 I selected a select board. First item is public comment. This is comments on anything that we do not currently have on the agenda. I just have a quick Tamra Morgan of East Randolph and representing people from the library. I just wanted to just pass these around for you. True. There's school posters about the summer reading programs and summer programs we've got. Mostly to help maintain continuity of education and mirror the folks in the community and give the kids, you know, there's a school remaking class. I think there's recently been a robotics. One of them is a Vermont Reads. We're going to read a graphic novel by John Lewis about his life. He's a congressman and did a lot of civil rights activism in those 50s, 60s, 70s still. And we've also got Star Wars Stormtrooper Day. And we've also got one of them you'll see there that we especially wanted to point out is Drag Queen Story Hour, which we wanted to assure you if you get calls, there are certain people who are targeting this event, which is happening in Montpelier, it happens around the country. And there are certain anti-gay activists who target this event. If you guys get calls, if the voice has to get a call, I can probably call her. Just tell them to call the library. We've got it handled. Amy will send it to one of the trustees and we have a plan for responding. So what is the event in my sect creating the pushback? It's Drag Queen Story Hour. So it's a couple of Drag Queens doing Story Hour kind of like. Like we did when we did the meeting, people that were. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. With the needs of harm and freedom. Yeah. And it's in the same time frame as the Chamber Pride Week events. It's all kind of within a whole scope of programming. And pull programs you can go and watch the folks where they talk about their lives and whatnot. But we do know that there's a pushback. I can't remember her name, but there's a particular group with a name in the front of it that is calling and is kind of making a bit of trouble for her. So that's seven days. Yeah, yeah. Probably about the Montpelier place. So we just wanted to let you know and assure you that you can just send any calls to us. And also just want to let you know what's going on. Oh, yeah. Just try it. Well, you can try. We might do our best to answer, so maybe you don't get that. OK. And if you want to see stormtroopers, there's another group coming. We're stormtroopers. And then there's the puppy reading where someone brings their dog in case we do to the dog. There are buskers out there today. Yeah, they're doing drumming inside. Thanks. Thank you. Thanks. Any other comments? Excellent. Is the approval of the agenda? I may ask the board to consider two possible changes. One is including the tax stabilization agreement with Green Mountain Economic Development Corporation, supported previously discussed to hold business. And also, if the board would be inclined to reorganize the new business category, they have a representative of the community group that'd like to form the Art and Culture Committee in the audience. And if they could be reorganized so that they could go in maybe the fifth position, they wouldn't wait around for the rest of them. But potentially, the letter D from I to D. Motion to approve the agenda with adultless additions. A second. All those in favor? Aye. And first, stated, carries consent calendar. This is the regular meeting minutes from June 13th. The public hearing of June 18th and of course. And we've approved the consent calendar. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Stained? New business, R3 child care program proposal. Are you speaking on that? I can speak on that. Well, everyone. I'm Amy Nicola. I'm co-chair of an R3 downtown economic development task force and also heading up a second task force that arose out of that process related to bringing more high quality child care to Randolph. Last select board meeting we submitted a, what I believe would be a pretty detailed proposal to the group with supporting exhibits. With our request to have 45 South Main Street, the former senior eye care building committed from the town or to our group to pursue a child care, high quality child care center at that site. The proposal we submitted and hopefully you've all seen receive both paper and electronic copies of that goes into a number of details of our reason behind it, our support or background. So I'm going to give just a brief overview tonight and then open up for questions that you may have about the proposal. In short, one of the things that came out of our three task force is the need in our town to pursue attracting the human capital that we need to for our town to survive. This is in our town to thrive and to increase our tax base. One of the things that our task force identified as being a key challenge to Randolph is a lack of child care centers. The only available birth to five full day child care center in Randolph right now is the Robbins Nest run by Gippard that's only available for Gippard employees in school and can even meet the demands for Gippard. Pretty much every business that we've talked to in town has expressed, including the town itself, has noted that they've lost or been unable to recruit individuals to town because of the lack of child care. The challenge, of course, is with the new child care regulations which the state is in passing in order to promote high quality child care centers. It's also increased the cost and the challenges of making successful business out of it. Our group has spent a lot of time looking at different ways to do that. We believe that if we can make at least a building available from the town for free or no cost it will give us the highest likelihood of being able to recruit somebody to run the center and also create a business plan that will actually be successful and sustainable for child care into the future. So our proposal is, in fact, Adolfo had originally mentioned that the child care center building was available. It seems to be approximately the right size and the right amount of land that would prove successful to the child care center with some work. So if we can start with that building, put together a non-profit or a fiduciary to start producing grants and raising money to convert it into a center. We can also develop a program for the process of recruiting somebody to run the center. The reason we're asking for the commitment now from the town to make the center available is we've gotten to the point where we need to raise money and start developing a plan for soon grants. If our entire plan centers itself and hinges on having a building available with little to no cost we can't pursue those steps unless we have a commitment from the town to make the building available and take off the market to give us a chance to develop that. So that's the gist of our proposal. Of course, we have much more details if you get a chance or if you have had a chance to read our proposal, including the background support for the child care numbers in our town that's around the state. But if you have questions, open it up to the select board members. What happens to your proposal if there isn't, if it isn't just handed over by the town, the building isn't just handed over? I mean, the building was purchased and we need to sort in some of these details and it was purchased using general employers. The intent was that it would go to the police district to be the potential new station for the police district when it was purchased. And then there was a whole bunch of moving pieces and we got to sort some of those out to figure out where all that's at. But the tax payers of the town have invested this money in the building with the intent that it would become a police station. And I think we got to sort out what, you know, to make, I don't know that we can make a commitment tonight that we can just hand the building over for a little or nothing, but we can, I think we can make a commitment of whether we take it off the market or work with the group to develop it. What does that do to your business model if we can't make that commitment that we can just... The degree that we can't work out the details of what the relationship is going to look like for the town, it makes it that much more difficult to develop the plan that we're going to market to somebody to develop the site, you know, by some time because we get along it for writing a grant or if we're pursuing somebody to run, we have to say here's what the general model might look like and here's what the costs are going to be and then the biggest challenge is with development in the center has been costs, particularly, you know, the mortgage-releasing costs of a building and if we don't know what that's going to be it makes it very difficult to create a model that will work to recruit somebody to run it or to figure out what that's going to look like and especially when we start to have to pursue grants it's going to be what's the model and what are the costs going to be and a lot of that's centered around the building so if we can't get to the point where we at least have some general degree of knowledge of what it's going to be to start it makes it very difficult to put together a strong proposal for a grant or a strong perspective, so to speak, looking for somebody to potentially take over and run the business again, if we had to start with a commitment to take it off the market and work with it we can certainly, that's where we need to start that's where we need to start but it's just going to extend the process because it's some time before we pursue the next steps especially taking money from people in terms of either donations or grant money we need to know what it's going to look like The experience with grants and the doctors in there they've had it too they commit to capital things much easier than they do operating operating side of things so just keep that in mind that the actual cost of the building may not be out of the question when you're looking at your grant funding but it's the business model I mean we need an overall structure the challenge is that everybody's been looking to both the existing folks who are out there and there's been a number of people who are pursuing how to either develop or sell, like Montessori and Town to attract people to run these centers and the challenge is when you have a mortgage cost and everything else you can't find the business model There's grants out there for which you wouldn't have a mortgage that will pay the cost of that building will pay the cost of rehab cost of putting in a fence around the playground equipment, those types of things We can't pursue the rehab and the structure of what it's going to look like until we have somebody who is committed to running the place and knows how to make those designs and structures We have this what comes chicken and egg kind of issue here where it's tough you can't commit to grants or money for people to develop the building to make it look like something before you know who's going to run it and what the structure and design is going to be for the actual business behind it Is it going to be zero to five? Is it going to commit to powerful medicine until we know what the business model is going to be that becomes a big challenge We're a volunteer group none of us are the child care providers so we're going to be running the business We are going to attract those people to run the business and develop the business model behind it So it's a challenge for us to go in and say oh we're going to as non child care building experts and not the people who are going to run the building to say we're going to remodel this building and create the design and then find somebody to run it if you understand the point that I'm making I understand what you're saying and I don't know that just going into it with a model of the town and donating the building is all the right mindset either with a lot of your grants or capital focused and would reimburse for the purchase price just keep that in mind because some of your grants that are out there will go they go towards assets and capital versus there's not many for operating Grants would be focused on also developing renovating the building creating the outdoor place based on those things we're not asking the town to commit the capital to make those renovations although we would be asking the town to help pursue the municipal grants available to do that to help with the process if you understand the distinction I'm getting out of there I'm just saying don't close your eyes to covering all of this process if we find once we get into it we have a grant that will cover the purchase price of the building we would love to be able to then purchase the building from the town eventually and have it be owned by the person who's running the center our ultimate goal would be to start with no cost least with the idea of developing the grants and the business models and if money comes in opportunity for that building to be self-sustainable and if we're running the center to purchase it from the town that would be our ultimate goal it's just tough we can't get to that point until we have a commitment to start pursuing the business models and see what's available and for that we need at least some commitment from the town to make it available at least for some time at little to no cost Just a quick conversation with other providers in town there has been our group that involves other people who are involved in the child care process Carmen who's been running the Montessori process I mean all the other provider town Robins Nest and Gifford is part of it and they're actually supporting our process they're willing to provide their expertise in how to run the center they've provided their plans for their center to use as a support so we've talked to as many people out there as we can and that's why we've gone to the point where we're saying the next step what we need is we need to start getting money to assess the building in terms of what renovations are possible what you can do with the building to start pursuing food to run it and in order to take that next step we need the commitment from the town to make the building available because it's tough for us to spend the time and money pursuing those things if at any moment the building could be sold well gee we're happy that you went about doing this but we're going to do something else with the building there was an engineering study of that building done when we first got it for the police before they would look into the design of that it might be seeing as some money in time it'll tell you where the structural pieces are where the challenges were it was part of when we even looked at that land for the fire station there was some other work done in the general area of it and I think we know the initial contractors who did it those folks come out and do an initial general view of the site for free just to get their general impression of yes there's no immediate right flags but in order to do more looking at elevators building support elevators this was much more the engineering of the building itself and that would be definitely something very important because we don't have the big issues we have it's plumbing and what we can do with plumbing we need to adjust for additional bathrooms and other things just look at putting that the addition on so they could pull in and they wouldn't have to the general public wouldn't see you oh that's part of the fun I don't have that problem and I think we can get a lot of this stuff done that we need to do a little to no cost and getting people to volunteer or provide low cost services at least for the initial assessments for a lot of the initial construction cost it's just it's tough to I can't continue to ask people to do that without knowing that I can actually use the building we spent about six months pursuing kind of the generals behind it just at the stage whether this is possible or not given the realities of the financial aspects of childcare is it at all realistic to think that the town will be really getting money for this building at some point in the future and what kind of time scale we'll be looking at to get the town's investment back to be honest it's hard to say the new legislation that just passes fall creates a lot of additional financial incentives and ways to bring in reimbursements for different levels of childcare it's tough to say how well those are going to really play out in terms of the business model over the next year or two it's a challenging business right now as we're seeing that's why we're getting a decrease especially the new high quality legislation the legislation that brought high quality childcare has driven a lot of people out of business because it's increased the cost of being able to do it so it's something that we would hope that we could get to that point but whether I could commit to it there's a timeline we can't do that until we start really looking at business pens and running the numbers which we can't do until we know what the building's going to look like what the initial costs are going to be and start getting somebody involved who's really interested in running because this is my fear we have this building and it's empty so it's very tempting for all of us to say what do we do with this asset to make it productive for the high good use of such a structure and it's obviously for the community and I think there's no thing that's not true however one of the reasons why the building has been sitting is because we're probably asking too much money for it and we're just waiting for the right buyer to come around if the price for the building was lower we would sell it right it just depends on how low we're willing to sell the building for I think we're asking for 25 for it but you know let's say the building would actually I'm just making up a number here this is just hypothetical let's say we that the building would sell right now for $200,000 that's $200,000 that we would have we don't have right now and basically you know if we we don't have that option anymore of getting that money for that building and from a financial point of view it's the same situation as if someone were to come to the town and say can we have $200,000 to open up a childcare center will the town fund that for us I suspect that we would probably be pretty reluctant to do that if someone were to do it it just feels really different because we actually have the structure we haven't sold it so what they're asking us to do is for the town to continue paying the mortgage insurance all the costs that we have to make this happen I'm not saying it's a bad idea I just wanted to make sure that we're looking at all the angles we're not just thinking what's going to be what are we going to do with this empty building well then if you're publicly subsidizing that one are there people that are in it that are on a smaller scale that are going to be like hey where's my help I don't know what the answer is I'm going to make two points in response one the difference is you have a building that's only incurring costs for the town right now without benefits and so you're having an opportunity to take something that at least is just the cost right now turning into a public benefit everything that we're looking at and it would take me an hour presentation going to all the details tonight which is why I put it on the report with all the exhibits behind it showing that this is a problem that the town cannot afford not to solve the economic benefits of creating the center are much higher than the $200,000 benefits from just selling the building in the long run if you can bring in additional child care which brings in additional residents who are living in town which potentially increases the tax base or at least increases the ability of businesses to be able to hire the people they need to either sustain themselves or expand the problem we have right now is the businesses are doing well but they're continually hitting a road block where they cannot hire the people that they need to either expand or even sustain some of the level of businesses that we've had. We did a survey of over 26 businesses and repeatedly this issue is coming up and the problem of child care has been one of the top problems of improvements that can happen to a problem that's not getting better it's getting worse or less. Does anybody disagree with you that child care is needed or what the benefits are if it's available? How do we move into this with our eyes wide open of what we're doing with an asset that the town is having to make payments on? What we need to make sure is that we're looking at everything and we've made the decision that this is the highest and best use for this asset and these town resources. What we need to do is get our head around what the entire picture is and what the options are to make that decision and it's hard when you're in a catch 22 on your side too so a lot of the questions that we'd like to have the answers to going into this you can't give us the answer because you don't have what you need to get that answer. And I think one point that I can address is we're not looking for a permanent commitment if we start looking into these answers and we can't come up with a viable business solution for it and we can't bring in somebody to do the property or commit to it then the town still owns the building, the building is still there for the town to settle down we're not looking for an indefinite commitment to make this work but we need an optimal commitment so our group can pursue what we need to do to get to the point where we can answer some of these questions. So what is the time frame for developing that business plan? If we said hey we can take it off the market for six months incur those taxes and in payments for six months then you come back with this plan and we can assess what that means to the town at that point are we talking a year or 18 months? I think realistically we need at least a year given how long where Carmen was pursuing somebody to potentially take over her Montessori business floor which is an existing childcare center in town for over a year a lot of her options which that was already developed a lot of things that she were pursuing drug out for six to nine months almost a year where they were just working on the possibilities before they fell through. More starting from a point that's a little bit behind that because first we need the building assessment and then we need the architectural assessments and then we need developing the grants we need to reach out to local businesses because I think part of this is going to have to have support from local businesses that work it's not going to be a standalone structure from what we're looking at and that's going to take some time to develop in six months. From a subsidy perspective businesses or just business investing in the childcare? I think either it could come in different ways I think we're going to need to have the businesses who are directly impacted by the lack of childcare for their employees to provide support either from the subsidization for their own employees who are attending the center or a degree of subsidization communally from a group of businesses for the center itself if I look at the Robinsness model my understanding is that survives at the level and quality it does because Gifford is backing it up and that's a big challenge throughout the state that people are running into when I talk to the folks of Lexbox kids if you're a big enough organization you have enough employees to potentially subsidize the center but then you have a bunch of collections of small businesses that individually can't do it so my hope is that we can get a collection of businesses together all impacted by this program all contribute to building the center I'm not saying that that's necessarily going to be the model that eventually works but my initial impression at this point is that's going to if we can make something like that work that's going to give us the greatest chance of possible success of getting sustainable business together that will eventually be self-sustaining or at least be sustaining outside of the town I would make a suggestion to the board if the board being inclined to potentially have a six month period where Damien and his group could go back and do some more work and maybe revisit the issue in January just before the town meeting warning is due or approved and then at that point Damien comes back to the select board and says you know what, we did all this work it's not going to work we can put it back on the market or the report from Damien in the R3 group is we've done some more work lots of studies, lots of success we found a whole lot of money to work with the board at that point to put a question on the town meeting ballot to bring it to the voters and maybe have them considered so it would be understanding that Damien and his group Damien are years worth to potentially have a final recommendation of the board or a final plan, but if we did in six month increments there could be another report from the board and the board can then make another decision in January that would be a six month commitment to take it off the market which would give your group some time to do some more work with the understanding that in January it would be a second report and we're happy to report back in any way that makes sense I would just say that we needed not concreteness about what is possible from the town that we can pursue the things that we need to pursue in terms of talking to businesses about their potential support talking to potential stakeholders and also most importantly recruiting somebody who is going to commit to turning this into a business month and actually running the center which is the biggest challenge out there even right now with the existing childcare centers that are currently losing directors over and over again our business to sustain with the qualified people especially with the certified teaching degrees that they need in order to meet the state requirements because then they tend to go into the public education as soon as they have an opportunity so we need to be able to make our best presentation possible in order to recruit a high quality person who is going to take this on as a business model that's going to be tough to do because we don't have enough of a commitment that I can assure them that if you take this challenge on and get involved with us if I need to get that person involved to know what the plans are going to look like because they need to meet their plan not my plan but I can't do that to some level if there's still not enough security out there that it's going to be pulled out from under them again, I'm not saying not to do this six months or four back and just making it important that we have enough concreteness in the way that we're setting it up that we can make pitches to people that I can make with honesty and straightforwardness and it will sell us to businesses and business owners I can see a couple things happening so I'm with a bell phone I think that six months might give you the time to at least come back and say we're making progress and moving forward I could see options of potentially if there was money available to purchase it great, if there's not then maybe there's a way to structure a lease that went on for a period of time so that that still gives you the option to be able to move it forward I don't know what that lease would look like I don't know what the payment schedule or anything like that would look like it certainly takes a lot of creativity to come up with this stuff at least as it could happen I'm curious Josh, do you know much about any of the current funding that might be coming forward have you ever heard of anything that helps these kind of situations well there's an opportunity coming up next week for municipal buildings I don't think we're going to be able to make that I wouldn't make that then but there's also opportunities in the fall that would be long term make a plan agree so that might be useful in this situation for sure there are a lot of grants out there the challenge is again getting the business model together so we can know what it's going to look like so we know what we're doing with the grants that's the part of it that becomes a real challenge if we can't say what the lease and structure is going to look like or if there's going to be a mortgage payment if there's not going to be a mortgage payment we just need to start out which is why I think it's important that we eventually get to the point that we at least have a commitment to start with a no cost introductory period for the business so then we know what we're starting with so we can make the pitch for somebody to come in and figure out what the business model is and we can't develop a business model if we don't know if it's going to be an X amount of dollar for a month lease mortgage payments or we're covering insurance or taxes or if the talent is, we just we need to work those things out so we can get to the point where we can have the conversations we need to use this for which is why we wanted to get to the select board sooner rather than later so we can make sure that we're starting to work those things out what are our much more transparent grants we have an annual payment I don't recall the exact amount but it's roughly $15,000 roughly about $1,000 over $1,000 per month we also have some heating oil costs which I don't have on my head, we have to heat the building because of the angle of the water pipes we would never be sure that we get all the water out so rather than freezing pipes we have to heat the building and it's the insurance as well and they don't break that out so we're starting to capture probably in the $25,000 at the most what if we do it through town meeting which would give them options or somebody options of doing some sort of article that would be about 8 points that's what Perry was suggesting on that same page this gets them up to January we could get a report back from you folks what you've gathered put an article out there I know when we talked about this priority being on the board we were all pretty much in agreement that we felt this was a pretty good use of the property and a substantial need for the community so I think we felt that we had a general consensus at that time that this would be a good way to move forward for the need that was interesting to foster the economic development piece of this so I think if we could do 6-7 months you guys give back to us that point that might give us an opportunity if I give a general repus planning grant then I think we have a little bit more information to make decisions about and then as I said I think you could put an article out there and see what would happen and I think you'd find that there's overwhelming community support for this based on what I've seen just the board knows that the reason I chose January is because the warrant is due in January and in January so it would be to your point it would be available for the town meeting I'll vote what's the size of the amount you should have in the building? the initial purchase price was $2.75 the sale price was $2.25 because of the amount of money to the investigative work most of the payments that we've made are interest only so we typically would have the entire outstanding balance that the capital is still roughly $2.75 maybe more if our interest payments initially were less than interest only it was just what the bank was willing to accept so we may have added some of the interest cost on to the capital what we're paying what we'd be giving up shows a fair amount on the town's part when they're looking for funding is that like an in-kind or matching grant? if there's a match to a grant what the town kicks in certainly would look pretty substantial I would think thank you the structure of all the families there's lots of ways to structure this structure it so there's no payments for capital for a certain number of years and then you start making payments for there's grant funding for assets that you may have to get them running together whatever that's kind of the information you need I hate to walk away from getting at how reimbursed for that building if it's a matter of somebody writing a grant for them to be able to buy it an easy way to structure it is to be able to become available to the business person who's running it they have an obligation to run for them those things are easy to solve we need the person who's going to be the business person running the work group of volunteers who aren't child care people who are willing to put in the time and energy to make it happen but we need people who are again most of us don't see direct benefit from it other than the need for the talent so are there different ways to structure this one is a for profit situation or a non profit similar to what I referred to back then in Lebanon there was a model that I looked at down there that was a non profit is that kind of the structure you guys were thinking there's lots of different structures that could potentially work it depends on who we're going to serve our goals and we have to serve as many of the residents as possible our idea would be to make it affordable to everybody across the county but again we need to recruit the person to do it and it all depends on how what our overhead is and we don't know what our overhead is you don't want to be a profit I'm just saying that's what the truck structure is and how does that happen and it's my our thought right now is that the most successful structure is going to be to start with a non profit or a fiduciary to start pursuing the grants but also then to once we know what at least the overhead is while recruiting the person to run it also start recruiting businesses who have the need to raise their recruitings to see what levels of commitment we can get for those businesses into the building of the structure I'll determine the level of services whether it's educational oriented to what level and part of it again the person we recruit I mean it's who we're able to recruit to run this business including the model on what level of business if the only person we can find is only interested in doing a other age group to start with that still feeds and doesn't need to do and is not what we're not going to pass it on so we have our ideal what we're going for but we just need to get enough on-freakness so we can make a pitch to define somebody who's going to do it and we can't do that unless we know we're going to be able to run with this building and what level of overhead we at an ideal level start with the first option and again an ideal situation is to be able to get to the point where we can own the building at whatever level makes sense and I'm going to say we is not our group it's whoever is in that specific situation when you're running the numbers though for now you know that your worst case scenario is the purchase price of the building right your best case scenario is zero well we wouldn't be going forward with this building and we wouldn't be going forward with this building and then we start with the low cost and if we're dealing with a unless we have that as a model this isn't a viable option we spent six months looking at this and being able to recruit somebody just for what we're at the buy building purchase it it's it's very tough it just doesn't work that's the reason Carmen couldn't sell her business the cost of the mortgage is very prohibitive of anybody they're all loaned to super grants and other things there's not enough to much overhead and too much work to get started again we've spent a lot of time looking at possibilities and this seems to be our only reliable option of getting a center together so keeping track of the clock and all the other folks that have items and does it give you what you need if the board gives you that six month period for the report back and I guess the one thing that I'm unclear of is what the six month period for the report back is to take off the market but what in addition to that is there any commitment to structure is there anything that I can tell somebody who would then recruiting to that saying you know if we report back with a viable model then we're going to end the only thing that works with no cost or low cost lease that we're going to have to do that I guess that's the only part that I'm struggling with I'm not going to pass up anything you gave me six month report back is not really helpful for you without some sort of commitment because you really need to go back to somebody and say we have something to work with to take the next steps and if you don't have that you can't proceed it's tough to continue to ask the group of volunteers to proceed beyond because we've had those conversations we've identified grants that are out there but again I'm not going to pass up what we can get but I'm saying to really be able to do what we need to do in the next steps we need some level of commitment that the town is willing to give us a low cost low cost option if that's the most viable if that's the only way to get this started to move forward so I think you guys made a really good page one through five case for the need for childcare the day is there my challenge is and I agree with the childcare need my challenge is that you're asking the town to commit this kind of make this commitment for a potential of 275k which isn't happening in Seoul for about a while but to me item on page six and seven the current plan of actions is just super high level and if we were to say hey we're going to take it off the market for six months and we're going to commit to a low cost lease or no cost lease I don't want to see some sort of milestone schedule that says this is going to be done by here, here and here so that measurement is real as we go along the six month thing of we're just taking a potential of 275k and throwing it away for those six months a little bit and not throwing away the 275k because he's still on the building but if somebody came tomorrow we took it off the market we say we're going to take it off the market and there's no six months from now we're kind of at the same place or it's still unknown the challenge is we can't get to those milestones without being a group of person and I'm fine I'm personally I'm fine with saying six months and we commit to a no cost low cost whatever that may be in fact next month they say okay here's our plan of action over the next six months to get those things done so we hold to that because otherwise I never put in a proposal for any of my work without having a capture plan so that tells my management my stakeholders this is a good investment we should really go after it because this is a return this is a plan this is how you're going to measure our progress against that proposal or quote whatever that's all I'm concerned about six months to put a long time not having any information or a measurable milestones along that way but it's also not a long time yes you've got one that we have one you've got one that was coming back you have to get kind of remember what happened it was an issue and it's about another building in Middlebury and it's coming back in five years that's going to be getting pretty close pretty close I get that I haven't sold any of that and what I'm saying is it's seems like it's a long time I guess for a group of volunteers where you're getting people with volunteers who aren't the business owners who are just trying to do it for the benefit of the town it takes a long time to make any progress what are the milestones to the six months that's all I'm asking for you know when is B and C and D and E and F going to be done what are the projections it's okay to miss them but some measurable thing that says okay you come back in October and say we accomplished not only two things but the four things we have no way of knowing what measure of success is here so you're saying in terms of by our next minutes develops the plan of action recruiting the person to run the place identifying X, Y, Z grants that's easy enough to do that's all I'm asking is what is the plan and what are the goal lines to get there to measure that success when somebody comes from a sick community and says hey what are they doing with this this is what they're doing these are the measures and we really know that you guys make great progress in these six months and it makes a whole lot of sense and to me that would be measurable enough and that's easy for us to come back you know once we know the parameters that we're working with that we can start pursuing the loans which we've already started looking at but again we just hit the stalemate sure so if you need to come back and give us a commitment now but also with our commitment to come back in October and say here here what we're doing and what we've been doing and what we're doing over the next six months is just say it sounds like the town could easily find itself in a position where we are continuously funding this organization in terms of keeping the building open for them at no cost I don't think this ever got started and was providing good services I don't see us saying oh sorry we're going to close this down now because we're not getting the money we thought we were going to get one day and it could turn out to be an indefinite contribution from the town that's something that we shouldn't consider saying that we should make sure that's what we realize that we might be getting ourselves into and if we're talking about $15,000 or $25,000 a year indefinite in the future that's a subsidy that we're willing to take on for this I'm not so worried that there needs to be more numbers to make that decision so it's taking the commitment that we'll take it off the market for six months and that we'll enter into negotiations for low cost no cost lease but what that looks like we can't commit to that piece you've got utilities, you've got maintenance and repair on the building you've got a lot of different items that still would need to be hashed out and that's all going to play into your business plan because if we say here's a no cost low cost lease but power, heat all that's yours and any maintenance for building needs to keep it in at least its existing condition you're looking at more than utilities to put into your budget you're looking at what do I have to do for building maintenance on this structure that's why I need to know the parameters in order to and I think it's under the right conditions we would do that what are those conditions what do you want to do we can sit here and chase each other around we're not getting anywhere we've been at this almost an hour I think you can comfortably go forward and say I have some stuff homework to do to get a schedule they're giving us six months to come back and say what have you made for progress and if it is a situation that makes sense we're willing to entertain a no cost low cost arrangement but we don't know what that means I can't say we'll commit to $500 a month and we'll do all this these type of activities and you'll have these activities there's still a lot of variables even when you say we'll enter into that I agree which is exactly why we're here continuing to start with the progress of figuring out how we work out those variables in a way that doesn't have us losing a lot of but it's got to be fair to the taxpayers town government doesn't run child care usually so we're looking at getting into an area that we all agree is needed but how do we do that so it's fair to the taxpayers in Larry's point is a good one are we ready as a board to say we'll absorb a cost of $20,000 a year to subsidize this child care facility what happens when the next one comes in there's a lot of policy things here too that we have to look at then we would have hopefully have a model built so we would know what it looks like but they would say well where's our building I guess I would say there it depends on whether it was working or not at that point then we might be able to say hey this makes sense to do with five more buildings it didn't work this isn't working anywhere in the state now so we're trying to come up with a new model that hopefully will work that's going to take some risk on the part of the town then a lot of risk and time on our part is willing to pursue it so we just need to give the town to be able to give us enough of a commitment given the magnitude of the issue for the town do you feel that you have that now a lot to go on if the commitment let me just be clear the commitment is six months with the commitment to pursue a potential low cost option again considering that everything that we gather up makes sense as long as we have that memorandum of understanding or letter of intent to engage in those negotiations and good faith and that the low cost option or no cost option is on the table I can work with that it's just making sure that that is clearly on the table if you come up with somebody to run the place and a plan that looks like that it works Does anybody have any problems with that? No, I think no I think it's I just think that as much as we need this that it's probably not the town's responsibility providing childcare and that we can help get something started but I think that we need some to know that going in that there's some sort of exit strategy for the town that it's not going to cost us a quarter of a million dollars to get this done or that we're going to have five more to support down the road I would say I think part of my proposal is the commitment to have an extra exit strategy again if you have a viable plan I think at some time the town if that doesn't work out will have to decide you know, weigh those interests that I put in here as well and I agree with the town's got to decide what is the benefits of the childcare center stronger than the benefits of the money that they potentially might be costing to help support it on some level And that probably depends on which tax period you're talking If you came to the tech we didn't have this building, you came to the town and said well there's this empty building here we need the town to sign off on a loan for $275,000 and pay for all of it and definitely until we kind of figure it out we'll be kind of a hard sell but the difference is that we actually just have to build it we bought it we're sitting on it I understand I just want to try and give it the perspective that I think it deserves I agree with your perspective 100% but we have the building and we're trying to present it that makes a lot of sense and will bring more economic rewards to the town and I get that too grant opportunities and we've done this with other projects in the community so we sign our grant operations all the time for different things around here so in my mind this is the next big need and maybe we'll be the model community that makes it happen and other communities might be able to follow the model so Josh you said there's stuff coming up this fall there's some magnitude of dollars for the grant size this would fit it's the planning side of it though implementation looking at the building, what does it need the challenge is we need to get to the point where we can develop that business model to make it work because you can't do full out renovations to the building until you have that business model who's running it and how they want it to look the rooms and the sizes all depend on the age groups so but I gotta go one more question in our agreement with Fonalong are we allowed to take this off the market currently the current agreement with them expired after 6 months so at this point as far as we want to make sure we're gonna get on the hook for another 3 months or so so right now we have no representation on the building thank you next up is tax stabilization for property properties Lindsay and Keegan Hopp here to speak with Josh who's worked with Lindsay and Keegan on this potential request to the board Keegan Hopp then we're here to ask for the tax stabilization for the properties put in the new rec center to keep kids busy doing things putting these things yeah so we're looking we basically are looking to stabilize 6 part street where we currently have an apartment building and we're looking to put an addition of 6000 square feet onto that property so we're looking to stabilize that initial addition because it's going to be an indoor recreation space we tried like heck to make it non-profit and had zero luck so we're running profit but it means that we're not running on rent and those things so we really need to keep the costs reasonable especially for the first few years so that Mochito, which is basically us can come in and run that space and get it going so by stabilizing the tax it's going to make it much easier for us to make it a reasonable rent for the space so that we can house it with all the equipment that we need we've worked with a lot of people throughout the state we've worked with Vermont Economic Development Community and Bar Harbor Bank were the ones that helped us finally get the building going RACPC is going to play a neutral in helping us with our startup funds so we're meeting that community support and this is one of the ways that we can kind of help to make those first two years more doable for us I kind of think our project basically needs like every aspect of the tax stabilization in terms of it's giving a need for the community in terms of youth, adults those with health issues we're working with Claremont and our different medical center all the schools to provide daily and evening programs and stuff like that there it's going to provide jobs anywhere from one to like five or six depending on the size and it's going to bring people to town for reasons like Damien said which it gives families more things to do here which gives them reasons to come and work and live here and when you come here they'll hopefully use restaurants, get gas, you know do all the good things if we end up with a hotel someday it gives people something to come to the town for something else so that's how you kind of meet the basic demands of the stabilization requires I did not I thought we were discussing the same as we did with others No I think we would discuss a potential contract in the second session if there are some options yes maybe you could discuss the recreation activities that you're going to be offering in the center in some of the regular model yes so basically we're going to be looking at a few different uses the building is going to be set up in sort of three main sections there's going to be like a gymnastics style setup if anybody's ever been to summarized gymnastics in berry it's going to have like a rock wall springboard floor trampoline track onto a big jumpy air bag there will be the other side you can have turf space with batting cages that pull out and can push back in so you can do batting cages practice as well just use the turf for just anything you would use outside grass for so soccer, lacrosse, bocci it's basically half a soccer field inside so you can run drills on half a soccer field where you can set up a volleyball board out there the golf the batting cages are also golf driving range cages and then the upstairs of the space is going to have golf simulators in it as well as sort of like an adult workout space so the model kind of is built on memberships for families and individual use so families will be able to get a yearly membership to come in and use the facility when it's open and available they'll come in and pay your $10 because I'm in from out of town and I want to come and climb on a rock wall for a day so then the other big piece of the model is working with the community resources like we talked about so like Claremar and Gifford they have a lot of health related programs they want to run Diabetes, a walk for Diabetes for example is a program that a lot of like Y's around town will run and it's an opportunity for individuals with Diabetes to come in and walk which is really important for their health and group and there's huge studies that show it's successful but we don't have anywhere nine months out of the year that we can offer that because of our weather conditions so they have grant funding because they are a non-profit that they're going to be able to utilize to basically rent our facility space for a low cost we're going to keep it at under $100 an hour for any usages and same thing for other the rep department is another huge person who's going to utilize you know they like to offer gymnastics and tumbling and dance but there's not a lot of facilities for that and so they've been in agreement with wanting to utilize that space Youth Wrestling is another one that doesn't really have a great setup there in the cafeteria at the high school which just isn't ideal for many reasons so we're going to look at creating that as another option as well for them so there's a lot of the outside spaces that are going to be coming in and renting that's part of what's hopefully going to come some of our overhead down and it's really trying not to create any competition with anybody that's out there BTC offers a lot of great opportunities we're not going to be competing with many of those we're going to be hopefully offering additional things for their students and those that use our facilities will still be getting basketball and racquetball and those things that are different from what we offer I think that's kind of the main use to do is birthday parties, some of those we want to do some community events like movie nights in the middle of the winter when everybody could use to come and sit on what feels like grass and hang out with family and stuff like that so teen nights those are things that we hope to help maybe get sponsored by local businesses when I was a kid growing up here I was a teen center but it meant that you could get dropped off at Friday night from like 5-10 and you didn't have to see your parents and it was with a bunch of kids and we played pool and did other stuff we're hoping to encourage movement so it'll be rock climbing and playing golf or setting up a bunch of teenagers basically or like anything that's what the competition will do so we're going to work with the movement PBLs this year as well as some of the other private based learning that are at the high school our TCC is having students help us build sending students to help us build so it's pretty much as much of a community project as we could pretty much get Adolfo, did you refer to the points in the status stabilization policy I haven't actually seen that policy there is one that we have for the town for the board today but there is one that the town has that is a guideline for every organization that wants to look at that is this just for the addition or for the apartment building as well just for the addition it's all on piece of property so I think it will be looking at the entirety of it because it's all tax the same so it's looking at the fact that we'll be seeing a pretty big increase in that tax once that building is there the policy is the stabilization only applies to the enhanced families I think the purpose was to present and then you said you guys would get a chance to base on it and let us know but for us it was kind of like the purpose what's the project time like I think you guys started correct we have we have we're still hoping to be open sometime in January it looks more like the end of January now than the beginning that's what we're pushing for you know as long as we can get the permits to continue landing what are the additional permits we're just working with the division of fire and safety on the building right now we're closed when do you expect that week and a half we're gonna have to go exactly it's been a little bit of a back puddle of them but I think they're learning for something I've looked into much ahead of time if you're gonna do any sort of exchange into any building in the community because we're very close you're taking notes maybe yeah that's what I'm saying you want to get that involved first because it definitely yeah so we're hopefully within the next couple of weeks but everything is moving forward as we're putting the pieces into place everything continues to move forward Congress waiting for a call are they gonna be here for the executive session Josh again has been working with our representatives from RCDC who have also met with one or two members of the select board to discuss the Salisbury Square project at this point Julie would you like to share more with the board and potentially ask for assistance from the down? I don't know where to read this Julie do I'm gonna get a card no I'm kidding no I'm kidding Mr. Winnie knows me, Julia playing them with RACPC, I want to introduce also Peter Schneider and Peggy Hub we're from efficiency Vermont and we're gonna pop out with some of the presentation but that would be good since it's been a long time to sort of revisit what Salisbury Square is so Salisbury Square is a plant community it was on the former site of the old what they used to call the Ethan Allen plant number one which before that was the Salisbury Furniture Company it's about four and a half acres, well under four and a half acres in the village at the end of Salisbury Street and it was they abandoned pretty much a crime scene for a lot of years I think almost 20 years when we acquired it in 2006 and then there was a thanks to Two Rivers and a bunch of EPA funding there was an extensive period of characterizing the site and find out that it's had some brownfield issues that needed to be cleaned up work with the state and others to come up with the funds to do that and so we began to design and permit the site for a plant community of mixed income pedestrian friendly energy efficient homes and were permitted back in the way 2009 period for a total of 36 units 14 units of low income housing tax credit which is under 60% median income apartment housing and then 22 units of single family detached or attached home ownership units and the site is really one parcel but because the plant community has different sections some for the apartments some for the home ownership and then there's one historic building that we have to support the project so the cleanup is done the 14 apartments are built the first phase of the infrastructure is built the bookkeeping historic property is rehabbed and the permitting for that initial project is all was secured and we started over on 2009 which as you may remember was sort of a tragic year for the economy and a tragic sort of decade for the real estate market and so the way we had planned to develop it was no longer feasible some of the designs over time have become less feasible and so in about 2017 we started to re-envision the site as the market started getting better as you know loan funds and other funds started to flow a little better and also as the state started focusing a little more on home ownership incentives realizing that not just apartments needed incentivizing but because of because of the fact that the cost of building was increasing faster than people's ability to increase their income we had a funding gap from middle income people that was actually getting as severe as the crisis for lower income people so we hired some architects to look at a revised site plan and that's the plan that you see on the back page of this handout which is a little more pedestrian friendly a little more elbow room and we started to talk seriously with Efficiency Vermont and others about the concept of doing something a little different with the housing and making it net zero and net zero essentially just means that the in this case on the house is sized to cover the cost of the energy that the house would use and the concept is to again to try to get to a more affordable energy because there's a lot of energy poverty out there people who can maybe afford to pay for their home or their mortgage or their rent but they can't necessarily pay for the cost of heating and so these tend to be all electric homes and we have often now back up batteries in case of power outages but they're essentially no heating bill on an average year and so the you may have heard of the Vermont the Vermont was sort of the first Vermont business that made a turnkey net zero home and spent a lot of time looking into their product but since then it's become a real trend in real estate development and now we have at least three other three building companies regional who are able to produce net zero homes and I'll let Peter talk a little bit about that but essentially we're trying to get at a price point where we're the combination of funding that we can try to get make these products affordable for the average income person the state now is targeting what they call 80 to 120% median income the sort of bracket around the average home or household income in our region as a place where they want to invest some money to make those homes available there's very little I think as you know very little new home ownership development at all because of the cost unless it's stacked for someone as higher income because of the cost of development instead we're trying to now pull together the sort of phase two of this development to enable us to complete the project out about 18 units of housing mostly home ownership finish up the infrastructure and be able to have that be the neighborhood that it was designed to be initially and so as Amy was saying in this world where there are chickens and there are eggs and they're all roaming around and so we have been doing a lot of work on the potential feasibility what funders are out there who could pay for what excuse me what might the cost of these net zero homes be as a range because different home builders have different models and different ways of doing things and can we get that price point to the point where with this different grant funding programs or tax credit programs and subsidies that we can make it affordable and we think we are we are now finding that we can be in that zone but in order to do that the biggest impediment is that if you go to buy a house in town anywhere here you don't expect to have to buy a road too you don't expect to have to buy utilities too and so the big impediment for us is covering the cost of the infrastructure because that is still a pretty hefty price those prices have gone up and continue to go on up substantially since we started and while we started the infrastructure and have the first round of mains in for the water and the sewer and the first sort of loop of the road and some of the lighting and the loop road we have to buy our code is all underground required in that in that development and so the cost of that is something that we know we need to cover in grant funds and so to get to the point where the last bracket here is what are we asking from the town so obviously we'd like the support of the town because it's a big project it's an expensive project I think we already have about the first round of development there's also one house built that we built in 2012 that is an energy efficient but not a net-serial home so it's probably developing and guessing around $20,000 a year in tax base from that as well as we upgraded the water system for a whole part of that neighborhood that's now benefiting from that so it's it's not a brownfield it's not a currency it's developed with home it's partly the way there but to get all the way there we're going to need the support of the town with funders the support of the town just generally as we go to the various agencies that we need to do to get their support and we're also going to need to go to BCDP which is one of the big funding sources that funds housing and infrastructure and we're going to need to get a slug of contributing capital for them so one of the things we need from the town we're asking the town to support is to support that grant application within the next years we pull together some of the other funding sources because BCDP does like to be you know not one of the first but one of the later funding sources the sort of universe of funding sources that we're looking at right now just to name a few words we have applied to northern borders which is a relatively new funding source for our region we are applying to the HCB which is a housing conservation board which is traditionally funding apartment housing but is increasingly now opening itself up to funding private home ownership for median incomes we're working with efficiency we want to fund some of that to help us with a variety of things including the net zero standards but also things like incentives for the solar and some private foundation money as well so the other things that we are hoping to get the town support on is that since this was developed and I was at this in this exact seat I think in 2016 when the bylaws passed asking that asking that the PUD district plan unit development district being reinstated into the bylaws because in the bylaw revision it was removed and in the discussion it seemed like it was not removed with prejudice it just was removed because it was something that they didn't realize had been used I guess as much as it had been but there are at least three to five developments in town that were permitted with the plan unit development district and now we are sort of you know without that supporting zoning in the bylaws so we are going to ask that that be again that that be supported as reinstating the bylaws and finally the there is a timeline to the sewer and water allocation we spent something on the order of I think 60 or $70,000 getting our sewer and water allocation of this project the entire project at once because it couldn't be pieced apart by phases at the time at least but that has an expiration date that can be extended by the town as I understand the regulations and we are asking without the extended so that we don't have to come up with another 30 or 60 or whatever it is now $1000 in infrastructure development allocation costs here we are going to talk a few minutes about the designs sure efficiency Vermont just one to be here we spend a lot of time with Julie and RISNC this is just larger so you have a chance to look at it and then I'll also just give just some examples of the designs but we've been supporting yes we've been supporting this type of housing floor pans design options to give you a sense and supporting high performance homes for a better part of the last two decades it's always a work in progress so things have changed over the last two decades I'd say 10 years ago we did our first sort of zero energy modular home with preferred building systems that are out of Claremont, New Hampshire and since that time we've been replicating that model working with various factories in New England they don't want to deliver too far so we typically are working with folks here in Vermont Julie mentioned Vermont but Huntington homes in East Montpelier preferred building systems has also become New England homes as well and then we've got a couple in New Hampshire and Maine KBS homes in South Paris, Maine which is in Key, New Hampshire all perfectly capable of building and they're becoming far more common orders for them so markets sort of driving them to provide these but what we found we've done a lot of post occupancy and research going into homes we've done a bunch of sort of market evaluations as well and we're just finding that there's a greater demand and the folks that are living in these homes are really happy not just with the energy efficiency it's really nice that you get your electric bill and you have as much of a credit as you do with regards to your usage but also on the comfort side, perceived indoor air quality, those are all much better and then as Julie mentioned we are starting to put battery storage into homes, Green Mountain Power has a great residential battery program you may have heard of like the Tesla Powerwall but we can now with these all electric homes install a really affordable battery into these homes power goes out, these homes can continue to operate with their electric heating and cooling systems ventilation systems, refrigerator keeps going, lights for instance so the resiliency there as well as we have more severe weather events both in the summer with really hot humid days also in the winter with those polar vortexes we've seen the last couple of years this is just becoming more important providing that safety so I'm just here to answer any questions, Phoebe how's well you know we have we're about to deliver under our zero energy modular program, our 100th home just in the last four years we've been monitoring most of those homes and have found you know we have folks who use less than they produce so they have a credit and they've even been allocating that to family members through what's called group net metering and then we have folks who use more energy than they produce but that's because they're finally in a home for instance that has conditioning or they can finally afford that freezer that they've always wanted that they add to their home but overall we're finding that these homes are really performing well as I said across that spectrum of energy comfort, indoor air quality and resilience and this for us is a really exciting project we have done a couple of developments we have 13 units in the development up in Hardwick another 14 in Walfam we've done some higher market rate zero energy communities as well but one like this downtown in the village that will be a mix of rental and home ownership and also meeting a real broad income spectrum in regards to the home buyers and renters is really unique so we're just here to just provide support to Julie and again answer any questions in regards to the housing and the support that we provide moving forward thanks Peter what do you find out about the resale value well if you look nationally homes that are meeting energy efficiency standards are selling for more than homes that don't so if you carry the energy star home certification for instance for zero energy ready home which is the department of energy standard your home can sell for more 10 to 15 percent has been shown what we're finding here is we're installing homes a lot of people don't believe these homes to be perfectly honest we were just talking about this in a meeting that even younger couples that might be getting into first time home ownership are talking about dying in these homes so there's just a longer term in regards so we don't have a lot of turnover a lot of folks have invested in these homes and haven't moved and we've really been seeing these innovative energy efficient quote unquote green homes over the last decade about more and more that changed hands but what we've seen nationally in regards to that trend is a higher market evaluation and higher sales price than you'd see with typical code construction so if we're looking at the market proof that you have for these fast forward 20-30 years the solar panels have to be replaced how are they going to afford to dispose of the first ones which is quite pricey and buy new ones and replace them I could just speak to that again I think can we see some of this in Europe real innovative ways in which they're recycling even PVC windows for example here they end up in the landfill in the number of western Europe countries they're required to be recycled and they're able to recycle every bit of that with solar panels just to give you an idea if there's anything going into a house with a great warranty it's the solar panels those are warranty for 25 years with 80% production based on the rated capacity of 25 years just to give you a comparison the hot water here is typically a year in your house or the heat pump might be 10 years or 12 years at the most same with boilers so as far as warranty and longevity the solar panels are definitely up there but it's a really good question in regards to making sure that these homes are affordable as things need to be fixed or broken to go to the end of life they're not forever so we get to the end of their useful life we have a couple who in their first time homeowners they've acquired it however stretched about making what's coming in is going out and now all of a sudden we're at the end of the useful life of these solar panels how do they afford some of those additional costs well I'll just speak to you so where we're going to be going if you look at our states comprehensive energy plan as an example and you also look at the price of solar so you wouldn't need to replace the racking you'd replace the inverters that basically manage the electricity that the solar panels are producing and the solar panels let's say in 20 years that system needs to be replaced it'll be a fraction of the cost of the system today and very likely we'll see policies within the state that significantly reduce that cost further because we're going to need to be generating renewable you know safe sustainable energy so that may not be the case with some things in the house right the roof itself may have a 30 to 50 year life expectancy that's something that probably won't be subsidized or will reduce in cost very much so those are things I'd be more worried about in regards to long-term maintenance but that's pretty common across all housing types whether it's zero energy modular or it's just a typical code home so I think that what we're providing and I've seen this following a few houses now for 10 years very closely that these homes have lower maintenance we don't have fossil fuel based appliances they need less maintenance there's less cleaning of them and we're seeing so less maintenance on a main annual basis you know fossil fuel oil based boiler for instance or furnace really should see at least one if not two services a year at say $200 the heat pumps that we're installing it might be every two years you'll have one service that's typically less expensive than that one service on a fossil fuel based piece of equipment just because it's less taxing the way those operate so I think the other one of the other things to remember is that I think the dubious distinction of having the oldest housing stock in the country and so the alternative is to buy something that's older that will not necessarily have the energy efficiency or not have the same level of energy efficiency and will still need the upgrades that are typical to just any obsolescence in any home so the average I think savings that they quote for the difference between like a net zero and an energy efficient home even is about $2,300 a year not everyone will set aside that as they maybe should thinking about reserves in the future but there's the opportunity to do that because you have the savings on the front end that essentially the capital has bought you and what we're trying to do is to get that capital cost down to a point where the average person not the high end person but the more average person can get in that home and starts to reap the benefits of that savings and and the air quality that Peter mentioned and all those other benefits that are you know really tangible benefits so you're thinking that when it comes time to dispose of the solar panels more or less that the state's going to step in and subsidize that who's going to sub, we just put in a solar department and one of the panels came through defective and I will tell you it was not cheap for them to deal with that it had to be all packaged in special material and put into crates and a special truck came to get it and I'm just thinking you know you sell this to these people that it's oh it's dead zero you're going to save money and it's all but there's this hidden piece there that in a regular house you know it you know your windows are going to last this long and what not but these solar panels not everybody understands that when something goes wrong with them it's not cheap to get rid of the one that's defective or has the problem and get a new one in there to replace it it's not you know a door I can take the door out send it to wherever and put a new door in and that's not the case with these. I was just going to say I think that's a really important consideration with any new construction one of the benefits of this collaboration that we have between efficiency Vermont, local affordable housing groups and whichever builder or builders we might work with is sort of the commitment to working with homeowners so in other projects that efficiency Vermont has been involved in you know we don't leave after the last person who's in or they're assisting with service needs helping connect people to contractors working with builders to make sure that warranties are honored so stepping in to really facilitate any challenges that do come up and then the other thing that I talked to folks a lot about and this actually speaks to the result question as well people are you know wondering about this the first time they've had a heat pump in their home they're you know wondering how it's going to sell in 30 years and I talked to folks about this type of construction is the home of 2030 2040 2050 today so none of the technology that's going into these homes is brand brand new this is stuff that's been used in Vermont for at least the past 10 years so we've had experience with it both sort of with the efficiency Vermont as well as kind of socially thinking about when it comes time to replace that solar to get that new heat pump to sell your home that is going to be sort of a mass market appliance technology but also consumer demand you know for somebody who's coming in looking to buy a new home so we're really sort of getting folks prepared for that home of 2050 today but not in a crazy internet connected voice controlled way it's about tried and true technologies that really benefit people's comfort health resiliency what's the plan for starting continuing finishing what is that timeline three year five year ten year take two to three year sale period and we would try to do some pre-sales once we have the design we have now one of the chicken and egg things that was some of the funding sources until you get through a certain part of the grant application you can't even put the RFP out to so we know we've done enough work thanks to help from here so that we know who's out there that can go over these these homes in our region who's interested and we have a lot of interest from at least three of those builders but we can't even put an RFP out until we were just talking with the daughter recently about and Josh about you know starting one of these processes so that we can get to where we can even do the RFP without losing the opportunity to the grant but once the designs are in place and we know what we can deliver at what price having got at least some of the funding rounds then we'll be able to show people what we can offer and start taking three sales until then that's going to be hard we're also looking at a funder who may help us with a model home so that we can actually show people we have the little Vermont which is like a tiny version on a cart but that we want to be able to have you know an actual design and tell them if people can go and then look and see what they can buy on site and what does it mean to put 18 new houses on the market? we're actually in the process of having more market updated market studies done now but a few things for those units right now we're targeting at the next highest level of rental so it would be the 60 to 80 percent median income of the people who maybe aren't quite ready to go into homes but are making too much to go into them having apartments that are there already so a few of those would be that middle range sort of on their way to home ownership and then the rest so we're talking about you know something like 12 to 14 of these homes and that's between now and 2023 I think they're projecting 30 homes on the market depending on which study you use and we're having a market study done now but clearly the advice that we are working with now is saying that people are looking for new they're not finding any especially people who are trending downtown which is younger and older buyers and there's just not a lot out there so we think that this is the product that is really missing at a price point we're just just unattainable for this kind of product and that's what we're hoping that's the gap that we're hoping to fill again with the help of these programs that also recognize that this is something that you can't just do the normal way you will the market way because the market is just not supporting it I'll just also just speak to Evie and I spend a lot of time in our model homes around the state and communities I just was in Middlebury in our model home for about 5 weeks and we posted some of these designs with the Salisbury Square site plan just to get folks sort of it was up on the wall just sort of see what people said and a lot of people were just asking where is this this is I would move there if I could live in a community like this with this type of home because it really doesn't exist so I do think that and we've seen this with other homes we've had some model homes that we've put out there as spec homes and we've drawn folks from other communities just to that home because they can't find that type of home somewhere else and they don't want to build one they just like to have that home that's offered on the market so I do think that there's going to be an element where we draw in I spend a good deal of time in Bristol, Vermont there's a new community there very similar to this it has a co-housing element but it has community green space community gardens there's a community building just like the bookkeeping house that's at Salisbury Square right now that filled up very quickly has a very similar feel and you know no empty units there with a waiting list of folks who are looking to get it I mean did we come to a I wasn't clear if we came to a conclusion the consensus we're not going to renew our real estate agreement currently I was just getting that sense okay and I think that they're kind of sending you off to maybe put a little bit more together so that we can chat about it and then become a little more concrete about what you mean I think that's where we're at so the commitment I have right now is not to renew the real estate we have to I just want to make sure there's something concrete there was some back and forth I think you got a support for it is my understanding so I think that we're behind the project we just need a little more detail to figure out how I just wanted to make sure I didn't need a motion to make sure that you're okay I think you can move along I think you can keep moving forward thanks David thank you so yes it should be in your packets yeah the proposal is for arts and culture committee it's at the very back because we've relocated it to item D so one pager and it has it's stuck behind the window yeah that's right it's an action item thank you we town staff have been we had a meeting with Susanna Colby who's your representing the community group that's interested in creating the arts and culture committee the meeting included Susanna included Sonny Holt was the local resident and our chair for the planning commission as well as Tom Ayers formerly from the Chandler and Susanna is here to talk a little bit more about the committee's interest in the proposal work thank you so we wanted to put together a committee to look at how we could represent the arts in the town of Randolph and help connect the different art centers make this like a hub for the arts and culture in the area there's a lot of artists in this area been putting together some through the art passports some gatherings and there's just a really big interest in getting some things going in this town and collaborating with different partnerships in the town to bring the arts to the front through sculpture gardens through murals through different projects and we just haven't been able to do that on our own so we're looking to put this together this committee together to make it a stronger form a stronger committee to make these things happen because right now I'm trying to do it on my own it's been a lot of work and really hard to do and if I could add to it Susanna one of the point of confusion that I have when sharing this with the board is that the group went away and actually pulled together a proposal to share with the board that included prospective members and the commission statement was much more concrete than this action item that I pulled together to share with you so my apologies for not presenting that to you but it was a very detailed proposal that included potential members in the community that was part of the email that we got did you get it? I just got back yesterday from traveling okay so we had a little pet line but we have 12 potential members from the community and spreading throughout all the different arts there's sculptors, muralists, writers and we want to put together a five-year plan to cope with how we can potentially beautify our community and make it a location where people want to come because of what we offer so is this an interaction with Chandler or is it just what is that relationship is there a relationship there or is it something separate? it would be pulling in Chandler it would be pulling in the craft center trying to get everybody to work together because right now you have independent places kind of doing their own things and I think it would be a lot stronger if we had somebody to help pull them all together so we could make this just provide arts community it started to creep down Forest Street you want this to be a formal committee under the select board where we appoint people yes there's nothing I'd have told me so Tom and Sunny we go with odd numbers for obvious reasons for voting purposes so you don't have a tie and they're usually between five and nine on there but it can't be more if you get too big a crowd it gets a little harder it gets a little out of load because we've been kind of apart we've been traveling we haven't talked to all of the members they were just potential members we had Sunny, Tom and myself as being definite but then we wanted to figure out who the rest of the members are so when the East Rand up one that we just created they had like twelve or thirteen that came all the time and we just narrowed it down and said you know we're not saying you can't be there it's just come on in share be part of it but this is your quarter sure and I think what we're looking at is trying to make it as diverse as possible too because there's a lot of different kinds of art right with Tom being an executive position myself being a painter Sunny being a writer to try to make sure that we represent all the different arts so we're thinking about all of that there's the music component there's the sculpture component there's the painting component graphic design I think it's a great idea we're just part of it so we don't have the members great we have the pop if the board would like we could appoint the initial three members which would be Tom Susanna and Sunny and then potentially leave four positions open then be appointed later on as a committee so in the term of two or three years I'll hang in here I'll be in your mouth we probably should advertise through the summits yeah we you had to send me at least people oh no and we had some more that we came up with after there's so many people in the community so yeah it would definitely be a great idea just to see who wants to do this and who's out there that's going to do it well they can come and join you too they don't have to be on the committee you don't get any work I saw this in the R3 meetings there was a strong sense that the arts community needed to be represented and I kind of thought that after the meetings that group was decided that group was going to form their own little thing and start to gel up and start to see more but I'm not really sure that happened but I think this is a way to get that to happen I got put as the chair of that task force and I have pulled together what we've called the Art of Shindig which we had almost like 30 people come from the community as a potluck and just a way to communicate with each other what we wanted for our community for the arts so they're out there it's just I work you do know you'll have to go to Adelpho's meetings orderly to share information with other people in the community too a chair of a committee so I would just like to say given the importance for having a diversity of different people in this community I wonder if it makes sense to err on the side of it being too big rather than too small because even though it's anybody who comes to these meetings and being a member doesn't really give you a whole lot of extra weight because a lot of times these committees don't really vote very often it does seem to be the case though that people who aren't official members tend not to show up so if you can make more people official members and make the community bigger I would say maybe try to make a nine member I can give you a nine member committee and we get a point three of you and then when you come back with the rest of the names if you want more than none we can increase the size at that point that'll give us some time to look over you know really kind of sit down and look over who's available right yes that sounds great so we have three do we put them all on just for a multi-year term knowing that we got more coming that we can fill in the one and two to it does it need to be set up that way can you just be people who you just appoint every year re-appointed I think you just do if you pick nine you could do three year terms you could stagger them so you've got you know we just wonder if we're going to need to set up set up terms they just stay on until they run a resign I'm fine with that too which is what's going to happen anyway I got two more years of my time I can't resign because you're just trying to figure out who's term so they could just be appointed then somebody decides to be off or moved and then you just re-appoint I'm fine with that that keeps it easier can I make a motion is all you sure we create an arts and culture arts and culture community initially composed of nine members with three members forming the initial group who are going to be Sonny Sonny, Tom, and myself, Susanna can you state their last names Sonny, Tom, Tom, Aris, and Susanna, Colby Tom, can you state which are the first names you said Colby Colby and Cat the second motion and a second all those in favor they're on your way thank you don't forget to come to the cheer meeting yes you need to clamorate with the rest of these people so we can get art in the forest and the rec committee yeah great ideas alright next up we have an assembly permit application for the new format has not changed the same format we have shared the proposal with all the necessary groups police department, fire we have had a response to safety a confirmation that they would like a deputy at the festival just to make sure that everyone is covered the signature of our signature page is not included on it but we're still working on collecting same setup as last year same setup, yeah do we have any street closure main street except for we don't have it on here the traffic goes around street all the way across right it doesn't show them closing the way they don't talk about it closing imagine if you want that many people in that area would be working on that how will the children paint traffic on the road it kind of alludes to it with the traffic control for Princeton meeting plus and the main there it's a new information the plan would be to close that section of main street even if they are choosing a different format I feel that it would be important to close it oh sure I'll make a motion to agree on that second all in favor aye opposed staying motion carries in your packets Tim's here to answer any questions if the board needs questions answered this is a draft lease agreement that has not been commented on by the Randolph-Senator Fire Association it has recently been shared with our representative from a lot of the cities and towns just to make sure that with the understanding that it is a draft that they would be okay with this being the agreement that they have in mind Tim is here if you would like to provide comments or just authorize us to go with this lease agreement that could be possible but otherwise the intent of this being your package is just to show that progress is being made on the insurance issue and that conversations continue between the town and the Randolph-Senator Fire Association any comments I have on and I will send the email I'll wait until Tuesday next meeting if Tuesday works yet yeah okay so this is just an awareness well we're an awareness Tim that was an easy one that was an easy one for yourself good a little luck now we're on half of it notice of violation of discussion there thank you Tim there are two properties that several properties in town that have been reported on on a regular basis but there are two in particular that continue to be brought up one is on Heber Hill believe the address is 390 Heber Hill and the other is on Dudley Street I did not include photographs of either of the properties in your back it's to both have visible violations of the jump-carried solid waste which includes construction debris includes tires includes appliances so on Rich the Curse right exactly so this letter is would essentially be the second step I'm still working with our enforcement officer Milo Cutler to determine exactly what steps have been taken in the past to notify the residents of these violations we have found that our record keeping and or connections to these properties have been made very unofficially through telephone calls text messages and or on-site visits with not an official letter being sent to the property owners so although the letter in front of you is very strongly worded and it would lead to potential fines this would be the next step the first step for these two properties would be acknowledging that the issue has existed for several years acknowledging that our staff have attempted to work with these two property owners to clean the property set the record and if attention isn't paid to the issue with a designated amount of time the time frame I have in mind is 30 days 2045 for these two properties would then lead to this potential second letter which is more of a targeted immediate response correct the issue or it's not intended to be a way to raise revenue for the town the intent is to clean the properties if the property owner comes to us and says or shows an actual intent to clean the riders with reasons why they can't do it and establishes a plan for cleanup would be more than willing to work with them and bring it to the board you have the conversation in the form of a matter but there are for the most part these two properties for my short period with the time my short period with the town they haven't shown any willingness to actually correct violations so these fees the offenses measured in 30 days with this letter the fees would be applied on a daily basis until the issue so the one that would because we have we don't have the record the official record of writing letters the two properties that I mentioned so it's $50 a day Marty's got the letters yeah Marty this was back yeah this goes back someone can go back 8-9 years where letters were initially but anyway I still don't understand the fees $50 first offenses first offense would be $50 fee per day the issue would revolve second offense if let's say for example okay I'm not sure that maybe I miss evidence that is clear on here per day the statement the last sentence in the paragraph would be a daily financial a daily financial so if they were to if they had an issue and then they cured it which is what the policy calls cleaning it up they cured it and then they continued to have the problem again and then we notified them again a second time of the issue then they would fall under the second offense and then it would be $100 per day and then the issue would resolve and then if they resolved the issue it's completely gone and then we start the issue again then it would fall under the third offense $150 per day so what did you like to follow under the second one? the second court well we did take them to court we have the right to send a large file on that the issue is that with Dudley that the issue was brought up or the bylaw the solid waste and gender ordinance was created so there is a gray area of whether it is their first offense under the bylaw or under the ordinance we could potentially say well no it was a long-running issue so it's grandfathered in this is actually the fourth or fifth attempt at the time to clean it up they could potentially come back and say well no is it the first offense under the solid waste and gender ordinance $150 per day I guess my concern is if I have, if I got a letter right and I said okay I'm going to take care of this I call up Cassell to get a dumpster like all right we'll get you one in four days a week whatever or it's a Monday now the dump's not open until Thursday or Friday whatever day it is we're finding them daily at that point well the letter would give them it would be 30 days as of the post mark on the letter the letter doesn't go out until after you've already tried to reach them it's already been some levels of discussion this is when you finally just can't get any response this is just to force the issue so the initial letter would notify them of this fee if they don't comply would notify them of it wouldn't initially start out with the schedule for fees it would say you've discovered an issue it's been a long-running issue you have a certain amount of time to contact the town how you're going to clean it up in the time frame and if they don't then come to us and say this is how I'm going to clean it up this is any three months any four months if they don't approach the town to set up a cleanup plan or if they do and say we're not going to clean it up then we can send a second letter saying you approach us on this day you said you wouldn't clean it this is the violation schedule on the daily charge it would get if you don't clean it up so every attempt would be made to get them to clean it before the violation before we start finding them and if they choose not to clean it up or if they choose not to contact us to create a plan then we would start finding them and how do you collect on the fine so just going definitely or how does that work? that is something that I'm going to work with our state legislatures to correct it my next step is I don't want to run into this daily cycle of we're just accumulating fines if they never pay they never pay I'm going to have some help from our state legislatures that would potentially add this fee to the utility non-payment fee or the tax non-payment fee where this could lead to a potential property tax sale so this way there's an incentive that's not something that our state legislatures have committed to doing but it's something that I intend to ask them for help on being able to clear this property there's no enforcement there's nothing there you're the enforcement officer so there's so there's so somebody could simply say I'm not going to pay it and that's that there's no no recourse do you even go to court? having the ability to do a tax sale or you know gets us out of the whole process right that's only through court which is what we've done on Dudley Street that's not enough well look where Brookfield is but the one they've got on 14 they've won in court how many times and it's just so costly for them to go in and take the property that they don't want to and you can get into those cases and you can take a lot of money when they're through the courts and then you have to become responsible for the environmental issues that are already in this property so now you can bust yourself a bigger group I'm just wondering whether this schedule of offenses is much more complicated than we needed to be if you don't do it within the period of time it's a fee for a per day and that's the fee there's no record consult the record how many offenses has this been going back through the files a lot less work it's just if the letter takes effect it's $100 a day some number that makes it similar in here and it's just very much simpler I could certainly little this down this wouldn't be the primary contact the course that we decided to take was to take a step back from this until we get to the actual record and this is definitely draft we could certainly little this down to much more simple clean it or that's my honest suggestion so this portion was just to share with the board that this is something that SAF was really focused on it's been brought up on several occasions that it is a quality of life issue for the neighbors for the neighbors but every attempt is going to be made to work with the owners and try to get them to clean up I understand this is just when it comes to like nothing's working and we need to severely push the issue yeah good idea the trans standards for road convergence this will require emotion from the board if it chooses to move forward with this what has happened is every believe it's every five years V-trans has updated standards and asked municipalities to update their standards so we're all in compliance with V-train road and bridge standards what has happened recently is that I'm not sure why V-trans is I'm not sure why FEMA has approached V-trans to do this but I do know that V-trans is cutting its initial timetable short to approve this new version of the town road and bridge standards and the reason why they're asking the town to do that is because FEMA has approached V-trans and has told V-trans we understand that you have a bridge and road standards we also understand that you have what's called municipal roads forget the term municipal roads grant general permit but FEMA has told V-trans they only want to recognize one document which is the bridge and road standards so V-trans solution to this is to combine both the whole standards and the municipal roads general permit and create one document with then it's all inclusive and it's everything that FEMA wants to see when they come in to help cure a natural disaster incident that occurred and they recognize that remand is in lockstep with what FEMA wants when they show up to help put some of these communities back together the new standards again is it's marrying both the 2013 version of the roads and bridge standards with the existing municipal roads general permit which the town is in compliance and it adopted the 2013 standards it's in compliance with the municipal roads general permit we pay for our licensing for it and we're in full compliance and if the board would like I could go through every one of these sections and say where it is in the municipal roads general permit or tell the board that this is consistent with the 2013 standards but everything in here is probably the 2013 standards or the municipal roads general permit of which the town is is in compliance I guess we do it now if we do it well the 2013 standards aren't in effect until August 1st those will expire if the board takes no action on this as of August 1st going forward we will not be in compliance because we don't have the new standards adopted but if the board adopts them now we will be in compliance going forward as of August 1st as right now we're in compliance because everything is recognized through the new standards from the state of the future for the April storms from April 15th we're in compliance and we are eligible for it so if the board were so inclined we would just need a motion to approve the new standards the bridge and road standards issued by e-trains that authorized me to sign and then I could sign it select the board that's the sign select the board to check on moves we approve the new standards I want more second you shouldn't second August in favor I should have a signature page of this in here in the folder it's over a road project bid we had one bidder we had one bidder and the one bidder it's a supplier of everybody's paper and the one bidder feels that it was the quick turnaround that the town required that led to them being the only bidder that we've had worked done by them in the past Furnished Street Pike Industries Furnished Street was performed by Pike and they came in just slightly above budget but that was something that explained to us well before we actually had gone through the process and it was only above budget by $800 and we felt very confident that Pike Industries when they submit a bid they they're full on on target they can do it in four days not a lot of disruption for what they've got to do so we're done before school we're done before school okay we feel very confident in their work so that just goes from the intersection 66 it goes all the way across and that is for a includes the why there includes the why and it would cover $100,000 of it is being covered through Class II Road Grantham for the select that is already here the motion to approve the bid say it all those in favor all those in favor all those in favor all those in favor all those in favor all those in favor All does this check滿 check stabilization for GMEDC? Yes I have票 copies of taxabilization agreement the change in this document to what had previously shared with the board is the board's request to change for to tie the town standards to that the GMEVC has to abide by an LED has to abide by. And that would be found in section six, when the material changes. Our town attorney reviewed this material, provided comment, worked with Josh directly on this particular agreement. It has been reviewed and approved by GMEVC. It is about as tight as I think we'd be able to get it with all parties agreeing to it. Tax time-stable remains the same of the first five years of zero tax with an incremental increase beginning on year six. So what do you need on this? We would just need a motion from the board to approve the tax transition agreement and the belief signatures are select what signatures are required. So moved. Second. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Opposed? Abstain? Opposed, carries. Other business? No other business. Manager's report. I'll keep it brief. You were really small in that one. Yeah. I did. The town swimming pool is now open. We've had videos that we've, and pictures posted online. One kid's running in. One kid jumped the gun and he was a small kid. He ran in and then was completely overtaken by all the others. So it was interesting to see. One of the last ones to run in was my granddaughter. Oh, was she really? Like, I thought that every was like, oh, there she is. Yeah, she is. So we're very happy that the pool is finally open and things are working out. There is a plan to keep the pool open beyond the school starting up again so that's how we can enjoy as much of the heat in the pool as possible. The plan will be most likely weekends and then also post school hours depending on what our lifers can actually do. But the idea is to keep it open as long as possible. Yep. And to paint it in the off season. Yeah, absolutely. There are some issues that still exist that are unrelated to the piping weeks, but there's still some time to work on. Something that needs to be fairly costly. Yeah, there's still some maintenance. We have announced the position that's open for zoning administrator and housing. I'm sorry, not housing. Health officer. We then discovered that a different town also took our entire job title. So I think we're on the right track when we're being copied. Plagiarism? Yeah, yeah. Tribute. We wanted to do the work too. Yeah, right, yeah. We have not received any announcements yet, but we are confident that we'll solve the issue very soon. There is still the issue of the regional plan that's being updated by Two Rivers Articucci, our regional planning commission. We've submitted comments to the Two Rivers staff. They have informed us that some of the comments that I had submitted to them have been accepted. They've also said that some of the comments they're not going to accept. They didn't provide me with which, or confirmation of which have accepted which have not been accepted. There was a hearing scheduled, or hearing held this week, and actually one held tonight, which we couldn't attend tonight, but I have received confirmation from Two Rivers staff that comments will be collected up until the August, I believe it's August 4th deadline. So we'll continue to work with them just to make sure that kind of Randolph's needs are represented in the regional plan in general. We have had six months now under the new contract with the sheriff. So we're hoping to have a conversation with Sheriff Pontiac very soon to have him come in and share an update with the select board on some of the prime stats that exist for the town. With every billing and voice that the town receives on a monthly basis, we receive statistics from the Sheriff's Department context with the public, where they're going, why they're going there. So it's a big change to what we had before versus what we have now. And now we have more targeted information to see the decalculated trucks too. Yes, we finalized the sale of all the equipment. So we now are free of all police equipment, which is great. So, good to check what we receive. But I'll ask the Sheriff to come in or one of his representatives to come in potentially for the next select board meeting or brief for the board. We had a productive meeting. Josh and I with the R3 chairs committee to discuss the positive federal reserves working communities challenge. We are hoping to have a coalition come together so that we could apply to be members of this working community challenge. It includes, I believe it includes money to out plan, out coordinate, to essentially mimic for the most part the R3 process, only now it includes a considerable amount of funding so that we can move more towards our goal. We plan to again make this a coalition because the application process really looks for communities of 6,000 people or more. We do feel that many of our local towns will help us to exceed that population. So we're looking forward to having an application submitted once the RFEs send out so that we can apply and pull that together. RFPs send it to the end of the fall. Yeah, probably, you know, October, late November, late December. Okay. And before it's released we can bring it to the board for you. What does it go, can you say that? The working community group essentially helps us to come together with different committees so that we could establish more long term range goals for economic development or I think any, pretty much any goal that we have that we'd like to pull together. And once we have these goals put into place we will then be partnered with representatives from federal agencies or nonprofit groups that will come in and consult for us and help us through the process. And it's not just these representatives that will come in and guide our specific groups to fulfill their goals, but it also comes with funding so that we could potentially pay a consultant to do an additional work or pay for a different planning portion of it. That would be one of the key differences between R3 and working community challenges the dedicated fund is. Money, right? Money comes with money. So we're confident that we can pull something together for that application process. We have had no significant movement with the ongoing conversation with Northfield Ambulance Service. The last meeting I had with them was very productive. They felt that they could pull together a plan that would be presented to the select board in the future and the plan would discuss potential costs for Ambulance Service through Northfield, potential location for the ambulance where they feel would be more beneficial. So many of them would say that they feel very strongly about potential being a Randolph Center. They could potentially partner with Vermont Technical College of BTC with their EMT program. They also have what could be a potential bay in Vermont Technical College's quality fire science academy, which is no longer going to be at a Randolph campus stuff, their options. They also explained to me why, even though they differ from Warbub in that Northfield Ambulance does not have paramedic service, they also explained to me that paramedic service is mostly necessary when you have vast territory to cover, which is exactly the model that Warbub operates in and that it has a very large territory. It takes them much longer to get to certain parts of their territory. And in our case, it took upwards of 40 minutes to reach their base over East Randolph, which is why paramedic would be necessary. But if we have an ambulance base in Randolph Center that could reach either part of our town in the fraction of the town, we would not need paramedic service. But that's part of an ongoing conversation, just be picking somebody up and just running them to the hospital, exactly. So just a level of care to stabilize somebody and not be on that. Exactly. That's interesting. So one question, I don't know, but that's what I knew about it. You know, most of the staff, I know are students. Is that still the case? Do they have issues with staffing during the summer months when the students are gone? They haven't shared any staffing concerns with me. They feel that they would be competent enough to staff the ambulance on a regular basis. They would have to hire more personnel, but they felt that they could meet our needs and it would be 24-hour coverage. That, of course, felt part of preliminary conversations as opposed to everything on paper and they're still looking at numbers on there and to give us a potential price point for the service that we would like versus a service that they can provide. I think that'd be good too when we get to that point is to have like that, you know, when we go by insurance, we're gonna side-by-side in comparison to the policies. What service are we getting? What is the expectation compared to the cost? Yeah, is that heat-buy insurance is cheaper for you? Three times the total. Yeah. I'll share more information when it comes to the help of you. And the last point I'd like to just share with the board is that we've had ongoing conversations with several community groups. They include Chandler, it includes our ACDC, it includes Randolph Center Area Fire Association. The conversations, ongoing meetings, and interactions vary where they are. For the most part, they're all moving in a direction of being able to solve whatever perceived issues there may be. There could still be some issues that we have to iron out in the long run, but for the most part, we remain engaged with these groups. We remain actively speaking with them and at the very least addressing issues that have existed in the past in order to potentially solve them in the future. In the case of Chandler, I felt that the last meeting was very productive. They have agreed to change some of the pricing models for some of their seats. They've agreed to have more children programming, more family programming to bring in more people. They're willing to work with the town to potentially incorporate some of our time events and potentially end over at Chandler so they could make them seem less of an outlier and more of an inclusive group. They seem very receptive. They have the younger members of their board. They're also working with us on these issues. We feel very confident that change is coming, positive change. And that's it. But I have four managers, your point. Maintain a motion to go into an executive session, but we have two issues, the draft settlement agreement and then the tax stabilization agreement. For the tax stabilization agreement, we should have adults, oh, Josh, and we can then do that one first and then move Josh to the curve and I guess he'd like to go out of here, I'm sure. Sure, I'll make the motion to go into executive session and keep the don't phone and Josh for that purpose. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye.