 Hey, what's up guys drew here that anxiety guy com new guest today my friend Andrew DeLuca from all the way from sunny Las Vegas How sunny is it out there? Like it's got to be better than here. It's like I think 60, so it's pretty nice doable like zero here today in New York, but I'm not complaining because What's going on the Midwest is ridiculous. So yeah, I'll pass on the negative 50 winchill. Yeah, I've been hearing What is up with that? So anyway for those of you who are in the facebook discussion group, you know, Andrew He makes some really awesome awesome like progress and exposure videos that are like so incredibly helpful to so many people And I thought we would chat for like a half hour. So today we'll talk about kind of where you've been where you're going Where you at we'll take some questions that were in the group And of course as always if you're not in the group follow the link in the description wherever you happen to be watching And join the group it's a good good group of people, right? So I think the reason why it's useful to to do this and I really appreciate you taking 30 minutes of your day to do it Is you know people can listen to me all day long and I've been kind of in recovery mode for years and years and years And then we had Jackie who's also kind of on the other side But it's nice to hear from people who are in it You know so in the middle of it like you are and the fact that you're willing to share is like awesome So I cannot thank you enough for this. Yeah for being so transparent So willing to share and all that stuff so Give us like the readers digest version like where did you start give me like the the two minute version of like What's your story? What's your story dude? Tell me your life. Tell me your life two minutes though. All right All right, um, you know, honestly, I had panic attacks as a kid, but I didn't really know what they were. Um, I was uh Anytime like, uh, I would get into like some really like bad trouble. I was a little shit as a kid I I would have panic attacks and again, I didn't know what I what what they were I'd just be really fearful and then fast forward into Uh shortly after I graduated high school. I had a really bad panic attack on the highway here in Las Vegas We have a bridge system called the spaghetti bowl And I was on the highest bridge and it is a very narrow bridge and I just hit like just Just like it was like a parking lot and I'm up on this high bridge and I just went into a panic attack I didn't know what was going on. I remember I called my mother and I'm freaking out and Slowly but surely that got the ball rolling on avoidance. Um, I start I one immediately avoided that bridge started avoiding the highway Uh, they kind of led up for a while. Um, I moved to Washington state for a short time and then I came back home I was good for about a year and then uh, it just started happening constantly Um, so I started avoiding going across town that it was going, you know halfway through town all of a sudden, um I just could only get to work and back and then the uh, the market crashed and everything happened and I uh Uh, I actually lost my job and I was unemployed for like eight months And I wasn't leaving the house and I became completely sedentary or not sedentary. Yeah, completely just unable to leave You know, and then I just kind of became an agoraphobic, you know, occasionally I could leave I could do small things very very nearby Um, I just I was missing everything. I missed so many events birthdays weddings. Um, I actually miss Christmas uh, which is a huge thing in our family and uh I ultimately had to move to my parents side of town I actually live in the same neighborhood as them now just so I would stop missing family events And then uh, yeah, and then just before I joined this group, you know, again I said in a video I was a content agoraphobic, you know, I run my own business out of my house doing those things um, I had a panic attack that was just super bad and um, or super bad the way I reacted to it And it just scared the crap out of me and threw me into this dark whirlwind like just sensitized state and uh, I was lost for months now. It's just like a lot of people in the group and then uh, uh, ultimately I found uh, you and your channel and uh, then joined the group and Um, had a couple very brief conversations through the comments with you and just said all right This is what I got to do and I got started and here I am now And you're you're much further down the road. So you wouldn't I mean you wouldn't necessarily call yourself recovered right now You're in the process No, no, I mean I'm I I would say that I'm pretty recovered from that sensitized state that I was in Okay But the agoraphobia part I don't consider myself an agoraphobic anymore just because I'm not avoiding the way that I used to I'm definitely not homebound anymore. I'm I'm out I've been out three times today. I'll probably go out another three times this afternoon Um, I'm still working kind of like within about a two and a half three mile radius, but you know Every single day is is you know, I have exposure work where it's I'm going out and I'm facing some fear other ones It's not really exposure. It's more just kind of continuing to go out and being as normal as possible Um But I mean if you remember when I first joined this group we're talking My first real exposure was going to the gas station, which I can throw up baseball and hit it from my house And that was terrifying And now now I'll go in there I go in there every single day I've actually made friends with the clerks and I'll go in there just to hang out and talk and you know Like Jay and Simon bob I kind of just Love it Exactly. I'm just sitting out there. I started out as Simon bob. I didn't say a word when I went in there now I'm a little bit more like Jay and you know Exactly I will pay for video if you're doing the song Exactly That's awesome. So, I mean obviously from a tiny little You know 100 yards a couple hundred yards if you could throw you know throw baseball at the gas station to now A couple of miles a few miles I mean that that's a you know 500 percent Increasing your rare radius for sure And I'm guessing that like at this point Maybe you're in two and a half or three miles But if you had to go to five miles today Way easier To do those extra two miles then what's through those first 200 yards to the gas. Absolutely six months ago, whatever that was That and I've gotten so much better at dealing with anticipatory anxiety that now I mean Most of the time how I dealt with that is if I felt any anxiety like I got up I'm like, oh, I got to go to the store. They are going to do this. I was just like, but you know what? I'm going to go right now. I'm just going to do it because I don't want to be thinking about it all day And now I've now I've kind of learned to just you know what If the thoughts come up that oh, this is going to be hard. It's going to be terrible It's just like, you know, I'll just deal with it when I get to it But right now I've got other things to do. I'm going to take care of that and then If it comes it comes if it doesn't it doesn't yeah That's that focused thing that we talk about a lot So as you went into the fear I'm guessing and they correct me if I'm if I'm wrong here But as you went into the fear and sort of unmasked it and knew that you don't have to really be afraid of those feelings anymore It becomes a whole lot easier to take those thoughts. Like, oh, no, I got to go to the mall today And like just say well Effet I will think about that later because you're not so You know, like you might know like well, I'm going to be uncomfortable doing that, but it's not this terrifying Spectrum in front of you anymore. Yeah Yeah, it's just you know, I kind of I know what to expect especially considering your practicing so much. Yeah, you know, I've I've just I know kind of what I'm going to feel. I kind of know what thoughts are going to be there. I know what's going to happen and um now it's kind of Automatic like when those thoughts come up. I just I keep going The only thing that I sometimes have to be mindful of is just make sure I'm not white knuckling it like I'm not clenching heart I'm not uh A thing with me is in the beginning I used to carry pills with me And I used to I used to always have like I'd have pills in my pocket and I have my phone in my hand Now it's just now. It's just like, you know what? I don't I haven't carried the pills in months Sometimes even for more practice. I'll leave the phone in the car purposely just like I don't I don't need it I've never called for help So why why hold on to the crutch? Just yeah, I don't I don't need it And on top of it if it kind of intensifies it and makes it more Well, then, you know, it's like adding five more pounds to the bar. Well, you know, let's let's do some work Let's get it done. Right, right exactly And that's that that misconception that says I have to have the phone So that I can call for help when I need it. But in reality, you never really need it help Like even even on the that bridge Even on the spaghetti ball, right? Like you really didn't need to call for help I mean Obviously makes sense that you did everybody would and that's their circumstances your first time blah blah But in the end you could probably look back in retrospect and say well, even if I didn't call for help I just sat there you would have still been here today Yeah, if anything I if anything if I had just Probably not picked up the phone if I had just kind of let it go let it do it Let it do its thing and then kind of just what the hell was that that was really weird You know And the smart move would have been if I had actually like talk to people about it and figured out what it was Maybe I wouldn't have let it escalate so much. But you know Make sense make sense and getting back to the course like right away going right back to that place Yeah, you know But hindsight is 2020 and so many people in this situation our situation would say that same thing like oh finally knew But the problem is we don't know so you had to learn So let's talk a little bit before I'm going to take any questions because people ask them really good questions If they were they were hoping you would answer but let's talk a little bit about what it took Like to go from the point where you sort of understood what you had to do And then actually like really buying into it and doing it and I'm guessing not a long time because of the It seems your personality type was sort of suited for this kind of thing I'm guessing from what I know of you But you know, did you struggle most people the biggest obstacle people seem to run into is like well You're much braver than me or you're much stronger than me and I don't believe that to be true So what was the process where you're like? Oh, well, I hear you with this guy Not necessarily me but anything the Claire weeks books. I hear what everybody's saying But this is how did you get from like that sounds effing crazy? I'm supposed to go into the fear to like I'm doing this like this. That's the process if you go sister so one I think I I imagine a lot of people had my frame of thought was You know for 10 years. All I did was I kind of just I always Fantasized about the day that I no longer had this issue. I fantasized like I have plans like oh, yeah a couple months from now I'll be fine. I'll be doing things. It was kind of like I was expecting to just one day wake up And it wasn't there like a switch was going to go off in my brain and everything was going to be fine And in that 10 years, you know, I had attempted to do some things with no Plan in place. No structure. No help. No idea what the hell I was doing It was just I have to go and do this and I would white knock let the whole time and be terrified But then I'd get home and it was like I was on reprieve like if I had to go five miles Then for like the next week two miles. I was like I could do this. This is nothing But then eventually I would start to panic and kind of revert back What really shook me was Being in that dark dark sensitized state I was in there one other time before and that was when I was coming off of ssr Is that I was on for a very short period of time and I think kind of like you I just I had to go through that withdrawal and it was a nightmare But I knew it was medicine. So I kind of understood what was happening eventually I came out I was fine for a while this time This wasn't anything medicaid medication. This was just absolute hell and I was at the point of just absolute desperation. I didn't want to feel like this anymore and I watched two of your videos stand out. They're still my all-time favorites is The one of them You were on your bike And you talk about you just had a panic attack and what you did The second one was probably my favorite is the one where you're just having an honest chat I think you were driving to your office and you just said Fuck this. I don't want to live like this anymore and that that That really just kind of came to me and I was just I just That just really hit home and I remember the first probably three to four weeks I would play that video like it was like my my workout music. It was like my psych up video like all right I'm gonna watch this sometimes I played on my ipad while I was driving um and then That's just where it came and it's just you know Then I started kind of stacking those victories of you know It took me a couple weeks until 7 11 was no longer an issue And then it was like okay the grocery store a much bigger place big parking a little bit further And that that took you know a couple more weeks till it kind of became something easier um And and that's what it is. I'm not I haven't gotten to the point where I can just you know, okay today. I can drive You know, I'm gonna add another half mile. I'm not making big giant leaps um I'm allowing myself to Basically first time I do something. It's usually a panic attack or super high anxiety and then I let it um I let it become something that's tolerable And then it's not that's a no big deal and when it's a no big deal That's when I say okay time for the next step and sometimes it takes a few days. Sometimes it takes like a week or two Well, I'm guessing those steps are shorter now Like maybe yeah, it took three to three weeks and I remember you're posting your videos of like Struggling a bit in the supermarket, but yeah, you know I'm guessing that now each each successive leap forward or step forward is a shorter time duration Maybe only a few days You're not going to be stuck there for three weeks before you can do the next half mile or whatever Yeah, no, no, I'm going quicker I'm actually really looking forward to a couple of exposures I got planned for over the next couple of days because it's finally going to be something more entertaining than Going to buy in chicken nuggets You know, sometimes I get so boring. I've heard people say that too like I remember just driving around my neighborhood like this is horrifically mind-numbingly boring But you just you got to do what you got to do So it's nice that you can have an actual target like to maybe an event to go to or something you really want to do or You know, I get I get totally get it Well, that's good. It's a super good story and I it's just it's just on as an aside It's so strange to hear somebody say like, you know, you're listening to me as like almost like pump up He was like, I'm just I'm never going to get used to that But I'm glad I'm glad it helped Let's um, we've been at it for what about 15 minutes or so. So let's let's take some questions Yes, I'm gonna my screen is over here. So I'm not being rude. I'm just going to read Um, we had about 15 or so questions which I think were great from from the group Molly asked like, how do you say positive when setbacks happen? Like you always seem so positive and you look you're like a glass half full kind of guy, which it seems like you are It's awesome. Um, um, honestly, it's something new. I'm trying on trying to be super optimistic as much as I can um Honestly, it's not your natural or hasn't been in the past. I'm guessing Not always I'm a I'm a very funny person. At least that's what I'm told I I like to have fun, but I get you know, I get down I get depressed but staying motivated like The last couple of days I've been very anxious throughout the day. I have moments where I'm not so anxious and What keeps me motivated is one I don't want to go back I don't want to start taking steps backwards because I I I did that for you know 10 years to take one step forward two steps back. I'm not that guy anymore. I will not let that happen that and Kind of as you start to get out there and you start to do more and more and more it motivates you to want to do more Because you know, it it becomes something that you're terrified of doing. It's starting to feel kind of exciting like it's Kind of like you're you know, I don't want to say a sadist, but you're just like you get You kind of you enjoy the burn like when you work out you're like, uh, this is going to be terrible But it's also going to be so good so Well, because there's a result at the end you see a result Exactly Exactly Yeah, which is great So I so that that's good And I think that speaks to that thing you were talking about that like I refuse to live like this anymore at some point There's you make that decision that says okay I'm having a rough couple of days because I'm feeling anxiety But you also have a really good grip on the fact that like that's okay It's it's not a setback because you're anxious The subject if just retreated back in and stopped that would be set back That and then yeah, well people consider a setback is you know, like I what I haven't been anxious for like a couple weeks And now all of a sudden I'm anxious again Well, the way I look at especially when it comes to my exposures is years and years ago when I didn't work for myself I was that Jerk that would come to work sick because my thought was well I could stay at home and feel like crap and watch the prices right or I can get paid to feel like crap I'd rather get paid to feel like crap So that's yeah, so that's with my anxiety. It's like well if I'm going to be anxious I might as well still do something I might as well still get out there and It doesn't matter Do I want to feel like crap at home or do I want to feel like crap and still do something In a way get paid to be anxious like you could be anxious Productively as opposed to passively just sitting and waiting to not be anxious. So That's good. That's a great answer. Let's move on to what let's see Laura. I watched yesterday Watched you and Billy's this video What's your take what's Andrew's take on formulating an action plan? Do you have a written plan or you just think of a challenge and do it right away? Like let me just see I was digesting some hard truths why she avoids writing a plan But so I mean you do seem to be very methodical about this you know, so I have Certain destinations that I want to get to one the biggest thing that I'm not doing to myself is I'm not putting myself on a timeline for like some Big big giant goal. I'm not trying to put myself on a timeline even for smaller goals It's kind of like I will get there every day that I don't stay home is a victory every day that I go out Is a victory I get bigger victories when I push and go a little bit further So right now There's things that I want to do northeast south and west of me um And I kind of just I try to make sure that I'm going different directions. I think you said in like a video with billy like how You could go to the same place, you know 50 times and all of a sudden you take a different way and it's all of a sudden really hard again That's a new thing Yeah, and I was feeling that so I Again, I know there's certain landmarks that I want to hit So I kind of Do smaller steps to get me there. I don't have like a written plan. I don't have a timetable um I just I know where I want to go and I kind of just have it down. Okay. These are the steps I need to take to get there Yeah, and it seems like you have a good grip on As opposed to saying well, I need to get to like, you know a night's game Like I'm just going to do that next week. Well, you're you're building it bit by bit to get to that As opposed to giant exposures, you know every once in a while You're doing little things every single day. Exactly. Yes I think I'll chime in a little bit, you know on that question Like some people do better with a written plan Some people do better with a therapist giving them a plan this week You're going to do this the nest in this like homework, but it's kind of an individual thing I would say some people can just keep it up here, you know, some people wing it Yeah, so I think you're doing it right though So adam asks two questions three questions a second two questions actually one How do you know that you're doing it right and at what stage does the penny drop? I'm not sure with that. I'm not sure the the penny drop thing But how do you know that you're doing it right? Like how did you know you've done some you've tried some stuff before So how did you know like oh wait now now? This is right. This is working now Well in the beginning again the years that I was kind of dealing with some I own no Don't youtube no, you know that anxiety guy or anything else It was I would go out until I felt like crap and then I would revert back then I'd go out and if I felt like crap I'd come back and I I found a recording from dr. Claire weeks where Something like that and that's the way he approached his exposure Is he would go out as far as he could and the moment he felt panic he would retreat And he would just kind of keep pushing he got to the point where funny enough He flew all the way to las vegas and then one day he went to the bank had a panic attack And just like oh my god. My life is over went back and became agoraphobic again And it was like well he didn't learn anything because he was scared I knew that I was doing it right because Dr. Claire weeks you at basically everyone in this group says it's gonna suck and it's supposed to suck um the video you did with jackie was so helpful because Just hearing her saying I was terrified. I was like well Check I got that one down I nailed it Exactly I got I'm good at this Yeah, and then I just you know I could feel um again the first time I went to the to the 7-11 I commented like on a video or something I can't remember what I commented on but I was I addressed you and I said I just went to the I just made it To 7-11 and back I did it and you you literally replied not good job or you did say good job But not like congratulations. Go, you know relax. It was cool. Go do it again. I was like Great So I jumped right I yeah, I was like, thanks buddy. I was like you should be a personal trainer Exactly so I just I I said all right this guy probably knows what he's talking about so I jumped in the car and went back and I kind of made it a thing and I asked you I said how many how how often should I do this and you're like Why should you ever stop? I was like, oh, all right So I 7-11 was seriously three four or five times a day I just kept going And I knew it was working because it stopped being so terrifying and then as I moved on I learned I'm learning still how to not be afraid of when I am panicky or when I am anxious I'm anxious right now. I could not care less I could see it. It's just you do not care. I don't I can't see your anxious I can see that you just flat out. Don't give a rat's ass. Exactly. Yeah, huge difference Oh, yeah So the second question that Adam asked which is a good question and you feel free to withhold whatever you want to hold here How do you do it? Can you do it without the support of family and friends? I mean, I know you have someone in the group with you as your wife your sister I'm not sure who you invited it. Yeah, I've seen them actually you want a little bit. Yeah, my so what my So my wife is my wife is in the group. Uh, she doesn't have any issues She's moral support. She likes to you know, see what it is that I'm doing And then my sister is in the group because she has her own Anxiety issues. Um, she doesn't really chime in but I know that she's seeing the content. She's very appreciative of it Um, I mean, can you do it without family and friends? I mean, I am very fortunate I am a very very close knit family. I'm the oldest of six. I've got amazing parents I have four kids five dogs a wife. I mean, I have got a I have a huge team in my corner Oh my god. Oh my god. It's it's very loud here but um At the end of the day They could all Get in the car with me like everyone pile in the end of the day. I have to walk I I have to do it. So their love and their support being there for me is amazing Um, but I don't talk to them anymore about what I'm anxious, you know, my wife occasional She'll she'll see it. She's like you anxious right now. I'm like, yeah, she's like, oh, all right And I just tell him like I no big deal. Yeah, that's it I don't I don't need her to feel bad for me. I don't need her to console me um You know, it's Just because it's not going to make me better I don't need anyone to understand what I'm going through because it doesn't help me I just need to I just need to do me. Exactly. I just need to do me Yeah, yeah Yeah, I'm with you. So I guess adam to answer that question like I mean, it certainly is nice to have the support of family or friends But I I don't believe and I think andrew's answer is is excellent Like it's not absolutely required because in the end it's on us anyway Exactly, you know, so so it's a good answer. So reanna says I find that my anxiety um I have very Thinking thoughts. I guess obsessive thoughts. I will be obsessed about one feeling Then it switches to another feeling and there's always something wrong with me I feel like I always have to have something wrong with me And molly was kind of in on that too. Like have have you found that? Well, as you've gone through this process that you kind of focus on one thing Or another. I mean, I think people seem to do it symptomatically like this week It's my dizzying that you know next week. It's my stomach the week after that It's my heart the week after that. I feel like you can't breathe. Have you gone through any of that? So I was able to really quickly get through the physical sensations just because most of those physical sensations I feel when I'm working out anyways So it kind of it's weird when you're having a panic attack, you know, I'm not doing heavy squats So why am I feeling dizzy and light headed and out of breath? but um, it's It really just sunk in I mean really understanding what's happening in a panic attack It's like, okay, this is just my body doing something that it normally does. I'm just going to trust my body right now You know, I I'm not going to fight my body. My body's just going to do what it's going to do My thing and still kind of my thing is just the thoughts and when she talks about sticky thoughts There were times where yeah, it was one particular thought especially when it was in that dark place It was always is this going to drive me to do something bad? Is this going to drive me to hurt myself? Which was really weird because I'm scared to die, but I'm like, is this going to make me kill myself? like that's just a really weird thing and um, I was working with a therapist for a for a time And he had me trying to list out these thoughts and and do all this stuff Someone in the group was just talking about this yesterday and then another person replied with this the identical form that I was filling out and Trying to write down your thoughts and and put the lie to them distort them this that whatever And that that didn't work for me just because it was like all I'm doing all day long It's just writing down these thoughts what I had to learn to do and what helped me was Just keep myself busy not distracting, but just go about my day and just let them be there And I've said so many times in videos just like that toddler screaming in your ear just let them scream and it sucks because The biggest thing is is you can't you can't want it to go away If you want it to stop you're inviting it to stay if you just let it be there you get to the point where it's I was always saying like I hope I'm better by Christmas. That was my thing. I want to be better by Christmas I don't want this to ruin Christmas for me And sometime in like November. I was like, you know, I don't care because I'm still going to enjoy myself I'm still going to have fun. I don't I don't care. It doesn't have to go away And when I stopped caring so much it dramatically came down, but it takes it takes time It's like if if you have to lose 50 pounds, you can't work out one day Eat healthy for one day and say well, how come it didn't work? It's it takes time You have to keep working at it and you know, I'm much better today than I was And these are behaviors and thought patterns because thinking is behavior also that are ingrained over years 10 year You mentioned 10 years. So they don't go away in two weeks or three weeks. You know, they just don't You're basically you're extinguishing certain behaviors and replacing them with others Whether those are physical behaviors or cognitive behaviors and that is a time-consuming thing So let's see here the next question which we touched on a little bit Diane I got to mention Diane. I don't have a question. I just want to let Andrew know that he is crushing it Which you are dude. So good Diane So Laurie asks my question is and we went over this but we'll touch on it for a second My question is when you started exposure, did you always stay in the place you were panicking or did you head back home? And you talked about that That's how you knew you were doing it right when you would not retreat and you would stay there And I remember seeing a video where you went to the supermarket. You struggled a bit You went out to the parking lot you went back in and I did you got a text from your wife while you're sitting in the car Yes, I think something else. Yeah So So You you were not retreating but stay in the anxiety and even the panic correct Yeah, so one thing that I'm very proud of with myself and this isn't What I'm not trying to like challenge anyone say like you got to do this too, but I have yet to retreat I don't care how bad the anxiety has been my Second time going into the grocery store if one if you go backlog to all the photos on facebook You're going to find a picture of me Where I just look very pissed and actually I'm just shitting my pants But I look very angry and that was my first time in the grocery store My goal for that day was just to go in take a picture so I could prove I was there and go home The next day the next day I went and bought my wife flowers And I walked into the store the floor is right up front I grabbed the flowers And I was in full-blown panic and I started walking towards door. I put the flowers back I got to the doors and I literally said out loud f this I'm not going because I started to feel walking away. I was like Through this. I'm not I'm not you don't win I went I got flowers. I came home. I gave a big kiss and said you freaking deserve these These are 10 years coming, you know and I remember that and that to me was I was still so anxious at giving them to where I was shaking giving them to where but I was I was proud and I was also kind of angry at the same time. I was like, why was that so hard? But you know Such a common thing Such a common thing why did I wait 10 years to do that like that thing hits, you know Exactly I think what you just said that moment that moment like f this like you don't win I win Like somehow that has to be part of this equation at some point like there There's a there's a motivational video again. I'm all about motivational things. I'm a personal trainer assuming you better You better There's a guy I always forget his name. He's like a reverend. He speaks he speaks to like troubled youth He goes to inner city schools and stuff like that. He's got great videos on there And one thing that I love that he says is he says Most people when they get tired they quit And he said that uh, let's just say you say, uh, you're already in pain. You're already hurt Get a reward from it. Don't cry to quit cry to keep going And that that's something that I'll say to myself. It's like, all right, you know, I'm already here I'm already panicking. I already feel like crap. Let me do what I came here to do And you know what I'm and that to me kind of just That's why I don't retreat I came here for a reason. I'm not leaving this store without what I came for And I think if I could frame that in I mean, that's a story of just like Determination and to a certain degree strength and like a willingness to see it through But the nuts and bolts of that which really think about it this way So if you have a hard time saying like well, Andrew does that there's no way like drew to that Andrew does that I could never do that But you the reason why you want to do that is no matter what happens That panic state is going to come and go no matter what you do So You can either panic productively and actually accomplish something Or you could just retreat and panic for no reason Like run back home or run to the car and retreat from it and say this is hard. I hate this. I can't do it And and you've actually made no steps forward But that panic those feelings could be a could be a step forward so Use it as opposed to letting it Be worthless That and the biggest thing too is it's just I don't know if I heard it from you if I heard somewhere else, but danny talks about it a lot It's we're retraining our brain and that's another trick that I use when I'm anxious I go like I if I feel like I'm having just a very anxious day. I do more that day I do more exposures because I look at it as My brain gets I'm right now. My brain is thirsty for knowledge. I get to teach it so much I'm going to do so much more today feeling like crap than I will tomorrow if I felt good My brain is learning more. I'm I'm teaching it new behaviors. I'm teaching it how to react to panic I'm teaching myself and it's it's That that is an amazing place to get to In the end you're taking your brain to class almost every day is what's happening. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah Laurie had a quick follow-up. I'll answer this one. Also. Did you feel like you would lose it or go nuts when panicked? Did you stay? I'll answer that one. Yes. He did because we we all were the same thing So if you want to ask did you feel like you would go insane? Did you feel like you would die? Do you feel like you would pass out? Do you feel like you would vomit? Do you would you feel you know all of those things? Yes. The answer is yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes Everybody feels them. They're all the same. We all feel the same things or at least a similar range of symptoms And yes, the answer is yes felt that but stayed anyway. So Because you never go nuts never go nuts never lose it No, um, let's see how many more we have because I don't want to keep you too too too long. Let's see I'm fine. My next appointment actually just canceled on me. So I'm good. I'm good. Let's just shoot the shit, man Let's do it Let's do it. All right, so let's talk about jarred asks andrew in your last exposure video You said your anxiety was quite high You look and spoke quite normally is that due to a lot of practicing focusing on surroundings versus sensations Like are you grounding? He feels like when he's anxious his thoughts and words Processed at a lower way like he sort of gets dumber, which I think we've all experienced that before What do you think you do but most people looking from the outside and jarred would probably say but I really couldn't tell Honestly jarred pull out your camera and start videotaping yourself doing exposures. Yes, and then watch it back Just for yourself Yeah, show it show it to someone say what do I look like what what do you think I'm thinking right now? Most people it's not you're not you know, I'm not walking through the store like It's it's that's not what you look like Like it. I mean we have to acknowledge it probably feels like I'm just like in this all like a roller coaster, but And if you watch some of my videos when I'm in the car and I'm driving sometimes I it's you can kind of if you really look for it You can see when a thought pops into my head because I'll be mid dialogue and then I'll start Not skipping my words, but I'm talking at a little bit of a slower rate You can see that I'm processing something in my head, but I'm still You know, I can still chew gum and walk. I can still You know, I don't forget how to drive the car or how to get home That's a it's a big thing kind of like, you know what you just answered I constantly like I'm going to get amnesia well It hasn't happened in the 10,000 other panic attacks. I've had so why is this one going to be special So and and on top of if I get amnesia friggin bonus round, I don't have to worry about doing exposure Don't matter. You'll forget you're agoraphobic, right? It doesn't matter exactly that bonus. I'm with you on that 100% I think that advice like video yourself Is really really really helpful. I did a video. It's old now. It's a couple years old I'll try and link it if I can I was in the car and I talked about checking your body language and Like point the camera at yourself, dude Like even if you don't ever show it to anybody just for yourself and then watch it back that night And you'll see like oh, I do this I do this I do this and it can help you start to extinguish those little ticks and Rich yeah, I saw that video and that's one of the reasons why I started videoing myself and Luckily, my wife was nice enough to get me something like a car bound for the longest time Yeah, I'm driving. I'm like, oh cop cop hold on. Okay. Now we're back It's it's a thing. Um, let's see here. So that was your thing How do you feel about having come so far? Well, I've got to believe you feel really doing good I I feel really good. It's um, you know in the beginning it's It's nice to be able to go out and do things It's amazing because my kids are getting old enough for they're going to start retaining memories And I don't want them to have at least an extensive memory of daddy doesn't go places Very early on I made it to my son's last t-ball game of the season I was terrified, but I was so happy that I went. I actually enjoyed myself at the game got a hotdog I felt great. I paid for it later. I was very anxious the rest of the day, but I remember just kept telling myself I don't care how anxious I feel No one can take that away from me. I was at my son's game and it was amazing and The other thing too is it's kind of it's kind of funny now. It's um I I went to The health food store the other day. That's where I did that video. It was the first time going there and I came home I told my wife and she was like good job. She's talking to me like I'm like, you know My two-year-old that's big potty training right now. I'm like, I'm good, right? Yeah, I'm like Yeah, like, okay, you know what? Say that when I get to the night's game or say that when I I get on a plane Right, exactly. Well, actually to follow up on that Heather says, what are some of your ultimate goals? But you kind of said that you don't really necessarily have a specific Like all I need to get to Harris or whatever it is my my I do have some long-term goals And again, I'm not setting a timetable on it But one I said very early on when I joined this group. I'm going to go on a worldwide tour And I'm going to come by and give everyone a high five. So Damn it. I had to make friends with Danny. She lives as far away from me as us as she could possibly be That's ridiculous. We say that all the time And I've got to go see uh, Billy said he's going to take me to a castle. So I got to go see Billy I'm going to get you to uh, I'm going to take you to a Yankees game or something and And see everyone on you know, all 50 states is this this group's pretty big. So At some point I got to get to Vegas like I have not been to Vegas. I have to go just to go so Well, if you go let give me a heads up so I can at least try and make my way down to the strip Because I imagine that's where you're going to want to be these crazy people come to las vegas They just for some reason got to go to the strip. So What else is there? Well, we'll we'll lift. How's that? There you go. I got I got you there That's covered, right? So that's pretty cool. All right. So let's go to um Let's say when both of you feel like you're having a bad day anxiety sneaks up This is raven what keeps you both motivated and going well We already kind of talked about that like how do you not be down? If there was one thing you could say to somebody who is struggling in the struggling stages and feels helpless and scared What would you say about what you've gone through and where you are now? One it's not a life sentence Nice, okay. It is it is not a life sentence. You are here as long as you need to be I Truly truly Don't just watch the videos that drew puts out or anyone else puts out really try to absorb it and Again, when you feel like crap when those thoughts just won't leave you alone or those sensations won't leave you alone Just continue to live life. You you really have to get to the point and it's it's the simplest thing to do it's so Not simple to explain it. You have to this is you getting frustrated the other day in the video. It's like stop Stop at any time you feel something. Don't don't acknowledge it. Don't don't give it any respect. Don't Post in the group that oh, this is what I'm feeling and I'm not coming down on anyone that does that But all you're doing is you're kind of just you're just Continuing the thought process you're chasing the thought You're you're naming the sensation. You're kind of feeling bad for yourself. Don't do that. Just say, you know what? Screw it. I'm going to feel like crap today But you know what? I'm still going to do the dishes and I'm still Going to take the dog for a walk, you know those things and And it's and understand it's going to feel like crap and it's supposed to feel like crap It's going to be it's going to be that way for weeks or months or however long it's going to take And then one day you're going to notice that hey, I didn't feel like crap for like the last hour I've actually not been feeling anxious and then Over time it becomes you know like me. I oh, I feel anxious right now But I have a great couple of days and yeah that that the other thing too that I had to come to the realization on myself is Don't mistake Not being like happy or enthusiastic with being anxious You know, we're not always, you know in the best of mood sometimes you're just a little blah We all have blah days normal people have we're all normal, but everyone has a blah day and when you have a you know, it's just Not motivated. I'm not super happy. I'm not enthused. That's not anxiety. That's just being human So don't don't confuse that with I'm having a setback or I'm or I'm anxious or it's just no you're just human You're just having emotions. That's all right And I think I'll add to that and say it's not so much that you'll notice One day you'll notice that you weren't anxious for the last hour one day. You'll notice that you're not thinking about how you feel Yeah, I'd have been anxious but not been anxious. Don't know like Didn't care weren't scanning weren't looking weren't evaluating how you feel And that's exactly day. Yeah, and it'll happen for 15 minutes or 20 minutes or an hour Maybe only but that will be that's a huge like Awesome like you feel normal for a little while And don't and don't try and cling to that feeling because then you just you kind of like chase it away just Let that just be a learning lesson for you. Say, okay. They come to that realization. Oh, shit. This works because I I had that that relief I had that that that You know, I didn't care how I felt and You can be proud of yourself even if you feel anxious you could say well I did it once and I know I'm gonna do it again and That's how you start stacking up those victories Right. Yeah, that's a good answer. That's a really good answer. All right, so let's move on here. Um We had three questions here and then that was the end of it. So let's see Well, these are my questions. Why do I feel better in certain situations and not in others? I mean, I could kind of answer that but I mean, what do you think that is? Do you have that? I'm Yeah, I guess I mean I was kind of I was hoping that I was like, you know, give me an example So I really know how to answer it but I could I could flesh that out a little bit I think what he might be talking about here is Why do I feel better in certain situations and not another there's usually you feel better in a situation you feel safer? Like it's either in your safe zone, which for some people is just their house or their sofa even Or in that little like you said you were contented agoraphobic Like you could do what you needed to do to get by and you felt okay in that in that little bubble Yeah, and usually you feel worse in certain situations because you're you're outside the bubble man Like yeah, you're you're in what is unsafe to your brain territory Yeah, you well because you you've trained your brain to be afraid of something It's not that you've trained your brain to be afraid. You've trained your brain to avoid what you fear And that's I mean, that's obviously why you're gonna feel kind of crappy and You know, it's something again when you feel crappy be proud especially because you're probably doing something Like if you're intentionally making yourself feel like crap, that's a great thing Because you're desensitizing yourself from that to that situation I mean, that's really kind of the best answer I can give right there No, it's a great answer I think that's why you feel worse in certain situations because You know, you're in a place where you haven't engineered your brain to say well, I'm safer But you're safe everywhere. You're safe in the end. You're safe everywhere I was doing so well and then out of the blue. I got a setback. I feel the terms I used to accept no longer carry any weight. They feel meaningless when I say them to myself. Okay. Well, when I say it's only a bad habit I'll I'll answer that I'll answer that so The answer to that question first of all we talked about setbacks Like a setback is not that you feel bad a setback is what you do with it So you're not trying to extinguish your anxiety You're trying to get to the point where you're just not caring That that you're feeling a given way And the the terms I used to accept are no longer valid and I chime in on this one, I guess I talked about this a couple of months ago when I that positive self-talk is bullshit thing and I will stand behind that Those are things you can do when you're You know home at night and you're ending your day and you're thinking and you're making a plan for tomorrow And you want to go through those things and challenge your thoughts logically great But when you feel bad you will never ever ever convince your anxious and terrified mind that you are okay Never it will win every single time So i'm guessing that when you are out and you're pushing a little bit and in the beginning when you were in that 7 11 You're in that grocery store for the first time There may have been a little bit of like i'm okay. I'm okay. I'm okay But did you find that like i'm okay is meaningless because your brain will always come back to you Yeah, no, you're not Yeah, but if what if will always win when you're anxious and panicked always So that never never your goal is to be able to talk yourself out of panic never I see I never like I never had like a mantra and I think that might be what he's doing is kind of Ask that do you have a mantra? Do you have phrases? You you know the No, the only thing I ever said to myself very early on I can remember when I first went into the grocery store I kept telling myself i'm not going to add a second fear. I'm not going to add a second fear That was the whole thing and I was kind of convincing myself that i'm just i'm not going to do that so It it helped To not again i'm not trying to avoid panic I'm exposing myself to it. I'm coming get me if you're going to do it Come and get me and then watch how I react because you're not getting anything from me um And again, you can't it's it's not positive to talk one thing that I do is I will do like positive affirmations But that's not what I'm anxious That's something to kind of get myself going in the day that yeah I am a good person. I am worthy of abundance that kind of stuff Think of it kind of like I mean people anyone has kids or at least younger siblings I don't try and Tell my kids what they did wrong once I've just put them in time out. They're screaming because they're in time out I'm not no I can't I cannot reason with you right now. I'm going to let you scream and cry You're eventually going to tie yourself out and one of my kids is Pretty friggin determined, but it's like I will talk to you when you are rational and finally they calm down They're not sobbing anymore. Then I come over. Why did I put you in time out? What did you do wrong here and now they can understand and I can teach them the lesson And move on so when you're when you're really anxious Do what you got to do if you're anxious while you're doing the dishes just keep doing the dishes If you got anxious while you were driving the car just get to your destination You know do what you have to do that that's where the floating comes in Let it be there and then later as the anxiety comes down Then if you want to talk to yourself, then yes, psych yourself up. You're like, do you see that shit? I just I didn't care how anxious I was I I did it anyways But the the mantra is and the analysis and the challenging of thoughts and countering thoughts that only can happen when you're calm and rational Like and so if it it will never work when you're in the midst of the anxiety of the panic It just doesn't work makes it work sometimes And and see it exactly and that's where I very early on in the video I was telling you about when I was seeing that psycho that psychologist. I could not Hear what he was saying. I had to learn and what I did not learn from him But I learned in this group and from your videos and dr. Claire weeks and got thank you so much for the videos You did with holly by the way Welcome learning have just just to float. That's what I needed once I was able to do that I could then hear what that therapist was trying to tell me and I could really start doing some of the CBT work I You can't talk to me like, you know, it's why, you know, your family cannot tell you to calm down when you're in the middle of a panic attack That's right You know, that's that's an excellent point But people get angry and literally angry and post about that stuff. Can you believe it? My husband just told me to calm down. That's crazy. Well, why do you think that he shouldn't tell you to calm down? But you should be able to tell yourself to calm down Why is it bad when he says it but okay when you say it? So when you are in the thick of it and the shit is hitting the fan you cannot do I'm okay. You cannot have mantras and chants and And things that will convince you that you're okay. It makes it worse because it doesn't work So therefore it's like I can't calm down. I can't come down. I can't come down the obscurity and then Be non-reactive and ultimately you will calm down And yeah, you just start that whole fear cycle again. It's just you're telling myself to calm down I want to calm down, but I'm not calming down. So why I'm scared because I can't calm down I'll never calm down And your body's just like more adrenaline. Okay pump some more. Okay His third question was um, and this is Fortunato by the way, what does it feel like to be fully recovered? And how do you know? Um, I I know you necessarily wouldn't call yourself fully recovered I I will give you my answer to that when I didn't when I stopped thinking about what I was going to do next That's what I knew Like what I what I didn't have to have a plan or I did not I no longer anticipated or cared what was coming up on my agenda what I have to travel what I have to You know be in the city what I have to it didn't matter anymore Like like regular people do they just live life as it comes at them for the most part and like oh next week I have to be in wherever, you know have to be in Florida next week. Okay. Like I didn't even think about it That's when you know that's when you know So when you're no longer thinking about what's coming up Because of how you might feel or will it will this be hard? Will I be able to do it? I never question anymore. What will I be able to do this? Because yeah Yeah, so I don't know if you if you have feelings along this like what is that changing are you getting toward that now I can feel like coming um because you know if my My wife says you need to go to the store and get this. It's all right, you know I guess I'm going to the store, you know the things that I I do now It learned that are not really that much of an issue or not an issue at all to me I can feel that that's what it's like. I'm getting a little taste of what full recovery is going to be like Um, but for now. I'm just I'm just enjoying the ride So, it's good. Yeah, such a good attitude about it, man. Such a good attitude about it. I like So helpful in sharing with all these things. So we're out of questions, dude We just about 55 minutes. You got anything you want to add any closing thoughts? We covered everything pretty much, um, just you know Don't feel that you have to do exactly like I did or do exactly like someone else in the group is You kind of find your own way. It's completely customizable to to the individual Um, the the the challenge that I tried to start in or that I'm starting in the group again This isn't a competition. It's all I'm I want people to challenge themselves I need to challenge myself to just take that next step and Again, the biggest point I can make is it's supposed to suck It's supposed to scare the crap out of you, but you know Anything worth doing in life. You got to Take take some work. It takes some effort and yeah Again, it's not a life sentence. I'm gonna I'm I will get past this I I am 100 committed nothing stopping me And every everyone has the has the same strength within them To face their fears and to ultimately beat that you're no braver than I'm sorry. I'm no braver than you You you will find your spark you just you got to want it It's good. It's a good way to end So thanks man. I so appreciate you taking an hour of your life to do this It'll be so helpful to many people. I'm sure they appreciate it, too And uh, I guess we'll wrap it up here. All right, they will do another one one day from a hockey game. Oh, yeah Oh, yeah. All right, brother. Let me hit the stop recording buddy. Thank you very much. All right. Thanks. Catch you later. Let's see