 Honra Borrela Molo Diga, Prime Minister BBI. Yes. He has said that it will bring solutions. Also, he has said quite a lot of things, alluding to other people who used to be on one side before, but now they are on a different side. Your thoughts on that? First and foremost, I believe there is no single document in this world that can change the life of a human being. You know what do I mean? They have to be good will, without good will. We have a constitution, first and foremost, being a lawyer, you know. It's a beautiful constitution. The problem is implementation. And a good example is the 2-3 gender rule. Problem is implementation of our constitution. So even if we have a BBI report coming, which the Honra Borrela Odinga said that it will come up in a few days, even if it is released, you believe that it will not have any effect on the Wanjiko. First and foremost, I believe a BBI says all about inclusivity and unity. But let's be honest, it's minus one person. Oh, minus which person? The deputy president. If you saw the launch the last time, you could see his posture. He felt like he was out of place. And when they talk about the BBI, they are writing about Prime Minister will say, Uhuru and I. When, as Junaid calls him and his fellows MPs, when his cows talk, they will say, it's Uhuru and Rayla. When the likes of Muradi talk, they will say it's Uhuru and Rayla. So where you live, the deputy president, that's the problem. Because we're talking about inclusivity. One nation, if you saw, there was a photo that went viral over the weekend. The photo that they were together with the deputy president. They were saying hi to each other, they sat next to each other, they were talking. That's the Kenya we want. You realize. But you believe that the BBI is not as inclusive as... It's not. Because some would feel it's not. They feel like they are left out. It's more or less like a secret. If I ask you today what's the BBI, won't you tell me? The report has not been released. We cannot say anything. George, is it inclusive? Ram, this is an initiative. And this initiative is supposed to build bridges. And I was once told that before you get to the river, you might not know how to cross that river. But when you get to the river and you find it full, now you think about the bridge. Look at this nation. This nation has underwent a lot of bloodshed. And the head of the state, and the former prime minister, are now coming together. And you see, Ram, when you talk about the head of the state, you cannot talk about the presidency without the deputy. And I feel it's inclusive. And we are debating a document that we don't know what it contains. But what we know is that it has a good will, that it is going to build the bridges, things that have been torn out. It is now going to mend this country to be a unified country. Now, let's take a look at this tweet by the senator of El Greo Marakwet, honorable senator Kipchumba Murkomen. Your thoughts on this. So that tweet is coming up on your screen there. All right, so it's saying to all who are opposed to the hustlers, I have recommended some books for you. Minola leave you with the following quote from President Abraham Lincoln. Things may come to those who wait, but only the things left by those who hustle. Your response? Ram hustling in itself has got different meanings. When you give me a good job, I'll still be hustling. I'll be making sure that whatever I do, I do with a lot of authority, I do with my mind. But you see, when you talk about hustling to be like just a narrative, then we are not going to make something of it. What about this? If the BBI referendum will mirror the divisive agenda we have witnessed in the Senate, if it shall be reversing the gains on devolution or increasing layers of governance or taking services far from the people, I will oppose it and I'm ready to lead the no campaigns. No need. Right, fully so. Like the key word there is divisive agenda. Divisive agenda. That's what I'm talking about. If we're talking about harmonization, if we're talking about unity, unity, we can't be united minus him. We're talking about we want to build something. What if he secludes himself? That's the question. If he secludes himself, have you reached out to him? He has concerns. He has concerns. And what do I say that? If we go to deputy president, he's set on being the president, for example, that's number one. Then he hears people saying the likes of Moraide who are going to tell you that Rayla Molodinga's time is now. You hear totally saying deputy will not be on the ballot. You're bound to feel aggrieved and you're bound to seclude yourself as well. Because he feels like the BBI is more or less a caucus of all those who are against it. But if you check, it's more or less like us versus him, which he kind of likes, if you can tell. And who's us? Who's us? More or less their political class because it's not you and I. Because the BBI, if we're going to be honest with ourselves, it's not about Kenyans. It is not about Kenyans. We agree with that. BBI is about Kenyans because we are now trying to make sure that the hoods that were there are healed. Whose hoods? The Kenyans. And saying that it is not for Kenyans, that it's a hoax. Onrabo Rayla said that the BBI holds the solution to problems facing the youths like unemployment. How? Yes. That's the question, how? Number one, we have realized that this nation, the youths are not employed because of some reasons. Some of the reasons are, these youths are aligned to some political affiliates. But we are trying to build a nation where when I see Nudin, I see Nudin as a Kenyan, I'm not seeing Nudin as somebody who subscribes to Asla. Now look at this. When the country had somebody who had also majority votes, but is not in parliament, you know, this person will keep on opposing the parliament every time. And even the good things that the person is supposed to support, the person will see that I will not initiate it, I will oppose it. And that's what I mean, the opposition has ever been seen to be opposition. Whether they have good things or not. But we are now trying to have a country where everyone's opinion is going to be included. And does this reflect on the rate of employment in the nation, especially for the youth? You know, when we talk about the rate of employment, number one, are we even able to employ those who have graduated? If not, what is the reason? The reason could be these particular positions are being held by some people who are above the age of employment. And we are going to look about this. Then again, the BBI will also look at is said because you are in power that your members are so much employed in government. And we are now going to look at where we can strike a balance. Let me come to Nuri. What I believe is, when you talk about ethnicity like he said, we are different tribes, the problem is not with the Kenyans. Who has instilled that in us? It's the leadership. Now, who has the problem? It's the leadership itself. They have decided to divide us into communities or ethnicities so that they can use that as a muscle in their political gimmicks. Now, when I say that BBI is not about Kenyans, this is what I mean. When you're told that you need a regional government, you're told you need a prime minister and two deputies. And you're told you need two deputy presidents. You ask yourself, once we have right now, let's talk about employment. Let's go there. Forget even ethnicity. Let's go to Kisumu. For example, the governor is... Are you Professor Anyang Nyong? Yes. Most people in Kisumu are lowest, right? Is unemployment there? It is there. Is there a nationwide? It is a countrywide thing. An employment issue. It's not about... The BBI can never hand out employment. If they launch it the day they do, there is no way they'll be working in town. Shiga kazi. They will never. They can never do that. It's all about good will. If today the government decides we want to empower the young men and women, ram it always, let me tell you how even. Let me even give them a secret since... More or less, they are sleeping. The easiest way to employ young people is via skills, via talent. Look at the developers. If you are a fan of football, look at that. If you are a fan of basketball, look at that. If they invest in sports and culture, we would be very far. But what do we have? Shinani, Gans and gimmicks. And you come and tell me a document will solve my issues. It will never. So long as... Even if you have the most beautiful document, but without the proper good will, it will never solve. That is... But everything starts from a document, a policy. Lost, true. But he who comes for equity, like I said, comes to clean hands. You're coming for equity and you're saying... Oh, we want to make Kenya well, but wait. First of all, we need the regional government. First. So you take care of your interest. Clearly it's not about me. Listen. It's not about me. First of all, we need the regional governor. For what? Yes, you said, oh wait. Also need the prime minister and two deputies. For what? They would help Kenyans. So first and foremost... What happened? One thing that I must admit is that Nudini is saying that the problem of unemployment is here and there. It is not just concentrated in a given area. But again, I want to also say that the issue of unemployment is not with maybe a policy or anything. The issue of unemployment has been orchestrated by the leaders themselves. But again, this document and Ramu said it that most of the good things will have some documents to support them, some policies to help in the framework, in running them. And now this document is going to ensure that for example the 30% procurement. The 30% procurement that was left for the youth. What has happened? It is not that it is not there. The only thing is that we changed the forest but we did not change the monkeys. So the monkeys are continuing doing the same things they used to do. Inasmuch as I admit that it is also going to create a bigger government. But again, let us look at this run. You get 6 million votes. Somebody gets 8 million votes and then you say Winna takes it all. Does it happen? So you're saying we're changing the forest but not changing the monkeys. That is what we have been doing. But a monkey can not be led by a snake? Yes. Ram, let me tell you something Ram. A monkey can not be led by a demon. A monkey can not be led by a demon. But now who is the snake? Ram, let me say something Ram. You know, first and foremost, first and foremost Ram, you know, he's talking about Winna takes it all. Ideally, when you become the president in Jobin Suwonin, you're the president of the public of Kenya, you're the president of Nairobi, Kiyambu and Rotavu, right? That is where I'm talking about the good will, you realize. So if you say you will preserve, uphold and follow the constitution and the constitution is all about unity, you know, whatever Bibi is trying to do, it's then the constitution. Now, time is around the corner. So let's head over to Twitter and see what people are saying. The hashtag is the stand ke at Y24 channel at Ram Maguko. This is a consortia, consortia racial and this is Kenya. Only Kano dominated the political arena for quite some time. Since then, no political party has ever sponsored a president for more than one term. You believe it is on its death bed, is it? To some extent. To some extent. To some extent. But Kano has lived so many parties. Now, this is the reason why I say to some extent you could realize that the same people who are in Jubilee are now going to build this particular nation through the Bibi. Nudin looks like he disagrees with you. Why do you say it is so sad to see how young people cannot take a stand and say enough is enough? Why can they just sit back and get themselves involved in other empowerment activities? If they wait on politicians, it may take quite some time for the promises to be fulfilled. Exactly. This is what I was talking about. I said empowerment will never be handled over to you. It's not like a suite. You have to take it. The Muranga issue has been disturbing me mentally. The narrations from both sides are something every Kenyan should digest and think twice. None of the sides is speaking with sobriety. The political temperature is too high and I wonder how can we reduce these temperatures? Okay, do you have one more tweet? Do you have any other? All right, I think let's bring that to an end. I'd like to give you each just a minute to have a final word about how you think. Still, you gave your stand about how a political party, how a ruling political party needs to take the country to the next level. Looking at how Jubilee is, will it take the nation to the next level in terms of how positive the nation needs to be? I don't believe that Jubilee will take us anywhere. Let's be honest with each other here. It's been eight years. You doubt it? I doubt it because they talk about unity, unity in the entire country, but charity begins at home. You can't be keen in other people's children while your child is a thief inside your house. They need to sort their mess. So they need to lead by example? Yes, they need to sort their mess and they need to take care of whatever is happening in the house and not make it spill over because we are getting to a position where the youth are going to be used to fight towards they know nothing about. They are going to be used for issues they know nothing about. And that is what I'm saying. We as young men and women in this country need to know where we draw the line. Thank you. I want to admit that to some extent seeing the things that are happening now, it might not take us to the next level. But again, also advocate for sobriety and people to sit down, reason together. But again, my stand as a youth should be that the youths should not accept the cheap things and propagate violence. They have got a lot to do that will make them be a people of a future Kenya. If we allow them to be used by the politicians or if they allow themselves to be used by the politicians then we will be talking about youths being leaders of tomorrow all the time and that tomorrow we'll never come. Thank you very much. That is George Kennedy and Nurdinika Guy joining us tonight. Make sure that you keep tweeting the hashtag is the stand KE at Ramaguko at Y254 Channel. This conversation still continues. Remember, a day in politics, a lot can happen. See you again next week. That is all the time we had tonight. My name is Ramaguko. Keep it Y254. This is the stand.