 I will welcome, once again, hello to all of you. I will start with the housekeeping rules, so unless you are a speaker, kindly keep your microphone on mute and your video off. Discussions will be given eight minutes for the interventions. During the discussions, kindly either put your question in the chat box or raise your hand for the moderator to see you. The session is being recorded and will be made available on the GPC website in a few days. So now I give the floor to Bruno, Bruno please. Hello, can you hear me and see me? Yes, I can hear you and see you. Thank you so much. So given you did not present yourself, Daniel was actually connecting from Geneva and few words in the UNMAS office in Geneva and supports the MAUR. So welcome to all. This is a fantastic event part of the Global Protection Clusters annual forum. It's so good. I'm seeing so many people are connecting still from many countries and we are happy that you are joining us in this special event hosted by the Man Action Area of Responsibility. I think several of you know that the GPC, the Global Protection Cluster, convenes an annual forum every year. However, this year due to COVID-19 related issues, they have organized a global forum hosted by the GPC Strategic Advisory Group, Child Protection, Gender-Based Violence, Housing, Land and Property, and Man Action AORs. So this is a unique series of events that brings together partners, service providers, academics, and donors. As you see, we have adapted this series of events to be 100% online, and hopefully there won't be any glitches today. The specifics of today's event is meant for the Man Action Area of Responsibility globally, and it's what is a thematic event, and I'm so happy to see so many in-country coordinators, MAOR members. I can see some are still signing in and other partners. I think we have hundreds who signed up, but the time is limited, and I'm so happy to have you all around. As we go forward, the theme today is really to gather concrete feedback on any guidance requirements that you may have around the AOR, whether at the global level, and speak on behalf of where you are, you operate. We've organized this event in such a way that it is with a broad spectrum and with different perspectives. So that's why we are also having some or not AOR members participating in the event. It's an event, the way we'll do it, we'll have three series of speakers, and then we will stop for a discussion, take a small break after which we will have a second round of discussion, and the goal really is to move forward on the AOR and have concrete feedback. And this we thanks to William Chamele, who also gave us some guidance. Some of you who know William, he's the head of the Global Protection Cluster. Under his ages, we are doing this to see how we can move forward the issue of strategic advice and coordination. So without further ado, the first part is meant to be the added value of the Mine Action AOR. The first speaker, whom I'm very pleased to introduce, is now connecting from the Congo, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, and she's the program manager for UNMAS there. But until a few months ago, she was also in Iraq as the MA AOR coordinator, and this is Fadwa Ben-Barek. Fadwa, the floor is yours. Thank you so much. Great, thank you very much Bruno for this introduction. I hope everyone can hear me and see me well. Let me know if you don't. All good? All good. Okay, great. Awesome. So I think Daniela, you're next slide please. First of all, actually before starting, I would like to just preface my presentation with the following. So I've been in a few other countries managing or coordinating the MA AOR and also at the HCT. Now, I will use everything in my presentation will be drawing from my experiences from all these different countries. But first let's start. DRC slides. Keep going to DRC after her name. Yes, so this is, it's working I think at this time. No, you have to go to her presentation. Okay, so my presentation is short. Okay, good. So to start. So in terms of the role of the Action A1 is really in humanitarian crisis. Mine action is coordinated by the MA AOR within the protection cluster in 2020 right now there's about 16 different countries where there is a MA AOR. These coordinate the contribution of the mine action sector to the humanitarian response plan that you're most familiar with. Really the objective of the MA AOR in a nutshell and my point of view is to ensure that there's predictable accountable and effective mine action responses for the people that are at need. And this is what we have been doing. I believe in for the last few years since the MA AORs exist, but particularly in the 16 countries that we are in right now. If we could move to the next slide, Daniela. Just to talk briefly about the DRC as you could see in the DRC, the people in need are mainly in the east of the country. It's not only the most population that is at most in need, but it also coincides in the areas where the conflict is still ongoing and where the most contamination of explosive ordinance is prevalent. So there is an overlap of the needs and the mine action activities and needs as well in that country. To move to the next slide please. Because I'm right now working with the DRC just to give you a quick overview of what's going on in the DRC. So something quite unusual actually is that in the DRC we have handed over the coordination, the official coordination of the humanitarian mine action activities to the CCLAM who is the national authority on mine action. And the CCLAM who is a national NGO is the co-lead of the MA AOR at the national and regional level. We as the MA AOR lead are still present of course, but we're giving more and more spaces to the national NGOs, but the national authority to conduct the coordination of humanitarian response. Next slide please. Just a bit of an overview of what's going on in terms of the HRP 2020. I have to say that because of COVID not a lot of funding is allocated right now to activities that are not overlapping with the COVID-19 response in the DRC therefore at the moment there's no funding allocated to mine action. But you have there the amount that was received all by national NGOs actually in the previous HRP. Next slide please. So something that I really wanted to touch upon today really to effectively and eventually to efficiently serve the most ethnic population, the MA AOR does a coordination and conduct independent needs assessment. And this is very important because often the national authority not in all cases, but it's perceived that the government is conflicted with the party therefore could not be independent in the needs assessment in terms of mine action. But also I have to say that sometimes countries even national authorities have not only humanitarian considerations to take into consideration when prioritizing mine action activities, but also let's say economic, development, social needs. There are sometimes overlapping with the humanitarian needs, but sometimes they are not. The coordination platform that is MA AOR is also necessary because it allows us as a humanitarian mine action community to efficiently distribute our resources and capacity based on the geography of the country and at the substantive level. Different members of the mine action may have different specialties and have sometimes bases in different parts of different countries. Let's say one country in different parts of that same country and it really allows the members to discuss and to prioritize where they will be working based on the availability of other members presence in other parts of the country. But also the platform is very necessary for us as mine action to collaborate with other humanitarian sector. And that I find in my experience mainly when it comes to HLP but child protection as well that something that was quite prevalent in Afghanistan, in my time and in Iraq as well. It's very important especially when it comes to housing land property and how mine action activities may affect the access to the rights of the beneficiaries in the HLP framework. So this is something that without the mine action AOR we would not be able to collaborate with those other sectors to make sure that we best serve the populations. It's a space also to exchange the best practices as practitioners of mine action but something very important I would say that information management advocacy reporting becomes a bit centralized within let's say the MAOR that is performed usually by in the case of Iraq, IAM is being handled by IMAP that was the entity to be taken care of the IAM of the mine action AOR and it allows the members to focus on the work they need to do while the MAOR having one concerted approach in information management advocacy. Next slide please. And something that I really wanted to discuss with you today is overlooked in terms of the contribution of the mine action AOR as well as globally as well but it allows us to be as a group of your mentor and mine action actors to have a concerted and independent unified advocacy whether it's towards the government where we are using the the humanitarian cluster system and the leadership to advocate for access and mainly to make sure that the needs of the population that is at risk is met but it gives us also the opportunity to enable the representation of national NGOs without backing of the rest of the cluster system and also its colleagues from the international humanitarian mine action organizations would not be able to have a voice that would be heard if it was diluted on their own but one thing definitely that I would like to say is that in definitely in Afghanistan and here in the DRC as well the mine action AOR was a key enabler to enable funding for the mine action national NGO sector as opposed to you know, only international and we know that this is often the case if you all had submitted a proposal to serve for the HRP it feels like you need a master's degree from Oxford to be able to submit them but beyond that to be able and some good practice that I've witnessed in Afghanistan to have the mine action AOR coordinator and co-coordinator to help the national NGO review their proposals really enable them to to be able to access funding sometimes it's just a question of language or understanding how the law firms need to be presented so this is something that is very important and of course in terms of legal advocacy legal equipment back to the advocacy also that is being used either through the MAOR but often using those mechanisms all the way up to the HC to ensure that the humanitarian mine action NGOs are able to respond next slide please and I think most of you that have been working in some contexts you would recognize these there's common challenges that are real but sometimes they're just perceived to be challenges but just putting them out there as I said funding mechanisms are heavily bureaucratic it's very difficult for national NGOs to access that without the support sometimes of the coordinators often of language and other things there is a perception that there's competition between members to a certain degree this is the case in all humanitarian system where everyone is hoping to serve the population and hoping to be the one serving the population so of course there's competition but I think it just enables us also with certain coordination where we are each of the members are working geographically or based on their comparative and actively gives substantially enable us to give the best services to the populations we're serving there is of course sometimes difficulties in terms of reporting any mine action AOR person coordinator would probably know that activity info is very difficult to get information on time and it's often an extra burden for the members to make sure that to report also in all these systems but it's a challenge I think it's something that the culture community needs to think about on how to make sure that this is done mathematically in a useful manner but one national authority challenges the need for having a humanitarian mine action sector coordinated by MAOR and it puts often unless that is the lead on the MAOR in a very uncomfortable situation the national authority cannot make the difference between the humanitarian mine action and it could become very challenging geographically as well and next slide so one thing that I really and this is really based on my independent observation and right now I'm sitting in a position where I'm not managing any MAOR but I had the opportunity to really think about it and reflect in this last seven years of my experience I think I will go back to the early slides the intro slides we can hear you because Daniela is not muted so just to finish up to wrap up the grand bargain that you're most likely very familiar with I think we really need to walk the talk really when it comes to nationalization and localization and when I say nationalization there is still this day in my opinion not enough coordinators that are of the countries that we are serving in in Iraq we have very successful example I'm not sure if she is that is she's Iraqi and she's an Iraqi coordinator and this has been quite successful endeavor and I think as humanitarian community we need to be more open-minded in nationalizing as much as possible these positions but also the co-coordination roles as well in a way for it also continuing to support funding and to be concluded is very important in my opinion in the end of the day this is our country and once the emergency response is over they will be the ones staying there and it's I see also the MAOR an enabler to build or let's say enhance the capacity of these humanitarian mine action NGOs so the national authorities to effectively manage the humanitarian mine action needs and this is it for me I'm sure there will be questions later I'll be really happy to discuss further as well thank you so much Fadoir excellent presentation points that you raise and we will come back at the end of the first session to have discussions going on and I really want to thank you for being so candid and with your wealth of experience this is so good for this community I think I would backtrack a little bit I'm getting all kinds of messages for this meeting and if I may ask folks to mute their mics if they are not speaking check your mic mute them we still hear some sound while this is meant for MAOR audiences and you know what you're doing we have several guests who are here Daniela I don't know while I was speaking in the intro whether there were some slides we show three slides of context so doing a little bit of backtracking stop right there just for those who are not familiar while most of you connected are specialists so those who are not used to it we are now in my introduction talking about the Global Protection Cluster so this is a quick snapshot of the humanitarian cluster system and you see all the different clusters and to the right I think it's to the right on your screen you will see protection within which we have the Mind Action AOR so just to give you context I think a next slide I'm not sure what it is is to show you who are the MAOR members at the global level and I apologize I take full responsibility if I forgot any logo or naming your organization this is a gist of those who are around with us with my eyes I don't know whether I see H.I. who was the co-coordinator yes it is there H.I. was the co-coordinator at the global level and soon we will hear of the speaker from DDG will be the incoming coordinator and the last slide in terms of context for those who don't know is just a map to show you the current footprint of the MAOR where we are I'm not going to comment on your map so that's just to give you context and thank you so much Fadoa now we will move to another continent even the Fadoa spoke of Iraq and Congo we will have now a short introduction by our colleague who are in Colombia and then shortly after the polling will briefly give you the context in Colombia and then we will have the pleasure to introduce the second discussant who is excuse the pronunciation Miss Catherine Guarin Franco who is the project director at the Centro Integral of the Rehabilitation Colombia foundation Syrac since 2016 she has some 11 years of experience in managerial positions with Colombia's public administration overseeing the design and implementation of projects with biopsychosocial approach benefiting vulnerable populations just before Pauline who will be speaking in English will give a short intro after which she might she will do some interpretation so bear with us from Spanish to English Pauline the floor is yours she can put your camera on as well thank you so just to give you my name is Elin Boyer I'm an officer at UNMAS Colombia and I'm just going to give you a very brief introduction on the MAER in Colombia so our main initiatives in Colombia are about coordination mainly through training of the member organizations on a number of topics and also sharing best practices during each MAER session which are held monthly then we have strong work on or we try to have strong work on advocacy so for instance there was an exercise to identify with the different members gaps in victim assistance response and then plan how each member could help supporting the response with their own expertise and their different areas of activities then for instance we have currently joined work with the office of the inspector general because this office has identified also weaknesses in the mine action response in Colombia and has requested the support of the MAER in order to strengthen this response so currently there is a joint initiative to train local authorities so that they know their responsibilities better respecting victim assistance and then they can perform their work more effectively and obviously we also work to have a stronger inclusion of the mine action sector into the human entire planning cycle inclusion of mine action in the HNO and the HRP then we have quite a lot of work on information management as well so for instance we developed a security dashboard so that every organization, every management organization can register if they had a security incident and that it can feed into the analysis of the mine action in general and every organization can better plan their operations depending on the security context and what has happened to other organizations working in the same area and then we have minimum geographical information in the same events per year we try to have even more so this serves as information management training for all organizations in the sector including the mine action authority so that's a very brief overview of what the mine action area does in Colombia as for the HRP in 2020 121,000 people however as you can see the delivery has been quite low so far obviously because of the Covid mainly which has obliged to stop activities we had a six month lockdown in Colombia which was very very long and even if humanitarian organizations were allowed to work it was still very difficult for instance to hold risk litigation sessions it was not possible so this is why the number is very low also there is possibly underreporting from the organizations and obviously not all the response has been funded just a small part so that's also why the delivery is still quite low and hopefully it will improve in the next months now I will just give the floor to Catherine I'm going to translate from Spanish to English none of them is my native language so please bear with me Hola, muy buenos días para todos Mi nombre es Catherine Guanifranco Soy la directora de proyectos del Centro Integral de Rehabilitación de Colombia Bueno, quiero contarles rápidamente quiénes somos Pauline, tú me vas avisando por favor cuando cuando listo Nosotros el Centro Integral de Rehabilitación de Colombia somos una fundación colombiana sin ánimo de lucro llevamos 44 años de experiencia en la rehabilitación de personas con discapacidad la atención psicológica de personas víctimas de conflicto y población vulnerable So Cirec is a Colombian foundation an NGO with 44 years of experience in rehabilitation integral comprehensive rehabilitation of people with disabilities and victims of conflict Trabajamos a través de cuatro unidades missionales la unidad de salud que se encarga de hacer los procesos de rehabilitación un poco la imagen que están viendo ahí la unidad de sanando vidas entendemos un acompañamiento psicosocial a las familias de las personas con discapacidad que se encarga de hacer los procesos de realiciliencia e inclusión social la unidad de emergencia donde hacemos procesos de inclusión laboral moment So we have four units within Cirec the health unit then we have the healing lives units where we have psychosocial support for victims and their families Además de eso está la unidad de de proyectos especiales y la unidad que tengo la oportunidad de liberar con un equipo en donde hacemos el acompañamiento en territorio que ya les vamos a contar por favor la siguiente and then we have the special project unit which we are going to talk a little bit more right now a lot Siguiente por favor Next please Desde la unidad de proyectos especiales tenemos el programa de educación en el riesgo de minas antipersonal en donde contamos con una profesional Diana Vasquez que está acompañándonos en este encuentro quien junto con el equipo lideramos el trabajo en las comunidades para la provinción y adopción de comportamiento seguros en zonas contaminadas por minas antipersonal So within the special projects we have an explosive ordinance risk mitigation unit and we work with communities for them to adapt safer behaviors and this is led by Diana Vasquez who is joining us today in this webinar El objetivo de esta área es fortalecer la competencia de autocuidado y la gestión de riesgo comunitario gracias a este programa logramos iniciar nuestra participación en el subgroupo So this is based on a self protection approach we strengthen communities for them to be able to protect themselves and thanks to this work we started working and we joined the main action area of responsibility Next please Bueno quiero contarles un poco como iniciamos el trabajo en el subgroupo en el 2018 tuvimos la oportunidad de participar en una subvención con UNMAS y gracias a este primer trabajo nos invitaron a formar parte de las reuniones periódicas que adelanta el subgroupo aquí en Colombia So in 2018 we benefited from a grant from UNMAS and through this UNMAS invited us to participate in the MA era meetings Las cifras en Colombia hoy en día de acuerdo al último reporte que nos da la oficina del Alto Comisionado para la Paz pues son bastante altas estamos aproximadamente en 1919 víctimas por minas antipersonales Today in Colombia according to the national authority we have 11,919 victims well casualties recorded since 1990 por esta razón digamos que en el 2019 y a través del Fondo de Emergencias que responde a mecanismos de coordinación Fondo de Emergencias del Subgroupo abrieron la convocatoria para participar con recursos del CERF y dar respuesta de acuerdo a los mecanismos de coordinación por un proyecto que pudiéramos ejercer educación en el riesgo de minas y la atención integral a víctimas en 10 municipios del Chocó un departamento de Colombia que se encuentra bastante afectado por diferentes circunstancias frente a la presidencia de minas antipersonales In 2019 there was CERF emergency funding available and the main action area of responsibility coordinated the allocation of the funds and through the MAOR CERF was able to apply for these funds and then received a grant to work in the Chocó departments Chocó se encuentra en el Pacífico Colombiano y el proyecto consistió en la implementación de dos componentes entonces inicialmente quiero contarles como empezamos a ejercer este trabajo en territorio para luego ir conectando cuáles da importancia nuestra participación en el grupo Chocó is one of the first departments of Colombia I'm sorry, I'm not translating, I'm just adding this it's on the pacific coast and the project was implemented with two components in mind entonces en el primer componente que consistió en la asistencia antigralla víctimas hicimos una primera atención en crisis gracias a los recursos de la CERF logramos dar una respuesta de atención y de ayuda humanitaria si viene en nuestro país la ruta determina que son las entidades nacionales el gobierno, las alcaldías quienes deben dar esta respuesta pues por la situación en la que se encuentra el Chocó a veces esas respuestas no son tan tan fáciles de dar el proyecto nos permitió a nosotros con estos recursos poder hacer un compromiso So the first component was about victim assistance in crisis, so emergency victim assistance to new casualties basically and their families so CERF was able through the CERF funding to provide basic humanitarian aid to the families because Chocó is a very isolated department and always received the support or the financial help to receive therefore CERF was able to provide support So the first picture is a meeting between what we call historical victims people who had their accidents maybe a long time ago but did not have any support so there was CERF organized psychosis and the first picture was a meeting between what we call historical victims people who had their accidents CERF organized psychosocial support for these old victims So the second picture is about a meeting between new victims who had their accidents CERF organized psychosocial support for victims who had their accidents CERF organized psychosocial support for victims who had their accidents So the second picture is about a meeting between new casualties who suffered the accidents recently and historical victims who were able to provide peer-to-peer psychosocial support and also their families were supported as well in learning about safe behaviors Do you listen to Catherine? Do you listen to Claire? Me? No I'm not I'm not Well On the top right we want to tell you it was incredible how one of the people who was a victim of an antipersonal in his family we managed to make an accompaniment this doesn't happen very often this exercise of doing this accompaniment both to the victim and to the family allows to generate safe accompaniment processes and so all the people we started doing the exercise were the first time they had the accompaniment of an organization and they were grateful and even taking into account what they said at the beginning that this is a department sorry, it's a department with high effect So on the top right picture we can see we supported a family not only the casualty but also the family and they mentioned that it was the first time that they received this kind of support So that's Nes, please Well, and the second component of the project allowed us to do education workshops at the risk of mines in several of the municipalities as well as in municipalities where they had never done accompaniment thanks to the resources of the CERF to be present the images show that we want to share with you the situation of our country geographically and more because we are citizens the territorial team with which we work was established within the municipalities to achieve this accompaniment and this approach with the community we managed to reach to do workshops in indigenous communities who had never had so our second component was risk education and our team stayed with the communities to be able to deliver risk education in the communities and we also worked with indigenous communities who usually don't get risk education because they are very isolated but this approach had always been an organizational work of institutions together with the team and thanks to these learnings we were able to translate this approach of the community which allowed us to reach the territory to empower women who had never had the possibility of participation and leadership that through the management of community risk could become to take that leadership role and add to that to generate power of community organization we also used the gender approach based on the community so we tried to translate the institutional gender approach to the community level and we did women empowerment work um um sorry I'm lost women in these communities had never had the opportunity to lead community risk management processes so we did this territorial mapping to to make women at the center of this community risk management women female youngborn Quechua African mother and uh the And we also learned from good practices of other organizations through the Main Action Area of Responsibility. So for instance, with work with children, we learned that it was necessary not only to deliver safety messages but also make them participate. For instance, in painting t-shirts with safety messages and these kind of pedagogical approaches. So, what is the added value of being able to participate in the group of the Main Action Area of Responsibility? First of all, that this space of socialization allowed us to raise our hands to present a project that, with the help of the CERF, we were judged and to be able to reach a territory like Chocó, where no one had ever reached. So, for us, the benefits of participating in the Main Action Area of Responsibility was first to be able to submit a proposal and be granted past of the CERF funding. And also to get to Chocó, which is a very remote area of Colombia. Second, to be able to identify, in the course of the project's execution, thanks to the periodic participation in its group, the territorial reality of the Main Action Area of Responsibility, to be able to know about the first-hand, issues of security, of affection, both individual and territorial. And that allowed us to measure what was the way or what was the next step to be able to be in the territories with full security and with the total support of its group. And through our participation in the MAOR, we also learned about the context of Chocó and how we could best work there, how we could best access communities there. And we are also able to learn about the best practices and lessons learned from other organizations of the sector. So we think that could be more linkages, more coordination with national authorities. And we are also looking forward to more organizations participating in the MAOR and being able to share best practices so that we can all learn from that experience. And what we expect from the MAOR is also sharing guidelines and international standards and how to implement them and also keep sharing information on available funding for member organizations. Thank you very much for inviting us to participate in this event and for being able to share with you our experience as a local NGO in Colombia. And feel free to contact Catherine on this email address. Thank you so much to both of you and in particular Catherine for your very good presentation. As you see, you know, we meet regularly amongst MAOR but mostly with the in-country coordinators. But for this consultation and requirements, if we thought important to get a broad spectrum of views, including from local NGOs, which is also the heart at some point, I would say, in some of the places that there are needs in terms of mine action, whether it is implementation and coordination. Thank you so much. And now we switch to the third person to be on this first part. We are honored to have Mr. Wolfgang Binseil, who is currently the chair of the Mine Action Support Group, I believe since January of this year, and he's the head of the Division for Humanitarian Assistance, Regional Policy and Operation, including Humanitarian Mine Action at the German Federal Foreign Office. Mr. Binseil comes with also a wealth of experience. I believe right before he was Minister Townsend at the German Embassy in Kiev and then used to work in Moscow. He was posted in Cairo and much more. Mr. Binseil, the floor is yours. Thank you so much. For you online, we do not hear you. Okay, can you hear me now? We hear you, but we don't see you. You don't see me. Now we see you. Everything is perfect. Oh, very good. We see you and we hear you. The floor is yours. Thank you so much and welcome. Thank you very much Bruno and thank you for inviting me to this conference, which is an honor in my function of the Mine Action Support Group chair. I'm very happy to have the opportunity to contribute to this discussion from a donor's perspective, of course. Speaking about donor's perspective, perhaps we could see the first slide. I have two slides, so don't be afraid. This is the map of the members of the Mine Action Support Group. We are about 30 donor countries funding different contexts in mine action all over the world, which you can see here. The second slide shows the perspective from the affected countries. We can see this here now. This is a little bit similar to this map that you have distributed in the group. It has some countries that are not listed on your map because we have from donors in some affected countries, which do not have an HRP yet or do not include mine action into the HRP at this moment. Now speaking about HRP, we believe that including mine action into the HRP is something we very much welcome because HRP is the place where mine action does belong to. It gives a humanitarian context to mine action and it allows for an assessment of the specific needs in mine action and it puts these needs close to the needs from other sectors. So it allows for an overview of the different humanitarian needs. With this, it also contributes to the practical realisation of the nexus concept actually. So mine action linking the security issues or security threats to the population to the humanitarian questions and also to development issues. I will come back to that in a moment. Including mine action into the HRP also opens for new sources of funding in the mine action. It draws the attention of donors to the threats from antipersonnel mines and it includes also mine action and it allows for funding by the pooled funds such as the Central Emergency Relief Fund, the SERV and also the country-based pooled funds. For donors, it provides more information from the ground from an independent source, such as the United Nations of course and new instruments for taking action in the mine sector. So it eases our tasks as donors and it allows us to concentrate actually on more strategic questions on priorities like where do we want to contribute with our funding or what activities do we want to fund or which vulnerable groups do we want to support. VPF facilitates localisation in mine action and that is of course one of the central goals in the Grand Bargain as you know and which this has been mentioned also by Fatua from UNMAS. And mentioned for the host countries, the provision of an institutionalised mine action structure will create or we hope that this will create an incentive for additional efforts. So it contributes to ownership in the mine action sector. Now how can the area be strengthened? We see a co-ordinating role of the AOR on different levels, of course from the donor perspective. On the global level, it might facilitate the synchronisation of strategies and to indicate the direction of the most urgent needs, the trends in threats or even technological trends. Then on the regional level, the AOR may contribute to the consistency of approaches to mine action in neighbouring contexts. This might play for example a role when you have mine fields close to the borderline on both sides of the borderline and then to co-ordinate the approaches to demining in two countries, in neighbouring countries this might be useful to have the AOR for this. But the most important level probably would be of course on the local level. The co-ordination that the AOR can provide on the local level would contextualise mine action to address issues of conflict sensitivity, for example, and again identify nexus relationships. So what contribution can mine action bring to the development sector? For example by granting access to production means. Or what is the relationship of mine action to the protection of civilians in a certain humanitarian context? So linking humanitarian issues to the security sector again. And donors of course would be very interested in getting feedback from AOR co-ordination then on the local level actually from all the three perspectives. Involving different stakeholders through regular updates on challenges and progress can also contribute to strengthen trust in a certain context. And this might be particularly valuable in conflict contexts where trust is a very crucial issue probably. And perhaps to mention one very specific thing from our MASG perspective or as a donor also as a German donor. In the mine action support group we have tried to promote the concept of country coalitions. This means that brings together donor countries and affected countries in order to give them an additional incentive to come to the mine free situation actually. And this effort is a little bit similar to the idea of local area of responsibility coordination actually. It brings together stakeholders and identifies crucial gaps in a situation, in a threat situation and then also the appropriate instruments to improve the situation. The local mine action area of responsibility should be, could be an ideal partner of such a country coalition actually. More generally speaking the mine action AOR would provide an infrastructure on a technical level whereas the country coalition then partners, I mean the donor and the affected countries could concentrate on the political and strategic issues. For example the AOR could invite of course the different UN agencies but also the authorities from the affected countries, the humanitarian partner organizations, the operators and then also donor embassies for example and then promote the discussion on these issues. Now again I believe that this kind of coordination and discussion would have a positive impact on funding as it raises also the awareness among donors, local context, while ideally supporting and fostering national commitment. I would like to eat my appreciation for the invitation in this meeting in my function as MASG chair because I believe it would be very useful to include donors at the coordination table of the AOR in general. This would allow for communication in both ways actually. Donors may convey priorities, concerns or changes in policy to the stakeholders to the mine action community and to the UN system. And the UN organizations may inform the donors about trends and capacities and available services and resources or convey messages from affected countries. I do recognize that the MASG meetings with its open session that invites already some central UN agencies in that matter including of course UNMAS but also UNDP and UNICEF is a little bit similar to this idea already and does implement this idea. But it's different to have donors, a donor centered meeting and then invite a couple of UN agencies or to have a stakeholder meeting and then invite donors. The messages might be different and the setting is different. So we would still encourage to have this other way around as well. As mentioned at the beginning, I would like to encourage a general inclusion of mine action into the HRPs. In most affected countries, this is already the case as your map has shown in 16 contexts you mentioned I think. There are some countries where there is a land mine problem but you don't integrate mine action into HRPs so far. One is Ethiopia for example. I know that in Ethiopia there is no mine action for political reasons so there is probably a reason to that. In Zimbabwe there is mine action and still there is no mine action in the HRP. So we would encourage mainstreaming in all global or in all contexts where mines play a role in threatening the civilian population. So summing up, I believe the AOR could help to establish a consolidated plan with the total need for mine action activities around the globe. A very important task, help donors to decide where to set their priorities. And so meetings like this one and thank you for holding it and thank you for inviting me. Could take place on a regular basis. I don't know what is your schedule, perhaps on a biannual basis of including the donors or whatever is your preference. Thank you very much for your time and listening. Thank you so much. Am I dare to say welcome. Mr. Binsai. I think you complete this first part of the discussion and couldn't have been richer with the combination of someone working in both Iraq and Congo. And now we've had a local NGO Catalina from Colombia. Now we are hearing the donors perspective also from the MESG. If I may now, as planned, we're a little behind schedule. This is the time. So I'm not sure how we'll get those to see who are those asking to speak. This is a short part of the first discussion on. Do you have questions to the panelists? I know I've taken notes I do have, but I may also keep some of mine, but I would encourage participation from a wide group. I don't know what the crystal Kayla or Daniela can can show me how who are the people asking for the floor or you can even use my personal WhatsApp and tell me who is trying to get. Let me see. I see a view and looking for hands or anyone who wanted to speak crystal. You can intervene and let me help me with who are the people who may want to speak. Let me look for the hands or put a question that you need to speak on the chat function, which is on the side that little bubble where you can put something to speak. Let me give a few seconds. And finally, Katarina's camera words. Crystal, we don't hear you. At least I don't hear you. I just wanted to make a suggestions for people who would like to take the floor. I think you can turn on your camera on that way we see right away. That you would like to speak. And I know that we had a couple of colleagues who had already expressed the desire to speak. And I think the first one is Sebastian Kazak from Mag. Sebastian, if you are online, please brief. If you have comments directed to the discusses, please point to whom or general remarks. Thank you so much. You are muted, but I see your lips moving. Okay, now we've got the technology working. Hi, Bruno. Yes, please. And thanks for giving me the floor. So in my role as advisory group co-chair of the explosive ordinance risk education advisory group. Crystal asked me to take the floor and happy to do so. So in our experience on a global level, the, the my next year has had an added value bringing us together with the colleagues from the different countries mentioned. And sharing good practices learning what the discussion is on the ground working on data management systems and so on. So this was definitely useful and we could provide our inputs. And personally, I think the participation also from my own colleagues on the ground is limited on the situation per in the country, but that could be probably improved. And maybe from the mine action from the side and apologies. You cannot participate today. So you asked me also to speak on this behalf. I mean, we are developing, for example, the essential training online training on essential risk education messages. So it's a good forum to present these new initiatives as well and get a global buy in. Similarly, we are working on the standardizing beneficiary definitions and we know and colleagues were part of that as well. So I think using this forum as well to share our initiatives is worthwhile. Obviously, there is a limitation because we are focused on emergencies is the terrarium cluster system. So it does not include the other countries where we work with that are in a development state. And, and Mr. Binzer mentioned this as well. I mean, the nexus, how to include people who are working more in these countries, maybe a bit of a challenge for this type of setup. Thank you. You're muted now. I wanted to imitate you. You know, we always follow the lead from man. Listen, listen, it seems I see a Sophie you have your hand up. Correct. And if you may introduce yourself briefly and then again comments or question to the floor and if you can pinpoint to whom, please. Yes. I'm not, I'm not able to switch on my camera. I don't know why. But, but so my name is answer feeling calm. I work with echo as a thematic expert on protection and gender. And for us, that also includes the mind action. And the current well, just taking up a post in in Bangkok actually. So covering Asia and the Pacific for the coming 4 years coming otherwise from the the Middle East. And no, I just wanted to echo my German colleague. In terms of the, of the, the, the encouragement to including donors in, in either coordination, actual coordination, or at least some form of, of, let's say, regular consultation. And mechanism something that has also been done by the, the global protection cluster and has also been ongoing. From both the child protection and GBB or is that I think it is really an excellent avenue to raise the awareness of donors of. And specific protection issues and also. I think, particularly with respect to my action, because I think for, for some donors and I can speak also for echo. Sometimes it's a little hard in house to also make understand. To me, mysteriously so, but, but why mine action should also be considered on the pure humanitarian funding. Considering also that it often is very expensive. So, so I think that this is a good way to let's say advocate for the importance of of mine action by. Better inclusion, a bit more regular engagement of donors both at global level as well as that field level. So, it was basically that that was my comment. Thank you so much. I'm Sophie. I believe your comments and those of Mr. Binsail are not falling on deaf ears. And in fact, so it's a 1st, we are using as you know, now the GPC platform this session. It's a 1st and that is why we wanted to open up because we meet regularly amongst ourselves. When I say ourselves, these are the members globally and then with in country coordinators, but we hear this issue. I am here as a moderator as well as the global coordinator for me or. Not to sound to cliche, but why and the humanitarian because my action is humanitarian action. We save lives. So whether it is. To clear to allow IDPs and refugees to walk to allow movements of population to enable other humanitarian actors and sometimes the sequencing matters. No security. You cannot do humanitarian. No security. You cannot do peace development. I like the point from Wolfgang about nexus. I just came back from Congo and then before in West West Africa and the Sahel and I worked on a few. The nexus approach, right? Peace, humanitarian development. It's extremely difficult in the concept is beautiful, but on the ground. And often time and I'm being a bit candid. They are donors in this reading. Sometimes they are after what funding to get, but the sequencing is important. But I did hear some of your comments and and so, you know, we are taking notes and a commitment that I'm doing as global coordinator. Now I'm the hat because also with regards to what was said before. With regards to the interaction with the MSG. This is a unique platform. It exists. It's a coordination platform, not only on UN UN and NGOs and local partners. So it is there. So it might be easier as you say to switch the table around and invite folks to join in the discussions. Perhaps I can if some I'm reading my WhatsApp messages. And I think Sebastian has his hand up. I don't, I don't think Sebastian wants to speak again. Or it was an oblique. Otherwise, I believe the last person I don't know. Let me see here. I don't see a hand if you if you want to protest. This is the time. We are above the one hour mark where we were about to take a small break. Crystal, you can intervene. If you see a hand that I don't see. Otherwise, I believe if you guys don't mind, this has been a rich session. It's the same one session. They wanted to divide the speakers and a little bit of focus with why the importance of coordination and going also into strengthening and maybe just before the moving to the next panelist. Can I go back to our first speaker? Are you there? I have a question. Sorry to put you on the spot. You have heard from donors also, but you come from Iraq. You come now from Congo. You heard that. Can you give your feedback? And we're not going to hold you accountable or anything. So can you hear, see what you think? And I took note of all your issues you raised. Fantastic. Can you give a few words almost in response? Merci beaucoup. Are you speaking? Yes, I am sorry. I have two places where I could mute myself and I unmuted myself only in one. So I was saying, thank you for calling me on answering or responding to the comments from our colleagues from the donor community. I think the donor community have a place in helping the humanitarian community to shape the response. But also, I think, as my colleague have mentioned, it would be also an opportunity to raise awareness among the donor community on the needs for the humanitarian mine action activities to happen as an enabling activity. And it's always a chicken and egg situation, as you mentioned. We know where sometimes you need security to be able to provide humanitarian response. But sometimes mine action part of the security and stabilization process to enable humanitarian activities to happen. So it's a bit, you know, mine action is depending on the context being able to respond to multiple needs. That being said, one thing that I'm not sure if it's still happening in Afghanistan and if there's someone representing Afghanistan today, please raise your hand and you could confirm with us. Back in the days, we used to have mass meetings in country with the donor community that was supporting mine action in Afghanistan. And that was also the opportunity for us to have frank conversation on the humanitarian mine action. Of course, it did not allow always the space as recommended by Mr. Bin said to have also humanitarian mine action NGOs to be present. But that was that was the most of the time the opportunity for us to conversation with the donor community but also for them to have the conversation together. Now that being said, most of the donors are part of the humanitarian country team, but mine action issues are some of the issues and all the issues that they have to look at in Iraq. A lot of the donors in the field in Baghdad or Erbil would come also to some of the national protection cluster meetings, which was a good time a good opportunity for them to be accustomed with some of these issues. But when I when I hear the Mr. Bin said and our other colleague Sophie forgot which country you you are representing apologies for that. I think I think there's it could be quite useful for both the humanitarian community, my national community and the donor community to have this. Very long answer. No, no, no, no. And sorry for putting you on the spot and I'm finishing that part. As a former staffer of the World Bank, I think Wolfgang would like to say a few words if that yes. So as a former World Bank staff after eight years and then I decided to move to proper UN. And so it is clear to this group. Okay. Speaking with donors is not necessarily meaning pitching for the money. But we can pitch for strategic issues and consult with them to get their views. So it's an, and, and, and, I mean, look at me right now. I have one foot in the department of peacekeeping operations, because that's where it must belongs to. And I have one foot in the humanity in realms where we are we are doing. My national a war under the global protection cluster led by UNHCR. To me, there's no issue here, whether we do some of my colleagues, I will talk about protection of civilians. And two other colleagues I will talk about centrality of protection, but it's all the same. It's about saving lives and, and, and, and advocacy, not to treat the donors, but sometimes they can be partners to advocate for us and discuss with us. I see a Wolfgang, please. Yeah, thank you Bruno and yes, I'm Wolfgang. Just to answer to the remark from Fatua regarding the visit in country by the MASG group. This is something we that has been done before and we wanted to take this up actually we had already ready made plans to visit Ukraine in now actually in October to have the MASG meeting in Kiev or the contact line there. Because we also deem it very useful to give the representatives of donors a direct view of what is happening on the ground. I think it's all in in the minds of the people, you know, to have an idea of what what you are doing and what you're the money you are is actually providing for. So, that was our idea. Unfortunately, it was cut short by the pandemic. The day this will be over. Hopefully we will pick the idea up again. Thank you that was all. Thank you so much Wolfgang and on behalf of my national area of responsibility. This is now also an open invitation to visit us eventually in country or at the global level. This is an open invitation. And I don't know whether you know this meeting this forum was meant to be precovid in I think in Bangkok crystal if I'm not mistaken. But now this is the best you get to see the field. You know, we had Colombia and Congo, a point well taken. Let me check with I think we need a little stretch break. Richard, I see your remark about you cannot put in the hands up. Given you will be speaking after you want to hold that to your point later, or you want to intervene very briefly before people have a five minute stretch break. No, I know how that works. I'll hold my point later. Thank you so much. So, guys, how about a really quick break very short and we meet at 3.30, like in four or five minutes. You have time to do private stuff. Thank you. I'll see you very soon. We are on the break. We are about to reconnect. Apparently, some of us are hearing music. Some of us are not hearing music. Daniela, can I can you connect and I want to hear your audio and your video please. We are about to start the second part. I'm not sure if Daniela is back on. Let me check. Kayla, can you hear or see me? Hi, Kayla, can you hear or see me? Yes, apologies. Apologize. No, no worries. Kayla, while we were on break, we are about to start the second part of the session. Could you hear the music? No, I could not hear the music. Okay, there was music in my head. Unfortunately. So, but thank you so much. So let's move on without further ado to the second part of that same one session, which is part of the Global Protection Forum. And we have another series of three speakers again from different horizons. I am pleased now to be connected to Syria. From Damascus, we have the pleasure of introducing Francesca Chaudani, who is a Syria Mine Action AOR coordinator. To let everybody know, I'm sitting in her office because she used to work in Unmask Geneva before. She's been going around. I know she was in Mali and many other things. So Francesca, hopefully connection stands. You can start by putting your video on. I know we had some issues before. We are happy to hear from you to all those who are rejoining. We are in part two of that session, technically how to strengthen the Mine Action AOR and we are continuing the session. Francesca, the floor is yours. Thank you Bruno. And as I said, I hope connection stays and that you can hold here and see me. So thanks again to you, Christelle, for inviting me to be part of this panel. And also thanks to all of you who are joining us online. It's nice to see some familiar names through the chat box and the list of participants. So really very much looking forward to exchanging with you after. So without further ado, exactly thank you Daniela for a nice intro to the first slide. As Bruno introduced me, my name is Francesca. I'm the Mine Action AOR coordinator for Syria based in Damascus. So through my presentation today, which I'll try my best as short as possible to leave more time for these changes in debate. I'll be sharing with you some of my reflection and experience from coordination in Syria and hopefully providing you with some food for thought for the guiding theme of the second part of our discussion, which is how to strengthen the Mine Action AOR. So I'll first provide you just like a quick overview of how the humanitarian architecture works in Syria as some quite specific features and also how the Mine Action AOR fits into the broader humanitarian architecture. And then as I said, I'll conclude with some reflection from my experience so far and hopefully this will help you provide you some inspiration or some food for thought for the discussion. So if we can move to the next slide. So just to provide a bit of a background for those of you who are not familiar. This slide gives a bit of an overview of the humanitarian arrangement for Syria. And I'm really sorry, a very poor practice feels from my side. But if we look at the slide in front of you, so we can say that the humanitarian response in Syria is structured around different layers, so to say. So if we start from the bottom, we have an operational level which is organized around the hubs of operation. Namely, you have Turkey, Syria have an analysis hub which is coordinated by an NGO for you. And then you'll have a sort of overarching layer of coordination which is referred to as the whole of Syria. In practice, at least one of you act as a sort of a soundboard for all policymaking and an overall coordination matters. And it is at the whole of Syria level that we coordinate the humanitarian program cycle. So the HNO and HFE to be clear. And obviously in line with all the humanitarian response structure at the top we have the humanitarian leadership, which is also physically distributed across different locations. So you have a humanitarian coordinator sitting in Damascus, a regional humanitarian coordinator sitting in Amman, and a deputy sitting in Kazantab in Turkey. This is just very briefly and one going to my details, but just to give you a bit of an overview of how the humanitarian coordination is to introduce it to come up to the next slide then. Right, so how does the Mine Action AUR coordination fits into this layered response and structures. In terms of Mine Action presence, we currently have a Mine Action subclass active under the protection cluster in the Turkey hub. So in Kazantab, which is called by Anmas and the HALO Trust at the moment. Then we have a Mine Action subsector activated quite recently, if I can say so just last year in Damascus, this is where I'm currently sitting now. And we also have a Mine Action working group for North East hub under the NGO forum that's a coordinated response over there. So this is just to give you a bit of an idea of how the landscape is for mine action coordination. It's quite complex, overlaid, and many actors and stakeholders are involved. So just to give you an idea, for instance, when we have a consolidated narrative for H&R and H&P, all these hubs that you see in this slide need to be consulted and then eventually the narrative is coordinated among all the people that are presented by these circles there. I think I will just conclude this brief overview and I don't want to overload you with much information if we can move to the next slide please. So in terms of some numbers and how does the overall Mine Action response look like in Syria and the numbers that you see here are, as I said, a consolidation of these three bubbles and three hubs of operation that you previously see picture in the map. So explosive ordnance contamination is a very huge problem in Syria and a major protection concern across the country. Data that we collected for this year estimates that around 1 in 2 people in Syria are living in areas potentially contaminated by extensive hazard, which is massive. And for 2020, all together, the Mine Action AUR is asking $52 million for the implementation of mine, humanitarian-mine action intervention. And up to now, so up to July 2020, only 15% have been funded. There's been quite significant delays because of COVID-19, quite the impacted operation, but now deliveries of services as we assume, this is more than ever needed. I think I've talked enough about the overall scene and coordination, so if we can move to the next slide and perhaps the most interesting part of my presentation here. So as I said, for the purpose of this meeting, I've tried to reflect a bit on my experience so far, coordinating the Mine Action AUR in Syria. And I've tried to come up with some practical reflection on what I see that worked, what I see that was a bit challenging. And as you can see in front of you in this slide, I've overlaid my reflection into a SWAT analysis framework, just to have a little bit of a more structured framework for analysis. So I'll just touch upon some of this point, I'm not going to cover all just for the sake of time, but to start with some positive notes, which I think helped strengthening the AUR here in Syria, which I think would also be of a put-for-thought for global AUR or for other AUR across the globe. Having strong relationship and not just in terms of personal working relationship, but actually being very much involved in protection sector and protection cluster discussion and also constantly communicating with the other AUR, Child Protection and GBV, was a very strong point that helped positioning Mine Action in the humanitarian response. And this has been particularly helpful when we set up the sub-sector in Damascus that I just mentioned before was actually activated last year. So having this really strong connection with the protection sector colleagues and with the AUR colleagues really helped positioning us and strengthening the AUR in country. And then something also that I found very, very helpful and a good strength and I think also happening in our presentation before mentioned that the fear exchange is with other AUR member help there, but also from my experience so far having AUR member at a very strongly operational oriented and a very strong operational background also helped establish the AUR and strengthening the presence within the overall humanitarian response. Now moving on to something that we are working on and I see as a bigger opportunity not just for the AUR in Syria, but also globally. And definitely as we often say, Mine Action is an enabler and without Mine Action, many activities including life-saving delivery of humanitarian aid cannot happen, especially in context where there is high explosive ordinance contamination. So pitching on this part of Mine Action is actually a cross-cutting priority and an enabler for broader humanitarian activities is to me a very significant opportunity and a buy-in to create synergies with other sector and the other AUR. I can bring some example from Syria so far. So for instance just recently we've been discussing on the impact of explosive contamination on school and this led to further discussion with the education colleagues and child protection colleagues to try and analyze a little bit better in a more structured framework without the impact of explosive contamination on children and education. And this eventually led to some Mine Action language being included in the education party in the 2020 HAP, which by the way is still in draft. If you wonder why you haven't seen it online, it's still yet to be published. But this is just one example and also definitely we were very pleased to see the initiative at global level regarding the collaboration between the Mine Action and Child Protection AUR. This is something that at field level we've also been discussing with our colleagues here and it's definitely an opportunity to further strengthen the AUR presence in country. Now just very briefly on some perhaps more negative note. I think one weakness or one sort of point for improvement or the takeaway for further strengthening field coordination but also I think overall of mine action presence in country is that often we don't have a specific profile or like as a mine action coordinator you might have a coordinator and this is the case not just for those of us who are posted with UNMAS but I've seen also with for instance our colleagues here for Turkey HAP but also in other partners there's not such a profile as 100% coordinator function. Many of us are acting on a program officer role for instance so while most of our daily activity are dedicated to coordination it's not 100% and this has a slightly negative impact on the actual resources and time that we can dedicate to coordination because it has to be said that coordination is primarily a human resource heavy activities as opposed to other types of humanitarian mine action activities especially on the operation side like we don't really require a lot of expensive equipment but we do require hands and people and that's sometimes a bit challenging especially in countries such as Syria here you've seen how complex the structure is and how it really requires a lot of time and effort so having an extra or a team dedicated just to coordination or extra support could be very helpful and this links also to the other point I noted down so we comparing also to other sector or other AOR it would be very helpful in general knowing that we can rely on a sort of search capacity support so more support in terms of human resource side but also peer exchange among the different AORs so actually having support from other colleagues who may have experienced similar processes and if we move to the next slide. So just to sum up very briefly in terms of what I took as food for thought or takeaway from my experience so far and in coordination mine action here is it's frankly the mine action AOR in my opinion would mean that you definitely would need the global guidelines and this has been also mentioned by previous speaker in the previous session but having a sort of framework that we can refer to when setting up an operation at field level that would definitely strengthen our position within the country within the broader humanitarian setting then I think also having as I said having a place where we can consult this global guidelines or SOP but also having a broader space where we're to look for advice at trying to guide us from all countries that would also help strengthening coordination at field level particularly in in countries or in operation where there's a height or number of staff so when you have people who may not be familiar with coordination or may not be familiar with the country you know there's a place to look for guidance and document to be a help desk or online library which is broader than I know we do have some existing specific one for the explosive ordinance with education group but having one specific for coordination and coordination guidance that in my opinion would be something very useful to strengthen capacity at local level in terms of coordination then that's the campus point I just said search capacity or support having sort of institutionalized or more easier rolling search capacity or support or knowing having institutionalized way of asking for support or suspension what we can do and increase the capacity in country or having extra pay off and helping putting together documents and having an extra aid for improving and again strengthening the my national presence in the country and then last but not least I think that was perhaps one of the most important points definitely strategic partnership and global setting but then it went down at the feed level is something that's paramount to establish my national position within a field humanitarian response but also overall as underlined importance of my national position in the humanitarian response I think I'll stop here but I'm very much looking forward to hearing some of the feedback from colleagues on the on the meeting today thank you over to you Bruno thank you Francesca very insightful and I'm not going to comment on the comments right now that's on my role but I have to tell you what resonates with me whatever you are going through I will not see the same but similar this issue of not having dedicated functions as coordinators we feel it at the global level as well and I still see your slide on and we will look into those proposal to to see how to strengthen and but very good points and then now let's let's go forward and we will collect everybody's points and how you say the next speaker is Richard Makomak who is the head of the Danish Demining Group I believe he took his position as head of the group in 2017 and since then he has overseen DDG's establishment as the humanitarian disarmament and peace building pillar within the broader Danish Refugee Council lots of experience as well as the other ones joined the humanitarian sector in 2011 and then I don't know if it's a secret or not but before he used to be a fighter pilot in the Royal Air Force and he's worked in and was deployed in several areas including the Middle East the Balkans enough enough I can make it longer if you want thank you so much please we look forward to hearing from you and one last important point to tell everybody in this global setting we are so pleased that your organization is I would say strengthening the coordination of this platform by being a co-coordinator and you are looking into bringing somebody on board thank you Richard the floor is yours thanks very much Bruno and I just want to underline that I'm speaking as the head of DDG here and not as an advantage point of a co-coordinator or anything else so the bit in the intro about DDG being a sector and having a place within a broader mission that has a focus on displacement I think is relevant to some discussion perhaps we'll get into later on in approaching this I have a number of views of my own on the value added of the MAOR generally at global level and fee level and also on gaps and capacities and so forth but I thought it would be interesting to give some time to hear from the vantage point of an INGO that is a mine action operator which is what I'm trying to do and take some soundings from within our own organization from people across the countries of the industry work and I make no apology just for putting them forward as just raw material for discussion so I'd like to talk a little bit about the comments that I got from that internal survey and people's perceptions and perhaps a little bit about some of the gaps that were mentioned that came up the focus was at the fee level and then touch on what I think perhaps is the more interesting longer term discussion which is at the global level where are we going and what can be done and what's coming up so it splits into two sort of areas and we can take a discussion after that maybe if I start with the comments and several that are received back internally from the respondents lots and lots of appreciation about the MAOR at regional at and a country level and we felt that the MAOR had been particularly successful and particularly useful in a number of areas and they want to see more effort in these areas and this is where the perceived value added is at the fee level and that's in relation with national authorities and national mine action agencies and in particular advocating for the sector amongst local coordination mechanisms ensuring that the mine action has its place within humanitarian response plans and securing the visibility of the sector that was viewed as massively important it is a success that we've been able to do that it requires ongoing work and people thought it was hugely important that that focus was maintained and without it they felt we'd be in a very, very poor place so the MAORs certainly at local, country and regional level are by and large seen as hugely important and great value added the points that came up in terms of potential gaps or things that one would need to focus on apart from those four relations, advocacy, visibility and funding that came through time and time again can more be done in terms of training and capacity building and we've heard that touched on already in some of the other presentations can more be done within the HLP area and in terms of protection in particular with vis-a-vis returnees and I think that those comments came from scenarios and areas where people are planning and actively looking for large-scale returns or that sort of thing is on the agenda and I would say that coming from a displacement focused organisation but it certainly came up from the field and people looking obviously at Syria, at Turkey and displaced populations in there there is a particular connection between mine action and displacement that our people certainly brought out and maybe there's more things to be done in that area a request for activity mapping, sorry about the cuckoo clock, it's in the background working at home now report sharing and general awareness raising, there was a sense that some areas it was particularly difficult or it could be we've just heard from Syria, I think Libya perhaps is another area that is particularly challenging in terms of getting presence of the ground having an absence of a coordinated there and I think that gap is felt so lots and lots of things there which I don't think anybody would be very surprised over I think it came to the global level and by and large it was striking how many of our people think based staff have little to no awareness of what goes on the global level or what that role might be those that were a little bit better informed picked up on the explosive ordinances risk education piece which I thought was valuable and the work that has been done on victim assistance and thought that more could be done again in routing us properly within broader HLP thinking information sharing across those sectors in particular cross fertilization across the various clusters and then the large body of the cook had no real idea about what goes on in Geneva to be fair and the comment is a distant and opaque piece of machinery somewhere in Europe came back and I spent some time wondering about that and two things came out of it firstly you know the so what of that is actually I'm not sure that's a problem because if you if you were to move the Geneva piece and what's been done at the global level none of what I spoke about for at the at the at the country level that sort of focus in local response architectures and so none of that really would be that the the litmus test of the global the value added in the importance of the global level is in generating isn't what would happen if it were removed and it's for me I think it's that that's all about the voice and profile of the sector within broader for and putting sector voices on the map not just from unmasked side and the UN side but but in particular from the the NGO component that that is that is part of that that MAA or membership is very important that we have a joint profile joint forces and the AOR itself is not perceived as just being the voice of some sort of you know UN structure so I think that's that's a value the with that in mind I this is perhaps where you and I would diverge a little bit Bruno hearing the the the discussions we had before and I think we need to be looking a little bit more about about not just our placing within the the you know the the structure that is the cluster system and the protection cluster within that and coordination mechanisms across that structure but there's a very live and active debate that's going on right now and we touched on it just briefly before with some talk of the the the next is planning and in a sense I think one of the challenges we have is that it comes from our success within that protection structure as the MAA or within the protection cluster is that there is a sense that you know my nation just belongs to the protection cluster it is it just sits there that's it and and it is purely purely humanitarian and it goes no further and and we are in danger of losing out on on a debate that may actually change the the that cluster system itself in time which is this this whole nexus thing and where that's going and I think we should be very live to that and and and looking to the future pick up on things like the the the the the recommendations that have just gone to the OEC countries on on on that but it should be better coordination across the nexus so protection economic recovery and peace building humanitarian disarmament or the peace cluster cluster better programming across all of those areas and better financing across all of those areas so that I think is the is the challenge and that's where I think Geneva and the global level in the MAA or can add real value is in is in in in plugging into that debate and getting the sectors presence felt in that debate it it for me my nation has a role to play not just in in in response terms in in a in a in a protection environment but also in economic recovery and also in in as you touched on yourself and others touched on in in peace building and disarmament circles and I think it's great recognition that there isn't necessarily a linear march from a response to a recovery to etc etc. But these things happen all at the same time and if we are we are thinking that way now I think the likelihood is that the the community at large will start to evolve structures that more reflect that way of thinking in future and I would I would challenge the global level of the air to be plugged into that debate and to be taking part in it. And I think there'll be if we start doing that fairly soon that would be some some real value added. It would be shame to let those those ideas and those structures and that thinking come into being without a without a firm MA. What is currently MA AOR voice and presence in that I think also that was point about about localization is is incredibly important looking into the future and and I don't think that that's going to go away. So I would echo that as well. So I think it broadly divides into a very very strategic piece in terms of you know gaps and capacities and where should we be going and and very very clear and very firm recognition at the level of the achievements and what's happened in the local and country sector coordination mechanisms. Yes, there are there are there are gaps in capacity. Yes, there's more could be done with with search capacity. Sharing report sharing activity mapping all of any number one of the number of things and I think we're alive to to to most of those. The for me I think the the the more interesting discussion is is the visibility of the strategic piece. Where do we go in the longer term and and when there are challenges or calls out to coordinate and program and finance across the entirety of of of Nexus thinking where we fit in that and how do we respond to that. So I'm not sure if that's answered any questions at all or just just created confusion or points for discussion, but but that's a range of views informed by a little internal survey within the DDG or rather the Humanitarian Development and Peace Building piece of the Danish Refugee Council. I'll stop there and I hope I haven't provoked too much and hand back over to you, Bruno. Thank you so much, Richard. I like diverging views. Give me more. Again, honestly, where I'm sitting. I see complementarity. I see also the limitations of what can be done. Again, I'm just going to be the moderator. Maybe the next speaker can may have a different angle, but I don't know. Of course, I don't know his talking points, but thank you so much even to have taken the extra step of consulting with your colleagues. And I think it's adding to the richness of this is a consultation and the more we get views and we don't have to agree. Now, right now we're collecting, opening all the doors and I really thank you for your views. And hopefully, again, we won't solve the whole world of my nation in the next few minutes, but I'm very happy to collate or somehow we will see what to do with all the views that we are. And I don't think one, what you're saying is negating anything I was saying. I think it's going to be a matter of focus. What do you do first? How do you prioritize? Including how to operate in this nexus environment. Thank you so much, Richard. Let's go to the final speaker of today's session. Who with the dotted line in the global protection cluster is our boss. We have Chemali who is the coordinator and we're so happy to have him on board. Many of you within the protection realm would know of him. He's been a senior political advisor in UNHCR, has been working in the global compact on refugees. He was in OCHA before. By the way, my national service of UN was in OCHA before. I'm not sure whether there's a link to Richard or not. He also served in the Danish Refugee Council in Geneva and his work in several places, including in several countries of Africa. I'm pleased to have the final discussant, William. The floor is yours. Thank you very much, Bruno. Can you hear me and see me? I see both. Is it my eyes or is there a light shining on your head? It's more from the skies. I love it. Please carry on. We see you. We hear you. It's lovely. Go ahead, please. What an excellent discussion. Thank you, Bruno, for this dynamic interaction and then to all the presenters. I would like to start by thanking Humanity and Inclusion for an excellent sprint you had with the cluster. And a big, big welcome to the Danish Demining Group. I have a soft spot for my action. In the previous life, I represented the Danish Demining Group in Geneva and that was an addictive window of exposure to my action and disarmament broadly. First, let me start with a simple message. I love the no-winship attitude of my action professionals and practitioners. I love the mathematical dimension of the logic 1 plus 1 equals 2. There's something that goes boom. If we don't remove it, it will go boom. Someone will get hurt. Someone will not go to school. Someone will lose their job. Someone will lose a child or a parent. Someone will be traumatized. So the mathematical simplicity is, it's rare. I say that from my broader portfolio. It's much, it's very rare to have this simplicity in other aspects of protection work. I like that. Should we invest in removing what goes boom or deal with assisting the victims and dealing with the trauma in a generation without schools and families without livelihood and all of this? Unfortunately, the answer to that question should be simple. We should invest in removing what goes boom or not have it in the first place. But common sense is not often so common in conflicts. And this is why we need more of the attitude of the Mind Action Actors. Second, attitude is not the only element of Mind Action that is very interesting and important for broader protection work. I would like to highlight four areas where the Mind Action Community are ahead or positioned to be ahead of the rest of protection action. And we need to learn from you. Meaning, we really need you to get really good at them and help the rest of the areas of protection of specialization of responsibility to catch up. First, as clearly mentioned by many speakers, you are at the center of the nexus. It couldn't be more evident. You are 100% humanitarian, 100% development, 100% peace, 100% stabilization. I need the way in integrating Mind Action in development, peace, planning and programming and operations and make sure to get the resources from the variety of parts and resource possibilities this provides and teach the rest of us how to do this in terms of understanding the timing and the language and the arguments and the planning logic that needs to be there. So you are at the center of the nexus, lead us with you to really professionalize our attitude to that. Second, you are at the center of localization. You can lecture me about it, so bring that knowledge in working with local authorities. So other areas of protection can benefit from it, benefit from the networks you build and the know-how of how to build these networks and maintain them and work with them. You're ahead. You have decades of steps as a community in this area and many other parts of protection are trying to catch up. So I wish to see you rise to the role not only of doing it really well because you do, but also do the investment of taking it and helping others to catch up with you. Third, you are at the center of community engagement. Community engagement in the last six months is the golden currency in places where we have limited access, where COVID is spread, where stigmatization and other protection challenges are all over. We need to learn from you on how to build these networks, how to maintain them, how to give them information and take information from them, how to work with them. Again, this is an area where you're ahead and we need you to bring that maturity of knowledge and know-how and tools to the rest of the community. And finally, and my fourth point is that you are experts on cross-sectoral programming. This is your bread and butter integrated analysis and planning with health, with livelihoods, with food security, with education. You are much better connected than many other areas of protection and we need to understand how we do that, how we can build on your knowledge and how to take it forward. So my inputs, as you see with my four points, are not really what your guidance should be for yourself only. It's what your guidance should be for the rest of the community. And I'm talking here to call on you to rise to be that protection actor beyond my action that brings these positioning, know-how and expertise to the wider protection and humanitarian work. Member States is an important question and here let me be clear. Protection is bigger than the protection cluster itself. Protection is bigger than the humanitarian action. To have real protection outcomes, we do need protection of humanitarian work, but we also need protection to be recognized as central as well in development and peace action. So I hear you loud and clear, Richard. And with that in mind, Member States are equally accountable to centrality of protection and humanitarian action and supporting us to make sure protection is recognized as central in development and peace. So come on, come join us. We in the GPC have Member States succumbing people to our teams like NGOs, like your own agencies. We encourage that. We serve as a model for that and we hope that we see more of that in the mine action AOR. And finally, a special call for UNMAS. We need to see UNMAS flexing more of its bridging muscles between a humanitarian protection and the whole development, political stabilization linkages and mandates you have to bring that to a nice, comfortable narrative where the discussion is no longer where should my action fit. But bringing how can mine action contribute to getting protection outcomes through a stabilization, a development, a political and a humanitarian lens. So I stop here and thank you Bruno and thank you all for a wonderful discussion today. Thank you so much William. Now I have a problem because I think after this segment you should have been the closing remarks or we can play the tape of you closing this meeting. The jokes aside, thank you so much. Hopefully you won't get into the MAOR's head. There are two sides to any coin. Thank you for telling us what I think we do well, what we could do more of and we have a lot to deal with based on this session. Whether we go, I might now we're going to coin this term Richard's way, William way, Wolfgang's way or a combination thereof and we're not at the closing remarks yet. But I would like to hear we've heard it at the second part, you know, again, INGO, Syria MAOR coordinator and you from the global level coordinator of the protection. And I like this also this approach also of what is protection. So let me open up for some remarks you may have. I know it's we are coming making it close on time, but I want to open it up for questions. I've not been able to figure out how to press the hands up thing. And so you can put a question in chat and I'm checking on my WhatsApp if a crystal can also crystal Kayla and and Daniela give me names. I think now crystal is telling me there is bill who wants to take the floor. But if Bill could introduce themselves, it could be Bill Mounds, Karen or somebody else. Please go ahead, Bill. Thank you very much Bruno and thank you Christelle for giving the opportunity to speak today. And we are working on a small piece of work with the cash. We're looking at cash protection from the global protection cluster, looking at cash and voucher assistance in humanitarian mine action. It's one of a series of consultations aiming to highlight how cash can be used as a tool to improve protection outcomes for survivors of explosive ordinance instance for their families. Others are including child protection, global gender based violence and a recent publication of taking stock of cash and voucher assistance for protection in humanitarian settings. So the conversation that Wolfgang and William have raised is looking at where mine action can lead into other activities that achieve a great outcome and are hoping that this small piece of work will contribute to that dialogue that discussion. To ask of six research questions. The first is a little bit historical. How has cash and voucher assistance been used to achieve or contribute to humanitarian mine action outcomes. How have marginalized populations including women, girls, persons living with disabilities, being effectively served or overlooked within use of cash and voucher assistance targeted for all inclusive of mine action outcomes and to what extent specific vulnerabilities and needs of individuals affected by explode avoidments directly or indirectly short to long term, being reflected in other cash and voucher assistance interventions, considering access targeting criteria and referrals. A little bit of a historical part of it but I think what is increasingly obvious from the conversations today in the work that we started is that the subsequent questions are perhaps more important. Is cash and voucher assistance considered to support mine action outcomes and if not, why not. What are the barriers to uptake and scaling of cash and voucher assistance for mine action outcomes where appropriate. What are the major opportunities or promising practices and limitations of cash and voucher assistance in addressing mine action outcomes and what further research or proving of concept is required to inform increasingly effective use of cash and voucher assistance for mine action outcomes. We can see from the fifth question that we would like to look at what we could or should be doing more of. And the sixth question is making this really clear that we don't just want to report from this research, but we'd like to suggest some practical piloting proving of concepts in a few countries in the very near future. So I'm very interested to talk to members of the mine action area of responsibility to national my national authorities and to agencies that are currently looking at how they can expand the impact of my action to reaching the most vulnerable people in the communities where they work. There's a sort of information that I'm liking like looking looking to collect, and this could be by people sharing into emails with me, or by having conversation which we can arrange over the next 10 days. We've asked a significant number of mine action authorities victim assistance associations. We have reached some. We haven't had replies from very many. The bold ones here are the ones that the conversation has started with. The non bold ones are the ones that we're hoping to be able to get some response and some input. As you can see, there's still a lot of work to do. It will be a report we want to produce it should be practical and forward looking. It'll be brief and it should be available by the end of the year. I'm hoping very much that we can continue to funnel information in that I can process it and produce this small lightweight and practical document before the end of this year. And if anybody has anything that they think I should know, please assume I don't know it. And I would look forward to hearing from you on an email address to Bill Marsden 2020. Thank you very much. Thank you, Bill. I can also assist through the global and the war, and we can find some time I will discuss with Chris telling others on how to support you in this project and research. Yeah, and I see your email is also in the chat. Thank you so much. So we have. Let me check. I know that I lead corn was online. My boss at some point. I don't know whether she's still there and I don't want to put on the spot, but I am in case she's around. I mean, are you there? Do you want to add some words? I think she had to leave, but I see the Viana. I think who wants to take the floor Viana Wagner. She just turn on the camera. Yes to Viana. No, I mean, please. Can you hear me? Yes. And we saw you, but we your your camera is not on anymore, but that's okay. Go ahead. Okay, that's strange because actually should turn the be turned on, but probably some technical program problem. Thanks for for this meeting and thank you for all the presentations. I would like to add some perspective from the Italian Agency for Development Corporate Corporation, which I represent. We are the implementing agency of the Italian cooperation system. And well, it is very interesting for us also to see to see how my action, all these discussions around my action and the integration of my action in protection is very interesting for us. And for this reason also Italy has been supporting very much my action activities with a specific dedicated fund. This is something that is very different among donors. Another way we support my action, but I think that having it integrated in the human Italian aid envelope really has been facilitating so far this integration. And the civil society also in Italy has played a big role in in this. I must say the Italian section, for example, of the international campaign to Berlin minds have been very inactive in in, you know, in bringing the high in the agenda to my next issue. And with with regard to the the the the nexus issue, I would also like to say that we are drafting new guidelines for development in the human Italian piece nexus. We are started this process one year ago. There is a working group drafting these guidelines together with the civil society with university with, of course, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Italian agency and has been a long, very long process and very tough one. And I'm, well, I have to admit that my action issues are really are sometimes set aside and suddenly if I must say on the human Italian, you know, the more bigger human Italian aid narrative. But definitely there is a space we think about the nexus also taking the the recent recommendations from the uscd doc. So my actually my question and I'm trying to get your help in this. If there is some, you know, some indication from your from, for example, as a leader of the era of responsibility for my next on how to really operationalize my next and how my next and can contribute to concretely into these nexus because this is really what it seems to me to be missing. Thank you very much for for all the other presentations. Thank you for the remarks. I don't. Excellent questions. I think there are certainly other colleagues who would know more than myself on how to answer that question. But one of the commitments I will get back to you. Because kind of stealing the words of William. We, in the management sector, not necessarily on mass, we almost live it on a daily basis, I would say, whether we have one foot in peace operations, one foot in humanitarian and one foot as a precursor in the sequencing of issues to be taken care of towards development. I'm happy to set up a meeting with you. And by the way, tomorrow we have a meeting with Italy. Some other branch. So we'll be happy to follow up with you and give you the perspective on how we can add value. That could be my, my, my two cents in this setting while we have so many people connected. But thank you so much for your remarks. Any other hand from anybody. Crystal can come in or to let me know if there's anybody. No, I don't see anybody, but I have people chatting with me in the box and echoing some of what was said by a colleague from DDG about the Nexus and saying that. Yes, we want to see you when you speak. Oh, I'm sorry. Sorry. Some people are echoing the views of DDG, the head of DDG and saying that's one of the challenges that's the cluster system and and also on mass Monday to a certain extent is somewhat limiting us. And it's hard to engage in this Nexus long term approach. When, you know, different organization have a little different piece of puzzle. So I've been getting. I don't elaborate because I don't think you saw my hands went up, but maybe it went down speaking high. Yes. The other comments that I've received. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Please. And I want to thank you. Okay. I think I think you asked, I heard your voice you asked for the floor. And I want to perfectly thank you for your amazing work, not only on victim assistance, because you have been an amazing co-coordinator of the global man action. So thank you so much and we're happy to hear you. Thank you so much Bruno. Apologies. My camera won't flash on, but I can see you. So thanks to you Bruno for recognizing that out. Thanks also William for your appreciative words to humanity and inclusion, but also to the work of the sector as a whole. I agree that we're sort of at the center of the Nexus and we have a role to play in, in, in all of those streams, continuums, contexts and Bruno you might remember that I raised this in a meeting with you around table at the UN in 2015 and there was a proposition to, to sit my next and squared in protection. I said, yeah, but let's not forget about triple nexus and also of course about legacy contamination and the work we have to do there, which, you know, in terms of the cluster system and where the AOR sits, we tend to focus on the humanitarian sector. So what I would like to say is a bit of a critical look at us as a sector against the backdrop of all the appreciative comments made by William, much appreciated. And that is that I couldn't agree more with both Richard and William that we do sit squarely at the center of the Nexus, but as a sector, we have to do a lot more to actually operationalize that understanding and let me just unpack that for a brief moment. It is about measuring our successes, congratulating ourselves on things that go beyond number of square meters, number of items cleared, number of beneficiary reach to actually starting to demonstrate that we are impacting people's quality of life. And I think here, as William was highlighting, we have a very unique position because of the level of community engagement we have. So I think we need to start as a sector to also lever that community engagement to identify community priority needs through community priority setting mechanisms. We have to expand our explosive ordinance risk education by linking to other sectors and it was good to hear Bill speak to also engage with life adapters because we know that a lot of people do not just take risk out of ignorance, but also because they are simply needing to access an income generation activity and that often involves risk taking behavior. I think in that sense, I'm making a call to donors so that when they fund us, they don't just evaluate us midterm and at the end of funding cycle, but also say hey, we're going to come back two years and five years after we have funded an organization to engage in if we can demonstrate impact two years and five years down the line when it comes to quality of life. So socioeconomic indicators, access to services, access to water, issues related to gender from a victim assistant perspective, you know, our girls survivors equally going to school with survivors. I mean, I could go on here as you know, VA is very close to my heart. But can we start to push the sector and again push ourselves to actually start to be more accountable to changes along the triple nexus by looking at collective outcomes. This is the big discussion right now in the humanitarian sector. And that means that a we need to link better to other sectors and hopefully Bill your work is going to sort of be a wake up call to the sector that we do have to link better to likelihood actors. And I also say that it, you know, is important for us to link to other actors and other sectors outside of life. And we hope very much that the International Mind Action Standard on Victim Assistance is going to mobilize the mind action sector to start reaching out to health actors to rehab to mhps service providers to likelihood to a ministry of education to share that what they know on the base of the casualty data they have with broader sectors to mobilize action on behalf of affected communities, and those that we represent. So, yes, we sit squarely. Let's also make sure that we start to demonstrate impact. That is congruent with showing that we're making changes along the triple nexus. Thank you and apologies for the background nurses children playing next to me over to you Bruno thanks for having given me the floor. Thank you. Okay. Again, here's another good candidate for closing remarks. Listen, very insightful. As a practical, now that I'm back in is sitting here and triple had almost. We should then continue to consult with everybody. And now we have a new layer daughters NGOs operators international nationals, you and folks. At the same time, in that environment where I also see funding being prioritized towards COVID-19 related issues and other things. Competition is tough. Let me check if there's any other hand I see none. And as I think I would close we're a little bit over time and much appreciate your participation. Hopefully crystal is not too angry at me. I will close now because some of you know I'm going to the to the party to deliver statement in the CCW conference also, but I'm staying here. Can I ask a favor to all those who can voluntary? Can you put your cameras on? Hopefully doesn't crash the system so that in my few words I see a little bit who are the folks who are connected. Very kind of you very nice and hopefully you can still see me and thank you for your participation. In the hopes you can still see me and a few things. In addition to the gratitude that I owe all of you who participated to your some to 20 half and more hours to be here. I want you to know that this is quasi a first series of consultation that we are launching and we thank the Global Protection Forum to have allowed us this opportunity. I'm a bit of a practical person. And given us the LK, you will remember that your meeting in Maputo got convinced us to do the UN mine action strategy on victim assistance. And now we're almost a full circle with the eye mask. And I thank you for that again. Based on the feedback I have, I believe we will come back to you with some concrete issues. Now it's true. It's a huge meeting. There was strategic inputs, practical local. So responding, I think we will look at the strategic level because I heard strengthening guidance. So we will look in some kind of a product and we will consult maybe in smaller groups with you. That's strategic level. I also heard practical issues. Now I heard interest and again I'm not after the money of the donors right now. I had interest. So what is the membership of this MAOR? Should we look again? Who is a member who's an observer? I don't even know. But I think we should look into that level. And I heard I think also guidance to the field level. So we should have either a series of strategic operational products. But we should do, I'm not going to do a roadshow, but a virtual roadshow for consultations. Then approaches with regards to who gets involved and without exclusivity. And I'm totally against some of you who know me. I like inclusion. We can do better. Now the other side of the coin is I'm a practical person. I cannot take stuff that I cannot chew on at the central level. There could be other ways for us as a community to support each other. And there's no free lunch either. Whether we need to support an initiative. I heard roster system. More hands. No big operations of mine action, but we need people for that. We can put projects together and project ties. What are the needs of this? And I heard the issues and the challenges we are having. Both at the field level and the global level. I will leave it at that for now. I can only say the organizers special thanks to Daniela. I don't see you. Are you online? I mean, I'm sure you're online. Otherwise, it would not exist. Who controlled us? Where's your face? Is Daniela here? I can't see her. Anyway, she stopped. And Kayla, who is the note taker and hopefully will put everything together for us to do a concrete follow up to this. I see Leonel. I will not put him on the spot because we are closing. We, I think you disappeared with Eileen and I called for Eileen didn't hold you. I don't know is Eileen back, but we're closing the meeting. We are so thankful to all of the speakers from different parts of the world. Thank you so much. And I take the commitment that we will follow. Don't worry. I will not call you again for two and a half hour meeting too often. But we will follow up on key products and see how to move based on the needs of the beneficiaries and those whom we serve. Thank you so much. Now, right after this, I changed the order. There is a three question evaluation. If somebody can put the link, I will have to, we are closing. We will put it in the chat. It takes five minutes seriously and evil part of the global protection forum. I understand. We will send the link. If we cannot do it here for any technological issues, we will send to all of you who are there a short link to answer our question. Thank you so much. And have a good evening. Merci beaucoup. Ciao. And goodbye. You can wait for those whom I see. Bye. Thank you very much.