 Welcome to the nonprofit show. We are so glad that you're here. And I am thrilled to have with us today, one of my favorites from Blumerang, Diana Otero. And she joins us as product marketing manager, also again at Blumerang. But annual reports that engage is the conversation she's brought to us. And Diana has been with us multiple times over the years. And each and every time I typically walk away with like a page filled with notes. So Diana, I'm ready, my pen is here, ready to start taking notes. But for those of you that have joined us again, want to say welcome. Julia Patrick is here. She's the CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy. And I'm Jarrett Ransom, your nonprofit nerd and CEO of the Raven Group. We want to say thank you to our amazing partners, which do include Blumerang. So a shout out to you at Blumerang. Again, thanks to Diana for joining us this month. Every month we have a representative from these sponsors join us. Also want to say thank you to American Nonprofit Academy, Fundraising Academy at National University, non-profit thought leader, your part-time controller, staffing boutique, non-profit nerd, as well as non-profit tech talk. So Julia, can you believe that soon we will have a thousand recorded episodes? And why don't you tell people where they can find us? You know, I'll tell you where you can find us. You know, streaming broadcasts, of course podcasts. If you'd like to consume your content, you know, seeing us or if you'd like to listen to us, you can do it there. And you can also download the app. And this is like one of the fascinating things, cursings, blessings, whatever you want to call it. You know, with nearly a thousand episodes, there's a lot to get through. And so with our app, it'll help you kind of streamline that. So if you need to find something about fundraising or board development or a particular product like Blumerang, you can type that in and then it'll come up and kind of help synthesize kind of the things that are going on. So definitely check us out there. Diana Otero coming to us from the great state of Indiana. You know, a lot of people don't know this, but Indiana really leads the way in so much philanthropic tech, philanthropic studies with Eli Lilly School at IU. I mean, there's a lot going on there. And so I gotta say, I gotta kind of admit when I hear somebody that they're from Indiana, I'm like, okay, they're legit. They know. It's not interesting, you know, because of all these influences and how you've as a state really gotten behind the sector. And it's certainly a national influence, but as product marketing manager, Blumerang, I bet, Diana, you see a little bit of everything, right? You do, right? It is interesting. It's one of those things in your mind. You know that about Indianapolis, but just as you said that, I started counting within a 10 minute walk of our house, there's three different nonprofits that I personally know of that I can just walk over and either help out or participate in their activities. Oh, that's fascinating. And I bet they're all on Blumerang, aren't they? Two of them are, one just moved. And so, well, make some friends over there. Yeah, no, that's fascinating. And we keep saying, Julia, that we're gonna make it to the headquarters out there for Blumerang. So that's all my 2024 goals. But let's dive deep into this conversation because I'm really curious, annual reports that engage. And we think about this, your first talking point here is for us to think about what the donors want to hear. What is they want to hear? Yeah. Absolutely. I like, so Catherine Fuller, president and CEO of World Wildlife Fund. I think she really says it best. And it's essentially the same, whatever type of nonprofit you are, the message is that you couldn't be doing this. You cannot do this without the donor's help. Like that is at the core of what you're doing or that's how you provide services, programs, benefits to your constituents is with the help of these donors. So really, that's the biggest message and that's what they want to hear. Did I help? How did I help? You know, I think of that as the boy ethos, you know, boy, because of you. And if you frame that in, like what is it? Because of you, we were able to do this because there's so much lost in our connectivity and what we do. And so I appreciate you bringing this up because I think sometimes we forget about that. I mean, on our side in the nonprofit sector, it seems so apparent and so basic, but I think we lose it. And I don't know why that is. I don't know why we lose that sense. I'm curious, Diana, when we think about the donors and what they want to hear, are we asking them by way of a survey? Are these just organic conversations we're having and gleaning the insights? Like how do we really capture what they want to hear? Great question. Is a fantastic question. And there isn't one right answer. There's gonna be a couple, right? Because it also depends on what you have the bandwidth for and what you have the appetite for. What can you, if you want to do a survey, can you? Do you have the means to be able to do that? Or if you don't, can you experiment, right? Hey, compare your different annual reports. How did this one do? What was the messaging there like? And what seemed to get the most engagement from your constituents? Like whether you think it or not, how your donors respond to that, that's telling you something. So pay attention to those cues or even personal conversations with donors. What do they say? What are the things that they pick up on? Do they even talk to you about your annual reports if they do? What are those things that they pick out? And they're like, oh, hey, this was interesting. What caught their attention? So don't get stuck in that. I need to send a survey, I need to ask them. But there are some times that they're telling you you just need to pay attention. And I appreciate that permission, right? Like it's not a one size fits all. It's what do you have the bandwidth? What do you have the appetite for? Well, apparently some donors really want to know about outcomes, right? So not so much what are all of the activities? What are the things that took place throughout the year? But let's highlight those outcomes. So highlight outcomes, not only the activities. Tell us more in that space. Yes, a lot of times we think of annual reports as kind of a summary of what we did, but, and then it stops there. Like it's great. I love knowing what you all did, but why, so what? Why did that matter? Like I want to know why that matters because if I want to keep supporting you, I want to know that it's doing something like as a donor. I'm one of those nerds that I collect all those annual reports that I can get my hands on because I want to see how they're doing it. And I want to see what impact they're making, not just the activities. Yeah, this brought me back to, for any of you that have seen it yet or it's on your list, uncharitable. It's the documentary with Dan Pallotta and he really talked a lot about the impact, highlight the impact and what that looks like. Julie, I'm going to ask you to share your kitchen analogy because I think this is relatable as well. Well, you know, it's funny because when we were talking about this, you know, right in the, in the green room chatter, which today was like the kitchen chatter because we were all about food for some reason. But you know, I think that a lot of times we feel like we got to put all these different ingredients into our pie. And then we pull it out of the oven and it's a pie versus, you know, just putting in a few ingredients and coming out with the same pie in essence. And I think a lot of times we have a sense that if we're busy, we're being productive. And I fall into that trap all the time myself, you know, and to pull back and to say, okay, busy work does not mean productivity. Just because you checked off a big list doesn't mean you're really to use your word Diana impactful. So when, when I saw this, I was like, wow, this is, this is something almost like a way to live, right? Or a way to think or process about your work. And I'm, I was so curious about this because I think a lot of times we can confuse busyness with productivity. Yeah. Absolutely. And again, does like maybe some people want to know all the ingredients that go into it. I'm thinking when we look at an annual report, do we want to know that there was 27 workshops, 13 webinars, seven. I mean, I feel like I'm in a partridge in a pear tree. Like do we need to list all that out or is it just boom? Here's the impact. Here's the outcome of the activities throughout the year. That's what I'm gleaning from this. Is that right, Diana? Absolutely. And the way I think about it, this is very simplified, of course, but like I think about it as what's so what now what. The what is your, this is what we did. We did these webinars, we did these activities, so what? What is the impact? And then relating that to this kind of leads into our next one too of like, okay, now that we know the what and the now what, the what and the so what, the next question is now what? What do we do about this? I like that. So, you know, I've got to ask you in my mind and I'm really interested in both of your opinions. It always seemed to me like back in the day, the annual report was driven by the financial reports that came in from our end of the year. And it seems like over the last 10, 15 years, we've kind of switched it up to saying, no, we're gonna use this as a brochure. And so we're gonna make it a little bit more interesting and we're gonna make it more colorful and we're gonna tell a story, just to pose as to all those pages of the financial reporting and then all the donors in like four point type, right? And I'm wondering, you know, if you've seen that and you talk about choosing a compelling theme, is that part and parcel to this? So like how we're communicating out? I think that is part of it because a couple of things, right? One, it is part of it of the compelling theme really brings everything together. Like if I have all these different charts, these different numbers, I don't always know how they relate to each other, but having that theme and telling that story puts everything in context. And I think a lot of people get mired in the, or people don't think the same, right? Some people are more numbers driven. Some are not. So combining those different things, you're hitting those different modalities and reaching a wider audience because there's something for everyone to pick up on. Bingo. What do you think about that? Yeah, I'm seeing the financials less and less. And to me, that's not a bad thing because I'm seeing financials shared more often, more frequently throughout the year. So I don't think it's like, okay, now's the time of year that we get to share this transparency of our financials has really become a best practice as we talk about throughout the year as a consistent communication piece is really what I'm trying to say here. So I've seen the annual report move into, we're gonna talk about this next, involving stories, involving visuals, involving iconography into these other ways. I love what you said, Diana, like it really is an opportunity to invite people that gravitate to different elements to still find their way in an annual report. They're not intended to be on a show boring anymore. Like, I love the brochure aspect of it. What about the list and pages and pages and pages of all the donors? What are you seeing with that? I say, cut it, cut it, cut it. It's gone, it's been done. Now, Diana, I do wanna hear from you. Yeah, I mean, what do you think? When I was creating these, it was a nightmare, right? Is our data accurate? Is there spelling accurate? Do we have the household accurate? Like, it was just a mess. And then like you, Diana, I too collect a lot of annual reports. That to me was my best prospect research and I would just go through it, right? Like, but what are you seeing with the donor list? That's funny, I was just talking to someone this morning who I told them I was coming on the nonprofit show and they were like, oh yeah, I just got this annual report. I just flipped open and was like, where's my name? That was the first thing that they were looking for. That's funny. Well, okay, that, and was that like because they were a large donor or at any level? Because I think that's the other thing you could say, we're just gonna put our big donors and then, you know. Exactly, so they were kind of on the larger side. So they were like, where's my name? Did they put me in the right place? So I thought that was interesting. And again, it's that it's different audiences, right? And, you know, you know your audience best, you know your constituents best and what they look for. I would recommend maybe some of the larger donors who would expect to see their names, keep those in there. There's also, I mean, there's debate around should it be by mail, should it be available on the web? Maybe experiment with both those smaller donors, still put them online. They don't need to print as many pages, but those larger donors, it's important for them to have that visibility. You can still add them there. Yeah, I love that a lot. You know, I've seen a lot of organizations use this as a brochure. There's a QR code that they share. You know, you can download it. You can print it as a PDF, however you want to do. One of my pro tips, so sorry, I'm gonna slide one in here, is to reuse, repurpose and recycle this annual report throughout the year, right? So I want us to move into telling stories because that is one of the best elements to use throughout the year, as well as these charts and these graphs and the icons, right? Like I want this annual report to be designed in a way that it is used every single month. So talk to us about the storytelling in the annual report. I love that. That really falls in line with, we really need to think about our annual reports as a strategic communication piece. This isn't just reporting out, but how can we use this strategically? And that's part of that. How can we reuse this? How can we tell stories with this? And really what it boils down to even numbers, numbers tell a story, but it's not gonna tell the story for you and the donor may not pick up that story on their own. So you need to be telling those stories and then that goes back to so what? What are the numbers telling me? And I love what you said about the QR code too of like, that's the now what portion, right? So the telling stories bridges that so what and now what? What do we do with this? What is your now that you've captured me with the story, what do I do with this? And I think that's kind of a missing piece of thinking about it strategically. What do we want people to do after we've told these stories? Right. I love that you said that because what do we want? Again, impact. Hello, how do we keep moving this forward? And what are the options? Because I think sometimes we do just like, okay, here you go. And then that's it, right? Versus like what Jared said, looking at this is how we're going to move it through, reuse it, repurpose it, present it again for somebody who might have missed it. I think it's just something that a lot of us, and it goes back to your very first point today, we just do it to get it done. It's like a pro forma. We got to get this done. And then we don't think of it as really a tool, which is terrible. Because it takes a lot of work to get this done. It takes a lot of work and it goes back to the, what donors want to hear? Absolutely. And I would say too to this Diana and I'm curious, from the organizational standpoint, how will we use this strategically, right? So what is it our donors want to hear? How do we want to use this strategically? And between the two, there's got to be some kind of a nice blend. If it is a lot, Julia, right? Like you think about it often, board members are involved, the CEO, executive director, if your founder's still involved, like there's so many elements that you can put into the annual report. But how do you do at keeping these top four things in mind that Diana shared here to make it impactful? And that's what's so important. It really is. Absolutely. Diana, what are you seeing in terms of just the general piece? Are you seeing people really gravitate probably because of printing costs and mailing costs to do something more online? Or you mentioned trying a little bit of both. How can you direct us to kind of understand that? It's a good combination, I would say. And a recent trend I've been seeing from this year so far is they'll have a shorter piece that's printed. And then it directs them back to the website because the website is where they can tell those bigger stories, they can add videos if they want that they can't do in print. Their donation form is right there. So I'm seeing a lot of that blending of here's the direct mail piece, directing you back to the online piece. Wow. And I see it too, where it's the multi-page and then it's the front and back of 8.5 by 11. Like here's an infographic of some highlights that we wanna share and what that looks like. Now you brought up a great point videos, right? That's clearly something you cannot put in a printed version. Now I have seen there is an organization here in our community, Julia. They have this beautiful glossy multi-page annual report and there's a QR code alongside a photo and a little subject kind of like to hear more, to read more and then it takes you to a video. And I thought how brilliant because it became interactive. Right, right. Yeah, to hear, you know, Sharice tell her story, scan this QR code. Yeah, and then you have a great image. I'm seeing that more and more. And I do like that word, you know, the interactive aspect of it because if you don't engage with it, at least you know, you know that there's a deeper connectivity point there. And I think that sometimes that's just as powerful is actually launching it. I do too. And I have a curveball question for both of you, right? So, Get out of your catcher's mitt. I'm really curious. When should we do an annual report? Now, I know I've been in this market for a really long time, right? There's your fiscal year as a non-profit that many have the July one start date. A lot of donors, when you think of consumer psychology, we work off of a calendar year. So, my curveball question is, if we're at July one fiscal year, would it be bad if we did a calendar report like a December, January report? Let's, can we talk about this? I'm really curious. Yeah, it's a good question. Jerry, the good questions today, sister. I had my callings. Diana, you take this one. I say do both. I mean, we just talked about repurposing and how you can reuse something. You will get some donors who expect it to come at the end of the calendar year. Again, like me of like, I collect those, or what are they doing and start collecting? The nice thing about going with the fiscal year is you're not competing with a lot of other nonprofits that are doing on a calendar year basis, but I would do both. Interesting. So, Diana, what do you think about like the, if you're doing, like sometimes I'm like, wait a minute, you're sending out the annual report at the end of November, beginning of December, you haven't finished your year. I mean, this is kind of like my thinking. How do you do this? Because you're right. There's so much competition for time, interest, money at the end of the year. How do you, how do we juggle all that? I would do several touches, right? Again, going back to this is a strategic piece and this is just the start of the engagement. So if I send, if I'm sending out my annual report, I don't have all the numbers yet. Maybe my story's not a complete yet, send a follow-up. I remember, I tend to remember those of like, I have several touches of like, oh, they have, I was curious about this story. I wonder how it ended and there's a continuation. Okay. It keeps me engaged. So that's a, I think that's a nice thing to think about in terms of it's not just a one and done. And we talked about that earlier. It's not just a one and done, use it as the start of your engagement and how can you keep it going from there? I think we just revamped the annual report and I'm loving it. You can build into direct mail solicitation where you do a continuation story, an update story, where are they now story? What if we did like, and this is for all of us in question, a six month update, right? So if we did a fiscal and that's July one, then essentially we would do a January one. So it's not quite competing with year end, but it is launching, the new year, but that's still six months in essentially of our fiscal if we're a July one. So I'm getting super nerdy ladies and I hope you're right here with me because what if we did do, right? Like a mid-year report. I love that also, because you can tie that in with your goals. You know, at the start of, or at the end of this fiscal year, you can say, okay, these are our goals for next year and then have a mid-year update. How are we doing? And then tying that into the now what? How can I help? How, why are you telling me this? Are you, is it so I can help you get to the rest of, to your goal for the rest of the year? Yeah, keep the same theme, keep the consistency, keep the same look. Oh, so much good stuff here. Okay, let's bring out that crystal ball because I love talking about the annual report. Diana, we might have asked you this before. This is our go-to question for, you know, conversations that are just rockin' and rollin', but if you had a crystal ball, and I'm sure you do, so let's just pull it out, dust it off, right? What are you predicting for 24? So we're looking, you know, right now, we're, believe it or not, what ladies, we have like a week and a half left of December. What do you think? And not just annual reports, but let's just go broad, you know, what are you predicting in 2024 or what is your crystal ball telling you that we can look forward to that might be a little different, might be a little innovative, like what's coming up for you for 24? I think we're seeing a lot of personalization at scale. So we might be seeing slightly different versions of the same things, whether that's annual reports, whether that's communication, because as we're learning more and more about our donors, we know what resonates with them, and we can kind of group them into those buckets of what's interesting for you, what do I talk about when I'm talking to you? And I think we're gonna see more of that. I'm excited for it. Oh my gosh, you just, okay, I'm excited for that too, and how AI plays a role in that. And that reminds me, Blimerang just sent an email about using AI for donor messages and how you can, you know, steward your donors utilizing AI, that speaks to personalization and customization through and through. So if that's not on everyone's calendars, it should be. I'm sure there's a landing page on Blimerang, but it comes off the press to my email box. I saw that too. And you know, I just heard an amazing article on the National Public Radio about this very thing in the election cycle and how more and more groups are looking at what is the message that resonates with you, the voter, and not, it could be like, not your community or your neighborhood, certainly your political affiliation, it's more you personally, you know, that lady that lives here, that gentleman that lives there. And I think this is kind of part of that whole conversation is how do we, you know, it's, what do they say, scratch the itch, right? And I think that is kind of one of those things that we're gonna be seeing. So it's really interesting that you all are getting in on this and I certainly appreciate it because this is a great conversation point to have. Let me give a shout out. So that's on January the 4th, Thursday, January the 4th, connecting better AI's role in personalizing donor experiences. There it is. So go ahead and register now. Good deal. Thank you, Jared. Well, Diana Otero, Product Marketing Manager for Blumerang. We always love, I feel like when we have you on, we get like the inside scoop, like, you know, that like we would have to wait months for, but we get it from you and you kind of like get us to percolate some new thoughts and approaches. And I would say, Jared, she hasn't been wrong, has she? Since we've had her on. No, I know. I just wanna put you in my pocket and keep you for every day. I know. Well, it's like, we could be like, oh, what does Diana think? Just pull her out. I love that. I would totally go for that. I don't know. We lead kooky lives here. And so you might be like, I'm exhausted. Diana Otero, again, check her out at Blumerang.com. They have amazing things that are going on. I said this in the green room and I think it's really important to witness this again. The wonderful thing about Blumerang, and there are many wonderful things, but one of the things that's the most powerful is that they don't just preach about their products. They talk about the sector as a whole and they try to elevate us. And I think they do a good job at elevating us to what is going on, how we can be more professional, how we can be more efficient. Their company is always growing. Diana, you must be seeing new ideas and new products all the time. Oh, it's super exciting. More than we can wrap our heads around sometimes. I'm sure, I'm sure. Thank you. Thank you. The way in this. And for joining us today, Julia Patrick, always a pleasure to spend my mornings with you. I'm Jarrett Ransome, nonprofit nerd. Again, we wanna say thank you to our amazing sponsors that include Blumerang, American nonprofit academy, fundraising academy at National University, nonprofit thought leader, your part-time controller, staffing boutique, nonprofit nerd, nonprofit tech talk. It's a mouthful, but if you can believe it or not, this list is growing in 24. We are so grateful to have the continued support of these amazing sponsors. Diana, thank you. And I don't think we will see you before the new year. So happy new year to you, my friend. And maybe you will get a white Christmas or a white new year day, right? My fingers are crossed for you and for me as well. And as we wrap up today, as we wrap up every day, we want to end all of you with these words, which is to stay well so you can do well. We'll see you soon. Thanks, Diana.