 The science policy world is full of those sorts of conundrums. Me trying to explain to my parents that I want to major in science communication was also really hard. Okay, that's going to be a big one. That is a strength and having that diverse viewpoint is really important. Maybe you want to be the voice of reason when lots of people seem to have lots of strong opinions but it's not kind of clear what we should believe. Yeah, so I'd say it's a very exciting field to be thinking about working in. Hi, I'm Aisha and I'm in my third year of Chemistry, Science, Communication and Economics at the ANU. I really enjoy science policy and I hope to sort of work in that area one day. And hi, I'm Sujata Raman. I'm a professor at the Centre for the Public Awareness of Science, also known as C-PASS, at the ANU. So today I've been given the opportunity to interview Dr Raman who is in a way my future self and embodies a lot of what I hope to do one day. I'm very excited. At a dinner party, how do you explain what you do? Oh, yeah, that's the one. That's a much dreaded question, isn't it? Because at dinner parties you don't want to be talking about your work but people often don't know that there is even a field of science communication. I'd say, oh, I'm interested in the relationship between science and society, science and government. And yeah, kind of try and give examples, like, you know, big questions. Should we have genetically modified agriculture, for example? Or what should we do about climate change? And what kinds of evidence do we need to make a decision or make a recommendation about vaccines, for example? How would you see, I suppose, the relationship between science and policy? I don't know if that's an unfair question, but yeah. Well, I think that good science and good evidence is really important for making policy decisions, but I do, and I think coming from both having done a bit of science and a bit of economics, I do understand that all policy decisions come with a trade-off. Do you like your job? Absolutely. I mean, yeah, if I think back to what I thought I was getting into 30 years back or whenever it was, I embarked on this sort of academic career in this field. Yeah, I had no idea how things were going to turn out, but yeah, absolutely. I love my job. What did you want to do as a career when you were my age? Okay, well, yeah. Well, I wanted to be a lab scientist, I guess. Or field scientist, maybe? In physics? Yeah, in physics, yeah. Maybe theoretical, I can't... And what made you shift from that to...? I think partly. So at the time when I first discovered this field, this dates me definitely, but this is around the time that the Berlin Wall was coming, you know, came down, you know, end of the Cold War, and there was all this concern still about, okay, so what's the role of nuclear weapons? So I think I was very interested in the role of science in thinking about the future of nuclear weapons. I mean, they're still around, right? Like it's still, they haven't gone away. They're still a big issue. Yeah, still a big issue. So I did my master's thesis on that topic. As a woman of colour and as a woman of science, have you found it harder to make yourself heard? Probably. Yeah, you have to find ways to work around that, I suppose. Science communication more broadly, as you may have noticed, right? There are a lot of women. I think science policy is maybe a little bit different, probably still maybe more male dominated, but not entirely in the way that it might have been even when I was starting. So I think things are changing, but yeah, there's still always more, yeah, we can do more. And that's why I think, yeah, mentoring, you know, next generation, early career practitioners, researchers, that sort of thing is really important. I don't know, what do you feel? Do you feel it's from your experience as a student? Do you think it's going to be harder for you? I think definitely sometimes, like just, you know, when you're doing simple things, like you're talking or you're like with people, you can often feel like, you know, you look different, you sound different, you think about things slightly differently. I just think it's a recognition on both sides of like the thing that is a strength and having that diverse viewpoint is really important. And I think it'll take, I think, a bit more time for that mentality to sort of shift that way. Do you think it's important for young scientists to have strong opinions? Do you think it's more important for them to approach things more diplomatically? Yeah, I think, so that's interesting. So strong opinions about what depends, right? So maybe being in the science policy world for a while has taught me that some things are actually quite complex and it helps to have a measured voice. You know, your role is not necessarily to offer your opinion, but to help sort of say, okay, well look, there's this and there's that and helping to kind of make sense of that bigger picture. Depending on the context, there is a role for that. But yeah, when you're starting off, yeah, that's a good question. I guess you mean, like you mean in public, is what you mean? Yeah, like very publicly saying that this is how things should be, you know, doesn't make sense. Or is it better to sort of approach things more diplomatically, you know, talk to the right people and just try and not be very upfront about, like, this is what things should be. So maybe it's a classic academic thing, but you know, I'd say depending on the context, yeah, absolutely there's strong opinions being called for in certain contexts. But in some cases, I'd say maybe you want to be the voice of reason when lots of people seem to have lots of strong opinions, but it's not kind of clear what we should believe. How did you feel interviewing your future self supposedly mean? It was like very fascinating, like I think I learned so much and it was just so interesting to see how like there's, I guess, so much more out there and then like what you think and how there are so many more nuances to things than what you consider. And it's really exciting to hear about so much of the work that's been going and how like there's so much growth and there's so much potential in this area as well. It's really nice hearing that there have been success stories where like, you know, there are things that have changed, things that have worked out for the better. Absolutely. I mean, I really enjoyed being interviewed, having this conversation. But yeah, I think the future is bright in that regard for you. So yeah, look forward to following your progress.