 Hey, we're back real live. This is military in Hawaii. We're gonna have a conversation today with Major General Susie Varis-Lum. And we are so happy to have her on the show. She was on the show before a couple of years ago and now she's back and we are so happy to see her again. Hi, Susie, so nice to see you. Hi, Jake, thank you so much for having me back on and it is wonderful to see you as well. Well, we wanna celebrate the military in Hawaii. I think the military is, you know, part of the backbone of the state. I think a lot of people don't realize that. But in fact, you know, the Navy was in Pearl Harbor in 1850. 1850, I was right in the middle of, you know, the monarchical days in the development of the modern Hawaii. And so it's been connected all that time. And you're at Camp Smith, which is, I mean, I used to refer to it affectionately as paycom, but it's not paycom anymore. Can you talk about the transition? Absolutely, Jay. You're absolutely right. It is U.S. Indo-Pacific Command or more often referenced as Indo-Paycom. And, you know, the decision was made when Secretary Manus announced it at the change of command between Admiral Harris and Admiral Davidson that it would be referred to as U.S. Indo-Pacific Command because really you look at our air of responsibility. It's from the California coast to the West coast of India for all U.S. forces. And you have the Indian Ocean and the Pacific Ocean. So it's connecting the two, identifying South Asia as part of that and everything in between these two bodies of water together. So it definitely is an inclusive title. Yeah, the world is smaller. That's what it tells me. The world is smaller and, you know, we reach out to India. We reach out to the whole area there and we have maybe a greater vision even than we did, you know, at the time PAYCOM was originally conceived. And it's certainly more complex now. And I'm happy to see that Camp Smith is the home of this command and that we are, you know, looking out to the West, millions of miles of ocean and land, you know, it's half the world, isn't it? And you're really, so you're right there. So let's talk about you for a minute. It really began at UH. Can you talk about that and what got you into the Army? Army, am I right, Army? Oh, National Heart Army. Yeah. Right. Well, actually I joined the UH University of Hawaii ROTC program and what got me into it, my father served, he's a Vietnam veteran and all of my uncles from Maui served during World War II or right after the Korean War. So I had, there is a legacy of service in my family and it's sort of been ingrained this legacy of service. So I was really proud to be part of the UH program. And then I went on active duty. So I've been in, we have three components in the Army, component one, active duty, two, National Guard and three, the reserve. So I've been in all three components. I actually joined in 1986 as a private, then went into ROTC and then now, you know, 34 years later, a major general, but really proud of our University of Hawaii ROTC program that's going strong still today. You probably know Stan Osserman. He's a, bring it here. Oh, I do. Yeah. So when you walk down the street with Stan, he would be junior to you, right? So he, let's see, you would be at the right and he would be at the left. Let me get this straight. That's right, but you know, I still call him sir because he was a general when I was Lieutenant Colonel. So he's still sort of being. You know, I have met so many really fabulous people in his service and, you know, I used to think that the service was like in its own special community, but I've changed my view of that in recent years because I've found that the people I meet in the service these days, they're part of the larger community. They're not contained in any way. They're among us and they, especially in Hawaii. That's what I see in you. This is, you know, I hate to say it's a job, but it is a job. You probably see it as more than a job because it's serving the country and all. Fact is that you're our neighbor and our friend and our buddy and it's so nice to see the military being connected the way it is in Hawaii. How do you feel about that? I mean, are you, you go to the supermarket, do you wear your uniform? Well, Jay, you know, we definitely are present all around, there's no question. And we like to view ourselves as part of the Ohana. You know, I'm so grateful for the relationship that Admiral Davidson has with the governor. You know, the governor has said on many occasions that, you know, we are the second largest industry here in Hawaii in terms of economic contributions, you know, with military construction, with the jobs, the contractors from our shipyard. So we're very grateful to be a part of that Ohana. Do a lot of training here. So we take care of the land as if it's our own. And we're part of the community, just like this fight against COVID-19, we have definitely been a part of doing our share of fighting against COVID-19 and staying close and linked in. Yeah. Well, I have felt that for a long time that the military is part of us and we're part of them. Likewise, I have felt that, you know, we are part of the government and the government is part of us. Sometimes in recent years, I've questioned that and my friends have questioned it, you know, from administration to administration, I wouldn't say that. But the military has always been, you know, a stable sidekick, so to speak, to the economy and the community. So tell me, give me more about your career. What did you go through? I mean, I don't think when you joined, there were that many women in high office in the military and you had to cut some territory, didn't you? No, you're exactly right. In fact, when I entered, women were not really allowed to serve in combat arms and that changed in 2015. Now you see, you know, 30 plus Rangers, our first special forces graduate, all the combat arms being infantry, artillery, you know, armor, all of those jobs. So I was commissioned into the Military Intelligence Corps, but ironically, my first assignment was to a combat arms unit, Third Infantry Division in Germany in field artillery as their fire support intelligence officer. So although I was an intelligence officer, that was my first assignment. So it was really combat arms, field artillery men that were my bosses and it was incredible. There weren't a lot of women, there were very few of us in 1990 assigned to Wurzburg, Germany, which was the home of the Third Infantry Division, Rock of the Marn, the Audie Murphy Division. And so, you know, it was getting adjusted and being from Hawaii, that was another piece, right? I was born raised here. My dad's from Maui and we're up in Oahuwa. So- Did people associate you in the 442nd and 100th Battalion that they see Hawaii in that lens? You know, they think of Hawaii, you know, Hula Dancers singing with the Hula Lea. So, you know, I didn't do either of them. So, but I was a good intel officer and I worked hard. And that's one thing we do really well here in Hawaii. We work hard and we take care of our family, right? So I feel I brought that. And as a result, you know, all of these male mentors helped to mentor me and I'm really grateful for that because I think that paved the way to give me the hard jobs and not be afraid to do that. And then eventually to see General Dunwoody, who was our first four-star, General Andrew Dunwoody, she sort of paved the way for women. And then after that we had, you know, Lori Robertson, the Pacific Air Force's commander, she became Northcom commander. We've seen a four-star in every service now. Women make up about 16% of our total force and about 10% are high-ranking officers. And we've now just seen the Air Force with its first senior enlisted and also the National Guard Bureau had command chief Jolinsky Hall. So we're seeing high-level females in the enlisted rank as well as the officer rank, which is phenomenal. How do they do? I mean, I guess they do pretty well if they get promoted, but how do they do against, you know, people who are used to having, you know, senior officers all male? You know, I think the transition over time has, you know, been, it has changed. You know, I know that when I was in the 29th Infantry Brigade, a Hawaiian National Guard, we were deployed to Iraq. I was the first female and senior intelligence officer for the two, S2 for the brigade. And, you know, working with all infantrymen, that was a transition for some older ones, but younger ones, very comfortable with a lot of the convoys. And we've been in persistent conflict for the past 20 years in Iraq and Afghanistan. And over time, people have gotten, you know, used to it. We saw Leanne Hester, who was for Silver Star. I was in Iraq when she deflected an ambush that happened on one of the main supply routes and she received the Silver Star for her courage and bravery. So we're starting to see more of that and the younger generation are used to that. So it's, though my age and beyond that have to see the transition, but those who are coming up, they're pretty much used to, I think, the way that, you know, things are portrayed within their life, you know, the millennials, it's changed, it's changing. What one thing strikes me is that, I don't know if the civilian world realizes how much technology is involved. I'm sure as an intelligence officer, you saw plenty of that. But it strikes me that, you know, really have to be open to new technologies. You have to study the new technologies. You have to be good at the new technologies and you have to fit into, you know, a unit program where you use them to the advantage of the unit and the mission. How has that been? I mean, in the civilian world, my observation is a lot of people, both male and female, you know, they have barriers to that. They, you know, they, oh, gee, I'm a lot. I don't know how to operate a computer, you know, this is way beyond me, but you can't be that in the military, right? You have to get into it. You have to know how it works, not only the computer, but everything in terms of military technology, right? You're absolutely right, Jay. You know, when you look at even our, and infantry men that we define, you know, we're at 75 years today or yesterday, the end of World War II, and we saw that idea of an infantry men back then, and that one today, where you have Blue Force tracker, technology, GPS that relies on cyber and space for accurate targeting, our precision guided munitions, our ability to touch the globe from wherever we are, our ability to defend and also conduct offensive operations, anywhere, any place, any time, relies on that technology of cyber and space. And so you've seen the new creation of the Space Force and our cyber, you know, cyber command as well, and our strategic command. So all of our, you know, nuclear generation and capabilities are linked into this piece. But even now with this COVID-19, we've had to use the technology to continue operations. We've seen this with Rim of the Pacific that just happened. It just ended this past week. Yeah, 22 ships, we covered that last week. Yes, and so you saw the technology to just be able to operate at sea and do the complex activities that needed to take place all at sea. And also our training, linking in training from around the globe, command post training exercise, targeting training exercise, testing innovation, all using technology. So, you know, we expect, and we're grateful for the young men and women who join our forces and come with a lot of these skills already because it will definitely be needed and used. Yeah, and they changed their lives in the sense that when they're done, retired, or, you know, they leave, whatever, they're really well trained and they're comfortable with the technology, which means they're more marketable in the marketplace. I mean, I know my own experience, I was managing a law firm for a long time. And if I had a veteran, you know, who was applying to our firm, that was a really good characteristic and we were always likely to hire the veteran as against the non-veteran because of that, because of the comfort with the system, the comfort with the organization, the comfort with the technology. And speaking of organization strikes me there's so much to talk about here, really. If I spend my time in the service, if I spend my time going up the ranks, so to speak, I learned how to get along with people. It's like, you know, it's like being on a submarine. You really have to be comfortable with everybody on the submarine. There's no room for an argument there. You just, you have to be at one with the unit and the command. And, you know, that teaches you something, doesn't it? It changes you over time. It makes you a better person in the context of the group, right? Absolutely. You know, in a solid organization, you know, they said there's no I and team, right? That we have to work together because it takes every part, every piece to make something happen, just like it does on a ship, a carrier, aircraft, or, you know, an infantry unit taking an objective. Every person has a role and they must know their role because that, you know, that weak link or that one person that's left out, you know, can interrupt the entire formation. So that's pivotal. That's foundational in our military. So as a result, we invest a lot of time in leadership development. You know, we have a term in the Army called Leadership LDR SHIP, Loyalty, Duty, Respect, Selfless Service, Honor, Integrity, and Personal Courage. And I usually like to tell cadets when I get to speak at UHROTC because they often invite me, is that, you know, that's not something you just rattle off your tongue, something you have to live. That means you are loyal to one another and you have a duty to do your best. And we have programs in place that takes care of our battle buddies, our shipmates, our fellow airmen, and Coast Guardsmen. And, you know, and even within our headquarters here, we have a leadership development program that you would think in a staff. Oh, well, maybe sometimes they don't need to really focus on it because they're busy at staff work. No, every organization, I would say in the civilian organization, for example, Simon Sinek, Leaders Eat Last, you know, that model of taking care of everyone before yourself. That's selfless service. And that's what we've been doing. Our chief of staff has been integrating that. Our commander has been integrating, you know, getting inspired by others. So we've had, you know, starting a series of webinars to get, hear people's stories to be inspired, to encourage us, to observe those things like suicide prevention that's gonna happen next week. Observe these amazing events like the 75th so that we can get inspired and courage to know that what we're doing matters to our families, to the people of Hawaii and this country and the world as a matter of fact. You know, training is so important. You know, it's interesting. You know, I spent a lot of my professional time on Bishop Street and I noticed that the local companies don't really spend a lot of time training people. In fact, they resisted. There was a training program where the state of Hawaii was gonna pay, I guess it was an individual, ex dollars over his lifetime or her lifetime to take courses in this and that and the other thing. And it failed. The legislature was not that excited about it and ultimately it was defunded and that was the end of that. But I said to myself, she was, you know, any job, any career, any corporate environment will benefit with human resources that are well-trained. And my own experience in the Coast Guard was they trained us. They trained us all the time. They trained us in so many things and it was all, you know, very robust, very nutritious. And I really think the civilian community can take a page out of your book, so to speak and focus on the training. Because really in the larger picture, it's well worth the effort to train people. It's well worth the cost of training them. At the end of the day, you're investing in your own workforce. And maybe when we reimagine our community after COVID is gone, we'll remember this lesson. Absolutely, Jay, you're spot on. You know, one of the number one priorities for our joint force is readiness. And in order to have readiness, you have to have a trained force. You have to have a trained force because in order to deter and maintain peace and security, you have to have a strong force. You have to have capability and resolve those two things equal deterrent. You can't deter at your adversaries if they don't believe that you're capable. And in order to be capable, you have to practice and train with the complex equipment that we have, complex maneuvers of a joint force. And that's one of our priorities is joint force lethality. So that means, you know, air, sea, ground coordination, that just doesn't happen easily. With the complex weapons systems we have today, you have to train. You know, it's not just, you know, fire maneuver in itself is complex. Fire maneuver on multiple levels, even you add cyber and space, now we have even more complexities, multi-dimensional, multi-faceted. So the training areas even here in Hawaii are so critical. And so we hold those dear as a way to train our warriors. So we take care of them as well. We take care of these places. We want you to train because we want you to be, we want you in the service to be rounded individuals. We want you to be the best kind of citizens we can have. We want you to have vision. We want you to have philosophical integrity, if you will, and haven't heard that term very much. But you know what I mean. And so you talked about going to Germany, right? And spending time in Germany. And a lot of people in the military, they have career patterns, kind of like what you had. They spent a couple of years here, a couple of years there, and they pick up culture points. They pick up, you know, travelers broadening, right? And at the end of the day, if you have one of those connected, that's kind of careers, you come out to be much more of a whole person. You understand various cultures, understand diversity. You want to stand, you know, the world. And I think that makes for a better military, it makes for a better person, but it makes for a better military to have that kind of person in the military. And I'm sure you run into them all the time. And I would, and it is my question, I took a while to get to it. But this sophistication, this awareness, is actually something that has increased in the US military in the past couple of decades. Am I right? I think you're absolutely right, Jay. You know, particularly in this region at US Indo-Pacific Command, and you mentioned how broad it is, over 52% of the Earth's surface. It's the largest and oldest combatant command. But we deal with 36 countries. And just in this assignment alone, you know, bilateral defense dialogues that I've been able to do with Mongolia, Bangladesh, Timor-Leste, or East Timor as we know it. You know, places that, you know, often we don't talk about, it doesn't end up in our broadcast news. What's happening in the Philippines? What's happening in Korea? Or our allies, you know, Japan, Korea, Australia, Philippines, Thailand, you know, five of our seven bilateral treaty allies are in this region. And we learn, you have to understand culture. You have to appreciate it. But one thing I gotta say, Jay, is here in Hawaii, we are the crossroads of the Pacific. We are a link to this region. And I think it's a plus for everybody who lives here. And that we have something here to offer the rest of the world, to show how we can bring people together. And those in the military have that experience. But if you think about it, less than 0.5% currently serve in our nation's military, while we have many veterans like yourself who are out there who helped also with that vast understanding, it really is a small percentage who serve. So, you know, this idea of service and expanding that capability, whether it's the Peace Corps or USAID around the globe, maybe it's something that our nation could continue to push. Oh, you hit a personal peeve for me, because I didn't like to see the draft terminated back in the 70s. I would have liked to see it go forward because I feel, you know, that the greatest generation, part of that whole element of the greatest generation, which we're celebrating, you know, in the 75th anniversary of the end of the war, is that people felt they were part of the service, part, and to be in the service was to do national service was to be part of the country. And you couldn't turn your back on it. You know, when you get out of school, you say to yourself, what's my connection with the federal government? Well, I pay taxes, that's it, that's all. You know, what did Kennedy say? Speak not about what the country can do for you. What can you do for the country? Because it's our country. And so I have felt for years, and from that point forward, that we missed out on something when we terminated the draft. And we better, A, for the people who get drafted, whether they go into the military or into another kind of eliminationary type experience for the government, for the country. B, it would be good for the country, and C, it would be good for the world, the community, to see the US do that sort of thing, because it leads to that certain sense of citizen diplomacy, military citizen diplomacy, which I want to talk to you about also. But don't, do you agree? I don't know, you don't have to take a political position on this, Susie, but do you agree that it would be better all around if we had more, we're gonna call it reservists, if you will, more citizen soldiers? Well, so I'll say this, Jay, while during this COVID-19 period in March, I believe the National Committee, Congressional Committee on National Service came out with their report, but it went under the radar. Nobody has seen it yet, and Congress has been so busy with COVID-19, they haven't been able to look at it. But it is a long document on national service requirements for younger people. And it lays out, I did look at it, because I thought it was fascinating, it lays out options on national service that can be full and wide ranging. Like you said, not just military service, but national service. And I think that report is worth looking at for our congressional team, as well as our nation, to think and ponder and ask ourselves those questions. You know, our reserve forces, our citizen soldiers, or sailors and airmen and coast guardsmen, definitely make up a significant part of our force. You know, our Army, General McConville is our Chief of Staff of the Army, and when General Milley, who's now our Chairman, would say that he has a one million soldier army. And about half of that is Guard and Reserve, which is our component two and three. That makes up the force. And since we've been at war or in conflict for the past 20 plus years, all of our states, Guard and Reserve have been deployed overseas. So you have a different way in which that we address our nation's security need, using its total force in a way that some balance for everyone. And we've seen that when our reserve forces were needed, they were there. Yeah, and I imagine you're familiar with Pacific Forum, used to be with CSIS. And the whole thing about seeing a little people in a room all mixed up with senior officers and foreign service officers and people in the federal government when you're past here and others, it's all together. And what it tells me, and my experience, by the way, in the Coast Guard was in this direction too, is that the military in recent years, let's say in the 2030 years, has become more citizen diplomats, military diplomats, where they are shoulder to shoulder with military officers of other countries, trying to make everybody like each other. APCSS and like it keeps a good example of that, then and always, favorite project. And so I feel that this is a good direction. This is the direction it makes, as I said before, whole people and the whole people can get along with everyone and have the interest of the nation at heart, but also bring people together around the world. It's a sort of statement of kindness and caring and concern, and that nobody should have an argument. And if that's part of the military, that is a wonderful element of the military. And I see the military going that direction. Do you? Absolutely. We have an extensive security cooperation program. Just like you said, it's really important that we work shoulder to shoulder. We have multiple exercises, engagements, events, dialogues that happen with every country in the region, because it allows us to work together for many humanitarian assistance disaster release exercises, because in this region, the rim of fire, we have more natural disasters in any place else in the world. That's one thing guaranteed. And how do we work together, take all of our assets and work shoulder to shoulder? And work together also to ensure a free and open Indo-Pacific, to ensure that the rules-based international order is followed, abided by, by everyone, that the air, land and sea are, that are in international spaces and places that we can fly, sail and operate wherever international law allows. And we do this shoulder to shoulder with our like-minded allies and partners. At the same time, we live in a world which is complex and some nations want to be aggressive sometimes, and other nations want to put a lot of money and assets and arrogant pride into weapons, and they want to push their neighbors around and so forth. And we have to remain strong. We have to, at least as a deterrent. And the question I put to you is something that I've heard both sides of, and I like your thought about it, is that some people say, the United States military sense, it's not as strong as it used to be. And that is part of a geopolitical decline that we find happening various places in the world for some years now. And the other side of that discussion is no. The United States is stronger, smarter, soft power, smart power than we have ever had. And if we have to get into a scrape, we're well able to handle it. And we, our military and our intelligence systems remain the best in the world. What do you think? What are your thoughts? Well, Jay, we have the best soldier, sailors, airmen, marines and coast guardmen in our United States military today. There's no question. You know, I think it's clear what we invest in the individual, that's what makes us strong. This idea of what we stand for, democracy and protecting, we are a service for the people. We interrupt based on supporting a authoritarian regime that the people are beholden because you've got your thumb on them and it's not one based on fear. This is based on people who have volunteered to be where we are, to serve our community. When you look around the globe, where do you find that? It's here in the United States. It's the people that make it the best in the world. With the kind of technologies that are coming out of our brilliant universities, research and development, with the most advanced system, looking at technologies like artificial intelligence, unmanned systems, those come from our nation, people in our universities. People are flocking from all around the world to attend our schools. And why? Because we have some of the best minds that we bring it together. We're a country based on inclusion, diversity, all of that makes our country strong. That's why I would say we're the greatest nation. Yeah, and in a funny way, your military holds the flame of morality, of decency, of ethical conduct. We look to you, I think, to maintain that. Never to let go of that. You're out there and you're representing the country and you actually lead the country in terms of that kind of global morality. Very interesting. So one of the founders of APCSS, Hank Stackpole, who died recently, we had a show about him with Emo Godner and Thomas Fargo. And it was very interesting to talk to them about it. And I remember we had a general Stackpole on our radio show 15 years ago. And when he was finished, I said to him, you know, I don't really know you, except I feel that I would follow you anywhere. And Susie, I want to tell you, I would follow you anywhere too. Well, I thank you, Jay. Thank you for your support. It's a nice thing you're doing. And I told you before that I got some time up at Camp Smith there in the Indo-Pakam Command, then known as, gee, it was West. I forget what it was called. It was two or three names ago. Right, SINGPAC. Whoa, that goes back then. And I had some time with Admiral McCain there and I never forget those days. So I hope I get to see you again in the next few years and I wish you well in your career and your time up at Camp Smith, protecting us, okay? Thank you so much, Jay. Thank you for your service and what you continue to do. Thank you, Susie. Major General Susie Varislam, a local girl who is defending the nation. Thank you so much.