 Okay, welcome back. We started our first hour on learning about another micro skill which is questioning. We did look at a little bit of a background of why is questioning important, what is the purpose that it follows, why is productive questioning needed in counselling sessions. We'll quickly look at a few more details and then we'll try and put what we learned to practice. So to broadly look at there are two main types of questions that is used, not just in counselling but in every form of an industry where there is communication needed, that is the open and the close ended questions. The open questions are those that cannot be answered in just a few words. It does require a lot more of descriptions in it, open questions encourage the counselling to speak and it brings about certain opportunities for the counsellor to gather some information about the counselling and whatever issues that they're going through. So the best approach is to follow a response to an open ended question is with paraphrase or reflection, which encourages the counsellor to share more and this of course avoids repetitive patterns of question, answer, question, answer. So even with the flow of it, which we are going to be looking at, I'll give you a quick example of what an ideal pattern of questions, a flow of questions may look like in the slides to come. So the open questions generally begin with what, why, how or could. Like for example what has brought you here today, why do you think that, how did you come to consider this, could you tell me what brings you here today. Now these are specifically called detail, the specific detail questions focus on these words of how, where, when and what it does is it aims to collect the, to collect specific information about the problems that a counsellor may be going through or certain patterns of problems. Now these questions focus on what and where, it can include information you could actually bring about a few combinations of these questions. Yes, so open questions and let me just give you certain examples of this. Like when you're asking for a how, what it is doing is it's inviting the counsellor to bring about some, to talk about what they may be going through. So it invites them to talk about their feelings. And you see an example here, how do you feel about the way your husband talks about separation all the time. And that's how, how questions help or how do you think even, even questions about the thought processes are also where you could bring about how questions. What questions leads to the emergence of facts. Okay, like what happens when your son gets angry and you get to understand the detailed flow of events that happen. So you're beginning to see how different people in that equation begin to react to something when you ask what questions. When questions bring information regarding the timing of the problem, the events or any kind of information that occurs before and after or something that proceeds or follows the event. So where questions reveal the environment, it reveals the situation or place that the event took place. And you see some of the examples of when did this happen, when do you wish to talk to him about your problem. These when questions are also helpful for the last phase of it, especially at the action phase is where you're getting them to commit to something. When would you like to consider doing things that you suggested a minute ago, or like this when do you wish to talk to him about your problem or when, when would you like to discuss what you're going through or when would you, or when do you think is an accurate time to talk about your feelings with your husband or whatever. So that really helps in actually moving them to a point of action where of course reveals the place of the event, where does your child feel most comfortable. Why is information regarding the reasons of the event. So, and this is this can be why questions are important. However, there needs to be care taken when why questions are handled, because often, I think we will bring that in the next slide so I'll wait for it there. But why questions would be why do you think your parents are unhappy with you. Why does this job make you feel special. This may not come out directly in the, you know, in the client in the counseling story and that's why a white question really helps to understand a little bit more about a situation. The caution in using these white questions is you've got to be careful because they can often provoke feelings of defensiveness, okay, and may make them have a need to justify themselves, okay, in some way. So, if you look at these two questions that are some examples here the question is why did you get angry with your husband. Okay, they would often probably feel defensive to answer that question or more, it may be more a question the kind of pin points that something is wrong. Instead you use a question like you must have been angry with your husband isn't it right and that kind of helps to build on the yeah I got angry because you know I feel that he doesn't care or he doesn't whatever so you know it when you've actually brought about a feeling you must be angry isn't it you're still waiting for a response to to that or they may say yes he made me feel angry then you could say could you tell me more about that what did it mean to you or you know what emotions came up and what it meant to you so that really helps to get you to understand a little bit more. Or the next one why haven't you been going to college instead to use this question what is it about college that you find challenging. Okay, so there again it brings about a bit more exploration so being careful about how you use those why questions, whereas closed questions are they are answered with just smaller responses one word responses yes no not sure it's extremely restrictive. It is used only when you want to focus on information specific information and sometimes these questions are appropriate such as when you're trying to clarify and understand something and you see that these questions often start with the words of is or do. Okay, some examples are sorry. So some examples of this is do you stay with your parents are you working, are you feeling sad so these are very specific to to details that they would that you would want so quickly let's just look at what is the difference between a closed and open and. What how how these kind of help close questions usually reflect on a narrow answer and it is very focused like I said on very specific things, whereas open questions invite the counseling to feel to speak about what they're feeling and and it is and it has a. Excuse me, it has a larger focus it has a broader focus and as a result it adds on to a lot more of understanding and exploration, whereas in closed questions, there is no avenue given for a deeper discovery of the issue. Kind of excuse me just needed a glass of water kind excuse me. Close questions are usually very factual and they are. That is it has a specific specificity to it, whereas in open questions there's a lot more. You're you're opening in that it out for a lot more of information and it gives space to some structure for the counseling themselves close ended questions anxious clients may feel a little bit more comfortable with something that's more defined like a q amp a format. Whereas those who may be reluctant may feel less threatened with open type because it gives them the freedom to plan and discuss whatever they are open to discussing. A closed. Question questions sets an agenda, you want to focus on one specific thing in the open one, the council is the one that sets the agenda. Okay, in closed questions, they are constructed to lead to a certain point. Okay, and it is maybe here it's sometimes made to make a point you want to bring about some point that the person has said the consulate has said and you want to bring about a point like for example. You loved your father, didn't you, you know, so you're probably bringing about a certain point that you would want to focus on, whereas in open ended the questions follow the councillors lead and this helps in your next response. What do you miss about your father so whatever the councillor is saying that becomes the next agenda. Okay. Here are some examples of certain closed and open ended questions open ended questions and sell me about your feelings tell me about depression. How do you feel you're going to do this semester tell me about your family. How do they enter into your decision. As against the closed questions when did you first notice you were getting depressed so they say okay last week or two weeks ago, or for the same one of the second one is do you think your grades will be lower or higher this semester. Okay, as against the other question of how do you feel you're going to do this semester, or the last one do you feel your family is helping or hindering you with your decision, you know so the very direct questions but the others actually help to explore more. There are certain other questions that we use in through through our sessions, and I'm just just a brief introduction of this, just so that you're aware. Okay, and some of this are called clarification questions here clarification is where you seeking information and identifying the the perception of what your counseling has said so you're rephrasing their words and their phrases so you may say something when you say when you say you're upset what do you mean, or when you say sometimes like I said they use certain right so recently one of my councillors used to jargon and said roller spin we go into roller spins. Okay, so I said when you say roller spins what did you mean, right, because they may think they may understand what they're trying to say but they may not have you may not have picked that up. Okay, so or you're clarifying sounds to me like you're saying, and you're giving a certain clarification about what how you have understood it so those are clarification questions. Elaboration questions very simple when you want to, when you want your councillor to elaborate on something that open questions questions that give them an opportunity to expand on what they're already talking about like would you care to elaborate is there anything more that you wish to add. Okay, or illicit personal meaning questions. This these questions provides that any kind of a personal or symbolic meaning that they that it has for them, like they may say something like you know, every year in the month of March. This happens. Okay, so you want to know what is their connection about March and this happening thing so. So this is this is something that that really helps in eliciting what personally so I'm wondering about the meaning of this event happening every March for the last five years. What what does that mean to you. Okay, so you're you're actually trying to figure out what are the processes of thoughts over there. So eliciting personal meaning questions should be open and tentative since the councillor should in principle know the answer better than anyone anyone else. Okay, so that's why you would you would need to use this this kind of questioning so what do you make out of that. Why does this seem so important for you all of this helps in eliciting information and eliciting meaning rather eliciting meaning. Okay, the next one is what we call as the solution focused questions. Ask councillors to provide information concerning the extent to which they have tried or are trying to do something about their problems you know what all have they tried and what all are they willing to try. So those questions would be what have you attempted to do about the problem to get a job or what are your options or what do you plan to do. Or how do you hope to change your behavior in this case you know so that all of this helps at a greater level of working through solutions. What are some wrong techniques that we need to avoid. The first one is like we said bombardment. This occurs when when often councillors get caught in in asking too many questions one after the other in doing so, you know, you're also leading the councillor to to discuss what you think is important. So bombardment grilling is something that you need to avoid. Okay, multiple questions. Now this occurs when councillors are several questions at once like this example please tell me about yourself how old are you wherever you are do you have children what do you do for a living. Okay, and this these can this can often be difficult, especially for councillors who do one thing at a time are not councillors who are not multitaskers who can do one thing at a time. So being aware that that may not be an extremely good technique to do. Okay, the next one is questions that are used as statements. Now this occurs when the councillors use questions as a way to sell their own point. Okay, of view. For example, you know, don't you think it would be helpful if you studied more. Right. So, so you are, you're bringing about your own point of view there but then you've kind of nicely sugar coated it and bought it forth as a as a question. Or the last one is too many why questions, you know, why did you do that so these are certain techniques that we should, we should look at avoiding during counseling, during using the skin. Okay, so here's just a basic ideal pattern. And again, you know, there's a lot more that a councillor can say but I've just kind of, you know, briefed it up a little bit so that you can kind of follow how where is it that this follows and this is back to Mary's case or John's case. Okay, so here, the initial responses you respond to feelings and you say, you're worried about these relationships. Can you tell me more, see that there is a, there is an open questioning that happens here. And maybe after they said something you bought in about a paraphrase and you said, Okay, the others seem to get on well, but you seem to be left out. Yes, there's a responding to content there. Okay, you're responding to content and from there, there's another open question. How do they behave with you. So there's a clarification that happens. It says so you don't feel included rather than they dislike you have I got you right. Okay, then comes another open question and how do you behave towards them. And then comes the personalizing you feel lonely because you keep more to yourself and would like to overcome your fear of them. Okay, so this is generally how you would focus, you know, how a pattern of questions and answers questions should follow. Okay. Quickly, just some, some important things of what are some powerful questions that you can use in when you are identifying an issue. Here are some of the good questions to ask, ask. Okay, what seems to be the trouble. What do you make out of whatever the issues, how do you feel about that. What concerns you the most about something. What seems to be the problem. What seems to be a main obstacle. What is holding you back. Okay, so you're trying to identify what they feel about a certain issue. Okay, the second is further information. How do you pick up more information and these are these are common questions right. Please tell me more about something. What are the ways did you try so far this really helps you to get a lot of these these do help because it, it brings about and like, like an overall understanding of your counseling outcomes. So there are questions as to helping them look forward into what they want turned out in their lives. Okay, like how do you want your marriage to turn out, or what do you see as your desired outcome, or what is your plan or if you do this how do you think it's going to affect your marriage actually, this is actually helping them see that if they were to do something, what kind of an outcome would it bring and this really helps them to make their choice, make their decisions about a certain issue. And of course, taking action those questions that come in in working out the plan. What will you like to do when do you think you can start let's review your steps. What are your next steps of these questions are generally used to gear your counseling into into action. Okay. Yeah, so, so this is this is in in short. I think all that you really need to know about about the skill of questioning. Now I think we will move to the next most important part is let's have a role play and this time it's, it's all of you who are going to do this. Okay, so we'd I'd like to maybe follow up with two, two role plays. So, so we'll have two pairs each, and the rest of us will listen through. Okay, and I know this is a time that people would just want to escape and call off the meeting, but that's not the right time to do it. Okay, so stick on and brave it up. And let's have some volunteers for this remember this is a learning exercise. Okay, and there is this is the best place it's a laboratory what is the laboratory where you can make all your mistakes. Right, so go ahead and be bold and be be a counselor and come in as honestly so what what is our focus is just to remember the focus is not to give find a solution. Okay, please, I remember the last time and we had it, everyone wanted to finish with a solution. Okay, you know, okay, this is your problem, you do this, this and then they were very happy. That's not the exercise. The exercise is just to learn how to ask the questions and making it effective questions. Okay, so don't look for the solution, you're not going to advocate for Lali over here. Okay, you're only trying to understand how you can work through these questions. Okay. All right, so who would like to volunteer to volunteers. Okay, students. I can be the counselor. Oh, thank you Christopher. All right, so Christopher is going to be a counselor who's going to be Lali or Lala. Anybody. Come on, come on, come on the counseling job is not too difficult. Christopher is braved it out. Mangi. Okay, so Mangi is going to be the going to be the counseling and Christopher is going to be the counselor so Lali, I mean, Mangi, sorry, you, you called Christopher earlier, and you've asked for help, because of problems with your spouse and on your arrival, you have a black eye, several bruises on your face and a broken arm. Okay. All right, go ahead. Okay, the rest of you, please make observations of questions and how it, you know, how, how, what kind of questions are being used so you can look at open questions, closed ended questions as questions of clarification questions of solution for all of that so keep that in mind and just keep notes. Yes, go ahead. Thank you, Pastor. So just to confirm, Pastor, I mean, Mangi, you're going to be, I mean, I just want to understand that, you know, because you're supposed to have a black eye and everything. So is your wife beating you or are you behaving, are you going to be the wife basically? In this case, he's the, he's the spouse who's being beaten. Okay. Okay, so let's say, let's say, Mangi, do you want to be a husband or a wife, Mangi? No problem, Pastor, I can be a husband who's being beaten by his wife. So you're going to be the husband who has beaten his wife? So you're going there? I'll be a husband who's been beaten by their wife. I'll be a husband who's beaten by the wife. Okay. All right. So he's just changed. He's just the husband, but the wife has beaten him and he's come to you. Okay. And you're still, and you're going to be Mangi, right? Not Lali. Okay. All right. Okay. Yes. Good morning, Mangi. It's good to see you. How are you feeling today? Good morning, Chancellor. I'm not, I'm not feeling well. I'm not doing well at all. Yes, I can see that you will use, you seem to have a black eye and you also have quite a few bruises on your face. Oh, also, and your, and your neck and you also have a broken arm on a, on a sleeve. You obviously are quite, you know, you've been affected physically. Can you tell me something about this? How did this happen, Mangi? Yeah, this is a problem I'm having at home. My wife, my wife is not disrespecting me. I don't know how to go about it, Chancellor. Right, right. And how long, how long has it been since you've been married, Mangi? It's been three years. Three years. Okay. And did you know your wife before you, before you got married? I mean, how many years did you know your wife before you got married? We dated for three years and eight months. Then we decided to get married because we couldn't stay away from her. Oh, okay. Okay. Right. So, do you all, do you all fight quite a lot, Mangi? I mean, what are some of the, some of the issues that you may be facing with your wife? Chancellor, I'm here for you to find, to give me a solution to how I can, I can solve my problem home, but not, I don't want you to go into deep problem. I want you to tell me how I can bring peace into my marriage. Yes, yes. No, I understand that. I, the reason I'm asking this question now, Mangi, is that I just want to understand are there any, are there any factors that are, that are leading to this? You know, to this situation that you're facing? Usually in, you know, when husband and wife fight, usually it is, it is, you know, verbal in nature and, you know, there are husband and wife exchange, but a lot of harsh words. But in this case, as you, as you mentioned, there seems to be some physical abuse. So I just want to go and get a little more detail about, you know, why this is happening. How, how do you, how do you, how do you sort of, you know, how will your wife and you sort of, you know, relate to each other? Do you have any ideas, any topics that, you know, that create friction? Yes, we do. Yes, we do have some areas. One of them is finances. And another of them, another is friendship. She likes hanging out with a bad company and anytime I try to tell her to not hang out with them, we quarrel or we fight. Right, right. And usually how does, how does this, how does this end actually? I mean, this kind of quarrel, you know, with finances, for example, how does it end? How do you, how do you, does it get resolved? Not much because she, she's got a strong character and she, she, she wins most of the time. She, her decisions are final. And I don't know how to, to stop it. Yes. Yes. What, what, what, what would be the, what would you, what, what do you think this is the, is the area that is more important? Is it finances or is it about, is it the, the friends that she, that she has, you know, that you mentioned that, you know, she hangs out with other people. How do you, which one do you think it creates more friction? Kansela, I think they are both connected because one influences another. Our friends, they like drinking. So they, they use the money to go and drink. So Kansela, if you were in my shoes, how would you react or how, how would you handle this? Yes, I, I think what, what we're trying to do here, Maggie is to try and resolve the problem. I have, when you ask me about what, what I would be doing, I think I would have to go back to some of the, some of the cases that I, some of the people I've met who I've helped for. And I still need to be able to get some, get some more detail from you. And definitely some of the information you have dealt, you have shared with me now has helped. So what we need to try and plan for Maggie is, is, is, is another session where you can share some more information about how you can, you know, you know, the situation that you're going through. And then I can, then I can help you, help you to find the, you know, find the right solution for your problem. Thank you. Thank you very much. I'm happy to do that. I'll, I'll, I'll set up another appointment. Thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah. Okay, good job. Good job. Thank you. I think that is very brave. All right. Okay, so let's, let's hear from our counseling. Maggie, what did you feel what to tell, tell us what you went through as your counselor took you through the last five minutes being Maggie, a beaten bruised her. I would say he tried his best to ask me some questions, but I believe he could have pressed more and be more friendly. It tried to be a counselor. And he should have tried to stop. Is it empathy or empathy or empathy? Empathy. Empathy, yeah. So I can open up more and relate more as a friend. I believe so, so that in the future I can open up more and even tell him more, speak, speak, speak up on your mind. The counselor tries best to help. There was a lack of empathy, a sense that he understood what you were going through. And you felt if there was, there was empathy, it could, you would have been able to open up a little bit more. Okay. What has the classes observation been? Remember, this is not a reflection on Christopher at all. Okay. This is this is just just a learning exercise. So we're taking this as, as a learning. Okay, so what have been observations that the rest of you found. I think Christopher, let's hear from you. What is your observation been, Louie, I'll come back to you in a moment. Christopher, what's your observation been about your own, your own five minutes of talking to Maggie. I think, I think for me it was kind of a, you know, a difficult one. I was trying to imagine that, you know, someone in front of me who's, you know, physically abused and trying to, you know, trying to, you know, be empathetic but also to try and, you know, be trying to trying to also, you know, understand what, you know, what are some of the, some of the factors or some of the, you know, the reasons why this is happening. So, not sure if I was, I got into that bit early in the session itself. So I think it's, you know, the, it was, for me it was like a little bit of an intellectual kind of exercise, trying to struggle, you know, struggling with, you know, asking the question. And also having, you know, trying to, you know, proceed with the conversation, not just with questioning but also trying to, you know, clarify and, I mean, in a sense empathize also. But because it became intellectual, I think I lost a little bit on the empathy side. Okay. Okay. Yeah, that's a good observation. Yes. Louis, you'd like to, you had raised your arm, raised your hand. Yes. Yes, my good morning. Well, Chris, well done. Well, I'm not, I'm trying to look at it from a, let me put this way, my scripture just came alive. It was touched by the feelings of our informatics so that he will become the high priest and make it a session for us. So I think if you sometimes cannot relate with the situation, you may not be able to have the right questions to ask in the way you should ask them. Because in Africa, it's easy to figure out that a woman is the one being beaten, but when it flips, like, so as a counselor, if you don't have that background, sometimes you may not be able to ask the right questions. So I just, I just feel that sometimes we should be able to have an idea what that kind of situation is in real life, to be able to ask the right questions. Just an observation, generally, not just on this role play alone, but generally, even as pastors, as friends, as, you know, what we do, we should be able to have a tangibility of that kind of a situation so that we have a play in our mind, what kind of questions or what the person might be going through, what kind of, you know, that sport you might be wanting to put light on in the person's interaction. Thank you, Ma. Thank you. Thank you, Louis. Interesting. Yes. Yeshe? Yes, Pastor. Okay, a counselor and the counselor, well done. Just a few observations. From the counselor side, I feel there was no connection, you know, with the counselor while he was bringing up all his issues. And then the other part of, the other thing I also observed is that there were lots of closed-ended questions. If there were questions that explored, for instance, the question about have you, did you know your wife before you got married? Maybe what would have been said was that how was your relationship, you know, before you got married? That would have given you more perspective, you know, to know how it was before and then how we degenerated into that, you know. So maybe just more open-ended questions that explored to really understand how the marriage was before, how the marriage got to where it was, you know, those kinds of questions, instead of just direct questions that just gave answers. And then the last thing was, I know you also wanted to, like, engage the counseling by responding, but sometimes when we say, oh, right, it might sound a bit judgmental in a way, maybe another way of responding to giving a good response that shows that you're following. Maybe, like, oh, I see, you know, or something else, basically. I don't know, maybe it's just a tone, maybe. So this is just my observation. Good. Thank you. Thank you, Shay. Great. Good observations. Samuel? I think to begin with, it was a really difficult scenario, you know, like a husband being black-eyed, broken-eyed and by a wife. So I think, I mean, like, probably I'm thinking counselor would have been called. Sorry, Samuel, we lost you. What did you just finish? Can you hear me? Yeah, yeah, now we can. No. You're saying the scenario in itself was difficult? It's a very difficult, it's like a rare scenario. Probably I would imagine it was like the wife hired a bunch of... Okay, probably the wife hired a bunch of goons, is it? Okay. Other than that, I think the question that I like... Sorry, Samuel, we're losing you in between. Sorry, can you hear me? Yeah, yeah, go on, go on, yeah. And Maggie was really opening up was, what do you guys fight about? And French, I think that was a great question to ask. Just from those talks, a little bit. Okay. All right. Okay, great. Thank you. Thank you, Samuel. Harrison? All right. Thank you very much. I really love the conversation between the counselor and the counsellor. And I also enjoyed the feedback of the counsellor, because why the questions were coming, he was also critical and detailed, you know, with his feedback. And I loved the way he responded. But I observed that even the questions, you know, kind of triggered into the counsellor, you know, somehow, you know, kind of he was a little bit provoked in a sense that he told him and said, I'm here for you to find, give me a solution. So I'm not here for, but I need a solution. So in that case, I felt that the counsellor was upset somehow. You know, because he was not getting what he wanted. So that prompted him, you know, to ask the counsellor that question by saying, counsellor, I'm here for you to give me a solution. So like Brother Shay said, you know, there were too many questions, you know, coming at the same time. Although there should be room, you know, for the counsellor to give to the counsellor so that the questions he would be asking would be more critical, more detailed, you know, for him to be able to understand the situation. Like Samuel said, it is very rare for a man to be beaten by a woman and not just beaten, but beaten in a black and blue because, you know, from the counsellor's point of view, he had a lot of bruises. So there must be a room enough for him to understand the real problem, as in what is behind the problem. So with that, you know, he can be able to address other things. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Good. All right. So there are a lot more of, you know, comments on the chat. I'll probably look at that, but I just wanted to make a couple of observations. So when you're seeing something, you've noticed someone who is bruised in front of you, right? And the first, so I know this seems, it's a very staged setting right now and there are people listening on, but in your natural response, what would you naturally focus on? If you would see somebody bruised and hurt, what would you naturally focus on? Would you naturally focus on finding out? Yeah, you would. I'm talking about first-hand expressions. You may not go into a lot more details maybe in the first two, three minutes about what really happened, but you're going to be looking at the person. Okay. And what you are seeing of like, for example, so something that Christopher said in the beginning was, you know, I see that you're bruised. I see you have a thing. How are you feeling today? All right. Maybe a question is not something that may be appropriate there, but it is a response. So something like, hey, Lali, you know, I definitely do see that you are in a lot of pain. I see that you're hurt. I just want to check, are you okay? Is there something that I can do to help you physically at this point of time? That's something that you would maybe initially right in the front do. Why would you do that? Is because there is a sense of care and concern that you are showing to ensure that they are comfortable. Okay. Yeah, they may have got their initial first aid and then they've come to you. But nevertheless, you are seeing, you're seeing a picture that you don't see on a daily, on a regular basis. So that's the first thing. If you see someone fallen on the road, what would you first do is go pick them up, give them some water, ensure that they are comfortable and then ask them, how did this happen? So that's probably the first thing that you would do. A sense of empathy that you are showing a person from what you are just able to observe. Okay, that's one. Again, I understand that this is a simulated staged response and that's why, you know, so perfectly. I mean, I think, Christopher, you did a great job in really trying to elicit. But through the entire conversation, I think what you lost out on was some of your questions were extremely effective. But what you lost out on was what have you sensed is the feeling or the emotions that Lali or Maggie is going through. Okay. And to bring that out to elicit that out. Okay, that was that was one thing that maybe one question flowed one into another. So in between, if you remember the ideal form of questioning, you'd see that there's some bit of paraphrasing, there's some bit of reflection, there's some bit of responding, there's some bit of questioning, it flowed that way. So to be able to come back and maybe summarize or to bring about some understanding, you may need to use different skills rather than just bringing about counseling. In between you heard Maggie said, hey, counselor, I need a solution. All right. So what does that show you it's showing that maybe the counseling is in a desperate state to figure out something right now here then there. Right, that's, that's what they are. Now, is that something that's possible. No, you and I know it isn't possible to find a solution there then there. What is it you can maybe a reflection is, I do sense that there is a there is a state of urgency that you have in resolving this. And I would definitely like to help you with that so you, you are agreeing that this is an urgent matter. Okay. And I'd like to help you working through this together. So you're reflecting that alongside with with your counsel counseling. Or I think he asked you a very direct question, which was, I think he asked you a very direct question right something I don't I didn't write don't seem to have written that yet. What will you do or what what in your experience should be done or something to that effect. Yeah, what will you do what will you do if you in my shoe. What would you do if you were in my shoes. Okay, so there again, that's that's that's again showing a sense of urgency. Right, so the way that you reflect back is, you know, I'm sure you would like to know what have been different forms of methods of forms of methods that people have used. And I'd like to explore that with you, so that we can make it more effective in your situation. So what you're what you're generally doing is so sometimes we may we may deflect. Okay, or we may tend to ignore, but the point is to catch on some of those catch on some of those and say, yes, I see this need. I see that, you know, this is something that's urgent for you or you would like to see the methods but here, I'm here to work this alongside with you. Okay, so, so you are, you are being very mindful of the fact that this is just not or you're helping your councillors see this is not just about you've been beaten. This is the solution. That's it. No, you are helping your councillor to see you've been beaten. I respect you as a person. I want to see where you are at. I want to also help you find a solution. So that's what you are trying to connect through the entire source of your source of your sessions. Okay. All right. Anybody else has any other observations? Nobody else. Okay, so we've good job. I'm really proud of Maggie and Christopher for having taken up the challenge. Yes, Christopher, you have a question. Yes, I just wanted to, firstly, thanks to everyone for all the feedback. And what I, at the point, I wanted to just also bring up and it's not for this particular session, but something that just struck me when I was, you know, as I was listening to this, I mean, some of the feedback. What, what if there's a scenario where, you know, the councillor is, I mean, obviously not in this kind of scenario where the councillor is bruised and everything, but they may be just in a case where the councillor has been emotionally abused. And maybe they are glossing over the fact and they're not actually revealing what, you know, what really is the problem. So for example, I'm just saying that, you know, suppose some family member is abusing them emotionally or whatever, and therefore, you know, they are, you know, they have come for help, but they may not want to even reveal, you know, what actually is the underlying problem. I'm just thinking that, is there a, is there a question which can be, in a sense, you know, not, not, not a, not a very, you know, mild question, but something that will, you know, get the councillor to get, you know, actually respond. Maybe, you know, in an upset way, in an upset way, in an angry way. And then, you know, they are in a position to then reveal. So I'm just saying, I just, I guess what I'm coming from is the question that can really, you know, try to get to the bottom of things. But it's not, it's not, it's not, you know, done in a, in a, in a, you know, the question is not a, not a, not a. Direct fashion. You know, it's something that will get them to get them excited, get them really, you know, excited or get them upset. So in a case like this where, where, you know, families abusing and they are, they're probably not bringing it up. I think more than it just having to do with your skill. It also has to do with your relationship that they trusted to share what they may be going through. So that's why your skills of attending and responding really builds that environment of trust so that they could share deeper. For example, some of the questions that if we were to only get into a questioning mode, but not into a place of understanding, then it becomes more like, you know, an intellectual information gathering understanding. That's, that's where, and that's what may not bring them to a point of actually sharing more deeper things. So rather, I think from, from what you're saying, I think rather, rather than the question, it's the relationship that may erupt that, that ability for the councillor to come up with something that's hidden right within that they don't, they wouldn't want to obviously share. And because when you keep doing that, as you keep reflecting and responding, you may get a sense. You know, from what they're saying, you may get a sense that there is something like this happening. And sometimes a direct question can bring it up. Okay, like when, when they feel that they can trust you, and then you may ask a direct question, I kind of sense that there is that that there may be certain abuse in your family. Is that so? Or, or even a direct question like, you know, would you like to share with me as to what happens at home? Are there times that they abuse? So, so depending on how that relationship follows, a direct question can sometimes bring about those answers itself. Yeah, like, you know, every counselling situation is unique. And I don't think there is one, you know, sure way that you can work through, through how councillors and councillors relate, you know, there's so many variables in it. But I think, nevertheless, it's always good to keep sharpening your skills, sharpening your relationship, your attributes, so that you make it most conducive for the counsellor who's there. Okay. And we'll keep exploring more, we'll keep practicing more. And let's, let's quickly close with a word of prayer. Let me, let me just close. Heavenly Father, we thank you for teaching us these, these things that are important in our buildings, building of relationships. Father, we pray that the Holy Spirit gives us discernment in dealing with people and their needs and their problems. Lord, even though we see a lot of this is skill based, Father, only you, only you can give us, Lord, position us rightly, give us the right questions, the right responses to, to help people. Holy Spirit, we pray that you continue teaching us and we continue, Lord, to working hard on getting some of these things learned and done well. Thank you, God. Be with each one of us this coming week. We ask all these things in your precious name. Amen. Amen. God bless. Thank you all. We meet you again next week. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Pastor. Thank you. Thank you, Ma'am. Thank you, Pastor.