 roll call, all the person Pirella, all the person Salazar, here. Okay, all the person Salaglio is excused, and an old person, Walden. Okay, we'll start with the Pardalegents. Okay, since we have a guest here, I think we'll do the intervention of staff. I'll start off myself. I'm Dean Deckard, all the person from District 6, and the chair of the Public Works Committee. Gracias Pirella, all the person from District 7, and vice chair. Andrea Walden, all the person of District 10, and no chair. My name is Al, I live on Wiedemeyer Street in Shelegan. I'm just a resident. I was coming in. Okay. My name is Department of Public Works. Thomas Cameron, assistant city attorney. All right, so how's the Department of Public Works? David Bebal, Public Works. Amanda Salazar, all to her District 3. Chesan Blasiole, Public Works. Yolk. Yolk. Yolk. Yolk. Yolk. Yolk. Yolk. Yolk. Yolk. Yolk. Yolk. Yolk. Yolk. Yolk. Yolk. Yolk. Yolk. Yolk. Yolk. Yolk. Yolk. Yolk. Yes. Second. Motion has been made. We have peace with it at this point. All in favor. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. And choose aye. Okay. 3.1 моя Parking. Discussion Discussion only. I guess real quickly. and I just would like to read for those that have not seen this, but I can at least read it and that will at least start the discussion. Basically, it states, I just got my winter clothes on and slept downstairs outside to sweep the snow off my car so I can drive it 50 feet to the other side of the street. Why? Question mark. No parking lanes on my street are on plow. The idea of moving our cars every day is to accommodate plows at night. They've been missing in action now for several days, but we who work at home or are retired or in bed sick or just don't have a reason to drive anywhere today must go outside and move our cars from one side to the other for the plows. For when they don't come, for when there is no snow, your God only knows why. I've given up. I just want you to know how enormously annoying it is to do this 50 feet of driving for the plows when there's no snow to plow. Every damn day I'm beyond fed up. It's not fair. It's not right. I thought you would understand that. Signed by Mr. Mike Smith. So wanted to make sure that that was part of the record is some key forward to sign. So with that, I think what we decided to do is at least have a discussion on winter parking rules and at least to give, I guess, others and the folks in attendance and at the meeting here an understanding and the rationale of why it's in place and what it is and kind of how it was evolved to this stage. So Jason's done quite a bit of research on this topic. Winter parking rules has been in place for a long time. And I guess with that, we'll turn it over to Jason, our street superintendent. 2017, we updated the snow emergency rules. And as part of that, I looked at the winter parking rules for the top 20 cities by population in the state. Then a few of the surrounding communities that are on has been. The vast majority of these communities have alternate street parking here around. We only have alternate street parking through December through April from midnight to 6 a.m. That is one of the changes we made when we looked at the snow and more coordinates. It was from 2 a.m. till midnight. We moved it to midnight because typically we have a shift changer on 1130. So those guys would go out and plow and then they'd have to go back and start over again at 2 o'clock because technically cars were supposed to move. But we had three listening sessions. We made presentations, common counsel, and then negotiated or committee here at that time came up with different ideas and goals. The vast majority of municipalities have no parking on any street during the snow emergency. That wasn't something this committee or the residents wanted. So we do have the alternate side parking between midnight and 6 a.m. The reason for that is so that we can get the car, the snow to the curb. If we don't do that, the streets are going to creep and you're going to park not over that unplowed area, you're going to park where the street is plowed and those cars are going to get narrow or the lanes are going to get narrower and narrower and it's the point where there's a large portion of the city that's quite old where you're not going to be able to get a plow, an ambulance, or a fire truck. So I did go around today, but that's not the picture I want to start with. This is Wiedemeyer with two inches of snow and it's already plowed onto the one side. If there's no alternate street parking on my plow and I'm not going to be able to plow one side of the street, it's just going to be plowed where that plow is. Eventually that snow is going to build up and those cars are going to start moving towards the center lane and I'm not going to get a plow down if this is a normal winter. This is an abnormal winter, the lack of snow. So I can see why people are frustrated while the street parking has no, and I would say in 10 or 15 years if this is the new climate, then this committee needs to maybe adjust this, but I'm not convinced that this is going to be the normal this year, but that is the purpose of the alternate side parking. So today I went around and this is downtown, there's already people not following the rule, this is a different issue. But you can see these cars that have been parked already, so imagine all these cars throughout the city. These were taken today. Yeah, these are all from today. So and again, the other thing I think you have to notice is that car has not been moved, it's got snow still on it from over 24 hours ago and there's an ordinance in place that cars have to be moved every 24 hours. And you can find examples of cars just parked all over the city today that haven't been moved and they're just parked there. So we're going around and you can see we haven't been able to get one side completely already cleared with alternate side parking. Without it, I don't think we'd be able to provide a safe service without it, which is my opinion. When you think you have, like Jason showed on his spreadsheet, Shabuigan has in by far some of the most liberal on-street parking regulations compared to our peer communities, Manitoba, Anomaly Falls, all the other top 20 communities in the state of Wisconsin are much more restrictive in terms of their on-street parking. And Shabuigan is very similar in terms of its age, its density, its compactness and narrowness of streets as well. So this isn't that Shabuigan is unique, we can't enforce winter parking, it's a matter of being able to be able to respond to the needs of the community and keeping the street safe and being able to have equipment, access. And then the other, there's a little bit of confusion because City of Milwaukee does have an exception to alternate street parking. It's not the entire city, it's UWM in the near south side, and it's only when a snow emergency is called and that those streets go into alternate side parking. But if we look at something like that, I'd have to call a snow emergency a lot more often. It's relying on people to remember, and then it's also, the forecasts have been all over and they're wrong a lot of the time. So I mean, someone's going to bed and I think they're okay, and we get four inches of snow by the time they get up in the morning, those cars aren't going to be moved by doing that, even though the winter has been kind of dry. I don't think that's a good practice going back and forth. Another thing is those areas, and this would be very unpopular, is they go in and they tow heavy. So they call a snow emergency and you're not off in those time periods, they got tow trucks lined up and you're pulling those cars out of there. So it sounds like a practice would be something, but I think our citizens would probably be a little more upset with us if we can't do one of the worst. Yeah, I looked at it over and over the years, been part of these communities and things like this, and although it's not ideal, it is ideal as far as it's the best that we can do. I think it is, I know it's frustrating when we look outside, but one of the arguments that I hear about is people saying, well, I got to move my car, well, your car shouldn't be parked anyways for 24 hours is the limit. That is the limit of having a car parked in the cities of like, I mean, it doesn't get enforced as much as maybe it should, but that is also on books. So anyone else have a discussion? Sure. For example, I need to walk, so there is no restriction, right? For year-round. For year-round. Yeah. So no alternate overnight parking. Right. Do I understand? In the winter, you can't park on designated streets during December, January, February, March. Right. And those would be the city bus routes. Right. I don't know which other designated streets it would be. You would have to walk. But then, so how does it work there? I can see that it would work. There's basically no parking on city street during snow emergency. So just during snow emergency, which I don't know, it is about five inches or I don't know. Right. About that. It gets over five inches. That's when we start to look at them. How are they doing emergency work? I mean, I think that there is some on a stool, right? I mean, there is a fondue lock, same thing. Alternate parking. Alternate. So fondue lock, it is non-restricted. For year-round. So, for example, if you look at Omni Falls, they have year-round alternate site parking. Winter parking rules that applies. Oh. Rainfield year-round alternate site parking. So you go to Pondalax, they don't have a year-round parking restrictions. Right. But they do have winter restrictions. Oh, yeah, yeah. Alternate parking between November 15th and March 15th. Sorry, that was confusing. No, no, that's fine. For example, with Alice, no, that they have the, so I'm just trying to see, I don't know, Eau Claire is not restricted. Where? It's just, the side parking is required for 72 hours, so there's no emergency. Yeah, Eau Claire is probably the one that's less stringent than us. So they're non-restricted, non-restricted, they have snow emergencies, and then during a snow emergency, parking is required for 72 hours alternate site parking. So I'm guessing as they're calling every two inches of snow, they're calling us probably a snow emergency. And they seem to say, you know, no overnight parking year-round. Yeah. Very good. No, actually, I was looking at, yeah. So, you know, my point is that the, not concerning, of course, we all understand constituents that are frustrated with this, right? Right. We all know that. And so we try to find a solution. This seems to be the best solution. The point is that we almost go with, it looks like with the current rule, we almost go with default, in default, for an disadvantage for constituents versus to us as a city. Because by default, we say, okay, we do that because if there is a snow emergency or if the snow becomes too much anyway, even if it is not a snow emergency, at least we know that we can plow. Instead, if we wanted to have restriction only in case of snow emergencies, then we have to rely on the constituents to take action. There is something that is not quite right in that rationale to me, the fact that we want to go on default for four months to be sure to work, to not have issues sometime, some of the times. I mean, there is something that is not quite, believe me, and I agree with all this, that we don't have a solution, alternative solution. So out of all that, it comes out that during a snow emergency, 84% of those 20%, 20 cities, 84 of them say no parking on any street at all during a snow emergency. So year-round parking restrictions, out of that 20, 44% is alternate side parking, year-round. And then almost 20% have a permanent, so they charge their citizens, which we do not. And then 31% say year-round, there is no parking on any street. And then the other fewer, 24 hours. So by a snow, that's clear, and then winter parking. So the majority we use year-round, which is some sort of alternate street parking or no parking. And then winter parking, 25% of the other ones don't, and then no parking for 5%. So what we're doing is, kind of standard operation procedures. We can't get a lot of citizens to follow the rules now. Now if it was to the discretion of the weather channel, or me having to call a snow emergency for every two inches, then there'd be no parking on dead ends, full birds, call the sacks, or any of the main roads. So during a snow emergency, you can park anywhere you want on the side streets from 6.01 a.m. to 12 p.m., which is quite accommodating by 12 a.m. To 12 a.m., excuse me. And then you can't park on any of the emergency routes, we call them the red routes, dead ends, call the sacks, and mullipartards. So then the alternate side parking during that snow emergency stays the same. So I mean, it might not sound like we have accommodating, but when you look at how other cities are managing it, we're very accommodating. The other thing is, even with the alternate side parking, people that have driveways hate us. Because we'll plow, and we'll get it cleaned up, and then I have to come back when those cars move to the other side, and I got to clean all those up. And I fill up driveways a second time. And then I'm going to go back around probably again tomorrow, because cars that haven't been parked. And then neighbors call and say, I don't have a garage. I have to get to my sidewalk, and the car's just moved, and I don't want to climb up all over the snow. So I'm going to go back again. Even by doing the alternate side parking, I'm spending more on gas. I beat the trucks up more and more equipment. So, I mean, that's why a lot of these people, excuse me, a lot of these municipalities go parking, so they do what it wants. But we've put a priority on parking over snow removal. That's the biggest thing. I think people have the ability, you know, that people in the city should probably have the ability to park on the street. Whereas a lot of the communities, I mean, the easiest thing for us would be having no parking on the street. That would be the best thing you could go through. We would have the cleanest streets around. But by the same token, there's a lot of people that have nowhere else to go, so where would they park? This is a prime example. We have a boat, because it's cheaper to park on the street than to store your boat. And then the homeowner parks here. My plow comes around the corner, and they can't plow there. And they go around. And then actually, I think it's not your area. And then every year, the mayor calls me, because I didn't plow this. And then finally, I found out it was the residents' car that's parked. And I'm like, oh, there's a boat that can't park in the driveway. And then it's like, I got to come back and make sure that I clear up her parking spot for her. So we mean it's people that are storing boats and cars that don't run and parking on the street. So we don't even maximize all of our off-street parking, which would help. And then the other problem is in the older parts of town, these houses and driveways were built for one car. There's two family, two spouses and partners have cars, and they have a kid or two kids. The next thing you know, this house has got four cars, and my cul-de-sac, I'm dealing with it now. Because dad leaves for work early, and he's home early. Well, the kids have to get up and move the car for him to go to work. And they're not getting up at five to do that. So they park on the cul-de-sac, even though they have a long driveway. Now, when the plow comes through, our cul-de-sac never gets cleaned until the last thaw, because there's always shuffled cars around. Even though I'm telling my neighbor, I'm like, first I said park on the inside. I thought we didn't get that. But I'm like, just put your cars on the driveway once, don't worry. And we don't even maximize that. I think one other thing is, too, would be a planning issue as landlords start entering houses to somehow provide off-street parking. If there's an alley, and it's just grass that require a slab of concrete. So they don't plan until they have a place to park. So I think as a planning and development initiative, that could be something that could be looked into. But it seems like as of right now, there's no perfect solution. Definitely going to be people who are upset with it, which is understandable. But I lived in Milwaukee, and there were whole streets you couldn't park on. I remember having to park four blocks down, right? Because there's whole blocks that you can't go to. And this is kind of like a much more playback solution. I mean, you can park on the street, you won't get towed for the most part, or ticketed in Milwaukee. They were very harsh on tickets, and towing, but I've gotten my car towed. Were you on the east side? No, well, I was in their market area, which is very strict about that. So, I mean, I understand the frustration, it's annoying, but I think it's probably the best solution rather than harsher restrictions, where we're telling people cars or cutting off whole blocks. Unless you're like an apartment area where you have parking, it's kind of the best solution, what we have to deal with, in my opinion. Is anybody else there? Absolutely. I mean, this was discussion only, I know the frustration, but I don't see a difference. Unless someone can come up with a miracle solution, I just don't see it. I guess the only solution is just kind of having conversations with constituents. Why it's in place, yeah. Yeah, why it is in place. Because it's not like we don't care for that. We just think, you know, you need to punish you guys. Yeah, it's not out to get somebody. It really isn't. I don't think the police aren't actively going out and trying to ticket people, especially when it is the weather is nice, you know, nicer. I'm not saying that that doesn't mean that somebody is to park on the wrong side is not going to get a ticket, but I don't know. It's certain. Yeah, since you're here, did you have any comments? Do you want to open it up if you want to? No, I appreciate it. I think this information is helpful. I agree with that gentleman that as a resident, I've gotten two tickets already this year, and they were the two days that I parked on the wrong side of the street. So of course I was frustrated because I don't like getting tickets. Nobody does, but I didn't have this information. That's why I came today, because you get frustrated when you don't understand. And I agree with that gentleman. If there's any way for the city to educate people like myself, it would probably keep my blood pressure in check. I truly didn't understand the rationale and I appreciate the opportunity to hear the rationale. It makes complete sense. I mean, I've been in Milwaukee and I guess I've seen, you know, that that is a bit of a debacle. The streets are very narrow. And, you know, I understand your dilemma of trying to appease everybody for sure. So I get it. And that's why I'm here. And if you could just get the police department to lay off me a little bit. But I assume that's a different committee. I don't know much about it. So the room now goes through the end of April. So why is that wrong? Two reasons. I have the last couple of years. I've gotten more snow in April and December and January. And the rule went away. And they were especially in your area down by the lake where it's real narrow. Clara, the truck out there just drove by because there was no way they were getting down without taking a bunch of mirrors. That makes Thomas upset. And I got more complaints about the snow in April because we didn't do a good job because there were streets that took a couple of days before we could get there or the cars. The other reason is as part of that stormwater permit, which I don't want to rehash the entire last committee, street sweeping is very important. And early in the season, it is the heaviest with the debris. I can't sweep the streets unless it's over 32 degrees because there has to be dust, just pressure with the water for those street sweepers to work. So we go into your part of town. We go up over by the Oliverson Salzers area where there's not a lot of off-street parking as soon as I can in April. And I sweep those areas because when an off-site parking goes, there's sections of the curb. I will never be able to get again. So I'd like to try to at least sweep those dense areas without a lot of off-street parking before the alternate street parking has. Otherwise, those gutters are just going to be filled with debris because there's constantly cars parked on both sides of the street. So when it ended in March, sometimes I could do it, but oftentimes the weather was, but the temperatures was too cold for us to street sweep. So that's part of the reason why I asked that I be extended to the end of April. Mr. Chair, actually, Mr. Smith asked me that he said that he couldn't attend tonight. So he asked me to deliver a message. OK. And it's a comment he would have loved to be here to attend. But he, you know, for COVID reasons, he doesn't want to expose himself. So he's arrived today. He sent it to me today. He says two nights ago, it's no. It looked like an inch or two. One night ago, that is last night, we parked on the outside of the street so that the even side could be plowed. Last night, the even side was not plowed. Why did we have to park on the outside last night? I want the winter parking rules changed. I propose that winter parking rules exist only when there is no to plow. After all, that is the reason for winter parking rules in the first place. He has a proposal and he says cars must all park on one side of the street when we have a snowfall greater than two inches. I wanted to read his message and I appreciate that the director people read the first one because Mrs. Smith has been in contact with me on this issue for the last year on a regular basis. So I wanted him heard. Unfortunately, as I said, he would be happy to to speak to you directly. He's not able to. I know that there are other constituents from other other persons that are other people that are also. Voicing their frustration. And I have one last question related question. Do we know how many? Do we know how many? So how many of the Sheboygan's households do not have. In those parking, I might have percentage wise. Not no, I believe we. And I believe we took maps of concrete area for off street for off street parking when we did that, but that could be in the G. I. S. Right. Let me check with our map guy because when we did the presentation, I remember something where they took the satellite pictures and they could. Kind of highlight the areas that had off street parking and did not have off street parking or limited. But I don't think we had it narrowed down. It was more of a visual from what I recall. But I'll have to check on that tomorrow. I didn't know if the map, but they were to save them in that. Well, it would be an interesting data to. To look at because, you know, things may be different city by city, depending on that situation, even neighbor by neighbor. Right. So, and I think it would be nice to be able to do something where we get to inches of snow, everyone moves, but the practice of it, people actually doing it. And then I've this year alone, I've had four inches on the south side and half an inch up on the north, you know, on the north side and vice versa. So that and I guess the one comment that I would make is that we've had it's been tougher and tougher to get communication out to the residents. I think that's that that's done, you know, we just don't have the same communication that we had in the past. I don't think I would be, you know, I kind of worry about, you know, getting that information out to the public and having public respond to it sometimes. Well, and that's that that's the issue. I think, you know, that's one of the issues. So what do I think that nowadays with the apps capability that would be easier than in the past? I mean, everybody. I don't know, I mean, but then you have people that don't, you still have a lot of elderly that don't do the do the, you know, the technology, you know, you know, there's a lot of that don't. So we can we can reach out to the Sheboygan Press. We can even do, you know, a radio interview with the WHBL. And basically how we talked this evening and gave the background, we would be more than willing to have that kind of dialogue with the media as well. We have done that. I mean, it's true. We have just made the comment this week or not this week a little while back that it's amazing for years. I would come to a public works meeting and I'd have a press reporter at every meeting. Every meeting and every meeting the next day or the two days after, there'd be a little article about our meeting about what we talked about, what were the topics and what was discussed. It's just it's a different it's different. It's gosh. And so what we're finding from a staff event talking and getting our message out, it's it's a lot more burden on us to make sure. And we have the social media, we have a Facebook, we have our website, but you're right, not everybody is in tune to that. And we can send press releases to the Sheboygan Press or to the radio. But we're at their mercy a lot if they want to hook on to it or expand upon it. So but something like this, I'm sure we would get plenty of interaction if we would go to and talk with the HPL, especially in the morning show. Sure. Sure. Then I've been to the King Park area meeting. Oh, yes. That's another. I mean, they're one of the better neighbor associations. So Rick's had me usually there a couple of times a year. Yeah, I don't know if your constituent, if he has availability to watch this, but this is going to be online, you know, so he can maybe watch this and maybe he can listen to the explanations, whether he agrees with it or not, you know. But at least he can at least listen to the explanation that has happened. You know, I've had email, I believe email or phone conversations with Mr. Smith. You're to go also. Yeah, I would put what Mrs. Mead to it. OK. Oh, thank you. OK. I know you can't I know you can't see me. But I did post in the chat sort of the link to the DPW website and sort of it shows the winter parking roles and what's on there. I think, you know, like director people were sharing of about getting a little bit more elaborate. If there could be some sort of language that's created that can be reused each year that sort of breaks this down in a more bite size way that you can not only post on to your website, but then you could also have someone use on your social media. So I see that you have a Facebook page, you have Twitter. I think it'd be worth the time to to put some of that language. I get the breakdown of it, but also understanding the decision making behind it, right? Like, even some some highlight points. Oh, I didn't see this. Yeah, on our website, the brochure, this is what I take to the neighborhood meetings and we hand out. Where is that brochure when you look at this? Go back to the. Let me do this real quick. So that link you sent us. Yep, the word says for more information, see the details and when you're parking and so emergency, please visit the street sanitation page. And then when you click that, this is on our webpage, the map of snow emergency routes. You can get the Nixle because we do work with the police department and then more in depth, snow emergency parking rules, vehicle torrents, you can go right to the ordinance. So I can look to add more to this page. And then the brochure is straight there too. Yeah, cause I found it through your news and updates. And if you scroll down on your news and updates, it's just says winter parking rules start December 1st. And then I just clicked on read more to be honest, I wouldn't know to, I guess I would look for parking. I wouldn't look for streets and sanitation, but maybe that's just me and navigation of a website. All right. So then let me see something. It was, we moved it from December 1st to Christmas trees. It was the number one thing on the webpage. So we're starting the Christmas tree. We could probably add that back into it. So. Yeah. Okay. I mean, I think what you have is a great start. And, you know, I think just using the platforms that you have, which I think are done really well. So Bravo just using those platforms to re-get it out there. And I, you know, like I said, you could talk to the press and do the radio, but most folks are using, will be Google searching. And that's sort of when you do that, that's the page that comes up the quickest is the news and updates. So just something to point out. Thanks. Appreciate it. Okay. Any other discussion about this? I think that we'll move on to 3.2. Yeah. General Organs, December 37, 21, 22, January 17, 2022. Document 20. An Organs changing the speed limit on South 12th Street, South Carman Avenue from 35 to 25. I'll take this one. Okay. I'm going to public works over the last several weeks, last months, and also the Shavuigan PD has received complaints about vehicles as they travel northbound on South 12th Street as they enter the city of Shavuigan, like from the Wheaton Creek road area, past cons and all that kind of stuff that you get into the city. And really it's just 35 miles per hour is posted through this area until you get up to Carman Avenue, up to Carman Avenue area right here. That's where it switched to 25. And we just have a lot of speeding complaints as people are entering into the city really kind of Camelot Boulevard down here is really kind of the entrance into the city. That's where the really heavy residential is for the city. So with the complaints you've had for speeding, like I said, it kicks into 25 up here, up here by Carman Avenue. So what we've decided is to just extend quarter of a mile from Carman all the way down to the bridge just to eliminate the deducted from 35 miles an hour to 25 miles an hour. Hopefully, hopefully that'll help us people enter into the city and really heavy residential areas. It'll hopefully cut down some of the speeding. It's just some complaints I had and also I know PDD quite a bit too. Just as you enter in from the south going north on South Wall Street, just a quarter of a mile would like to reduce from 35 to 25. What's ironic is working with Thomas, we dug up the old ordinance from 1977. Back then they went from 25 to 35. So 45 years later, we're going back the other way again now. That's funny. Yeah, that makes sense because... Right by the bridge area here. You really get into the city right through here. So you're a pretty much into all residential. And we do have a solar powered 25 mile per hour sign near to kind of play through things. Okay, that's what I was just going to suggest because I think that would be the thing to... You have that, they're all solar powered. We'll sign this really heavy down here to 25 miles an hour. Something as simple as a couple of signs with the old. Okay, there's some definite level of awareness as people do, so that they're ready. I don't know, I would think that even the PDD, at this point, if people are going 35 through there, they're probably going to give out warnings, probably where the changeover is. Yeah, let me switch these signs up. We'll flag them and we'll figure something out. Maybe we'll even put our message board out there for a week or two to sign. People kind of far away. Someone's changed from 35 to 25 or we'll figure something out just to make them aware of it. It's not a drastic change. It won't be a quarter of a mile. It helps a little bit. Any discussion on this? No, I was just going to say that makes sense because if it says 35 and it changes to 25 after a while, they're probably going 40 or 45. Yes. And like I said, to the south of where we're at. This is all the fall, pretty much is a ton of Wilson area. They really changed over here by the bridge. They came up all of our way or a motion. Yes, the motion is approved. I'm all 15. Second. Motion is made and seconded. Any other discussion? All in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Cheryl, it's aye. That is approved. Next meeting date is February 15th. Seeing as we exhausted the agenda, is there a motion to adjourn? Motion to adjourn. Second. Seconded. All in favor? Aye. Aye. All in favor? Aye. We are adjourned.