 Good evening, everybody. Welcome to the Private Property Farming podcast. My name is Mbali Nwokor, your host every Tuesdays and Thursdays at 8pm. It's great to see you once again. And we've got another exciting show lined up for this evening. Today we're speaking to Devin Wells as well as Henning Glopper. These are both the co-founders of Zuni Wagyu, which is quite an interesting business. It's about beef farming. And I like the term Wagyu, which I'll explain shortly. But gentlemen, thank you for coming on to the show. Tell us about Zuni Wagyu. And how are you doing? I forgot to ask. Mbali, thank you so much for having us. Firstly, we really appreciate the opportunity. And we look forward to the chat. My name is Devin Wells and this is Henning Glopper. And we're from Zuni Wagyu. We're actually quite a young business, or us too. The company was only registered in the beginning of this year. It is a generational business. We have taken over from our dads. Our dads are actually best friends. A long story short. So Henning's family moved down to the Eastern Cape from Johannesburg in 2006. Henning's daughter and our family became best friends and since then a friendship then emerged into a partnership. So we've actually come from two different farming backgrounds. We used to farm with ordinary Angus cattle. We used to have a beef stud, an Angus stud, and Henning used to have a commercial stud. So now we combine the genetics of our past with our Wagyu of the future or of the present. So our Henning's dad went to Australia in 2010. They went to Australia in 2010 and had his first Wagyu experience. And then when he came back, our families decided that we should maybe start farming with Wagyu together. And in 2014, both farms merged together and they started the business Zuni Wagyu. The reason why it is called Zuni Wagyu is because we farm in the Zuni Valley quite close to Alexandria, about 80 kilometers east of Port Elizabeth. And we've actually, we both quit our jobs last year and moved back to the farm this year to take over the business and onwards and upwards from so forth. Yeah. So essentially our fathers are responsible for raising the cattle. And then once it's gone to the abattoir from there, we take over the reins and we've got a depoting facility on the farm. So we've got control of the entire new chain almost. And then from there, we send our Wagyu literally across the country to wherever you are. Wow. Well, it sounds amazing. Tell me, what were you doing before that? Devin, you said you quit your jobs. So what were you doing, Penny? What were you doing as well before Zuni Wagyu? I studied agricultural economics at university and then went away to work. We came back and did my postgraduate teaching certificate. And I was a teacher, a geography teacher for two years last year and the year before. But I've always had a passion for farming, always had a passion for beef. And me and Henan decided largely we're actually driving in the bucky on the farm, one of our farm holidays on the holiday, in the holidays on the farm. And we both just had a conversation like what do you really want to do one day? And we both just said we really have a passion for meat and we have a passion for the wild factor and beef. And we really want to be that wild factor in South Africa. So that's where our idea started. And then eventually we just decided, you know, this is something that we have to do. Interesting, Penny, what were you doing? I was head of operations at a company called Freedom of Movement. Since that started, yeah, I was actually one of their first employees and grew with a business and obviously a small business growing into quite a large retail business. I gained quite a lot of experience, especially in the logistics side of things. And that's kind of where both of us said, well, his family and his dad has this amazing talent of deboning wagyu caucuses because you cut it slightly different to normal beef. And I've also got the logistics and retail experience to kind of take a product online and to market. So we said, why don't we combine it? Because I think that that's quite an interesting talk about is that due to COVID, you can now order any good quality wagyu steak and have it delivered to your door. We previously saw everything as I think we're a little bit nervous to buy things online. And we're not asking them to buy meat online. But I mean, we've done over two and a half thousand shipments and been very successful. No big major faults there. Yeah, gentlemen, just to get into the technicalities of this, right? Because I'm hearing you saying beef and I'm hearing you saying wagyu in like in different terms, right? So is it safe to say that wagyu is beef or wagyu is a specific type of meat? So wagyu is a breed that originated in Japan, just to give you a little history lesson quickly. So in Japan, they were used as track dealers. So they were used to pull plows and to pull carts. So they have a wagyu carcass or a wagyu animal has an overdeveloped forequarter and a smaller hand quarter. That's one of the reasons why you get so many different cuts out of a wagyu carcass than you would out of an ordinary beef carcass. So wagyu actually means our cattle in Japanese. So in other words, it means Japanese cow or Japanese cattle. Okay. And is the wagyu cattle best grown in South Africa, you know, or are there other breeds that surpass wagyu, for example? Well, we obviously wag a farmer. So we're always going to tell you that wagyu beef is going to be the best. But to be quite honest, wagyu beef, there isn't really much that comes closer to our beef fuel personally. Obviously, the main difference is the quality of the fat and the fat content within the meat itself. So there's a term marbling. I don't know if you've heard of the word marbling before. So marbling is inter muscular fat within the muscles. So that's what makes wagyu different to ordinary beef is the fact that they have fat stored on the inside of their muscles. In Japan, very cold, obviously, the animals not only had to store fat on the outside to survive but also had to store fat on the inside of their muscles. And obviously, fat is energy as well. And in order for them to produce enough energy, they had to store fat on the inside of their muscles. And we all know that fat is flavor. So that's why you get a juicy tender, tender cutting primal or tender steak or juicy steak is because of the extra amount of fat in the meat. Yeah. All right. So let's get into both your roles because you said the parents are primarily involved in the primary production. Hennie, you're head of operations. Just tell us about what your portfolio within Zuni Wagyu entails. So essentially, Devon and I also kind of split our roles as in our parents raised a cattle and they sent it to the Abbott draw. And then Devon was responsible to raise to he bone the caulkers and then cut it up obviously into different steaks. I'm from the moment it leaves the meat room, I'm responsible. So what we do is obviously we're selling a luxury product. It's not been around the bush. It is more expensive than normal beef. It is really the many words in our opinion. What's nice is that there's so many other lesser known cuts that people are now starting to explore. So from the moment it leaves, we've obviously got in a polystyrene cooler boxes and then an outer box which we packaged. And so with tissue paper, we try to sell a story here and kind of give people this entire experience like the box opening of it. So from there, we then give you on that evening, once it sends out, we give you estimated time of arrival. We then coordinate with the client the entire time to make sure that they're available at that time. And then obviously once we have delivery, I then go and check in with the clients and make sure that they're happy at the end of the day. Happy clients, happy life. Yeah. So your focus, Henning, is definitely from business to consumer, right? What made you decide to focus directly on the consumer and not go wholesale and sell in bulk? That's an interesting question. So COVID definitely, as I mentioned earlier, played in our favor in the sense of people want to have a good piece of stake at home. And we, one of the only companies that can offer them, I mean, we've sent it from literally, as I mentioned, 80 kilometers, we've sent to Le Palale, we've sent to Richard's Bay, we've sent to Sutherland. We're a little bit nervous sometimes, but we always get it there successfully. So we ensure that it stays cold for four days, but we get delivery at 10.2. So where everyone's focused on keeping the cold chain in the sense of keeping the vehicle cold, we then rather let's focus on the inside of the box. There's a lot of people that ask us how we do it. And I think we're crazy as well. Yeah, a lot of people thought we were crazy last year when we said that we want to do this. But I mean, we've done two and a thousand shipments and it's really been, we've had three issues. One was due to the Durban rides. The other one was a missed delivery. And the other one was we had a new guy here, unfortunately, didn't take the box. So it's all things that were a little bit out of our control, but three out of two and a thousand is quite a good rate. Absolutely. And I mean, with any startup, with any business, you know, you're always going to have mistakes. I mean, there are companies that have been around for 50 or 100 years and are still, you know, still trying to get it right because the consumer at the end of the day constantly evolves. David, you're head of marketing as well as deboning. So maybe explain to us the deboning process. Does it mean that I'm buying meat without bones and I'm only eating fat? And how's the marketing channels like, like we've already established with Henning that, you know, your strategy is more from Zuni to the consumer instead of the business. So from your deboning process, are you thinking of the consumer first? And then you're deciding how to package it so that the consumer can consume the product. Yeah. So we actually focus on, obviously, our website based on our retail customer, but we actually do specified orders as well. So people ask us for specific things. So some of the things, some of the products that you see on our websites, we actually tailor to the individual customer as well. So there are people that are asking us to do certain things every day. What happens is the animals leave either our farm or Henning's farm and they are transported to an abattoir in Graemstad. The animals are then slaughtered in or harvested in Graemstad and then they are graded at the abattoir as well because we need to obviously have an external grading system in order for us to keep track and gather data about our beef, which is a completely different conversation on itself. Then it gets transported back to the farm where it then arrives in an ordinary caucus would be transported in quarters, but a wagging caucus weighs between 500 and 550 kilograms. We're in comparison, an ordinary beef caucus weighs between 320 and 380 kilograms. It's a lot heavier. So we actually don't transport the animal in quarters. It's actually sometimes in five or six pieces because they also have to do the grading between the fifth and the sixth rip for us to measure the iron muscle or the fat content within the river in order for us to have the marbling score per se. So the meat then comes into the deboning facility. It is then cut into certain primals. As we mentioned earlier as well, the four quarters, they haven't opened a bit of the four quarters. So there are a lot of different cuts that some people might have never heard of. So like the flat iron that comes out of the blade or the denver that sits below the chuck or the chuck eye that's above the river between the chuck and the neck and the rib eye, the rib steak. So it's a short rib of the animal, so the pork belly of beef, we would say. So there's a lot of different cuts. Then we actually then obviously have to make sure that we we're very accurate with our cutting process because it's an expensive product. So if you cut away a centimeter of steak or a centimeter here and there, you're losing money. So we are very fortunate to have quite a good team that work with us in the deboning facility as well. And we really focus on attention to detail and then after that, obviously focus on making sure that the clients are happy. And then once that product has then been put into the package, handling takes charge and then it gets sent to the customer. Yeah, still with you, Devin, then customers can sometimes disappoint and people would say, the economy is not doing so well. I'm a vegetable farmer and I know that having supplied to retailers and some wholesalers, businesses will tell you that the number of footprint of people walking in stores, never mind online, has slightly dropped because the average income in the household has slightly dropped. So with your strategy as a Zuni, focusing on more consumers, how do you manage the demand versus the supply? Other times, having been around for a year now, other times where there's too much meat from the avatar and you just don't, and there are less customers buying, do you find where you kind of like, maybe we need to expand it a little bit more to a bulk buyer because you know, the individual customer is not buying. And like you said, it is a premium product. So I suppose it doesn't come cheap. And there's so much technicalities in what you were just explaining, Devin, around the processing of it. So how do you manage the supply and the demand, especially in an economic climate that we're faced in with a premium or a luxury product? And will that push you or pull you rather to maybe focus on the bulk buyer slash wholesale slash retail client? So obviously, with an expensive product or a luxury product, you've got a certain target market or a certain LSM that you're trying to target. So they're obviously trying to create small pockets in certain areas or in certain clientele in order for us to be able to or not even get rid of but sell all of our products. But our strategy per se has actually been to try and focus our trim products on the wholesale market and then try and focus our promos and our stakes where we obviously add a markup to that, quite a proportion of markup to that. The reason being that obviously, let's take a carcass that weighs 500kg. People think that if you have a carcass that weighs 500kg, you're going to have 400kg of steak. They don't realize that there's bones, there's fat, there's trimmings, there's this wastage, there's sinews, there's so much in that carcass that you can't actually sell at a premium price. So we've actually made the joke plenty times that we actually just glorified patty salesmen. Because we have a sustainable model where we need to make sure that we have to sell all of our trimmings before we can sell our steak. So out of a beef carcass that weighs 500kg, you get between 220 and 250kg of trimmings. So that's your mince, your boss and your patties. So for us to sell 20 or 30kg of steaks, we have to sell 250kg of trimmings. So that's where we try to focus on our bulk sales, being our wholesale market. So we are in all the Hudson's in the country. So our burger is actually on the menu and all eight Hudson's in South Africa. We've now started a slow rollout with cattle barren as well. And then obviously we try and focus on getting our trim through the wholesale market and then we make sure that we keep our clients, steak clients happy per se. So we've got restaurants that are often for a constant supply of ribeye or sirloin or flat iron or steak cuts to to sell in the restaurant. And we actually just tell them, very sorry but we can't help you because we don't have enough supply. So that's where the question is we don't have enough animals to be able to scale it at this moment. So that's one of the issues that we actually have. I think that's an interesting touching point that David wants to touch on is that Waggy is this new buzzword in the meat industry. And people also used to, I mean, before this year, I would walk into a small wave and buy a ribeye steak and not think about the entire rest of the product. And with this whole new buzz that's going around Waggy, at the end of the day, if it carries on creasing like this demand, there's not going to be enough supply in the country because what's also very different about Waggy is that you don't raise it for one year or 18 months like a normal car because it's literally three years. So what that means is the carrying capacity on your farm also divides by three. So it's a long slow process and you can't really take shortcuts because if you push it for, you know, say cable and feedlot and try and only sort it after two years, you're going to get almost like a forced marbling. So we try and do have like slow, slow natural marbling. When you see marbling, you need to try and look for small, thin veins of fat instead of big coarse pieces of fat. That's almost like a little bit of a forced marbling, if I can put it that way. So yeah, that's where, yeah. Well, I guess perfection and premium takes time. Before I get to my next question, which is directed at you, Henning, I just want to encourage at NAM or at Marigotzi to comment on tonight's live so that you could claim a 500 grand cash prize as well as Josiah Farival to claim your 500 cash prize for our Know Your Crop competition. If this live ends and you haven't said anything, unfortunately, you will forfeit your prize. So please comment on tonight's live, say anything, hashtag Know Your Crop, hashtag private property, hashtag wag you, which is part of our discussion this evening. Going back to you, Henning, so how has the online sales been since you started? I mean, you mentioned a very interesting stat, 2000 plus orders, and the fact that you also come from your previous job or employment also dealt with a bit of online sales, et cetera. So how's this type of business different to your average retail sales? Because now we're dealing with meat and hey, it's wagging. Like you said, it's quite premium. Yeah. So at the end of the day, we are still selling a fresh product, as I mentioned earlier. So every consumers in general have been very wary to purchase things online, which is understandable. A lot of things can go wrong in a career process. It's a very difficult thing to monitor, but overall, the response has really been amazing. And I think short of that, our clients, we've picked up data that 70% of the clients who placed the order first time round actually placed a second or third order. And that's a very positive sign that our systems are working so that people start to realize, hey, it is actually really easy for me to get this awesome product delivered to their door. Another challenge that we also kind of found is that if you cook wag, you're slightly different to normal steaks. It's because of the high fat content, you can easily get it out of crusty outside quite quickly. And then to go into more depth, cuts like denver or flat iron is a more dense muscle. So it takes about one and a half times longer to cook it, to cook the steak of the same size. So what we did to kind of counter that is we add cooking guidelines and instructions into the package, because at the end of the day, buying wag is it's got a high price, and it's going to be a daunting cost to be like, okay, I really don't want to mess this up so that we kind of maybe like grew in them into being okay, it is actually easy. And this is the hot tops and guidelines. Hungry already. And I think that's a fantastic thing that you've added there, because, you know, you just hear wagging, and I kind of like want to order now, but I want to make sure that I'm cooking it right so that it doesn't take tastes awful, you know, because the way Devon explained the deep owning process and the fat and the this and the percentage, you're kind of like, geez, you know, I never thought meat would be that complicated. I think it's such a genius idea to actually add recipe instructions or cooking instructions. And maybe I'll ask this question to Devon, it could be an opportunity here, but have you considered maybe partnering with other online fresh produce delivery company, one that I can quickly think of is like a you cook, you know, because you could go onto the websites that give you recipes, and they give you the raw product, right? And then you cook, you know, so let's say a bachelor was ordering and he or he doesn't know how to cook. Would you look at partnering with like a you cook, for example, to add your wagging beef, and have your recipe in there, you know, for greater partnerships and expansions? We always obviously always looking to partner with with with online platforms and we actually are farm direct. We actually started working with farm direct. So we, we obviously I think the most important thing here is, is that we need to make sure that we're working with other people in order to to grow Wagyu as a whole in South Africa, you know, we obviously trying our best to in order to create a good product, a Zuni Wagyu brand. But inevitably, the all producers in South Africa under the same brand being Wagyu. So we obviously try and make sure that we always try and uplift the the name of Wagyu per se. And if there's anyone that's that's on that same on that same wavelength or on that same sort of course in order to improve the quality of not only of Wagyu, but of beef in South Africa, which which which Wagyu is per se, it is, it is a better quality beef than ordinary beef. So we work with with with other smaller platforms as well. Sorry, getting back to your question, I'll get a little bit sidetracked. Smaller platforms that we do work with and weeklies of the fillet lady in Cape Town, Bay Meat Market also based in Cape Town. So we slowly but surely creating a web and creative positive relationships and good relationships with other with other suppliers in order to to to help ourselves and to help them as well. Yeah, yeah. And I suppose you can never also grow too quickly because you have to manage the supply and demand and also the fact that that the growing process or the raising cattle process that Henning mentioned that you know you raise the cattle for about three years. So you obviously need to manage but it's great to know that you work with them because we actually had them onto the podcast. I think it was last month. So it's nice to know that farmers are working, you know, with with platforms such as these. So gentlemen, you know, as we close off our conversation today, I just want to find out, so what's the next step for Zuni Wagyu? You know, have you guys discussed in terms of where do you guys see yourself in the next two to five years? I mean, there could be people, you know, watching this podcast that are outside South African are thinking damn, I'm hungry, I want a bit of that wagyu. So, you know, someone could be ordering online right now. So which other any prospects of delivering maybe like to neighboring countries, Swaziland, DeSoto, Zambia, Namibia, you know, is that a possibility? So I think it's quite interesting internationally there's a big demand for wagyu. It's growing faster than the demand for wagyu in South Africa almost. And I mean, Australia trying to add a bit of a trade agreement fight. So now the entire time is looking for quality wagyu to be exported out of countries and into it, where we kind of try and keeping like our best product and ensuring that we always deliver. But we are actually actively looking into specifically Africa, I think there's an amazing target moment and it's actually the tourism industry and it really is an awesome opportunity. So we are actively looking at that further in the local community, we are looking at possibly opening small niche butcheries and things like that's a little bit of a different spin to your average butchery. I think in general, I know if there's any meat farmers, but the entire meat industry is dull and boring and we're trying to put this new young fresh energy into it so that people realize, okay cool, there is actually a little bit of a different spin on it. One thing that we do which not a lot of people actually do and it's been quite successful is tasting events. So we're actually doing one tomorrow evening for Brian Havana. We did one two weeks ago for Sivan Gezi. So we go and we run through eight different cuts and we obviously talk about the cuts and go into detail what they do and actually it's similar to some of the some of the concept to why and ask people, okay what tasting notes do you taste out of this and what we always do is we take all of the stakes from one cog and we explain to people that like how awesome it is that interesting it is that you get such different taste profiles and flavors out of just simply different cuts from the same animal and that's also a new little bit of a different spin where we actually obviously when COVID allows it, go to people's houses and then present it and do a whole run through of all the different cuts it could do. Wow, thank you so much for your time gentlemen. This was such a fantastic conversation and I I know that we'll see a lot of Zuni much more as well and maybe just please share your website details so that people know where to find you. So do I go to Farm Direct or go directly to Zuni and maybe just spell out Zuni so that people know where to find you. So they are always welcome to purchase the Farm Direct platform or any other platform but our own website is Zuni Wagyu that's Z-U-N-E-Y-W-A-G-Y-U dot com. All of the information run through there, our information and all of our contact details on there and by all means please call us, ask us questions we like because we're trying to educate the consumer here what Wagyu is because once again it is a luxury product we're trying to give them. And Henning loves to chat. He loves to chat about me that's it. That's fantastic it shows that he's passionate about his product he's passionate about his business and I mean that's what's going to make the sale at the end of the day. Imagine if he wasn't talking about it then we think oh you know this is quite boring and who would want to buy so yeah it's great to see the passion in both your gentlemen's faces and I'm sure your parents must be part of you in how you've pivoted the business and really focused on the secondary and tertiary part of the business. Thank you very much appreciate it. It's a pleasure thank you so much that was Devin and Henning both from Zuni Wagyu and they were telling us about their business Zuni Wagyu. Wagyu is a beef premium product please go onto their website. I won't try butcha how Henning spout that but if you miss today's live just go towards the end check out their website and order directly and you know what I liked about Henning what he said is that you know he's always willing to understand the consumers perspective so please buy their products and also give them feedback because I think that's what's going to make them great at the end of the day. So yeah here's the spelling Zuni Z-U-N-E-Y Wagyu.com order and they are delivering throughout South Africa and also you can get the products on Farm Direct SA if you are a regular to shop on that platform and I must congratulate both our winners they've come they've commented they've claimed their prize so congratulations to you please continue to follow our campaign Know Your Crop and I will see you next week Tuesday at 8 p.m. with another fantastic guest that's it for me tonight goodbye.