 Stephanie, any feedback? Yes. He said that the number 7 wasn't quite accurate, so I'm just going to come up with something. We need to order. Are there any additions or modifications to the agenda? And I'm a motion that we adopt the agenda as is. Seconded by Susie. All in favor, raise your hand to say aye. And next, public forum. At this point I invite anybody in the public that would like to speak. Yeah, I just want to first come first serve. Please sit down and I'll please speak into the microphone. Particularly women and certain other groups are nervous about the union act of the night. It's nice now where it's light until 8 or 9 o'clock at night, but in the middle of winter it gets dark pretty dark early. So sort of in an act of desperation about trying to help, we actually announced last week that we were going to take matters into our hands and start a security escort program, which is something the police used to be able to do. And I understand from information here at that, resources are so constrained at this point that they're no longer able to provide that service for downtown courts. Used to be with the call number and they would be able to stop. So we don't have that for people who work downtown. We have people actually leaving their jobs because it's concerned about security. And we have had a series of violent incidents over the last month. So if this isn't all in people's heads, hoping, praying, there's actually stuff going on the street. This is our, I think of downtown as our living room. This is where we come to be together in a community. Everyone should feel welcome and safe here no matter what. And I put a lot of my heart into this downtown over the last decade that I've had this job. City Hall Park was a project that I was very involved in early on. We're using a downtown for everyone because it does not feel safe and secure for people who want to come here. So I'm asking the commission, pleading with the commission to do whatever it is within their authority to address the need for more security and safety services for downtown. I spoke to the gentleman in the city that has hired to control City Hall Park a couple of hours ago. One of the gentlemen said to me, we've got quite a cast of characters here. They're pretty tough. So I feel like if we really want our city, especially our living room in our downtown, to be something that everybody feels comfortable coming to and enjoying, we need to take what I consider to be a public safety crisis that we're in right now very seriously. And particularly considering the window of time might take to providing the resources, I think that that in itself creates a lot of urgency because it's not like we can fix this tomorrow with money or people. This is a long-term fix. It has been over a year since we started down this road and the fix is not something we can do quickly. So please, if there's any action you can take to help protect people who work downtown, if you want to go visit downtown, so you're in the pre-safety resources, please do it as quickly as you can. Sorry, I'm missing it with all my energy and concerns about this going on. Our church and our postcommissions keep the street running smoothly. We'd like to say we're under a clean, safe and fun atmosphere out there. We certainly had a lot of fun over the weekend. People was intact. That was great. Now we have to go to another shooting and what goes on is kind of next. We are very concerned about the safety in our community and especially on Church Street and downtown. And so whatever you can do to express to the city council the urgency in this matter to get this thing under control and to make something happen, we cannot wait for this. There's some ongoing studies about how to do policing in a different manner. I get that. It makes sense to do those studies, but we cannot wait for those studies to be completed. We need to take action now. And I would offer our support, the marketplace commission, and whatever you decide, if you decide to implore upon the city council to increase safety measures in town, you have the marketplace commission will back you up on this. Thank you. Thank you. Good afternoon. For those of you who don't know me, my name is Yves Bradley. I had the pleasure of serving on the police commission for 12 years and have been a planning commissioner now for 10 years. I owned a business on Church Street called the Body Shop for 10 years and have been in commercial real estate for about 17 years. And I'm 57 years old and I've lived in Burrwood since I was 17. So it's been 40 years. I've lived here my entire adult life. I have never felt less safe in this city than I do now. I have two children, a 21-year-old who works at Pizzeria Verita and an 18-year-old who doesn't drive yet. He rides a bicycle and he rides across town to see his friends and sometimes comes home late. I never used to worry about him and I really worry about him now. When I was a commissioner, we had 90 in the police department and we did studies that showed compared to other municipalities of our size that we should be at 105. We were never able to reach that number, but there was common agreement that that would be the number that would provide adequate policing services, adequate staffing with adequate time off, no overtime, and no additional expense to the city to really police the city properly. I am appalled by the behavior I see in our city. I'm appalled by the graffiti. I'm appalled by the lack of cleanliness. I'm appalled by the lack of courtesy. I see people running red lights all the time. I see road rage incidents. There are shootings in our downtown. I implore you, we need more of a presence for everyone's safety, everyone's. And in my humble opinion, removing officers from the city and making the force go down in number does far less harm to the people who don't really need the help and far more harm to the people who I think we're really trying to protect and those are the ones who are less served, who are more unfortunate. They are the ones who really are in need of police services on a regularly consistent basis and we simply cannot provide from what I've experienced the service that we should be able to provide to our citizens in the city. So I implore you, please, work with the council, help them understand the situation we find ourselves in because I'm no stranger to it as I'm sure you are. It will take from the point of hire a minimum of a year for someone to go out and be on patrol and be able to serve this community. So we're in trouble and I really hope you'll see it in the way that I see it which is I feel we are absolutely at a crossroads in this city and I'll tell you with all honesty for the first time ever, I'm considering whether I want to live here anymore and I should never think that I've lived here for 40 years, always in Burlington. That's it. Thank you. Thank you. Good evening. Thank you all. My name is Paul DeSell. I'm a Ward 7 resident, former city councilor for eight years. So I'm sitting here representing those voices maybe who are too afraid to raise their opinion, raise their voices who are scared all over the city, not just on my street but all over Burlington. Last meeting it was brought up during your discussion time that most of you haven't done a ride along yet with any officers. Now, with all due respect to the gentlemen in the room today, I think you might get a different perspective riding along with an officer or a sergeant. Understand what they have to go through in a day. Their day that might be 15 hours long or 17 hours long, they might have 20 or 30 hours overtime in a week. How many of us could do that and bear the same weight on our shoulders that they have to? They have to be perfect. We don't. I'm upset. I'm upset for the parents that will inevitably get a phone call. Their child was killed, raped. What have you? It's going to happen. I don't know why any of us in this room believe that it won't. I'd love to say that this is the safest place to live in the state, but it's not. I think if anybody in this room says that it is, they're kidding themselves. I never thought I'd have to sit up here and say these things or anybody would have to listen to my view on this. I've got a daughter who's 18 and I'm petrified every time she leaves the house. Hold your meetings in the park. Hold your meetings on church to be at 10 o'clock at night. Tell me, you feel safe. You won't. Bar tenders, people who have to work at two in the morning driving an Uber cab, going home. You don't feel safe. Whatever the charter allows you all to do, please do it. Please recommend to the city council, maybe they'll listen eventually. Something's got to give. Somebody's going to die. We're on borrowed time. Wish we weren't. Thank you. Thank you. I welcome anybody else from the public. I'd like to speak at this point. I close this agenda item and thank you for everyone who came up and spoke for it. Moving on to agenda item 3.01, discussion on BPD staffing. So as we know, the CSL, the community support liaison is something that has started and is up and running. So as of right now, we have the one that we are slated to hire and that will sit with me at the police department. And then we have, there is the resolution positions, the two additional community support liaisons who are the same title as the one that's going to sit at the police department. Job description is basically the same. But currently those positions and where they're going to sit is what is holding up the posting of the job. So as it looks right now, it's kind of two separate tracks and which would require me to duplicate everything basically. And so the hope is, is that with the small hang up around the location, which to me seems like a pretty inconsequential issue, given that the community is in the title of the position. My desk is where I keep my secure things. It is where I access the system. It is not where I do my work. That is where I do my administrative work. My job is in the community. So the literal location of the desk is my understanding is what has resulted in not having it posted currently. So that in itself is a little not great to say it simply. It really feels inefficient, just on a whole, all different sorts of levels. And that these positions are really created for the intention of them being re-envisioning public safety. I understand why folks who are hesitant for them to sit at the department that I get that. And I'm not, you know, even though I think they should sit at the department, I don't think it's necessary. But I also think it's a very, again, very small potatoes compared to actually getting somebody in and doing the work because they will be spending the least amount of time at their desk. That is not where they're intended to be. So just some food for thought in that the idea of these people being trained as a team of three versus a team of one and then bringing in the two additional people at some time, depending on the amount of time. Just all of the benefits of being able to actually relieve some of the tension that exists in terms of just the workload that's coming into the department because that hasn't changed. Calls for service hasn't changed. And so when I come in and I look at the list of calls that are waiting for responses, there could be, you know, I'm one person who could take one of those calls where I can have one more person with me and I can already tell you that I would fill their workload and so they will help me. They will relieve no pressure, very little pressure internally because they will be able to respond to calls. But again, it's one person versus three where the level of impact that we would be able to have on the workload would just be more tangible. And it would kind of just turn down that, I'm going to stick it down a little bit, I guess, for lack of better terms. So I don't, again, so where they live, I think it could be the Community Justice Center. I think it could be, I mean, I'm more concerned about the bodies and the positions that they are in terms of where they sit because where they sit in my mind isn't entirely relevant to the work. I did my work the last year and I'm out of a motel and, you know, helping folks that are homeless in Burlington try to move into housing. So I didn't step into the department for months. I worked remotely and I worked out of this motel as my office, providing services to help people get into housing. So I just, again, the location itself shouldn't be the reason why we're kind of just folding up the job posting and the help is real and we don't have the work. And I'm having answer questions. Thank you. I have a question for you. So sorry, you mind just talking to the microphone? Yeah, I mean, so we all are doing similar work. It just would be essentially adding to the number of people that will be able to respond to in-the-moment calls for service just like Street Outreach does. The big difference between Street Outreach and the CSL is that Street Outreach has a capacity limitation, meaning they are referral service. They are meant to be the conduit to a service. The CSLs are intended to provide some service in addition to just the in-the-moment resource. So, yes, you can make the referral to a resource, but the CSL is going to be able to provide transportation to get to the appointment. They're going to be able to follow up with the person to see if there's anything additional. They're going to be able to do the follow-up after the referral. And that's a massive difference. So the CSLs in Street Outreach are kind of going to be secular in terms of you just see arrows and kind of the two names and they are referring in and out. Because I work, I talk to their supervisor and I work with them on a daily basis. It just, I think it's a compliment, the work. And it just would all, again, with the combination of the CSOs eventually coming online, there would be this tandem between the CSOs, the CSL, Street Outreach, in regard to having a good degree of folks that will be able to respond to situations where an armed officer is not necessary. And that's the intention I would, by my understanding of both the CSO and the CSL. So they're similar but yet different. I would just think about it in terms of just the CSL has the capacity to do more and they're not befolded into kind of the agency's vision. They are public servants to the city of Burlington. Oh, I mean, it's, I don't have a choice as to who I serve. I'm just, so this is all kind of based on terms of my job. So I serve the entire community. There is no, there is no criteria as to when somebody gets in touch with me. It can come from the police department. It can come directly from the community itself. It can come from a service provider. There is no, like, I have like no wrong door approach, basically. There's multiple ways to get in touch with me and I don't have a boss. So I don't have something where like, that's not really relevant to me. That's not the work of the idea. My job would be like, you came to me because you obviously needed assistance or something. And so I'm going to help you figure it out where you need to go and how you need to do it. Here's how you can do it. So there is no wrong question in terms of what's coming to me. And they are going to be of the same vein. They are meant to be a concierge to some degree in terms of their understanding of resources. And then the degree of support that they provide is going to be defined by what the need is in the moment. So I can't, I mean, I serve the citizens of Burlington, a public servant. And these positions are no different being city employees. So in terms of scale, it's really based on the need. And who needs the assistance? Estimation and scale. I say that you don't need to know. You don't need to know. So that's the thing is that like I, my caseload, if you want to call it a caseload, fluctuates. I have people that I've worked with for years that I've followed from the street into housing. Now how long I've stayed with them because that's been their desire. They have known that's up to them. I have other people I've been involved with for months. I have other people who are, again, all they need is that moment. So I have my regulars, as I would say. I have about six. I can't have nearly as many regulars as I would like to because I just, that is one component of my job. And so because I have all of these other elements of the things that I do, I have to balance my direct service with the administrative side of my job. The CSLs will be far more direct service. So they're going to have way more capacity to have more people than I am packing. They're going to kind of provide a service that isn't, I want to be consistent and I want to be able to give people the time. I'm very cognizant about taking people on because I don't just want to be one more person. And that says that I helped you with this, but now I'm going to go. Even though none of the rest of your services changed. I forgot the question. Sorry. It was all very long. Oh, thank you. So you mentioned that one CSL was already required for two remaining men. So what I hear you say is that you will be trained with one and have to do another training for the other two unless they're fired soon. Unless they, yes. So the ideal is that we interviewed multiple people and honestly we had three fantastic candidates and really like, it was heart-frenching the idea of just having two because they all deserved, they were all where they had been hired. And so, yes, we have offered the one job that one has been offered and is going through the background right now. And so this other job posting and just waiting for that, for it to literally, yeah, for it to be posted. Yes. Because of where they, yes, because the location of where their desks are is to be determined. In my understanding, the determination is made by the city council and the director of transformation. You know, I actually, I think where we are is a good starting point to assess from. I think three sounds like, you know, and I know this M2000 thinking in terms of there are other projects that are coming online in the community that will also kind of bolster up this idea of just alternative responses. And so I do know that there will be other positions coming online and we all are trying to be very, you know, very deliberate in how we are meeting and collaborating because there has been growth in terms of outreach and stuff. Very similar to what I did when up until last year I was one of three. So I think the three is a really good place to start to even see what it is that we can actually offload onto them with the department has the ability to actually offload and to just, again, to be able to see what kind of capacity there is because to have, this is kind of like transitional case management doesn't really, or non-categorical case management, that stuff usually tends to last a while because, again, it's non-categorical. So you don't. So really what is the need? It's really hard to stay because I'm just one person and so I know what I can do, but it's really hard to say what I can't do because it's so big. I need further questions for Lazy while we have her here. Susie. Yeah. I mean, I think that the system itself is running up against the idea that we're a relatively small community. We have groups that are struggling, especially ones that interface with public safety or public safety element of the system, and that's the whole kind of spectrum from crisis to criminal justice is kind of what I would, it's the whole gamut that enters the public safety system. That we know who a lot of them are, and we all are interfacing with them kind of in different degrees. We have to, there isn't an unlimited amount of resources and people, and so we have to be kind of more delivered and our social services are stretched far beyond their capacity. So I think we learned during COVID that the only way that we can successfully actually help people, help themselves in whatever way that it looks like that we have to be intentional in how we are collaborating with one another and it doesn't help, unfortunately, with the CSLs, wherever they sit, it is a bit of a silo. And the work that I do is you cannot do it unless you're doing it collaboratively, but whether you put them out in the island or not, the community is there where their job is. So that's why I'm kind of like wherever you put them, you put them. It isn't going to prevent the work that's going to get done on my end or anybody else's end, but I think they should sit with myself and the other CSL. That's the ideal. I understand that not everybody believes in the ideal and I get that. So my priority is really just wanting people in the positions to be able to do the work. And I think that once people actually can see that work can be done, it just overall everybody might start to feel a little bit better about like this whole transformation we're starting to do and what it actually looks like. Because right now it's just a thing we all talk about. Well, thank you all. I appreciate your time. Thank you very much for your time. The motion by saying that the Police Commission can continue years from the Chief with regard to staffing issues and as well as others about the mental health issues in the community. I think it's fair to say that one of the most dramatic increases might have seen in terms of policy services around mental health. And indeed recently in our recent meeting when we were briefed on a number of these courses, and it's roughly two-thirds of those involved in people with mental health issues. And so with that, I developed a motion for us to consider with regard to staffing issues. And I think what I'll do is read the motion and then see if I have anything to add after that. But the motion does summarize a bit of the background of this. My commissioners have this motion, but I would read it for the public. Whereas in 2020 the Police Commission voted to support an increase in the cap on officer hires from 74 to 82 and whereas the City Council did not approve that request and whereas since that time, patrician amongst PPE staff has occurred more rapidly than anticipated so that by the end of September 2021, the number of officers is anticipated to fall to 70. That is four below the current cap. And whereas training requirements resulted in a long leave time to hire new officers with about half of all recruits actually completing the required training that the model is having and whereas given the long leave time to hire new officers, PPE will remain understaffed relative to the cap of 74 for some time and whereas CNA's functional assessment of BPD that will include a recommendation on staffing levels with due September with additional time required for the City Council to act on CNA's recommendations and whereas an increase in the cap from 74 to 82 will likely yield four new officer hires given attrition rates that the Vermont Police is having bringing an actual number of officers to 74 for 70 as of the end of September. The Police Commission urges the City Council to act expeditiously to one, raise the cap temporarily to 82 officers spending any action the City Council will take in response to CNA's recommendations on optimal staff size and two, act immediately to approve hires of two CSLs ideally to be placed at the Community Justice Center with the proviso that the placement be reviewed in three months to determine if that is the appropriate placement for whether another agency such as REIB should oversee the two new CSLs. That is the motion and I'm just asking whether there is a second to the second. Thank you and I just want to add one further thing I really appreciate the discussion in the comments of what people have reached out to me privately as well with regard to recent incidents. One of the things I have learned in this process of commission and listening to especially the presentation with regard to the CAHOOTS model and the work that members of the community are doing on mental health needs is that the problems that some of the problems that we are facing are a function of a long-term defunding of social services and the CSLs to me seem fundamentally important in being preventative if you will so that we don't reach some of the crises that we have observed but I want to just emphasize that it is the under-friendly of social services in many ways that has left us in the situation that we're in today not, you know, so I think we have to think differently about the issue of crime and public safety and that is that there is a lot of on that need in our community and that has at least partially contributed to some of the problems that we're facing and that hiring our officers is not necessarily a fix to that but that's not the only solution and just speaking about the studies the work that has been done around public safety and the city's vision for public safety the most emphasis people that participated in the survey and the town meetings is in particular around the issues of lack of support for mental health and social services for people to need so I think that's a broadly shared value in the community so I wanted to just contextualize some of the comments where I think that the solution has to be not just for these officers but the city meeting some of these social services as well and the CSL is going to some angel address and that, thanks So Stephanie motioned in second by Shereem so the floor is open for discussion Thank you, I have a few things that I'd like to say and I apologize to anyone who's heard some of these things before but because I continue to hear certain things I would like to emphasize my concerns and what I believe are also the concerns of others in the community I agree a great deal with my fellow commissioner in the comments that were just said so I will be supporting this although reluctantly so I would like to kind of talk about that I was the lone commissioner previously who voted against the cap I wanted to wait for the CNA consultants to finish their job I thought that was a very, very important job and I felt that was going to give us a really objective view of what is going on in our department Unfortunately they did not receive all the information that they needed to complete their evaluation by the original date and so that date has had to be extended so that's where we are we should have had that data by now and we don't so going back to what was said about the attrition occurring faster than anticipated and this is not a situation just in Burlington this is happening statewide officers are leaving and this is happening nationally one because either officers that are close to retirement have decided this is the time other officers don't want to continue the job in this type of environment can we live up to the moment as everyone talks about I know easier is not the term that I want but is there someplace else I can go where I would feel more appreciated all those issues are affecting officers here they're affecting officers in Vermont they're affecting officers nationally so if people, if you read about these things you know that this is happening I appreciate people not feeling sick I definitely have experienced that myself I am out and about in church streets sometimes late at night and I do see a certain aggressive behavior that is very concerning now having said that I don't always agree that the best way to deal with it is to put more police officers in the mix I believe we need to have a holistic approach if you have the opportunity please listen to our last meeting regarding the Cohoots model this is really important I think this is going to go a long way in helping us to address issues that quite frankly are not appropriate for police officers to address I don't think we should have police officers in City Hall Park taking away liquor from people and pouring it out and if they're just at that time sitting not doing anything we have I think a better way of handling it quite frankly and as it was stated it cannot over emphasize the fact that our social services have been underfunded and now we are living with the results of that so in addition to supporting the police department we need to be supporting the funding of social services because we need these positions out in the community to work with these individuals they get to know these individuals interactions aren't necessarily going to be so confrontational and I think that's just something we need to be thinking about a holistic approach and the Cohoots model needs our support it's been very very successful where it's used a lot of communities nationally are looking at this and working on trying to engage in their communities as well with regards to the CSL positions I appreciate Lacey coming to see us again a few months ago she made a presentation to the commission I was someone who was concerned about the CSL's being in the police department after her presentation I don't have that concern anymore she made it very very clear she was able to work independently she was able to prioritize and that quite frankly there were certain times where she would need to use some resources in the department so I personally would like to advocate for the CSL's to be hired as soon as possible because we need those bodies doing this work yesterday and I'm comfortable with them being at the police department and I'm delighted that they can continue to have the independence that Lacey has and I think in terms of training and familiarity that's going to be really important too and it can be something that can be re-evaluated put them at the police department re-evaluate that a few months later I don't know it's something I guess we have to talk to the city council about I do like I'm not under out of the park engaging with some people I like that they know these individuals a lot of these the employees for that security firm have worked downtown they've worked for these bars and worked for the clubs they've seen this up close they know some of the regulars quote unquote I think that's just a better use of their services while our police officers can be doing other things thank you very much for your patience and listening to me and I will actually I want to say one other thing I was kind of on the fence about saying it but in terms of safety of children some of us have children who have different concerns they have different concerns when they're out and about are they going to get profiled and that's a real concern in the city you know how there are statistics of incidents that continue to show racial disparities and despite repeatedly asking for an action plan we still don't have one so that is another consideration as well thank you very much so all in favor of the motion as it is raising you say I have a 3.01 so I move to the second session to discuss complaints and disciplinary issues motion by me seconded by Stephanie you have a great chance to say hi that's the conclusion of the session we will be convened in front of this show tonight comment thank you very much and I wish you the best thank you for being here