 Hello, hello. Today is May 19th and we have a regular governance meeting. We announced in the developer melon piece, we have a quite packed agenda for today. We have some news, we have roadmap updates review, though no all topics have been submitted and I'm looking for I'm not submitting my request. Jenkins JEP process updates, knowledge updates, with many sub topics to be in Ruby runtime to determine what are the next steps. I think half issues of opening governance. Front of Jenkins Revamp, plugin end of life policy. As you may guess, we are going to like reach these topics. But yeah, let's start and see what we did. So, yeah, news. So the first and most important news, we had Google summer of code announcements. This year, we will have five projects. I mean, I think it's project that is also one project focus on spinnaker. So projects we have cloud events, plugin for Jenkins get financials binding. It's more different from materials. Most likely, maybe open telemetry will still discuss that security with the data for Jinx. And semantic version, which is also subject for remain from what I heard in the chat. But yeah, so what it means we have five quite important projects. So three are rather focused on Jenkins in the cloud. One semantic version is required for this DLC stories. I'm using Jenkins delivery pipelines with this concept of the previous contributor summit and get credentials. Yeah, well, it's a must have. Because it is much on every Jenkins instance. And it's quite important, especially again, it will be security trends. So, improving credentials binding, I think would be important addition to the plugin. So these are topics. Today we had a kickoff meeting for community bonding. We had something like 10 participants there for them, your students. And yeah, we still will publish recording, but so far so good. We will start at the prospect of a similar sleep because yeah, there are some topics discussed, as always, there are some struggles, etc. But overall, it seems to be good. Yeah, you start coming to bonding. So we encourage everyone to help students if they reach out in the community is welcome the students and if any of them is watching welcome to the Jenkins community. So, it's a great update that we will put applications which was unable to accept. So right now, I'm looking into alternatives. And if I find something, I might come up with a budget request for this summer. So that we could run a program on our hex mentorship. Because here we had several project ideas, which are quite important, but we should be unable to accept you to various reasons. So just to show you what we have from the automatic specification. Again, not this year. Custom Jenkins distributions again not this year, or at least not the same JSOC, but it would be awesome to actually get it to the operational point. The installation manager improvements. My parents, this is Jenkins all of these topics are quite important. So, if you could have a program, it would be nice. Right now it's just heads up because I have nothing concrete to ask for. I still have an action item to actually send an update about our budget. Maybe one important topic. So we will have to move out of the SPI. Yeah, we discussed the SPI. The original plan that was that we can use the SPI treasury as long as we need. When we were discussing this into some dating, but as long as we need to and basically three years of transition, etc. So three years of transition. And I asked them and they said that the migrate. So there is no strict need to be created tomorrow. There are some action items on the Jenkins governance board, but I think that you need to go to LFX crowdfunding. I still have an action item to get to other board members to LFX crowdfunding management so so that it's not a bottleneck. And after that, yeah, we can initiate the transition. And my another action item is to actually send a budget report. But yeah, right now, on our accounts, you have something like $14,000 from them, almost 8000 GSOC money we receive this GSOC students organizations. So, yeah, it's not like we have the same amount of money. But yeah, we have never fundraised. And if needed, we could try fundraising. Okay. Any questions, concerns, or you move on. Okay, then I see you have talk to me nation updates. So last meeting, I will be the nominee from the Jenkins community. After that, there was a need to submit an admission to statement. I shared this statement with the governance board and with the developer mailing list. I got some feedback address to that and submitted before the deadline. So, yeah, now it's submitted. You can send statement somewhere in the developer mailing list. Yeah, we are waiting for the process to be announced. And on the related news, a CDF has just announced general member seats. I mean, this year, two seats in the talk will be left from among the general members. And if you know a contributor from a general member, you can eliminate them. So you can find it's taking the other side committee. And there is a description for eligibility, but basically any member of general member of CDF, any employer can be eliminated. So, you won't consider doing that. So basically what is the lowest increasing volume of Jenkins users and contributors and the CDF talk. But yeah, let's see how it goes. So, Raihan has released the release candidate for the next look CS baseline. It's announced in the developer mailing list and again everyone is welcome to test it and provide feedback. Again, we have open questions about how we promote release candidates better to facilitate feedback. But yeah, the release is there, so hopefully somebody tests that and provides feedback. Any comments about this release? 334, is there any things you're concerned about in general? In this release, so there was a patch which we had to regard because yeah, there was a teaching my deal of Firefox, which they implemented that then regarded so Daniel has more details about that I believe. I mean, the original patch has been in weekly releases for a few months now, but only fairly recently was discovered that it caused a regression, mostly in HTML unit. And I think in the testing for that it was also revealed that either the new patch or already my patch mark you will know that also cause cause problems with form submissions being blocked. It may already have been in my patch. It was already in your patch and the delta the revert has healed it. And the, the change from Thomas, Thomas, Grenier de la Tour also seems to have healed it so we've got a potential fix. We've one we've got the revert, and that's in the 2.2 89.1 release candidate I've confirmed it. And we've got a proposed address the problem that Firefox brings also that's pushed up as a candidate needs more review still. Or at least I think that was what you would ask for Daniel was please could we get more more eyes to review this particular change. Right. Yeah, that was when I thought it would go into the weekly. I don't know what the current status is. But yesterday it was, you know, fairly late changes in the pull request, I think we'll just take care of it. It would be nice to have the new patch already in point one. It doesn't sit right with me to revert something that's been in the weekly for quite a long time, but it is what it is. Yeah, for me it was important to revert it from the weekly because of how embarrassed I am that I didn't detect, didn't detect sooner the problem and chase it down. So I was aware I had a problem I thought it was forms conforms modernization, I was wrong it wasn't forms modernization for once that blocked a submit so yeah. And you tried to ask that and thanks a lot for that. And thanks a lot for everyone was delighted. So, and anyway, the scope isn't that big in terms of web ports, the scope in terms of features we bring from weekly is also not terribly big, because we didn't have major breaking changes. We have table studies, etc. in the previous LCS baseline and things like Ruby runtime, etc. we haven't merged it in time so yeah this release is relatively safe. Yes, I haven't created the change log yet and I hope to do that over the course of the next multiple days. I'm not the best one to talk about this impact but I know that we are we have been seeing some failures on the PR 5206, which is Jenkins 69 oh two about SSHD bump. From what the 72.6, and it seems to break a few things and so I just like two seconds ago marked this as a regression I think correct me if I'm wrong. But yeah, I'm not absolutely sure I didn't have the time to dig into it. But yeah, I'm not sure why it was not mentioned more by people as a regression. But it seems to be one. If you look at the PR itself, one person said that he had to he or he had to go back to the to the 283 before the work to get back back to normal. So, we are still assessing the impact and what is possible on the side but yeah, I'm not sure what is the last radius on this one seems to be. So what's this and that's why we have these candidates because we still have two weeks to make adjustments. Exactly. I mean my point is that I'm not fully fully sure yet but I was about pointing that I didn't tell you today. I'm not on the PR team, you know, typically team and Rehan to see what they think about back pouring this one. No, but pouring actually there's no fix. Thinking about, well, making for potential. Okay, talking about the SSHD bump. Yeah, that seems to be, I had an evaluation in Jira. Yeah, I just looked at this yesterday. Yeah, I think it's, it does seem to be a regression I think just affecting people using RSA kits only. It looks like it's best fixed by just updating SSHD again. They've published the tag that has the fix that doesn't seem to be on central so maybe it's still being held up and release candidate status somewhere I'm not sure. Yes. The SSHD they have a process is voting so similar to Apache. Yeah. So it may be something like one week before the release and before the station actually release. And if something is needed you can drop a message to the developer mailing list. SSHD has another mailing list and you can ask to facilitate or we can stage it on our local infrastructure is really needed. I mean it might make sense to revert this in the LTS branch. I don't have a strong risk to get it guys. Yeah. Yeah, thanks all. So anything else about the release candidate. Okay, let's move on then. So that means we still haven't finished news. So a quick update. So we have been in contact with Amazon to renew our sponsorship for AWS. We've been quite successful about that. The Jenkins port, Olivier, Mark are in CC. I don't know if as well, maybe not. But yeah, so what currently happens, we have agreement from AWS to consider to continue sponsorship. But there is still open concerns about how our infrastructure is organized because our Amazon account is still owned by cloudies. And we had issues with that because we're brilliant on AWS, not the piece, but so we discussed our options and we're good. We would rather proceed with the touching the Jenkins entirely to the new account and initiate the transition to CDF so that we could do basically what we did with Microsoft infrastructure before and we could close this topic altogether. So right now. I think the big win there is that the cloud because cloudies owns it only cloudies employees were able to access it and if we get it migrated, then the entire infrastructure team can manage it if they want. Yes, that's right. But on the other side, I want to add something quite important. This means that we know this means once we move that account to the CDF will have to pay attention to the sponsoring because in the past when I mean clubbies was paying for that account. When we needed, which was quite useful. And so once we move that account to the CDF. I'm not I don't see I mean I don't know yet how it will work because we have a limit of 10,000 per month that you can spend on infrastructure. So we'll have to pay attention about the costs of that as that account as well and we may have to reduce our infrastructure. Because we already when we moved Azure account to the CDF we had to reduce from 20 K per month to 10 K. And part of the workload was moved to the Amazon account. Last year that that account was sponsored by Amazon. The sponsoring is renewed this year, but yeah this this account run critical services for the project. So you need to monitor that we also need to have someone connected as a credit card. Hopefully it will be the continuous delivery foundation. I raised the ticket to the CDF I have meeting this Tracy tomorrow, and then this CDF talk on Tuesday, and we'll see what we can do, but yeah right now is we just started that. Yeah, with the monthly given is right until we move in the detached completely from called this. It will be difficult to have community contributions there in terms of management. I do know that Damian has reached out to to Gerocian, I think I'm going to add the board and Olivier to that thread. So that, but that might help keep your costs down to if we can spread out sponsorship for more clouds. That would be nice because then we reduce the risk on the one I mean once once one one cloud provider removed sponsoring that just reduce the risk. Keep in mind, maintenance costs because maintaining multi clouds setup is not exactly cheap. And you also have limited bandwidth infrastructure team. I mean if it's just like the spinning up the CIA Jenkins machines that would use cost because you won't need as many of them on one cloud and that less maintenance than critical infrastructure and communities clouds and stuff. That's that's a difficult balance to find, because monitoring the cost also take time and sending and communicate with all the people to find ways to reduce the cost also take time so. But yeah otherwise that that's a really great news. Sorry. What if we had infinite money. Like what we had to what we used to have with Azure for four years. That's like, yeah, you go somewhere and pick it up and show me the money submit. It would be nice. But yeah otherwise with Amazon account that's really nice because that's quite a mean. Okay. Anyway, it was quick heads up, but we are working on that. The next topic is from Daniel about trouble with three note IRC. What do you like to speak about that. Yeah, so this kind of exploded today. Our IRC channels are on the free note IRC network, which is sort of hosting quite a bunch of open source projects I think Linux some Linux distributions PHP all of their IRC channels on this network. And it looks like there's been kind of a I mean it's described as a hostile takeover of the network where previous where the previous admins are being forced to hand over access to the infrastructure. And I mean, I provided some links in the notes and it basically has this page that all it has up with links to basically the two points of view about a dozen or so volunteer staff have resigned today. And it's difficult to say what's going on really. It's just something we probably should be aware of those staff who have resigned are starting a new IRC network. And of course, if we need to migrate elsewhere, we may be able to consider other options as well. In additional alternatives to IRC, just you know something to keep in mind, I hope that there will be a clearer picture over the next few days and weeks. Perhaps we can look at what other projects with perhaps a larger stuff that can deal with drama like this, decide to do or not to do and do something similar. So that is the list here. And here are projects that are still going to get what number projects announced and that they would be moving or whether they really would get to be seen. I mean, to that note, I think it's the same as when Microsoft over get up everyone was quick to jump ship and then some people did and some people didn't. I think the only real concerns are private issues or private channels, which as Daniel pointed out, are not heavily used anyways. So I think the rest can. Jenkins security is located in private RC channel. Yeah. And if you go on security, we also have RC bot running, which has access to our need hub. What was that. Well, I didn't hear you said the what has access to Jenkins at sea boat. Yes. So if you want to disaster snuggle with somebody exploiting access to this boat through free note access and wipe out our repository. Doesn't have destructive commands. I already renamed Jenkins. Jenkins repository once. Yes, renaming a repo is not destructive or like the only destructive action that exists is deleting a g-rock component and moving the issues elsewhere. Everything else is non destructive. So I think what I was trying to say is I think this is a high priority issue, but as Daniel pointed out until a little bit of the dust settles a bit. I think it's a little premature to say hey we're definitely shipped to this of that or whatever thing. And the only ones that were critical were cert. I think certain shouldn't. I don't know. Just delete or move to another channel because the honest outside my link is that there is not that much activity. Right. Most of the activity takes place in JIRA. The search general hasn't been really active recently. Something for us to be mindful that from now on. We probably should move private direct chats. I think the queries I think they are called an IRC elsewhere. I don't think you should have those. Okay, so on the high level, my vote is still Gitter. It's our matrix is centralized on that, but I think we need to spend time to investigate and make a decision, but I would like to, you know, as a recurring topic for me is to standardize our things. We're a little bit everywhere we're spread out very thin all over the places. Yeah, maybe it's something we really needed to discuss. So regardless of free note, but you know, is another cool function. And since we have progress with this course, maybe it's something we could actually try moving forward. This course is English replacement, not the chart replacement. Yeah. Yeah, but for many, our queries in Jenkins, it's basically when I bought for the majority of users. It's the best again, even if we, you know, I agree though, I don't think this course replaces chat. Yeah, but we have IRC, we have Gitter, we have Slack now in many subprojects and CDF. So maybe getting rid of one of them is possible. Yeah, but yeah, but there is a difference because in the case of IRC. I mean, except I mean, we already use Gitter by default in most of the projects and we only have IRC for Jenkins infrastructure. Jenkins hosting as well, I think. Yeah. And it's only, I mean, that's only concern a small group of people. So if you tomorrow we decide to move to a different RC channel or use something else. It's not like busy. It's not like if we have to move the committee from the Jenkins Gitter channel to somewhere else. The Jenkins channel IRC is still pretty big. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, but you always have people staying on our see whatever you do and and I mean I don't see it as an issue with people want to stay in the Jenkins channel just to discuss and ask questions, as long as other people answer questions. It's not officially the main communication channel anyway. But it is listed and that's my point is we should be very clear on saying this is where people will be there available to help out if people do other places that's fine, but we should be clear on this is the official. I thought that we officially moved to Gitter for the. The end. So we basically said that whatever works. And the current is that the community sector so many channels. So considering them doesn't seem like the worst idea because for example this course could replace some million pieces and I believe some chat chats, because many chats actually operating the coin a mode and discourse is quite good for me. Yeah, let's see. It's just on the topic we need to result now and somebody wants to drive at it. Yeah, can we can we please move on. We are already passed off. Yeah, I agree. So, any closing words on that. Okay, so. We have several open pool request. Actually, we have on the pool request which is related to roadmap content, we can take a look at them quickly. Because again, I haven't submitted my pool request I was trying to planning to do. So, one update is from current behalf on my cloud native seek. And basically what they are cloud made cloud events support. It's a G so project this year. I believe that we have a consensus that's reasonable to have. Then the rest of the client flagging. So this one is a bit more complicated because we already have two interests on the roadmap about tip tone. To be honest, I'm not exactly sure what is the difference and your car is not here today. So, for the phone we already have. We have pipeline build steps, which was basically a client plug in alpha. And the repair and they can move it to them, and we have tick on the client's execution engine, which was making a jinx pipeline pluggable in terms of pipeline execution engine and making a tick on the first class citizen. Well, it's technically possible not to see it to be decided, but the idea was like that. And the question is whether we want to add another topic for tip tone because he basically duplicates this one, but this another description opinions. I'm not sure what your ask is, like it sounds reasonable to me. So, yeah, if you had that we will have basically three tip on items. Each of them will interlock with each other. So it might be a bit complicated. So, I think all like what you said is that the tecton tecton pipelines build step is, in fact, the tecton client plugin. Yeah, there we go so. So isn't that really saying that the thing that she added for tecton client plugin is already there maybe we need to rephrase it to be tecton client plugin. I don't know if the tecton pipelines build steps I don't know if that would have helped her realize it was not it was it was a duplicate because it seems to be a duplicate I don't I don't see us adding duplicate entries into the roadmap as a benefit right now. Yeah, and so there is some data roadmap. So we discussed at the last meeting. And right now these features do not seem to be important enough to be put a separate roadmap interest. So maybe I'll just take action item to remove this part play and replace right. Right so because for me tecton client plugin is, is more explicit than the tecton pipeline pipeline build step, just for my benefit, but I'm okay either way. We're creating this roadmap I think there was no tecton client plugin. Oh, got it. Thank you. So it was a bit well ago but yeah, it's basically what we have started. Okay, and the next is docs and platform roadmap of this maybe you would like to speak about that. Yeah, so in the February 2021 contributor summit we had ad site search was one of the items listed. I believe it's done and released for both the plug in site and for Jenkins that I for www.jankins.io and Jenkins on Kubernetes. We started it, and we've got another person who's working on it now during our docs office hours, Asia and Australia time so I think those are reasonable updates. Yes, speaking of that, will we need to create LFX mentorship for this right now the person is doing it without LFX mentorship but we would like to like to consider that for some time in the future. Our idea was September ish that we would consider doing a sponsored program. Yeah. You'll right and sorry the embarrassment for Sheikot Africa is it's already done, but we had agreed in February as as part of the presentation that it should be on the roadmap this is me doing it much belated. We don't have much problems with it. So any objections. Okay, so all of it is straightforward so we can just say that. Okay. And we need to spend more time on repanning the roadmap because it's a bit dated. We still have some items from February contributor summit we didn't put there we have another one. And together with Mark, we also have a talk about how we did the public drinks roadmap that's in the corner. So I guess we are in the hook to update this roadmap before we record. Um, for calling feature is there a reason that those roadmap items are not tagged for the board. The PRS. I don't think I've seen. Yeah, I'm just like, we have auto reviewer on drinks IO that says, this is a board and this gets assigned to board right. Yeah, I guess it has broken at some point because I believe that could also be a contributor to review that, but you're right that now it doesn't happen. Yeah, so I think that I mean, I don't think this needs to be discussed like the roadmap is necessarily need to be in each meeting. Yeah. Again, you can assign it to me or anyone can submit one line for request. Yeah. So, yeah, I think that we have agreement I will follow up with this apparently I'm not locked in from Firefox. Yeah, I was testing this candidate from Firefox. So, yeah, let's move on. So Jenkins job process updates. So there is a long discussion. Basically, we agreed on the most of the things, I believe. So there is a pull request submitted, which addresses the agreements, we had a few iterations with Liam about how things should be working that etc. But I think that basically it's ready to go. There are a few important changes. So we agreed on terminology updates. So instead of sponsored reviews champion. So basically, somebody who drives the initiative, without the practical changes in how it relates. We also replace the review process. So we introduce Jenkins community as an entity presented by our open governance process. So, yeah, basically what we have discussion on the million keys consensus building and voting to the governance. If needed, or if there's no consensus, not even spending time on the meetings. So, yeah, basically the idea that this approach replace the day failure be the effect delegate, which was the biggest bottleneck in all our current jobs. We also introduce advisor role. So the role for advisors basically provide consulting this role is optional. It's basically how sponsor works in Java Japs. So it's an experienced contributor who just helps the job to happen. If somebody less experienced is willing to submit a job and go through the process, but it's optional. So basically we reduce, we remove BDFL delegate we remove BDFL as this unique entity and be an optional advisor, but optional. For example, if Jesse is the most popular author of Japs. If he decides it's another job, then I believe that you wouldn't need an advisor. Jesse has that. And also, yeah, there is open question about what we do with BDFL in general, because you're basically BDFL was only used as a karma in Japs one. What's the other games introduced and BDFL from the very beginning, even when it was a thing in the Python community, etc. Now I'm even more against what happened with this role. But right now we haven't received the response from Tiki whether he would like to step down as BDFL so that we move for this role for good. Yeah, Tiki would still remain Jenkins creator, Tiki will be managing this government board member, etc. And BDFL is just getting rid of one of the roles which does nothing. So question to both members and to contributors who work with the job process. Does it look same to you? At the moment it was mostly collaboration between me, Jesse and Lima. Yeah, any feedback is welcome. I need to do more detailed review like I would like to review it to think about it because I need to submit the JAP to proposing Java 11 as default. Yeah. It's a very important item that since we have a synchronous process, so we can build a consensus and even the strong consensus that we are fine. We agreed that we would have seven days to view period of the call for final feedback, so that if nobody shows up, we just merged. We have seven days in the process for any JAP acceptance, even a very strong consensus, but while taking our current situation when JAPs stay around for months and years without actually being assigned to BDFL delegate, I think that would be net improvement. So if you have any other ideas how to ensure that everyone had an opportunity to voice the opinion, please comment in the discussion. But yeah, right now, I just try to do it in this way. On the call. Yeah, there's been a lot of updates. So there is spending thread. There is one open questions. What are we doing with historical change? And there was written opinions because some people think that we should clean them up. Some people think that we should keep them. So, from people on the call, are there any strong opinions? Yes, but I don't think it makes sense to go into detail. So everyone, please go to the mailing list and comment. Yeah, I already commented on the list. Yeah, let's do so. Yeah, proving the remaining terms, we still have a number of open terms. Basically, we didn't do much progress about the past two weeks. It's still something on my letters, but yeah, there is nothing to approve right now. We still have terms like Jenkins controller for etc, where we need more feedback before we accept that. So, again, just moving on, but this topic is where we definitely back in the original ideas, because none of these terms seem to be good at the moment. So, yeah, maybe documentation seek health mark. Oh, yeah, Daniel says that everyone needs to review his PRs. You mean the Jenkins core ones, right? I mean, all of my PRs, but in this context, yes. Yeah, so just request the reviews from everyone on this call. I think that it would be fair. And yeah, let's try to get it over the line because, yeah, terminology now is definitely something you would like to progress until the next push event on May 29 in the developer man increased again is focused on terminology now. But taking the activity at the moment it seems that we won't participate in this and officially. So maybe it's a question to bodies. And for now, but yeah, right now it doesn't seem that we have organizers to run this event. This is how commit push thread somewhere here. This is the 29th so it's a Saturday. And yeah, I guess everyone has other things to do on Saturday. Okay, but yeah. Okay. So let's try to get this over the line. So yeah request from inclusive naming initiative about health is naming inclusive naming marketing promotion. The contributors have joined the included me includes the name initiative including this lock meetings, because you may have seen that there is a lot of requests happening right now. So just to share some insights, they're called this and this is sometime in cleaning up and also the rather contributors so I created terminology cleanup project, just that there is input request and you can see that we have almost 70 recent requests. So, yeah, and people participate. So I think that taking our history and decisions we made in August. It would be nice if you could participate in health vision. The name initiative. The moment we are looking for some more repose promotion and maybe having an interview with Jenkins project representative. So, I think that all is reasonable. I wonder whether anyone would like to be such a representative. I just don't have the balance to take on anything more right now. And I think we should identify someone outside this group. So I was thinking about just inviting Alex, so since he was leading the effort this summer. And he is an author of the blog post. So, if Alex would be able I think it would be great. But again, I'm not sure with this case of legalities days and Alex. Yeah, also have a lot of things on my plate. And I think for Mark, I believe, for the university season, etc. The villain is also busy from what I know. She's a typologist she can join with this meeting. So, yeah, maybe we might actually must actually send a public call. But I think that it would be important for us to participate in some extent. And separate related topic is actually about officially joining the inclusive naming initiative as a project community. So just so there is inclusive naming. Just to provide some feedback it was basically started by CNCF and a few other companies. So, yes, it's a main facilitator now so Priyanka Sharma is GM and CNCF and also one of the leaders of this project also you know many of you know Stephen Augustus is also one of co-founders and many other contributors, then get Cisco, IBM, both of them like Jenkins contributors and Red Heart. And what do they have they have related projects like conscious language and technology by Kubernetes, etc. So we can easily just that Jenkins there by Jenkins community or whatever. There's a lot of knowledge in Jenkins. So this looks straightforward. And I think that we could do that. You also need to give me the landing endpoints we have some in advocacy and outreach stick. But I think that we actually aggregate and that is content would be still beneficial for Jenkins community. Participating in the initiative officially. And would it make sense for us to join this these etc. I am always I'm always worried about taking on more responsibility without finishing the stuff we already started. I'm same with Kevin. If we can find someone else we can drive that that thing that would be really great. But we, I mean, we already I'm driving the naming. So after Marky and Alex stepped down. Yeah, I inherited it so basically about the implementation it would be rather me being called this like work. It's a lot of questions about feasibility whether we want to happen. It's not a big deal in terms of time. At the moment I would personally like to pass. I mean, I think it's a good thing to do. But I am so concerned about how many projects we have half started. I don't want to advertise the fact that it's like get people say hey look Jenkins is starting this progress I rather say hey we're done this progress and then add it to the list. Yeah, but but isn't this one. See I'm the other direction with this one because this is a project we've already started and all it's doing is providing another link to our terminology update. So I don't this particular when I don't think adds any significant burden to us that we don't already have. My, my, I'm just wondering if we could maybe reach out to one of the people who have with the with the naming renaming so maybe one of those people can step up and help on that initiative. So and currently we work with several contributors and so we can cruise your name initiative angelic job at current target. So they joined already the slugs that we've been active because for example three here created some tools for discovering terminology on screenshots. Then we have some stories to share about governance how we approached the vision making in a big project. So, just by sharing the experience we already contribute to this initiative and I don't think that there will be be covered. I understand the given spawn as well and if you could find someone who would take leadership, maybe. So do you noted. Let's see. So I guess for that we again public call. And the same for CDF so for CDF there is also a list of members, I will be bringing up CDF joining because CDF over the course of naming, et cetera. Interoperability seek and terminology cleanup and that project. So for Steve it makes sense to join this list. And for CDF it's actually free. Because, yes, they have created an inimity, because of the initiative and they are still defining what will be the membership piece, et cetera. The membership piece seem to be a bit high at the moment, but for the CDF as a nonprofit it's free. So maybe CDF will join and maybe we will get some help from the marketing team in terms of promotion and related communications. I don't want to have Jenkins as a showcase of inclusive naming cleanup, because firstly, we are quite better than inclusive naming cleanup my humble opinion. But at the same time we are working on that so I think that being presented there would make sense. Okay. Anything else about that. Okay, closing time. Should we just vote on adopting the subproject because it seems quite straightforward. I thought I was already done so I'm on board with adopting it. Plus one for me. Plus one to vote on it and plus one for me that vote to approve. Does that mean that you would move the stapler git repository to the Jenkins organization or we keep the stapler under the stapler organization. I didn't provide it but the Jenkins governance would apply there officially. And your current it's Daniel and JC is stepped out means. So JC is already on board. I believe that Daniel hasn't voted. I mean it makes sense to integrate stapler into the Jenkins project. If KK is okay with that I don't have a strong opinion on keeping the org separate. We could do it fairly cleanly by by just keeping the org separate and you know adding a few more contributors as admins and then we're done. Yes, but if we keep the org we need to throw out a bunch of folks who haven't contributed in the last decade. Because it seems weird to have these, you know, all the cons around that's. So what we will be definitely doing is moving idea stapler plugin, because I believe we have a consensus about renaming Jenkins plugin, because nobody else uses stapler enough to really need integration with intelligence idea. So that ability if you have a consensus on the mailing list, or if somebody is a post the same happen to this means plug in that means plug in is already within the Jenkins, I give up organization. So basically, they will be under the Jenkins rule, whatever happens. But you're for stapler, I think that you're moving repositories rather implementation detail. So the step that anyway goes to kind of our tick part of our sub projects. I mean, as discussed in the minute, he's a new efficient recommended for using outside Jenkins. So, well, basically it will be just our heritage. And as I said, there is no practical way we would ever step from Jenkins. I guess it's a small coding exercise for anyone, if you want to try. But yeah, so I think it would be natural if we just take it all life each year. So, just, then you'll listen, you think that key case approval is a must right, because key key belongs to these contributors who haven't contributed for a while. And it's kind of his project in a sense, if if I were, if I were the men of a repo in Koska's namespace, I wouldn't move it out there without his approval either. And this is not that dissimilar to me. Okay, I agree. So I'll try to get explicit approval from Kiki. Yeah, we're losing people. So do you want to press it with other topics or do you want to shut down for now? I think we can shut down for now. Yes, so what do we have the placating program runtime just let's try to get the progress in the mailing list, because it feels like the job is almost done. The process is almost done. So we should probably push it forward. We have issues. Yeah, we can keep discussing it in the coming, but I don't think that there are blockers for experimenting. And the friends of Jenkins, there is no hurry at all for that. And again, we can discuss in the mailing list. Again, I don't know if policies. I don't know if it's been time meeting. So, thanks everyone. And yeah, thanks again for your time. Maybe we need to switch to weekly meeting so whatever, but hopefully you won't be have so many topics in the next two weeks. Yeah. Last but not least, don't forget about configurator summit. And if you have ideas about agenda topics tracks, please comment there. Thank you.