 There is another question that we really need to answer It's where the money comes from So once you go through the certification process what markets can you access and what do these markets look like and how do you access them? plan vivo is a certification standard For community-based climate and ecosystem service programs So it's largely focused on carbon but also looking at other emerging Ecosystem service markets we focus in communities and small holders with very limited resources and access to resources so we try to make the Standard cost-effective in comparison to other voluntary carbon market standards the need for plan vivo basically Emerged with the understanding that most of us have that these ecosystem services are Provided many of ecosystem services are provided by rural communities But many at many times the reality is that these communities cannot access The markets for ecosystem services, so they've existed a need to link them or give them the opportunity to access international markets For ecosystem services that was the first plan vivo which was developed in the skull LTA project And it's effectively at the local level a sustainable land management plan It is not something with the foundation or the project coordinators dictate. It is Developed by the community members themselves. It is like Richard said a plan developed by community members This is how we would like to sustainably manage our land and what? Finance can we access for these activities? There is an annual reporting system in place Which gives the foundation oversight into the projects activities and which gives a sense of confidence and transparency to buyers There are a range of activities which can be certified under plan vivo and these are broadly categorized under ecosystem restoration Rehabilitation prevention of ecosystem conversion and improved land use management There are key requirements across all into intervention So for instance that the requirement to maintain or enhance biodiversity for tree planting projects For instance plan vivo requires that you can only plant native or naturalized tree species There are strong requirements on the ownership or land use of rights for communities Then the livelihood and socioeconomic impacts that the projects will accrue And that the project should not have any other negative environmental Impacts and that just because you sequester carbon doesn't mean you can deplete the water resources There was a question this morning about how do we ensure that there are safeguards to protect communities from being? for Bracing expectations and not meeting them effectively the model how it works is there is a project coordinator like Pauline is a project coordinator And the coordinator enters into a payments for ecosystem services agreement with the community members and at that point once an agreement is signed The coordinator has to disperse make these payments to communities. That's a requirement So essentially what this means is a project coordinator's try to get forward sales. So once you've got this Sales committed you can see the money in the trust fund. Then you sort of sign Contracts so that sort of safeguards community members from being misled So basically what happens is we have the principle of aggregation So you have many community groups or small holders who engage in activities and the project coordinator aggregates the carbon or ecosystem benefits from these communities and Are issued plan Vivo certificates by us the plan Vivo foundation and it is at that point Where you have a product and you have to sell the product and that's where people like Morton Come into the picture and support These project coordinators to access markets beyond their their immediate markets and mostly these certificates are bought by Organizations as part of their CSR program just to look at these figures about per capita earnings These are rough averages, but it sort of gives because we've been discussing a lot about the millions and billions Which needs to go into the payments for ecosystem service markets But what does it mean in the local level at the micro level at the smallholder level? So this gives you a picture of what a smallholder from sustainable land management on his own land might gain So thousand dollars It might seem not seem very material here But I come from India and if you translate this into Indian rupees, it's quite substantial and it can really Help you change your livelihoods and move into a more sustainable livelihood Model there is often technical capacity constraints There are barriers to implementation like land tenure and so on an upfront cost as I mentioned earlier So we often think that a smallholder Got a small area of land is not relevant in the larger context But by aggregation if they can be a make a meaningful contribution to to climate action Sometimes the non-carbon benefits which these projects accrue in terms of poverty elevation or Other ecosystem service benefit. These are the key messages that buyers look for How can we help secure funding for smallholders and community pests where their climate partners? We help them estimate their greenhouse gas emissions. It could be from their operations. It could be from their products And we try to use carbon offsetting as an incentive to decrease their emissions by introducing renewable energy and Efficiency improvements so that they over time Decrease their footprint Just doing offsetting in Sweden at least now. I think here too is often seen as greenwash So if you don't combine the three strategies, it's Yeah waste a waste of money The great thing about this business model is that very few customers quit once they start reporting and offsetting They rarely quit. So our customers stay on board On average for at least five years, which is great For for us and for the projects and we have also been successful with the food industry I think the food industry they know what's at stake with the diminishing Services coming out of ecosystems. That's where they earn their money So they realize what's at stake and they want to engage in and protecting ecosystem planting trees equestrian carbon So that's a tip for you out there who is gonna set focus on the food industry. You get a good response This is fairly unfortunate the market situation in the world that globally. I mean in Sweden We have a carbon tax and it's I think it hits 90 pounds Which is good, but globally the carbon price is very low Last time I checked it was below 20 20 cents and of course not many projects get off the ground with 20 cents so with this situation Having certificates on the market for 20 cents my Lot of my customers. They call me once in a while and ask. Oh, I got this offer buying certificates for 50 cents or some why should I pay you 10 times more because we're trying to Yeah, we want to sell it at least seven eight dollars or something like that and we have this Tough competition in this bill over from the compliance market The Swedish market is pretty good and nine out of ten people know what carbon offsetting is And this is not the fact in in many other countries So if you go out on the street nine people out of ten know what carbon offsetting is so that's that's good When we asked the same question two years ago with our partner novice who did the survey Only seven out of ten people knew what it was So we follow up with a couple more statements and it turns out that six out of ten people Prefer to buy products and services from companies that show responsibility By reducing their greenhouse gas emissions if I'm gonna elaborate on that I think we can help by Bundling environmental services and co-benefits with carbon in a more attractive way We're we already do that But just listening today. It's it's amazing to learn how how trees really affect and and improve ecosystem and when taking them away. It's so obvious that that That they are very valuable. I don't think it's feasible at this stage At least not in on the Swedish market to sell something else than carbon. I mean you see that it's from Bolivia It's the only thing that we actually can measure today But of course bundling these with the other benefits of trees and forests we can certainly charge a price price premium when it comes to certifications and labels, I mean it's usually it's A lot of investments going into to to these but I think they are very important from a customer's point of view They signal a recognition Often in this. I mean they as in in the plan vivo certification. They include Transparency you can see all the assumptions made and the calculations made and so on so they they create a sense of trust and also I had a call this morning with a wine producer that wants to label their wine as a carbon neutral wine and by doing that they can have Sign on the shelf on system blog, which is the big monopoly in Sweden so that they offer stands out On the shelf so by labeling Hopefully with our carbon offset label there. Yeah, they can sell more wine. It's it's the obvious thing to do in general we have thought too little about sales, so We have to make sure that the projects out there develop a business plan from the outset and really think about who who is the customer that are Willing to buy this. This is not exact science. I mean quantifying Quantifying benefits even quantifying carbon. We think we can measure carbon, but really no It's really hard a couple of the projects do really good selling themselves I think for example the the lima community carbon they have a I mean They truly have a business plan. I think and and diverse Many different resellers and and so on And selling directly I wouldn't have anything La península de osa es una de las regiones de mayor biodiversidad de mesoamérica y desde el 2007 con el aporte financiero de conservación internacional y the nature conservancy se apoya a propietarios de fincas privadas para acceder al programa nacional de pago por servicios ambientales de servicios ambientales ya todo cambió tengo una vida diferente la familia también ya no tengo que estar mal tratando la montaña la cuido Ahi limpia los carriles de la tengo en en buen estado y aparte De la vida cada diaria ha sido diferente se da arena con el apoyo del global conservation fund gcf conservación internacional cei y conservación osa aportaron un millón de dólares al fondo de biodiversidad sostenible para el pago de servicios ambientales y establecimiento de servidumbres ecológicas a largo plazo esto permitirá contribuir a la conservación de áreas clave en el corredor biológico osa el fondo se convierte como en la parte más importante este proceso ya como que construymos toda la estructura inicial pusimos el Carrito a andar pero la gasolina van a ser los fondos que va a generar este feico miso y Because 20 years ago was really the focus of huge de forestation and illegal and There were a lot of environmental problems and now we have a mix of Poor people with large farms, but they can't really do much with them But also at the same time we have a lot of foreigners coming to buy land there And we tend to have the case that it is the the more vulnerable vulnerable people that don't have Property titles and now with all this There's a lot of Problems with the cadastral maps and everything and they can't really access the official program because of these legal restrictions So the people who can actually access a lot of the times is this foreigners who have bought this 30 hectares of Beautiful land in there and they come for the holidays and they qualify for the priority and they qualify for the small property The major part of them are small producers is more than owners And some of them they have this this problem because they don't have they have the property rights They don't have that title then the idea is in the last years for a fee for reform that some of their Requirements to access the program and some long owners can access them if they have they can prove that the land is of them Ah, but We can you know bring to witness the two to people who live around or the people or the people who live in this area They can access a The payment in this new system The idea is to you know to give more flexibility in the system I'm gonna be the heritage in the room is Bidiverse in the ecosystem service Or is it biodiversity, which is where I'm beginning to go Actually a characteristic of an ecosystem which enables an ecosystem to provide services because that Conceptualization has huge impact on the way that we design a payment for ecosystem service It means do we try to conserve biodiversity or do we deserve or we try to promote to conserve? enhance the productivity of an ecosystem Looking at its biodiversity In terms of the benefits and services provided to humanity that difference Actually is vast and I see that in the in the different research communities a different community different development communities That's a debate. We really do have to have we're gonna get this Innovations for payment for ecosystem services. We need to find what is this ecosystem service thing? The last bit was the question. How are you going to scale up so that in the future? We don't need to give you the next 800,000 which is actually the hidden Funding which makes that investment possible. There's a lot of cross subsidization because that was the talk That was the question that we had from a Swedish colleague Donors good or bad Probably both they've been very useful up to this point, but how do we wean? Payments of ecosystem services off the necessity for subsidy from the donor community so that they are self-funding and sustainable and one of the challenges that we face is not only the technical ones, but also the mindset ones of Where we're so used to working with grants that we're not really thinking like business people who need to take strong Business plans, and we're sitting here thinking about how important business plans are but we also need to cultivate that kind of thinking and and and And mentality amongst the communities we're working with and also the local partners that we're working with and any lessons that you have on On how you facilitate that shift in mindset would be very valuable because there's a macro question about the funding But there's also a micro question about about mindsets as well I think I think in so some of these pioneering innovative projects you can you may need to invest a lot more we want to to make the project self-sustaining but On the other I have to to to objections or to Two things that makes it a bit complicated On the one hand the donor funding is sometimes seen by customers as a label and It's like if USAID has contributed to that project or still do it's it's it's a recognition For for me to also get involved as a private private actor and also you should you forbid Projects to to apply for donor funding if they see the possibility for making them better Fair trade was mentioned and in fact fair trade international is working on Developing of fair carbon standard. No and one of the key components, but big discussions is on the minimum price. No, there will be a consultation Period public consultation. I think in May of this year So if you keep on touch on the website of fair trade international, you can comment on that And it's where we launched. Yeah next year. I think in practice No, but fair trade is teaming up with the cold standard what we caught what we increasingly learning is that you know Plus funds are not a panacea. They're not a solution by themselves. They are just enablers they enable to channel down resources to local communities they Allow some transparency on how you manage resources and they can also act as a buffer when there are shorts And in short folks in the in the funding It's clear that we have to really understand the value chain of Ecosystem services who is part of that chain? What are the costs and and benefits that are generated along the value chain and what really trickles down to the level of the communities