 Welcome to the Home Lab Show, Episode 113, which it'll say that by the time this gets published because I know the title actually says 112 when I clicked on it. But I just pushed an update. So you may have got the notice for Episode 112, but this is actually 113. So if you listen to the audio version, this has been fixed. Yeah, it's been fixed. But yeah, the title, we can fix it live here. But we have been a little busy. So we titled this episode Dev Random, but we do want to talk about a few things that do possibly affect Home Labbers, or maybe not. And that's where we have the title of ZFS bugs, open source project updates. There's actually breaking news this morning of a Next Cloud problem. And some of you may run that publicly exposed. Me and Jay have shamed you for that many times. So we'll continue to do so in this podcast, telling you you should put it behind a VPN. And if you're not behind a VPN, quit listening to our show and go update your Next Cloud instance that's publicly facing to the latest version. And now we can carry on. Mm-hmm. Gotta get those updates. First, let's get a quick ad read out of the way, and that is from our friends at Akamai Linode. We're going to call them that because that way I can just say it in one word, Akamai Linode. I can't find a good contraction which puts both in one. But they have been a sponsor of the show since the beginning. They have been great. We host our infrastructure on there for both the Home Lab show. And now, starting after this episode, LawrenceSystems.com is actually hosted on Akamai. And soon, my forms will be there as well. The cloud that they offer is pretty slick. Their marketplace for being able to put the apps on there, I used it a lot more doing some testing. And this is honest, and it's also part of an ad, I know. So there's obviously bias or pain me to say nice things right now, but it is really easy to use. I genuinely mean that. It has been an awesome service. It's been very reliable as well. We can speak to that from our experience here with the Home Lab show. And we thank them for being a sponsor. If you're looking for a great place to host your projects in the cloud for things you may not want to have on site, hey, build it in the Akamai cloud. Got to sign up offer down below, give them a click, and we thank them for sponsoring the show. Yeah, that's, I'm happy all my website stuff's on there. Add read over, but still happy personally that it's on there. It works. I mean, what more can I say? It works. It gets the job done. It works. It gets the job done. It's the JPAWS bill because there isn't one, haha. Yes, yes. Now, the first thing we're gonna start with is, let's get the, because I think we'll end with a notes discussion, but we start with the ZFS bug discussion, which it'll get a dedicated video once updates come out from some of the other places. But essentially a bug was found in ZFS. And it starts with, and first let's just stop any people wondering or speculating, is my data safe? This bug is extremely rare and extremely unlikely to affect you and it only seems to occur to my knowledge right now as the best information I have. If you are running ZFS locally and you're doing certain types of file copies local, as in not attached to a share. And it takes special circumstances to do this. There's all kinds of reading you can do on it. It's a copy bug where if you copy a file, the copy of that file, if the original file wasn't completely committed, this is kind of a brief oversimplification of a really complicated problem. If you have a file being written and you make a copy of that file, you end up with potentially that copy, but not the original file, the copy being partially or fully blank because the other file isn't committed. That's my understanding from an oversimplification of it. So this is not a scenario you're very likely to do where you're writing files, but before the file's done writing, you try to make a copy of it. Kind of a, that's the basics why it's rare, but they did the team over at IX Systems and a lot of other contributors really started digging into this because it was assumed this bug came from a new ZFS feature called block replication. I believe this was called a block copy, but it turns out the bug's deeper than that. And this was just kind of cool to watch the open source community really dive in together. And they really went through and lots of people contributed to testing. And this is a really important participatory part of open source. Lots of people who had the time, they wrote a script and they said, hey, here's the script. Hammer away at your system with the script. Let me know what hardware you're running on and if the bug occurs. This would help the people narrow things down. So lots of people, you don't have to be a coder, but the more information you can provide so we can get statistics of when it does, when it doesn't happen. Does it happen on MVMEs? Does it happen on SSDs? Does it happen on your standard hard drives? All that little bit of information is something developers, they only really have access to the hardware they have and maybe a couple of test systems and having a large diverse ecosystem of people contributing to the common good of it. But it's kind of cool to see the whole open source process play out and the bug get fixed, of course. Like I said, it's such a rare case that this would happen. And my understanding from reading an official statement in the forums from IAC system is this can't happen over a share. It has to happen by using the file system locally. So if you're using a share over SMB, iSCSI, NFS, any sharing, this isn't gonna happen. And it's not gonna happen on a Zvol. It's specifically any dataset running locally. And it didn't happen in TrueNAS. That is not where this bug was found, but it turned into the TrueNAS people talking about a lot. It was found, actually, I think, I feel like it was someone compiling a kernel. I'm trying to remember which Linux distro they were using. That's where this kind of started was they were doing some kernel compilation and had a ZFS array that they just ran their system on. I feel like it was an open SUSE system, but it really came down to ZFS. IAC systems, who is the people behind TrueNAS, took a deep interest in it because, well, they do a lot of contributions to ZFS. That's a huge part of the features we're getting, like DRAID, which we'll get an upcoming video, is now available in TrueNAS, but that came from contributions from IAC systems. This is also the delay problem because people see new features get added to the new ZFS and they're like, hey, Tom, your video is dated because you didn't show the ZFS expansion. I'm like, yeah, ZFS expansion got submitted. It's not available in the IAC systems code, but yes, that is a feature coming that is not available for production systems yet. That's, if you ever notice, there's different trains of things going in most all open-source projects, the dev train and the stable train. Most of the time you wanna be on the stable train, but hey, if you wanna go cutting edge, if you can, that's why there's kind of a lag, and especially when it comes to the confidence we have in our file systems, no one really wants to risk, you know, largest stores of data on the dev train for things. It's a tough one. Right, yep, absolutely. But yeah, that was kind of a fun bug to watch. The, everyone kind of just go through and sort out. I love it when people work together and solve a problem. It's the best part about all of this, I think. You know, the concept of, this is one of the objections people have to open-source is vendor accountability. And I went on a little rant on my LinkedIn with someone who said, there's not enough vendor accountability with open-source. I was like, no, no, no, just drop open-source. There's no vendor accountability. Microsoft is like one of the biggest offenders for doing terrible updates in a not timely manner, not fixing or addressing security issues. And no one ever, I mean, there's zero lawsuits that were won against them dragging their feet on the exchange programs. And this directly affected Fortune 500 companies that still haven't gotten off of exchange. And Microsoft was like, yeah, we will get around to fixing it properly eventually. They had bad, they literally had bad instructions on how to fix exchange. And Microsoft was not held accountable. So we're, it kind of burns down the whole excuse of, well, what vendor can I hold accountable for a problem? Well, seen as vendors are so well-wrapped in lawyers, they don't have accountable for any of their problems. You gotta go through like 10 people asking you to update your firmware without even listening to what you're trying to tell them before you even get anyone to even hear you. And when you do, they send it to another team and then another team that just kind of fizzles out, nothing happens. But with open-source, we could, you know, isolate where the problem is, identify the line of code that caused it and make a case for a pull request. And that's really just not something we can do when it comes to closed source. You know, years ago, I interviewed Jeffrey Snowber if you don't know who he is. Look about pretty interesting guy. He came up with a little thing called PowerShell, but he's also been awarded Distinguished Engineer twice at two different companies, IBM and Microsoft. He's actually a big open-source fanatic. I was actually, years ago, I did an interview with Jeffrey Snowber. And one of the things that he said that he loved when open-source came to Microsoft and he says, what, open the minds of people at Microsoft to think differently. And he was a big champion of this. He was also not liked by many other people, sometimes at Microsoft because of his open-source stance, but there's a reason I like Jeff and it's that whole open-source thing. But one of the things he said was, Microsoft never considered what it would be like if not just people contributed back suggestions to their product, but what if they could see the code and understand and then give a better suggestion back? He says it was like an aha moment there. And I should find that clip where he said that because he said it in a very elegant way, but it's one of those things that more and more companies need to embrace that, hey, cool, when your clients can see the code or in the open-source world in general, when they see the code, people look at it and go, I think, even if they don't necessarily write code, they may have some skills, they may go, hey, here's an idea of how this could be done. And now they're actually helping you further by not just suggesting a feature, but suggesting an implementation and a way it can be done based on knowledge they gain from being able to see the code. I think that's just an awesome thing. So really interesting. But next cloud, can you explain to people, Jason, why they shouldn't have their next cloud exposed and the latest CVE is another reason why, because it's like a... Yeah, I mean, basically anything open to the internet is open to public scrutiny. And no, I'm not just talking about somebody commenting on your color scheme and your CSS theme. They're gonna try to take it down because that's just what it is. And nobody's immune to this. We can install updates and that's always a good thing to do with there's updates or, excuse me, problems that there aren't updates for yet, which could always be used against you. It's just one of those things where it's like convenience and security are in direct opposition of each other. Yeah, and this is right from next cloud security advisory. They give it an 8.5 out of 10. So good news is it appears to be more of a denial of service, but it's not good to have people monkeying with your files because they deny you access to your files too. Whatever they do, they trigger this. It breaks things pretty bad. They're kind of being close to the vest about it, but this is the double-edged sort of open source. You're going to pull the update and so are the threat actors. And what they're gonna do is look at the differential. And it's actually not just open source. This is, you look at something like the Citrix bleed vulnerability. This happened there as well. That's completely closed source, but by people looking at the differential of what was changed, they can quickly go, oh, okay, I know how this works. And so once they have a patch out for things, then they get attacked faster than before the patch was out, depending if they were already, how much under attack they were. I will give a big shout out to Next Cloud for having a hacker one. It's amazing that they've got big enough to be able to pay out bug bounties. They care about security. I'm not at all throwing shade at the folks at Next Cloud. I think they do the best job. The big challenge is the home lab market is definitely guilty of this. If I go on show Dan, how many of you will I find? That's, and we know it can be fiddly when you update and you're afraid an update will break it. Maybe that last update you tried to do broke something. So you rolled back to that previous version. I get it happens all the time. And then you're like, I'll fix this later. And then unfortunately it's later. And now you're under pressure to fix this if you have it publicly exposed. Having a VPN doesn't excuse you for not fixing it, but it will buy you time because there's going to be some automated bot hammering away at these right now. There's probably already one being built because well, we have generative AI and now even the hackers, which we used to just call them script kitties. Do we call them AI script kitties now? I don't know, we need the new term, don't we? Yeah, the AI hackers, the people who go, I'm not sure how to code, but I can probably dump this into a couple large language models, tell it to reverse engineer it and come up with an exploit for it. Wow, yeah, and we need a new term. We need a new term. Cause they used to be script kitties cause they'd try to hang out or the people who really write the code and then just figure out once it got weaponized. But either way, you need to patch. That's a big piece of this. Yeah. Quick minor update though on the TrueNAS topic and then me and Jason are going to talk about notes. The TrueNAS, the latest version, I've done some reviews on it. That new DRAID feature or something I do want to actively test. And we would love some feedback. Actually, I should throw it up on the screen here as well. Please send us some feedback at the HomeLab show. Let us know what things you might want us to test because not just projects we talk about here. Me and Jay have access to a lot of things and we're always working on projects that come out on our YouTube channel. Sometimes it's a little bit trickier to bring it to a podcast form cause this is ultimately destined for the voice podcast form. But nonetheless, if there's different topics you want us to cover, we dove into security last time. And I think absolutely, you know, a big deal to or a big thing we want to do is make sure we bring this to you in the form that you're looking for. Anything that we can help and dive into as a topic. And sometimes they will spawn off into videos that we might make later. But all the TrueNAS testing is coming along because I'm getting some big systems because people do have lots of drives. And that's where DRAID comes in is not for people running five or six or seven drives but for people with 30 or 40 drives or 60 drives. So that's gonna be a topic I dive into. And I've seen someone in the comments saying ZFS replication with TrueNAS in one end and OMV on another. Ah, I don't think that's gonna be easy. There's a lot of challenges with replication when you want to send it somewhere else. So with TrueNAS, you can do ZFS replication using NETCAT, which what that means is it actually creates two raw sockets with NETCAT and sends a replication at, basically as fast as the machine possibly can. The other way, and the more common way if you do ZFS replication without TrueNAS and TrueNAS does support this, they want to do it over SSH. And is it the threading limit in SSH? Is that what people run into when you do file transfers over SSH? Where's the limitations there? I know there's a lot of them. I think one, I know the encryption layer is gonna slow things down too. But that's gonna cause CPU overhead. But I haven't run into any issues on my end with replication on SSH. But then again, I don't do that every day. It's a speed issue. It's less of an issue. It's more of a, like if you have, we have some machines with 10 gig connections and they will not saturate those connections with SSH. The processor gets 100%. I don't know if it's because of the encryption overhead of SSH, but if I choose the NETCAT option, oh, it transfers fine. Now right now I have a transfer going that's transferring it eight gigs a second. It will not do that with these processors if I do it over SSH. That's a reason they offer it. So there's not a, it makes it challenging. Now if you're doing it offsite, it's not as bad because usually your limitations not going, unless you have a 10 gig connection at home, your saturation problem usually is your bandwidth of the internet, your upload speed, not your SSH one. So yeah, that can be a little bit more challenging. But yeah, I will cover more of that offsite on there. It's just a little tricky to do it with TrueNAS. I wish they had better ways to do ZFS replication without another TrueNAS. The other option is they do have several cloud sync options like backblaze. All of that uses RClone on the back end or sometimes it uses RClone probably for all of that. I have to look, I know at least with that, please. Yeah, some of them may use whatever the cloud connector offers, like if the company has it because they've got quite a few cloud providers internet you can back up to. But yeah, doing it to another non TrueNAS system is maybe something I'll cover as a topic. I can actually set it up. I actually have none of my TrueNAS as replicating to that. Yeah, it'd be something to try. Yeah, something to try. I'm sure, you know, Wendell has a mix of systems. Maybe we'll have to ask him. Yeah, I'm sure he does. Yep. Now on to the other topic. One, Jay's in a new office. Tell us about that, Jay. You're getting closer. It's so much more set up than the last episode. Yeah, it's getting there. It's just a few adjustments. There's like, you know, audio issues like an echo and the microphone I have to get rid of and I'm down. My recording lights aren't set up properly. So it's happening slowly, but it's happening. And I suppose we're going to see it come to life. You know, as the show goes on, I still have footage recorded in the old studio. So you're still going to see like the old studio for at least three more videos that I have that are going to be queued up. And after that, hopefully I have everything here set up to, you know, coincide with that. So it's been a lot of work, it's been a lot of work. Yeah, it's just a lot of adjustments to make. It's one of those things when you build a studio, the iterative changes Jay made over years, it's there, as much as that knowledge stuck sticks with us, actually implementing them in a new space is challenging. Yep, it's like micromanaging each and every knob on the sound interface and the light temperature and how bright it's supposed to be, whether or not to have the overhead lights on or off or some kind of combination, if everything is plugged in the right way and man, there's just so many things. But it's for a really good reason, it's a much bigger studio. So I'll have a lot more room to do things and maybe even a place to have a lab to put things together without having to clear my desk off every time. So that's a big benefit. Yeah, I've seen someone in the chat say GPT kiddies. I don't think it has the same ring. I don't know. I will have to consult chat GPT to come up with a new name for script kiddies, because I can use it too. What about GP toddlers? GP toddlers. I think Jay's onto something here. There's something like that. A little bit more insulting than script kiddies, but that's not really insulting or anything, but it's just funny. Yeah, so GP toddlers, we can go with that one. You know, there's a side hustle that someone could come up with or a job because me, Jay, and this includes many of our YouTube friends, such as Jeff Kearling and Craft Computing and all those guys. One of the challenges is we have to be skilled at these homelab things or projects we do. At the same time, we have to have at least a, you know, our major might be technical things we're teaching you. Our minor is having to have our own knowledge base in video and sound engineering to be able to present these and editing. You know, we, yeah, if some, you know, me and Jay talked like, how do you find someone just to build, say, hey, just build me a studio for what I need to do? And I mean, there's commercial companies that do it, but you're talking about an outlandish amount of money, there's, but like YouTube Studio Builder Consultant is the job that someone probably can have. And because we would probably welcome someone coming in and saying, set it up. Gerald Undone has got some videos on that topic. I won't go too far off topic, but there's, I love watching the studio build videos because they help give me ideas because I have to figure this out to be able to present this. And it is a weird challenge that we face as content creators. Yeah, it is a weird, yeah. We have to learn all this stuff or pay someone else to do it. The only options you really have. So it's kind of, if you can learn it, may as well. I mean, just makes you more self-sufficient. I'll be hiring people eventually, you know, anyway, but in the meantime, I'm kind of enjoying the editing process. And I never thought I'd say that. You know, Ed, if you want to get better at speaking, you want to get better at doing, edit your own stuff. And you're like, oh, if you want to see how bad you are, play it back. Oh my gosh, oh my gosh. It forces us to speak better. It forces us to use less or have less disfluences. Yeah. Yep. It can be a challenge. Yep, the camera went black for a second there, speak about why it's a challenge. That's pretty funny. I think this will fix it, I hope. All right. Yeah, I see you. That's still pretty funny. Right on point, I guess. Yep. Oh, it's going to go do that one more time. All right. There we go. Dee, one of the computers turned off that's because I'm not, because I'm not recording. That's, see, we have problems already. So these, there's challenges. I watch my studio video to understand how crazy the setup is. All right, back to the final topic we want to cover on this DevRandom. And I left a link to a hysterical but informative video on open source note editing. This is a topic we've actually addressed and somehow this one didn't reach our radar and me and Jay are still mixed. I'm using it right now. It's called Q-Own Notes. And I think it's a neat project, but, but that's where you gotta always, there's always a but, right? That's where the but comes in. No one of these ones that we've tried. We've done Joplin, we've done Marktex, we've done, which were the other ones you tried, Jay? A simple note, Obsidian, and I know Zettler was one. I can't remember all of them, but try the number of these over. What has it been like a year? It feels like it. Yeah. I don't know if that quite has been one, but it's like every single one of them, you know, just has some kind of an issue that makes me not want to use it. So Joplin currently is my favorite. I like the interface the most, but there's just these nagging issues that seem to come and go. The other day I was writing a note and I'm kind of like not a very trusting person when it comes to software. So I wanted to make sure it was saved. I was probably one paragraph in or a couple of sentences in. So I didn't even do that much work. If I lost everything, big deal. It's just frustrating, but no big deal. It didn't save it. Like I clicked off of the note, but it wasn't in the, it didn't create it. It allowed me to type, but it wasn't on the file system in the database. There's no record of this note at all. And then I tried it again, same thing. It won't save a note. Like no notes would save. I close the app, I reopen it, everything's fine. And I can't reproduce the problem again. So, you know, that's just weird for a note taking app. And that's not the only issue that happened one time. There's always something that happens with Joplin and it drives me completely crazy. And I've had sync issues happen for no apparent reason. It's like Joplin feels like the best for what I want to do, but it feels like an alpha software at best. And there's just a number of other issues. Like one time, I think I mentioned on the podcast the issue about line breaks. You paste line breaks from some source. And I've tried, I've looked at every forum post that's on Google right now about this. And I have tried every single thing, doesn't fix it. The line breaks are gone. I could live with that. Because if I have to just paste and then redo line breaks, that's not the worst thing, although it's annoying. But then it gets to a point where line breaks I create from a freshly typed note are stripped from it. Or a rich text that's in the, when you paste, it's visible and you see it converted to headings. And the bold items are bold, just like it should be. Click off of it, go back, all the formatting is stripped from the note. And I just asked myself, how did this even make it out of beta? It's just my first opinion on that. And then I try obsidian. And honestly, it's really good. Like I'm not going to criticize it at all. Then it's not open source. I don't like that, but I've tried all the open source ones. I could probably go that direction, but I just don't like the interface as much as I do Joplin. So there's no functional reason to not like obsidian. It's just not for me personally. I like Joplin a lot better. I want something more along those lines. And then other ones you have will force markdown characters to be all over your page. If you just want to read something, you're not actually doing the markdown, that's a problem, or you have another app that'll insist on showing you the markdown version and the rendered version side by side. The interfaces are generally not that great. And worse, we look at one of them and it hasn't been maintained or hasn't seen any updates in a couple of years. So then it's like, should I trust this? So it seems like a simple issue when it comes to these notes and these note-taking apps, but it's not, it's like a simple task, but no one app does it perfectly in my opinion. I think that's the frustrating thing. And I'm torn on a few things. I seen someone mention Logsec, L-O-G-S-E-Q. I'm assuming that's how it's pronounced. I didn't look at the pronunciation of it. That one just had a weird way it handled things. One of the most promising ones is kind of like a notion alternative that's open source that I think shows the most promise, but they by self-admission are very beta. And I even found a bug that's been, I reported it as well. It's been around for three weeks where you have trouble in Ubuntu-based sister rows as a flat pack, not being able to change the location of the database. But app flowy is that other one. App flowy is really pretty. I really like it. But my problem with a lot of those is I like everything saved as markdown text files. So they save between all of my workstations. And that's one thing I really liked about QoNotes is I'm using one called MarkText and I'm using Zettler and I'm using QoNotes. It doesn't matter which one I open. Any one of those I open reads my note structure the same because it's all hierarchically done in folders. And that's one of the things I don't like as much about Joplin and some of the others is I keep saving things in databases. I don't want the data in a database and I want it in a plain text format. So matter of fact, sometimes when I have a bunch of notes, I just grab VIM if I'm SSH somewhere because my notes synchronized to even my jump box. And then I can go onto my jump box and just right in VIM open my notes file. And if I change my note file on my jump box, it's changed in all of my editors on all the workstations I log into immediately. And it's all plain text. There's never the chance of a database synchronization problem. I use sync thing because it's absolutely the most wonderful tool which I realized I've been using for almost eight years to synchronize all my files. And I need to do an updated video because it has some amazing features. They include permission synchronization, extended attribute synchronization as a new feature. They, well, they've had it for a little while but it's actually got its integration all the way into TrueNAS now where you can finally do, it's not, I would still say this is a little beta because it's only in the last few months it's been released but it'll do extended synchronization. That is awesome. But back to the topic at hand here, the note taking apps, I love things being in Markdown and that's the challenge like Jay mentioned. I like one I can write in Markdown or just write normally but it's creating Markdown on the backend. I don't care for the preview pane. That's my only complaint with the QO notes. You can't edit the preview pane. You can have it preview things but I can't actually edit there. So, yeah, and someone says you can use Gitomatic. Yeah, the cool things about QO notes. First, next cloud integration is built in. Awesome. If you want, you don't have to use it but it's an option. Second, browser integration is built in. I'm still trying to wrap my head around how all of it works but it's just got some neat features where you can create bookmark files and create research files and tie back and forth data to it. So I think that's cool. It also has some command line snippet integration. So I'm really doubling down on QO notes. I dedicate at least a few weeks of using it in my production environment to decide if I like it. And if I can't stand it for an hour then I usually just drop it but I'm now, I don't know, three or four days in using it and I tried some of the other ones and I didn't like the fact that they will import everything into their database but I don't want it all in a database that I can't access it from the command line is easy. Exactly, yep. Yeah, I seen someone said, what is that other one that's called MinWiki? There's a couple other ones that build wikis based on instead of a database driven wiki backend, it's like a text backend. There's one of them in there. That video I linked down below that is in the description here has a whole long list of all those things in it too which I thought was kind of cool. Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah, again, it seems like a simple problem but it's just kind of not. It's some of these apps and they come and go. I mean, you have the whole situation with Evernote and that debacle and then you have a lot of people looking for an alternative right now and some hit harder than others but some of them missed the mark altogether. It's just kind of interesting. I mean, at least when it comes to browsers we have like several really good ones that are very capable that do everything you want a browser to do but if we're in a note app of all things then that's a problem. Yeah, and part of the other challenge is some of our other developer friends, one of them lives, I think he's using Vim, is it called pathogen? What's all the plug-in structure for Vim, the popular one? Pathogen is the one I've used. Yeah, but that creates its own challenge and if you get into Vim, Neo Vim and all the different forks of the different package and script managing on there. It's amazing watching him live in that because that's also the development environment he uses is a very customized version of Vim. They're all connected to everything and it's awesome but for, if you don't live in Vim it gets a little bit harder to do. Then we have the Emacs crowd which is awesome which is also covered in that video link down below but the Emacs has its own challenge as well of also learning another environment, maintaining another environment that has a lot of complexities on there. I've seen someone suggested Trillium Notes. I have not tried that one. I'll just open a tab and check it out later. That's what I'm gonna do, is it open sources? Okay, yes. Ah, yes, I did try this one. I can't remember why I didn't like it. It did something I didn't like and I didn't keep, I should have kept notes and why I didn't like it. Yeah, just, I mean, I haven't tried it personally so maybe I will. So, me and Jay will do some more research on this but please, this is the perfect thing. What's your favorite note taping app? You can leave it in the comments. You can leave it to feedback at the homelabshow.com. We are deeply interested in, this is something that, okay, maybe it's not the most efficient use of our time to sit and obsess with it but really, we spend a lot of time taking notes. The way we build this, our collective YouTube channels and the way we manage our tech is we document the things we do, we have to keep notes, scripts, you know, one, this is minor but boy, this means a lot to me. When I put code snippets together inside of a notes app, I love when there's a copy button, a copy of the code snippet that I can paste or a series of commands. That's a feature that I fell in love with immediately with Qo Notes, I'll make, oh, there's a copy feature. So all my little code snippets, I can just click copy and paste them in, especially when there's some long string of commands to get something done, awesome. It also makes it easier when I copy and paste these because I can, and the reason I like Markdown is because I can portably copy the entirety of the Markdown and drop it in my forums and then share my notes with everyone else to how a project worked. These are, and I know once again, people also like when they can click copy and past, a copy and paste. The- Yeah, basically, yeah. I see people note plus plus plus. Is that open source? I don't know. I don't know off the top of my head. It's a really good one. It has a very big following that I don't remember, honestly. I probably have a couple of staff members using it. I think everybody in IT knows at least one person using it at this point. It's pretty popular, so. Yeah, that's the look of it. That's definitely one I've heard of is I know a lot of people use it. I can't remember. I don't know if it does a nice hierarchical tree. I found information organization and maybe if I get good where I'm proficient at it, one thing I'll say for the QoNotes program is there is, besides that video I have linked down below, there's not other videos on it. It's a pretty well-developed product. It's extensive amount of features. For, if you put this into YouTube as a search, you won't find much information on it. You'll pop up, in fact, if you want to find the video I linked down below, type QoNotes in YouTube. And I think that video is the first result. And it's also one of the only results. Everyone else is talking about, you know, I think Notion and some of those, but I'm just not big on these companies that want to surf up my data, stick all my stuff in their cloud, use it for their training models or whatever they do with it is not high on my list. Places I want to put my data. Yeah, matter of fact, here's another thing. Everyone try QoNotes because it is Windows, Mac and Linux compatible and send feedback to the Homelab show why you love it or why you hate it. Yeah, that's a good idea. Yeah, give that a shot. And we'll just kind of narrow it down and maybe you could find a community favorite. Yeah, we don't mind covering this again as a topic because me and Jay spent a non-zero amount of time last night, just our usual, we call it tech Tuesday talk that we do where we just BS about things. And what we said, we should bring this up on the Homelab show because we know we are not the only ones obsessed with this. This is creating comments and discussions in the stream right now and we want to bring the best tools to you and absolutely in documenting your Homelab is not the most pleasant part of it, but boy is it critical. Oh, it is. Oh, it absolutely is. Yep. All right, do you have anything else, Jay? I think that's all we eat. We had a short list today. Yeah, we had a shorter list today. As the studio comes together, I'll have a much longer list next time. So I don't want to spoil anything, but some pretty interesting topics for the show coming up. Yeah, and we have people we might be interviewing and some other fun things. So yeah, definitely we've covered some of these topics before, but we're gonna bring some guests on. We're trying to schedule everything between the holidays which can obviously be quite challenging. Yep, agreed. So, all right. Well, I have another live stream on my channel tomorrow. Thank you for listening to this podcast, but the actual live streams that I do where I do deep dives and Q and A will probably happen again both tomorrow and I want to do a live stream again on a weekend and maybe if Jay has time, he can come and join. Okay. Yeah, so, because you've been busy and I think you need a break and come over and hang out. Jay moved slightly closer to me. He's only about 40 minutes for me now. Yeah, if that. If that, probably even less. Yeah, probably. We'll do some of these in person. Oh yeah, 20, 30 minutes, it's something like that. Yep. All right. Oh, we do have confirmation. I see a few people have replied that Noteplad++ is open source per people in the comments. So, yeah, that's another one. I don't think it, I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it does have some hierarchical tree options that might make it a good choice. I don't know. We'll find out. We're gonna be researching this topic. I can tell you that. Oh yeah, I sure will. Well, thank you all for joining us and we'll talk to you next time. See you next time.