 Can you just say something? Yes, we can hear you. Okay, perfect. I can hear you. I can hear you now. All right, now we're rocking and rolling. All right. And I'm here too, Ryan. Oh, they didn't cut your mic yet, Marilyn. Just to... All right. First time of business, approve the minutes from August 12th or previous meeting. So move. Second. Motion by Marilyn, second by Dean. Any questions on the minutes from our previous meeting? Seeing none, all those in favor of approving the minutes, please state aye. Aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? Chair votes aye. Those minutes are approved. All right, 3.1, RO number 472021, submitting various license applications for the period ending April 14th, 2021, June 30th, 2021, June 30th, 2022, class B liquor license, new application number 3461 and 3458. Yep, so on these HCM hospitality, which is the marina, they cleared up their application issues. That license should be granted. Solanova application needs to be held for another meeting yet. So that would be the proper motion. I would move that the Solanova, I'm sorry, that the HCM hospitality license be granted and that the Solanova application be held for another meeting. Second. There's been a motion by Mary Lynn and a second by Barb. Any further discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor, please state aye. Aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? Chair votes aye. That is approved. All right, 3.2, RO number 482021, director Ferrell submitting various license applications for the period ending April 14th, 2021, sidewalk cafe and change of premise application number 3058 for house divided. All right, so we were here two weeks ago on this application and it was held because the application as it then existed was unable to be granted because it was not, it did not provide for contiguous premises. Nothing has changed. There hasn't been any amendment as was promised. You know, I don't know whether there's some thought about whether, I know there was been some discussion about possibly making changes to the application but without knowing that those changes are gonna be made, we wouldn't be able to grant that but if those changes are made, it's potentially depending on the circumstances the committee could take a vote on that. Alder Donio. Thank you. Attorney Adams, I just think for the benefit of the folks who are here and the people on our members online, can you just walk us through number one, the process of the sidewalk cafe permit and then secondly, why the change of premise application is needed and how that might be effectuated? Sure. So the sidewalk cafe permit is just that. It's just for a sidewalk cafe. It doesn't have anything to do with alcohol per se. The sidewalk cafe in and of itself could be granted if they weren't gonna serve alcohol there. That would be one potential change. I don't think that is one they're interested in. If they wanna serve alcohol, there is, you can only serve alcohol on a licensed premise. And so the change of premise is needed in order to change the premise to expand it so that it includes the sidewalk cafe area. Because there is a requirement in the statute about contiguity, you can't have like multiple premises and multiple places. You have to have one single contiguous premise. That premise has to be contiguous and so having one at the sidewalk cafe and one in the building doesn't work, you have to include the space in between as well. Now, there's a couple of issues with that. One is if this is going to be a temporary, if this is gonna be a permanent change, which is how it is currently written, that a permanent change that would include that area between the building and the sidewalk would have to get plan commission approval. And that has not, it hasn't been submitted to plan commission for approval yet at this point. Now, there are potential options and the last one I heard talked about was the idea that instead of going all the way out to the sidewalk, that there was some discussion of potentially putting up tables and chairs close to the building, sort of right up against the building on their lot. That would not require a sidewalk cafe permit. It would still require a change of premise. And at least if they're gonna serve alcohol. The change of premise application, if it were a temporary change of premise, 12 days or less, does not require plan commission approval. It could be approved right here. Given that we're now getting into the fall and the earliest this license could be approved, if you were to approve a license tonight, it would get approved by council on the day after Labor Day, September 8th. That would be the earliest that, after that would be the earliest they could even do anything. Given that, I had heard some discussion that potentially a one or two weekend type proposal where they would try it out for one or two weekends. That potentially could be, you could approve a change of premise that does that, but the change would need to be made to the application to indicate that it is a temporary change of premise for 12 days or less, enlist the days. And that it would be up against the building. Or they could put it on the sidewalk and not serve alcohol, or they could put it on the sidewalk and make it the whole area just for 12 days, you could approve that as well, potentially. So if I could just continue, Chair. Yep. So I'm puzzled on the contiguity issue. All of the sidewalk cafes that we have approved up and down A Street are not contiguous to the building. Contiguous meaning attached, is that correct? No, they are all, they all, they don't get approved unless they are contiguous. They have to include a description of a single premises that is all contiguous. So they are all contiguous. So the, so I'm just puzzled. So is it fair to say then that the parking lot is not part of the premise? Right, in their application, they did not include the parking lot as part of the premise. So if you included the parking lot as part of the premise? If you included the parking lot as part of the premise, you could go all the way to the sidewalk if you wanted to. The issue there is that because, if it were to be a permanent change, because they're including areas outside of the sidewalk, they would need to go to plan commission for approval. The A Street ones don't need that because they're basically right up against their buildings on the sidewalks. So in the statutes, is there a specific distance requirement? There's not a distance requirement. No, it just has to be contiguous. So I'm just, you know, you and I have been through this. I mean, we learned in law school about cartilage and that the premise is the cartilage. It is the portion of land that is under control of the owner. So I- Not for the cartilage is irrelevant to a liquor license because a liquor license premise has to be specifically defined. The most recent case on that is the Wisconsin Dolls case. And that had to do, it's a slightly different situation. It's that the common counsel sort of unilaterally changed the application of Wisconsin Dolls to in order to make it contiguous rather than telling them to change it to make it contiguous, but that it does still have to be a single contiguous area. And we can't just unilaterally change it. We have the only way we could approve a change to the application, it would be contingent on them actually making the change. Which requires plan commission approval. Not it, so that's the other issue is we only require plan commission approval for non-temporary changes. And temporary in the zoning code is more than 12 days. How many temporary permits could this bar get, say, in the time that we in Wisconsin consider okay to be outside? If they're willing to pay for them, they could get an unlimited number of them. And how much are they? They're whether they're $5 each, 10. Now you still have to approve them. So they can, the one that's in front of you, they could amend for 12 days. And then if they want more, they'd have to come back. But yeah, they're willing to approve them. But yeah, they could amend this one to be a temporary 12 day. And whether they want to include the sidewalk cafe and the area, or if they just want to be up against the property, that's really up to them. Okay, so one permit could go for 12 days, just so I understand that. And that's sort of- And they would have to state the 12 days. So it wouldn't necessarily, they could pick. I mean, they have to be one after another. They can't take like one day here, one day there, but they, any 12 day period. So if they wanted to start on a Friday so that they could get through the follow, so you get through two weekends, they could do that. And in terms of the permits that are in front of us, or that have been filed, let me put it that way. At this meeting, is there a way that if the owner who I believe is here indicated an interest in amending the permit that's on file, could we do that here tonight? Yes, we have, there is precedent where we have, as long as the owner has indicated that they're the ones who want to make that change, we can grant those contingent on their making the change here, we can grant them contingent on their making the change. They just have to get there before it goes to council, which there's an extra week this time around. Okay, so I guess, and Chair, I don't know how you want to handle this. If we would allow the owner a chance maybe to discuss with Julie what this would mean concretely or answer any questions. And the owner could come back into the meeting with an indication that this is what she's willing to do. Here's what I'm, I've been up and down on this Galdarn thing. And as I see it now, the odd thing is is that this bar has this gigantic, well it's not gigantic, but this very large parking lot that separates it from the sidewalk. And so I need to take Attorney Adams analysis that this is not contiguous property. And in order to make it contiguous, in other words, joined, the owner would need to apply to the plan commission for a conditional use permit, which costs a couple of hundred dollars. Yeah, and there's a process which has been. And there's a process and this bar has tried it twice before without any luck. So, you know, it's not a happy place for them. And, or, so there's that possibility. And then if that were granted, Chuck, they could have the tables and chairs outside in the parking lot, is that correct? Yes. Okay, so you wouldn't need to futz and dutz with, you know, being 20 or 30 feet away from the building. Or, in the alternative, you could do a sidewalk cafe permit, but you just can't serve alcohol. So let me ask you this. Could a person order food from the bar, and then personally go into the bar and purchase a beer and bring it out to the table? Now, just assuming that we only have a sidewalk cafe permit. Assuming we only have a sidewalk cafe permit, that would be problematic because a tavern license is primarily for consumption on premises, and not for off premises. Now, you can, there is a certain amount of alcohol that can be sold by a bar for off premises consumption in a sealed container, you know, you can take, generally that's meant you take it home or you get it in a growler or whatever. The issue with the sidewalk cafe permit is you still have to have a responsible party, so you wouldn't be able to do it on the sidewalk. Now, then the question becomes, could they do it without, could they just, you know, sort of serve people inside and then people just happen to walk outside? There's a couple of problems with that. One is the potential issue of is this really, are they really then selling for off premises consumption in a sealed container or not? And, I mean, you could probably sort of squint at it and say that part, there's a way to do that legally. You'd have to squint, but you could probably do that. The more important issue is when we've had this issue come up before, nobody, the insurance companies don't want to provide that kind of coverage because they're like, well, no, we're ensuring you for your premises, not for the rest of your property where you don't have a licensed premise. So we actively discourage that for both of those reasons. It would be better, basically, for them to expand their premises and then they know, anywhere on their premises, they're responsible for it but people are gonna be perfectly able to, as long as they otherwise meet the requirements of being of age and all that. It's just like being inside the bar. All right. Now, Alder Sorenson and I have been to the bar. We've met with the owner. We've talked with Christine. Christine, and you're currently the manager. You're a cook. Okay, but the owner's here. And the way I see it at this point, this 12-day permit has a number of advantages. One, it's cheap. Two, it's quick. Three, it gives you 12 days to figure out if this is a viable business model for you. Is this anything we really wanna do? Number four, it gives you the opportunity to demonstrate to the neighbors who have expressed concerns that we have to be cognizant of as well, that there's noise and this, that and the other thing. If during this 12-day period, you show yourselves to be really good neighbors and then you can renew it for another 20, so then you've got a month before we all go back inside, you have a month to show that you're a good neighbor so that as this goes on, you get to apply for a conditional use permit without setting the neighbor's hair on fire. So I don't know what's appropriate at this point. I guess I just don't see my way, I don't see my way clear of anything except this temporary extension of premises. It has huge advantages in the sense you don't have tables way away from the bar. It's not way away, but it's farther than any place I've seen. You don't have to worry about people falling into the street. It'd be much more pleasant, I think, to be closer to the bar because you aren't getting street traffic and so forth. So I think that there are a lot of advantages to that and that it could potentially, not right away, but potentially could be a win-win for both the bar and the neighborhood. So that's what I'm thinking. We could move to hold this for another meeting, although that's two weeks from now, so I don't know. Three weeks from now. Three weeks from now. Or, and I don't know how my fellow committee members feel, I would be willing to adjourn for a short, and not adjourn, but suspend our proceedings for a brief period of time for the owner to meet with Julie or Chuck or whomever just to try to get this worked out. Yeah, and really, all we really need is if that's what you wanna do, you gotta tell us. That that's what you're gonna do, and then you should go down after the meeting and take care of it. Now, we're kind of springing this on you, but it seems to me that this is a way to go ahead. It seems like it's a way to go ahead to get what you need and go forward. In other words, you can be outside, you can have tables and chairs, it can be in the parking lot, it can be for 12 days, it'll cost you $10 to get the license, which she's already paid. Thank you. And I'm sorry? Right, that's how long the permit lasts. And you can split the days up. But no, you can't split them up, but you can choose a beginning and an end date. And then you can get another one. So for example, just so that you can understand the, so if you decide to make that change and they approve it here, it still has to go to council. Council meets on Tuesday, September 8th, is that correct? So the first possible day that you could start the sidewalk cafe would be Wednesday the 9th. 12 days after that would be through the next weekend or you could start it on a Thursday or whatever. But you pick which 12 days in a row that you wanna do, start it late enough and then go apply for another temporary permit if you wanna do it later in September. You'd have to come back in for the second 12 days though, because that still would have to get approved. And that, yeah, and you wanna do that right away because the earliest it could get approved is the 21st of September. Okay, so now she's not on the mic, but I'm just gonna sort of for the, it's not a typed record, but for the record, she's indicated, the owner has indicated that she is amenable and that that's what she'd like to do. To clarify, it would be a, the motion then would be to grant the license contingent on her going over to the clerk's office and amending her change of premise application to do two things. First of all, to put the tables and chairs near the building like they've discussed. And second, to pick 12 consecutive days starting no earlier than September 9th that they would like that to be. Well, I would so amend. But before we go into all of that, I'm just wondering, Cheryl, if you need more time to talk to folks or if you're understanding everything that's going on because we don't wanna, I think this is a good solution but it's much more important for you to think it's a good solution. So we, okay, all right. So I still amend the motion. There's no motion that's been made. She just means she made the motion. Is she okay? Oh, I'm sorry. Okay. I'm sorry to amend the application. It was to grant a contingent on her amendment. Yeah, it has made a motion to approve the application as a contingent upon the amendments as described. Yes. Is there a second? Oh, second. Second by Barb. Is there any further discussion from Alders? Anyone from the public wishing to speak? Please go to the microphone though so that you can be heard. And then when you go to the microphone if you could just state your name and where you live, that'd be great. Is this? I'll return. Yeah. Perfect. First of all, I'd like to say hi to Mike. Could you state your name though? Your Honor, Gary Bus, Gary F. Bus 840 Mead Avenue, Showa, Wisconsin 58081. Thank you. What I'd like to say is Cheryl is in a quandary right now. The neighbors in her neighborhood are giving her a hard time about karaoke on a Friday night. Karaoke and serving are two different things. She wants to be able to. I've done the blueprints already. She wants to attach in the front on the south side of the building, tables and chairs surrounded by a fence, an appropriate fence for the situation. And this whole thing with the neighbors is causing a real big quandary here. They think that it's going to be noisy because you have people eating outside. Well, Cheryl has had police come on Friday night, which is karaoke night, called in by the neighbors that think it's too loud. Well, as it turns out, as the officer approaches the building, he says, I don't hear any noise. What are they talking about? This is a vendetta and it's been going on for years. It's got to stop. She's trying to make a living. She pays taxes, federal, state, local, and of course social security. She needs a break right now. She's had suffered a terrible loss with her husband passing. And she is a business person. So we hope that this whole thing can be resolved. Ouch. I got a back problem here. But anyway, that's basically where I'm coming from, that this has to be done. Or she goes without and wishes that she had. So I have to sit down here before I fall down. Excuse me. And basically what I have to say, is there anyone else from the public wishing to speak? All right, seeing no more discussion. All those in favor of approving the amended motion, please state aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? Chair votes aye. That is approved. So what you'll want to do is after the meeting today, go down with Julie to the clerk's office and she'll help you make the changes to that. And then it'll get, what will happen is it'll get approved on Tuesday the 8th. And she knows the whole, she'll be able to help you get it done. So moving along, 3.3 RO number 54, 2021, submitting various license applications for the period ending December 31st, 2020, June 30th, 2022. So after review of the RO, we are recommending holding the beverage operators license application of Matthew L. Key for denial and granting all of the remaining license applications. Is there a motion to hold the aforementioned license and granting the remainder? So move. Second. There's been a motion in second. Any further discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor, please state aye. Aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? Aye. Chair votes aye. That's approved. Next meeting is September 16th. Seeing that we've exhausted the agenda, is there a motion to adjourn? So move. Is there a second? Aye. That's okay. We'll take that as a second. All those in favor of adjourning, please state aye. Aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? Chair votes aye. We are adjourned at 429.