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Actually this is the first time we're talking kung baga face-to-face after all these years. Ongay, ongay. So could you just explain to the audience basically what Paynamics does, what service do you provide? Simpliput, we provide electronic payment solutions or enable companies to be able to accept different modes of payments from credit cards, debit cards, mobile wallets, Yes, grab pay for example, we chat alipay, we have over the counter channels meaning your customers can pay through 7-11 or pawn shops and even installment payments and online banking for that matter. So we simplify the connectivity and the access points for your business. So our clients are small, medium and large enterprises. So they either have a website where they integrate the payment gateway and start accepting the different modes of payments that I mentioned or they may not have a website but they can create payment links that they can send to the customers for the customers to make the payment using those payment options. Yeah and then I will wear one of the small businesses but I know based on your roster or just you know interacting with different companies. You have several big companies using your services. Actually just a sideline, is it harder to do CS for those guys? Imagine they have hundreds or thousands of transactions per day. Med, is it harder to deal with the CS when you're dealing with big companies kasi andami nilang demands or medyo nagsescale naman yung CS ninyo for the needs? Yes, actually we invested a lot in our customer support or we call them actually merchant support because we provide support, 24-7 support to the businesses that we service. So of course if we are dealing with airlines, we have to provide 24-7 support. I would say we are scaling our customer support to be able to provide fast responses to the tickets that were lodged to us. So the good thing about us is we have a ticketing system that our customers or merchants can lodge their payment related concerns. And then I would say pareho lang whether small or large enterprises the level of service that we give actually, we make sure that they receive the responses on time. So that's 48 hours the latest yung commitment ng company to provide responses to the tickets lodged to us. So yeah, we invest heavily in our customer support because user experience is really important to us. Could you walk us through like, I'm a merchant, so like I'm a small business, I have my own website but I don't want to integrate with it say Shopify or something, I'm gonna do it on my own then. Could you walk me through like, I want to tatangga pa ako ng credit card online and yung customer ko may credit card, candy for example, like I want to buy a bag of candy. So parang let's do it by kumbaga illustration via the transaction. So the customer, we set up with Paynamics so everything is integrated to site and then the customer inputs his credit card details and then where does that information go and where does Paynamics fit in? Okay, so the Paynamics access to payment deeply. So for example, you have a website right and that's where you integrate Paynamics. So we usually provide our application programming interface manual for you to be able to connect your website to our payment gateway. So on the customer journey, when the customer checks out and selects their preferred payment option, in this case credit card, so it's, they are redirected to the Paynamics page and they enter their card number, expiry, CVV, so that's where we come in and then we process the transactions and obtain the approval all the way to the issuing bank. So the issuing bank is the one who issued the card of the customer so it could be say for example BDO or HSBC or BPI for that matter and they are the ones responsible for giving the OTP. Are you familiar with OTP? So one time transferred, yes. It's a two factor authentication para they are sure that the ones transacting are really the ones who own the card. And then once the issuing bank for example approves the transaction, it goes back to the acquiring bank and the acquiring bank goes back to Paynamics and then Paynamics will post back the transaction result to the merchant's website so if it's either successful or failed. So you would know if the transaction is successful once we post it back to the website of the merchant and at the same time customer sees it on the screen whatever the transaction result is if it's failed or successful and they will receive a payment notification on the transaction status. So it's like the payment interface between the seller and then the banks para ganoon? Yes, yes, yes. So on our end for example since we support multitude of payment options we act as the I would say the payment gateway for everything whether it's credit card or GCash or grab pay or payments through 711 so we simplify everything for the seller instead of the seller contacting those different institutions like we go with for example GCash, they apply for a merchant account they go with 711, they apply for that is the business of the customer I mean the seller so we simplify everything for them so that the value that we're bringing is that in terms of connectivity that is simplified and in terms of reconciliation also that is simplified on the back ends process I mean I can from personal experience I know sobrang hassle I mean you think oh it's great madami kong nabenta madami money coming in but at the same time madami accounting that you need to oh this person on this day magkano ba, pumasok ba sa account so it's a lot of it's a lot of back end there's a lot of things going on at the back end that the customer should just ignore kasi dapat seamless na yung deba parang wala na siyang pake dun kung itong approval na ito basta authentic namin transaction wala ng easy pin pa yung customer that's right all payment options if it passes through panamics are well accounted for so meaning they know I mean the seller knows na ito galing kay Anton kung payment na ito or galing kay Juan for example so to keep to the order ID that the customer checked out in these days na we were talking offline because of the pandemic or basically two years into it andamin ng businesses online you can buy anything online but I'm curious also have you seen a surge in fraud or parang fraudulent claims or people trying to scam with credit cards and things and actually I'll make kasi yung hardware sugar experience na if you remember we had a thing maybe like last year na we had people trying to use foreign credit cards na obviously fake but have you seen more an increase in that because of the volume yes that's right actually right now parang I would say fraudsters are always on the lookout even before pandemic hit but I would say more so today because everything shifted online so we see a lot of patterns they're trying to hack say for example a bank's certain bin para to use that even on that technical level hindi man lang phishing or may fake na credit card details I mean they're actual active intruders trying to get into the bank systems yes yes yes there's a lot of that because they want to make it on a grander scale makapasok na doon sa system ng banko that's right and if they are able to say for example obtain the card details of that bank for example they can use that and then you'll be surprised for example a lot of them the fraudsters would try to make small purchases just to try the validity of the card if it goes to then they will purchase for example or make use of that in other merchants wherein they will have greater economic benefit for them because why fraudsters do this for example they can resell the products or say for example they can use it for their own so yeah we saw a lot of different patterns actually that's why for example on the pinani side we're very active in monitoring our merchants in any suspicious activities and with us before it goes live actually we train the proper operations or team on the merchant side so how to spot say for example suspicious transactions and then we help them craft their own fraud policies say for example their target market is only Philippines then we can block the foreign issued cards those kinds of policies yeah that's exactly what we did quite a while na sa audience last year we were being targeted by scammers na they had legit card details pero they were stolen they weren't actual people who owned those cards so they kept trying to buy high value items kasi pwede ng irresale like you buy a GPU for 60,000 and then wala kang money out there kasi fake naman it will be charged to somebody else you can sell it for 30k, 40k laki na nang kita mo so yeah in the end based on pay namin sa advice we had to stop accepting foreign issued credit cards na um kawawa din kasi we do have some customers let's say they're OFWs in Saudi and they want to buy a computer for their yung mag-anak nila dito pero di talaga namin well in that case they just need to find they can deposit naman through other methods ang hirap lang kasi nung hassle dami it's hard to you need to protect the safety of everybody versus the convenience of allowing yung foreign issued cards and other safety features um actually na-temp nga ako na kasi they have the details yung delivery address nandun naman na-temp nga ko pumunta one time and parang gusto ko lang makita na oh hindi mo ba parang scammer ka hindi ka ba na potensya or something have you guys ever done that na parang report yung parang you have all of those details naman like maybe the IP address where it's originating from and things have you ever just try to track one down or like if kumaysin di ka to talaga or hackers trying to get into bank systems on our end kasi Anton the customers the end customers the relationship is between the merchant and the end customer and the end customer yes so what we do only is we provide say for example the details of the customer payments and then the patterns and then usually we help them say for example if they want to track down customers which we had say for example an experience with one of our merchants they had I would say entrapment operation they carried out entrapment operation and the fraudsters were actually residing in a hotel so the delivery yes big time hotel yes they're inside the hotel tapos they brought along a police so they were able to to get caught to capture them yes parang natempt ako gawin nyo na kasi nga we have their delivery address kasi pakonwari they're buying something well medyo delicado din we have to coordinate with the enforcement pero medyo natatempt talaga ako kasi hassle talaga yung yes actually it's not it's not limited to credit cards it can happen to online banking as well so it's not limited to credit card we had one case before um it's a bank deposit no that this person is trying to claim no pero the person who transacted is actually not the real customer so he just claimed that the deposit slipped that it tastes his no may legitimate deposit pero hindi sa kanya no clean name lang nyan yes yes so there's a lot of that I would say they're very creative actually I was chatting with one of our regulars nga sa chat there and you were saying pinoy yung galing talaga ng scammer we're very creative medyo pinoy ingenuity talaga trying to find creative ways around well it's really you're claiming to own a credit card you're claiming payment kumalat lang this weekend I think my wife saw it yun same na they bought it was a restaurant and then payment via bank transfer pinakitalan yung transfer slip tapos yung yung volume kasi ng restaurant naman monitor talaga in real time na itong 3,000 pesos worth so hindi kinayan lang nila they delivered the food and then when they double check nila hindi fake lang pala yung yes yes that is actually of most businesses because if you're not able to do the reconciliation on a timely manner and if it's back deposit you wouldn't know if, say, for example ang diniposit is check pala and then after 2 days bounce from check or ano pala yung adobe divana no edited so yun yung resella I've heard a lot of stories with sellers selling expensive bags branded bags tapos diverse cam with that modus oh and imagine mo photoshop or even paint you can do it even in paint which is free much of very basic lang din padalam mo and then kung na huli ka wala ka kasi they don't know where you are naman kung nakalusok nakina nung kita mo sa expensive bag or other items madami din modus like say, for example Anton they would create a facebook group sa sabi nila oh discounted say for example discounted bills sa telco or discounted bills sa cable tapos the fraudster would use a stolen card to pay for it pero yung sa sabihin nila dun sa victim o transfer mo sakin by a g-cash or bank deposit as we withdraw hin na nila yun so yung customer parang nanywala sila because of that discount they fell for it and then knowing realizing that they're dealing with the scammer na hindi naman pala gama po post yung payment nila it's because it's a scam oh oh it's too good to be true di ba? like you have a 2,000 meral ko bill and then sabahit it's like ay babayaron ko yun 1-8 nikilalaw sa loob 1-8 ok di ba? I mean it's too good to be true parang pero andaming ganun andaming nalalo ko grave yes yun kasi I would say a lot of us wants to save oh yeah I mean most of them who fell for it didn't do their due diligence parang as the cliche say parang too good to be true yung bill just walk away from it yes it's actually now na parang chevro pandemic andaming expenses or on your mind bang hila ko magipon kasi God forbid I might need it for hospital bills or medicine or whatever and then makamura ko ng 20% right grave yes so that's a benefit of panamics I mean you guys yun yeah you validate each transaction I mean that's one of the values yes yeah so with panamics kasi for example if it's payment via credit card to begin with it's a 3D secure account meaning the card holder will be invoked if the card they're using is 3D secure so there's a basically a liability shift between the card holder and the issuing map so that's the benefit and then when it comes to say for example the wallet it's authenticated no you would know for example as to who paid and whatnot and then for bank deposits as well it's authenticated because the bank that we deal with are the ones validating that deposit asin talaga kung baga confirm na talaga yun na ito na pumasok talaga nabayad talaga kasi sa parang you're still wondering ah check ko na lang kung pumasok ba yung 3,000 ng bank account parang ang daming 3,000 di ba yung problema di mo alam di mo ma-attribute kung kanino ba yung payment correct ang what you have is just that the date yung the amount you cannot attribute it as to kanino ba tong 3,000 yun yes we actually help a lot of membership I mean associations before is their problem to reconcile they have a lot of account but they don't know as to who pay and then say for example ang mangyare is oh they would ask for payments no or follow up payments from the members and then the members would say oh are you ready to pay that can you give me the payment and then they would like argue and they lost the deposit slip for example yes they didn't get it oh I mean kasi yung ma-nature di ba andawin mo deposit slip madali talaga mo wala yun and then in your mind binayarang ko na yun din deposit ko na yun and then two months later oi sir di ka pa wala nagbabayin nung asok juice mo or something yes and then in terms of visibility for the organization or the business mas better because you know yung asok ng para sa inyo di ba na kitam yung cash flow di ba so yun yung value talaga especially for well your hardware sugar kung baka the money that comes in usually kaagad namin yun nagamit pang bilin nung bagong stock yung monitor like o pumasok na ba magagamit naman din parang ganun nagsettle na ba yung transaction so super important yes actually yun yung binibring namin of value to the businesses whether small or big companies no one is the risk management yung risk nung cash handling for example and yun yun yun na mention mo na na po photoshop ganyan yun yung risk na sinosold namin second would be because in terms of reconciliation all payments are well accounted for you don't have to spend like a lot of times reconciling yung the payments or higher additional staff yun yung thing yung staff na yung monitor aning pumasok ito parang mas automated I mean that's right because most of the owners would think nice scaling is equivalent to hiring I don't have any issue on that one but there are things that you can automate yung parang maximize your current staff actually ako yung nag-reconcil kasi parang may other staff can do other things mas pressing just like akit ako nalang parang sobrang dalilang nung interface again guys we use panamics so this isn't an unbiased interview but at the same time we also have personal experience with them and yung to reconcile actually ako personally I set aside like every Friday that's when I go through all of the things to reconcile but yung maganda in that time admin work exactly do kahit work from home anong pa din eh parang kailang parin yung paperwork yung admin work also every Friday that's what I do but for the for the panamics transactions in real time we get a notice ito bayad na to then we automatically we actually we call it project pizza yung parang project namin to make online payments better kasi it should be as easy as ordering a pizza so online orders with us sobrang bilis lang and panamics helps out a lot with that let's get a bit geeky a little bit could you share a little bit what your tech stack is like what what languages do you use for your internal systems and things like that yeah so on the front and we're using Node.js we're using C-sharp or Microsoft.net and then react.js so depends on the capability of the merchant say if they are if they built say for example their website from like a custom built so we provide our ETIs and assist them on the integration and testing but if they're using an open source shopping cart plug-in say for example magento Shopify open cart two commerce Presta shop so we provide the plug-ins to them so it's like changing the parameters na lang and assigning the merchant ID merchant key responding URL like the notification URL yung mga response URL so they would get that post back to that plug-in that they're using so those are the things that we use and then for example for our database we're using PostgreSQL mga elastic search Redis MongoDB yun and then in terms of development we're using Git we're using Docker we're using Amazon Web Services so that's very important all our infrastructure is hosted in cloud which is also yes we've we've been with them since 2016 so that's the time we waited to cloud so we're one the early adopters of using cloud technology it's so big deal na yung AWS ngayon para everybody shifting cloud Google is trying to catch up with them FireDB or any Firebase na yung sa Google version and Microsoft as well Microsoft catch up with them IDN even the technical companies I would say Huawei for example they have Huawei cloud already ah alibaba also has Sige let's compare like Paynamics to because when we first started out with Alcove our first business with Paynamics I really I was the one who researched and there are payment gateways even abroad you can use even if you're locally here I mean PayPal has some kind of payment processing system although to be honest I chose you guys kasi yung yung yung responsive kayo sa inquiry palang yung PayPal I set an inquiry and then wala nag reply so ang hirap kung inquiry palang wala pang wala nang sumasagot sayo let alone pa kung may emergency ka sa payments na ay pangmasa pang payment as wala sumasagot how would you how would you position Paynamics or compare Paynamics against the other international competitors or other brands offering a similar service well first of all Paynamics we're a local company so we built the technology from ground up and our office is here in Mahati so yes so what we provide is a 24-7 support so the other players say for example international players what they have here is just probably sales but they don't have the technical people here so kami the advantage is that we created the software and we're here so in terms of support better for merchants they have someone to talk to is payment related to insurance yes and then in terms of the payment offerings or channels that we offer we're more agnostic because we deal with several payment institutions or financial institutions to be able to cater to the needs of both the merchant and the customers because say for example for Philippines it's not comparing it lang people is one of the payment options that we support but that is limited to credit I would say visa master card and as you know here in the Philippines the credit card penetration is low basically that's what we sold for Paynamics we offer multiple payment options for the customer so if the customer doesn't have a credit card then they can opt to pay using GCash for example or they can go to 7-11 to make the payments that's right and then I would say in terms of fraud also we talk about fraud this is something that should be done proactively not reacting yung na-charge na na-item yes because it might have financial impact on the part of the merchant so kami before you go live for example yung yung make sure that you undergo a training on how to navigate on the dashboards and how to craft your fraud policies so you'll be able to mitigate your risk when you open your website online so and then in terms of that solution our approach payment solutions our approach has always been consultative so meaning it's not an approach where it's a one size fits all because here top down and then top down and then ok na basa ito yung text because yes because dito sa philippines each industry would have their own I would say very fragmented they would have their own requirements say for example as school will have their own requirements at hospital and e-commerce it's not simple as oh, ito yung api ko mag-integrate na-pahala na kaya dyan correct make sure that the merchant experience is great and we are able to assist them in terms of integration testing as and to going live so we make sure also that all of their sales panels are well I would say accounted for in terms of payment acceptance no, we not only focus on website because di naman lahat marunong pangunta sa website their customers that are I would say sorry for the word older or not so techie internet na ito yes so we make sure they are not left behind that there's a solution for them to still pay the merchant so yun very ano kami or it could be as call center set up so we have those solutions for the businesses may may request adi naman request but parang you've emailed him also before because of alcoves and hardware sugar but our main programmer guy he was wondering if you'll ever but if you're moving to a setup na parang stripe kasi yung beauty nung stripe it's just like three lines of code but it's a very piece of code and then you just drop it in any system that you're working with website app parang ganon it's so it's beautiful parang ganon tech na it can do everything just with that simple line of code so our programmer was wondering if pinamix has something in development something akin to that na parang it's like a lego piece parang you just drop it in and then it works seamlessly yes we're actually moving to restful apis you have some merchants that are already migrating to that so yeah the the goal is to really make the integration seamless for parang drop the code in and you're good to go oh yes that's right so yeah hopefully you'll be able to fully implement it by next quarter ok I'll tell Rocky the programmer because usually like I mean to be honest when we were considering payment options top of mind because internationally is the stripe because so we were although it's not available here no regrets that we're using pinamix in fact we two businesses that we use pinamix but it's just it's beautiful concept you just take this to plug it in kasi I think yung barrier to entry din mataase the more technical you get like if you're a small business I have a friend who sells shoes yung mga baby shoes parang ganyan and she was asking me na Anton help me make a website and you know how do we get online kasi lahat sa kanya manual palang and then you know the more technical you get like you have to set up the website and you need to set up the payment provider parang and this is a person na like my age our age pa hindi siya text sa V parang pinangkabahan siya na how do I go about this so the simpler things are I think it really opens up the market much wider to more to more people to more entrance to more merchants parang ganon so simpler simpler talaga the better kasi yung yung challenge I think sa payment processor din you're dealing with a lot of anxiety number one money parang money people get anxious right away the number two technology they also get anxious right kung baga double wami parang it seems so technical tapos masahan ko ba yan with my money so it's a big fence to jump over to get them to try like a payment processor although that's why although I'm happy like people ask me then I recommend pay na makes kasi it's the CS as you mentioned before super important to getting people on board and especially businesses how about we were talking earlier offline like you guys started 2010 and then if you just share a little bit like when you really ramped up like started 2010 when did you really see a pickup in the business right so in 2010 we were having a hard time selling the products or solutions that we have because most businesses are very contented with what they have check payments for example or direct deposit grave so very our payment our pivoting moment is you know a word right before so actually I think our pivoting moment was when Shopee and Lazada came to the Philippines because that's when businesses started to rethink their strategies they saw that oh I can buy online I can sell online and the mindset of the consumers even they they were they change it like say for example oh I can now buy online and pay online so that's actually our pivoting moment for the payments and then it even accelerated this pandemic because because of the limitation on the movement we have helped a lot of businesses shift to online so for example schools these are very traditional back in 2010 when we were trying to close them oh it's additional cost and everything yes it runs we were able to shift them to digital now so I guess most businesses were forced to embrace the innovation and digital transformation and there's a big mind shift in terms of the consumers and I don't think that's going away even after this pandemic so like yung wife ko palang she wasn't really a big online shopper before but because of the pandemic she started buying things and now parang sobrang every week ah tamay bagong like kilala ko na yung parang nag-de-deliver ng Lazada so parang sa sobrang dalas na dumada na sa bahay so yeah it's really yeah if anything even after like things nakonwad sana go back to normal or in the near you know in the next 6 months definitely di mong makakalimutan yung convenience na nakita mo on order then pay then good to go na siya like groceries for example or in vegetables even insurance products appliances everything is being done online may payments na tuition fee payment bills payment so yeah ngayon nga magtatakap ay yung mga customers laba kayo online parang na yung tanong yes actually yun chaka malambang COD yun yung dalawang nga dapad pay na issue dapas COD anirap mo na yun I would say yung biggest ano na namin competitor right now would be COD we want to yes but kasi dito sa Philippines it's a big part of e-commerce because of the class issue parang people wants to see first if it will be delivered to you tas kaliwaan kayo ganyan pero I guess it's changing nowadays na every like it's shifting to online na rin naman for convenience a lot of businesses pay for example gives discount or incentivize na customers if they do it pre-paid meaning they pay before it gets delivered so yeah like kami sa hardware sugar we also don't do COD kasi hassle I mean you either trust a career na parang mahirap kasi third party or you do it yourself pero ang laki nung expenses mo to have somebody like a driver like nakamoto and everything ang hirap to to get it from the ground oh yeah and even if you trust the guy what if like manakawang siya on the road di ba i mean yung sa computer parts pa lang medyo mahal pa minsan so you can trust him but medyo delicado sa daan so oh it can yes and it goes what actually dun sa reconciliation process mo problem mo sa example pag limit niya sa iyo sa rado na rin bang ko saan may tatabi ang pera di ba Saturday, Sunday na sa bahay na sa bahay lang yung 50,000 di ba nang itay niya na ano o pag inevitably di ba ba balik sa iyo sa shop and then ko lang nung 1,000 and then he'll be like asa kasi nung gas or something or fangkain and then niti gritty accounting so yeah TOD actually big we don't do it kasi yung yung medyo hassle we don't have somebody asking in the chat so how do they apply like if they're a merchant and they want to use panamics and then kung may minimum sales requirement ba for panamics sula kami minimum sales requirement no also tell you the viewers no we have two solutions for our payment solutions no one is the enterprise version of panamics wherein we providing the APIs the plugins if you need to to use those and then the other one is what we call pay this so we design that with the SMEs in mind so that if even if they don't have a website they can still collect payments for example for orders coming from their Instagram account or Viber account or say for example fb messenger no they can easily create SKUs and specific QR codes for that SKU or a payment link specific to that for what the customer purchase so yes customize links and QR codes and they can use it face to face and non face to face of it so pay this it's actually download the ball sa iOS and Android you just have to sign up and then complete the KYC requirements which is one valid ID and then you have to do the selfie and the video KYC no and then you'll be able to set it up so it doesn't have a set of fee we only charge per successful transaction fee so it's perfect for those smaller merchants who wants to accept payments you'll be able to reconcile seamlessly because you will know like at the end of the day you just log on to the dashboard and you will see all the transactions with the corresponding details of the customer so but proprietary to no I mean it's like the base sorry the PTBs is the PBs PTBs your website na yung back end yung yung to see the transactions yes so PTBs it has a dashboard no we can see the transaction so PTBs because it's a new product we launched it last year because we were granted an imani license by RBSP so instead of most wallets kasi would focus on consumer wallets our focus is really to enable more small medium enterprises to be able to accept payments so yung goal namin so put it in context par siyang people for businesses parang ganoon yung concept namin and then ang maganda pa siya namin it can cater to like you can create parang keep inventories nung sa system ah ok ok may inventory it's more than payment and then you can book actually shipping so once mayad na kumaga makapag ship ka na rin products to the customer so yung kagandahan I should recommend that to my friend pen and paper pen and paper para na business yes if you want to know more about that you can log on to www.biz.ph or you can search the app yes in the store IOS store in Google Play so it's there actually napakaganda nyan na system because alam mo Anton most of the Instagram sellers parang one mantin niya ni may customers so basically ito since a mobile app siya kahit nakahiga ka na you can create payment rates for that customer so yung I find that super useful you don't really think about it when you're a consumer but as a merchant yung parang andami ang variations of orders na pwede like itong item A as gusto niya in red as an item C in green ito make your own cart and then para hindi naman yaman si customer you make the cart for him then you just sign a QR code na or whatever customized link like what we do sa hardware sugar para yung niya hindi na may hirapan yung customer which is what a merchant wants parang seamless frictionless that's right because sometimes ang ginagawa ngayon di ba kung may website it did direct nung sa website pero I would say confusing on the part say for example pag hindi din sila tech sabi parang ito you can create a specific kung ano nang gusto niya specific item at add to cart agad na yun lang wala na ibang option so kung magamas malaki yung chances of closing that account or business with that customer parang you remove the tedium kasi kait customer ka and kait marunong ka pupunta ka pa sa site mag add to cart kapa ito yung items mo and then just sometimes nid mo ba mag create ng account di ba yes yun per merchant face-on-ease sa really account parang ano naman nilaw na makitrak yung passwords or you have the same password then god forbid na hack so parang lahat na sites mo parang domino effect na damay na di ba so di rin yun safe e-missan niya ang adga na Facebook ano ka nalalogin I always tell yung I'm a developer because we're trying to do a login now for hardware sugar it's on Facebook para di na kailan mag-isip masyado you just click that and you allow the although the problem with that is you need to interface with Facebook and Google so di ba parang yung back-end nila yung o-o-o-authent or Google o-o-o-o-o yeah o-o so isa pang headache di naman o programmer so I rely on my programmer the ones that we have on staff so medyo it can be daunting din I just wanted to ask you kasi basically you guys are a fintech or parang financial technology enterprise what your thoughts are on parang fintech is always in the news but especially now na the biggest fintech startup let's say in Europe is yung buy now pay later in the state Apple I think recently bought a similar business parang gano and it's a billion dollar or something but it's a really big market what are your thoughts on that here in the Philippine setting and if would pay na mix would pay na mix get into that eventually or not something that you're interested in at the moment well actually for fintech companies like as we find ways in innovating the products that we have because I mean the requirement of the businesses and blogs especially this pandemic no as niunya before we went on air diba I was trying to I was telling yung yung shift na dun sa demand to have installment options also for the customers because these customers are looking for ways on how they can save money at the same time pay lightly so ngayon we see a lot of search in terms of installment payments for credit cards and as you see a lot of companies also that are starting their non credit card installment na man the likes of bill is for example matagal na for example home credit home credit also our partner so yung yung mga pinating na namin na well adding it to the payment options that we have so a lot of buy no pay later is being offered now and those kinds of non credit card installment payments is also crucial I would say in terms of being able to increase your sales as a merchant kasi say for example yung mga tao ngayon they would ask wala bang installment yan all the time for higher ticket items di ba partner na nyo si home credit like we can first time first time I'm a customer already but I want to avail of that service so they can pay through pay dynamics but it's home credit kung baga may how does that work okay so right now for home credit we're providing the payment gateway for them for their customers to make the repayments of loan soon they will be part of also the payment options that the dynamics has yes you can check out a news home credit as the payment option so yes great I would use that as wait for I would enable that for hardware sugar actually we tried like 2 years ago to apply with home credit pero andaming requirements and then pinasko naman the requirements as di ko na sin I didn't hear from them anymore so mas maganda kung yun integrated na sa pay dynamics para we can just select it as an option and then lahat na nung back in sila nabahala like what they need from the customer or kung approved na mas customer anong credit limit niya parang ganon yung payment si customer right what we want is na approved na yan okay na yan number 2 we get the payment then release na namin yung item so parang simple lang yes ang challenge kasi dito sa atin in terms of credit scoring ang ganyan actually yung the lack of I would say a national ID which right now is being you know done but well the implementation yung roll out medyo mabagal yes kasi yun yung actually one of the things that will also sold this ability to be able to identify that person yung kasi di ba alam mo yan yung ID galing sa rekt mahirap siya authenticate kung baga on the part of the lending company so that's the thing and then we don't have a centralized database for example where if we want to check the validity of that in number or the driver's license yung mga ganon wala tayong ganon pa so I think those are the challenges that these companies have in terms of credit scoring actually we have a law like way ten years or something agon yung required yung credit information like everybody is supposed to data dump to this one NGO na parang credit information something or other but nobody really again as usual it's the implementation nobody really follows it so we don't have in the states that there are at least two major credit scoring bureaus like Anton Koneos parang o ito nag-biden mortgage o nag-depot sa car loan parang ganon ang problem naman yung for example ang challenge is most companies they don't want to share their data it's proprietary because kung bad customer yan you also bear the loss parang di siya nag-bide sa ame di siya mag-bide sayo parang quits lang tayo parang ganon it's a very it's a very that's confidential we don't share parang ganon yeah there's one actually for credit cards no but the data that they have is limited also so limited lang sa dun sa may mga credit card for example if di nag-bide ng credit card for example or may litigation or civility sa mga ganon so limited pa rin yung data actually and as you mentioned sobrang the penetration of credit cards in the Philippines is very low actually in general it's very low and then mas maliit pa yung credit cards kasi more people have bank accounts than credit cards although I guess as a fintech it's very exciting kasi kung mga very young pa yung ano natin yung consumer base I mean yung more people as you know hopefully the economy improves people the middle class expands more people will get banks more people will get accounts more people will get credit cards so parang must be super exciting to be in the fintech space now especially with acceleration because of the pandemic acceptance of online payments just zero last question nalang kasi I don't want to keep you and I know it's lunchtime and actually parang na in ganon na ako na accept na pa yung home credit soon will look out for that just as a kasi it's well di naman siya big thing but I was curious cryptocurrencies becoming more and more mainstream we have GCash supposedly going to accept it soon finance is very easy to trade like if you're in the Philippines to use finance and other services I was just wondering if panamics would eventually allow crypto kasi actually on hardware sugar we accept na bitcoin but we have to use a different service and we were researching actually it's very hard to find one service that accepts all of the major coins like ripple like ethereal like bitcoin is it something that panamics is sort of looking into or we can like expect in the future so actually right now to be honest there's no clamor to it for merchants to local yes there's no clamor because first merchants they don't understand mo yung what is complicated it's kind of complicated because it's volatile and then they would see they would be flooded by news na half or you know volatile yung bitcoin yes so I guess it's not yet mainstream no here in the Philippines but once that we get to that point that everyone I would say is familiar na with the crypto yeah we can look into that in kasi to be honest wala siyang clamor because they find it too complicated actually it's very cumbersome even like how to get the crypto in the first place how do you get exactly more for trading I mean I know a lot of people who trade but not really use it as a means of commerce na oh I'm gonna buy something right although we did have one customer who has repeatedly bought from us using bitcoin so at least sobrang early adopters but interesting na na wala masyadong I guess on the ground level like merchants and customers dito sa atin you sing it for commerce ngayon kasi I would sing nandong tie sa stage na mobile wallets getting popular na di ba andami siya malakaman g-cash do ako kaya mahaslali mas gusto ko g-cash kasi yung hirap ng let's say yung bill mo 621 pesos magano ko pa ng 1 peso di ba na coin yung physical na no hassle alo like for me also no nagbabay ka ko na miso malakanda lang cash tapos nabiling ka di ba sabi g-cash ka ba do kasi sobrang useful na namin cell phone lang yung parang you can just send it right away I find it interesting na may pushback against the digital wallet specifically I've noticed from yung mga lalamove or yung mga Mr. Speedy yung ayon na tumanggap ng payments kung via the wallet I notice sometimes if I use lalamove and then I use yung credit ko na nandon or yung grab credit na nandon parang mas matagal when I chat with the drivers they're like some really don't like I guess there's a yung physical na sanay kasi yung mataw na they're holding the cash and then parang di ba parang sayo yan kasi sa yung you just need like 100 pesos on the screen ibang pa rin yung tangible association with physical cash but as a customer you like it more kasi yung ay it's a lot less hassle I agree din naman pero kasi yung use keys for mobile wallets it has to also evolve say for example when you go to the wet market di ba cash parin naman yung bayaran din kaya siguro din nga drivers di ba at the end of the day bibilin sa palaikin at egg or meat di ba hindi naman si makabahed ng G cash kaya gusto nila siguro yung physical cash na pambayad nila sa G Ano din ko sa credit ko sa cell phone di ba di ko naman for example sa Jeep di ko pa naman makapambayad na di ba G cash so I guess yung talaga yung time na everything is can be paid by a digital payments talaga up to the yun nga yung wet market or even the tricycle siguro yun yung magandang user experience para sa lahat para yung adoption mas lumawa There's a big gap now a good point between yung basic services na on the street level I guess neither talaga doon yung China kasi everybody din sanay na sa Alipay kaya di ba mga vendo kaya di ba mga people asking for money on the street may parang QR code Actually I'm one of them I would say I'm blessed to be able to represent Philippines back in 2019 in Alibaba no business school I would like to see yung technology nila Alibaba in China So you're correct even beggars they have a QR code They're holding up the QR code Yes and you'll be amazing for example in China if you pay in cash parang it's been decades that they don't even give in parang after parang they're amazed parang kung may cash ka-kapang kasi for them Yes kasi for them it's hassle they have to go to the bank to physically deposit that money It's a point of possible loss possible theft I mean it's not as secure like yung wallet or something Yes wallet has been a way of life there so everyone has yung ang magandang k'y Alibaba Alipay for example and WeChat Pay nags-start sila yung source ng funds to the wallet is through bank accounts nung kasi nilang Yes yung yung maganda dun talagang of course hindi ka pwede maging fraudster malvalidated yung bank account recently nga they activated the credit card for the foreigners with foreigners in their mind but it's really amazing how they were able to yung spread or adoption ng mobile wallet sa kanilay is massive like everyone is relying on their phones for example if they want to buy insurance they want to donate for example even yung use case na for example magpapakasal ka patingin ng ng credit scoring mo sa to wallet mo ganun sa granular yung yung na acceptance na parang it's just a fact of life parang Ang galing susana we reached that point but for now I guess we're taking that baby steps but still it's a good development on our end yung pag-sign up ng wallet is actually I would say more welcome to the consumers compared to opening a bank account alam mo yung kasi di ba parang inisip nung yung I would say below middle class they would for example siguro farmers they would need to take a shower dress up properly before they go to the branch to open the account yung mang ganun kasi sa yung convenience na nandood na sa ano mo actually I've tried tonic online bank and then ING and it's all kasi sa you go to the physical branch as a shay now and then you have to bring so many parang daming mga papers na pinifila din sa tonic at ING parang mabilis I love the ING yung you can deposit to check like the just candid check and things like that so daming conveniences now to make cash digital and then the savings of maintaining a branch is actually being passed onto a customer by being able to offer higher interest rates compared to the traditional banks yeah it's good to have those innovations in terms of banking chaka internet sa RBSPS medyo very open at least yung regulatory body hindi sila yung close minded na ay hindi pwede they're very open to digital and making things faster kasi yan yung I think you're the head of a tech company yung regulatory aspect kasi they do so many things it's hard to innovate if the industry is very stifling daming riyan nereform but at least BSP is very on the ball I've noticed when it comes to fintech and being open to new ideas like that digital or crypto or like virtual exchanges or things like that at least very open to BSP I mean kasi sa atin you're a business depending on what government agency you deal with or paminsan and things like that so it's refreshing at least the main regulator in the financial space is very forward thinking kung baga so props to BSP so thanks so much for your time Maylina just close with the comments from the chat like KAC from YouTube commenting that in Thailand they have QR for everything universal QR so you can pay anything though actually I've never read the Thailand but I guess that's like what your pay biz is pushing for QR is the main avenue by which you pay and you identify like what the transaction is and things like that and metatron from YouTube says digital wallets are a bridge for those unbanked unbanked has a great potential for fintech kasi as we mentioned in the stream na daming filipinos na wala pang bank account and it's so much easier to open up a financial account kaisas yung you have to dress up and remember may it's a big thing I mean you're not medyo kinakabahan ka you have to go to the bank I mean you know if you're a farmer or if you're you're not used to dealing with financial institutions ay kait akong ay I'm sending it from the tailor depositing a check and then pamit ang bagal nila the time and think ano mangyari sa check bakit ano may problema ba and then akong na to I mean I'm used to bank I mean I you know what more if somebody is not used to bank more people will start using services like that yeah so thanks so much and it's good to finally talk to you it's been a while since I told at Hardware Sugar and then ano ah hintayin ko ang home credit sobrang big deal and we would really I think that would really help us out because a lot of people have been asking Hardware Sugar at home credit and we're like no, not like that so I think that would be a big deal actually our parts or more or something o manaking bagay talagin yun if you want to plug anything before we go yeah so if you want to know more about being able to accept payments for your business just visit www.pnamics.com or the other products that we have for smaller businesses would be www.pbiz.ph or you can also look in your android or IOS or Google Play it's a mobile app basically that you can download and navigate so thank you so much Anton for giving this opportunity to talk about fintech and payment I'll give it a time I always enjoy like local like local tech start up and then we're a very happy customer of Phenomics we've been using them for years so it's always nice to see the back end kung baga of all the payment transactions and things like that and yeah digital financial stuff and things like that so thank you I'll just end the stream stay online and then I'll close the Google Meet so stream first alright thanks for watching guys pwede magtanong our other our live text show should come back this Friday usual time around 9.30pm usual host Rocky the programmer Rafael my brother and then Marvin and myself so do check us out then and yeah thanks for watching have a good day have a good lunch stay safe