 excuse Davis excuse graph Hannah Kielsen Kielsen oh thank you Clowness Manny Meyer Monta Mayor Ratke Ryan Susha Vander wheel and for hassle 14 present Corm is present at this time we'll pledge allegiance to the beautiful country we live in and I'd ask attorney McLean to lead us I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all thank you attorney McLean first item on the agenda is resolutions introduced three s2-1 will lie over second item on the agenda and that being the only item is presentation of the architectural design of the new police station and I'd asked mr. Sabinesh to please come forward before you before you get going I'd like to thank you sir for being here today helping us out looks like we've come a longer way now than we have in the past thank you very much and we look forward to your presentation I'm going under the assumption that because this is a special meeting I'll keep the presentation short and allow as many questions as you have to be answered as quickly as I can get them answered so I believe you received a packet of information that included some graphic diagrammatic information that was generated as part of the executive planning meeting that was the very first meeting that we had there will be a number of different meetings that begin to make a more solid definition what the project is going to be this is the very first effort to try to cite the building and give a graphic representation of what we think the building could look like in addition to that information was presented to you that defined some schedule and some budget information which I'll review last so the first piece of the puzzle I guess is is how the building may be organized and again don't get too beholden to this there's an awful lot of engineering an awful lot of planning that has to go into it but it indicates that the building fits on site I think it's a handsome orientation and a good project to build on based on that premise as it's currently proposed the building would have an entrance on the west portion of the site a lobby portion somewhere in this zone most of the public spaces would be oriented to the west of the building so the building's most public features are entered oriented toward 23rd Street as the building progresses and is designed toward the rear of the site toward the east more of the pieces of the police department that are most exclusive are are located in that zone so we start to see is that some of the training and patrol functions start to be relegated to that zone the sally port and booking zones of the building are oriented on the north piece with potential of an access drive and additional parking which would be located to the north the option exists as the design progresses that the building could become actually a little fatter in this orientation and we would start to look at additional parking in the sort of the rear of the site use this better here that's better and in addition to that we're looking at trying to offer as much value relative to enclosed parking as we can so we'll continue to study the option to enclose as much of the parking whether it's to the north of the building or to the east with enclosed building of less cost we'd be looking at pole buildings are more prefabricated structures for that and as it relates to how the program might be enhanced relative to that process we'd also look at putting some the possibility of additional program functions within that space where it's more economical than the body of the building so in terms of orientation again let's go into this fairly quickly the major public spaces of the building are located at the front so the training and functional court and toilet facility facilities are there opportunity directly off the lab you have access to information services as well as the possibility of communications back in this zone as we proceed along this sort of internal circulation spine administrative functions are located proximate to information services investigations are located adjacent to administration and we start to get the evidentiary processing and evidence storage facilities on the I guess the the southeast corner of the building and then training walkers and the like are located in conjunction with patrol we would have the opportunity to have staff entrance that would allow us to get officers back out on the street as quickly as possible in the thing to imagine relative to this is as budget allows as much of this that's associated potentially with squad parking would potentially be in close and so that's what we'll be getting we're beginning to consider an orient relative to the plan public parking would be off a 23rd Street and generally zoned approximate to the main entrance the building and there could be additional parking that would filter across this north edge so that's fundamentally how the building is organized it's a single story and we'll be looking to try to optimize the parking layout relative to issues relative to stormwater management and the like in terms of how the building is conceived in three-dimensional form we viewed that the we have a limited budget but we have some areas of the building that are generally dedicated to the public at large and so we're focusing most of the the effort relative to the exuberance of the project to the main entrance and the public areas of the building in addition to that zones that are generally more internalized are going to be illuminated by clear story lighting light from above so that we're providing light filled environments for the people that are working within the building it's conducive to productivity and makes a highly high quality environment for the people that are going to be working within the facility generally the composition of the building is a masonry exterior backed up by masonry on the interior so it's a high quality building envelope we're going to be prudent in a model glass that we use because glass is fairly expensive but we want to use it in places where it's going to give a nice working environment to the people that work in the building so the areas that where you are focusing on very readily are obviously these internalized areas and then the zones of the building administration if you remember investigative services and information services along this edge and you'll see a similar type treatment on the north face are there any questions relative to the exterior it's clearly a modern building this isn't if we're on the city hall site we might be looking at something that was more more regimented in terms of its organization this is clearly a modern building so it's a building of its time and I think as it develops we'll have some opportunity to make a very handsome statement for the city yes yes hold on thank you your honor with with this exterior shot and so far now there's been several things that have been moved out of the shared in Park site and one of the things that used to be in the building and now I believe is going to be is proposed to be outside as a mechanicals is that correct yes one of the techniques that we would use is dedicating the space that we have to police functions as opposed to mechanical system but there's also a piece of it that tends to be a good thing and that's that the we're still going to have a boiler system so an internal boiler but we'll probably take the air handler and place it on the rough the quality of the air handlers in that environment have improved so we have we feel more comfortable with them as a product and then we will use the mass of the building to do the screening so we would prefer not to put money into mechanical screening devices which are probably going to be required and so we're doing is we would envision using the building and the pieces of the building that are already doing something in this case illuminating the interior to be the screening mechanisms for those units so it's an economical and a reliable concept for how we would deliver that system and it's it's a superior product to what it was even 10 years ago and we're still using the most appropriate means to heat the building so we're using a hot water heated system rather than electric or gas which are generally more expensive in the long run can you show us on this design where it might go I would tend to say it would probably be back in this zone you're looking at this in perspective so this is a high sort of clear story volume in a central circulation spine and then in addition to that we're proposing to have a relatively high volume that separates the base of the building the most public spaces of the building in this zone from the balance of the police department so something we'd probably be looking at on the north side of the building okay and we'd be using the building mass to screen that accordingly okay thank you any alderman wishes to speak just click a button all of me play you this yes thank you thank you mayor one of the things that's been brought up by some citizen and I it's a concern of mine is that we're using environmentally good technology you know energy saving design energy saving materials so that we have something that's economical to run and efficient and long-standing I mean that's your company subscribes to that as well correct we have we have two lead certified buildings it happened to not be police department buildings but where the design the designer of this project is a lead certified professional and highly knowledgeable about the techniques that we can apply and where they're prudent and where it makes a long term sense thank you thank you mr. mayor just going back to the mechanical part of the bill then what you're saying to us is those mechanicals will be hidden quite nicely so that you know that shouldn't be an issue at all from an architectural standpoint yes we did we architects don't like to see the mechanical engineers really do like to see them we don't but we would be proponents of the philosophy that came up relative to another topic we did a communication center in Waukesha and the the issue relative to that was how to keep vehicles from hitting the building and so the design of the site took into account that we had drainage soils and use the drainage soils to actually be barriers so where we're using building elements we want to try to get more than one use out of them so in the the consideration of something like a drainage well if we use that as an element to make the building more secure because vehicles can't hit the building we get more bang from the buck by putting it in a place where it does two things rather than one and so in considering that if we're looking at mechanicals it certainly wouldn't be a good design if we put a mechanical unit up here and then had to screen it so we want to use the building that already has mass to use the mass of the building that we're already doing it for a purpose to get an end product that reduces something else that would be a ripple down so we want to be cognizant of those efforts thank you Alderman Barnes thank you your honor Mr. Sam and as if you could go back to that area of the Sally Port I just got a couple questions about how that's going to work envision them driving in to the Sally Port and then is there going to be a way that then when they're when they want to proceed over to the tension the sentence center that they can just circle out of there or how do you how's that potentially going to work or is it too early to tell you well we already had some feedback from the police on that issue and it's likely that it's going to be reconfigured into a drive through so the way it was envisioned initially was it was more of a perpendicular environment will abandon that and we'll go to a drive through concept and that idea it's likely that this driveway would widen out we'd be able to proceed through on either direction this might actually become a little bit bigger and you might see more paving in the zone but the idea is drive through the space rather than drive in back out so so it would make that adjustment according it would be completely enclosed though so they're not exposed to the elements when they take the the suspects out of the cars they're going to be inside yes okay good it's in the building okay and then they're holding they're holding our interview rooms for the suspects will be in close proximity correct it's this zone it's hard to read it's booking part of the idea is that we want to get watch command approximate the dispatch as well as the booking area because that person maintains surveillance of both areas so we're looking at that as being sort of the linchpin of the design but other issues relative to booking is exterior access so when we release someone we're not taking them through the building and then proximity to patrol which has the lion's share of the effort relative to booking initially and gets them back in the patrol zone where they can do their paperwork and the like without having to go through the building and if I could just ask one more then the enclosed garage is envisioned to be on the west side or would that be over on the north side we're not sure yet in this idea it would be the north but we've already talked at at some length about the likelihood that the building might start to move a little bit to the south I think that the north zone of the the the site being available for parking makes some sense it's all me also makes some sense potentially for future expansion and you know the next 50 years and it's likely that we would start to maybe see some of that enclosed space migrate to the east when this starts to become a little fatter it's likely that some of these components on the eastern portion would migrate into the building and the building we get fatter and then that would be the zone that the garage would be in but we're not sure if that's necessarily the best approach quite yet thank you one more over Hannah thank you mayor John can you tell us a little bit about your philosophy on the open space quarter that goes through and how you envision the the the various departments being able to utilize that space the wider area that's designated and white off the lobby is in it it matches in the three dimensional diagram this raised central zone along this edge that area is generally a collaborative space it allows mixing of if we were to view these as suites that patrol was in an area and investigations was in an area it allows those groups to meet in an area that's more significant than just a five foot wide corridor so it allows happen just meeting by happenstance in exchange of information by happenstance and it's it's not an atypical idea that we see not necessarily municipal buildings but within sort of corporate culture that the overall experience of working is enriched by commingling of ideas it's something that we're doing actually in an academic building in Madison that takes the approach that philosophically it's like one big coffee pot but it happens all day without that distraction if we can get that cross pollination that mixing of environment for people that don't necessarily have to do it otherwise it's more likely that information is going to be exchanged that makes the job that they do more efficient more profound and better be better informed people working in a building like that. Thank you. Please continue. I'd like to talk about the schedule and I'll look at it in terms of where we think we are today and then from an optimistic viewpoint that I think will be generated as part of the December exercise so we would initially envision having schematic design extending through February design development is the point where the engineers become more profoundly involved in the project they start to attend meetings and defined systems and thicknesses of walls based on what's necessary to engineer the facility would happen in a two month process in March and April and then we would start to wean them in into construction document mode in April and really extend through July bid the project in August and we would forecast a 12 month process of building the project that would complete the project in September of 2008 there's an alternative that based on how well the the schematic design goes and this is still very early in the process when things are very fluid schematic design is it's a it's a design process sometimes you have really good events that make the day very good sometimes you take a step back sometimes you have to reiterate things and review them from a different perspective if the design really comes together fully then we think we can cut a month out of the schematic design schedule which would complete it essentially in January and if that happens we'd be looking to complete the construction documents in in June hopefully the beginning of June of 2007 and where we see that that might be advantageous as if we're if we have got the contractor on board in July of 2007 we can probably look at a compressed construction schedule we would have fully five months before the weather goes bad so we'd probably be enclosed we'd look at potentially cutting the 12 month schedule down to 10 months and there are advantages in that regard so the the effort I think is going to be can we get a plan in place that seems to make some sense operationally budgetarily and fulfill the design goals that we've identified do so in a way that allows us to have adequate documents thorough documents and do so in the opportunity that relates to that is can we get that out in June so that we've got more time for the contractor to build the site when the weather is good and compress the construction schedule as a result are there any questions relative to the schedule yes there's a question here over sushi thank you your honor and first of all I'd like to thank Mr. Sabin ash for bringing in a proposal tonight with the first go around the total project cost comes in at eight point eight million dollars and I really appreciate you keeping in mind the nine million dollar cap so thank you very much for bringing in this proposal there is a committee that's meeting a joint shared service committee between the city and the county and they have been spending the last couple months looking at the possibility of going with the joint dispatch they overcame the first hurdle and decided to move forward with looking at how they would structure it and how they would organize it if we go jointly and there's a new committee that's being formed I believe they're given 60 or 90 days to look at this and given the schedule at what point in the schedule would you need to know if we're going to have telecommunication services in the new police station or not when would you need to know that if the effort was to remove the program space from the building as soon as possible because where it sits currently in the plan is is it's right up there and it's in it's integrated into the building so it's right here it's not the same as let's say if we had let's use as a let's say we're talking about this from an evidence perspective and we could just basically lop this corner off that could go out of ways but in this case if you said get rid of the space sooner rather than later if you looked at it you said I'll reserve the space I'm going to build the building it's just going to be shell I'm not going to fit it out for communications I'm going to fit it out for something else then you could actually carry that out quite a ways and we could actually design the building maybe even do an alternate bit on what it might be as a communication center what it might be as something else and that could actually go out through said basically the spring first quarter of 08 07 so if you were if you're looking at it from the perspective of you wanted to get rid of the space because of where it is it's very hard to do if you said I'll carry that as just space in the building it would be something else in the future to evolve into something else that could actually go out into the spring of 07 thank you oldman born thank you your honor going down to the bottom of the of this sheet here where it says 32,000 to 35,000 square feet with a 10 to 20,000 foot pole building I guess the projected growth for Sheboygan over the next 20 years is only 4 or 5,000 people I think I think I have that figure right in your opinion if we get close to the 35,000 square feet in your opinion is that square footage with that kind of growth perceived to four or five thousand dollars over four or five thousand people over the next 20 years is from your experience would that make this police station portion of the building sufficient well when we had the original program that gets very close to hitting the building components irrespective of vehicle maintenance garage and other big spaces which are part of the discussion about the magnitude of the project it's really close to hitting the building pieces which were the rooms the space is the offices the pieces that the PD and we had worked initially on on sizing it's really close to hitting those so I would say yes with the exception of the discussion about fleet or other peripheral items or major programs it's really close to hitting the building piece that we were targeting how many square feet are we projecting for the for the communications I don't remember what that was in terms of net square feet it is 1,325 so that would be that would be the 9 11 dispatch area yes we built it in there okay okay that's all for now thank you it has sort of segwayed into the budget so I think you've all got a budget sheet in front of you what we've tried to do is as we have in the past is provide a comprehensive budget that's transparent you know where the money is and the effort is going to be a maximize the value of the project and maximize the value of the project is going to be building in things that will cost less in the long run value engineering or cost benefit analysis building is no spaces we can in identifying and pocketing the space into places where it's less costly and prudent to put it because it is less costly or it can evolve I prefer to think about the project not necessarily in terms of future growth but adaptability so when we start looking at storage rooms and things like that where traditionally in the past you might say a storage room needs one outlet or something we would tend to look at it and forecast that maybe we need to pre-invest in that storage room build it is all we're in office and in the future you'd be able to move into that expediently and effectively so as we view the budget we you know like anytime else in the project you're always cautious about where you are I think the number is a good number I think we will have opportunities to add value be it in shelf space or magnitude of pole building or garage space relative to the building and we'll be doing everything that we can to increase the usable building area as part of the progression of the design or the evolution of the design. Oldman-Born. Thank you, Your Honor. When I toured the Oak Creek police station which was also one of your one of one of the that you helped build Chief Bauer said that I'm just looking at a line item here for office furniture that he was able to get a government price on that furniture I don't know how he did it but he said on the scale of 10 he was able to get a like a seven quality furniture and it was beautiful it really was is that something that you automatically do when you're you know with the office furniture to try to get that government price to get you know up an upscale in the quality for a lot less money. Well the I'll just review sort of broadly how furniture is procured in the in the systems furniture market the if you were doing an office building and you had movable partitions that's the kind of furniture that we're referring to. There are a number of different suppliers there are two different mechanisms for procuring that furniture relative to municipalities one is to bid the product out and the difficulty with bidding the product out is they're not all the same they just aren't they're not engineered the same if everybody engineered them the same there wouldn't be seven different companies providing furniture they all think they have a better way of doing something price points are different quality levels are different so bidding the product out is very difficult there's another mechanism in place which is buying off the state contract. You may have heard it that way it's not necessarily exactly that way but what the furniture vendors do is they basically bid the furniture products out in a competitive environment and lock that price in to all government agencies and so what happened on Oak Creek which is it's still a bid product is if you go and buy off of that magnitude contract there are certain price points and levels for all the furniture that are guaranteed by the by the vendors and you can basically go in knowing what the furniture costs which is very difficult in a bid climate because you really don't know it's hard to furnish something without knowing what it's going to cost. So the effort there and it's been effort that has been used in other municipalities is you essentially go in and you have this bid list of product and you fit your budget into that product and you can control price points on things that are important so where a task chair that may be lists at $1,200 which sounds exorbitant but that's what they list for maybe has an actual bid price of something less than that maybe $400 it might be on the state contract for $300. You can go in there and you can start to see where it's appropriate to spend a lot of money on a task chair because somebody's going to be using it for an extended period of time and where you might spend less money on a certain kind of chair in a different area that doesn't take the abuse need the adaptability in communications traditionally those are very expensive chairs because people sit on them very long in a training room you're not going to see a $300 chair you can see a stacking feature or something else so what it allows you to do is it allows you to tailor your budget to exactly what you want and pick your price point so that you have a comprehensive idea of everything that you're taking and it's likely that we would there's some line items in here for rehabilitation there usually some card files and some other unique pieces of equipment that the police department has that are sort of irreplaceable sort of like the card file that you saw at the library hard to get now so there's money in there to be able to electrostatically paint that rehabilitate restore that furniture so there's still money in the budget as well to look at some of the pieces that we'd like to take over and have a consistent appearance with thank you that's all I had for today anything else want to thank the alderman for their patience to we've come a long ways thank you very much we're moving forward is there a motion to adjourn second all in favor say aye stand adjourned