 Good morning or good afternoon depending on when you're joining us from today and a very warm welcome to everyone Today we'll be covering effective load restraint and we have a special guest presenter from Blue Scope Steel Now this particular webinar is part of the National Road Safety Partnership Program webinar series and a little bit of information on that for those of you unaware The NRSPP has been established to provide a collaborative network for Australian businesses and organisations to help them create a positive road safety culture both internally and externally It aims to help organisations of all sizes across all sectors to share and build road safety initiatives specific to their own workplace and beyond It's delivered by ARB and funded primarily by Government Coalition and ARB For more information and more tools like this webinar please refer to the NRSPP website Now as I said we've got a very special webinar presenter joining us today and I'll introduce him in one moment My name is Angela Yuhas and I will be your friendly webinar moderator today If you do experience any issues along the way or you have any questions please feel free to get in touch with me at any time Now for today's session we've allowed approximately 60 minutes total About 40 minutes of that will be spent on the presentation and we'll be taking questions throughout So please don't be shy, get your questions through to us and we'll be happy to deal with those as we go We are also recording today's session ladies and gentlemen and so there's no need to take notes All of the presentation material as well as the recording will be sent to you once the webinar has concluded Now as I mentioned before we welcome questions and discussion and if you would just look over to your control panel You'll notice a questions box, we ask that you type those in here and I'll make sure that Graeme gets them throughout the presentation and gets back to you on those Now without any further ado I will introduce our man of the moment so his name is Graeme Agnew Now Graeme is a logistics engineer with BlueScope Steel and is recognised as a leading expert in the field of load restraint and transport safety in the Australian steel industry having worked or consulted for various companies including BlueScope, ARIEM and Stramet With over 20 years operational and technical experience across manufacturing and transport functions Graeme has developed a practical hands-on approach to load restraint He's a mechanical engineer and also holds a Masters of Business and Technology through the University of New South Wales His current role as a logistics engineer with BlueScope He's been responsible for developing cost-effective and efficient transport safety solutions including the load restraint of a wide variety of loads as well as coaching and mentoring of drivers, loaders, supervisors and managers in their application A very warm welcome to you Graeme on this rather cold winter's day here in Melbourne How are you going today? Good Angela, how are you? I'm very well thank you and thank you for your time in preparing today's presentation and delivering it for our audience I'm sure we're all very keen to learn more about the good work of BlueScope Steel and this particular initiative So I'll hand over to you Okay Angela, absolute pleasure Alright, so firstly I thought I'd just give you a bit of background into who BlueScope Steel are Just so you can understand where we come from around this issue of load restraint Basically we are a global manufacturer and supplier of steel products and solutions Basically across the world with 17 countries employing over 17,000 people We have more than 50 facilities across the Pacific region and nearly 100 distribution centres just here in Australia with almost 8,000 people As far as that we also operate the largest steelworks in Australia here at Port Kemble which is where I'm based And basically that has an annual production capacity of around about 2.6 million tons of goods I'm sure many people have probably seen some of our brands in the past Things like Colobon, you'll see those ads on television Products like Zikaloon, Lysart and in the last 18 months or so we've acquired a couple of other well-known businesses And it's grown still in the screen of the builders and in what kind of steel The important part to understand about that is what BlueScope Steel is BlueScope is actually not a transport operator Basically less than 1% of our transport costs would actually be done on company-owned vehicles So primarily we are a loader, hacker, consigner, port receiver One of the things though that has happened in that time is back in the mid-1990s BlueScope Who was BHP Steel back in those days Realised that securing heavy steel products on trucks was a major risk to its employees, contractors and the community And basically started looking at ways to minimise that risk Across the steel industry we have seen a number of serious incidents which have included fatalities And basically that has occurred to both drivers and also other RAID users As a result of having loads that were incorrectly explained BlueScope itself, BlueScope is recognised as a leader in safety within the steel industry worldwide And basically one of the things that we do is we manage our high-risk activity in what we call codes of practice These are codes which sit across all our businesses And basically they set out the minimum standards or sites And also our service providers to adhere to And those high-risk activity such as mobile equipment, overhead grains, product storage and labour strength All up there's about 12 of those codes of practice in our business And as we said, labour strength is one of our major risks and hints as one of those codes of practice attached to it Alright, so that's just a bit of a background as to where we come from and why we take this seriously And that's probably where the real story begins right now and here as to what is effective labour strength And look, I understand that the BlueScope approach to labour strength is probably not right for every organisation But if you adopt two of the key models that we're going to discuss, it's possible to demonstrate compliance And when I look at what that compliance looks like Now I regularly, you know, people like the regulators talk about China responsibility And they kind of talk about three things They talk about information and instruction, training and equipment And I'll go into those in a bit later Because it is a holistic system that you need in order to manage labour strength So if I look firstly at information and instruction You know, we need to make sure that our people, both our employees and contractors Know how the load is to be put on the vehicle What the vehicle and equipment is required to restrain the load And how that restrain equipment must be applied Secondly, we need to ensure that our personnel are trained and competent to complete the tasks that they need to do And finally the second part is the auditing section So do work practices comply with instructions? Are personnel appropriately skilled? And is the equipment being maintained? And generally speaking, when I hear the regulators actually talk about compliance with COR requirements such as labour strength That third element, that auditing phase, that supervision Making sure people are actually complying with those systems Generally the one they say is fairly well done But look, the focus of today's webinar is to show you how we manage labour strength Using two different models Basically and show how we stop loads from coming off trucks And causing damage to both people and product Alright, so as I said The thing with BlueScape is that we are not a transport company primarily We primarily are a consign And really as far as consigning We have an effective system We can contract management with the actual product element of that Transport providers who work for BlueScape Steel Basically expect to sign up to what we call the Australian Steel Industry Logistics Safety Code And that safety code was actually developed by BlueScape and once steel And it's actually aligned with the actual National Logistics Safety Code Basically what that code requires is the contractors and sites that are working for us Have evidence that they've met a number of key criteria So they make sure that we have their trained equipment That their load Australian equipment is up to standard Meets the relevant requirements And that they actually have guidelines around how those loads must be trained on their vehicles So what we're basically doing by going through that code And auditing our contractors against that Is actually pre-qualifying those contractors Before they actually even come onto site So when I talk about the two different models that we use These are the two real models that you have in your business The first one is what I would call the contractor-based system And basically this is where you would go to the contractor And basically get them to develop an engineer labor strength system So what we do is we say to the contractor, look you've got some expertise in this You come to us with a system that meets the right About the legislative requirements of labor strength We then would review that system And if it's acceptable we would approve it We then would monitor that system through our contracts management process And basically part of that would be our contractors showing us Their compliance around auditing And also their compliance around You know, if they've had an incident How they actually manage that and what corrective actions They've actually been permitted to prevent further breaches from occurring It is From a contractor point of view Sorry, from a consignor point of view it is the simplest solution Okay, because what we're doing is we're getting them to do the work In the background around developing the system and we are simply monitoring that However, in our experience most of our contractors Don't have the hearing resources to be able to develop an engineer labor strength system So what we've basically done is In most cases we've adopted what I call the consignor model Where basically we have a team of specialised and experienced house engineers And basically what we do is we develop guidelines for them Based on our knowledge of over-straint and also different products And basically allow the contractors to adopt those And as I said, the vast majority of cases That's what happens within our business Okay, so as far as information instruction I'll talk a little bit about this now So why is it so important to have an engineer labor strength system? So I would compare this to driving down the highway And I'm going to go over a bridge You know, I want to make sure that when I go over that bridge Somebody has put some diligence into that Okay, so they've made sure that when they're designing that bridge That they've taken account of the weight of the vehicles going over that bridge You know, that bridge can take the loading of wind kind of push it sideways You know, you don't want to go over that bridge thinking Oh, you know what? The laborer on this job was the guy who selected the size And the strength of the metal girders that we're going into When I drive next to a truck out on the road I want to know that somebody has also put that same level of diligence The reality of that though is in most cases The restraint of most loads out on our roads Are left up to the driver And the truth of that is that most drivers Basically don't have any training around labor strength Or have very limited training And most of them don't understand the principle of labor strength I'll give you an example of that A couple of years ago I was training a driver who was new to our business And he came up to me at the end of the session and he said He said, I think driving a truck for 20 years And he goes, no one before today had actually told me What illegal requirements were for labor strength Until he used to put it up at the top of this class To me that was fairly scary to think that someone could do a job for 20 years And not understand, not know there was a legal requirement For a job that they're actually doing So what are the legal requirements? So for people who don't know The legislation around labor strength in Australia Comes out of the book that you see on the right hand side It's called the National Transport Commission Labor Strength Guide Meaning that guide, it sets out performance standards The load must be restrained And that performance standards are shown there in that diagram But to comply with the legislative requirements For a rail transport here in Australia Basically you must restrain 80% of the load in the course direction So if I had a 10 ton load I'd have to have equivalent of 8 ton of restraint 50% sideways and rearwards 10 ton load I would need 5 ton of restraint Vertically 20% So 10 ton load I would need to have 2 ton of restraint Now that's not as easy as it sounds And to make you understand that a little bit better Another example I was about I looked at a load once a couple of years ago And I actually went up to the driver And I asked the driver how much restraint he had on that load And the driver basically said Oh it's simple He said up to 10 ton I need 2 ton I asked the driver how did he work that out And what he said to me was That basically he needed to restrain 80% of the load forward So that was 8 ton And basically then 2 ton chains 8 ton of restraint Unfortunately it's not that simple as you'll see shortly And it's the reason why we need to have an engineering system Other requirements that the law also requires Is to set out in those performance standards That the load should not come dislodged from the vehicle And the load cannot adversely affect the vehicle Stability or weight distribution when it sees one of those forces outlining Graeme sorry to cut you off there I've had a couple of our audience members Just note that your audio is a little bit fading in and out I just wanted to make sure that the microphone is all clear at your end Sorry about that, yeah As far as I'm aware, yes Okay beautiful, thank you That's enough? Yes Okay, so as I said the reality is it's not that simple The truth is that load restraint is actually the size Now generally speaking the load restraint relies on three mechanisms To prevent the load from moving Frictional force created by the weight of the load itself Frictional force created by the clamping force applied by the restraints And the strength of their equipment used to restrain the load Either by blocking, containing or attaching to it So, once a look at an engineered load restraint system The way that we would do it The way that it is done regardless of whether or not You're working on the contractor based model Or the consignor based model is starting with the TCC By restraint performance You can see that there over on the left hand side We then model that particular load And basically put it into a model A whole heap of calculations that basically look at all the potential Of AMO's for that load Things like sliding, toppling and rotating And then we take those equations And we put it into what we call the load restraint guideline For that product Which is then the documentation, the driver and the loader's receipt What makes this even more complex Is that many of the variables used in these calculations Are not straightforward either So, the experience has shown us that in a lot of cases The actual load actually works and behaves a lot differently To what we would expect So what we actually have to do is actually go off And test those assumptions to validate them What we're trying to do here is create a real-world situation So that we can verify those assumptions So the things that we would look at would be the friction between surfaces Impact of different load configurations The behavior of restraints The stretch in the restraints of the different tensions You know, all that restraint actually depends on that Another thing that we actually would look at would be the performance of the packaging Because the packaging, as we'll discuss shortly, plays an vital role in the actual load restraint So, what we then do is we basically have a number of different types of testing And I've got some photos there on the screen that you can see And I'll talk about these These are some of the trials that we actually did last year On something that you see quite often out on the road So you can actually see there where we've got some tilt testing You can also sometimes prefer to a static testing So if you look at the NCC guideline And what they will talk about in that guideline here The load up to a certain angle You can simulate the 0.8, the 80% forwards Or the 50% side waves So as I said, some bulk bags I'll show you a little video of some testing that we did So you can see there we did some testing And obviously that was a fail One of the things that we started to do when we were testing these bulk bags Was found that the coefficient of friction with those bulk bags onto the pallets Was actually much lower than what we actually were looking at So then we took those bags And we actually did some drag test, friction test You can see there where we have the photo Where we've actually put the bulk bag down on the ground We've got a forklift, we've knitted that up with a chain Forklift, we have a load cell to then measure the peak force And then we can determine what the actual friction value is After doing that we actually were able to get the required friction By actually placing some rubber on the deck And some more tilt testing And then we went to what we call dynamic testing Now dynamic testing is very similar to the crash test Dummy type test We've actually put the load on a truck Run it down a vacant, isolated stretcher road And basically on one of our sites And basically slammed on the brakes and actually hit the risk point We have a decelerometer that actually measures The actual deceleration of the actual load So yeah, that's the type In developing an in-community load restraint system That's the type of extending the indicator So as I said, that due diligence approach So look, it has been fairly technical up to this point The thing to understand though Is when you're doing this with the actual audience That you catering for So yeah, we've done this technical work But now I need to do something for the loader And the driver that they're going to understand So I need to use language that they understand And I want to try and cut down on the number of tests And also photos and actually use diagrams So one of the things is Drivers want to be able to look at their load And basically then look at a photo And that need to go Well, my load needs to look like that So if you look at those two photos You can actually see that actually The other thing that our guidelines Certainly focus on is what we call By fundamentals of load restraint So one of the things that we've actually done Is we've done a lot of analysis over the years Of our load restraint instruments And what we've found is that In the majority of cases, it can be loaded back To one of five fundamental principles These being packaging, friction, drainage No gaps and also the number of restraints So I'll talk a bit more about each of those So the first one is packaging And one of the things that you kind of look at As you go through and actually get those five fundamental principles Actually how many of these Actually are the responsibility of the designer More so than what they are the actual loader In a lot of cases, probably the first four are And certainly packaging will always be The responsibility of the designer Okay, so the packaging One of the things to understand about it Is it must be able to withstand the 80% And the 20% Because it needs to be able to hold that object With one solid pattern on the debris Now, it's near impossible for a driver To directly restrain the load And packaging is not right So what we have in our business Is a series of critical procedures For packaging And basically we can see there an example Of what comes out of our distribution business With small parts And basically the operators Are basically trained and audited Against those procedures As far as fundamental number two Friction And really this is the most important Of those fundamentals Okay, it is more important Than the number of restraints We want to make sure that if you've got Low friction surfaces, things like Steel on steel, plastic on plastic Plastic on steel, breaking those up With something like rubber The third fundamental that we talk about Is drainage So we also, the guidelines will spell out Things like the correct size and type The drainage and how it must be Orientated on the truck You can see there over in the cutout The example of the good and the bad Okay, we don't want things like Rectangular drainage on its drainage Because it's very easy for that to rot And that creates real problems Because of the plastic restraints One of the other things we talk about Is how to eliminate gaps Okay, so you can see there an example Again, the cross for the bad The tip to the good If I've got gaps in loads That's going to allow my restraints to And my restraints to come in So as I said, a lot of those first forward A lot of cases do come down to The actual consignment The people actually load in the load Not always, but in a lot of cases That is the case The drivers have Definitely have the actual Responsibility form It's actually making sure They have the number of restraints So what we try to do here Is take out all those complex calculations And do that up front for the driver And then that driver And the table Or the number of restraints To actually determine how many Are you restraining me So if you look at that table there It's fairly easy If you have a 12 tonne of that product I would need to have three chains On that load So one of the other key things About these guidelines Is basically their availability Basically those guidelines Are available to employees And contractors online Through a couple of different systems We also display Those guidelines clearly At the dispatch point There's some photos there of One of our sites And you can actually see those guidelines Clearly on display At the labourage area Here on this Drivers are also Required to carry a copy Of those guidelines That are relevant to their load With the new trucks And we actually put it that as part of the whole process Some cases though We will also take that Restraint system One step further And actually also not only The guideline Or the technical grade procedure But we'll also have to design Some type of equipment To go with it So why do we do that Well there's a couple of reasons Sometimes the restraint can be Complicated so one of the things We're trying to do whenever we do Is to try and stick to the method of restraint The number of steps to drive out And the loaders have to put on So we can reduce the potential Of human error And also increase the efficiency When you do that You want to think about things like Using systems that block and contain the load Because what that will allow you to do Is actually reduce the number Of restraints required There's an example there We can actually see what we've done That we had a lot Down in Victoria last year And basically what we had to do Was of course these tools were so narrow And the potential for them to topple To see how we developed the technical Document that actually needed This equipment that we actually developed To allow that to That product to occur And to be moved safely Okay So as I said earlier The guidelines, that information That instruction part Is just the first element The second element That I want to just go through Is our load restraint train Basically Regardless of whether or not You adopt either A consignor model Or a contractor model You need to make sure That our loaders and our drivers Are competent So contractually, Looscape Requires that drivers Are trained and competent So all contract drivers Are required to do that We also Train our employees as well And why do we do that Because we want them to recognise High risk situations And so they're empowered To basically group in Non-compliant loads from the other side Our training Basically Available both A large focus Of that training is actually Those five fundamentals that we've taken You can see there are a couple of slides there That actually show the type of things we do Fundamental two, by friction Fundamental three The dangers have done it One of the things we also do With our training is A large library of incidents That were collected over 20 odd years To provide impact And the reasons behind The requirements So here we have a case here around One of those fundamentals The roll and done edge The rectangular done edge on its thin edge Basically a driver in this case Had that rectangular done edge On its thin edge Basically that done edge rolled When he applied the brakes At a rail crossing And basically without the chance to come forward And basically the load stood Into the back of the cabin and crushed that Really give impact Or recently was training some drivers Who were going to start to carry this exact same product And when I was able to say to them Here's the fatality Of exactly the same product Like carrying You can start to see That would have on somebody In their lives One of the other things that we are now doing Is also starting to develop Training videos To try and show That someone actually doing it So I'm going to play one of those You can actually see where we're headed I'm sorry Would you mind turning the volume up a little bit So that there is just an example That's one of our shorter ones There are two different versions of that There's a long line which goes into a lot of the detail The driver would have As part of his initial training The version there is more just for A refresher So different types of training We have both awareness And training and competency based training And that depends On the person's role For example You know we We've got a sales person In one of our small regional branches We don't need Them to have the same level of detail As the driver or the provider But we also want them to have some understanding Of what those higher risk situations are So if they see something Down on site they can actually stop that load From going out incorrectly with strain They may also have a discussion with a customer Who's going to pick it up around what The requirements are So we want them to have some awareness Of what those requirements are With the But for people like drivers and loaders There are higher requirements Which are the competency based requirements Basically our drivers Are required to complete theoretical tests And basically That Around some of the stuff we've seen And basically that then Is also tested practically They are audited By the supervisor on their first load To actually confirm their practical Competency The record Of that competency Is then actually The driver's passport So that if anyone goes to order That driver out on site That's very easy to verify Whether or not that driver has the right training That training is then Refreshed So the driver is required to go through that process To get it retrieved Or if there's a major revision There's an actual guideline There also need to do as well The third element Of Instructing and supervising that That System and we do that through our auditing Process As I said earlier This is the one that when I hear the regulators Talk is not very well done But I'll run you through exactly how we do So Our contract reviews Whether or not it's a contractor based system Or a consignment model Basically Our contract review process We regularly meet with the contractors And one of the items On the contractor reviews is actually The local strength review Contractors In that process are required to report On any local strength failures They have What actions they're taking around those Players and also their Audits And we actually also have commercial Penalties in our contracts With our suppliers We also Monitor loads on an individual Basis and we do that through Our local strength audit program Basically, annually We review our products To determine the risk type So we put them into a matrix as you see down The bottom and basically we look at What the risk Of that product is based on Its history And also the number of local Failures and then we rank them Low risk, medium risk or low risk And basically we've ordered High risk products every 5% of loads Medium risk 3.5% and low risk Every Half of the I'll talk a bit more about that in one of the next couple of slides How we also adjust That in one result Basically then what we do Is decide In basically depending on The number of loads that they actually dispatch And also what the product risk rating is They actually get an order target For how many loads they need to complete Every month Those local strength audits Come in a standard format They can be accessed Either by hard copy Or electronically So the technologies they have these days To what they are, people that actually Are using a tablet Technology such as an iPad Straight directly into the local strength audit system What those audits actually do Is require checks of Those essential requirements So making sure the actual person's been trained There's no low friction Surfaces That the actual They're following things like correct drainage Practices of the type, correct type The number of strengths in that Their equipment is even Equal to them One of the other parts of this as well Is it's not just about compliance But it's also an opportunity to follow up On the driver's training So often no one talks to the driver About load restraint after he's trained Unless somebody doesn't want it So it's a good follow up process For us around that It's also an opportunity for drivers And loaders to get the results So there's opportunity to be on that form To write any comments the driver might have So that we can process that Back through this We can then look at That might be needed to the guideline Basically we have Across Australia about 160 different Dispatch points And we would complete somewhere In the facility of 3,000 The 3,500 load restraint orders Across those sites Every month All that information goes into The database and we actually use That database to identify Any changes that may be required For any training requirements A couple of years ago we had Some statistics In our distribution business That's there And basically we organized A major intervention in those sites Right across the country And basically training up their people And that type of thing So that we could improve Their performance and we actually saw A marked improvement and have Their performance around load restraint To resolve that and monitoring that screen Across our business We actually target An order compliance of 95% And if a site Does not meet that Compliance of 95% What we actually do Over a three month period if they don't meet that If those actual targets That 5% provider is Loads would actually Get increased to 7.5% Okay they'd need to Order 7.5% of high risk loads Of loads for the next three months And then we would continue To monitor that and they wouldn't Drop back to 5.5% The requirement, the normal requirement Until they've had three months Consected in the building Above a 95% compliance Alright so the final little section Of our presentation today Is just about the future I want to give you some ideas Of the stuff we're starting to look at As far as load restraint is concerned Some of the things that we're starting to do Is actually Develop And use smart technology So we're starting to do Because I put go-pros on trailers To actually monitor The weights and transits To give us some more guidance On how they actually behave And that type of thing We're also using it as a bit of a training tool You know, show drivers and loaders Different parts of the actual process And we're also Develop what we call A smart phone app Which we're calling Steel Drive And I'll show you that In a little bit of an example Over here This is still in development The actual developer Still developers are telling us That it would be available Towards the end of November But this is where we're going with it So this is a driver This is an app that's being developed for our drivers So it would come into a little screen Like this As you can see here The name and password And then basically when it comes through It would then Come into this section here And basically it can then Come into here with different locations And you can see here Like this is my little finger Pretend that's my little finger on the screen They're scrolling through And I click on it's all touch screen And you can come down here It gets the details of Loading sites, details on the loading sites That type of thing And also any So as I said some of the data in here is not here But you get the idea The PPE requirements Things around Exclusion zones That type of thing That type of community facilities And also You know, the closest Way stations and rest stops And petrol stations That If that location Is part of the driver's Favourites It also would receive notifications So for example If that site The fork was broken down and we couldn't load for three hours That's the type of information The driver would notice Not get notifications So it gives us some idea Or some help Also manage our fatigue management The other information Look it's primarily been set up Around labor strength though And you can actually see That I was to click on here The driver then gets Information on the different guidelines As I click through You know depending on the product it would tell him How many restraints that he needed Back over here If I was to go through Sorry You can actually go down here as well And if I was to click on this one You would get For that product The video similar to what I showed earlier Alternatively You would come onto here And you would get our hard copy The whole copy The information's not there The other part of this as well Basically Is what we call load capture So one of the things that we want to do Is start to record Data from the actual loads And basically two reasons for that A, we're going to get the driver to actually take a photo Of the actual restraint And the reason that we do that Is another process So it's another thing the driver actually has to look at So he can't have a lapse In concentration and actually Something in the process And also it gives us some record Of how the load was actually restraining As I was to go through this I would Get a different product that I'm doing You know who I've carried for And then I can click on one of these Take a photo of the load And then there's a limit of eight photos He can actually take Goes into this database The driver then would press submit Except And that then is uploaded to a system And that stays on that system For a period of 30 days Allow us to review that The driver can also see that On his smartphone And basically scroll through and get those details Of that particular So thank you very much guys For listening today I hope you've got something out of it And I'll hand back over to Angela Thank you so much Graham Brilliant app concept We have had a couple of questions And I think it was November, December You said that it was ready to be Released, is that right? The information That I had from the developers In November, last week Was that they were looking at Late November, early December For implementation As the first phase of that Brilliant Well I look forward to seeing the final product That was great and thank you so much For taking the time to deliver this session I'm sure that our audience did get A lot out of it Now we do have a few questions And unfortunately only 10 minutes Remaining in the webinar So I'll select a few to ask Graham So I do apologise if we don't Have time to address your question today But Graham's details as you can see Are on there on your screen And we do welcome you to get in touch Any time if you'd like to discuss Your queries further I'm sure Graham will be more than happy To take your call or email Okay We've had a question here from Mark Mark is asking What are your thoughts on restraining loads Using standard alloy gates And 2T web straps Over the tops of the gates It depends On the load In a lot of cases I'd probably say It's not It probably doesn't meet the requirements But I I know in some cases where it can Different loads are different I would personally prefer To see those Webbing over the actual load Rather than Through the gate and actually Lamping down the actual load Rather than relying on On Those webbing following the gates In place. It does work in some Cases of loads But I'd be certainly concerned About it trying to Restrain something like a pallet On a trailer Great, thank you for that question Mark A question here from John And John's asking Have you found statements In the load restraint guide That are not in agreement with the blue scope Load restraint guidelines What approach do you take in dealing With such conflicts So For us As I said one thing that we do Is we actually start with The actual Legislation That's the only part of That actual line Legislation The rest of that Okay so we All our loads actually With those performance That's our basis to work from The rest of the Adjusting Alrighty another question here from Mark Can I ask why blue scope has only Released the documents as guidelines And have not had them certified To meet the performance standard Tricky one It is something that We have Discussed over the years And it has certainly You know there's been a lot of discussion over that And something that we are still looking at It's not something That There's been a decision in the past May that Was potentially we can see The real benefit in doing it But there's been You know Certainly it's an ongoing discussion The process The process to actually Certify those guidelines Is one Step that You know there's been some discussions In the past that regulate About So it's still something we are certainly looking at Right Okay a couple of questions here from David now David's asking About getting access To the guidelines and using them In their own training Material and he's referred to The videos that you showed during the presentation As well so are they available For our audience to Access view And reuse in their own organization So what would you suggest So Start with Any of that stuff that we've Got is available To people Who have agreements With us so it's not just People that want to deal Strammets seems to those companies We have agreements with certainly have Access to those Guidelines as well as Our carriers That actually transport providers People are told K&S Who work very closely with us They also have access to that So we've developed that and seen We've got an agreement with you guys Or you guys are working for us We're going to give you that information And So that's how it There's some thoughts about Also Widening back to what they are Other people to access them But that still Discussions around that at this point in time But if people Wanting More information that are outside of that group And they wanted to contact them We could certainly have a look at those requests Alrighty No worries at all Now we have had a couple of questions Presentation material and recording So just to reiterate Everyone that's participating here today Will be sent a copy of the presentation material As well as the recording Of today's session So you'll be able to review that at your leisure Share those with colleagues perhaps As I said Any time that's convenient You can have another look at that So thank you to everyone who Sent through questions relating to that We do have a couple more Questions So we might get time for one or two more A question here from Ian, Ian's asking Are chains used Are chains used for this presentation Grade 8 And 8mm So All our guidelines that we actually use Are 8mm Chains that meet the strain standard AS 4340 All our guidelines are based on those The only time that we've had to go To chains which are higher than that Is when we've had We had to do a guideline For one still around excavators And because some of those Were like 65 ton Basically we had to Go to n and 13mm chains But certainly any of our guidelines The minimum requirement is 8mm chains to AS AS 4340 Great Well thank you for that question And I hope we've managed to clarify that for you If not get in touch with us For a bit more discussion Alright one final question To finish up our webinar this afternoon Or this morning Depending on where you're joining us from The question here from John is Have you had on-road enforcement people Question your guides Would you have dealt with that? So In answer to that yes we have We have And generally speaking There is a fairly good relationship Between this type And regulators and we have Some of our senior managers Are certainly part Of The safety council And that type of thing In fact one of our general managers In the safety committee For Australian logistics There's a fairly good working relationship there There has been questions About it and there was A case Recently But basically Was not That was raised by an inspector We Challenged that together with Others that were in that supply chain And basically that case Was actually dropped Before it went Based on the fact that we had all the engineering Proved that the actual system Was compliant There is one other little bit to that as well We are now actually Basically adding some Additional comments to our guidelines To basically say That they are designed To meet the Australian Locust Bank performance standards That's an additional thing That our guide wants as a result Of that Place Great, alright Well on that note I will bid our audience fair Well and take this opportunity To thank them once again for joining In today and we really hope that You gain something valuable From today's session As I said if there's any part Of today's session that you'd like to review You will be getting that presentation Material shortly So do keep an eye on your emails Graham a big thank you to you For putting together this presentation And sharing your story with us It's certainly been insightful for me So look forward to that Out becoming available As I'm sure many of our audience Is also Yep no problem pleasure Beautiful Alright thank you once again And we hope you can join us for future webinars There will be a short pop up Survey that will pop up on your screen Ladies and gentlemen as I close down the webinar It's just a few short questions And if you could kindly let us know how we went today Be very grateful Thank you all and hope you can join us next time Bye bye