 everyone and welcome. I'm James Milan and this is Talk of the Town. Today we are talking to Katrina Rosenberg who is an Arlington native. She put out a query on the Arlington list recently for building materials for a particular project and it really caught our attention. So we reached out and are happy to be able to talk to Katrina today a little bit more about that. So Katrina, first of all, thanks for joining us. We really appreciate it. Of course. Thank you so much for reaching out. Absolutely. So I kind of referred very obliquely to the project that we're talking about here. But why don't you go ahead and just explain what it was that brought you to our attention? Yeah, of course. So I had sent out an email to the all-knowing list asking if anybody had any supplies such as hardware cloth or they can maybe even ask if they had lumber or anything like that because I am building pre-release cages for squirrels so that they can get used to being in the elements but being protected for a few weeks before they get put back into nature where they belong. I suspect that some in the audience like myself might be curious about how much of this kind of thing is happening. So in other words, my experience with squirrels like I expect are a lot of people's is that, well, they're all over the place and they're doing their thing. But clearly, there are some that are in need of rescue or support or aid in this way. Can you explain what that is about? Yeah. So squirrels are everywhere. And because of that, there are wildlife rehabilitators get a ton of calls and it tends to be centered more in the spring and then in late summer when squirrels are having babies. So what often happens is if there's any kind of storm, if there's like a super windy day, babies will get knocked from their nests or entire nests will get knocked from trees and people like walking their dogs or in parks or just walking down the street, they'll often find baby squirrels just on the ground or in the gutter or on their lawns. And so there are these big periods of time where wildlife rehabilitators are just completely overwhelmed by calls for baby squirrels. I mean, other animals in addition, but because squirrels tend to have two to three litters a year, they'll be these huge rushes. And yeah, and baby squirrels are pretty helpless. Like they're usually born blind and deaf and furless. And so and they require around the clock care. So it's a pretty intensive process. So rehabbers can only take a certain number before they're like, I can't take any more. So it kind of becomes this, yeah, just this big like all hands on deck kind of thing. And so right now is about the time when these squirrels from, you know, the summer are being released. So I'm kind of. So you mentioned it's kind of an all hands on deck kind of thing. And you're one of those hands as it turns out, right? I am, yeah. Because this is not your profession. In fact, I believe you're a registered nurse. Yes, that's correct. So this is something that you are doing as a volunteer. And so a couple of things. One is are there folks who do this for a living or really is all of this kind of animal rehabilitation, most, you know, mostly in the hands of volunteers. So the thing about wildlife rehabilitators is there are organizations that do it. There's Newark, which, you know, basically there can be wildlife organizations or there can be independently licensed wildlife rehabilitators who operate independently. And they don't get funding from the state. Yeah, I was wondering where they get the funding from. Yeah. So it's all donation based, which can be kind of tricky if you are independently licensed and you don't work under the umbrella of an organization because it is basically a full time job if you're doing it, you know, all the time. And so yeah, you have to have some kind of some kind of funding from it. So yeah, it could be a little tricky. How did you get involved with this? How did you decide that this would be something that you would be spending? I would expect a considerable amount of your free time energy and perhaps even money on. So I, as you know, as we said before, so I'm a registered nurse, but when COVID hit, I live with my grandfather and I help take care of him. And I also have a lot of contact with my mom who takes care of my grandfather and I have asthma. So it kind of was this, I was working in community health and they tend to be hotbeds of COVID. So I figured, you know, it's time to just step back and take a little, take a little break from nursing for just for, you know, that's an amount of time. And this past June, I was in Arlington with my family and our neighbors came across the street and they were holding this tiny baby rabbit. And they go, look at this rabbit. We think our cat brought it inside the house. And I went, oh no, oh no, because I have two rabbits myself. And I knew that especially wild rabbits, their hearts can literally burst from fear from if they're being held or if they're being around a lot of noise, like they can just die of fright. And so I went, okay, we need to get him in a quiet place. We need to get him contained and away from people and away from sound. And so I happened to have a crate in Arlington, like a little animal carrier. So we put him in that with some towels and I went, well now what? What do we do with this rabbit? So I did research and I had no idea, personally, I had no idea that you can just call a wildlife rehabilitator and they will come and take and rehabilitate the animal and take it to the vet if they need to. And I'd seen all these nature shows and loved reading major books as a kid, especially about wildlife rescue. But I didn't know that it was something you could just call. You could just, you know, that they're local people. I thought it was, you know, major organizations or things like that. So it was this whole new world that kind of I delved into because of this baby rabbit. And I called the local rehabilitator in Arlington, actually. And she wasn't able to get there for a couple of hours, but she said, if you're comfortable, if you could put on a pair of gloves and just check the rabbit for any injuries because especially cat captured animals, you need to make sure that there aren't any skin breaks. Right, cats are not generally going to be gentle in the way that they are. No. And also, but something about cats and their saliva is they have pastorella in their spit, which is a bacteria that is particularly fatal to small animals. And so even if the animal looks okay, you're like, oh, you just release it into your backyard. If your cat brings in a rabbit or if it brings in a chipmunk or brings in a squirrel. If there was any kind of puncture and any saliva contact or any scratch or anything like that, the animal will usually die within like a day or two. So it's essentially toxic spit. Yeah, yeah. Again, something I never would have known if this hadn't happened. So she asked me to check this rabbit over and I was like, I do a lot of wound care as a nurse. So I was like, I'm fine. I can deal with this. And I'm checking him over and he looked okay. And then there's like a little wet spot on his side and I kind of moved the fur aside. He had this good size puncture. Big chug of skin missing. So I was like, oh no, it's poor, poor baby. So she came and got him a little bit later. He made it. He survived just. Yes, our audience will want to know, I think. Yeah, yeah, he did really well. I think we got the antibiotics into him soon enough because they have to get pretty intensive antibiotics. With cat bites. But yeah, and but because of that, I had called another rehabber who hadn't answered initially before I got in contact with the local one. And the first person I called, she got back in contact with me. And she was, we just ended up talking for like an hour about wildlife rehabilitation. And she was like, oh yeah, you know, things are crazy right now. We're getting so many calls, like hundreds of calls a day about downed animals and squirrels in particular and rabbits, a lot of baby rabbits. And I was like, hey, if there's any way that I can help, I'm not working currently as a nurse. So I have, you know, a fair amount of free time. And she was like, I will, I will, you know, I will follow up with you on that. Right. Music to her ears, I am sure. So yeah, so we did a bunch of training and she I'm basically her intern. So yeah, pretty cool. Well, I tell you, it's a we look for, as you might imagine, bright spots in, you know, over these last number of months. And this is clearly, you know, one of those opportunities and one of the silver linings that have, you know, particularly for the squirrels that you are that you are helping and that little baby rabbit, et cetera. But, but just in general, clearly it has brought you plenty of joy. Oh yeah. Wow. What is, you know, so what is your like currently what are you doing and in terms of are you in charge of in charge of I don't even know if that's the right kind of phrasing, but are you basically taking care of the pre-release of one, two, three, seven, 12 square squirrels? I don't know. So currently I am in charge of six squirrels who I've been there for since they were in what we call pinkies where, you know, they're anywhere from a couple days to maybe a week old when we found them. Yeah. It's, it's a lot of work. They kind of just kind of kept trickling in. So it was like, oh yeah, it's only two. That's, that's totally fine. Then it was like, okay, well, all right, next day you got calls for two more one in the morning and one at night. You're like, all right, I have four now. Yeah, it was, it was pretty insane for a while. And you can distinct like, you know, here's a kind of silly question, but do these squirrels have different personalities for you having spent time with them? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. They're like any, any young creatures, you know, a litter of puppies or kittens or something like that, you can quickly distinguish personalities. Oh yeah. Yeah. And also just, you know, subtle variations in marking where you're like, oh yeah, that's that's Linus. Oh, yep, that one's Lucy. That one's people like, how can you tell? It's just a wriggling mass of pink. So have you actually named your six squirrels or? Yep. So they all have names. Some of them were named by the people who found them actually, because I like to, we like to give, give people that opportunity if they want. I don't know. I just think it's kind of nice because we'll, we'll keep them updated every once in a while to be like, Hey, how are my babies doing? Send a picture, send them an update. I don't know. I know that I appreciated that when the rabbit that, you know, we get, we brought to the rehabilitator. I appreciated updates. So. Oh yeah. I mean, how can you not? You can, it helps you to continue to feel good and great about what it, you know, you know, your own small part in it while somebody else is doing almost all the work. It's a little hard to beat that. So. Yeah. And like, obviously it's not like a daily update because you're often so busy that like sometimes I don't get back to people for a little bit, but yeah. So are all six squirrels eminently? Like, are they all at the stage now of pre-release? And so. Oh yeah. What, what is the timing on that? Is this going to be, they'll be assuming you can get the cages and we should certainly talk about what you still need in order to be able to do that. But assuming that that all moves along, what, what kind of timing are we talking about that they would spend in that, that environment? And then, and then is that the last thing that happens before they're actually released? Yeah. So, so it's usually it's not, you tend to go by milestones rather than age or size. Because sometimes like one of our squirrels, she was, she was kind of a runt, you know, she was just, she's, and she's still the smallest of all of them. But so if you're going purely by weight or size, maybe a little iffy, but she's, they're all rearing to go. They're just like ready to get out. So basically, there are some basic milestones that they have to be able to meet before you can release them to the wild. And that includes being able to crack nuts, like in-shell nuts. Because if they can't do that, if their jaws aren't strong enough, their teeth aren't strong enough, they don't know how to do it, then they're not going to survive, you know, out with the trees and the walnuts and beech nuts and acorns. So they have to be able to crack nuts. They have to be able to cash their food. So if you've ever seen squirrels running around and like digging in the ground and digging in the ground and burying things. So that's something that, that behavior kind of comes with time and also just like seeing their, you know, their siblings doing it. So, so they all love cracking nuts and they all are really good at cashing. So. So that, I assume that that means that somehow, are they outside in some controlled environment in order for you to be able to tell these things that they can, you know, I imagine they could crack the nuts whether they're in a cage or not, but, but, you know, cashing, for instance, I mean, they really, they literally have to be able to show you they can do that, right? So how does that work? So they're currently in big cages that are in a shed right now so that they get that temperature variation and like the doors are open during the day so they get the air and the wind and the, but then at night they're closed in so they're protected because there are a lot of raccoons around. I don't know, was that rabbit raccoon just like last week? So, you know, so just to kind of keep them protected while they're still getting, they're still adapting kind of more to the weather and being semi outdoors. So we provide them, we actually will walk around the neighborhood and pick up acorns and pick up peach nuts and just, you know, just kind of scavenge, you know, scavenge fallen. Uber eats for the squirrels. They're delivered right to their door. I know they have such an easy life. But yeah, and so, and they will just, right now, because they're not on the ground, they're in a shed, you know, in their, in these cages, they'll will kind of bury it in their bedding or they'll like go to the corner and sort of like bury it in their other food or it's kind of cute or like trying to cover it. Basically, as long as they have that instinct to bury these things and then that's what you're looking to assess and make sure they can do. I mean, you also like want to give them like a little dish of dirt so that they get used to digging in dirt as well to bury stuff and dig stuff up. Wow. I mean, it's, it's absolutely fascinating actually to think about something that I never would have thought about before, which is how do you simulate if you're a caring human like you, how do you simulate the things that, that a squirrel or any other small creature would learn just as you say from siblings, from, from, you know, parents, et cetera, you know, just growing up in the environment and you have to do that in novel ways, you know, within a kind of constricted for safety reasons environment. And that's amazing. And I wonder though, whether, I don't know, how do you feel about the fact that in some time you will be releasing your six little ones into the world, hopefully having prepared them as best you could, like all of us parents understand in, you know, what happens at that point? Do you just, I mean, I assume they go off and that's that. There's no way of tracking. There's no way of keeping them, you know, where you can see them or anything like that. Is that, is that right? So yeah, so the release process, they often will stay generally within, I think that, I think that generals like area that they stay in is a couple of football fields worth of distance. So wherever they're released and it's usually recommended to release them within a few miles, I think within like two miles of where they were caught or wherever they were found or whatever the, you know, the situation is obviously that's not always possible. But so the release process involves, you have an outside in a pre-release cage, which is essentially just like a six or eight foot by six or eight feet by a couple feet sized wire mesh enclosed completely exposed to the elements enclosure for maybe like a couple weeks, two weeks, maybe. And then you have a nest box in there. And then when they're ready for release, you put the nest box up in a tree, maybe 15 to 30 feet up in a tree. And then, yeah, it fastened it very well to the street. And then that's kind of their starter home. That's where they'll, you know, oftentimes kind of stay together for a bit. And maybe they'll stay in it through the winter. Maybe they'll go off and build their own tray, which is what you call it at Squirrel Nest, those big leafy bundles you see in trees are called Drays. And yeah, and sometimes they'll come back and kind of visit and be like, Oh, hey, I know you. But they do wild up. They wild up pretty effectively. And yeah, there's no way to track them and no way to make guarantee their safety. But you hope that I mean, just knowing that that, as you say, they do adapt relatively quickly. And certainly you kind of consistently, that is the case. It's got to make, you know, that has to be reassuring, I would think. So a couple of things left. One is what guidance have you picked up already that would be good to share with others around what to do if you come across a vulnerable small animal for, you know, of probably various different sorts. But are there kind of general guidelines? Clearly you're going to want to reach out to a wildlife rehabilitator in the same way as you did. But any other kind of pointers for folks, should they find themselves in that situation? Definitely. So if it's something like a rabbit or a squirrel or, you know, basically a non, like a non rabies carrier, right? So we're talking rodents kind of animals. They generally don't carry diseases that can hurt people. They might have fleas, but nothing like they're not going to give you rabies. They're not going to, you know, so in, if you find them on the ground, particularly if it's a baby, you know, eyes closed or anything, you want to immediately get them into like a cardboard box with maybe some fleece or flannel and on a heating pad. Because usually if they're on the ground, they're usually kind of hypothermic kind of colds. They usually feel cold to the touch. But you don't want to put it on high heat and you want to kind of keep the box half on the heating pad so that they can escape, move away from the heat if they want to. And that's like, you know, the first thing that you do and then if they're wet and dry them off, and then you call a rehabber. And sometimes if, you know, the baby squirrel or rabbit or whoever it is, if they're clearly not injured, sometimes they'll have very obvious injuries. But if there's no parent injuries, and, you know, they're kind of wiggling and lively, and sometimes the squirrels still have you kind of monitor the box, you put it near where you found them. And sometimes the mother squirrel will come and actually come and pick them up and bring them back to the nest. But if that doesn't happen then, or if they do have injuries or anything like that, if they are just really cold, they'll generally need some kind of intervention, in which case that's where the wildlife rehabilitator comes in. But yeah, generally you want to get them safe and warm and dry. Don't try to feed them. That's another big thing, is because the likelihood of them aspirating, well they'll choke on the fluid if it's too fast or if it's too, if it's the wrong kind of fluid, like a lot of people will get calls and they'll be like, oh yeah, I've been feeding at cow milk for a couple days and you're like, no, because they can get really bad bloat, they can die from that. It's usually a fairly specific kind of formula that they need. So the general rule of thumb is don't try and give it fluids. Don't try and feed it, wait until you've contacted a rehabilitator. Yeah, that's kind of, that's kind of the, yeah. You know, those are easy things to remember, several of them. So that's great to share. Let me ask you, this is a lot of effort to put in to ensure the well-being of a half dozen squirrels, who again, I think people don't pay a lot of attention to on the whole or highly value in a lot of ways. What inspires you to do that? I don't know, I'm kind of a softie when it comes to everybody and everything. I definitely love animals and especially if an animal is in need, like these, all of these baby squirrels were orphaned or found on the ground or had injuries. And so it's like, of course, of course I'm going to help if I can. Also, squirrels are, they're not endangered in any as we know, we have an abundance of squirrels, but they are, you know, somewhat important to, you know, in terms of reforestation. I know we're kind of in the suburbs, it's not as important, but they're pretty important critters for planting trees because they forget where a lot of the nuts that they buried are and those, you know, new plants and new trees. And yeah, I don't know, it's just a, they're so smart, they're so intelligent and very affectionate and in captivity, which obviously you wouldn't want normally unless there's something, something seriously wrong where they can't be released back into the wild, but they can look up to 20 years. Generally in the wild, if they survive the first year, which is about a 50% survival rate. So it's kind of, you know. And that makes sense to me. Yeah. I mean, all this, I'm sure you've probably been seeing a lot of squirrels in the road, like within the last several weeks, because those are the young, you know, leaving the nest and getting used to the outside world, and they don't know what to do with cars and awesome stuff. And yeah. But yeah, so if they survive the first year, then they can generally live, I'd say, about six to eight years in the wild. If they're in a really, you know, kind of more safe space, and if they're really fast and really smart, up to 12 usually. But yeah, yeah, they're very, yeah, more stuff that I never knew. So I really appreciate it. Last question is, obviously, you took a kind of COVID mandated or dictated break from nursing. I imagine you'll, you either have or will be returning to that sometime soon. Do you plan to try and make space for this work as well as you, you know, as you move back into, you know, working full time? Or is this a kind of, did we catch you at the right moment to talk about this? Because it may not be something that you can continue to incorporate in your life. So squirrels are, so I'm not sure if I would be able to take care of squirrels, you know, as if I'm working as a nurse. Because especially in the very beginning, it is 24 seven, you have to feed them every two to three hours around the clock. If I'm waking up, you know, one in the morning, three in the morning, five in the morning, it was brutal, absolutely brutal. I was like, is this what it's like to have a newborn child? It was intense. And you know, so I was just a total basket case. So I had got a lot of support from my mom and sister. So it was great. But yeah, I don't I don't think it's it's probably very feasible for me to do. At least for now, I think it is something that I would want to want to get into probably later on. I don't know with whatever it is, but I do love it a lot. And I do feel like it's important work to be done. And you know, especially with opossums, you know, things that are really important for, you know, tick population control and, you know, their nature's garbage disposal. So like, I would love to work with possums, you know, in the future. But for now, I think I'm probably probably going to put a pause on this. And also I'd want to get my wildlife rehabilitator licensing, which is a little bit of an involved process. You have to, you know, do a bunch of studying, you have to learn a lot. And then you have to actually sit and take an exam. So I think it's online. But yeah, you have to. How would you as an RN know anything about that? Yeah, I'm like, oh, man, I got nothing on my plate. Going through a process like that, one is enough for a lifetime. I do want to I realize I want to make sure that we ask you what it is that you are looking for currently. So if people are tuning in and interested in helping out, what is it that you could use? Oh, man, yeah. So right now, we actually, this week are going to be building nest boxes and we need to build the pre-release cages because it's about that time. You have to get them out into the outside. So we still need lumber. So I'd like two by fours or two by sixes because we have to build two cages. We have to build two of these giant cages. So it's, it's a little intimidating and overwhelming trying to get that. So I've already had a really sweet friend. She bought us a roll of hardware cloth from Home Depot of, you know, it's like the half inch or quarter inch with spacing. But yeah, like things that you'd think like, oh, wait, you can just use chicken wire, but chicken wire is you can chew right through it. Well, not you, but like a raccoon. So yeah, so basically just hardware cloth and lumber are two of our biggest, biggest things that we could definitely use help with. Yeah. Great. Okay. So if you're out there listening and watching, we'll provide the information for how you can reach out to Katrina with any offers for help. And I'm sure they will be appreciated. Definitely. And well used. Yeah. Okay. In that case, thank you so much for talking to us today. It really has been an education and a lovely way to spend some time in the middle of a pandemic talking about and finding out about your efforts on behalf of these tiny and lovely little creatures. Yeah. So best of luck with that. And I hope you, you know, see them off and, you know, with a full heart. And I'm sure that they will, will do very well and come back to visit at some point. Here's hoping, right. All right. Thank you again. I've been talking to Katrina Rosenberg. This is Talk of the Town and I'm James Milan. Thanks for joining us.