 Thank you and thanks for joining us for another episode a fry a episode of the nonprofit show Where our exclusive sponsor is the fundraising Academy our presenting sponsors of all of our episodes Thank you to Bloomerang the American nonprofit Academy fundraising Academy nonprofit nerd your part-time controller staffing boutique nonprofit thought leader and the nonprofit Atlas Julie and I are so Grateful to have your continued support of these conversations Julia thanks for joining me on this Friday CEO of the American nonprofit Academy I'm Jera Anselm your nonprofit nerd CEO of the Raven Group and if you've joined us before you know One day out of every week our Friday is dedicated to our ask-and-answer episode and again Thank you to fundraising Academy for being our exclusive sponsor of these fry a episodes because we have culminated Questions that have come in from you our viewers and listeners so that we can answer what's going on in your world and in your Organizations across the nation, so that's what we're here to do It's a lot of fun and I have to admit to you and I'm assuming you have the same thing I mean Obviously now moving into our third year. We haven't been out as much. I mean you and I have been on the hamster wheel of Events going out out out out out morning noon and night to support our communities And so we would get people to ask us questions. Just hey, what do you think? I mean, I think that's been part of how you and I have led our lives Chosen or not and so it's been interesting as things are opening up I'm getting more and more people to say hey Julia. What do you what about this or could you talk about this and So it's interesting because you can get to us You know through email through the websites that we have I mean there are a lot of ways social media We get questions that come in on Twitter, but it's it's fascinating Also, I think Jared to see how these questions have changed Let's get to it Jeffrey from Orlando, Florida We're navigating the rest of our events to a digital format Our question is whether or not to charge for attendance. This is interesting within our staff and board We have it about a 50-50 split on this issue. Can you shed some light on our options? Yeah, because we're not going back Great question. I Have seen this done both ways so it really depends on The goals of your organization and the goals of the specific event So if this is a fundraising event, I've also seen it done both ways, right? Like you might be familiar Jeffrey of the Benavon breakfast models in which that event in and of itself is designed to be a free event with an Ask it is a solicitation event. So there is an ask and So that's that's a great example now I've also seen some really big productions of what would typically be a Formal gala and how those have gone online to the digital format and those absolutely have a ticket price and There's also an ask a solicitation there But there is that expectation that you pay to have that Exclusivity access to the presentation so 50-50 split. I think we would really have to know better. What is the event? What is the purpose of the event? What is the audience of event? And do you intend to record it and stream it in the future, right? So would there essentially be free access after the event? That's something you want to think about You know, I've been seeing this where there's a like a VIP ticket and then Beverages or maybe dessert or a full meal is then delivered to the house I'm assuming house because most people will be watching these things from their home So, yeah, how do you navigate that personal sense of what's going on to? What you can communicate digitally, I guess and I agree with you to Jared I think it's really important to and I know this is not the benevolent model But I think it's important to say we there will be an ask and I don't know how you feel about that. I Love that. I'm always a fan of transparency Yeah, and when it comes to our advocates our board or committee members Inviting their guests. I like to say very clearly This is an opportunity for you to learn more about this organization and make a financial contribution of your choice I love and I love the way you phrase that That's good. Yeah, that's it. That's a lovely way to phrase that. I think hit the repeat everybody Repeat that because that's good. I like that. I like that. Okay. Well, let's hire TV Amazon TV all the places you can go back and watch that clip You are good you I'm impressed Okay, let's go to our next question It's coming to us from Roger in Carson City, Nevada As we look at expanding our marketing communications process might you have any ideas on the percentage of our annual budget? That we should plan for. Wow. Okay. Good question. We have not had a separate department for this department development has been taking care of all marketing communications Common but not. I don't think it's wise, but you tell me what you think, Julia. I'm going to pass pass this to you to answer first Well, you know, it's really interesting. We've been seeing this Jared On profit shown. I don't know if you've been seeing this with your practice, but more and more Organizations aligning marketing into their development or vice versa and saying there's going to be a senior leader that that leads over marketing communications and development. And and we've been seeing this with some pretty big organizations like the Dave Thomas Foundation for adoption very large organization. Um, and it was it's been riveting to see them work and to see how they do it and I I'm just fascinated by it, but I think that marketing and communications needs to be tied to the hip of development, but they should be their own shop. That's just me because of the way you you communicate and administrate this. Um, you know, I and this is my background, but I would advocate for at the low end, 6% of your annual budget moving closer to 10% and I know a lot of people will be like, Oh, what? But that's in this day and age, Jared. This is how you are building revenue. You're building and keeping and stewarding your donors is through marketing and communications. That's my take. Yeah, I don't have a specific answer like that 6 to 20 or 6 to 10. I think you said, but I think that's fascinating. And as we just had Julia Campbell on yesterday to talk about social media and our digital age, right? We're not just talking billboards or newsletters or advertisements. Um, you know, we're really talking some of these boost and promotional options on social media and a variety of platforms. So you can measure your KPIs or your key performance indicators based off of the amount of dollars you put into these different initiatives. So for instance, you know, Julia yesterday was talking about how you could track, you know, your social media platform to your website traffic or to your fundraising initiative. So Roger, I think what Julia Patrick has just shared that 6 to 10% is definitely worth, you know, adding into your budget. If you're not there yet, at least take it up a percent or another percent and start to build it but also start to track what the measurements of success are. I agree with you because, you know, that's going to be a heavy lift for some board members or other, you know, people within your organization to say what the heck, you're going to put that much money towards this. And so you're right, you have to defend what those choices have netted you. I mean, and that really is, I mean, if there's one thing, one clear message that we're hearing day in and day out, moving towards 500 shows is data, data measurement. I mean, this is a, this is where we are, and this will make us better decision makers. I don't think we do it enough. I don't think in our sector. One reason is we are so constantly busy that it kind of gets pushed aside. The other perhaps is that that's not our, you know, that's not in our wheelhouse. That's not what comes natural to us. But I do think that there is a great effort that needs to be made to do just that. Yeah. Well, and I don't think we're educated enough. You know, I think it's, it's one of those things that Lynn Ruby was on fascinating and said, you know, we can't make our decisions based on what is pretty. Yes, and we've done that for too long. Wow, this looks great. This brochure is beautiful. We must be successful. It must be a successful tool versus actually measuring what, what these actions have brought us. And I, for me, that just is like stuck in my brain because I think I've been on the pretty camp. You know, making this, I really have. I mean, when I'm honest about it, judgments about nonprofits. I mean, how often do you hear me say on this show, check out their website. It's just fabulous. It looks great. Right. You know, I mean, it's, it's kind of an interesting flip the switch in terms of how we think and mindset. So, okay, let's go to Sean is I never know if this is Sean or scene. It depends on the person. When asked Sean or scene. Sean been seen on the nonprofit show asking a question from Nashville, Tennessee. But okay, I have heard of interim CEOs. But have you ever heard of interim CFOs. This seems like there would be a limited number of people willing or able to serve in this capacity. You hit the sister because you know, I'm about to jump out of my chair. Yes, there are interim CFOs. There's interim CDO's chief development officers. And so Sean, this might be referred to as a fractional CFO. So when you hear of interim or fractional, it might be kind of one of one of the same. So yes, there are absolutely. And you can find a person to do this role, you could find a company to do this role. And I really look at this again, I went through third sector academies, interim CEO training, and it's a certification training for this interim space. But I do serve as an interim CEO, interim COO, I negated that one earlier so that exists as well. And I've also served as a chief development officer. I do not do the financial world. So I always parlay that over to my colleagues that do offer that I know several that do. And I wouldn't say that there's a limited number of people. I really think that it's probably more than you're aware. I don't think that it's been very talked about. I don't think it's been talked about a lot in our sector. And most people go from full time to full time hire, as opposed to, let's pump the brakes, let's find out what's working. Should we look at a system change or a strategy for our succession planning? That is a great time to engage in interim or a fractional professional. So if you were doing on the CFO side, would this be somebody who is almost doing an assessment of what the organization is doing and then helping to maybe write the job description? Or are they just a placeholder? Or are they both? A little bit of both. So when I can speak for my example, when I come in as a interim CEO, I am definitely doing an assessment first and foremost. So it's an organizational assessment. I'm providing professional recommendations because I'm coming in as a third party and outsider observing their process systems, bringing best practices and professional, you know, a higher professional level to take them from where they are to where they, you know, want to consider. And also doing some of the day to day work, a lot of the day to day work. So what I don't want to say, Sean, is that this person is not coming in as a babysitter or a placeholder. They are doing the work and they're bringing you a higher level of information because of that level of expertise and experience within other organizations. Fascinating that you used that phrase, they're not a babysitter, they're not a temporary thing. If you're going to make this investment, I love the strategic piece of it of looking at an organization because it isn't one of the key best practices and correct me if I'm wrong. I realize that this person who's ever going to be the interim is not supposed to put their hat in the ring for that job or be considered going forward. They're truly supposed to be an independent. That's right. Yes. So if you're pulling in, you know, an outside professional, so this is a professional career. And oftentimes Julia, someone internally is like tapped on the shoulder to say, Hey, our CFO just left. Would you be willing to, you know, take on these additional responsibilities? So that's a little different. But I do like to bring in a professional interim for that strategic succession and that high level observation and recommendations and they don't want to stay. This really should be, you know, temporary six to nine months is essentially what I think. Okay, that was my next question is like, what's the time frame. Six to nine, maybe 12. Okay. Well, you know, that good job, good question because I think we're with the great resignation or, you know, all of these changes. These are things that we need to be thinking about. Okay, name withheld, you know how I feel about that from Austin, Texas. Keep Austin weird isn't that there. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, yeah, we have determined that our nonprofit needs an official board liaison. Oh, man. I've never written this question myself. It seems the natural position is the admin to the CEO. However, our current admin does not want to do this job. Can you help us navigate this fire your admin. No, I'm just kidding. You know me to the power. Yeah. Why, why doesn't the admin want to do this number one would be the question I would ask and do they really understand what the board liaison work entails. Venture to say they're already doing the board liaison work without the, maybe the structure or the title, you know, or understanding this, a lot of what we're seeing the board liaison work has moved into the digital side of management. You would board portal so I mean, this, this is a big question name was held. I love your answer. I would ask why they want to do this board liaison role. And if it's a challenge of too much work, is there a way to systemize it, like an online board portal to alleviate the busy admin work and really help to provide tools for success. So I think it might be an education opportunity. And if you don't currently have these systems. What might you consider name withheld to build this board liaison responsibility in a win win capacity for everyone. You know, and the board liaison is going to be a stand it should be. It's not but it's going to be a standard practice for our nonprofits. And I think that we're going to start to see more and more of the transparency issues, the management, all of the reporting issues that that nonprofits are required throughout not only their funding relationships, their donor relationships, but the government the IRS, and these things are going to fall on the shoulders of the board liaison and maybe that's part of that fear. But if you're using a strong board portal system, all of that reporting and all of those things that you need to be doing will be identified and managed for you I think in a much easier way. As nonprofits grow in this nation, there's going to be more and more reckoning when it comes to what they're reporting and what they're required to report on these things are changing. So question Julia, there's a governance committee. Is that something that the board liaison works in tangent with the governance committee. Like is that something that could help to provide support. So funny. I mean, as is I talked to so many different groups that have governance committees, and there are no two governance committees alike. Everybody seems to get tripped up on what that means. Sometimes it's it boils down to the efficiency of how a meeting is run, and what the procedures are, and sometimes it is the organization organizational part of that group that is dealing with some of these issues. And the key here is, I think it really depends Jarrett on where the nonprofit lays. Are they fully philanthropic, or are they a contracting kind of agency. Are they taking government contracts. Are they taking partnership grants. You know, do they have some of these things that navigate them into more of a reporting agency and that's where governance can help come in, because it's not just how the board is operating. It's not just how the board is overseeing as a fiduciary to some of these contracts and things of this nature. As you navigate through a board structure that's, you know, really passing that $10 million mark. This becomes a bigger issue and especially if you are an organization that's working with government contracts. It's a big deal. I mean it's a it's a big deal. And this can be from federal municipal down to the municipal side. But yeah, this this is something that they have to look at and that puts that board liaison. I can understand and somewhat of a precarious manner because when things need to be reported out. Sometimes we'll have to go through that board liaison to get the language that was voted on, or to get the attendance of who voted on what I mean to see what I'm saying. Yeah, it's an important thing and it's not to be taken lightly. I believe that one of the cool mindsets to have is that no matter the size of your nonprofit, take that board liaison role and get it perfected. Right. Navigate it through so that as your organization grows, you're more capable, if you will, have navigating that so. Okay, I got it like calm down get off my soapbox because you know that gets my blood pressure up and that's saying a lot because I have low blood pressure. Okay, let's go to Linda and Casper Wyoming. Is it appropriate or inappropriate to have a potential board meet member attend a meeting in advance of their nomination. I'm recruiting new board members for our nonprofit, but it seems I'm getting some pushback on this idea. That's an interesting question. We've never had anything like that. Great question. I'm curious why there's pushback of the majority of board meetings are public to anyone. I have seen a wonderful recruitment tool in particular before someone is nominated to serve on the board so that the nominee could see and witness how a board meeting runs and the board members could see how the nominee fits into their current environment. So Linda, I'm on the believe that I think this is a great opportunity and I'm would love to know why there's there's pushback but Julia, what have you seen. Absolutely believe this we need to be for exactly what you said to see somebody come into the group and say look, I can see myself here. I can participate or no I can't and get that done before you go any further. The other piece of it is that you can always take a moment in that board meeting and and and make it a private, you know, pull out. Now this has to do with contracting with HIPAA with things that might be legally precarious for those types of organizations, but you are right this is a public environment. And so you need to understand where those where those lines get crossed where you might not feel comfortable with that if there's pushback another way that they could do it. Many board meetings will start with like, I say they start but they begin with like a pre time and it's quote unquote social time but it might be committee meetings it might be a pizza dinner. It might be, you know, touch base kind of thing and then the minutes, click in at a certain time, you could always have that perspective board member come during that more social or more informal time. But yeah, I can't stand it when for either side when a board member just shows up. Okay, you're elected in, and they've never met anyone or I mean are seeing how we're the even the room where they're going to meet. That's a good choice. You fired me up today sister. Good question Linda. Oh my god Linda report back to us on how that goes. Wow, you know what, Jared, this has been a great week. I've learned so much with our guests that we've had on it has been great. I got two days where I was able just to watch you. That was really fun. We needed to sleep in. Really, I had meetings. I know I had meetings I would have liked to have slept in, because you know that's kind of my jam but no I was like out and about meeting and so thank you for taking over them. We had a great lineup this week we have a great lineup next week. We are in fact booked through March and looking to bring on, you know, again, just a lot of diverse individuals, topics, talent, so I'm excited to see and to show the next lineup. So we've got we've got a lot going on Sunday we send out a reminder of the week's lineup so make sure that you take a look at that in your inbox. Yeah, it's going to be a really fun Monday is going to be really interesting because we have Broward two on one coming on, and I believe you have been a judge for one of their award events and so it's going to be really interesting to hear a little bit about that and how that all works. The nonprofit connection to the two on one system in this country is astonishing. It's growing. It works really well in some communities and it's just starting to really get underway and others so I think it's going to be a really interesting program for all of us across the sector. Okay, we want to make sure that we think all of our presenting sponsors without you we would not be here, especially our presenting sponsor fundraising Academy, who underwrites this amazing episode weekend and week out, and they will actually answer a lot of questions and even provide some of their experts to sit in on these episodes so that's just been a wonderful thing and we are super appreciative for them to join us day in and day out. Thank you my friend. I hope you have a great, great, great weekend. Thank you. I will and hope that all of you do as well. Join us back on Monday or Monday. It's going to be a lovely day Valentine's Day and yes we do have a great lineup for the week but until then stay well so you can do well have a wonderful weekend and we'll see you on Monday.