 As for the, the epidemic or the pandemic, as much as it is disturbing through all of the pain and suffering that I see is happening. I believe it's a gift to humanity in a certain way, because we were headed for over the falls. And the epidemic the pandemic has pulled us back from committing ourselves to self destruction. Again, the vehicle of our self destruction is a gonzo economic system that was forced upon us 100 years ago, when JP Morgan instituted neoclassical growth economics as the only thing being developed in the preeminent business school of that day. Stuart Scott is my guest on this episode of inside ideas brought to you by 1.5 media and innovators magazine. Stuart refers to himself as an eco social strategist after working a conventional career with assignments for IBM, Merrill Lynch and several universities in 2008. He gave up working for money, and since has devoted himself through a series of volunteer staff initiatives to awakening humanity to the ecological and climate catastrophes that our growth economic system is creating. The latest effort is an initiative called facing future with a video channel at facing future dot TV and a web presence at facing future dot Earth. Stuart Scott is also a good friend and we've known each other since Al Gore's climate reality project, but we work together for climate matters TV when I, I came to assist him at one of the cop conferences of cop 23 I believe it was and it was the one that day that Fiji was the host but they did it in 23 bond Fiji perfect it's so good to see you Stuart. Same here, same here, thanks for being on the show and I, I almost hesitate to ask because I know and I want my listeners to know. It's still free to only tell us what you want. I want to ask how you've been doing, but I know it hasn't been the easiest road and especially during this hard time of the pandemic. How have you weathered this time. I have different questions there. I've got cancer, and I've got an insidious kind of cancer that's metastasized from my bio duct I think it's from being too stressed out at all the cops that I went through by myself before I got help from people like yourself. And it metastasized up and down my spine. And so it's a difficult one and but I've got excellent care, both conventional care with chemotherapy and and the health, natural care through a series of things I'm throwing everything at it. It's impossible. And I'm so glad, like I can say is I'm happy every day. Losing a little bit of weight but I was always skinny. As for the, the epidemic or the pandemic. As much as it is disturbing through all of the pain and suffering that I see is happening. I believe it's a gift to humanity in a certain way, because we were headed for over the falls and the epidemic the pandemic has pulled us back from committing ourselves to self destruction. And the vehicle of our self destruction is a gonzo economic system that was forced upon us 100 years ago when JP Morgan instituted neoclassical growth economics as the only thing being taught in the preeminent business school of that day which was the first year of Chicago business school. And you can find it in the history books it was called the neo liberal coup. And then all the universities around the world ended up copying. And so now we've got simply the word economics, which is a cover for what I call a Ponzi scheme, which is growth economics that benefits the banks. And it's destroying it's throwing humanity under the bus and bankers are powerless to change it they're trained with all the rationalizations that it's the way to go. But they're powerless to change it because if any of them step out of line and say hey we got to stop growing we shouldn't fund the destruction of the Amazon. Then they'll be replaced by another growth economist. So the system is self healing in the wrong way. Now I've unloaded my major perfect to start with so wherever you want to go with it from here. Well that's perfect that's exactly what I want to know and you've opened up some nice pockets there. There's many cross pollinations or groups that we're affiliated with we're both on the planetary emergency group with a club of Rome and and, and you. Let's put it in the nice term you call bullshit if there's something that is wrong or you don't agree with you. It doesn't matter who it is. You, you come out and you really take, give the honest and your honest views and opinions and try to get people on the straight path and I love that about you. It's been that way and you're, you're dedicated. Not only the way you you interview people the way you bring them. It's, it's, it's beautiful. But that in climate matters TV you've had Dr James Hansen you've had great a tomb bird. You've had amazing professors scientists doctors educators and people in the climate movement but also protesters and you can probably tell us a lot more. And a lot of religious leaders as well. Very high up and so you very important part of the puzzle is the spiritual aspects of humanity. I deal with those by bringing religious leaders and, and people who are are shall we say associated with the secular religions of earth. Humanism. And you don't have to believe in a God or a deity or Buddhism which believes not in God or deity but in mind, but it has a transcendental factor, and, and my synthesis of the problem. I'm going wrong back in 2009. My, my epiphany was that humanity through the secularization of society has come to the point where we have an emptiness inside. Okay, where society created this emptiness because we're not encouraged for many people, we're not encouraged to feel okay that we have divinity within us that we're okay we're complete. And so we've been trying to fill that void with stuff, the stuff we own the stuff we do. And the advertising industry is more than willing to jump in and help us fill that void with, if you, if you only buy our razor blades then you will be yada yada yada or drink our beer and, and you'll get a girl like the one in the background of that advertisement staring at you. And so we've got, we've got a problem is that we are, we don't realize we're okay at the way we are. And one of the gifts again that this pandemic is giving us is this giving us the opportunity to appreciate what we've got. We're stuck at home, we're stuck in a limited. And so we have to appreciate that yeah sure it'd be great to be able to get back to large parties and, and, you know, traditional family gatherings, but the opportunity to see how we're getting by on so little how our real essential are so circumscribed. And we've got all this stuff laid on us. Oh, you've got to have the latest iPhone and you've got to have the, the latest nail polish for women or whatever it is, you know, social media cooperates. They, they just want to grab your attention to sell you advertising. They consume employees and it's all about branding and we are. Before I'm sorry to interrupt you my consumerism is the dominant religion of earth. The dominant religion, because it has the same aspects of believing in something on the authority of others. Okay, and that belief is, you will be happy if you buy our stuff. And that's not true because happiness doesn't come from the stuff you own or play with happiness comes from inside. It really does and I'm glad that you, you really touch upon that I want to bring out a couple more things so the last time we physically saw each other was in November and cop 25 in Madrid, and, and, and it was outside of your your planetary room or the room you were in and you just finished doing a session with Dr. James Hansen. And you're also kind of a little feeling a little frail had your wheelchair there and but yet still going strong like you always do. Had Dr. James Hansen there but it wasn't the first time you actually had had him was it two other times before. And, and actually through the fortuitous coincidences if you say it in a secular way. And if you say it in a spiritual way through arrangements from a higher power. I after trying for years to get in touch with Hansen, and it was impossible. I didn't get any replies to emails. I was in New York at the Earth Institute on Broadway near Columbia University, and I met a friend and we were walking down Broadway to look for a restaurant to eat. And we passed one restaurant then I was drawn through the open I said, this is the one we walked in, and it was empty I said let's go to the back. We're sitting down and there's Dr. Hansen, across in the aisle, talking with two young people. And so I, I said to my friend, please just stay here don't ask questions. And I got up and I stood a polite distance away with my hands folded in front of me until he had to see me and acknowledge me, and he finally said can I help you. Dr. Hansen I've been trying to get in touch with you for years. And I, in, I had my 32nd elevator pitch my opportunity. And he said, I'm very interested. But I will ignore your email unless we arrange for something in the subject line that I will note. So we put a token in the subject line and that became a relationship that we now have. And he will be at Glasgow, if I am well enough to attend Glasgow is the city that the next couple. Next November. And as for Greta Thunberg, there's another story there. And not only did I have Greta Thunberg on my program, by the way, it's more it's evolved from climate matters TV to scientists warning TV, and now it's facing future TV. But when we were scientists warning TV. I was introduced to Greta Thunberg through her father, and I talked him into driving down to Poland to bring her to cup 24. And I told him when we met in Stockholm where I was due to give a presentation anyhow, he came to the place I was staying we met for a couple hours. And I told him I was going to have Greta on four times, so that every journalist there would have an opportunity to see her, not to interview her. So I was the one who invited Greta Thunberg to the cop. I gave her and her father badges for week one, and Secretary General gave them badges for week two. And when you watch the movie I am Greta, that fact is obscured, and they make it seem like the UN invited her, which is not the case. If you look, you'll see them hurrying down the hall and one scene, and he's saying come on we're late, they were late to one of my press conferences one of my programs TV programs. I'm so glad you're letting us know that story I know the story and it's a special way that she, she got into the cops and also was on on your, your episode and show which you have recorded which you still playing is getting numerous views. There is a transition, the other transition is you were on we don't have time in Stockholm and Sweden for Ingmar Rindholtz who's actually one of the gentlemen also climate reality leader that we kind of know from the circle who actually was was there who went out on par to the parliament and spoke with Greta and helped her and a lot of ways to move forward. In my introduction to Greta is we don't have time made contact he he someone from his organization passed her the very first day she was sitting outside there outside the parliament with her sign, mostly being ignored by people she was just sitting kind of lonely and quiet and say lonely she she exists in a world special world where being alone is not difficult and and he, he immediately went back with a cameraman and said may we interview you in English, and they did a short interview that gave her I call it they launched her in the booster in the first stage rocket. And so she began to get interviews on the street, and he introduced me to her, and I brought her to the UN, and that basically launched her into orbit. And in that scene that I mentioned, she's complaining oh I'm tired of all this daddy I want to go home I miss my dogs and he says don't worry. It'll all be over in a few days, you'll go home, and you'll be an anonymous person again. Nobody will, everybody will forget you in 15 minutes, and how wrong he was, but she has matured from the 15 year old who was already speaking truth to elders. She's already more knowledgeable than 95% of the people who attend the climate talks. And now, two years later she's refined her, her, I hesitate to call it pitch. And I think her, her bank of information so much that she can go toe to toe with any denier, any, anyone in the world I would, I would hazard a guess. So is it George Moffitt also Johann Rockstrom and many others have really helped her education given or departed other wisdoms and and been a real learning lesson that not only she she shot out herself for that knowledge but also some great collaborations. Kevin Anderson was a major, you can hear his voice, or his ideas, and I like to think that I influenced her also because very soon after her appearance on my programs and every program I do I insert my, my thing about how money has come to own us. We no longer control money it controls us it's a meme. I picked up on that and so now she has integrated into her offering that is our economic system that's killing us and the system has to change. Yeah, that's so true. I mean, I wonder my listeners to kind of get that depth of some of the guests you've had some of those you have those who don't know who Dr James Hansen is. He was the former Goddard Institute of NASA, Chief Scientist, and he and Al Gore's presentations at the beginning kind of says, you know, when I start first started when you first started in the presentations. He was 300,000 Hiroshima atomic bombs going off every single day. That's that number since been updated to 500,000 going off every single day and that's that's some of the data that comes from Dr James Hansen and many other things he's a he's a advocate for the climate. He also had his granddaughter on the show with him. I think it was the second time that that he was there together with you, as well as, I think we're trying to get Severin Suzuki as well, who was suing the United States, and I think still is or still going through that process. Severin Suzuki is, I should, we should detail that a little bit more. She at the age of 12 or 13 journeyed all the way down to Rio de Janeiro for the initial Rio summit, out of which the climate talks sprang the Kyoto protocols were a response to the recognition that climate was a problem for the summit, the real summit. She and four of her friends raised money, paid their own way to go down to Rio, and she gave a talk that is known as the girl who stopped the world for five minutes, and she gave an intervention, which was just mind boggling. This channel as well, it's been listed on many channels. And if you put them all together, it's probably been viewed 100 million times. At least at the very least. Yeah, it's amazing. I still talk about her today. She's amazing. And she was just on recently on the new TED combination with the United Nations their new release during the pandemic where she kind of gave us an update that she's still alive and kicking still active and climate and nothing has changed. We have to do more than double down and said some very strong words and so there's just a group of amazing people you spoke with you. But that's not it. You've been at this for a while and maybe you want to even go back a little bit more and give us some insights of maybe how you first got into to doing events on on in the press area in the secure zone the blue zone of the United Nations parties the cops events and then other United Nations events that that you spoke or have interacted in. I'd love to hear a little bit more about how you initially pushed in that direction got in that direction, and then kind of some things that you've seen and learned and experienced over the time. Okay, that's that's a that question kind of expands out to something I could speak for hours but let me let me try to be concise. At a very young age, you could even say when I was in my mom's belly, and they named me Stuart was a prescient gift because the derivation of the name Stuart is steward, and it's the one who takes care of the lands. Stuart of the Kings lands. So I have a birthright to be the one who takes care of the land. And at a very young age I developed that that inclination. I at in my career, which spanned information technology that is it and financial. I worked for Merrill Lynch as a what we call a stock broker. It's actually a salesman, you know you're selling concepts paper. But I've worked in various things and it's there's always been a thread of wanting to, to make the environmental more important. And so when I worked for Merrill Lynch I was the first. I know I was the first environmentalist stock broker on Wall Street, and I put it out publicly at an Earth Day gathering in New York. I said, This is my interest. If you have the same interest, please get in touch. And Merrill Lynch, their lawyer said you went just about as far as you could go without getting us in trouble and you in trouble yourself. I was not offering information. I didn't have the information I was soliciting interest. And I went into my boss's office. 20% of the flyers that I had turned out will return to me with expressions of interest. That was before the internet. Okay, so you had to actually clip a coupon or write your name and and not even email your name and your phone number and maybe people had email addresses then. And I got 20% back, which is beyond anything that you usually get back. So my manager said this a great idea but you can't do it at Merrill Lynch. Why not, because we are the thundering herd and if we recommended one of those pure plays in environmental remediation. So I put their stock out of the water on the upside or the downside. You can't do it here. So I quit Merrill Lynch and I went on to that same kind of thing kept expressing itself, whatever job I had. I was thinking how do I benefit the planet. Finally, in 2008, I was teaching college. I was going to go to the cop my the university I was teaching at the college. It was not a full on university was going out of business because of financial mismanagement. And I said, if I cover my classes may I leave a bit early and go to the climate talks. They said okay, I had to get into the climate talks. That's a story in itself since I had missed the deadline. I made a contact with the NGO liaison who told me how to do it, even worse the system. Well, she knew how she knew how I could still get in. And, and I did. And I didn't know that first year I went it was imposing on Poland, and I did not know what I was supposed to do but I went with two objectives, one very specific and one very general. The specific one is that I wanted to go to a press conference that the negotiator for the American negotiating team would give. And I wanted to cut him off at the knees, because it was the last cop conference of parties that the George W Bush administration would control the negotiations. The negotiator was an oil company lobbyist. What, what. So, his name was Dr Harlan Watson. And I succeeded in going to the press conference that he gave, and I was first in line at the mic. And I asked a question that did not need to be answered I'd already cut him off at the knees with the statement to the question. The answer I forget is not important. I wish I had a recording of that. Anyhow, the other programmatic idea was I was there to help any NGO non governmental organization who was on the right side. That is was pro life pro negotiations. Any organization like that I would help them in any way I could. And then I started finding ways to help. And that evolved into a place where I was very well known, knew a lot of people. It was allowed to do things. It was told how to get around rules how to work within the rules to do things that no one else does. I, as far as I know I'm the only person who's ever been given permission to hand bill at a UN climate talks. Yeah, I was, I was there for 10 seconds. The guard stopped me and said you can't do that and I said I have permission from the Gumi Endo. And he called her up. And he said, I don't know how you did it, but sure enough she said no. That's fabulous and that's the that's the story. I know and I love and I'm so glad that you're still at it and you're, you're, you're continuing to think about the future of further cops especially continuing with Dr. James Hansen and other greats on the show. Now, as it continues to evolve, and you, you, you alluded to it earlier, but I want to go just a tad bit deeper into so this pandemic, however horrific has been a horrific, wonderful movement for climate, bubbling the problems to the surface and microscope on things and really making a shift in awareness and a lot of people saying they were right. We've got to change our plan there's got to be a different system and out there. And so when the year before the pandemic when the year started out for me, I don't know how it was for you but it started out as a bang companies organizations were doing more than doubling down they were making big ambitions big goals big movements making big shifts. And it was the decade of action still is the decade of action and we can maybe talk about that a little bit later, but it really took off and I was like, now we've put our foot on the exponential roadmap and it's looking pretty positive than the pandemic and I think it was in retrospect a very positive thing what had happened and so that's also that question how have you weathered this time how has that also been with your circles and what you're working on. Now what your scenes moving forward was it a similar type of cases and stories for you. Yes, yes. So I'm working with the opportunity that we've been given. And I remember one of the many things I got from my involvement with Al Gore, and I tip my hat to him, even though I feel that his, his placement in what we got is too central that he doesn't go to the urgency. He doesn't express urgency in his tone, because he's trained to be level headed and scientific. And so he can't shed a tear or or say, Oh my God, but for despite that failure in my estimation. One of the things I learned from him was that the Chinese character for catastrophe or I think it's the equivalent of disaster is a combination of danger and opportunity. So we have pandemic now which is both a danger and an opportunity, and the opportunity is that we may emerge from this with a different playbook. Economic playbook. And so how I'm working with that is. Thank you God, I've been given an opportunity to look 12 year process, according to relationship with the Vatican, which is more properly known as the Holy See Vatican is just the geographic place. The organization calls itself the Holy See. I've been given an opportunity to place an intern from the school of ecological economics, which many of your, if not most of your listeners and viewers will never have heard of. There are other forms of economics, and the one that I'm banking on and I'll use that word intentionally, the one that I'm banking on is ecological economics which was founded by Dr Herman daily D a l y. I encourage listeners to look that up. When this becomes a YouTube video, we will insert clickable links to things about ecological economics, but I've been invited essentially to create a conduit between the wisdom from the school of ecological economics, and the Holy See. So, so the Pope, hopefully will be messaging more clearly about how we need to change our economic system in order to benefit humanity, and in order to benefit life on Earth, because it ain't all about us. But what it's all about is life and we are being part of life. There's a new David Attenborough documentary, which he says it's his testimony is leaving his testimony to reality to humanity. It's alarming what he says, but he like Al Gore doesn't, he doesn't get urgent. He doesn't have that he's level headed. But, but he basically says this is our last chance, we've been given an opportunity. He doesn't mention COVID but we've been given an opportunity. And if we emerge from that opportunity with a different notion of how to run our economic system, then we may survive. I love to hear that work and it is a huge opportunity for us not to go back to normal to the new normal this is more than the great reset than even the World Economic Forum is saying. And what I what I've always been saying is there's big misunderstanding with the sustainable development goals and the Paris Agreement a lot of people were under the impression that that they are both an add on to business as usual or just an add on to some kind of global operating system. It's absolutely not it's a brand new global operating system and it's one more of exactly like you say Herman daily and what you're you're speaking at ecological economics for sure. And I don't know if you feel comfortable or not. I'm sure my listeners would love to hear some some basic concepts on ecological economics and I mean I even have a question that might is it similar to the same form of calculation that we use to calculate Earth Overshoot Day is it based upon a replicable global Hector. The Earth Overshoot Day, which basically goes back to the creation of a concept of our ecological footprint, and there were two academics, Dr William Reese Bill Reese, who's also been one of my guests on my programs. I haven't brought him to the cop yet but that's that'll be Glasgow. And one of his grad students, Mathis Wackernagel, and Mathis ran with it and he has, I forget the name of it. I think. Yes. And he's the one who calculates overshoot day. That is, what day of the year. Have we already used up everything we should have parsed out over sectioned out over the year. That is, that's one of the NGOs that I consider a very truthful essential one but there are many NGOs that have become part of the problem unfortunately, because this economic system we have as a way of co opting resistance co opting the markets. And so, for instance, the Sierra Club, famously cannot say anything negative about the industrial meat industry. They can't say anything about that, because that industrial meat industry is one of their major sources of income. Yeah. Yeah. There's the two. Absolutely so I mean we I do you know I do a lot around food and agriculture and, and it's around the world it's not just the United States there's too many lobbyists that are pushing those industries with the politicians that have allowed so much corruption so bad practice and things to get in 2008 the entire world shifted and financial markets and investments to anything to do with the food systems. And at that shift, it turned food systems into a commodity and when you commoditize food, then you cheapen food which when you cheapen food you cheapen life. And it's just a horrible down spiral ripple effect that is so so awful that you know the people who are interested in food systems now as a commodity have no idea what goes into food and how it's produced and therefore, what are we going to do with the cheapest food. And it doesn't matter if there's, you know, radiation toxins in there, as long as it's cheap, but then you've cheapen life and you've messed up so many other things in life and so that feeds into a corrupt medical system corrupt in that. Western medical system. Again, it's, it's run by money. So if, if our food is creating an outbreak of cancer. Well it benefits the medical system because the, the chemotherapy companies are are amazingly wealthy I have got cancer. And unfortunately, I don't have a mutation that will allow a targeted immunotherapy, but there's one that I've been told may in 15, it's got about a 15% chance of working in my case but it's a last resort. One pill. $9,000. One pill. Why, because they can. And when I went for my chemo infusion two weeks ago. Every other week I get an infusion of chemo in the arm and then they send me home with a pump that pumps the second in a little bit of a time through a port that goes down into my into my heart. First stop is the heart. And they give me a bag of this. K Truda is the name of it. When I say pills, they were given to give it to me and intravenous form of bag. And, and the nurse who administers has to show me everything she's going to give me to see if my name is right and I said yeah the name is and birthday right it's me, but why are you giving me K Truda. And she said it cost me $9,000. And she looked again and she said well the doctor said to give it to you I said, Oh, now the company that owns that because Merck. They have a charitable arm, which will eventually qualify me to get it free, but they can afford to give it to certain people free. When she when I refused to take it she said oh don't worry we have several people here who are going to get it today. We'll just use this bag for one of those other people. Well, they were all paying the $9,000 through their insurance so they probably didn't have to pay a penny. So the insurance industry makes out like bandits, the medical industry makes out like bandits. The food industry doesn't care what they're feeding you because they make out like bandits. And as you said, when a commodity that we consume becomes a matter of what is cheapest. And that breaks or breaks you, you get hammers that don't last, you get light bulbs that don't last. It's quite tragic what money, what the playbook that money has created has done to society. Now, a solution to that which I've mentioned several times in interviews. We had a cryptocurrency, but instead of the chain being hidden, which protects drug smugglers because if they can buy and sell in Bitcoin, then it's anonymous where the money came from. Instead of that model, if the bitcoins that you get, you could fully see who everyone who's owned it. And there wouldn't be any corruption would eliminate the possibility of corruption. The chances of that happening right now slim to none. We don't know we have some, we have some great people, you know, what I believe it was the same. It was a cop 24 and cut the width is when the climate chain coalition was first accepted into the UN and then they started doing some actions and having some organizations or inter agencies of the UN really start to look at distributed ledger technology blockchain. It's a late start but now that momentum is getting more and more and hopefully we can come up with some emerging technology some solutions that are really better systems. Our focus obviously, and a lot of things you discuss as money economics as a lot of this corruption and, and things like that and when we began our conversation, you you spoke about neoliberalism well there's this there's this thing and we can maybe touch upon that as well. I absolutely do not believe in neoliberalism neo Darwinism I believe that it is not survival of the fittest only the strong survive natural selection. And sorry again my French that's all bullshit because the way our world works is more of a symbiotic earth a, you know, one within planetary boundaries for all homo sapiens and on this spaceship or together that with cooperation collaboration with doing things together instead of in a competitive, only the strong survive survival of the fittest, severe competition. That's just not how our world works and there's, there's some emerging older wisdoms that are now coming out more and that realizing that that our world is all interconnected and it requires us all to work in collaboration instead of this severe competition competitive type of a world but I don't know if you have some things you can add to that as well. Mark, you're brilliant and you include so many avenues that I'd like to follow up on. Let me first deal with a flag that I sent up in my mind when you were speaking. One of the other, I won't call it a solution. I don't believe we can solve the problem in the ordinary meaning of the word, which is putting the toothpaste back in the tube. The earth is never going to go back to the stable state that it was in through the Holocene we have entered the Anthropocene era, where humanity is now shaping the ecology of the planet. It's a force of nature. We're going to go back with a solution. I call them interventions. And one of the interventions that I'm beginning to recommend broadly. Every time every opportunity is that if we could get business schools, even one preeminent business school like JP Morgan cleverly did to insist that every business major be required to take a course in ecology. A course in ethics that alone would transform what we were turning out in terms of MBAs. That would be a very powerful move. So I want to say that, and that will, God willing, that will be one of the things that Pope Francis may, may be promoting through this new opportunity that I've created. Now, the, the other thing, the other avenue that I want the other rabbit hole that I wanted to go down through your question. It's, it's a, it's a rough. It's a, as I said, it's very expensive. If not only I'm going to the esoteric part now. Let me backtrack and say what I'm doing evolved into first, the interfaith declaration on climate change. And that's where I, I said at the UN meeting that faiths are all together on this point. And I had a gentleman on the panel, who was a member it was in Thailand and he was a member of the, the broad royal family was a descendant of Rama five, who was the king depicted in the king and I. He was one of the descendants, but he's a scientist well known, and he was on the panel. So, after the interfaith declaration.org it's still there signed by the Dalai Lama and others, many others. I made it the United Planet. The United Nations but the idea is no borders, the United Planet, faith and science initiative, faith and science equal partners. So moving to the faith side and I and by faith, you don't have to believe in God it's the ethics, it's the spiritual without being religious necessarily humanity needs to go through the recognition that we are all part of the same being, not only are we interdependent. But we are the same at a very deep level. I know the Dalai Lama has a brilliant one minute speech that he gave. Again, I've got it up on my channel. I recommend your listeners go to facing future dot TV and take a look around. We'll find quite a lot of interesting stuff. Humanity has to have that realization that we are not competing for scarce resources. That will lead to warfare, and the warfare that will happen next will be of a totally destructive kind will leave the earth radioactive for eons. That capability obviously exists. We need to go at this cooperatively. We need to figure out how to limit population. In a non coercive manner. We need to tell people. It's not a good idea to have more than one or two children. That has to be an out front message and here's why we have to limit population. We have to limit our consumption, because our ecological footprint can be thought of as a rectangle with population. And consumption per capita consumption the other. So the area of that rectangle is our ecological footprint. We have to limit both. We have to make humanity realize we are all in this together as humanity. And we have to control what it is we want. Private planes forget about the plane the airline industry is going through a contraction. The companies that emerge I hope will be the ones like Delta Airlines that are willing to bite the bullet and have the middle seat empty. Lose the revenue. I respect Delta so much. I went from being a loyal United Airlines flyer for all the work that I had to do and yes I fly way more than I should. God bless zoom. And God bless that universities have realized now that they can do these conferences without anybody needing to go anywhere, and they brag about it. Well let's just hope and pray that they continue doing that even when, and if the pandemic passes I say if, because this is a clever little virus, and if it can mutate around the vaccines, and it'll be with us for a few years more. So it's a long winded answer, but we have to humanity has to realize that it is one being, we are the host for this destructive meme of money, and money is killing us. It's unknowing to money itself. Money has no consciousness to say oh I'm killing this host and there isn't any other can't go to deer, go to reindeer. We're stuck with humanity. Where's the next humanity oh there ain't one money by itself can't realize that humanity has to realize it and change the money and economic system by which it operates. That's beautiful thank you sure that almost answers my, my next question that I have that is a very standard question. I want to ask it again, regardless and bring it more up to to the to the modern day as well. I love the big picture and I'm, I'm, I also have that same thought and feeling as far as we're all homo sapiens and I think we should evolve into homo symbiosis as part of the symbiotic earth. But I know your travels I know enough about you to be dangerous but I want to ask regardless, are you a global citizen and how would you feel about a world without nations borders divisions of humanity one from another and can you give us a little bit more insights and feelings and of your understanding of this concept in, especially in this year of this pandemic where the pandemic's been a global citizen foods been a global citizen and species that travel across nations and borders, air, water, it's all been a global citizen but we, the human beast has been in lockdown and we're, we're not a global citizen and we're being divided with nationalistic fervor and divided amongst each other. Give us some insight. Yeah, yeah. The polarization within the United States is so extreme, unbelievably extreme. And we have a huge fragment of America that actually believes the trash that Trump has been dishing out in Trump is a pathological liar. And yet he's so charismatic that he's attracted a following of millions of people who want to believe the crap that he says wants to believe it. Nothing can convince them otherwise the election was stolen. I've got no proof but I know the election was stolen. In any case, the question was about global government one world government. Very strongly, that if we could do that, if we could have all nations submit their sovereignty to a world government. It would benefit us if, as my dad used to say, it's a big if, if the means by which we governed means by which we authorized. And implemented or correct or proper. And it wasn't a wealthy elite that could be bought into the elect that could buy their way into power. If it was a citizen directed government. I know extinction rebellion has a proposal out for this. There's is not the only proposal, but they are saying the government should be composed of people who are selected, almost randomly. And to sit on a panel council. An advisory panel or council feel strongly that something like that needs to happen. If it doesn't. Then I pity the next generation and pity them. They're going to go through hard times anyhow. But if if we emerge from the pandemic with businesses usual. The rich old guys, mostly guys. The good old buddies running the show. And it's not. I want to say again, it's not the presidents and prime ministers who run the show. It's the central banks that run the show. I'll quote for the third time in three days, I'll quote my Rothschild the patriarch of the famous banking family from Switzerland. My Rothschild once said, give me the power to create the money of a nation. And I care not who makes the laws. So it's money via the central banks. That controls our governance. We have to eliminate that we have to prevent governance from enriching those who govern. And we have to keep governance away from the already wealthy, unless they are randomly drawn to be part of this citizens assembly. Now, I'll besides mentioning Roger Hallam, who describes their system to me in a program we published on our website on our TV channel. I want to mention another name Alan savory. He's not a PhD, he's not a doctor nor am I, but PhD does not define the entire class of people who have something wise to contribute smart. You don't have to have a PhD to be smart and pertinent. Alan savory and his organization the savory Institute have come up with a system of governance, which similarly would rely on citizens assembly, the specifics of what he is recommending. You won't go into. But you will in a few months time be able to find that on our TV channel as well, which is facing future dot TV. Easy to remember we are facing future. So many models out there that are positively beginning to emerge different economic models different operating systems that are more of a global governance. I, you know, back when, when I was in my late 20s, early 30s. There was, you know, this big fear of the new world order and, you know, this form of a global governance and even box about the United Nations and crazy things that the UN was trying to do. I don't know that the United Nations would be the proper organization for this global governance. I'm because the United Nations is under the influence of neoclassical growth economics. If you take a look at sustainability goals. Yep. They had to grow. Yeah. Number eight. Good jobs and economic growth. Now, they, they, they cover their butts by saying economic growth for the underdeveloped nations that need to grow their economic systems to raise their populations out of poverty. And I say that that concept is a worthy one. I always like to say, decent work and sustainable economic growth. I'm a big, you know, 19. It's oxymoron. It's an oxymoron is a contradiction in terms, nothing organic can grow forever within a finite container. Last time I checked the earth was a finite container. Notice that the billionaires are talking about going to Mars, a because it gets our mind off of our problems, and because they fully intend to abandon us and leave us in the trash. While they try to colonize Mars or other places where they can live out their lives securely in, I mean, there are different solutions. Richard Branson and, and Jeff Bezos they all. There's quite a few. Jeff Bezos was the name I was looking for. They envision colonization of essentially spaceports. Elon Musk envisions colonization of Mars, neither of which I believe will happen within our lifetimes. And I don't believe either of them will happen period because I don't think I don't think, well, we're going to catch 22 if the conditions for that to happen persist. And humanity is is doomed. And I don't think there will be people to fuel rockets. People on earth to send resupply Mars. And if you've seen the movie called the Martian where Brad Pitt. Matt Damon where Matt Damon gets to play the astronaut who was accidentally abandoned on Mars. And he figures out how to survive until they can come and save him figures out how to tell him he's still alive. Great movie. I love sci-fi. It's a great movie. It's not going to happen. Okay, I can't see Elon Musk growing potatoes out of his own dehydrated fecal material, giving me one of the themes of the movie but it's wonderful. So we have so many rabbit holes that we could go down. There are actually numerous, in my opinion, and so gladly so donut economics ecological economics and many donut economics donut economics. Kate real worth. Yeah, she's a student of ecological economics is another brand of ecological economics. And we should do a separate program where I where I describe ecological economics for you. And we're definitely going to have to get to because there are a lot emerging and what I really want to say is, it's, it's, I think there are some models out there that we do not need to, to get rid of nations or cultures or even a local rule on a national level. But what we need to do is raise the bar the global operating system some kind of a global form of governance to a higher level and say, This is where we're never going to let humanity get below this level ever again and here's the basics covered for all humanity and the global operating system that would would raise the high the bar higher for future corruptions or future chaos in a governance type of system they're going to have to get much more wiser or or innovative and how they cheat or hack the system that would then affect the individual individual nations or the humanity at the basic levels because we've raised the bar so high that we say on a global level will not let humanity ever go below this again. And that's a different type of governance I mean, we have so many problems, just the US politics alone and in voting and how long it takes to get someone out of this, how long it takes to figure out voting and electoral college we know that there's so many issues in there. So we, we need to save that for another day to go down those rabbit holes and discuss those because honestly we probably each of us have a couple hours of, of material that we could discuss, and that we should eventually dive into Kate and Mariana Mariana Machucatu, I believe is also another economist. I love Jeffrey sacks and many others who have some some good logical economics and some other even Jeremy Rifkin, some of his ideas are great that we should discuss in the future. But what what I want to do now is, because we're, we're kind of running short on time I want to get into some final questions are really important for me. One is the burning question WTF. And that's what we've all been asking ourselves this year, but it's not the swear word, even though we've been asking ourselves that as well. It's actually, what's the future. I want to know from you because I know you're a deep thinker and a big visionary. And you've thought about, you know, what's the future. And I hope you can give us the, the non dystopian future answer because I know you have a dystopian one as well. Yes. And for me, there's a probability. Yeah. The world I see the future in terms of probabilities. And I don't measure them I don't write them down I just proceed it that way that we are the present moment is the trunk of the tree. And the trunk sends out major branches, and those major branches send out minor branches. And when you get to that first major branching, and you move down one of the branches that becomes the trunk. And then your decisions are limited by that decision that you made. So I will proceed down the hopeful future branch the non dystopian one, but I will have to caveat and say that I think, currently, the probability is that we will proceed down the dystopian one. But given that there still remains a chance that we can go for a non dystopian future. What I see happening is world governance via the current system, the world economic forum, the G seven the G 20, the European Union, I see one or two nations, nation states, waking up. Setting the example by which everyone then adopts this non dystopian future. And that basically is a decision to have an open society to have information flow freely to have a. Okay, when I say that that is non copyrights or copyrights exist for a very short period of time. So it's not. Hey, I own this for 50 years and I can make money on it for 50 years. And if I change a word then it's, I can renew it for another 50 year. We need to get away from that to information. Human wisdom is freely exchanged. There's no need for a fair use clause because any information can be used. Well, then aren't you taking away someone's income. Well, what we need is a basic guaranteed income, which is one of the things that's being discussed in progressive circles in many countries. I mean, went to a minimum income in order to deal with the COVID crisis. So they didn't have people jumping off buildings because they lost their job and they have kids to support. There's a minimum income. Well, then you need to learn how to spend that income to support your family and you need to plan on fewer kids if your minimum income is going to be. Excuse me if you're guaranteed income shouldn't use the word minimum, if you're guaranteed income is going to be limited. You make the choice to have one child instead of a family of 10. So, if we are going to go down the non-disturbing path, and I think we need a guaranteed income for people. We need to encourage to teach ethics at a very young age so we don't have people cheating. So we don't emerge a society in which you can say oh they shouldn't get money for free because then they're going to just yada yada yada they're just going to be lazy and do nothing, you know. People who work the system like that. I live in the back of a valley in Honolulu where it's the middle of the valley is occupied by controlled income controlled rental housing. You know, that are below market rental prices so that people who don't have a lot of money can live somewhere. The stretched limousines parked outside of some of these houses now want to make a caveat there. It's not because they're richest because the tourists coming to Hawaii want to be picked up at the airport in a stretched limousine. The people who the Japanese people weddings that are done, they want to be ferried over to the beach to do the the schlock photos of kissing one another in the sunset and that's why there are the stretch limousines, but it's not my belief that they're hurting for money. The system is being worked there are welfare cheats. So we need to evolve a system where an education system where kids are taught at a young age. Instead of being taught with with tools like monopoly game of monopoly. I blame that for a lot of what's going on, because it's ultra capitalism it's a form of capitalism, where you don't win by having more when time is out. You win this marathon game that can go on until everyone's broke except the one winner the person who's got it all. What we teach that to our kids at a young age, and we are surprised at the outcome. We need to have something else. Instead of monopoly. We need to have cooperative or cooperate. I don't know how to create the noun for it. Yeah, I like that. That is beautiful to see that you can you didn't keep it to dystopian that you got it into a hopeful optimistic future and I believe in many respects that's the part of the future that we want to live in. I'm going to talk about some of the tools that will need to get there. These last three questions that I have for you Stuart or really a kind of a selfish take away from my listeners I want you to depart some of your words of wisdom over the years to help them to be able to make an impact and to maybe learn some of the lessons that you learned a little bit faster. If there was one message that you could depart my listeners as a sustainable takeaway that had the power to change their lives. What would it be your message. Thank you. Thank you. The basis I can give to the wisdom that I've gathered over the course of my life is that we on an individual basis need to learn to distinguish between what we need and what we want. Many things will fall into both categories I both need it and want it. I need to eat, and I want to eat. I don't need to eat caviar. I don't need to have the latest iPhone. I want, maybe I don't want. I pride myself on still having an operative iPhone three. I can only use it as a internet connected device because the the global cellular system has evolved away from that technology. Again, there are so many people who want the latest iPhone, and that want has been created by the hooks of the advertising industry by Apple making it seem so cool and sleek and sexy. In their videos. We need to learn to distinguish between what we need versus what we want. And if you can do that, the benefit is immediately to you. And the follow on benefit is to society. The benefit to you is that you get happy. And you it's easy to get what you need, relatively, not for everybody in the world. But it's relatively easy to get what you need. But it's far more difficult to always get what you want. And I will quote the famous philosopher, you don't think of him as a philosopher, Mick Jagger, Jagger. You can't always get what you want. But if you try sometime, you'll find you can get what you need. Yeah, it was it's real unique on your answer because when I was a kid I was raised with a quote. That's very similar the greatest cause of human suffering is that when we trade what we want now for what we need, or what we need most and long term. And these short, we don't make any sacrifices would get the now and it's really what we need most to survive and don't distinguish that as I really see there's some similarities there. What have you experienced or learned in your professional journey so far that you would have loved to know from the start. What do I wish I knew then what I know now essentially right. Yeah, my personal life. The everyone's got an ego, each ego is different, but they're all composed of the same elements, just in different amounts. And this is, I say this through the knowledge that I've gained through a particular metaphysical organization that I worked with for many years, called a Rica, a R I C a Rica dot RG is their website but the casual visitor will not get what the actual is it's it's difficult you have to get into it to understand. So what I wish I knew then what I know now is that people like me. I grew up thinking, why would anyone ever want to talk to me nobody likes me I'm not important nobody listens to me. I would expose that part of my ego to one of the colleagues I was working with her reply was, that's why you've gotten so well known, because you don't think anyone's listening so you keep shouting at the top of your lungs, even though we are listening. No, and we are listening. Absolutely. People have been listening to your message for your Stuart and this last year in November when we're in Madrid top 20 up 2425 sorry Madrid. I was with Eva heretic, a good friend of mine and you met her as well she talked to you she's actually asked about you. Just the other day and I says yeah we're getting ready to do a podcast and, and just the moment of that, you know, less than 15 minute interaction with you. I wish you a great future life and many people besides the gratitude to home birds or the, the James Hansons of the world. You've touched many of us and and I'm glad that your hair and still fighting strong I wish you tons of strength, or your chemo and your treatments to get through this and that we see each other in Glasgow next November and hopefully a lot sooner than that before online and that you just take care of yourself and the last question or comment I have from you is just basically your goodbye message to my listeners if there's anything you would like to depart that we haven't touched upon and that's all I have for you today. And when you said that what came, came to my mind was my heart, and I want to say to all your listeners. I love you that there is space in my heart. For all of you that we are one part, we are one being when we go to that level of recognizing the humanity in one another. Strange message to leave with your listeners but that's it. That's perfect. They're going to be a lot going to your website and looking you up and and I'm sure you'll get a lot of love back as well but there's a lot of a lot of people out there who really like what you do and what you've done over the years and your motivation to us all and you've been to you mark I, I really treasure how, how good a speaker you are. And I know that you're invited to conferences all the time and the old way when it was fly to a city conferences. It amazed me, your travel route you actually had a shame on you a footprint that was bigger than mine. Well, I've been using my climate and a couple of good sustained certain carbon offsetting and then I try to do a lot with my with the projects that I do to really put a positive impact and spin and educate enough people to to give back and have a good. Now what you can do is you when you get invited to a conference. You can say fly to a city conference. You can say, please do this virtually. Because you're an influential person you are one of the thought leaders. Yeah, you're American expat. And I call you an expat. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you so much Stuart. Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity. Wonderful wonderful time here just kind of bringing heart and mind and body together. I'll take care of myself. My intention is to live another bunch of years. You will you will. I'm going to defy the medical journals. I'm going to essentially resolve this cancer. Thank you so much for your time and I hope to see you very soon and all the notes and links will be in the show description and I will see you very soon brother I really thank you so much Stuart take care.