 Good evening and welcome to this evening's episode of the private property podcast. I'm your host, Zaman Dungakumar. Of course, this is episode 16 and we have made it through to Monday on day 38 of the national lockdown. And this evening we'll be talking about the pros and cons of renting versus buying. It's such a contentious one, with some people saying you shouldn't be renting because you're paying somebody else's bond. And with others saying, maybe buying might not be the best option, depending on what your circumstances are. But to help us unpack this, I'm joined by Yaku Hovla, who is the managing director of Prosperity Enterprise. Thank you so much for joining us again, Yaku. Thank you very much. It's great to join you all tonight. And so, and this is, this is one of those very contentious conversations, you know, because so many different people have different views around what should you be doing or what you shouldn't be doing, and even looking at, you know, the long term effects of home ownership, whether you actually get to make money or you're losing money, especially when you look at the different costs associated with home ownership. So I think for our viewers at home, I'd like us to unpack, you know, what are some of the pros and cons of renting, as well as buying, just to help them make this decision. I mean, I know some of them are already looking for a property to buy, going on to privateproperty.ca.z. Some of them are potentially looking for a new apartment to move into as soon as we're able to actually move after this lockdown. And maybe they just wanting to, you know, get a better sense of which one of the two might work for them and how they can best maximize whatever money they have, they might have left if, for example, they choose to rent instead of buying. And maybe then, Yaku, we can perhaps, maybe let's start with renting, because I think that's the one that gets the biggest, you know, slip or backlash when people kind of downing it a little bit. If we're going to just look at some of the advantages, you know, of renting before we even look at the disadvantages, perhaps let's look at some of the advantages to renting to help our viewers at home and understand why sometimes it might actually be better to rent instead of buying. Right. Thanks, Amantugua. Let's start with renting then. I think I'm very excited to jump straight into buying and talking about the advantages of buying, but there's definitely advantages in renting as well. And as we start answering that question and the question that people have around that something that I just want to point out that is so, so important to keep in mind is that acquiring a property or the home that you live in is one of the biggest emotional decisions that you make. And so often our emotions get entangled with our rationale when we need to make this decision. And because of that, often we are not thinking clearly when we make this decision. So I hope that with tonight's discussion we are actually going to be able to discuss that a bit and to put some pointers out there of things that you actually need to consider when looking at renting or buying. Now, Amantugua, one thing that I want to start with, with straight away, which speaks about renting and the advantages of renting is affordability. We live in an apartment age when people are living above their means. Now, I absolutely hate telling people to live below your means. You know, it's such a depressing statement to make. There's nothing fun about that statement. But at the end of the day, that is what responsibility is about. And it doesn't matter how much or how little money you have, you're never going to escape this statement. You're always going to have to live below your means. Now, I'm sure many of our listeners and viewers are very ambitious and they want to bold wealth and they want to not just own a property to live in but maybe bold an investment portfolio. But the true fact is that statement is still going to apply to you. After you are a multimillionaire, after you are a billionaire, that statement is still going to apply to you. You need to live below your means and you need to have a lifestyle that you can actually afford. Now, one of the great advantages of renting is that, well, you can rent above your means as well. You know, it doesn't set you free from that. But the big mistake of Amantugua that so many people make is they buy property, they spend too much on it and then they convince themselves by saying, but it's an investment. And that is the biggest mistake that you can make. And so often in this we combine the two. Now, we're going to speak about the combination of the two points, having a home and the lifestyle side of it and having an investment. You know, a home can definitely be an investment as well. But so often that gets used as an excuse to live above your means. Because now, and I see it very often with my clients as well, they go and buy a home that is so expensive and they justify that by saying that, you know, it's an investment, so it's fine. But actually all they are doing is they are overspending on their lifestyle. You know, a great advantage for me with renting is a lot of points around the ability. Usually less cash outflow and the flexibility that it gives us well, you know, not everybody knows where they want to live. You know, imagine you move to a new city. You don't just want to buy in the first suburb that you think is a nice suburb to live in. Renting creates a great opportunity to give you the flexibility of trying an area out, seeing how it is, and also it enables you to make moves or shifts. If something happens, for example, with your personal finances, it's much easier to get out of a rental, obviously with the requirements and that which needs to be done, but then getting rid of a property or selling a property. So the flexibility that renting gives you is one of the advantages that one has with renting. So flexibility is one. The first one that you had mentioned is affordability. Actually want us to make a point on this issue of affordability. You mentioned in passing that you're able to essentially even rent perhaps either above your means or rent something that's slightly more expensive. And I think what perhaps some viewers might not realize is that part of affordability when it comes to renting is that, you know, you might find, let's say an apartment, I was actually doing a quick search on this. You might find, let's say, an apartment in the Santan CBD area that's going for sale and it could easily be a one bed for 1.5 and rental for the same apartment could easily, for example, be $10,000. So you're finding that if you had to get a bond for it, you essentially be paying substantially more for the same place and paying less rent. And we're not even looking at the other associates to the cost, of course, because if you're, if you've bought the place, you're also going to be paying for the levies. Perhaps you might have, you know, insurance on top of that, whereas when you're renting, you're simply paying your rental and water and electricity. So I think that's probably one of the big things to understand when we look at affordability, when it comes to renting out that property that isn't just about, you know, living above or below your means, but it's also understanding that you could actually use, we'll say that access money as a way to potentially either pay off other debts if you're in debt, or maybe even, you know, save up for a deposit in the event where you actually want to buy a property. So I think that big affordability is actually quite an important one to understand that as much as some people might convince you that renting out that sent an apartment or whatever, you know, you're paying for somebody else's bond. When you sit down and actually do your own finances, you're easily able to recognize that it's not so much that you're paying for somebody else's bond, but you yourself actually also, you know, spending less money than what you would have spent had you actually bought that place. So we've got affordability, Yaku, we've got flexibility. What's another advantage of actually renting out? So as I said, and I suppose that all falls under flexibility, but I think an important point, or actually with affordability, but I'd like to differentiate between affordability and cash flow. There's an old saying that says cash is king. And you want to be sure irrespective of where you're at, whether it is whether you are an employee or an employer, business owner, whether you're an investor or not. It is important that you are in a healthy cash situation. Now, if renting can help you to improve your cash flow and your cash reserves, it might make sense for some time to do that because the big mistake that a lot of people make is they spread themselves to them, not just with affordability, but also from a cash flow perspective, they've got no reserves that if something unexpected happens or if something happens where they suddenly need money, they've got no emergency fund, they've got nothing bolt up. And also with a property because with a property, now don't get me wrong, a property is a great investment and I am much more pro buying a property than renting a property. Although in certain instances, and I'd love to discuss that in a little bit detail today, it makes more sense to buy. But then there's the other side of the coin as well. Sometimes the type of property that you would like to rent is not necessarily a good investment property. So you even get property investors that rent to where they live. So you would find somebody that owns a lot of small properties or a lot of investment properties, but the property that they live in, they ask themselves a question about does the cash flow and it's exactly that example you use. You've got a moment. Does it make sense to buy a year if I can rent. I've once had to the client and we've worked out if you rented the property that he lived in and he used the cash flow that he had of that properties. You could buy something like five or 10 investment properties. And I asked him the question. So what would you rather have have the one property that you own. And it's yours or still have that same lifestyle. You still live there, but you have five or 10 investment properties and and the cash flow is exactly the same. So another advantage for me of renting is that you can actually use the cash that you make available for other investments. And I want to say other property investors. We are on the private property show. So I'm allowed to vary very subjective or very pro property. But it's not just about being subjective. It's actually that we really believe that there's so much opportunity and so much ability to to bold wealth and financial freedom through investing in property. And that is also a an important thing to keep in mind is the cash flow that it makes available to make better investment property or acquire better investment properties. And of course then perhaps another advantage is around maintenance right so if you're renting out you typically don't have to cover those costs. I mean, even if something were to go wrong in the apartment, suppose that Giza burst, you're not as a tenant that isn't something that should be responsible to pay for it's only in the event where you damage something in that property. They need to actually be responsible for ensuring that it's fixed before you move out. But the burden of course of a lot of the maintenance or the fixtures of a property typically lie with the landlord. So if you're a tenant that isn't something you'd usually have to worry about. It's, it's very convenient. Yeah. You know, it's almost sounds like you say, you know, you can shift the responsibility and you can. And maybe that that also adds on to the flexibility that you have the ability to, you know, it doesn't it doesn't affect you that much. You just pick up the phone you phone the landlord and it gets repaired for you. But all of those. I don't know if I should call it headaches because it doesn't have to be headaches but all of those headaches that we are speaking about is also the reason why property could be a great investment to buy rather than to rent because you've used the example and it's very accurate, you know, buying a property and actually seeing the difference between the bond payment that you're going to pay that is so much more versus the ring. But then there are a lot of our viewers or listeners tonight. If they look at the type of property that they want to acquire also making sure that it is within their means and it is actually a property that they can afford to acquire. Very often that that those two numbers get very close to one another as well where your rental payment and your bond payment is actually very close to one another. It depends on the type of property that you rent. And in such an instance, for me it makes so much more sense to acquire the property rather to buy the property rather than to pay rent and then I agree with those saying that why would you want to pay us off somebody else's bond if you could buy almost the same amount or maybe a thousand grand more and you can actually start paying off your own property. Before we move on to, you know, looking at the buying side and I know you're itching for that because that's something that you advocate for quite a lot. Perhaps let's, you know, touch on maybe the top two even the top three disadvantages of renting that aren't particularly linked to some of the points that we're going to be discussing with the benefits or the advantages of buying. And so, you know, what are some of the disadvantages we like maybe not in terms of renting I mean we've already touched on on some of them but perhaps before we make that leak to now just exploring buying because I know that that's your favorite topic. Perhaps let's wrap this one around, you know, rating and perhaps the downside of renting. I think I think a lot of the disadvantages of rating will be discussed in advantages of buying as well. But let's look at a couple of them. I think number one is it is yet another expense on on your personal finances that is not building anything for you. Now, a lot of people and not a lot of people need a little bit of help to take responsibility. All of us in certain areas, you know, need something that can keep us accountable. Now, with with a rental payment that payment that payment goes every month and except for the month that we live in that property we've got nothing to show for it. You know, it's like eating out. It's very nice in the moment. But after you've after you've eaten it's finished. No, it's a mother makes a joke about this. You know, she'll say you go out, you go out to your friends and you go to fancy restaurants and you end up having quite a big bill that you'll split. But the moment you get home, you usually have another meal. So even if you get home at 9 o'clock, even though you ate a three course meal, you know, in the late evening in the late afternoon, you get home and you still dish up something for yourself. It's almost as though even that wasn't enough. There's still another cost that you essentially putting in. No, absolutely. But and then also, you know, maybe this is a little bit of a more controversial one. But who of you actually likes being told what to do? You know, I know for myself, I'm not I'm not very fond of being told what to do. You know, and when you are renting from somebody else, it's their rules. You know, yes, they need to respect your privacy and and and. But I don't like asking permission for things. I don't know if I'm allowed to say that. I don't like asking permission for things, you know, and when you when you are renting, it's like, you know, there's a lot more things that you need to ask permission for. You can't drill any wall. You must ask if you want to put something must ask for permission and typically a lot of landlords would actually just say no, because if all their tenants kept drilling and drilling, then, you know, their walls are going to be damaged. So those are some of the things that are probably, you know, a slip, especially for people who like yourself don't want to ask for permission from people just before this break, we're looking at, you know, the pros and cons of renting. We've exhausted them quite a bit. So some of them include flexibility and affordability. And with affordability, it isn't just about, you know, how much you can save. But it's also the cash flow that you're potentially able to, you know, open up in the event where you choose to rent. And what you can also do with that cash flow, you know, easily opening up a bit of cash flow can open up opportunities for you to buy additional investment properties. And of course, it's the advantages of not having to deal with maintenance in the downside. Well, the downside as you are saying is that you have this monthly expense that isn't going towards building anything. And also, somebody who's perhaps like you might not want to ask for permission when they want to do any changes in their particular apartment. But now I'd actually like us to look at the buying. And I know that this is something that you're quite passionate about, and you're quite a proponent of. Perhaps let's look at the benefits of the pros of buying when we're looking at the buying versus renting debates. What are some of the advantages of actually going and taking that next step and buying yourself a property. Right, so I think one thing that that that is very, very important. When we get to this point of the discussion, as we said in the beginning of this evening's interview as well is the fact that it is, it is so important to differentiate between investment and lifestyle sometimes you are going to be able to put the two together, but you still need to see it. I almost want to say it's two separate transactions. The one transaction is acquiring an investment property. And the other transaction is let's call it renting from yourself, you know, and you actually renting one of your investment properties. Now, at this point, it is so important for the viewers to understand how returns on investment property works, because if one doesn't understand that, often you will make an uninformed decision when it comes to buying a property and looking at the advantages of buying a property. So in property you have two returns. On the one side you've got the capital growth. Now that is the that is the value of the property appreciating every single year. And on the other side, you have rental income. Now some of you might be quick to say but hold on, you don't have rental income on this property because you can't rent it out. That's absolutely false because you are renting it out. You're renting it out to yourself. If you didn't pay that rent to yourself, you would have had to pay it to somebody else. So you can see it as an expense in your books, which you would in any way have and an income in the entity or in the as from an investment property perspective income that you're receiving. So you still have rental income and capital growth. So when looking at the investment property or looking at a home even and asking yourself, is this a good investment financially? And that's the first advantage I want to talk about is the financial advantages. We'll speak about the rest now. But financially, what is my return? Does this make sense for me to make this investment? And then you have to look at, okay, we've got the appreciation of the property, we've got the capital growth, and we have the rental income. And you know what the beautiful thing is, is that rental income income actually increases every year. Some cycles it increases faster than others. Now we are in a cycle where rent is increasing very slowly and has for some time. But then we may enter a cycle again where escalations are a little bit faster. And the same applies to capital growth. You have times when capital growth is slow, like we have seen the last couple of years. But then there are times where property grows at 30% in a year. Can you believe that that you can actually see a 30% growth. And there has been years in the past, where you can see a 30% growth in one year in capital appreciation of property. Now you have these high, you have these high years or high growth years and these very low growth years. And then you have an average. And when you look at the averages over the last 20 to 40 years on property. And I mean, there's so much great data out there that supports the statement that I'm making now is you are sitting with a very, very good capital growth. And what I often remind people to do is don't stay into the last three years, because usually when you make a property investment, it's not going to be for three years. Usually it would be for a longer term. If you want to make a short term investment then renting might be better for you. Unless you timed it well and you were, let's call it lucky as well. But, but if you are planning to keep that property longer. And I mean, looking at the 20 and the 40 year stats, you're looking at a year on year capital growth of about 10%. That's a very, very good return. And that's only half your return because then we haven't looked at the rental income yet, which would have, which is the rent that you have to pay on your personal expenses, wherever you want to live. So that's the financial advantages that has these different components as you're speaking about. You've got your capital growth, you've got your appreciation, you've got your rental growth that goes with the financial advantages. What are some of the advantages that people can look forward to in the event where they buy their first home? So for me and I'm a property investor, so I often look at, I often look at property from an investment perspective. And a lot of people want to try out property as an investment, but it's a very overwhelming, it's a very overwhelming thing buying a property. So if you think about it, what's your biggest expense that you've ever made before purchasing a property? You know, I mean, you spend a thousand grand a year, you spend 2000 grand a year, you buy yourself something of 10,000 grand and you thought long and hard about it. Now you want to buy a property and boom, there you have to, it's a million grand price there. Notice that the leave that you need to take from the type of transaction that you usually do to suddenly acquiring the home is a huge commitment and that can very often be overwhelming. And that is just the first step of property investment. So over and above that you've got tenant administration, you've got property management, you've got, and for me acquiring your first home as your first investment property is a great step into the investment space because you get to see the benefits of property without all the disadvantages. And I'm going to elaborate what I mean by that. So the first thing is you don't have to get a rental agent to manage that property for you because you are living in it yourself. I always joke and say unless it's not possible for you to manage yourself and you need somebody to vote by you, but in that case, it's maybe also better to rather rent. But now you've got the opportunity to own property and you've got, let's call it a better yield on that property because you pay the rent that you would have paid somewhere else. But then you've got that additional amount that you can save by not paying a rental agent. So that's your first benefit. Then secondly, you don't have to worry about defaults. Now, there's a lot of things that you can do to manage defaults or to manage nonpayment of tenants, but it's still something that sometimes happens. Sometimes tenants don't pay you. Sometimes you have to follow up. You have to phone for your money. Now the beautiful thing when you let's call it you rent from yourself is that that you don't have to follow up with yourself. And also because of the debit order, the bank takes its money. So you don't even have to physically pay the amount. All that stuff is really automated for you. That's a great benefit for me. And then the third one, and that goes with the disadvantage of renting that we discussed just before this is the fact that you can actually make changes to that property. And the beauty of it is the changes that you make can actually be just as much of an investment than what it is an expense. Let me give you a couple of examples. For example, put air conditioning into your property and you later move out and you want to put tenants in it may be that you can earn a better rental because of the fact that you've got air conditioning in your property, or it may be that you making improvements and beautifying the property that that actually increases increases the capital value or that brings appreciation to the property. While you enjoy the benefit of it. So so for me there's a double benefit in that regard you can invest in the property, you can improve the property, and it's, it's not water flushed down the toilet. It's actually, it actually adds, let's say it adds to your balance sheet that actually adds value or could add value let me rather say that to your property and that's a that's a nice benefit for me. And before we actually just go to some of the questions and comments from our viewers and remember if you've got any questions or comments do send them, and we will address them in just a but I think the last one that I would probably add is that when you're when you're buying you're essentially also paying to eventually get equity into a property so all those months of paying I mean, I know the first few years if you're paying that bond you're paying the interest component. If you really see yourself you don't see the equity component. So depending on whether you have you were able to put down a big deposit and as the years kind of progress, you're slowly building equity into that, you know, into that house that you might be able to utilize perhaps, you know, buy another property perhaps even refinance that one. But as if you're saying if you were renting for say, say seven to 10 years, that money is just gone, you know, there's no way of tapping into it there's no way of trying to access it to unlock other potential investment properties that you might want to purchase in the future. And I think that's probably one that we don't actually think about especially in the early years I mean when you're paying that bond in the first few years, you're hardly seeing a move when you look at that statement you know, it seems as though they're like pouring water into a well and you don't really see the work that you're putting in but as the years slowly progress you're actually able to see that, you know, even if I added that extra 500 or extra 800 grand, it actually does make a difference and go quite a long way, you know, in helping you not only pay off that bond facility faster but also build up a bit of equity in that bond facility. Mayak, we've got a few, you know, questions and comments from our viewers at home. One of them comes from Stephanie Love Whitpoi who asks, what are the pros and cons of purchasing a property cash, because I think a lot of the examples certainly with purchasing a property we've been looking at bonded properties. So what are the, what are the, I think perks or the downsides of doing it cash, I've heard different variations of this I'd actually be glad to hear what your view on this one is, especially as an investor, because I hear a lot of investors saying, you know, take as many bond facilities as the bank is willing to extend to you, don't put down too much money on each respective property. But if you do have that one million grand cash, is it advisable to just buy cash you don't have to deal with the bank and paying bonds and those kind of expenses. Great question. Very, very, very good question. And I'm glad we are increasing this tonight. The first thing that I want to say is that it very, and you know, we discussed this previously as well. It very much depends on your plan and what it is that you want to achieve. The first thing that you need to ask yourself and I mean this is this is a financial question but it's not just a financial question that's with everything in life is where would you like to go, where would you like to end up what kind of life would you like to live. And once you've set that goal, you can start asking yourself but what do I need to do to get there. Now, there's this there's something about being dead free in your personal capacity there's a, there's a burden or a stress that is lifted from your shoulders when you can live in a property and you know that properties paid off cash you know so I'd like to start with the advantages of buying a property cash, you know, I think from a psychological perspective and from an emotional perspective, it's, it's a, it's a great, it's a great place to be to know that, even if you lose your job, even if you don't have income, you don't have this bond that you need to keep on paying your personal life is taken care of. What's also great about that is, depending on on where you are at, what else have you got to do with the money that you would like to invest in property if you give it to a skilled property investor, yes, they might be acquire a number of discounted properties and bond everything and throw that that cash into the reserves and with that million round maybe buy 10 properties instead of one properties that you need a certain amount of skill to do that as well otherwise you're going to lose your fingers. So again, the question is where are you at, because when you are not at a place where you can do that, and you don't have a better place to, to maybe put that million round, it could be a great place to put it there. Again, speaking about your return, what would your return be, you would have had to pay rent somewhere. So your rental income would have been your one side of your return and the other side of your return would have been the capital growth of the capital appreciation of that property. If you add those two together, you actually get a pretty good return even on a cash investment. If you compare it to similar investments also looking at the low risk of making a cash investment in property. So you still have a good return. But then I want to say that the disadvantage of it is you miss out on one of the greatest advantages of property investment and that's leverage. And the fact that you can with leverage do much more than what that what you have in your hand. You know that the simple illustration of leverage is being able to acquire a million rent property with 40,000 of your own money for transfer costs if you got 100% If you already say 50,000 rent in costs, if you had million rent property that you will acquire it. So being able to make a million rent investment and only using 50,000 grand of your own money. If that investment does well, it can create so much wealth for you. So the big disadvantage for me of buying a property cash is that you miss out on the leverage opportunity where you can do so much more with that same amount of money. And I think it's something that perhaps, you know, some people might not think about or as you say it really does depend on where you are on your journey. And perhaps some people are not trying to have 1020 or more investment properties because I only say sometimes, you know, some people just want the home that they're staying in, maybe one or two additional, you know, apartments and that's it. They're not trying to build a big property portfolio. Perhaps they are spreading their investments across other asset classes and property to them is not the biggest share of the investment portfolio. So really understanding where you are as, you know, somebody who's got that cash on hand and whether whether you choose to acquire property with it, or perhaps, you know, up to invested and other vehicles. Understanding where you are and what your investment strategy is, it's probably able to help you the most in trying to decide what we can do with the what you can potentially do with that additional money. I do see some of your questions coming into our viewers at home. Bruno has asked a really good question. I'll pose it to you. Yeah, it isn't quite what we're talking about, but I know that you actually able to answer this one. Some of the other questions and I'm glad that they're preemptively being asked. Some of them we actually will be dealing with with them during the course of the week. And before we wrap up, I'll actually let you know some of the topics that we'll be dealing with later on in this week so that you are you can categorize it and you tune in and you can ask our expert guests, those specific questions. So this question is coming from Bruno DeSantis who's asked, good evening guys I have two properties bonded. They are in my name, would it be better, would it be a better idea to put them as a business or a company. That's also a very good question and we definitely gonna need an additional session to speak about detail. But if I may, I would like to give a summary on that, that to speak about it and we touched on it previously as well. I would say that if you are looking at building your property investment portfolio now that could be slowly but surely growing those two properties to maybe three or four or five properties as time goes by, or maybe aggressively let's call it a property empire, structuring becomes more important. The example we used last time is where we said that buying investment property in your own name is like running a business through your savings account. You know, it will work for the first couple of months, but as that business starts to grow, the lack of control, the lack of being able to get financing or funding to expand further in the business starts to limit you very much. And where you start meeting the structure that an entity such as a company or a trust can give you and the financial statements of those entities to maybe get funding or financing where that becomes more and more important. So I think without going into too much detail, because it is something that we will cover in more detail at some point is that if you want to bold a property portfolio, you have to look at structuring. It's not something that you can bold in your own name. And also that being said, often by restructuring your property portfolio and maybe moving the properties to an entity. It also creates an opportunity not just to get your structure right, but also to get capital available because by moving it into a company or into a trust. It may be that you take new bonds at market value and make a lot of cash available that you can use to invest further. Now, this is some of the little bit more advanced techniques of investment that we speak about where you need the skill and where you need to know what you are doing in property investment to make sure that you don't burn your fingers but also where it creates a lot of opportunity for you to to bold your property portfolio further. You know, I think that's actually where we're going to leave it for this evening and I did say that we're definitely going to have you back to talk about structuring and perhaps even later on leveraging it is one of those burning questions that I've used at home actually want to know. One of those things that you need to speak to someone who's actually done it a couple of times, who can help us understand what is the best way I think some of us when we started on our property journey. You know, we had a lot of our properties in our names and that our interest in property grew and now we essentially wanting to know how do we make sure that we run it like a business and we talk about running your portfolio like a business. What does that actually mean so beyond making sure that they're you know they're under a PTY or perhaps even a trust. What does that mean on a Monday evening you know when you say you're running your portfolio like a business. I think those are some of the things that perhaps our views at home need help with in order to make sure that for those who want to start on their property journey, perhaps this year or maybe in the coming months, they're best equipped to be able to make those decisions. So thank you very much to all of you with your saying thank you for this much needed information and we really do hope that you can send more of your questions and comments so in the event where there's certain topics that you'd like to you'd like us to speak to do send them through. Like I said, you're out we saw your question and throughout that drill chapter rather you've sent through some questions like I promised we will be dealing with some of the questions that you've actually put us later on in the week. So for example, in tomorrow's show we're actually going to be looking at some of the secrets that estate agents want you to know you absolutely do not want to miss that one. Those are the five secrets every estate agent wants you to know on your property journey and buying your property. So do make sure that you tune in for tomorrow's show as well. Yaku. Thank you very much for joining us this evening to our viewers at home. Do continue commenting on our Facebook page inviting more of your friends to watch our subsequent episodes and this one as well. And of course if you've got any buying, selling or rental needs, go to www.privateproperty.co.za and we'll be sure to you know address some of those issues concerns and you'll also be able to read up on some of some read up rather on some of some tips and tricks to help you navigate your property journey. It's been really great this evening. Yaku. Thank you very much. And I hope to our viewers at home. You're staying home and you're staying safe. Good night.