laborers, USCW which organized recently Ben and Jerry's and these are just some of some of these vital unions that help represent the working folks of Burlington and around I said this in my opening I have a very proud union history um not only am I the daughter of a 40-year state employee who is the president of the state employees union I on my own decided to dedicate my career to working people and in my first job at the peace and justice center when I was about 25 26 years old I led the Burlington Livable City Coalition that worked with the AFSCME local 1343 which is the city employees union and also the custodial and food service workers in the Burlington school system and the local NEA to actually establish livable wages they were not being paid anywhere near livable wage it was a two-year campaign multiple unions and coalitions that I led used consistent pressure on the school board and on the other employers to actually raise the wage, raise the wage so that folks could have dignified wages in our city and have one more opportunity to try to afford to stay and live here I went on to serve on the city's pension task force at 27 I barely knew what a pension was but I schooled myself on that to make sure I understood a critical concept of defined benefit versus defined contribution and that was really at the time because of the funding of the recession or funding issues during the recession a real chance that city workers would be moved over to a defined contribution plan that would have hurt city workers I fought back and I said we need a defined benefit plan that is what has been promised to these workers and then speed ahead the clock and I continue to fight for public pensions to protect that for state workers and teachers in the state legislature to your questions Susie though about how as mayor you make it easier for people on working people in unions you allow it to be an easier process to organize a union and I have introduced a house bill to do just that for public sector workers it simplifies the process so that folks can get their union and we can avoid employer retaliation in the process of an organizing drive but more importantly to mayor the mayor needs to support working people and that means standing up when there's not fair bargaining going on or when an employer unfortunately like UVM is trying to bust unions which they're trying to intimidate the current graduate students this is an important wall for a mayor who truly is dedicated to economic justice and defending economic diversity in our city needs to know that you have a role to play with bringing partners to the table and that includes the president of UVM and any other employer who's not respecting the right to organize not respecting fair bargaining not respecting people being able to even those without unions have a respectful workplace where they can be dignified earned wages and benefits and be able to stay and live here in Burlington thank you Emma Joan please thank you the municipality of the city of Burlington has four unions and the mayor's job is going to be most directly linked with those four unions the police union the fire union as food asked me which represents 300 members and workers in I think all departments of the city as well as the IBEW workers and these are the unions that are going to have a direct relationship with the mayor have negotiations with the mayor and these are the unions that have endorsed my candidacy thank you okay do we want to rebut that was the rebuttal you both rebutted okay good okay next question what do you see as the key issues between UVM and the city of Burlington I think I'm first let's go with that yeah I think it's okay all right it's hard to keep track um so some of the key sorry the question again is the key between UVM and the city yep right okay so some of the key issues I mean the very obvious one is the impact on housing it has been for years in our city but we obviously haven't gotten it right yet and the recent MOU did not go further far enough to pressure the the university to do the right thing and understand there's an important impact every time more housing is built here on campus one of those pieces is understanding the need to have a cap on student enrollment in order to because the math just frankly doesn't work when they increase housing they've oh in the last 10 years they can continue to increase the number of students they admit and as a state legislator I'm pretty concerned with the number of Vermont students that percentage continues to drop nothing against out-of-state students you're wonderful we welcome you here to Vermont but where is our commitment also Vermont students at what is supposed to be a land grant university I also think that it's important to understand the the where we need to go further around UVM's relationship a working relationship with the city there needs to be more transparency communication outside of the MOU that is ongoing to build a working relationship so that we can actually put even more things on the table to discuss as partners and not as adversaries that includes reopening a child care center here on campus they closed that three or four years ago as someone who struggled to find childcare that I felt was adequate safe and affordable just you know eight years ago my first kid went in and just four years ago when my other kid went in that impacts our community that is not a small thing but also looking at again I mentioned this before as an employer understanding that UVM has a lot of critical jobs for folks in our region one of the first people I met on my campaign was a new professional staff person here on campus who moved from Maine to start a professional job in his 30s at UVM I believe we have a master's degree he was denied three times a rental application to rent on his own and now has to live with roommates in order to afford on a UVM salary to live in Burlington and that shouldn't be the case with one of our largest employers and so again an opportunity to talk about employment and wage standards and understanding that this is a should be a symbiotic working relationship as the one of the largest employers on the hill but also the health of Burlington is as important to UVM as the health of UVM is important to Burlington so we have to do so much better in that regard thank you Joan please I think that the issue of the moment at least is the UVM MOU with the memorandum of understanding with the with the city UVM wants zoning changes and I was actually you know one of the first people to step up and say if UVM wants zoning changes this is our opportunity to start talking about enrollment how how this relates to our housing problem in Burlington the only kind of housing that you could build as far as I can think of that would actually make our housing problem worse is to build housing for freshmen and sophomores and then make them fend for themselves in the community junior and senior year to find housing that is completely unaffordable if it's available at all as the mom of a college student in a similar community she's not in Burlington but students are victimized all the time by this and I see the struggle of students parents families to find housing for their kids and UVM seems to be coming to the table now because I'm sure it's starting to impact their ability to enroll students at this point but we need to have a conversation that's beneficial not just to UVM and their ability to have the enrollment that they need to make UVM viable but also for our community to assure that there's housing not just for students but also for the faculty I've helped many faculty members find housing in this community and I know that when UVM is trying to hire people often they can't because of exactly what Emma just said they can't find housing in this community and I have stood up and said I'm not going to hold a really firm line on necessarily a cap on enrollment but at least demonstrate to us that you are going to make the situation better for our community that there will be there will be more students living on campus in affordable housing on campus freeing up some housing in the neighborhood for faculty faculty students who graduate and we have to look at the graduate students in this program as well. Emma please. I think the phases past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior and I think I got that right but I think when it comes to housing and again when they've built more housing I can't trust that UVM will actually will truly be committed to understanding its impact on the larger community without a student cap and so I think it's a really critical thing when you look at the data there are charts you can look at the student enrollment and how that's impacted in the area that I live in the old north end when I first bought my house 15 something years ago there were never students in our part of the city but it shows how much the how much of the affordability crisis is also impacting students that they're getting pushed further and further into into deeper parts of the city and the afford and the rents that these students are being asked to paid for it's not just about faculty and staff I'm also really mindful about the students both on campus for that matter and off campus because these students especially those who are low and moderate income low and moderate income students for generation students it's hard enough with how much it costs to pay the tuition here but on top of that we're creating even further harm for folks to start off their careers with being so much debt and I would even I've even heard stories where some students are part of our on house population that is the stark reality and so for UVM not to be able to understand the severity of that and to be able to come to the table with a deep commitment of fixing that and working with the city to do so to me that's where we've got to start we've got to understand to start with what are truly our values and commitment and it has to be just students to staff and the greater community here in Burlington thank you Joan thank you I should clarify I do support a cap but it's more than a cap because the MOU is only five years and we need to have a longer view the question I have asked is what is the long-range plan for UVM because we need to be looking beyond five years giving them a zoning change goes way beyond five years whatever it is that they're going to build is going to have a life way beyond five years so what is that long-term plan and what are UVM's long-term plans both for undergraduate and graduate students much of this conversation has really just been about the undergraduate students but what about graduate students they need a place to live too and I know that the part of the plans we've been presented are housing for for graduate students but we still need to have kind of a bigger picture and I think really a more open dialogue you know I want UVM to be successful Burlington needs UVM to be successful UVM adds you know an abundance of vibrancy to our community and we want UVM to thrive but I also share a concern about the shift from from local students to more and more out-of-state students my family members were some of those out-of-state students but we do need to be providing the services to our local Vermont students as well thank you I'm noticing that there's a number of people standing in the back we do have some seats in the front here and also some seats in between if people who move over a little bit they could be right on the end there so please have a seat or not you could see great from here up to you though completely up to you okay so we're in now the realm of UVM and the city so from your point of view as a future mayor how could UVM take a more active role in addressing the challenges Burlington is facing including a shortfall of affordable housing a shortage of child care continued cuts to public transportation the opioid crisis and the increase in violent crime there is a lot in that question and I don't think I have the answers to all of it but I'm certainly open to what the suggestions of the community are I haven't been running for mayor because I have all of the answers but that I do believe that together we will find the answers to speak to some of that I I think that one of the real opportunities between UVM and the city and the region is with transportation I you know UVM has Katma and we have GMT but really these are systems that could be better integrated and at times people in the community have been able to use the Katma buses at other times we can't use the Katma buses to have an integrated transportation system we should all be able to use each other's buses to get where we need to go and I think we'll have all of us will have better bus service if we're if we're able to do that in terms of safety and security I think that we also have a common interest here and you know we that could also be part of our MOU process to look at safety and security in the city in the area around UVM how can we work together better to address that problem and as far as the opiates there are there's lots of research that is done at an institution like UVM and the medical center I think that there are answers to our problems there we need to be reliant on data we need to be reliant on research and we are in kind of a new age with our opiate epidemic as the epidemic has shifted from heroin to now fentanyl and xylazine I think a lot of the data that we have is based on heroin and now this is changing and what do we need to do to address those changes and how can UVM be a part of that research that we need also we're looking at safe injection sites and that would be a pilot program so we need a good way to evaluate the success of that program and that's something else that UVM may be instrumental in helping us evaluate data around that in terms of not just how many deaths do we prevent but how many people do we get into treatment what are the impacts on the greater community thanks thank you Joan Emma please thank you Councillor Shannon I'm glad that you brought up transportation because I've been actually talking about the real need for us to have a more vibrant and comprehensive transportation system that can actually make it work in Burlington since the beginning of this campaign and I've thought about this more deeply as I've been talking about this since the beginning because we see those empty buses go up and down East Avenue elsewhere and no I know that that's one of those very smart partnerships that we can be leveraging more and we need to make sure that this transportation system is workable for people that it covers the gaps that we currently have that it continues to be free but it also needs to be easy to use I met with someone whose kid goes to the same elementary school that my kid goes to it takes an hour and a half to go from basically old East N down to the center of the old North N on the current bus system in the morning that is not usable for anyone so while we have to partner we have to be smart around really creating a whole hub and network that partners not only with the UVM but other smart transportation systems that can really bring the creative imaginative thinking that we need to have a vibrant public transportation system that obviously helps climate but it also helps people get out of cars quality of life and helping working people at the same time I also think there's a safety question within that and you know it's larger than what's going on in Burlington I know that on campus that some of the for students in particular issues of campus safety related to sexual violence and assault has been a growing concern here for years now and so I've appreciated how UVM has in some regards trying to really support these students and more can always be done but that is a piece of this larger community safety conversation when I talk about the need to understand how comprehensive and wide sped it is I also appreciated I've talked to the leadership of the UVM police and I appreciate their approach in general to community safety with harm reduction and understanding it's not just about the numbers of police about having a comprehensive safety system that has social workers has the right kind of professionals responding to the calls so that we can really have the kind of system that you all deserve and I know that they have some really great things to offer so I imagine that's another place for the Burlington police department to learn from other law enforcement leaders around best practices and being responsive to the kind of safety system we truly deserve and need in this city so that everyone can truly be safe and feel safe here thank you Emma Joan please rebuttal no rebuttal Emma additional minute for rebuttal I would just also I would just also emphasize that I do agree with Councilor Shannon and I've been talking about how important is to have better meaningful community engagement throughout the city and I truly mean that as an organizer I know that when we when I talk about community benefits in all these partnerships be it UVM or elsewhere in the city that we need to hear from you but your engagement needs to be feel meaningful and where we have to be able to act upon the stuff that you're telling city leaders to do and that's not been working now I think we need to completely relook at how we engage folks have it be predictable how it have it be accessible looking at our MPAs the neighborhood planning assemblies giving them an update they're as old as I am at this point and so we really you all deserve to have a system and a city government that is responsive so that we know what your priorities are whether it be about budgeting or what we should be doing UVM or how we should be handling housing developments like city place your voices truly do matter and I want you to feel like city hall is your city hall that is a safe place to engage that it is that your city leaders are going to listen to you and not just listen to folks who are sort of the echo chamber of folks who agree with us because that's an important thing for us to model as leaders and for for us to build those relationships I talked about before where we can work through difference thank you there's a large number of faculty students and staff who are struggling with affordability how will you address this as mayor I think I kept track last time if I think I'm first okay okay so I've said it before residents of all income levels deserve to be able to work and live in Burlington and we're losing that we've already lost people who can't afford to stay here and so I think we need to have solutions that really look at both renters and homeowners in our city to make sure we're moving with a real commitment to affordability one of those ideas I've talked about since the beginning is really looking at our local tax system and making sure that it is equitable so looking at adding an income sensitized component to our local tax system our local municipal tax much like our state education tax system that would be that would benefit low and moderate income folks it would also benefit folks on fixed incomes I would love for my parents to move to Burlington but there's no way they could sell their house and bury and afford anything here without something like that in place I also know that we have a lot to do with expanding our grand list so that there's not a disproportional amount of impact on residential property taxpayers like there is today and anyone who's been here long enough knows the last reappraisal process really revealed a lot of inequities within our system so we need to look at this in a comprehensive way and lastly just on renters since over 60 percent of folks in Burlington are renters rent stabilization is a critical thing for us to get our hands around and what I mean by rent stabilization is really working with the property owners who are landlords who want to do the right thing who are doing the right thing right now to keep rents low and stable and not looking to make a profit housing should not be a commodity when I say housing as a human right I stand up for really making that a reality for renters so that folks have a transparent process around eviction that's the just cause eviction piece I've been still trying to push through the legislative process folks need that dignity and that fair process and housing as we also work on cooling off the dramatic increase in rents we can do this and more but we have to really be honest around what it will take to put those structural affordability measures in place in Burlington thank you Emma Joan please the thing that is most driving unaffordability in Burlington and in Vermont is housing costs and I don't think people even fully appreciate just how much housing cost has has gone up especially people who are home owners and have been able to stabilize their housing costs but I will tell you that from 2019 to 2020-24 housing costs for people who need mortgages who need to finance the bulk of their purchase on a house the housing cost has gone up about 300% the price of housing has only gone up 85% so for people who have cash the price has gone up 85% but for people who need mortgages it's gone up about 300% and that that has also impacted renters because that's also the cost of financing a multifamily property that somebody would then put up for rent and when people are purchasing properties we often see the prices escalate when a purchase happens so I think that people that we need to have more home ownership in the city only about 30% of Burlingtonians live in owner occupied units and that might be a condominium or a single family home but the best way for people to stabilize their housing cost is through home ownership which is inaccessible to way too many people I support making changes we have a condominium conversion ordinance that prevents prevents apartments from converting to condominiums and I support changing that so that people will be able to buy the apartment that they live in and we might be able to come up with programs or grants that also help them with the down payment which is the greatest barrier to doing that but people of color have been denied the opportunity to build wealth through home ownership for generations we need to overcome that and we need to provide more opportunities for people to get into home ownership stabilize their housing costs thank you thank you June Emma please thank you Joan I appreciate that last point because I was going to talk about the disproportional impact on a hot housing market that is so uninforbable to marginalize folks that includes black indigenous people of color it includes queer folks it includes folks who live with disabilities we know that these folks just economically have less means about them and often have to do use financing even if they can find their way to home ownership and also find a home but I think that the city needs to acknowledge the fact that we have I believe I have this number right fact check me I know I'm at the university we have literally five black homeowners in the city of Burlington five five and so I think we've heard this on the state on the state level to understand that this is a byproduct of generational lackability to build generational wealth racism in within how we've done zoning and housing including single family zoning which has been in Burlington for decades now we're slowly starting to change that with the neighborhood code process that's underway but in order to it's almost it is a reparation active actually think consciously as a city about how we can partner and build upon a program that CHT Champlain Housing Trust has started to actually find meaningful pathways for BIPOC folks to actually find their ways into home ownership thank you Emma Joan please thank you yet that is a great program that Emma just referenced with CHT and it's been oddly enough that the fair housing laws have actually worked against some of these initiatives which is something that we have to overcome I've tried to work with lenders to get more programs like that but I think we need to you know start with that CHT program build on that as an example and also we really need more housing is the is the bottom line we need more housing we need more inventory it isn't just the costs but where are you going to find it and with the increased with increased in interest rates people who are in housing can't even leave that housing and move to other housing because they would be paying a much higher even if the price of the house was the same they'd be paying much more on a monthly basis because of the cost of the mortgage so there are several initiatives that I have been to support above including the south end innovation district which will add 800 to 1000 units in what's currently a parking lot in the south end and I think we need we need to find more opportunities like that thanks okay next question how will you ensure that the democratic process is respected going forward including both for public forum and putting ballot measures on the ballot the city council allows for public forum which is part of state law state law requires that the public be allowed to weigh in on matters that are on our agenda and the city council has always allowed a much more robust conversation not limited to just things on that are on the ballot and the council rules allowed for 30 minutes of public forum so that we could get to the rest of our business more recently the city council changed that because we weren't very good at adhering to 30 minutes ever and so we decided let's be a little bit more realistic about how much public forum we will have so we extended that to we had a rules committee the rules committee which was a tripartisan committee agreed to we should extend this to 60 minutes it got to the council floor we extended it to 90 minutes and sometimes we still have more people who would like to speak to us than than that I think the Burlington city council listens to more members of the public than any public body in the state of Vermont but there does come a point in time when we have to do the business of the city while we are still awake we all have other full-time jobs the meeting last Monday night did not have a lengthy public forum and it lasted seven hours a continuous seven hours of meeting that is a lot there are many ways for you to voice your your opinions to the city council you can email us you can put a letter on the agenda I encourage people to do that there comes a point when really everything that needs to be said has been said just not everybody has said it and so I have been supportive of staying to the 90 minutes that we agreed to and I think that does allow for an abundance of opinions at the table thanks thank you Joan Emma please thank you I know we can do better I know we can do better it's the way that first of all the way that we have set up the process for some very big decisions especially in the last eight months I don't know if y'all noticed but it feels like some very big decisions are moving like a freight train at 100 miles an hour through our process and so we can and should be slowing down the process and expanding out the opportunities for folks to engage beyond an action-packed public comment period that's tying with two minutes and gives people no really meaningful engagement with their city counselors in the process itself when folks if you think about it you know the decision has already been made so we have to slow down and expand this process I mentioned before around the MPAs being looked at and really creating a more meaningful place for that engagement and most importantly for city leadership to be listening to all of you and beyond that we go through big projects all the time there should be a predictable and user friendly way that folks know despite what city department is how to engage and provide feedback especially if it's in your own neighborhood I would say as someone with small kids I have found it really hard in the last eight years to get to a city council meeting and I have all the economic privileges I could hire a babysitter I could bring the kids I guess if necessary though I don't recommend it with my four year old he would grab all the microphones and talk endlessly but truly I mean we have to make sure that we also understand even now though I don't think it's working so it's only the folks with the most privileges able to even show up in con toys to provide that public comment that's time down to two minutes it's not great democracy right now and you all deserve better as an organizer I have plenty of ideas but as a mayor I will recognize when I remember the days I was a city counciler it is an impossible job and I work in partnership with the council to work on finding ways to have workable agendas people do have to work outside that job supporting folks to get the information they need again expanding and slowing down the process so you all have time to actually engage with your constituents so you can make the best decision and not default to only talking to the handful folks who are the folks that are the easiest to reach right for us to really do better we have to recognize the system right now needs a lot of work thank you Emma Joan please I will say I think we that it is right to rely on other avenues of accessing the process other than the public forum and the city does try sometimes more successfully than other times to have a variety of public engagement opportunities I think we have to be careful about how we define privilege because I will say we hear from people from all walks of life at city council we have heard from people who are living uncheltered we hear really from everybody but the people who are most challenged actually are folks who have young children at home and while we might be privileged in certain ways it's awfully hard to get to a city council meeting when it's dinner time and bedtime and you have all of those struggles it's also hard to serve as a city council when you have a young family and this should be a job that's accessible to more people so I think we have to keep that in mind as well thanks thank you Joan Emma please so I I define privilege as not only economics but also when folks hold a marginalized identity and also recognizing that these city council meetings have become so heated and divisive harm is constantly happening to folks and it is not a safe place that even if you're able to return that you probably want to return I've heard unfortunate stories around because things have gotten so tense and harmful there that you'll be standing next to someone who's disagreeing with you on the issue and when especially these underpinnings of issues of racism and issues of transphobia that have gone by the council just even in the last year it becomes a very hostile place to even express your views not everyone is showing up to that room with the same ability to even communicate without being activated from prior trauma and as a member of the LGBTQ plus community for example I have not felt held or protected in that space when folks are saying transphobic things or homophobic things I think the city needs to do a lot more around allyship and that means again more than performative actions but real action to make sure they're creating that livable community for people and taking again the tension and the harm out of that city hall environment and doing the repair work that we need for folks who've been harmed so they can feel like they can come back and to engage their city and have those safe spaces to have that those conversations of understanding and healing okay so now we're going to have two minute summations on each side and since Emma started off I'm going to ask Joan to start sorry I asked for your vote as mayor if you share my vision to improve public safety by rebuilding our police department diversifying safety services and partnering with others to provide the needed social safety net to meet community health mental health housing and treatment needs we need a place to live we need to assure that everyone has shelter and that they can move from shelter to affordable housing supportive housing or supervised housing as needed we are at our best as a community when we take care of one another together we can celebrate our fabulous city and commit to helping our most vulnerable but as a community we all need safety I am the candidate who has the endorsement of all four city of Burlington unions representing all the union workers employed by the city our city workers are united in their concerns about public safety functional governance and the health and well-being of our staff and community housing and affordability are critical issues facing all sectors we need more housing full stop it is the number one issue faced by all employers and most workers in our city I have supported increased heights downtown the south end innovation district transformation from a parking lot to a neighborhood and the neighborhood code allowing more housing in every neighborhood in the city we also need to encourage the elimination of duplicative regulation that adds to the cost of housing at the state level I want to partner with the university of Vermont to improve public transportation and provide housing for students and faculty there is a mere total lack of housing inventory for students and faculty that is within walking and biking distance to downtown and campus we need UVM to come to the table to help us solve this problem not only by building housing but assuring that more housing is being built than enrollment is increasing for the long term I pledge to you that I will continue to be a steward of our great lake to continue on the road map to net zero and to implement climate resiliency strategies in our city I thank you all I look forward to the opportunity to partner with you on our shared community issues thank you June Emma please thank you I want to thank the organizers and all of you for coming out tonight to hear yet another debate on this very important mayoral campaign I have a vision for Burlington I have a vision for Burlington that is inclusive one that values and prioritizes economic diversity and knows that Burlington is a union town and a union town values its workers I have a vision for Burlington where our city becomes a leader on responding to the climate emergency and moves with the urgency that truly a mom of two small kids can only move with knowing that the reality and how Burlington is going to look in 10 years will still be dramatically different than how it looks today there is a lot at stake and we have to be bolder and more innovative if we're really going to truly make a difference on our impact on climate I have a vision for a healthy and safe community for everyone who lives here and visits here we have to respond to the community safety issues of the comprehensive system that includes short and long-term solutions that will actually work and not cause more harm police and social workers and force responders and medical professionals and community members need to be part of these critical conversations one entity will not solve this in the end I also have a vision that brings our community back to itself this means having all of you feel meaningfully heard and engage within your city in productive ways that can truly solve our big challenges together I also have a fresh perspective with new ideas and new energy that Burlington desperately needs I understand how to solve complex problems I know how to dialogue with the community especially folks who do not necessarily agree with me this is a much needed change from the last 12 years in Burlington and Burlington deserves better we need a millionaire who knows how to bring people together to find solutions regardless of political labels we need a mayor with unique skills of local and state policy experience and relationships and the know-how to engage people and really listen we need a mayor who uses her values to lead which includes a clear commitment to working people marginalize folks and verminters who are truly suffering on our streets I will be that mayor I ask for your support thank you so much so I am noticing with joy we have two women running for mayor let's have a big hand for both of them thank you all have a good night