 Questions for Sandra? We have a half an hour break, which is lovely and generous of the organizers. And so I'm going to ask, there's a lot we can engage Sandra on. I know. So I'm going to ask people to catch her at that break if we can. OK, we have eight minutes. And let's just popcorn this. Without a lot of discussion, I want to just gather some of the emerging LC issues as you're seeing them and just get a list going. Because I think as the organizers have asked of us, this is a generative meeting. So we want to start just naming some of the issues. And then as the panels are coming up for the rest of the day and tomorrow, that's where we're really going to be able to roll up our sleeves and dive into them and try to explore them and understand them better. So this is our list making section. So just to pop out ideas, what are sort of unique LC issues in this space? Yeah. Just to kick it off, I'm just wondering, should, because the biomedical research community has kind of an inherent altruistic mission of discovery as a means to improve health, are there some extra obligations or should be somehow be more compelled or held to involvement of citizen scientists as co-creators? OK. Obligations from scientific community. And I think that's, I think, great modeling of the use of the microphone as well, Sarah. Thank you. OK. Here, and then back to your table. I've tried to make a way to phrase it. I think there's a tension between what makes the science go the fastest, which is sort of what the institutions might want and the obligations of actually engaging individuals. Those things are going to often be in tension in terms of the governance of the data or of the research project. OK. Thank you. Yes. Yeah. Sure. Thank you. I'm actually sorry we didn't get to ask you a question because sometimes we want the whole body to hear. But what I think is really important in listening to this is that when I see the data and I see all of that, I think about whether it's accessible. I think about race. I think about ethnicity. I think about poverty. I think about urban and rural communities. And I know that there is sometimes discomfort of talking about things like race. But it's really important because how people access and use information is really important. You had mentioned three different bodies of emerging ways of looking at participation. And the one that was not there was communities leading the research and inviting scientists in as technical advisors. That wasn't there. The other thing is that sometimes what motivates people is livability, the nexus between their livability and the science. And so that's a really big issue that I don't think is characterized that way. So I just wanted to throw that in there. Thank you. Thank you. And one more thing, crowd sourcing. Crowd sourcing isn't always accessible to everyone. And people with the most privilege are the most likely to take advantage of it. And it isn't always accessible to low income communities. OK, Pearl and then Nick. OK, I hit the right button. One thing I think we have spent many decades lumping research. I think we have the collision of biomedical versus social behavioral where the regulations don't quite fit equally. My concern is the taxonomy, using Sandra's word here, that I think we're talking a lot of different types of research. I think one thing that Elsie could really help with is identifying within the taxonomy of what we mean, or may mean by citizen science, what are the responsibilities and rules which come with these various types? My fear is one size does not fit all here. We've already learned that with biomedical and social behavioral. And I think unless we really dive down, we're going to just make that worse. Thank you. Nick, and then we're going to move to tradition. If there's anything from traditional Elsie that we should hang on to. Yeah, I think what this morning's presentation revealed is that the bulk of the citizen science efforts are fairly constrained. Several years, project-based community, very localized community-based. And what we need to consider is the seven generation decisions, the long-term stewardship, and where that is different. And we're talking about applied long-term human health versus project-based engagement that has a lot of these other efforts. Great, thank you. So I recognize we're cutting this short. Effie, did you have a new one? It's gone a little bit back to the taxonomy question. We're lambing a lot of different things under one big term citizen science. And I think one thing that's really interesting is that the roles that people have when they participate are very mixed in some of those activities. So the clarity we had before, there was a researcher or the participant, I think it's not there any longer. And that has implications about those people's responsibilities, duties, obligations we have to them, which I think is an important area of LC. Thank you, thank you. I recognize this is really taunting to just charge through this. This is just our warm up, if you just remember. We have two days to work on this. So anything that we don't want to lose from some of what I'm just calling here, some of our bread and butter LC, LC work that we do. Anything we don't want to lose in this space as we move into this space? A protection of subjects or participants. Are they, is it different? But let's not throw the baby out with bath water. Okay, good. Anything else? Yeah. Obligations related to data stewardship. Yeah. Respect for participants' interests and desires, i.e. not forcing them into things they don't actually want to do. Great. Sorry. Go here and then there. Yeah, go ahead. Can you use your mic? Thank you. Potential for addiction to these games. So we talked about motivation and the goal is always to incentivize our volunteers, get more and more, get them engaged. But do we reach a point where we're, particularly in citizen science projects involving children, are we gamifying too much? Okay, good. I'm gonna put that back on the new list. Yep. Sorry, there was one in the back and then we'll come back here. Yeah. Great. Thank you. Yeah. Being sure to ask whose interests are being served by addressing the questions that are being addressed in citizen science. Thank you. Good one. Okay. Here and then Mildred and last comment. I'll just say independent review. Okay. Benefits sharing? Mildred's last comment. At this table, can I have one too? Okay, okay. I would just, institutional responsibility. Mildred last comment. I think it relates to some of these other ones but sort of the sort of scrutiny of commercialization and the interests that come with that. Okay. Excellent. We're like over time and I promised you coffee. We do like to keep on time just because I think the breaks, these breaks and the conversations you all can have with each other are just as juicy and rich as the one we're having together. So please, thank you for your contributions. Thank you for playing fast and quick. I recognize we're cutting some things short and we'll come back. Coffee is upstairs in the cafeteria. We'll come back at 11 for a panel and we're gonna wanna hear a lot from you at that stage. So thank you.