 We think too much in silos. So the fitness guy thinks in terms of fitness as so and the food Guys our girl thinks in terms of food and then I think of sleep So in the meditation things of meditation. I Actually think has so they are so interconnected and so that we need to have at least a few people thinking on What if we take that more a helicopter view or more a holistic approach as? So that is actually has so tagging all of these things are at least connecting the dots Hey, everyone. Welcome to simulation. I'm your host Alan Sakyan. We're on site at the beautiful transformative technology conference for a second annual partnership with them We are now going to be talking about circadian rhythms and much more. We have dr. Roy Raymond joining us on the show Hi, Roy. Hi. Thank you for inviting me over here. We're a super pump to talk about this subject with you It's such a crucial one. It's a crucial one so has so we in this kind of era has so that nobody gets enough sleep So that economic machinery is pumping. It's it's it's all about has so being in the present and being alive And doing the things you want to has so and and and the fear of missing out of everything Yeah, well sleep is actually the greater thing you can do. Yeah. Yeah, I'm so pumped to talk about this with you This is extremely important and actually Matt Walker has been a huge influence in my life a lot in this field I love Matt as much work together has in the past So he's a great advocate for sleep as well He really brought a topic to a level that everybody can understand and knows that it's important And Satchin Panda's also done a great job in this field as well Yes, these guys are huge and I'm pumped to talk to you about it, Roy Let's some let's jump in though with one of our favorite questions that we like asking our guests Are we really all one? It's a very interesting question as so because as so I have a more biological background and from a biological perspective as so I Should say like yes as so we build of the same material. So we should be one But as so also from all the research that I've been doing in the past So I know that a lot of things that we try for instance to help sleep people sleep better Work for some and don't work for others So I think so if you would come back as so do this great planet Earth has so in a thousand years You would be kind of shocked of how we now look as how we looked in in this era on how the human being is because We know only a tiny tiny piece as so what we are be we are as a human being so Yes, we're one. No, we're not one Wait, when's where's the not one part? So the not one you can see it as as totally different kind of skews from has build of the same material And so I can have a green car and blue car and a car that's running on so an electrical power and gas power So and I think that's how so if you use that kind of analogy and so you can have silly indifferent card But they are all cars and so and this is the same actually I think for human being we are wired differently So we have all a brain, but all brains are wired different differently So I don't think the same way as you are doing and so and that's also where the experience comes in and so Nurture comes in so building building blocks are the same But then in the end has so we all end up as individuals. So and then we're no no longer one Okay, interesting. So it's kind of like the we are all one from the very Source or from God or creation or Big Bang or whatever you want to call it And then there's this Complexity that evolves over time. Although it's the same building blocks It is these different subjective first-person experiences that we have as nerve endings of this creation Yeah, so so it's and it's it's it's already had so it's already starting in the womb has so where all those connections are created So so same material, but sometimes different wiring and sometimes different So experience that's creators to have to be the unique individuals that we are so then but at the same time even if you have an experience That is maybe some sort of a very impactful experience very upstream in your life Some sort of maybe a traumatic experience that you later find was a very that had a beautiful treasure on the other side of it Although I may not have had that same experience in in my life being still one in the sense that as a Collective as a unity we had that experience. We collectively had your experience Yeah, so but I also believe that has so unless you got that real experience So it's very hard to really kind of so have that insight and that's empathy has so what's really going on Yeah, so because you need that experience to actually see what happens to you But it comes back to a great philosophical question. Have for instance And so we all say that this is blue as to the color here, but You might perceive as so it is being green, but we label it as blue I do not know whether you see it as the same blue as I do And so of course our measurements and we can do that right now But again, I think if we come back has so to this earth has so and see the state of science And what we know about the you the complex a human being and so it will be totally different so What do you think's the purpose of creation? The purpose of creation You need to explain to be a little bit more has so what do you mean by by creation or what is the purpose of source or of this reality that we're in oh That's a very philosophical one for me at what I said as I'm very has so biological had determined so I think that's for everybody has on earth has so will have their kind of different kind of purpose or different kind of meaning in life as so and I Always get a little bit scared everything of those things as we're like Oh, so you have a life and it starts and it ends and what will be had what was before it and what will be as so After we die, I do not know as so that's also why I want to live in the present and live in the now Because I can go across the street or might be a driver. He might hit me and then has so what's next? I do not know. So I I hope that the purpose of life is So that and so you live and you learn and you might take that has so to a next level But being a scientist as so I have no evidence and so that there will be a next level So it's very hard for me also from a rational aspect aspect. You kind of think there would be and Then what about these states of interconnectedness that you maybe have felt or ego death or Unconditional love or deep presence. Tell us about your experiences with that. Yeah, so I Always it's again. It's I have a lot of experience with those kind of moments that you has so really Think hey, there should be an extra power has so that made this happen So but it's interesting how kind of restricted and you are has so Being wired as you are by education has so so to kind of just kind of put it aside So like hey, I cannot rationalize it. So you kind of put it aside while actually has so it would be interesting to dive a little bit deeper into it, but Probably have because I also know we don't have the tools I did this moment to assess those kind of things So that there come the recent rational guy again has so popping up has so let's put it aside because for me And so as a biologic biological has so guidance think everything is determined in biology I hope I can return to this planet in 500 years so that I can see what tools we have to kind of See and understand all the things that I cannot explain right now and so for instance one of those great moments and there was definitely a purpose to it and so I I was going to travel to a very big city. I didn't know as I was just there. I think for a conference So and I met one of my old friends from high school Which he had no reason to be there. So but we reconnected again And so and it's a big city. So what are the odds and the chances that you actually in a big city run into each other? So these are minimal and so and that's the things that I think okay This is something there is a meaning to that one. I do not know I also do not know who controls it, but but it's telling me something and I think as so that's really true But we really at this moment don't have the tools like What made it happen? Why did it happen? And I know what the meaning was because now we're connected again and we lost that connection And there was a great reason to be connected again because we had a great connection in the past We just lost because life took a different term So then something that's crucial as we figure out what were uniquely blueprinted for what our gifts are that we want to bring to the world As we go through that process something that we have to get right is the way that we have this process of self-love self-appreciation and A great big part of that is how we sleep how we eat how we exercise how we nourish our Emotions how we could show up in the world to bring these gifts forward What are some of the things that you've been noticing about? Circadian rhythms about how the economic machinery affects circadian rhythms about how sleep can actually help bring these beautiful gifts into the world Yes, it's it's I think it's great that you already bring it up You need to see it in a cultural perspective So the biology is the same and so the biology is a very old ancient clock So that's called the biological clock. It has been entrained has so thousand and thousand over thousand years So like light input is important So to kind of set your body has her to sync with the day night circle has and then hey We should sleep at night. So that's a great system and that system kind of loves regularity. Yes, so and You definitely seen in the Western societies That people don't listen don't follow that anymore. So They're not listening to their body anymore. Yeah, so when they feel tired, they grab a coke or a coffee Yeah, so actually the body is telling you you should take rest. Yeah, and so we set alarm clocks at stupid times Yeah, so we even have things like a daylight savings times Which just makes sure that your body runs for the economy for the and that's kind of stupid because we have been blueprinted has so to Listen to our bodies to wake up. So when the sun rises and when it gets a little bit warmer to sleep when it gets a little bit cooler at night has so And we ignoring all those kind of signs at this moment So if you go to cultures has so where has so the economic pressure has so and the lifestyle is not that busy You see totally different patterns. Yes, so you see the same kind of basic patterns But you see not that people are trying to kind of has so Put in everything into the daily life and being awake and not missing out has on anything Yes, so the fear of missing out has so it's you need to be a good spouse You need to be has so great and I have a professional output. You need to spend time with your spouse So your kids should have you to have yourself time. I need to need to watch a movie. There is Netflix so you need to put that all has so in 24 hours and I always said like wouldn't it be great if the day would start with sleep Because if it would start with sleep, you can say, okay, let's schedule eight hours for sleep and Then let's see what the rest is but now Sleep is at the end of the day. So we are procrastinating Procrastinating has her like, oh, no, I need to do that email. Oh, no, I need to spend some quality time I need to call my mom has so because you need to check all those boxes and Maybe has our body has so we'll get used to that in a few thousand years because We evolve Bodies that don't have a revolution. They have an evolution evolution takes time Yeah, so I do not know whether it happens. I will not be around I don't know whether I want to be around as so if sleep was not an important Evolution would already have taken care of it that we only would need sleep for four hours, but that didn't happen Wow, yeah, this is so crucial. It's that sleep as part of evolution has Come with this really beautiful input of you get light source You get this process of like saving what's being stored in the nervous system in this memory of this vehicle You get this light and night cycle that happens Night and day cycle that happens with the sun that the biological machinery sort of follows and then like you described It's as though then in today's modern day now It went from having a first eight hours No matter what always scheduled for sleep in the other 16 hours as to whatever to now Let's do as much productive work as possible now with all of the different things that we have to check in and then if I only Sleep for six hours. No problem. Just sacrifice to sleep But sleep is so important for our body to actually be in a state of peak wellness and peak ability To actually be productive. It's actually more detrimental to have less sleep. It's less productive the next day It's ridiculous You're kind of repeating that so what my first mentor said when I did my first step in in a PhD And so he said like Roy don't stay late and it's kind of interesting at you kind of here And of course that was Europe and so he said don't stay late because whatever you do has after six o'clock So you can do tomorrow has so probably in a quarter of the time And so you're actually wasting time has so to try to be productive as so till very late It's just a waste of time your create your your body needs to have a recovery and leisure time And so to everything what you have learned throughout the day and there are great Experiments so that have been done that people try to solve a puzzle a very complex one They didn't do so they slept a night and then the morning They were given a puzzle again and they solved it within five minutes because The insight that was created has so throughout the night has because that's what your brain is doing. It's kind of All the information that you have processed throughout the night has so taking away all the things that are not necessarily And then organizing them and then connecting the dots so learning happens throughout the night Emotional processing happens during sleep. So it's not only bodily recovery It's a lot of mental has an emotional processing that happens as well. Your brain is pretty busy when you're asleep. Oh Yeah, oh so damn busy and those the sleep spindles are so interesting Yeah, I know those there's they're so fascinating and just like the body's ability to like click the save button on all of the previous Data that you got the day. I love how I'm like you said that your It was your prophet. It was your professor that so it's so interesting that if you stay late that you're gonna take Four times potentially more time Doing the material that you would just the next day in your peak state. Yeah, that's such important Feedback actually so the main thing is that I also say that how to college students has so if you really want to learn Has so things and has so everything that you have so takes your in class and Really take this has so has something in your backpack for the rest of your life You need to has so be very well rested when you go through all the study materials And then you need to get into your hands for your bed early and then sleep on it So what you see a lot of students doing has so they having a lot of fun I mean rush it through the book and the textbook don't sleep as so at all four hours before the exam So it doesn't transfer to long-term memory has so it's it just then again. It's a waste of time So and that says so sleep has not been valued and has so also because we really didn't know a lot about the function of sleep And because sleep science is very young as I think it started I think back in the in the 50 says so over the 20th century that we could kind of quantify sleep and of course the Greek Philosophers already had great thoughts about sleep and what sleep would do and they said like hey And so as so if you're if your body is warm as so then it's alive and when the temperature is cold Then it's dead and somewhere in between has so that sleep and because your body drops as so in temperature throughout the night And so and they saw they already had kind of great things But he didn't describe it has so in a way that has so is as good it is right now because we now have new technology So to kind of capture what's really happening And that's again come I want to come back to this planet in 300 years and see what technology can do then Okay, I'm so so curious now like what can we do like what a sleep score labs doing? Yeah, so we are Kind of giving has so a sleep lab has so to the end consumer or to the people in the world and so We see that there is a big problem And so two-third of the people have reporting that they don't had a great night as so at least a few times in a week So 50% of the people are sorry It's 50% of the people don't hitting the required minimum of seven hours And so and we were thinking it Kind of as the way that you think about obesity and being overweight Yeah, so we want to give you a tool and so that tool is so that what is what we created? So people have a skill in their bathroom so they can actually has so be on the scale and see okay Now I need to go for a week for her so having salads for lunch has so and skip the fries and the burgers so You didn't have even a doctor didn't have the tools so the medical doctor didn't have the tool to measure sleep As on the fly you had to go to a lap and then they put all kinds of wires on your brain And you had to sleep in a hospital bed, which is not a natural situation at all So so that was step one So giving tools to people that they can measure sleep and also making a very simple matrix So because in the comfort of their homes in the comfort of the home and then they get metrics on their own sleep So and we we wanted to try to keep it as simple as so that you see the weight on your weighting skills I'm not saying like hey It was 20% Ram and 15% deep so and that whole list of that sleep doctors normally give you We just have a sleep score that kind of has so calculates all those important elements So it's a score from zero to 100 and over time you kind of learn what what a sleep score is That's good for you and for me I personally know I'm a good sleeper But if for some reasons I hit 75 three nights in a row Then I need to take care the next day has so and get some extra see which is like the salad instead of the burger Yeah, yeah, so then I go for the salad for the sleep But we also kind of notice that Which in some cases is kind of like just not like either going a bit really early or just making it so that Maybe you're not waking up to an alarm in the morning Maybe you're really just letting your body naturally awake. Yeah, I'm when it's a well-rested. Yeah for a body It's bad for a body for all process consistency is best So that's consistency is also a very good life So if you would go to bed so at the same time every day Wake up at the same time every day have your breakfast at the same time And so have your lunch at the same time have them even your beer at the same time every day and your coffee Body would love that because they the body doesn't need to adjust anything. They're like, oh, it runs on my schedule. That's great And so but luckily we're human being but the body also wants Dynamism as well. It wants both on a day on a different on a different level Yeah, for instance, there are hardly any animals within Somnia Why they go to sleep when they feel tired when they feel tired not not I need to finish this report I need a coke or a coffee. Yes. So or hey, yeah, that other Netflix episode. I would love to see it Oh, that was a great cliffhanger. Let's do the other one So so and so that's what has so and so sometimes they might find themselves in an area in nature where they may Be unfamiliar and then they can't necessarily go to sleep because of danger and they have to go Only if they're in danger So what you're not saying is actually has so we putting our bodies in a dangerous state every single time. Yeah Because it's like, oh, you're saying to your body. I cannot sleep the body in terms of there is a reason that I can't Yeah, so yeah, interesting. So we're actually triggering our physiology Against what it's trying to get us to do and through that process We're actually causing some sort of physiological confusion of what's going on because there's actually nothing to fucking be in danger about What's so ever in these buildings? But even your biological clock has so has so who who gets the information has so of the light And so with has so the new artificial light Oh my gosh, yeah things like oh, it's still awake. It's still awake. It's still daytime. It's still daytime time. Yeah Because the biological clock sends them to all the other clocks has so in the body. Hey, it's still daytime Screen time especially now too. Oh my gosh. So and that's that says so what kind of it's not how it has been designed So even when the Suns goes down at like five or six o'clock sometimes during PM right now during the winter Holy cow. Now we're watching screens for like six or seven more hours past the Sun going down I need to ask you about this because you started teaching us about what you're doing I just want to I just want to um see so Am I wearing is this a wearable? No, yeah, how so what do I do? Coming back has so what we want in the end had just like you do weight management and be on your scale every single day We won't love to actually has so with a simple matrix had to measure your sleep And we make it relatively easy because we also believe that sleep is all about comfort So you don't want to have devices in your bed or on your wrist or on your hat So we have a device that you just put next to your head so to on your nightstand So it is totally contact glass. So we have a device has so but since last year We also launched has so something that you can use just on your iPhone How does this work the the device on the smartphone or yeah, so So does it measure my sleep if it yeah, so that's where a lot of has so a signal processing and knowledge about sleep comes in So what really happens is it has to watch me? No, because hey, sorry, you don't want to be watching your bathroom So has or even be listened to as some other company So now what we do has so it's it's the device is sending a radar wave a very low-energy radar wave Lower than Bluetooth and so in that bounces of your body So and by doing so we measure your full breathing pattern So in your full motion pattern All the different sleep stages So have slightly different breathing patterns and motion patterns. So with a lot of algorithm work We actually a sleep score lapses. So I have an algorithm and we validated that against the gold standard and we're doing has so very good And so so that's what we did wheels. So phones can actually Propagate out radar signals. So that's the hardware hardware device And then we find out like a lot of people are actually not willing to pay has so 150 bucks for sleep measurement So so that's why last year we launched sonar technology has so from phone So what we do is we use actually the speaker and the microphone off has so the smartphone So the smartphone sends out has so hardly noticeable and for most people not noticeable Notable sound waves as so that all again bounces back off your body back to has so the microphone And we get the same signals for has so breeding emotion wait, okay, so a an unnoticeable Frequency of sound is emitted from the device and then it bounces off of me and you can measure my full Breeding rate my breathing rate. So So you actually what you measure is the movement of your body So you measure the movement of your chest cavity has so in the gross movement where you're tossing and turning so and Then there's a a way for you to be able to tell how Long I'm sleeping. How well I'm sleeping Yeah, because all those different has so the the differences in movement and the differences in breeding has so relate to different sleep Stages light sleep and deep sleep and REM sleep So and then we actually in the end can see like, okay, so you spend as Dead amount of time it took you so many minutes to fall asleep So again, we think that's great information for the doctor and maybe for the has sort of biohackers So but for the end consumer, we just presented as a single number so that there's something easy You kind of know like, okay for me. Hey D is my number and I go for it So I'm just doing something as simple as downloading the sleep score labs app Yeah, yeah, it's as simple as that and you put her your phone next to your bed has so has so at night But one thing I want to have so ads We don't believe that has so it's all about a measurement and the measurement should be great but people are looking actually has so into Things that really can improve your sleep So and we in the sleep field called it as the so-called so what problem? So now you know your sleep score What should you do most simple just go to bed and sleep actually get more sleep Is that not the most simple thing? It's the most simple thing But hey if you were taking for instance four cups of coffee after four o'clock, that's horrible That will be hard and a lot of people actually do not know so we give them a full toolbox Yes, so as well like so we say like, okay, this is what we see in your data And so and this is given has so what we see in your data that we think at this moment will work best for you to improve your sleep And so and we connect you to either that kind of tips and tricks based on your personal sleep or we even connect you to products and the great thing with the products is that has so we Curated them and we even validate them. We do a lot of studies for manufacturers and kind of Showing them that their products are evidence-based as so they say like hey We think it or we believe it improved sleep and we say show us the data And if they don't have it we say, okay, we can provide you that data So we do studies that you can actually say as so hey it has been tested by sleep collapse And sleep's collapse has shown that it's really has so improving sleep of people. Yeah, because Unfortunately in the world of sleep, there's a lot of snake all so that people can buy Yeah, yeah, okay, so this is great the hardware partners one or just other partners is very interesting for improving sleep I like that a lot and being able to prove with your sleep score that if they do or not And then just in general I just I'm finding of course all this stuff with digital signal processing Actually being able to propagate out the sound wave and gain some sort of an understanding of what's being you're calibrating back from that process That parts nuts and then is it is it pretty like Clear for you guys to see whether or not I'm Actually getting like eight hours of sleep compared to six like it's very clear for you guys to show a sleep score That's significantly higher for someone that's sleeping eight hours. Like it's it's like it's that clear Yeah, so because we the the data that we kind of has so has our estimate from all our signals Has been validated against the clinical way of of of measuring sleep The great thing is so and that's what we do then in the back end as well Is we now collecting the huge data set of people sleeping in their real home situation? And so and I was kind of shocked when I first saw I had that kind of data Because it's kind of so different than from all the things that we know from Small studies that have been carried out by sleep researchers in the hospital settings or in the laboratory settings because People sleep differently in home situation than they sleep in a lab Yeah, and so and that's where we also want to kind of progress as so the knowledge in sleep So getting a lot of data on how people actually sleep as so because you might have a partner your partner snores So that impacts you that partner will never be with you in a sleep study or in so in any kind of study because that's not how The scientific or the academic model of doing studies works and in the end We have that data and then most most likely context data So we know that you sleep with a partner has so that snores and of course They need to consent has so that we get an information So it's not that we had just collected all the information has so by just opening a microphone That's not what we're doing has so We we don't want to so but we building this kind of new data set of what we call In science terms ecologically valid has so data. So it's really measured in the field So with real people in real daily life or daily night situations I I really thought what you were saying was so interesting also about how When we sleep next to a partner that also drastically changes How we sleep literally next to another like human being in the same bed Some people go and choose to sleep in different rooms, even though they're maybe in the relationship And then there's this big data set that you have what others like first Like let's hear your thoughts about like sleeping in different areas And then also I'd like to hear thoughts about like what you can also do with data on people that are that are Like longitudinally that you're improving Their sleep and then where other insights can come from data Yes, actually has two questions. So let's start with the first one Sleeping together. So it's again, interestingly A very understudied topic because most of the sleep researchers has so Have a single person in the bed when they study. Yeah, so what we kind of know That I think there have been two studies in the past that really were measuring brain waves and it was kind of Inconclusive and so one study said like, okay Yeah, so the partner was the men were sleeping better than the women in general And so another study I think saw that there was some sinking in this in the sleep stages So But I would say it's kind of inconclusive A big factor though is that has so people find just has so it's their feeling that they find more safe As so being close to someone else And so it's the present of so it's presence of someone else Both in the mind, but also you you feel it physically because it's the the warm that you radiate That's that cuddling effect. Yeah, so and you see it has also in a lot of of mammals And so they sleep together and it's not only because of energy conversation conversation conservation energy conservation and Um, uh, temperature has our energy yeah energy conversation, but also Because they feel safe together. Yeah, so that's that's that's that's the mental part. So but if You're a light sleeper and your partner snores or You're a light sleeper and very unrestful and your partner has so is or if you're just on different Like you go to bed two hours later and wake up two hours later. Yeah So then as it might be actually a good as idea has so to just has so sleep for a few nights at least has so separate has so So you just have two bedrooms and has so me being up late at night is not affecting them them waking up early He's not affecting me. Yeah. So has some people also that's anecdotal. I say that hey, it had also Great impact on their sex life because then it was really special has on the moment that they went to bed To get her again. So yeah, that's interesting too. Interesting. Um, how about Feedback, I know I know the whole data point. Um, maybe we can get to it Just given the amount of other questions that I think, um, uh, I that I would like answered there's um, um This one you were giving this example of stop drinking coffee after like four o'clock right stuff like that Or another one is um, you know, people say are like don't eat this last meal Like midnight, you know, like yeah, so give us give us these examples for Yes, the the the great thing is so you should see that as kind of general guidelines So and it might work for you and it doesn't might not work for some somebody else But it's and I think that's where we also need to think of has so there are a lot of guidelines So if you really look into the literature, if there is there is there any empirical has to evidence that is really works So so it's it's really limited. So again, it's not that well studied. Uh, why because it's very hard to study. So, um, But for me, for instance, I know that I'm relatively caffeine insensitive So I can have that double shot of espresso at 10 o'clock at night So and I sleep very well. It has to do has so with The constellation of my dna and my caffeine sensitivity other people Might not so so the general rule is to be on the safe side Don't drink caffeine has so after three o'clock has so avoid spicy meals has so has because spicy meals can Do things that actually keep you awake and keep your body on a kind kind of higher arousal level But you can imagine that if you were raised has so in having a jalapeno pepper in every single meal You'll be fine. You will be fine. So Okay, okay, and then um, let's talk about all of the data. So then what do you how many people are using sleep score labs right now? yes, so has so in Interesting has so that's kind of has so a business confidential information because we have a lot of properties competitors, but as so Our data set and our analysis easily has so go over as so are using 5000 people has are then spending has so a million nights So rather than doing a study has so where you say like hey And so I have 20 people has and have two nights And I think that's where the difference is so for instance if I do an intervention study in an academia setting So they measure you one night. So then you take so the intervention then you come back and they measure you another night That night might be a very bad night for you for all the other things has so that might it might be have happening in your life and so and I always use a very old-fashioned example like You know those old computers with those dip switches So yeah to has so set is a switch on on or off on your main board. So sleep is like Having 100 dip switches And whenever 51 are kind of set to a favor have for sleep then you will sleep better And it can be it can be the caffeine and the fight that you had with your partner And the email that you got from your boss Oh, yeah, all pull a single has so laying there trying to sleep and and you're thinking about overly thinking about that issue And that's the great thing because our technology is not invasive And you don't need to have the the wires on your head has so and somebody to apply those We get data night after night after night after night So we can see slow processes and changes as are evolving What's the proximity that the device has to be next to me? It's a it's arm length an arm length away Yeah, okay, and can it be in like airplane mode and still work? Yeah, so that's a great thing So we collect all the data on your phone and then just in the end So it needs a wi-fi connection, but it can be run on a great But it can run an airplane mode. Some people just don't want even yeah I want it just in airplane mode at night or even off powered off the new thing Yeah, so yeah, so maybe I pay even just like $20 for just the device that can do what sleep score labs does Rather than I'll also have to have my phone on yeah next. Yeah, so that's another one technically So but the device is not was not designed for it But technically you can start has so the device with the phone and bring your phone to another room And so then bring in the phone the next day. So and then you don't have any phone next to you And so yeah, it's that the device the phone for us has so with the device is just the control panel so um another question that I have is that um The future of like productivity and the economic machinery But also our focus on our well-being here at trans tech this type of stuff Where are all of these things converging? How do we actually have true transformations and consciousness and wanting to become More healthy and have better well-being but also um a deal with the pressures of the economic machinery that are happening What is then like the future of sleep? Yeah, I think it's I would even call it a little bit has so broader. What is the future of life of life? So has so I think at this moment has so that's why I love conferences like this We think too much in silos So the fitness guy thinks in terms of fitness has so and the food Guys our girl thinks in terms of food and then I think of sleep So in the meditation things of meditation I actually think has so they are so interconnected And so that we need to have at least a few people thinking on What if we take the more helicopter view or more holistic approach? And so that is actually has so tagging all of these things or at least connecting the dots and because Very simple thing You might want to have a new year New year's resolution and you say I want to have so be in better fitness So or has I want to lose weight? So I as a sleep guy come in and say like hey, did you actually know that? So if you just don't care take care about your sleep You actually don't have the energy has so to run that mile every every every single day And if you don't have enough sleep You have a preference for more fatty and more sugary food So you will lose weight. So it's again So I need to learn actually has so from for instance the fitness guy and the meditation girl and the food guru And so what's important from from them and then together So transform it rather than stay on our silos So in our ivory tower and try to solve so the problem from a single angle I love that. Yeah, the super multivariate way of the future of health and well-being. I love that And the component of sleep. I mean, I've again just so many ways to take this Does it feel like Humanity is a biological bootloader for a digital super intelligence Um I don't know so and so I think um I think again, that's a we're we're we're we are an evolutionary species. So it doesn't go that fast and so What do you think is the most beautiful thing in creation? Um The most beautiful thing for me in creation is the unexpected And so because you do something which has so You never thought you were able to has so and then for me It's also has so sharing that's had creation with other people So and I think that's has what I think are the two components for me that are important has so in creation It's like And so bringing something bringing something new has so and then being able to share Yeah, bringing something new and being able to share. Yeah Kind of takes us to what is your unique gift that you can bring to the world and then how do you? Yeah, share it into the world. So as as you probably know As so I I used to work for apple has so the tech company here So and I brought a few features for sleep on their ios system on their phone So for me, it's kind of crazy to kind of know that has so Millions of people in the world and so using that piece of tech and using something that I put there for better health And so I I had that feature that has the cold night shift That's dims the screen at night as so a lot of people told me that was the best feature of that ios release Yeah, so they didn't care about has so that otherwise has so another camera feature And I think that's also where tech companies has so I think getting better in thinking of the health consequences, but also had thinking of has so the the psychological consequences has so because if I see kids and has so they are has so playing a full night with just the screen and don't interact with other human beings I rather would take the has so the tablet away And so the tablets are great, but We're still human beings. We still need to have that has so face-to-face interaction I still has so need a hug of somebody. Yeah, just a digital chat. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's so that's so profound The the the night the night shift or like flux is such a Such a crucial thing that that we use That gives us a better life like you said an actual hug rather than just a digital chat How can we use these philosophies morals ethics? as our Main principles as we build technology To enhance our world and so I I love that. I love that so much Roy, what a great conversation this has been. Thank you for coming on the show. Thank you so much and I really enjoyed it as well So I think so if you didn't stop me we could chat for hours so I have to be back. I mean, this is a big deal. I get your damn sleep everyone like It'd be because it really helps you live your physiology better. Also your productivity better the next day I mean, it's just yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Get your damn sleep everyone. Thanks for tuning into this episode I greatly appreciate it We'd love to hear your thoughts in the comments below and what we talked about let us know what you're thinking Also, check out the links below to sleep score labs also to Roy's profiles Check out all those links in the bio below. Check out the links that transform with technology conference in the bio below as well You can support them. You can support simulation You can support other artists entrepreneurs organizations around the world that you believe in you can find our links below our paypal Cryptocurrency patreon link you can design cool merch and get paid all those links around the bio below And go and build the future everyone manifest your dreams into the world We love you very much. Thank you for tuning in and we will see you soon Peace