 Welcome to another episode of in the zone. I of course am your host Chris Broussard We've got another dynamic show for you Our interview is with longtime Celtics play-by-play man Mike Gormy's been 37 years with the team He's got some fantastic stories for you about Larry Bird Paul Pierce all the way up to Kyrie Irving so a great listen. You definitely want to check it out We got my man Jason McIntyre here for another exciting fun even Comical episode of not down Jay, but of course we start things off as always with the top five Now talking to Mike Gorman made me think about hmm Who are the best Celtics the best five Celtics of all time and man like the Lakers? This is a tough one because it's such a wonderful Successful franchise full of championships full of Hall of Famer, so I left off some all-time grace Paul Pierce I'm sorry. I mean come on. It's the Celtics. I hate leaving y'all But who do I take off my top five Kevin? Mikhail one of the greatest power forwards of all time. He also did not make the list It was tough, but I had to go with that number five Dave Cowins people forget about Dave Cowins Dave Cowins was nice. He was an undersized center just six foot nine in a league of giants in the 70s But he was fantastic. This guy was rookie of the year. He was MVP one season He was all-star game MVP He led the Celtics along with John Havlicek to two titles in 1974 and 1976 and in 1974 he averaged 23 points and 10 rebounds Against Kareem Abdul-Jabbar as the Celtics beat the Bucks who also had Oscar Robertson though He was older in the finals they beat him in seven with Cowins leading the way 23 and 10 against Kareem Gotta give him number five just crazy Accomplishments at number four John Havlicek the Celtics all-time leading scored with more than 26,000 points, but he was more than a scorer. He also got it done on the defensive end He had endless amounts of energy played with incredible hustle and made eight Count them eight all defensive teams. There's something else about eight. He won eight Championships seems crazy today, but he was always holding up the championship trophy He averaged 20 points six rebounds five assists across his 16-year career a top 50 player of all-time Like everybody on this list John Havlicek number four at number three, you know the legend Bob Coosie Coosie was the league's first great point guard and Shobin that position has had tons of flashy players But Coosie was the first he was the first with the behind the back dribble the spin dribble the behind the Backpass the no-look pass Coosie was Dynamic as a player he averaged 18 points eight assists across his career led the NBA and assists eight straight season and won six Championships six that equals Michael Jordan at number two Larry Bird, of course in the 1980s He resurrected the NBA along with Magic Johnson he is one of the greatest shooters and Passers of all time. Here's how good bird was the year before he got there the Celtics won 29 games His rookie year they won 61 bird was absolutely phenomenal He's one of three players along with Wilts Chamberlain and Bill Russell to win three straight MVP awards he won three Championships and here's some players on the list of guys he beat in the NBA finals Magic Johnson Kareem Abdul-Jabbar Moses Malone Hakeem Elijah one Ralph Samson bird number two and at number one Bill Russell look this guy played 13 years in the NBA and won 11 Championships, I mean we can't even imagine Anybody doing that nowadays and for three years. He was the Celtics player coach and won two Championships in those years, and it's not like he wasn't playing against anybody Wilts Chamberlain Oscar Roberts and you asked some great players in that era, but Russell Dominated he only averaged 15 points a game So you don't hear a lot about him as being the greatest player of all time But when it came to Championships, he is the hands-down winner not only in basketball, but in all American sports Here's how respected Bill Russell was in 1961 62 that season Wilts Chamberlain averaged 50 points a game 26 almost 26 rebounds a game Oscar Roberts and average a triple double and Bill Russell was the MVP. That's crazy. That was one of five MVP awards He won same as Michael Jordan and one fewer than Kareem Abdul-Jabbar Bill Russell hands down the greatest Celtic of all time now. I got to say this I know you're gonna shoot at me for leaving off Paul Pierce. Maybe Kevin McHale. There was some tremendous Celtics I hate it to leave off, but it is what it is. It's a great franchise All right, we're back with another segment of knockdown Jay feeling all right man After last week's beating I know I mess with you a lot, you know, I knock down Jay I tease you all that stuff, but I respect your perseverance your determination Okay, you're stick to it if miss the fact that you're like the Wayne Wade in the old commercials You keep getting knocked down and you keep getting up. Hey, by the way, you know who else likes it the YouTube commenters out there I was telling the producer I read the comments. Yes, they're starting to swing to my side Chris Today, I wouldn't go right. Okay. They're starting not to dislike you as much as they used to Let's get started with this one Chris the all NBA teams were near in the end of the season and the center position looks locked Right Joelle and bead the power forward Anthony Davis the other forward LeBron the guard of injuries Yeah, the guard situation is up in the air. We know James Harden's got one guard position Which leaves I believe two people well Steph is Injuries, but I believe it's between Damian Lillard and Russell Westbrook I mean Damian Lillard's been off the hook. That's my pick for first team all NBA. I go Lillard over Westbrook I mean you got to start with third in the West. Okay 13 game winning streak now I believe they have the Rockets up next Lillard is a legitimate MVP candidate one of the most clutch players in the league I know his numbers aren't up significantly from last year, but in a loaded West Absolutely loaded. He has outperformed the Thunder significantly. Nobody had Portland ahead of okc at this stage in the game But in the preseason I go Damian Lillard over Russell Westbrook for the guard position all in the end Look Lillard has been phenomenal. I think I'm glad he's starting to get the love He deserves there a few years last few years. He didn't even make the all-star team Well, the West is so deep, but you know, he's having a phenomenal season and if He ends up being first team all NBA I'm not gonna be upset. I mean he's certainly deserving and playing You almost sound like you're gonna lean Westbrook, but well, I'm going Westbrook I mean what people don't understand is Westbrook is Essentially averaging another triple double. Okay, 25 points a game. That's one fewer than Lillard Ten assist a game. That's the best in the league. Pick all your past first point guards Pick all your great passing point guards James Harden LeBron's a wonderful passer Chris Paul, you know John Wall whoever you want to name Russell Westbrook is ahead of all of them in assist and he's four ahead of Lillard Lillard six and a half assist a game not that great. All right for a point guard Then Russ has given me 9.7 rebounds a game So if we could round up this dude is averaging another Triple double. We've got it's kind of like LeBron. We've gotten so used to LeBron's greatness that we just He had 37 and 7 again. Well, they take it Because at the end of the day they will both be in the same hall of fame and We'll see Russell Westbrook Russell Westbrook is averaging a triple double Essentially for the second straight year something we never thought we'd see anyone else do and Since you think Westbrook is nothing but a gunner a volume shooter. Guess what? He's shooting a higher percentage than Damien Lillard. Lillard is 44% from the floor Damien or Russell Westbrook is 45 What about from 3.5%? 3.5% is Chris. That's not the only shot. That doesn't matter. Okay. No, it matters But it's not the only shot. But just tell everybody what he is from deep. 28 percent. He's not a 3.5% Damien Lillard is 37. He's not a 3.5% You don't like him? The bet Simmons hasn't made a 3. That's not gonna go off. 3.5? I'm not just about the 3 because there's other parts of your game. But you're about the rebounds for Russell Westbrook. Yeah, of course. I don't want to interrupt you. It's a triple double. Beyond that Russell Westbrook since December. We know in the first month and a half of the season he was deferring to his new players Paul George Mellow he was giving them involved getting the ball in December. Everybody in OKC said Russ be Russ He started being Russ started averaging about a triple double and they have gone 35 and 17 That's a 55 win pace since then and there only a game and a half behind Portland There is time for them to catch the warrior or the Blazers and finish third in the West. Look, I love Lillard but without question Russell Westbrook is First team all NBA. It's not look Lillard. He's doing great in March, right 29 points Everybody's raving about what he's doing in in you right February was February 1st Anthony Davis is first in the league in scoring Damien Lillard is second Guess what Damien Lillard is shooting from the floor in March? Go ahead and tell me 40% Okay, Russell Westbrook is shooting over 50% that's great in March. So come on man. I slaughtered you I got the stats for you on clutch time, which is where Damien Lillard shows up. He's the most I would say Damien Lillard's the most clutch player in the league Okay, why would you say that rookie year final minute to tie or go ahead? Lillard has the most baskets in clutch time number one over LeBron over Russell Westbrook number one first of all That has had this year. This year. This is all NBA 2017-18. Okay. I don't want to hear about Five years Like that matter no, I was talking about this year when was the last time Russell Westbrook took a team In the playoffs and won by himself without any help. Well, he's only had one year Yeah, and what happened and bouncing the first round. What did Damien Lillard do? Oh, so CJ McCollum is He's a good player Stop that's disrespectful Okay I know that's what I'm saying Damien's doing it by himself when when he's got CJ McCollum there. So now we're disco. So Paul George is chopliver No, but you ask me you love to say as a hall of favor the thunder of a better roster No doubt your arguments are all over because I'm responding to your nonsense You asked me you asked me When was the last time Russell Westbrook went to the playoffs by himself and won a round He's only had one chance. Yes last year. So Paul George was not there last year. So now all of a sudden you threw George in it I'm not talking about what he had. He did not have the equivalent of a cj. McCollum last year fair enough That's totally fair. Who has a better roster this year. Okay, so you're portland Don't even say okay. See without question Stephen Adams is one of the best post players in the league Paul George Paul George is a superstar star Carmelo anthins the hall of famer Yes, but a old hall of fame portland does not have anything close to that portlands ahead in the standings because of damien lillard game set match Let's toss the game and a half. You want to you want to say anything else? No, I'm just saying as your game and a half the race is close Yeah, okay. Yeah, he doesn't have to say anything else because I got to go with bruce. I'm sorry numbers don't lie Look, no disrespect to video game day. He's phenomenal, but russ come on He just ended what he had his fifth consecutive triple double third such streak I mean, he's just going off and he uh ended the raptors 11 game win streak with absurd numbers and 68.2 percent shooting I believe it was my game So I rest my case Humble you all right All over fs1 it's you it's nick right tour everybody loves russo west He is we never did you ever think you would see a player average a triple double? I never thought of that I it doesn't oh you never thought of that. Do you watch basketball? I don't look at stat patterns like russo westbrook. I'm not uh, oh, we got a triple double. He's a stat pattern The proof is in the pudding last year. We saw it. We saw the videos Letting him get rebounds at foul shots Come on. We ran that video average a triple double and he's bounced in the first round He's basically doing it again. Lonzo ball shooting better than from deep Okay, then russo westbrook. That's all I gotta say. You got mad at me for putting westbrook in the same sense with Lebron and now you're putting Lonzo in the same sense with westbrook. I'm just saying three point shooting Are you saying Lonzo's better than westbrook? Yeah, that's what I know man. Come on move on. All right, let's get off a topic that you're not strong on Let's go to another one in the west chris. Okay. We got two teams suffering injuries Minnesota timber wolves lost jimmy butler. They were third in the west. They've fallen to eighth St. Antonio spurs have had kawai for nine games. They've fallen to I believe seventh in the west right now Six or seven felt like it. Well, we're at fifth, but it's by like half a game It's all so close, but they're fifth Okay, they are supposed to come back for the playoffs. Both of them jimmy butler wore his jersey this week on the bench under his Sport jacket. Why we know is kawai. I mean one network reported. He was going to be back last I mean, we still haven't even exactly Both players are supposed to come back for the playoffs. Who's more dangerous in the post season timber wolves with butler Spurs with kawai and i'm going to go with the timber wolves with jimmy butler Because when he was on the court, he was their clutch player. He was their best defender I know jeff teague missed a lot of time. But that team with wiggins towns butler teague jamal crawford off the bench They were gelling. They were third in the west The spurs. This is an old team From manu at 40 lamarcus is 32 playing out of his mind. He's he's 32 palga soul 37 Tony parker 35. This is an old roster. I don't see it with the spurs this year I think the wolves are more dangerous. They've been an old roster They were old when they ran circles around the miami heat in 2014 tim duncan was a shell of himself Manu was old then. Tony parker was old then. He was like 31. Yeah, but he had been in the leagues since he was 19 I mean 35 is different. There is look i minnesota jimmy butler has been great this year phenomenal Yeah, he's all nba level. We'll see. I mean it's tough. It's 15 players, but he's certainly been at that level no question But If you're asking me in the playoff Yes Who i'm going to take between a san antonio spurs team coach by gregg popovich and a young minnesota team I have to go with pop and the spurs five championships for pop. I love tibs. He's a great coach, but none for tibs um then They have virtually no Among their best players butler's got some playoff experience But not that deep playoff experience, correct Where then carl anthony towns and andrew wiggins. This will be their first trip to the playoffs I mean, do I have to even go through the do I have to even go through the list of champions on the spurs? I don't think so my point is they're two second their second third best players Have never even been in a playoffs. This will be their first trip to the playoffs The spurs. We know have a ton of experience They popovich had them They were the ones that were third in the west for most of the season Without kawaii Leonard with a roster full of People most people couldn't even name They were ahead of the timber wolves when butler was playing for them. Remember the spurs have been with they have a better record than minnesota They've been without kawaii for all but nine games. Yes the timber wolves have only been without butler for like A half But that's my my point is there's not going to be this whole new incorporation of butler because they played with him for 50 games kawaii Okay, you think it's going to be hard for them to work kawaii Marcus Aldridge is the number one option on that team this year when kawaii comes back. Who's the number one option? kawaii Leonard Exactly now he has he's gone the entire season not playing He's got a mess with the new point guard murray who hasn't he hasn't played a lot with this year nine games I just think it's going to be tough to jam it all together here's the playoffs when kawaii hasn't been there all year and hold on The cloud hovering over kawaii. Is he going to get the super max offer? Does he want to stay in san antonio beef with the organization? They're just about andrew wiggins andrew wiggins didn't raise a beat. He's not happy being the third option That that's a considerable hover that's gonna. But he can't do anything. He just got a huge contract He's got a huge contract. It does not hover You know what will hover even more the fact that minnesota Unbelievably, I never thought I'd say this about a time tibetho team doesn't play That that sickens me. They're 26th in the league in defense. Guess where the spurs are top 10 Top two. Yes. All right. What matters in the playoffs Defense. Yeah, the rockets found out last year the spurs will have the best player kawaii is better than butler The spurs. Oh, hold on. The spurs are the best player. They will have the best coach. They will have the best defense case Close. They will have the experience. That's a fair argument. I Disagree completely torii. Look I don't want you to take this personal, but the spurs are always old. They're always boring and they're always a problem Oh Do not disrespect torii born I only played 210 minutes this season. I get it, but he's that guy you put him back in pop in the post season I'm sorry. I got to go bruce hardigan. I actually think torii should be arguing these things. She'd give me better arguments than me There's no arguments. He's on your side. All right. Let's move on to another topic. I can win another topic I can win. Are you sure? This one's silly. Okay. We came up with this last minute. Perseverance determination We're getting more sick. We're just sitting here rapping and all of a sudden boussard says What's rather would what's roster would you rather have? 76ers or lakers and it took me what half a second lakers. I mean no doubt about it I mean, where do you want to start? They they've got Lonzo ball the point card of the future on the in the organization They got Brandon Ingram. I've got Ben Simmons. Yeah, but you you'll have your time patience. Okay. I mean you you really try Patience. Lonzo ball. I said because Lonzo ball past first point card who I love Brandon Ingram What is it 20 21 years old just scratching the surface cow kuzma absolute steal in the draft and then this is my favorite part, chris Magic and the lakers signed a bunch of one-year contracts brook lopez kcp. They don't have to stick around lakers have flexibility The question was roster right now That's what I didn't say with them right now, but that's what I love about flexibility Well, that's what you wanted to roster flexibility. You don't be hamstrung with bad They will but I've got Lonzo Ingram and kuzma. You've only got mbid and uh sarich and Simmons I love this lakers Look, I mean unless you're gonna talk about marquel folds. I can't wait for you to bring that guy. I am ready to say with absolute certainty, okay Let's hear it that if philadelphia's players and it goes the same thing for the lakers Let's say all these players philly and lakers stay healthy Ben Simmons love him and joel mb Will be all-time great. I don't doubt that that's not a there is not Now you got some you got some players on the lakers that are going to be good Lakers have 31 wins in the much better west. Let me finish versus 39 for philly Let's not act like the 76ers are world beaters here, okay? I like Simmons and mb. Well when mb 39 wins in the east mb missed 11 games They were three and how many games london missed how many games ingram missed like we can play When I'm saying when Ingram when when mb's healthy there on a 50 win page certainly, okay? Here's the thing Lonzo will he be an all-star? Maybe I mean, remember he's in the west I mean russia westbrook still relatively young damien lilor cj mccollom Stephon clay I mean, i'm just saying it's tough in the west. Lonzo's not playing well. He is shooting better I'm saying is he's not a guaranteed all-star let alone nobody's guaranteed all-time greatest Simmons and mb are going to be all-time greatest. Assuming health. Lonzo I don't I'm not willing to say he's definitely going to be an all-time great. No brandon ingram Definitely going to be an all-time great. No. No. Calcuzma. No, julius randall. No, there's not one player on that roster There's not one player on the lakers roster that you know is going to be an all-time great goes to your question The roster I look at it. That's what i'm saying. That guy ain't gonna be here next year That guy's not going to be here next year Flexibility Look, so, you know, no, no, you can't talk about the players you have right now. You guys just signed robert covington do a long Yeah, I love covington with these two. What number is he on the 6th roster? He's a 3 and d player Go down the 6th roster. Where is he? Tell me on the roster. What do you mean? And beat is 1 Simmons is 2 Who's 3? Is covington your third best player? Right now he has been He's better. I take you over there. Is he better than foals? What foals we haven't seen I would take cow kuzma over robert covington I would take Simmons and mb over london and big three. No big three. You got two to two You said roster You don't do a roster by That way who's a better team who fits better together? I like I like flexibility and youth. I didn't give joe I don't have flexibility. How much money how much money they gotta be money to offer lebron They got yeah one on one max. They only need one because i got two all-time greats in the future I don't need two max players potential all-time greats. You're talking about right now roster about potential now Yeah potential for the roster. They have flexibility. Look, I have got. What do you want? I have got I have got Uh the um the closest thing we've ever seen to magic johnson I would I would argue and then I've got the closest thing in the league right now To a kareem abdu jabar type dominant center There's no other I love. I'm not saying he's kareem. I'm just saying there is no other Dominant back to the basket center who can score on you put 40 on you if he wants to has that dog nasty mentality There's no other center like that in the mba Maybe carl anthony towns, but he's not as strong and big as mb this So now i've got the building box a great point guard and a great center Those are typically the building box. That was shack and kobe guard center That was the way in wait and shack guard center when you that was magic and kareem guard center You're talking about a bunch of guys who might make some all-star teams I'm talking about two dudes that could end up in the hall of fame fundamental difference when you when the question is Which roster would you rather have to me that question is you can be the gm Of one of these two teams you can take the roster that you want sixers or lakers I take lakers three really good young players josh hard on the side really nice randall's really nice And guess what I've got flexibility in the off season. You're talking roster to build out my roster No, you can't add two max guys. I don't need to I got joel mb. I got ben sims. I knew it Now don't forget need I don't want to I'm serious. I don't want two stars. You can't have but so many stars Yours needs to be a pecking order. I need one more player and he don't even have to be a star So he can be a great shoot. He can be a three and d guy So based on that you think joel and bead can lead the sixers as a best player to a title. Yes Okay, interesting. And who on the lakers roster can do it. Well, that's where the lakers rosters That's the beauty of it They have the room to bring in that guy see and I know you don't like that. You're about to get kicked off knock down I mean, that's the beauty of you know, you know, you know who else don't have how about sacramental That's a real beautiful roster. They've got because there's nobody on that team that can lead you to a champion How about phoenix nobody on that team that's leading now you just don't do respect to my man Check that bottle for uh, is that is that I mean, what do you you just said? That's the beauty of the roster You what if you don't get lebron and george didn't what you've got the cap room to chase someone else And you've got the three youthful building blocks three awesome players under 22 Tory, this is a no-brainer Maybe until you said that Tory tell me your kid. I just I hear the thing the lakers are banking on lebron They need And indeed they're having fun They're jiving their trust in the process the most impressive thing to me about the lakers roster roster as it stands right now Is julius randall out there looking like zebo? I don't think there's anything to get You gotta reassess on that so if you could be the gm today of the six But I thought we're talking about the roster as it is now that's not about what happens job is to shape the roster I just I think they have a brighter future. I think with the pieces you've gotten Yeah Again, let me go back to this 39 wins in the east and you've already got your two best players Simmons and imb 31 in the west and you don't have anything you just undressed the lakers roster said all that We don't know if they're all stars and they got 31 wins that roster to me with the cap flexibility is a no-brainer How are you not seeing this? This is a big this is a big hole I mean I can't get somebody else on here. I can't believe you guys see this We're gonna have to take this we're gonna do this again because this i'm gonna have to teach you This is a no-brainer to me Dallas mavericks young man stop talking stop talking That was it for knock down jay and we and in the zone in general, we hope you enjoyed it. I know you enjoyed that Great comic relief. We're like You know, but but look go to itunes apple podcast soundcloud Then go to the lakers roster and look at it and be like mac and tires. So right give us five stars Leave us a comment and we will see you next week. I can't believe I'm shocked All right, we're excited to have mic gorman joining us in the zone He is the play by play man for the Celtics and has been since 1981 that's 37 years for those who don't know the math We're very honored to have him. You can check him out on twitter at Celtics voice On twitter at Celtics voice, but mic, how you doing? Good Chris. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. No, no, we're we're glad to have you. Um, I just Got done rating my top five Celtics of all time. I'm gonna run the list by you and get your thoughts At number five. I've got dave cowans At four john havelichek three bob coosie two larry bird and one bill russell Uh, no argument, uh, as much as I love dave I might slide paul pierce and head head day, but I don't give you no idea Yeah, it was I mean, obviously, you know cowans with the two mv or with the mvp and the two rings You know, he had more accomplishments. Yeah, talk to me why you would You know, uh, put pierce ahead of him or just pierce in that top five and even like, you know It was robert perish who I think most of people believe was an overstatement saying that uh Pierce was the best offensive player the Celtics have ever had, but I think someone else said Uh, who was it a Celtics legend a few years ago said pierce is the best score Or in selts, Tommy high, Tommy That's what I thought he had said Yeah, Tommy said on numerous occasions that if he had the ball with Five seconds left in the game and could have it in the hands of one guy whoever was in Celtic He'd put it in paul pierce's hands. So are we underestimating pierce? I mean those of us who don't see him every night or talk to talk to me about that Yeah, I think I think people do underestimate paul paul is I had the pleasure of uh, he's my favorite Celtic of all time Because I got a chance to really do his whole career Back in the early part first 15 years or so that I did the Celtics during the 80s I only did the home games and then we'd go do the big east When the Celtics were on the road So I didn't really get to see some of the great Performances by that Celtic team on the road in the 80s However, I got to do paul pierce's whole career and I saw some Remarkable performances by him in times when the Celtics in the 90s were not a good basketball team But paul just went out there every night and was a warrior Uh, I couldn't event he was the guy I was happy as for when they won a championship because of all he had done But uh, I just I just think paul's career in total Puts him in the top five. He was just again a much better player than people gave him credit for I know when we put the other highlight reels for the retirement of his number Some of the dunks that paul threw down over the coast of his career He was just a much more athletic player than people realize a much bigger player than people realize One of those guys who when you saw him walking across the court because he was just so proportionately Built he didn't look that big but they're closely got to you the wider those shoulders got the bigger he got um, so Yeah, again, Dave's a good friend of mine and and Dave were in the room right now to be throwing bricks at me I was uh, I would slide paul into that fifth spot and come off the bench with Dave As you said you saw paul's whole career Talk about the growth you saw in him just as a person, you know from early in his career to Now he's going to be uh, if he already isn't an ambassador of the of the league Yeah It it was really great to watch because I saw a young man a kid come into the system and and leave a man And to watch that growth to see him go through some hard times to see him have some Make some personal mistakes Which paul would be the first one to admit along the line Of course with that stabbing incident in Boston that a lot of people remember paul You know put himself in the wrong place at the wrong time and would be the first one to admit that but to I had a chance to mc both a dinner for about a hundred people the night before we retired his number and then mc the actual ceremony On the court and to see paul with his with his kids now and his wife and and he's a father and he's uh You know christie, I wouldn't have thought paul was going to be a broadcaster I just didn't think he really necessarily had that in him But uh, he's really impressed me with what he's done. He's done a terrific job On espn with some of the work that he's doing and Yeah, I think paul you're right paul's going to become a very good ambassador for this league over the next 10 years Yeah, I thought he's I think he's done a great job on tv. I told him uh I said you used to get mad at the media for saying and writing stuff And now you're a part of it doing the same thing. That's right. I don't care what the players think I'm just going to say what I want to say That's right. What was What you see is what you get with paul. That's why I always like the bottom is right up front. He didn't he didn't hide anything Again, I think people are going to luring to like him in the coming years as a Spokesperson for the nba and as a broadcaster. What was your take? There was obviously some hubbub about the syrup the retirement ceremony for his jersey And ray island not being there and all that. What's your take on that whole situation? Well, I guess we're going to find out chris when the book comes out because that's that's what everybody's talking about now Yeah, I You know, that was a very interesting team, you know, kevin garnett was the dominant personality on that team and You know kevin kind of rules the roost And it was okay with some guys It wasn't as as okay with some of the other guys and ray was one of the guys who really had his own routine That he necessarily wanted to follow so You know the the real rift seems to be between rajah londo and ray at least the rajah has become a spokesperson for the other side But john I was in New Orleans the other night And john said that he may try to call ray on the phone and see if he can work this stuff out So I'd like to see it happen because you know, we're coming up on a 10-year anniversary of that team And it would be a shame if you couldn't have all three of those guys together Oh for those guys counting rajah And any kind of you know, ceremonial thing that you would do Uh, I'd hate to see some petty stuff Mess that up because that was there that was a really fun team to do and that was uh That was the highlight of my broadcasting career was just doing that that season with those guys They were they just were so much fun to be around. So that was your favorite team So without question. Yeah, you better get big again chris because you know I might have been one of the calari bird teams if I had traveled with them. But as you know, uh, you get to know guys And you get to make friends establish relationships with guys on the road You don't necessarily do it at home when you're doing home games Everybody's coming from their home and as soon as the game's over they're kind of anxious to get back to their home Um, whereas when you're on the road You get non-bustly as you're checking in the hotels at three or four o'clock in the morning You're scraping snow off your car against the man for his pace at three a.m Um, you get to know people a lot better than so I was doing all of South Dakota games when the championship 2018 rolled around and uh You know, I like to remember dany age, you know, not that dany run things by me But I remember dany and I was somewhere and dany said mike if you had a chance to uh, get kevin garnett Would you give up about jefferson to which I said no Really? That was the last time denny consulted me That's a great story. I I I felt like that 2018 I thought that was an outstanding team. Um, I think that was I I actually feel like It's unfortunate that they didn't win more than one championship because I really think they were that good I thought they should have got at least two and it and and you know the injuries It was what injuries the garnet and then they traded perk and so Some of it was out of their hands, but what's your thought on that is on that team? How good they were I agree. I think the perk didn't get hurt. We would have won two championships. Yep And uh, the thing I loved about that team most chris was was uh Two things one you and I saw it before anybody else because When we saw them play in london in the preseason that year And and we saw what kevin garnett was going to do in terms of energizing this group I think all of us walked out of that first preseason game in london going Like yeah, I know this is the preseason, but wow these guys could be special to think play like this every night And they did and the the thing is in traveling with them is I loved about them as they They love playing on the road as much more than they love playing at home They wanted to go into your building and beat you up Um, and they they came in with that kind of attitude every night. Uh, they were a great road team Um, and they were they were just fun to be around, you know, it was uh I I felt that year like I was the kid in that movie almost famous, you know I was kind of a lot. I was along for the ride What was I'm sure you got some great garnet stories about his intensity I heard one that when he he had left boston and was playing for the nets And he was sitting out of practice Because I don't know if he was injured a little bit or they just wanted to give him a rest But he was they were scrimmaging in practice And they wouldn't let him scrimmage because they just wanted to arrest him. So he is Literally as the team scrimmaging They said he was running up and down the sidelines with the flow of the action Yelling stuff, you know encouragement what to do just basically coaching the guys and encouraging them Throughout the scrimmage and running up and down the court Did you see that type of intensity? And do you have any stories kind of that show how intense and how great of a leader garnet was? Well, he was he was a great leader. He was the best and you know, this is hard to say My guy who did most of Larry verge career, if not all Larry verge career broadcasting I think Kevin was probably the best teammate that I've ever seen A team have I mean he he just organized everything He did tend to micro manage a little bit, but that's that's kind of how he was He was probably told your way to sit in the plane what what you're supposed to do what you weren't supposed to do But again as a teammate, he was a great teammate and was on the court and When I say on the court, I'm not even talking about just simply the game I'm talking about the whole the practice the day of the game that he just As soon as he got on the plane He was he was kevin garnet and this was kevin garnets bunch And uh, you remember when he was doing the press conferences early on when he first came to boston Um, he insisted that ray and paul always be on the uh podium with him. Yep So it was always the three of them, you know, it was uh, it was like watching the godfather all over again These were the three sons that were up there and red was the godfather and uh, these were the guys who were gonna win the championships for them And they and they did and they should have not should have but they could have went to i'm convinced of perk It never got hurt. They would have won a second championship and uh, That that was again the most I won't say the most fun team I've been around because that would sound like I participated In stuff with them off the court and I really didn't do that But in terms of once you walked into the arena, uh, you know When you're the when you're the play by play guy for for an mba team you you do feel like you're part of the team Yeah, uh, and when you're going through a stress like we went through in the 90s Um, that was a tough job because you were getting your ass handed to you every night But it became a lot different when kevin showed up And we were the ones who were handed out the punishment That was a lot that after a lot of years in the 90s that was that was really a lot of a lot of fun This is a tough question. But can you compare that o8 seltsic's team to Some of those great burr mackayl parish teams? Well, you know, it's funny all the good things I just said if they played each other in the series I'd probably take the burr mackayl parish group to win the series. Uh, I think it would be stretched out But I think they would win the series. Um You know chris, you and I it was such a different game that you know the basketball has really changed a lot in the last 20 years And uh, you know, robert parish. I don't know if robert parish plays a whole lot today the way robert played Because of the way the game has changed kevin mackayl would have to become a three point shooter To to be a factor in today's game. So I guess it depends upon whether you allow hand checking And whether how much how much the three point line is a factor in the game But uh, I would I would give an edge to the to the burr team simply because I mean larry was I forget sometimes how good larry was and I and I flip on some of these old shows highlight shows again And I realized while they They're on many if any guys who are doing what he's doing today And play the game is completely as he played it and to be surrounded by what three four other hall of famers Uh, that's as good as the oa team was those are credentials. They can't really match Yeah, I hear, you know, especially younger guys, um You know, they'll hear about larry bird or look at some of the highlights and think oh He couldn't play he couldn't do that today because of the athleticism or whatever And I'm like first of all guys were athletic back then too And secondly, he wouldn't be able to get it done. I mean he was so great Seeing it up close Where you did you ever marvel about a guy that you know, didn't have the great speed or jumping ability But how he was just obviously just incredible and was able to Play better than these guys who might have been a lot more athletic Yeah, you know, nobody worked like he did, you know, I can remember very clearly Uh, we started the game time would be like 7 30 in boston and about 4 30 in the afternoon I'd show up at the old boston garden and they they used to you remember the old boston garden Chris because of the the circus they used to have ramps It was the stairways that you went up to get in and it was all these ramps You walked up and down so they could get the elephant sword And I can remember I'd be walking up that ramp and I hear I gave a ball hitting the court And it knew the noise would get louder and louder the closer I got to the court By the time I get in it again about 4 33 hours before the game There was larry out there with with corky who used to be his guy on the team On the training staff and he was out there shooting and he was very much like Like like kairi I watch kairi do warm-ups and kairi Does these funny little bank shots and throws up these little left-handed things when he's working out And that's the same way larry was larry worked on What I would call funny looking shots and then all of a sudden when the opportunity presented itself in the game You go, oh my god, that's the shot he was practicing three hours ago when I walked in here And but instead he's doing it in the face of somebody throwing up a left hand or high off the glass for two so Um larry larry could play at any game anywhere in any era and be If not the best One of the best players on the court one of the top two players on the court He he just had an understanding of the game that was beyond everybody else Who played it? He he didn't go he wasn't big on handshaking with other guys He wasn't big on greeting hugging guys on the opposite team He came out and he did his job and he You know, I know this sounds kind of obvious, but he as soon as he stepped across the line He was playing the game You know, I did he wasn't waiting for the whistle to be blown to play the game As soon as he stepped across the line on the court, he was playing the game And that's why he was able to do some things to guys That other people couldn't and I'll I'll always have that image in my mind of the guys on the atlantic bench tonight The larry scored 60 The guys in the atlantic bench were literally high-fiving themselves on birds baskets Because he's put he put on he put on such a show he watched the end of the game And the guys he he had a three from in front of the atlantic bench and the entire atlantic bench just collapsed He just collapsed himself down because And the great story about that was that nine days previously kevin mcale had scored 56 against Kent Benson and I think was playing for detroit at the time and that was the south x all-time record And and bird said to him after the game. He said enjoy it because I'm going to go get 60 in the next week or two here and And it got 69 days nine days later scored 60 against atlanta to break kevin's record And to this day larry would tell you he said I told kevin you should you should have gone for like 65 or so Because like as soon as you said it I was like oh, I'm not letting him have the back Let me have it had up a nine days. That was it. Wow. What what was their relationship like mcale and burr when they were playing? They were a great bunch, you know, I did do I did do some traveling with them and again that was That was before the days of the charter so You know that that's really a grind because you would play a game in richfield, ohio somewhere the old richfield carlisam And you would go back to a hotel and stay overnight and get up to the wake up car Would be like four or five in the morning because the nba rule was you had to be on the first plane How to your next destination to play the game the following night And you'd get on a seven o'clock plane and get to chicago's like 9 30 10 in the morning And and take a bus to the hotel and get out and play again That was a grind that was really a grind and those guys you had to have a sense of humor and you had a To happen. It's obvious you to have a routine Again, these are the pre security days So the the guys in the media in the local city that we were going to When you walked off the plane, they were literally standing right there at the end of the uh the Passageway looking to do with you. So the topics used to sell send ml car off the plane first And and ml used to go out and greet everybody. Hey guys, how are you come on? What do you need to know and then all of a sudden like larry and kevin and chief would like slink behind them You try to get by get by the gauntlet while ml who was uh very good at that was able to track their attention But yeah, they were they were a good group gany was it was a part of that team Um, Dennis johnson god bless the soul was it was a really good Solid player for that pass the ball team. I mean that they had quality at every position and uh and had arguably along with magic or poise Uh One of the three best players in the game Uh, this was actually before michael james. So one of the two best players the game magic and larry was special They saved the mba. A lot of people think yeah What obviously it was bird's team, but what kind of leader was he? I don't I don't think he was like that much of a vocal leader. What kind of leader was he? No, he wasn't He led by example He just he led by example He set a stand in both in practice and in games and playing hard and and and playing the right way Uh, he reminds me it's interesting. They're both in the same neck of the woods Uh, you hear here brad seaman say that all the time like, you know Make the right play make the right basketball play. That's all I'm really asking you to do and uh, You watch brad and sometimes when the ball is moving around the court Two passes before the shot is actually made you'll see brad clapping his hands because because the The guys are doing it the way it should be done. That's the way larry was larry understood the game and wanted to play the way it should be done And eight just got everybody else to follow his suit Again, he was a remarkable player to watch night in night out With the things that he would do it again He you see him out there at four thirty in the afternoon and he's throwing up left-handed hooks from you know 13 14 feet to the left side of the basket you're going why you're practicing that and then All of a sudden he gets double team and he spins out of the double team late in the game And it's suddenly that left-handed hook. He's going in the basket. You're going, oh, okay 430 this afternoon 430 this afternoon when you figured out I'm going to need this shot against these guys because they do this or that He was just again I know it's a it's a cliche but most of the guys are playing checkers. He was playing chess. Yeah when he played He of course had that famous quote about jordan. I think it was after jordan scored 63 on him in the playoffs and he said It was god disguised as michael jordan What was your impression When you first saw michael jordan It was that game. Yo, you did that. Okay Yeah, what what was your impression not not just from that game, but when you first saw jordan Come into the league like was it kind of did you feel like it was something you had never seen? before Yeah, I was I was actually surprised how good he was because again, he was kind of Restrained for lack of a better way to put it in north caroline system So, I mean he was a very good player at north caroline. They'll get me wrong But I didn't think he was going to be michael jordan when he when he came into the league But uh, yeah, he he right away. You knew he was He was You said earlier and I agree with you that the the guys back in those days were athletes and they were But but michael was much more today's athlete. Yeah, uh, he was he was he was special physically the things he was able to do the You know the great players chris. I'm not telling you anything. You don't know the great players Slow the game down. They make the game play at their pace You know the game can be playing at any pace at all But then the ball hits lebron's hands the ball hits larry's hands the ball hits michael's hands And all of a sudden it's like everything comes to an instant stop and then proceeds at the pace. They wanted to go at and You know that that's the way larry was that's the kind of teammate he was that's the way he he led by example and You know, they were they were just a good bunch around kevin was the intellectual the group kevin Okay, it was a guy who read the books on the plane Um You know, that was another thing too chris. I'm getting off the subject here That was another thing that was fascinating in those days is sometimes we'd fly on planes where there were only six or eight first five seats So, um, you you haven't seen anything because you're seeing like robert carish in the middle seat and coach Now I heard that they determined it was it seniority Determined who got in the first class. It wasn't like who's the better players necessarily Uh it was kind of like larry got there and um Then everybody kind of followed you that was the way it was with kevin although we were flying in the charter in those days You know, uh, larry got to sit where larry wanted larry was always first class Yeah, larry was always yeah larry was always first class the coaches sometimes get kicked out of this class In fact, most of the time they kicked out of first class, but uh, I remember very distinctly with fly there. It was like an eighth 15 seater somewhere on going from new walkie to chicago or something like that. Uh, I'll just remember seeing robert carish sitting in the middle seat and coached It was two people who were just your ordinary businessman or whatever next to him Um, and on either side of them they just they didn't know what to think That's incredible. I mean we can't even fathom that today with these guys flying charter and you know what I mean It's um, it's a totally different life. Totally different But it it it's a totally different life But it's not a whole lot easier I mean the road is still really a grind and and it wears on people after a while And it wears on the level of play because We're going out on a road trip on thursday where we Going to portland, which is not a place you really want to be want to go right now the way they're playing And then we have then we go to sacramento and phoenix and utah three There are four games. I think in six nights and you know how utah is playing right now You know how portland's playing right now. That's going to be a difficult trip with all the injuries that the southeast have right now So yeah, the travel the travel can be a real grind, uh, even though People on the outside say, oh, you have this wonderful world at charter and stuff like that It's still no fun getting on a bus in the middle of the snowstorm in chicago at three a.m. Of the morning That's no that's not any fun at all. Yeah. Yeah um Speaking of this this current Celtics team Obviously, you know, lebron james has ruled the east for what seven straight years And a lot of people just feel like, you know, you give him the benefit of the doubt They're going to win the east I you say back in november, you know, this cast team will not Uh, even make the eastern conference finals. Obviously they've had some trade since then Where do you stand on that now? What's your kind of thoughts on the eastern conference playoffs and how they could play out? I think it's going to be a struggle for cleveland to get there. I still do Um, I wish we were healthier if we get end up getting cleveland in the second round Uh, if we get to the second round right now, we're not very healthy at all. So, um But I I still think cleveland's got their work cut out to themselves to get to the eastern conference finals I I think toronto is for real Um, I don't think this is the you know, people say, uh, toronto's done like this before and then they fade in the playoffs This is a different team Uh, it's still lauri and still derosin, but they got a lot of other people who can play Uh and play hard Casey's doing a great coaching job up there So I think toronto's going to be a very good show and it can beat houston. They can beat very good teams um I think toronto's the odds on favorite to get to the eastern conference Finals and probably to get to represent the east and uh the championship finals, but um There are some other teams that are going to be tough outs I think philadelphia is going to be a tough out come to playoffs when it can be can play every night with a day off in between Um, I think phil I think indianapolis, indiana rather is better than people think oladipo is having a great year Um, the day at nate mcvillain center a really good job for that team. I think they're going to be a tough out Um, I Milwaukee. I know it's struggling right now, but you still got Uh, the greek freak to deal with and you know, he can he can turn the game around all by himself So I just think the eastern conference playoffs are going to be much more competitive Then uh, then people think and I think cleveland. I'm not saying they won't get there I I do like the trade. They got kevin love back last night and that certainly helped um, I I still maintain the bronze the best player in the league. Um, and so He's going to be very difficult to out right now the way he's playing. He's got to put triples doubles up He's getting ready for his playoff run. He looks like he's in just great shape. He doesn't look more known at all from the season um And I think he's continues to make a statement that he's Maybe the best player of all time, which I get a lot of grief here in the city of boston But he's the best player I've ever seen. I know that Yeah, yeah, he uh, he's It's amazing his longevity too the way he's been able to To keep up the way he's playing um Do you mention the injuries with the seltsics earlier? um Do you think there's I mean, I know Danny or brad brad stevens. I think said that gordon hayward will not be back this season What's your do you think he might or you what do you think about that? Yeah, I'm not in a lot of trouble around the city of boston on that one. Um Yeah, people I think he might be back and here's why I think he might be Because he's working very very hard right now. He's working eight nine hours a day people tell me all the time He's trying to get through as as all those stages He has to go through and they're mapped out recovery process as quickly as he can if if gordon Didn't think in the back of his mind. I can still play this year If he thought his next basketball game was going to be next october um, I don't think you would see I won't say the effort because it's simple for the effort But I don't think you would see the dead degree of dedication and is working out If he didn't believe in a similar in his heart of hearts that I can come back and help this team this year. So um You know as much as brad looks at me like why you're saying stuff like that I'm just saying I I have no information here. I'm not talking to gordon on the slide I'm not getting stuff through the medical. I'm just saying I'm watching from the outside I'm seeing a guy who's just working his tail off eight to ten hours a day to get back and I think I see him walking around. He seems to be moving very well. I know he's not doing a lot of serious running and basketball stuff right now But if he walked into a room right now, you would say you wouldn't say that guy's got any issues at all so I just I think there's a chance especially if the south east can get through the first round of the playoffs Which I think it's going to be a struggle I think there's a chance we might see him. I'm not saying we're gonna see him. I think there's a chance you might say Danny would tell me I'm crazy Coach looks at me and just shakes his head But um, I just I just think there's a chance How far do you think this Celtics team can go this year? I mean with I guess with hayward without him, whatever, but you know I I think brad is going to be tested Um Severely in terms of his coaching, which I think he will respond very well because I think he's a brilliant coach I think he's the harry potter of the nba as far as coaching goes um, but marcus mark Hit the loss of marcus mark really hurts us Marcus brings a toughness and the determination to the game when he's in it It is contagious and when he's not on the court to be that leader It's extremely hard to replace him He he makes one two three plays a week that just Turn your head. They don't show up in any column in the box or if he's slipping the screen It's it's it's go it's diving for a loose ball and instead of calling time out Which is 90% of the guys in the league do when they dive for a loose ball If they get the hands on it marcus is looking to make a pass from a lying down position And it's very successful at doing it Um Again, I think he's a key part of our team that we're missing and that's going to be a real problem Come playoff time, you know, the Celtics right now You could make an argument that the go-to guy is uh, it's jason tater Uh, we just turned 20 years old and it's in his rookie season um Jaylen brown going down with the concussion. He hasn't come back from that yet And here he's doing well in the nba protocol, but that's taken him a while to get back You don't know how he's going to react to that long term um I think a lot of negative things have happened for the Celtics of late If I had talked to you a month ago, I would have told you I thought they're an eastern conference finals team And in the hunt to go with the nba files now getting through that second round is going to be very difficult this there's no hayward and there's no marcus smart and uh Jaylen brown's not playing up to 100% And you know the people would have thought you really were on drugs I told you that if daniel tice not being in the lineup, it's going to be a blow for the Celtics But uh, daniel daniel tice turned out to be a very good player for our southeast bench Uh, and gave a size gave us some of that toughness. I was talking about that marcus springs Uh, and we miss him. We miss him a lot. Uh, so I think we're on demand going into the playoffs You know the we can't complain about that because when you look around the league so many big-time players right now Is who and I speak are injured And it could really affect the uh, both the western conference and the eastern conference, but uh, what would look to me like a A very doable road to the eastern conference finals for the Celtics now Is going to be a real challenge for them, especially if they get into the second round You mentioned some of the young talent Jaylen brown jason tatum. Obviously. Hey, we're coming back at some point. If not this year next year Do you think this is the core kairi Irving? Obviously of A championship team. I mean you you've covered the league so long. You know what a championship team looks like You think they have that core now? Or does dany need to use some of his other at the assets that he has to you know, make it even better Well, um I think they do have the core to win it right now I think if you have any chance to get anthony davis you Completely reevaluate your thinking as to who your core is because if suddenly anthony davis can become part of your core You're going to have to give up a lot. You're going to have to Consider giving up the browns and the tatums of the world. Um, but but that said if you can't get an anthony davis I think the south it's a very comfortable going to battle with a healthy group They have right now and and they still got a bunch of number one draft picks piled up here if they can use So, yeah, I think they do have the base in place to be a very good team for the next four or five years But again shows you what injuries can do injuries can really wreak havoc on a team and make you second guess the approach That you're taking I think the south it's a pretty firm and and what they want to do Again, I think if they thought they had a chance to get anthony davis I think they were right in that discussion but uh You could probably forget counting on one hand you they count on two or three fingers the number of guys. They're willing to Radically change their current plan to get anthony davis would be one. I'm not even sure who the others would be But uh, I was anthony is just so fresh in my mind because he torched us for 45 in Boston and torched us again Torched us again the other night in New Orleans and you know, he's another one of those guys You know the brawn is like that Chris we're privileged and lucky that we get to get really good seats So we really get to see these guys close up and and if you can see when a LeBron or an athlete davis is on the floor They're just going to dominate the game and and Kevin Durant is on the floor You they're just they're going to dominate the game and they're going to play the game the way they want to play it And there's really not much you can do about um But again as size and guys like that like LeBron and and Durant and davis Otherwise, I think the salty state puts what they have and feel pretty good about it. How special Do you feel like kairi Irving is? I mean, is there anything you've seen that surprised you about him? He's he's a special offensive player. He's gifted an offensive player as I think I've ever seen Because he has that ridiculous handle They can get into places and again, I watch him. I watch him work out. I'm fascinated by his pregame workouts about two hours Now before people are in the building The stuff he practices he practices those little floaters and flip shots and Stands out there and is taking left-handed shots Go off the corner of the glass that you wonder when you're going to use that and there's very much like I was talking about Burr and earlier you all of a sudden in the game there it is and he's using it So he's he's a gifted offensive player. I'm I'm concerned about the nagging problems. He seems to be having with his knee Uh, but Kairi can take you a long way. There's no question about that and if he's healthy He's shown that in big moments. He's he's more than willing to not only take the shots but make the shots So, um, you throw in Tatum. You throw in brown. You throw in Hayward You throw in Al Horford, who I think is an underrated player and people get on his case around here in bosson Because I think he's supposed to get 25 points in 18 rebounds game. That's not who he is But but who he is is a very very good A teammate but very very good player who if you run the ball through him, he will make the right quote basketball decision 99 percent of the time So yeah, I think the Celtics feel like they have the pieces that they need to win and You know, it's obviously a shame what happened to Gordon But if Gordon comes back at 100 and the bronze a year older next year Uh, it's Celtics and geological. So we'll we'll be the two teams if people talk about these I'm going to take you on a trip down memory lane Send it in Jerome I think I did a terrible bill raftery Impression, but you were calling that game with him when Jerome Lane broke the backboard What are your memories from from that moment? My first memory from that moment was it was like those old snickers commercials. We're going to be here a while Because um, you know People didn't have extra backwards floating around thinking if we allow us to throw up like So that was my first that we had that Johnny Nelson Came over and talked to that's for like 35 minutes to fill time I The big East was a really great experience to me. I mean I feel like arguably I had as good a job Uh as anybody in basketball through the the 80s and 90s because I would I would do the Celtics In the 80s, I would do the Celtics on three nights a week where they never lost at home And and larry was putting on shows every single night And then when the south is people on the road, I'd go do syracuse at georgetown or St. John's and and and and Seaton Hall and Madison Square Garden in front of 20,000 people I could remember going to keep doing georgetown and syracuse where there's what 28,000 people in the carry adobe so um I was I was really There was a period there christ where I was doing Sometimes eight games a week because I had to do two games on sadly I do a big east regional games at noontime And then I'd drive to like Seaton Hall of St. John's or some places and do it game that on saturday night I come back and do the Celtics on sunday But you never got tired of it And and even again the great moments like your own lane break in the park board But I can remember the big east tournament through a wonderful wonderful moments there It was it was a great basketball life. I had gone through myself There's again, I saw that I saw the big east one of the times absolute peak and and saw the Celtics when they were at their peak so You know people think you're a good broadcast if your team wins games I think you're a bad broadcast if your team loses games. So I was great. I was a great broadcast Oh, that's great stuff. That's great stuff. Um one last thing my producer is a huge Celtics fan He's probably the biggest Al Horford fan on the planet um, but he put together five Tommy Heinzen related rapid fire questions Uh, that I there they're specifically geared geared for lifelong Celtics fans. So I want to hit you with those real quick Fire away. All right. What's the angriest you've ever seen Tommy Heinzen at officials? We had this uh, this Tommy was probably this is probably 15 years ago. Tommy's uh, 82 I think right now 83 So Tommy was in his late 60s, maybe 70 Uh, I forget who the official was but Tommy went after him in the corridor after the game Uh, and we had we had to separate them physically separate them And and you know, you haven't seen anything for you seem like a six eight 70 year old guy taken on a 55 year old guy. He's not in great shape So that was That was really something because I Actually got to the official Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, we're we're walking down the corridor after the game and uh, the official was was coming out of uh Had you know changed clothes and showered and was about to leave and he was coming out And you know in the garden, it's all down that corridor the officials room that the team room the media room They're all off the mon cart of it and the guy comes out the door and Tommy said something to him The guy said something back and next thing I know Tommy's going over me after And uh, they had to physically get the cops and they were separating It was a scene That would be but what Tommy does Which is he he bates the officials and he he waits until the official is running by our broadcast position Uh and gets close and that's when he goes off on some of his rants It's to make sure that the guy can hear it on the way on the way by But but a lot of the guys can Kenny, my old Tony brothers They they have figured it out and and the way to figure it out is come over and pay the guy a little respect I mean he is a guy who won eight championships. I think as a player and two more as a coach Um, he does know what he's talking about. Yeah, they might not like what he says He does know it's talking that's a long answer to a rapid fire question. No, but that's that's great. That's great All right, so besides walter mccarty, who is Tommy's favorite player of all time? Paul pierce Pierce, okay. There's a quick answer for him. Yeah, Paul pierce. See the Tommy's the one who said this again to Uh, considering Larry and the people that have played for the southeast of the years John Halichuck you can go on and on Uh to say like a five seconds to go in the game Who's who's who would you put the ball give the ball to to win the game? Without just hesitation Tommy says Paul pierce Wow, wouldn't what would your answer to that be? Paul pierce really over birds. Yeah Yeah, because yeah, um, yeah Yeah I kind of think of why Because Larry can continue to do most of the same things but but paul paul is an excellent free-flow shooter Had added brilliant in between game of 15 to 18 feet For pull-up jump shots and could shoot threes Um, so he was he was really a triple truck that way and he and he could take it to the basket Probably that's where he had an edge on larry and he could take it to the basket with real physical authority Uh, so, uh, yeah, I would all do respect to larry. I would give the ball to paul and take my chances Wow What was your reaction when Tommy made the greg steamsma bill russell comparison? Oh You just heard it Yeah, um, yeah, I just I I tried to laugh off camera. Uh, I sometimes uh There's a lot of things with tommy that i've done where I When tommy says something that it's just completely off the wall Or or goes after the officials in a way that I prefer not to be included I just do a silent can count in my head before I say anything because I'm just going like they're gonna have to struggle to find me on this tape All right explain now tommy he he gave your career a big boost because he went to bat for you to call Celtics games Yeah, that's true tommy. Um, I was in providence ron island doing Six and 11 o'clock newscasts at the sports guy and part of the deal that that the local station channel 12 At the time the province had the province college was that they had five games a year that they were they were televised locally and um When I got the job as a monday to friday guy along with the king's job is to play by play guys with five games and we're in a meeting one day and Uh, they said well, we got to try to find somebody to do color in the name and all these obscure lex province college players And I said, why don't we just get tommy heisen and they said oh tommy heisen will never want to do the game And I said, well, let's give it a shot and chris This is a good case in you and I fully appreciate it as to how things have changed I called the boston garden and got the switchboard and I said, uh Share in the south east office, please And somebody takes the phone says good morning boston seldox and I said, yeah, uh, can I get tommy heisen's phone number? And the person goes, sure just a moment and gives me his phone number So then I called tommy at home And identified myself in I've never met. I said tommy. I'm working in prominent short island. They could find PC games. I need a color guy for you interested. He goes, absolutely So that's that's how I going on 42 year relationship. Wow started now. Wow. Wow last one It's a bonus one. Do you remember calling bonzy wells a budget paul pierce years ago? No, really, please erase that tape That was from the producer. So, uh, we'll do our best to find any Well, Mike, it's been great. We appreciate your time. Um, outstanding interview and and Keep doing a great job with the uh seldox. Um, you're going to be doing this for a long lot longer. I imagine I got I got no future plans that don't include that chris. Great. Great. Great. That's good for all of us. So Thanks a lot, man. And uh, I'll see you down the road in the playoffs Great talk to you chris. All right, Mike. See you