 As I mentioned, thank you very much for joining, particularly my pleasure to talk today with Mary Stevens. Mary is a friend of MIT in general, and in particular by now. She is the Worldwide Vice President supply chain of consumer health and delivery at Johnson & Johnson. I'm Professor Sheffi, I'm Director of the MIT Center for Transportation Logistics. And today we'll talk about lesson learned during COVID-19 and a look at the future of global operation, vaccine rollout, the role of resilience, and leadership. So Mary, thank you very much for joining us. Thanks, Sheffi. Yes, it's really a pleasure to be here and to share with you. It's going to be a great, great couple of minutes and time to share about what we're doing at Johnson & Johnson. Sure. Johnson & Johnson, of course, is now in the North. So this was all our design. We wanted to do it just after Johnson & Johnson started rollout in the United States. I'm kidding, of course, this was said a month ago. But the question is still, how is the vaccine rollout going? Is this something that you can tell us something about? Well, thanks so much, Yossi. I mean, we are really pleased with having received the emergency use authorization at the end of February and being able to supply our first doses of the vaccine and more to come. As our CEO has committed, we're expecting to ship about 100 million doses before the end of the second quarter. And the ramp up is just tremendous. Working all around the world with colleagues and manufacturing sites and building distribution centers. And we're really pleased with where we are right now. It really, you and I, we're talking just beforehand. It really is a miracle to have come this far. And I'll quote our CEO in saying from essentially 13 months ago in January, having an unknown virus and really coming all this way to discovering of the molecule, starting up manufacturing, getting the emergency use authorization, and then beginning to ship within 13 months is nothing short of amazing. And so with people working around the clock in all of our functions across the business, it really has been a collaborative effort with us, with partners, with everyone. And we're really, really pleased. I'd like to be very excited to help. I'd like to build on this because clearly at the beginning, your scientists were working around the clock. In February, March, I'm sure it was all science experiments and discovery operation. But soon thereafter, it became a big supply chain challenge. So can you tell us a little bit about the atmosphere within J&J and your function, the supply chain and manufacturing and distribution, the whole delivery cost? How are people working? You just mentioned that you are starting your Zoom call at 6 AM and finishing it. A little busy. But how is the atmosphere at J&J? I would say more than anything else at J&J. We are focused. But the pandemic has done for us more than anything else is created this laser focus on what's crucially important. When I reflect on our credo, it always starts with the patient. And the first word, say, we have a responsibility. And so for everyone all across the enterprise, it's not a question of, oh, this is my job or not my job. What strikes me about J&J is that we are truly built for times like these. And with the crisis, no one says no. It's almost like people are honored to be asked to come jump into the fire with everyone else. And so while initially it was very much about the science and really discovery, but as you said, very quickly, we were having to create whole supply chains that didn't exist before. And so whether it was manufacturing or distribution or warehousing, these are things that weren't in existence a year ago. And so the parallel pathing of activities because of the great collaboration that we have allowed us to get to where we are now in a much faster way. But it also required all of us to work differently. And so we talk about how do we identify talent in a crisis and who can step up? And that's where for me personally through this, it has been the most exciting thing to encounter people. I probably never would have encountered before because they've stepped up and there are meetings where you have just multi-layers in the organization, everybody working together, you can't really tell what title anyone has or what role they had before they stepped in because everyone is so focused on the work to be done. Sounds like the military when they're on the fire. You know, everybody, it doesn't matter what your rank is, as long as you get shot straight and help your comrades. But can you extend this to your work with suppliers? How did this work change? Who stepped up? Who did not? Not who. Yeah, and look, I think one of the things that I hope will continue long after the pandemic ends is this newfound era of collaboration. And so I think for me, and just thinking from the logistics and distribution side, what we've been able to do with our critical partners throughout the pandemic has been amazing. So we think about what started for us in logistics and distribution is the starting problem, right? Which was things in China started to shut down. Roads were closed. Every province was doing something different. And so really working with our partners in transportation, aircraft was shut down, where we had flights that were canceled because a lot of our product was riding in the belly of commercial aircraft. And so you had to work very closely, almost at the minute, to make sure that loads were picked up and things were changing and really being able to drive decision making. And you could never have done that without clear collaboration, senior partnerships that had to have happened before the pandemic struck. So in the middle of the pandemic was not the time to create partnerships. It was to leverage partnerships. But I feel like our working relationship is so much different than it was before, because we're talking more frequently, we're creating solutions differently, and we're working together in order to really be able to meet the needs. Because it's not only about vaccines for us, right? And we have a huge business. We have to be able to supply patients of all types with critical medications and critical needs. And so it really doesn't matter. But at the end of the day, that it is one product over another, it's really being able to meet the critical needs of our patients. And you think this type of communications, relationship, reliance on each other will continue going forward? I certainly hope so. I think it really has, there's nothing like a good crisis to really be able to break through barriers in a way that maybe you couldn't do before. And so really the openness, even if you think about what happened just recently announced by President Biden between Merck and Johnson and Johnson and the collaboration that is founded, these are things that typically would not happen. But I hope that the open dialogue, the open collaboration changes the way we all work going forward, because that will help us really meet the needs of our patients and also reduce the cost of health care in the long run. Sounds good. I certainly all hope that you are right. Given J&J, in your experience during the pandemic, what was the biggest insights as far in terms of supply chain or the more also the biggest challenge in the supply chain leader? Can you think back? Yeah, so I think right from the start, what has impressed me the most is our resilience and our ability to drive agility. So if one route closed, then another one would open. And so the combination of people really being able to drive rapid decision making and then also really being able to focus and prioritize, these were the things that have helped us be most successful. And so we thought we were resilient and we proved that we were resilient because our supply chain held up extremely well throughout this pandemic. We've really done, while we've been able to move and change and evolve, but also really be able to meet the needs. And that was a critical element of how we had designed our supply chain from the beginning, but then also the way it performed all throughout the pandemic. And now as hopefully we're beginning to see the light at the end of this tunnel, we're really hoping that we can be in a different place. And I'll just give you one example. At 1.98% of our customer service people pivoted from working in call centers to working from home. And that's a big shift for us, really being able to work differently, use technology that most people were not as, clear resume was not a thing a year ago. And I think most of us have gotten much more technically savvy, but we've also been able to leverage our investments in digital that allow us to have the flexibility to be able to pivot those teams from home. And then the other piece that's so exciting is that the embracing of digital, the curve and maturity has accelerated tremendously where before people were more resistant, now people are required because there's no other way to get it done. So just a big shift in the way we're thinking and the way we're working. Sure. Just a quick question from the chat. Larry Tillam asked about the recent, I don't know if you can answer it, the recent announcement of the external manufacturing with Merck, who will Jen Deliver on the logistics? Who will on the logistics to make sure that to ensure the integrity of the supply chain? So, you know, and I am not as close to the details of the relationships with Merck and probably wouldn't be able to talk about it anyway, but the thing to note is what we work on with all of our collaborators in this process. I mean, we have many, many partners is that we work through the quality requirements, the process, the tech transfers and the needs, whether it's logistics and distribution or it's manufacturing, we have critical quality requirements, we have critical processes, and then we work with our partners to perform. And so within any element of that performance, we expect that partner to perform to the specifications and of course we help them through that process, through support, through people on site in order to make sure that everything meets the expectations of our critical quality requirements. In general, let me just move to another subject. In general, always say that before January 2020, when people ask my wife what's your husband doing at MIT, she said supply chain and people just look at her like deer in the headlight. Now, my husband does research in supply chain management. Oh, that's important. Now everybody, what was the impact on the supply chain function within J&J? So within J&J, supply chain has always had a seat at the table. Kathy Wengel sits on the executive committee. It's always been a critical element of what we've done, but I would say that maybe we didn't spend as much time in some of the leadership team meetings talking about supply chain. I think it's been a critical element. Now everyone is involved at a granular level of understanding of how we work and what we do and its results in crisis management. The executive committee has been meeting almost daily with crisis management and conversations in order to make sure that decision making can be made quickly. And I think that's the big change where supply chain was always important, huge investment in supply chain, very important as far as how the seat at the table was, but during the crisis, the time to decision making needed to be short. And so the conversations around decisions with regard to this supply chain were very much impacted by everyone. So you wanted to be able to make those decisions quickly. And so those conversations around supply chain were happening at every table, almost every day. And so those are the kinds of things that shifted not level of importance, not level of interest, not level of the leadership caliber, but how often those conversations were part of the conversation at the executive level every day, I think that has shifted a little bit. Mary, let's talk to you, allow me a little more personal, not too much about your leadership style. Did it affect your leadership style going through this experience? So I think it's not so much style, but as much how I spend my time. And so where in the role that I play, maybe a bigger portion of it was strategic and less of it was tactical. I said to someone at one point, I treated the entire world like a poor performing factory at one point. We were having warm room discussions twice a day. How do we think about this constant communication really being able to do it? Similar to the way we talked about the executive committee leaning in because the time to decision making needed to be smaller, we needed to be able to focus and prioritize effectively, which meant that everyone at every level of the organization needed access to decision making quickly. In order to be able to get that decision making quickly, we created forums that were different. And so more tactical sessions, more frequently. And then as things settled down, you spread the time between those tactical sessions, but the intensity hasn't stopped. And so really being able to work remotely is opposed to walking factory floors and doing things and really being able to access information quickly and make decisions quickly. I think what I would say is that more recently, we've been more tactical as leaders than strategic, but that enables us to drive those decisions more quickly. And then the other thing that I would say is that for me personally, I think a lot of us were talking about Zoom. We have a lot of very short bursts of Zoom calls with a lot of different people. And that has pluses and minuses, right? But I think there's no substitute for getting to know people upfront, personal, walking factory floors, walking distribution center floors, going out to dinner, really meeting people. But Zoom allows you an intimacy, like you're almost inviting people into your home. That's a little different than what you expect. So you get a somewhat different relationship with people. And then I think the other thing that is critically important is making sure that you're keeping an eye on your team. Because what I have found, especially as we've hit that one year mark for people over the last couple of months, that there's an exhaustion factor. And just making sure that you're giving people permission to take some time to regroup. Because without it, and you have to lead by example, you have to, without it, people just hit the wall and people are tired and they're not their best. And so you need to be able to show people that it's okay to take a break, that it's okay to be able to step back and that you're keeping an eye on people to make sure they are taking that time when you feel like maybe they're a little too stressed and giving them some support. So it's that balance. There's a lot of questions in the Q&A about resilience. People were, several people were sending kudos about how resilient the fact that Johnson and Johnson was resilient and you were able to keep the product flow basically. But people ask if you have your own definition of resilience, what metric you use to measure resilience if there are any specific metrics. Well, you know, I mean, the number one measure of resilience for me on the product side is the product available when somebody wants it and needs it, right? That's the number one definition is reliability. Is are you reliable? But on the leadership side, I think there's a different definition of resilience. I think resilience is demonstrated by this can-do attitude. And so you have to be able to lead with a clarity, focus, and positive impact that allows people to be successful. And so, you know, you have both, right? You have this, you must have reliability, you must have product. And under incredibly constrained situations that can put a lot of pressure on people. But from a leadership perspective, it's crucially important that you also lead with the ability to tell people that you know they can get there. And it's really not so much about, you know, just constantly, what are you doing? What are you doing? What are you doing? And, you know, our China leader tells a story and I'll go back and said, look, we had our first emergency crisis management call in China on January 27th last year. And she said, she'll never forget it. She said, you know, Mary, what you said to me is, I am so sorry for taking your valuable time. What can I do to help? Not what are you doing? What are you doing? What are you doing? But how can we help you be successful? And I think as leaders, that's our responsibility. It's not always to be demanding, but also to roll up our sleeves, especially when people are very overwhelmed and understand what we can do to help them to succeed. Because failure is clearly not an option. And we had to be agile. We had to try things. Some things didn't work. We had to adapt and really be able to take pressure off so that, you know, they can be doing their work to be successful and be that buffer. And so that's a big piece of the way I think about resilience. Thank you. You know, I wrote several books on the subject and I always mentioned that the culture, which is really what you're talking about in leadership culture, is the most important ingredient in building logistics. Because people look at the physical metrics and miss exactly what you just said. I have lots of questions in the Q&A. One of them, you may, I don't know if you have the right one to answer, but several people are asking that. And Chris from Cambridge is asking, talking about it seems that the back end of the supply chain for vaccine, the sourcing manufacturing part of distribution went exceptionally well, but the final distribution from the state to the arms still has problems. And we live in Massachusetts, which is an example of how things can go wrong and how, you know, good government stumbles. And then they do stumbles. Are there any recommendations from J&J on how this could be done better in the future? Yeah, I think we all have opinions. And I live in Pennsylvania, which is no better than Massachusetts. If anything, it's worse. So I would say that, you know, from a Johnson & Johnson perspective, and I'm sure if we were talking to my peers at Pfizer and Moderna and other places, what we would say is that we are not, not part of that part of the process. And so, and we all probably have ideas on what we would do differently if we were sitting in those chairs, but it's really hard for me to put myself on the other side of that fence, because I'm really just unclear as to how those governments work and how those rollouts have happened. I mean, clearly, if you look at the outcomes, I think what some of the states have done by managing centrally with some simplicity and simple websites has gone better than what, you know, I would say in Pennsylvania, we're going county by county and it is less than satisfactory, I think, for everyone. So it's just, you know, I think clearly there's opportunity, but from my perspective, it's hard for me to say because I don't understand kind of what happens on the other side of the fence. And, you know, I think to a certain extent, what we've all had to do is said, okay, this is my piece. This is what I'm focused on and I'm going to do this piece to the best of my ability and hope and pray that those people to the left of me and to the right of me are also able to focus and get their piece done because that's the only way we've been able to, you know, remain clear on what the outcome needs to be. Fair enough. You mentioned the fact that you had the ramp up of digital infrastructure, digital tools. Several of the questions, I think four or five of them are focusing on visibility. Did you invest in visibility? Did you get better visibility to what was the role that visibility played in your success, in fact, in your supply chain success? Yeah, we've been in a multi-year journey to invest in digital. It's one of the things that has been the hallmark of our transformation over the last five or six years is really heavily investing in digital. And so, you know, the way we think about digital is really in two distinct pieces. The first one is thinking about the whole, you know, consumer to cash cycle, which is, you know, what consumer insights do you have? What do you think about from an ordering process? What do you think about from, you know, an order tracking and then all the way through invoicing and cash, right? That's one section of our digital thread. And the second one is on the physical side where we've been looking at transparency starting at the patient or the consumer and going all the way back through our supply chain back to raw materials. And this is, and then by having both these pieces of visibility and this transactional improvements in investments and digital and capability, then that allows our planning engines to work most effectively. And so that's no different when it came to vaccines or anything else. We've been working all the way from sensing the physical product from one end to the next and we have had huge investments over the last number of years in that area. And that's all in our process controls and everything else in addition to the transparency itself. And then also in our order to cash process in order to be able to drive this ability to see. Because if you don't know where things are, it's really hard to tell. And especially on things like our farm products where temperature gradient is so important, really being able to monitor real time our products in flight and where they are and how it helps us to make sure that we aren't going to have temperature gradients across the kind of the flight path, if you will of the product from one end to the next. And so while our product is a little simpler because it doesn't have to move around the country at extreme temperatures, it still needs to be maintained at a consistent and appropriate temperature and we need to monitor that. And so all the technology that has come into play now where you can have full-time temperature monitoring and the sensors keep being developed and it's really exciting what's happened and being able to flag when we've got problems so we can remediate quickly. Mary, you mentioned the effort to digitize. Some of the questions on the Q&A and I'm not going to in particular I'm trying to somewhere and several of them. One is looking at the, did you learn, can you talk somewhat about process that you found out that certain processes work better? Sure you did. Because you work, there was a burning platform so everybody is working together but it will be over or so we hope. And the question is, did you learn anything about revamping your processes? Doing processes is better. As distinct from sometimes there will be supported by digital technology, sometimes not. Can you talk a little bit about process improvements? Absolutely, we are constantly in the process of adapting and modifying our processes through innovation. We're always scouting for new ways of working in order to be able to, I always refer to it as stealing with pride. Really be able to benchmark, to look, especially to other industries that might have things that they've tried and been able to do and adapt. And so that's part of our culture is to constantly look at what we're doing and adapt and improve our processes so that we can be better the next time around. What I would say about the crisis and the pandemic which we worked hard not to waste is that it's accelerated some of the adoption of some of the changes we really want to be able to do to go forward. So you think about it in terms of things that might have been in an experimental phase and a test and learn phase have quickly gone to scale because of need. So one example I'll give you is being able to look at order patterns. So one of the things that we've been doing is a lot of work around automating and doing a lot of AI and investigation into our order patterns. So we wanna look for anomalies, things that are not supposed to be happening. And so we have been more experimenting with that. But I think as we all knew in the beginning of the pandemic, there were all these rumors, oh, this drug will work or that drug will work or that drug will work over here. And that created ordering patterns that were out of the norm. And so, but you can't have people go off and order all of the supply of a particular drug that real patients are using for real diseases every day and have somebody buy up all the supply so that they can't then get their product. So we had to be real time scaling our ability to look at those order patterns so we could identify those quickly. And now that we've done that, we'll never go backwards. So we'll be able to sense when ordering patterns are happening that are not normal so that we'll be able to deal with that in a much more real time basis. And that's an example of how we've been able to take something that was in its infancy, really test it. Now we have way more data. We have way more examples of where things were kind of crazy. And so you can really take those things and be able to demonstrate the efficacy of being able to use these tools in a different way. Thank you. Now I'll ask you a more strategic question, which there's a lot of interest both in the Q and A and then I had this question before, the idea of localizing production and localizing procurement, in fact, to the extent possible. Governments around the world, it's not only the Biden by America, it's by British, by French. It's all around the world, Chinese for sure. How is this impacting a global company, multinational like Johnson and Johnson that makes and sells around the globe? How does Johnson and Johnson think about it strategically? So the buy local for local push and to shorten supply lines was not something new from the pandemic. I think the political environment has gotten much more focused on this activity but really being able to understand our supply chains, the length of our supply chains and where we cite manufacturing is something we've been doing for a long time. During the pandemic, what we found is that our supply chains worked really well. The balance that we have around the globe was very good and we actually had very few areas other than a few odd constraints like things like alcohol. When everybody's making hand sanitizer and wipes, those kinds of supply lines which had been prevalent and just everywhere before were more constrained but I think that generally the supply lines worked extremely well. And so we're not rushing to say, oh, well now we're gonna move everything from A to B because A, that's expensive and B, that takes time that may change with the product flow. And so what we continue to do is look at our supply lines for number one, reliability and resilience. Number two is are they cited correctly in order to be able to serve our consumers and patients correctly at a great price and really being able to do things in the most efficient and effective way so that we can always supply but then we'll also continuously evaluate the national norms that are going on to see whether or not we have to rebalance. And so it's hard to just make a jerky response when you're operating a supply line which is constrained by regulatory and approvals and other investments that need to be required in order to be able to make products at scale. And so really it is about, how do we think about partnerships? How do we think about leveraging sources of supply but also really continuously balancing our supply lines to serve the world in the most effective way? Thank you, Mary. As I mentioned at the beginning, there are many, many students on the call from all around the world in addition to a lot of professionals but the question from one of the students, I assume it's one of the students, considering the lesson learned from the pandemic and its consequences, what new skill would supply chain talent acquire in order to become ready for the new normal? So it's the same answer that I've had for the last three years. We're a geeky bunch in supply chain. We're very technical. So the same skills, data sciences, analysis, analytics that have served supply chain leaders well for a long time, the hard sciences, engineering, those are the kinds of things in supply chain that really work well. Those people who are STEM focused really do most effectively in our supply chain but I think it also helps from a personality perspective is we talked about resilience before but you also have to be a little bit able to take the punches, right? So in supply chain, we're on the dark side. We don't really have wins. We only have lack of loss because the best you can do is to be 100% on time with perfect quality at zero cost. And since that never happens, you tend to always be on the negative side of the equation. So you have to be able to take that and be very resilient from a personality perspective or unless you tend to be a little disappointed all the time. It's all about getting up off the floor after getting punched in order to be successful because you don't have these great big wins. So it's really about how are you able to problem solve, deal with thousands of problems all the time and multitask and be able to do it from a personality perspective. But then it's very much about that technical side, that deep science, that math and those analytics that make the difference. Yeah, interesting being able to pick yourself up from the, it's really interesting because a lot of supply chain adopted cost avoidance basically as a metric of success. It could have been worse. And it looked like you guys can use it in Spain because you kept working while others did not. So it's a, it could have been a lot worse for J&J without the preparation, the investment supply chain, the J&J. Lots of questions about them. Really lots of questions. That's good. That means people like the conversation. They're going too fast for me and then too many of them but it's great. Just put one, jumps up during operation war speed, various leaders have made both statements proposing aggressive delivery timeline. How has J&J been able to manage expectation with customer and suppliers given or given all the uncertainties? Look, we're data driven. We are completely data driven. We focus on science, we focus on facts and we tell people what we know. So it's really just about, you know, you can only tell people what you know and be based in facts and information. And you know, I'm not a big believer in over promising because I think that always goes badly. I'd much rather be clear based on data, tell people what we know. And then if we do better than that, great. But I hate it when we have these perfect timelines where you say, oh, this is the best case scenario and that's what gets committed because the world doesn't really work that way. Things tend to go wrong. Things tend to not work exactly the way we expect. And so when you over promise, then people get so disappointed and it's so much better when we give people good data-based, science-based information. And then if we do a little better, fantastic. Everybody's excited. I mean, the same date can be a disappointment or a thrill depending on the context that you set it in. And if you set the date and you do better, people are happy. If you set a date that's earlier that's not realistic and you do worse, people are very devastated and disappointed. And that's one of the things that's happened in the pandemic is that there's this video and I can't even remember whose it was where very early in the pandemic, I sent it around to my teens and it was a retired CEO and I'm gonna mess it up. So I'm not gonna say. So, and he had this video that said, look, don't set an end date for the pandemic. Just put one foot in front of the other and focus on what needs to happen now because the people who don't set an end date will be more resilient in the long run than the people who set an end date. And then if that end date is not realistic, they're disappointed and they're almost devastated and they have to pick themselves back up again. And so to me, it's really much more about, okay, what's important now? How do we think about that? And as I said earlier is like, how do you shorten the cycle time between decisions so that people can feel progress even if they can't feel the complete outcome and then be completely data driven on when our expected outcomes are gonna be. Interesting that the one promise that was done well is Biden 100 million in a hundred days. I mean, the US is doing better actually. And then, it looks good. And everybody's happier, right? I mean, I think that, except for those of us in Pennsylvania and clearly Massachusetts, but I think that, it's like, if you set a date that people can get their heads around and you do better, everyone's like, God, that was great. As opposed to something that's just completely unrealistic. Another team here is looking ahead over the next five years. Where do you see the most important investment in supply chain technology, supply chain digitization? So for us, and I think every industry is a little different but for us, our investment in digital and our investment in intelligent automation is crucial. So the more we can predict outcomes, the more effective we can be, the more agile we're gonna be. I think one of the things that the pandemic showed us is we can have wild swings in demand. And I'll use our medical device business as an example. It's certain points in the second quarter. The surgeries around the world were so much lower than we expected but then they came back so much faster than we expected. So how do you make sure that you're always positioned to sense when that demand is coming and then be able to react to it most efficiently and effectively so you don't create waste in the system? So the worst thing is having too much or too little product. And so really being able to look at that and really understand the dynamics of what's going on all the way from sensing what consumers and patients are gonna need all the way back to your raw material supplier and being able to have everyone have that visibility to that. That's the crucial element of what we're thinking about. And then the other half of that is being able to run our lines most efficiently and effectively, I mean, sensing is cheap now, right? So how do I sense the line to drive best yield, best outcomes, run the lines most efficiently and effectively without having to do as much offline testing and batch support in order to be able to get speed and efficiency. And so it's those combinations both on the physical side and on the demand sensing side, that are crucially important. I mean, you and I also know that knowing what a consumer is gonna want, where they're gonna want it, where they're gonna buy it, that's like the holy grail of supply chain, right? So the closer I can get to that, the better off we're gonna be in order to be able to meet that demand with reliability. And so how do we get that to work differently? And the other piece of this is, how do we work across both the functions and the suppliers in order to be able to all be able to work that way? So that we're all looking at the same set of information. And so I was talking to our consumer health CIO the other day and we were talking about the fact of, what are the data sets we all need? And then what are the algorithms we wanna run against them? So that we're all working together and we're only creating data once and only working for data once. Because as we've all invested in digital, we have silos of cool stuff going on. Now the point is to pivot those silos to true end-to-end power, to be able to drive that performance, not just for us, but for our customers and for everyone, because everyone's investing. And how do you make it just one continuum so that we can all get better? You were describing actually an age-old challenge in supply chain. It's part of the bullwhip effect. You have too much to do at the end of the line. But with this, Mary, I want really to thank you for taking time out of what is really effective schedule and for you and your team. And I wanna thank the audience for joining us and please feel free to get, to be involved in the discussion with us on LinkedIn or at ctl.mit.edu. And thank you again very much for joining us and for watching and have a great day, everyone.