 Es ist schon ungefähr 30 Jahre her, da begab ich mich für eine Repartage auf eine Reise quer durch Russland. Es ist schon ungefähr 30 Jahre her, da begab ich mich für eine Repartage auf eine Reise quer durch Russland. Auf der Suche nach der russischen Seele der Tusharuskaya. Der Weg führte mich unter anderem in die russische Stadt Nizhninovgorod, die zu Sowjetzeiten Gorki hieß und erst kürzlich mit den alten Namen angenommen hatte. Ich handelte mir, es war ein Jahreswechsel und bitterkalt. Eine feste Lungenentzündung ein, die ich mit hierfür von ganz viel Tee fürsorge, da die jeweiligen Tigeuren neu aus und reichlich russischen Antibiotiker hinter mich brachte. Mitgebracht habe ich aus Nizhninovgorod zwei Dinge. Eine Reihe von wunderschönen, aber unglaublich deprimierenden Schwarzweißfotos zum post-Sovjetischen Verfall in einem schönen alten russischen Stadt. Und ein Interview mit einem jüdischen Philosophie-Professor an der Lokalen Uni zu eben diesem Thema in russischer Seele, das in dem Satz gipfelte, wir haben euren Faschismus besiegt, um den Preis, das wir unseren am Leben gelassen haben. Das ist eine Aussage, die ich in letzter Zeit vermehrt auch an anderen Stellen gehört habe. Angesichts der jüngsten Ereignisseien der Ukraine möchte ich mich hier ein wenig mit dem bikifrusischen Faschismus auseinandersetzen. Vor allem auch mit seinen historischen Wurzeln. Wikipedia definiert Faschismus als eine politische Bewegung, die von extremen Nationalismus geprägt ist, gebaut mit Führerprinzip, Missachtung beziehungsweise Ablehnung bestehender internationalen Normen, Verachtung der Demokratie, einer sogenannten Zupassheit, Spektakelpolitik oder der berühmten Ankündigungspolitik, sowie der Redaktion des Individuums zur Gunsten des Primarztamasses. Faschismus ist ja per se ein eher inhaltsleerer Begriff. Fascio ist Italienisch und heißt Bündel oder Rute. Die Fasces waren die Rotenbündel, die im alten Rom den Lektoren, also der Regierung vorangetragen wurden, als Zeichen ihrer Macht. Faschistis sind so mit Bündler, Vereinte, zusammengeschlossen und verblüfft. Die ersten Faschistis waren in Italien um 1890 linke Arbeiterbünder in Sizilien. Und erst 1919 gönnete Benito Mussolini seine Fascinil Combatimento, seine Kampfbünde und von dort nannte sich dann die ganze Bewegung Faschisten und hat es an die anderen rechten Bewegungen innerhalb Europas des 20. Jahrhunderts weitergegeben als Bezeichnung. Einigen uns für diesen Vortrag darauf, Faschismus zu definieren als Ultranazalismus, gebart mit Führerprinzip, Ablehnung demokratischen Prinzipien, sowie das Primat der Gruppe über das Individuum. Ich habe bei dieser Definition bewusst nicht auch noch antikommunistisch hinzugefügt, weil das nur auf die Faschistischen Bewegungen des 20. Jahrhunderts zutreffe und selbst da sind die Grenzen verschwommen. Max war sicher kein Faschist, Lenin nötigst wahrscheinlich nicht, Stalin wahrscheinlich nicht nur sicher einer, aber da komme ich mir später noch mal zurück. Jetzt machen wir erst einmal einen ganz kurzen historischen Exkurs, weil das mit die Geschichte und so, also erstens ist es wie überall kompliziert und zweitens haben wir das in der Schule ja nicht gelernt und der hat kaum Weiharnung davon. Wär aber wichtig oder praktisch, denn es erklärt sehr viel von dem, was da gerade in der Kreine abgeht. Also gut, die Wikinger, tatsächlich die Wikinger, die waren eben so unternehmungslustig wie Reisefreudig und dafür sind sie bekannt und sie sind nicht nur in den Westen gezogen, wo ja Elektro-Rote bis nach Deutschland kam, sondern auch nach Osten sozusagen auf die andere Seite hin. Dort fuhren sie auf Flüssen mit der Dniester und dem Dnieper, mit ihren Drachnerschiffen von Skandinavien nach Südosten bis an das Schwarze Meer und begründeten damit eine Reihe von Städten als Handel-Niederlassungen und Respektive, Trieben mit den Städten, die sie schon vorfahren, Handel. Man nennt diese Wikinger auch Maräger, angeblich sind sie für die Oberkörper Blauen Augen, so wird das leuchtende Strublom der Ukraine-Rinnen verantwortlich oder so ähnlich, so hat die Fakten. Der Mythos erzählt vor einem Stamm der Wikinger, der sich Rus nannte. Von denen gibt es aber keine geschichtlichen Bezeugungen, also irgendwo Erwähnungen in einem Dokument oder auf einer Aufschrift, auf einer Mama-Dafel oder sonst eine Inschrift irgendwo. Die werden nur erwähnt in Mythen und in Geschichten. Also gibt es sie erst mal offiziell nicht. Das endet aber nix daran, dass ab dem 10. Jahrhundert die Varega oder wer auch immer als Kieverus aufgetreten sind, und zwar die Slaven. Als Großreich der Slaven, so in etwa dort, wo die heutige Ukraine ist. Wir wollen das jetzt im Detail nicht diskutieren. Aber um Kieferum bietet sich der erste slavische Staat. Der Mythos des russischen Slaventums oder des Slaventums überhaupt, das orthodoxie, erzählt von den 10 weisen Männern, die in einem goldenen Boot im Niebran runterkommen und in der Stadt Kiev oder Kiev am Land gehen und dort auf den Sieben mögen, der Staat das Neue, also das orthodoxe und rechtgräubige Rom, zu gründen, wie die wir wieder zu errichten. Die Geschichte wiederweist, dass der Varegische Großfürst Vladimir I. aus dem Stamm des Schwertoslavic um 899 in Kiev zum pithentinisch orthodoxen Christentum konvertierte. V.a. wenn die Russen den Heiligen nennen und in Kiev die Wiege ihrer Nation sehen. Das ist ein wichtiger Punkt. Die Geschichte von Kiev und Moskau, das Eng miteinander verbunden seither und lässt sich nicht voneinander trennen. Sehr viele Argumente, die auch von russischer Seite vorgebracht werden, sind historisch begründbar. Er kommt nur zum falschen Jahrhundert für seinen Entschluss. Aber da kommen wir noch mal nie. 1240 fiel Kiev die Goldene Pforte als letzte große Stadt im Zuge der Mongolischen Invasion der Russ und wurde völlig niedergebracht. Das ist das Ende der Kiever Russ. Da geht die erste orthodoxie unter. Erst 300 Jahre später über Ivan IV, Großfürst von Moskau, die Tartarischen Kanate Kursan und Astrakhan und legte damit den Grundstein zum modernen Russischen Großreich. Die Geschichte tankte sie mit ihm in den schrecklichen Lande, wobei die Übersetzung fehlerhaft ist, denn die Russen nennen ihn Grozny. Der drohende, der strenge, der so respektierende bedeutet. Wahrscheinlich ist das schrecklich ein früher PR-Spiel gegen den neuen Mitspieler, der noch dazu die falsche Religion hatte. Jedenfalls versteht die russische Geschichtsschreibung Moskau. Die Leute, die nur seinen Enemys waren, weil er die wrongen Religionen hatte. So, der Sars, der ihn war, erhielt himself the leaders of all the Russians and meant Kiev and Mosk as well, so Ukraine and Belarus. In Kiev, well, the stories say that the leader of the orthodox church flew, well, he was on the run, on foot for quite a long way. It's probably not true, but it's a nice myth. So Kiev itself lost all importance and later came up again in Poland. The Polish people were Catholic, the local people were orthodox and the Russians as well. So that leads to problems always. So, they then proposed a community with the Russian motherland and then in a few battles mit Moskau succeeded in fighting a few Polish armies, killed about one-fifth of the Ukrainian Jews and then in 1654 he celebrated the coming together of the Cossack state with the Russian Tsar Empire. So Kiev used to be Russian then. And now we come to Marty. He is a Fin and a high figure in the Finnish secret services and he is still alive. And his whole life he studied the Russians and the Russian side or how the Russians see the world. And in a lecture on UTP he explains how the Russians see the world fundamentally different from us. For him the 300 years of Tartaric leadership between the fall of Kiev and the comeuppance of the Moskowitz and Ivan Grosny are a key period. Unfortunately I don't know Finnish but the subtitles translated as a completely lawless period. Completely lawless also means victory of the stronger one. And apparently this leads to Russian thinking. You can also see this historically. The enlightening period. Locke, Hobbes, Hume, Descartes, Montesquieu. All this thinkers that we found our thinking on. They never happened in Russia. They are not part of the Russian history. Until deep into the 19th century most of the Russian people were slaves or de facto slaves. And a few rich people and noblemen. And if you are a slave you are not going to write any books. Industrialization never really happened in Russia either. Well, it did. But only after the October Revolution when Lenin said in the Soviet Congress in 1920 Communism is Soviet power plus electrification. Disars themselves. They thought they were sent by God. So absolutist leaders. And Habsburgs in Europe saw it similarly about themselves. And in this direction you have to think if I am God sent, I can't do wrong. And as soon as Dessau has his crown, his crown jewels he will never be in the wrong. Whenever something bad happens, it will never be his fault. And the Orthodox Church is a state church. And it's entirely connected to the state. So they believe in the state and they help the state. And you can see this again now in the Ukraine war. It's unbelievable, unthinkable that the Catholic Church today would, well, so the Pope said differently. He preaches, he never preaches, yeah, we do what they, we support them. It's unthinkable that the Pope would support a war. But in Russia, that's the case. Authority is given by God and being against it is a sin. So as the Christendom split apart into two in 1054 into a West and an Eastern Church the question was can you approach God with human methods, mainly thinking? Or is God a Mysterium that you just have to submit to? So the Western world developed the Jesuits and Marx Weber. But the Eastern Church till today is deep within mysticism. So rational thinking is usually a sin. And mysticism is deep within all layers of society. Enlightenment was lost already with Stalin. So Soviet power and also Vladimir Putin after it have never lost the imperial demands of the Tsar. And they also consider themselves without fail and without error. So orthodox in its word meaning means the right ones, the proper ones. And they also have their orthodox beliefs and they consider it their mission to protect Russians. And the Russians are meant to protect their beliefs. And that's also taught in the churches. Then and now. In 1917 there was the big fight of the Winter Palace and the Civil Revolution and then the Bolshevik Putsch and then the Civil War. So 102 Millionen Russians ran away into neighboring countries in 1920. Most of them were intellectuals or noblemen. And one of them, Nikolaj Trubeskoj was a linguist before he went west. And he also wrote philosophical lectures and in 1920 he said there's just one true controversy. The Roman Germans or one true conflict, the Roman Germans and the other peoples of the world, Europe and humanity. So 1921 this book was brought out, Exodus towards East in a Russian Exile Publisher. Exile Publisher. And there were essays in it from our aforementioned philosopher and a theologist, Georgi Florouiski, a geographer and others. They had and developed this geopolitical idea of Eurasism. In the middle of a civil war in Russia that went on until 1925 or longer and within the mysticism they had this idea as a conservative idea that says that Russian dominated continent that includes Europe and Russia that's in conflict with a Romano-Germanic world in the west. This continent Eurasia is about the territory of the Zeristic Empire. So Russia is a Eurasian culture that's in conflict with the western culture. The western culture is not denied but seen as unsuitable for Russia because it's missing spiritual elements. Bolshevism is called ugly and denied entirely and the problems of the tragedies of the Russian civil war had made it obvious that the Bolshevism is not right and the Eurasian has a saving element. So the Eurasians have the goal to connect, to bring all the Christian churches together under the leadership of the Russian Orthodox Church and Jews are to be included but kept separate. Asa has the duty and Christian love to reign in a state of wisdom where everyone is equal and also the Ukrainians and Ukraine as a country should find their place in this empire. The most important neighbor of Eurasia is China. Mysticism is a very important part of the Russian state of being and being given by a God this authority is a lot of authority and maybe I should also mention that already in the Greek philosophy there was this idea of a just tyranny and it justly killing a tyranny. The Romans knew of a right of resistance against an unjust state power. In the indictment period we can read this in Montesquieu's Letters and with theologists John Locke. They have similar ideas. John Locke said the people should be judges and the US Declaration of Independence mentions him specifically with this idea. So all this resistance cannot be found in the Russian philosophy. It's not part of their being. There are philosophers of enlightenment who they know, especially Kant, they like him a lot. Maybe because he denies this right to resistance or a right of resistance. It doesn't really matter though. A right of resistance or the idea of resisting is basically a sin for an orthodox Russian person. Back to Eurasia. So the idea was to collect followers and resist the Bolshevik revolution in Russia in the underground. The Soviet Secret Service, GPU, infiltrated them. It was then split apart in 1929 into an anti-Soviet pro-Soviet Part. The left part of them made Paris their center. But many of them were also moving back to the Soviet Union in 1930 and many of them were just shot from the fifties the left Gumiljov then further the ideology of the Eurasians and he was thinking of a very fertile symbiosis between the Mongolian Nomads and the Ostslavic Farmers. But he distanced himself more and more from the classic Eurasians. So, why is this important? That's fringe, right? No, not anymore. Eurasians are not fringe anymore. They are at the center of power. And this person, Alexander Dugin Dugin is part of the inner circle of Vladimir Putin and he is his spiritual priest, basically. Since the early nineties he is for some sort of new Eurasianism. And the classic Eurasianism postulated a third continent, Eurasia, between Europe and Asia. But he sees it as Europe and Asia. So Dugin says there should be a Eurasian Empire from Dublin to Vladivostok because the true geopolitically justified borders of Russia are at Cadiz and Dublin. And Europe is meant to be part of the Soviet Union. Classical Eurasians and new Eurasians, like Dugin they share the bipolar worldview that Eurasia has a main enemy. And that classic Eurasians see the Roman Germanic Europe as enemy. But new Eurasians they imagine that the Eurasian land powers under the leadership of Russia fight the liberal Atlantic sea powers led by the United States of America. According to Dugin is occupied by the Americans. And Russia has to free them. Has to free Europe. For some reason I have to think of Ragnarok when he talks of a final fight. But I have to say a lot of final fights and that's usually meant connected to the idea of rebirth. So Dugin, and this is important does not come from traditional Eurasian movement but also new right wing people from western Europe. For example Tyria or Alander Benoit but also Members of the conservative revolution like Carl Schmidt or Carl Haushofer. So I just want to mention it carefully and that's a very important question why is Ukraine that's historically after the revolution had the same way as Russia how did it develop differently and I want to give a small interpretation that might be wrong historically so the Ukrainian nationalism was not born in Kiev it was born in Lemberg Lemberg is the old Jewish name of the city the Austrian Lemberg and that was a hotbed of nationalism in a time when within the monarchy the nationalism was growing in general to check nationalism and the Polish nationalism and the Ukrainian because the West Ukrainians or the Austrian Galicia that part of Galicia in Ukraine today they had their own language and they were recognized one of 16 nations because the Ukrainians were considered Russians there were white Russians, red Russians and black Russians but the Yudins I think were their own people Stalin after the Second World War when he reintegrated Lemberg into the Soviet Union and gave it to Ukraine then the nationalism started establishing itself there there was a Ukrainian movement also in the US and at some point this national movement of the Ukraine managed to push the right buttons when the Soviet Union fell and I always said that the independence of Ukraine was bad for Russia and when Putin says that the Soviet fall was a greatest mistake of history then he also means the independence of Ukraine I don't want to say it's right what he does that can't be said, he's a fascist Putin is a fascist so, the British people will not like to hear that but too bad, I like to explain how Putin can think and how he can be joined by a part of the Russian people and he has a lot of control over the media to push this narrative and I don't want to old leftist people from 68, it's a German movement of hippies who see Russia as a counterpoint to the American imperialism I just try to explain historically as a journalist who has been connected since over a thousand years how they suddenly fight have a fight of life and death and this is horrible and I think everyone can have their own conclusions but I think I don't want to say it so Putin is not the victim here but this whole affair is also founded in history and yeah I'm looking forward very much to the Q&A thank you very very much André thank you very much two months ago your talk seemed weird and unthinkable but since two months there is war in Europe you lived in the Soviet Union and the Russian Federation, you are a political journalist you are an old 68er you are a data protector so what might lead a big nation to attack their neighbor you explained it and we have collected a few questions in the pad one of the first questions reaching us is there a metaphysical argument today between the original Ukrainian orthodoxy and the state religion and the Russian-Moscow exile can you hear me? yes and no the orthodoxy as a church in Ukraine split into three parts also in Lemberg there are orthodox people the Odines were orthodox as well but they are not under party management in Moscow in the orthodox church you can choose who you want to serve beneath you have quite a level of autonomy you can also become a metropolis yourself so this one second sorry for that so there is both an orthodoxy loyal to Moscow but also another one but there is also a Lutheran orthodox church that is connected to the Pope and explicitly not part of the Russians and they are building Barakhan churches and they are quite orthodox and they have marrying priests and all that we call them Greek orthodox because some stupid officials just interpreted and imagined a name for them but they are not competition and with a lot of money in the game is between the new found Ukrainian orthodox church that is their own church and within the conference of orthodox churches there are not many metaphysical discussions so Greek Catholic so my daughter who studied this said they are called we are calling them in Austria different so yeah they have to proper believe in the Ukrainian view orthodox and I think they are the real guardians of Christendom and we in the west changed it too much already and especially we are not following the missus as many more thank you for that another question thank you for this part of the Russian history that this is how they see themselves and really explain how the current events are happening yeah that's what I would say so in over 3 years I lived in Russia and also in Ukraine and I am going there since 4 years ago I was first in the Soviet Union then Russia and yes let me put it this way the basic problem is Putin so Ukraine is mostly Russian speaking in the late 80s when I went to Kiev nobody spoke Ukrainian they were speaking Luteine so Ukrainian, but the Russian Ukrainians they didn't see a difference between Ukrainian and Russian and only since this war Putin managed to turn the Russian speaking Ukrainians into Ukrainians so war the paradigm changed so they have a new definition yeah the wild the wild claimed that the Russian supersedes everything and also violence against women and children there is this saying that Russia or Putin managed to do what he tried to prevent the creation of a proper Ukrainian identity it will probably become obvious only in a few years from now but yeah the Ukrainian situation so it's been said that the Ukrainian exile is stronger in Canada than in the US and I thought the Ukrainian nationalism is a thing of exile with one easy step today in Ukraine you will find no one doesn't matter if they speak Russian or have Russian roots who says they feel like a Russian he managed that so we have to really use these historical happenings or facts as a foundation for the arguments well, nothing, you can't really talk to them about that it's something we see ourselves as enlightened western who say yeah with logic we can solve everything trying to talk to them and they say no, we don't want to talk we have our world view problem solved, next one yeah following that if the saws saw themselves as God given does Putin see themselves as following that so can that really happen in the 21st century to have that image in the heads of the people yes, quite obvious if Putin believes it, I don't know none of us can look into his head he considers himself probably as sent by fate this idea of power that's been established since Ivan Krosny so it's been there for a long time together with complete control of media the killing and all the horrible things that happened we know what happened in Aleppo this beautiful city that doesn't really exist anymore he could have stopped earlier so I really love the Russians but it really changes how I perceive them because if they still run with this narrative yeah, it's really deep in there even at the 21st century final fight, ragnarok, new Russian right marshal words and the question stays well, if I knew that, I would get a Nobel Prize well, if someone listened to me, nobody would at the end of the day Putin will have to be removed maybe he does it himself yeah, I don't know in Russia there is no revolution of the people in history it was always a group taking power army might do it and there is a lot happening right now a lot of people are disappearing it's quite obscure and opaque I should burn my mouth but you'll have to be removed it's not like all of Russia is like this there is a lot of Russians who say it's horrible but they are a minority right now maybe a critical comment and I want to repeat your reputation as a consequent data protector but we had a critical comment that the two of us as old white men are to be seen critical when we sit here and try to explain the world to the chaos community but you lived there in Russia and I would say, yeah, you do know it and have a journalistic background well, I have a profession and that's journalist so I can go somewhere, take a look and see what I see using my eyes and repeat it nothing less, nothing more I have no solutions, I'm not a consultant maybe I overlook something, that's possible probably, from a queer feminist view, there's a lot on this but I don't think the situation has to be more terrible than it is so I can only provide what I can provide but to the opinion everyone has to inform for themselves I was there and that's it and I can't leave my skin okay, further do you have any recommendations how to handle the current situation how does Putin, without connection to the Tsar by birth, by blood, how does he get legitimacy well, I can't really tell you there was overthrows so it wasn't always by blood, God gives the Tsar and how God decides that it's up to him, yeah and contradicting this line of argument, contradiction is sin next point how can we how is the Soviet flag is it patchwork storytelling or are people there who want the Tsar back and Socialist Enlightenment that was usually already done with Stalin but they want to bring times back or call on times and demonstrate the continuum of power the second world war was the last war, the Russians really won and they paid a lot of blood, 20 million Russians more than anyone else in the second world war and the glory of the Soviet Union is referenced but there is a gag the second world war is not called second world war in Russia it's called great war of the fatherland to bring the Russians together behind him so the Russians were brought together because the Nazis attacked the word Nazi does not have to do anything with Social Nationalism so it has nothing to do with our understanding of the word it has nothing to do with anti-Semitism so the Russians are anti-Semitism and the Soviet Union was almost double the size so Ukraine and Belarus maybe not twice as big but they lost a lot with Belarus and Ukraine just 19 century imperialism so in the 21st century it's anachronism, a dangerous anachronism so if 80% according to questionnaires so if 80% of all Russians agree with Putin and even if it's not all of them will a replacement of him not act exactly the same way I don't know my crystal ball is being cleaned right now so I don't know probably, yeah maybe anything about that I don't know I think the Ukrainians should beat the Russians because otherwise I don't know how it should end and sometimes I'm really afraid okay I'll add this question will this maybe create a new form of monarchy so talking about who follows Putin oh yeah no power will be ended over via God again so following with the sun it's only a thing in the west if you have a kid it depends on what God wants so it doesn't really matter well following this geography thinking about geography so how about China to have the mandate of heavens well that's completely different they have a completely different mindset in China my accident I traveled when all this started happening is not comparable to Russia in this direction it's not even a comparison so there's new questions coming in so I read in Swiss newspaper recently when is the Russian man a man so what about toxic masculinity that homosexuality has to be hidden how would you say is that part of this self image is it man driven I don't want to mention it but this this Russian soldier had to talk with a woman who said yeah if you want to rape me use a condom they carried it as well so is there hope for coming Eurasian realm because of the German Russian friendship so the idea is that Germany would enjoy Russia Madame Margenknecht would like that maybe the German politic worked quite well and led to the German reunification and as long as it worked and the German eastern politics was quite successful was perfect with the German reunification but then one should have seen that it couldn't stay forever so hindsight is 20-20 I can't really comment on that I have my hands full with Austria I can't comment on Germany as well so we exhausted all the questions in the pad maybe one last question your friends and family your friends when you were in the Soviet Union do you still have contact to them do you maybe received impulses how are you feeling about this so the Russians I've come to know them as a warm, spontaneous people but I really like them they are great I felt welcome there but sometimes they take turns when we would go left they would go right so not left and right but they take a different direction I noticed it back then they are more emotional than us and I liked it now that I see where it can lead I like it less most of my friends I lost most of them that was 30 years ago those I still know most of them also don't live in Russia anymore my Ukrainian contacts are quite new and yeah in my heart I'm horrified that two people two peoples that I really like and where I didn't see a difference in two German states they are both German and they are more different than Ukrainians and Russians so yeah I have trouble working through this emotionally I am a bit troubled there and still early every morning I'm worried early in the morning and I still hope for Ukraine I'm for peace obviously but apparently there is no other way to stop Putin other than blood and we want to stop the flow of blood yeah thank you for your emotional words and I also want to mention the hope if we only think of the people we can overcome these disagreements with enough time because we also overcame them so a lot of people had disagreements or a bad image of the Germans