 Okay, so welcome to this hearing of the local Historic District Commission. Our purpose, as you know, is to aid property owners in the town in preservation and protection of the distinctive characteristics and architecture of building some places significant to the history of the town. We today are hearing the about the withdrawal of an application. And this hearing is open to the public and it's being recorded. Mr. Malloy will summarize the application, the applicant or his or her representative can speak, and then members of the commission can ask questions. So, after additional comments, we will close the evidentiary phase and continue the hearing if necessary. Sure. Thanks. Yeah, it looks like the applicant is here Karen I've requested that you be promoted to panelists so you can present or discuss with the commission. Hi Karen looks like you're unmuted can you hear. Yes, I can hear you hi everybody. Hello, welcome to the mission. Yes. Let me check. Oh, I see. If you can't if it's hard for you to turn your camera on you don't need to. Okay, necessarily. Yeah. Okay, okay. Yeah, I'm trying to turn on the camera, but I'm not sure I can do it. So we have two members in attendance in the audience and so just if in case you don't know this this hearing was continued from March 24 and it's for 71 and 77 79 North Prospect Street to install a fence on the back of the property. Oh, yes, I can turn it on. Okay, so yes, I'm ready. Hi everybody. Hello, would you like to speak to your motion. Yes, I'm first I want to apologize that I'm missing the, the last meeting and just to schedule a side visit I'm sorry about that I didn't get the email from some of my email issue. So first I want to apologize that. Yeah. Okay, we can. Yes, I'm ready we can start. So, the dinner. So I can share my screen or you can share the photo I sent it to you. Yeah, I can I can share my screen if that's you got my pictures and documents I sent to you right. Yeah, they're all up there. So you have to have all the documents open to share and they just have to open them up again. And so I guess one question is are you still proposing to keep the fence or are you at one point you look like you were going to you had asked to withdraw the application. Yeah, now I asked for which broader application. Okay, I can share this picture for now. Yes. Can you share it by the number of the picture I, I, this is number seven. From the number one. Yeah, I wish I could just easily. They all open up in another as each individual image. Thank you for your help. Where's number one. What is number one is the deed right is the plan. Yes. Because we apply it and now request to withdraw it. So of course I want to let everyone know what is the process and why we will happen like this. So yes, this is the first one is the is the property line. We got it from the closing. So, based on this the property line show of our property. And also the estimate agreement we've got it. So when we after the closing where we will visit the property. I find out is someone after parking in our property. So we go back to check the easement agreement. Can we see the picture number two. Yeah. Yes. So we go back to check this is the easement, easement agreement we receded from the closing show this show in these agreements only for property on not prospect can have the right to share the driveway. Yeah, so based on this and the property map about the boundary line. So we have a curious why have someone parking in our property and not the cause is not belong with our tenants and the other properties in this agreement. So, and then we, and then we found out there's the property the little house is belong to the show ways property so we try to connect occurred to discuss about that. And then we met and I also I show him this to a document in my hand. And then he told me he do have the right to assess and use the driveway and use a property to assess his the single house. Nathan, can we see the picture number three, but at that time he didn't provide anything to us to prove he have this right. So, and also at that moment we don't have any day on our head to prove he has that right. So, yes, see you are. I took on market number one, and number two is the car parking. When we visit our property. So we since that is not right because just and at that time I am not sure they have the right to assess their property from our side. We think we should base on that understanding, we think we need to build a fence to protect our property, no matter for the privacy and liability. So that's why I send in the application, but up, but so far I think I should get more information before I take the action. Okay, so can we go to the picture number four million. But until yes, as you see the line I am drawing here the red line, I believe it that is our property life. And then you can see there with the list of parking mark over here, and we can go to the last picture please. Number five, I believe. Yeah, I mean just get that. Yeah. And yeah, see, this is the other parking. And yes, that's kind of real. Yeah, and also the parking over there, we can, we can go to the next picture number six. Yes, open it up again. So actually, they have the, sometimes we see the one car, but mostly they have the, they have the other car over there. So, yeah. Also, we can go to number seven. And the red line is our property line. And so you haven't resolved whether or not. No, so far we have a result, but we are looking for the other way to resolve because, yeah, can we. Yes, that's, it's pretty clear. Okay, yes, the realize the property line you can see the cars parking a property, and also the other car will be parked sometimes on the left side is also kind of in our property. So I, at the beginning we don't think that's the right. Yeah, because you know the cars are moving in and out the library. So that's the reason we, at the beginning we tried to build a fence and sending an application. So, and until end of March, and then we received some documents from Sue is a lawyer. Nadia, can we show the document number eight and number nine. Yeah, here's number eight. Is that, is that visible. Yeah, yes, yes. So it's the deep, they find out and send it to us. The highlighted they have 12 feet the wide right of ways of the and the utility estimates in the eastern line of the land. So, we can go to number nine. The last one, yes. I think it's the pain. This part, yes, the pain one. So, after we received this document from the survey end of March, we also learn about that with our lawyer, and then we figured out they do have the right to accept their property throughout this. The 12 feet weight of share weight. But the lawyer also told us they don't have the right they cannot parking here. They just can use this as a assess, but no parking that's definitely. So, when we, after we learn with our lawyer and clarify everything about this. We respect the rights they have. So, after that we, we, we think we should withdraw the application for the fence bill. But we, but the parking issues not so we are even yesterday I have been in embers the car still parking there but I, I think we can find the other way to talk with Sue way and the other way to to solve this the parking issue. But now we're talking about the fan built. So, yes, we will request to withdraw this application. We are not planning to build the fan anymore. Did you want to say something. No, no, I think that's good yeah if you know what in the future if anything is planned you'd have to apply again to the commission possibly. I understand. So that's the whole story from the beginning to the end. Yeah, I'm sorry about that confusion and appreciate for your work and your time. Yeah thanks I'll stop sharing yeah I don't know I don't have any questions I think it. The commission has any then we can they can ask. Thank you Karen for explaining the situation to us. It sounds like you're going to come to just an agreement on your own which sounds far preferable than trying to put up this fence. So, glad to hear that you are working with the current tenants and owners. Yes. So, are there any comments from the commission that anyone like to make. Are there comments from any one else coming to the website. If there's if anyone in the attendance wants to raise their hand to speak you can now there's there's just two members. I don't see any hands being raised. All right, then, can we have a motion to accept the withdrawal of this request. The motion could the motion could also be to close the hearing, and then also accept the withdrawal. We have to begin by closing the hearing. It's continued right so the motion could be both to close the hearing and accept withdrawal. Okay, a motion to close the hearing and accept the withdrawal. I motion to close the hearing and accept the withdrawal. I second that. Okay. And let's take vote then. Nicole. Yes. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Bye bye. So I think this then takes us to the bigger question that's on our agenda, which is what's happening with the plan to enlarge the district. Yeah. Great. Yes. And I agree also. So I think we have agreement that we will accept your withdrawal. And close this. Part of the hearing. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. The district. Steve. Yeah, well, a couple of things. Back track for one second. I did hear back from Massachusetts. Commission. Whether they have jurisdiction over parking lots. In terms of 90. Can I mention that now or. Oh yeah. Yeah. Because Nate, I know that you'd ask Jennifer. It turns out that we don't, but not because of the Massachusetts Historical Commission, but because we have an exemption in our LHT violates for anything that's not above ground. Nate, was that something that was put into it in terms of exemption and was that boilerplate? Yeah, that's boilerplate. I mean, that's their template that they provide. And I'd have to look into it. I thought that was actually part of the statutory language. No, no. She said it's done by town to town. She said that we have jurisdiction about anything that's above grade. Right. But she said it's a town thing. So I'm wondering if it's a town thing, and it was inadvertent if there's a way to, it wasn't deliberate, if there's a way to address it. So I just wanted to, I know that was an outstanding issue. So I just wanted to bring that up to you. I don't think it was inadvertent. I mean, typically, right, the local district wouldn't regulate things on ground plane because they're not, they're not visible. I mean, I think, you know, I've said that we could, the commission can regulate location of structures or other things. And if parking is, you know, prohibiting a better site design, then you can regulate parking in that instance. Right. So, you know, if someone suggested, Nate, could you ask town council, because she said she said it is a town to town thing. And if it is a town to town thing, I'd like to know what other towns are doing in a busy way, at least with, unless the other members of the council don't want to pursue it. But Jen Daugherty in her name, she succeeded Chris Skellig. And she seemed pretty firm that it's a town issue, not a state issue. Yeah. So anyway, I just wanted to report on that, because you had asked Jennifer when you saw her and asked me. So I had to, you know, nobody works anymore. She doesn't come to the office anymore since COVID. So I had to, it took me three phone calls to get her tracker down. But if you want to, you know, run that by town council, I mean, the town council in terms of town attorneys, I'd like to know, because if there's a way to not exempt that, I don't know about the rest of the council, but she says it comes under the, it's not specifically in the language, it just comes under paper. And she also says driveway. And I don't think the driveway, big parking lot is a driveway. But anyway, that's, that's a separate issue. Now to return to the LHD, I have great happiness to report that Elizabeth Sharp was pending town council approval. She will be joining our ranks, which is just great news. And she's going to Yeah. And she, you know, I've been in contact with her and she's going to do the significant section of our study report. We're in a very unique situation because all of our research, our study report can be put together in like two weeks because all the the form B's have been done and all the research has been done. But we had as they will pass, we're going back once because we're supposed to start with outreach. And so we need to, Native, I'm going to like contact Kurt myself, I think, if that's okay with you and talk to him, unless you want to be in on it. Oh, yeah, I mean, I think, yes, I know Kurt was away in early to mid April. And so he said he's willing to meet. And it's just a matter of getting something scheduled. So I had, I should ask someone in the office to schedule a meeting with Steve, you, me, Kurt, and then Rob Mora. And I can just follow up with that. So we should be getting an email. So when is Bruce's term expired? June 30. Okay, well, on that front, I met with Steve Schreiber after a couple of things. And I'm bouncing around. During the interview process, Paul Bachman charged the committee with trying to do research for East Amherst, the old properties along the oldest commons in Amherst. He's actually on South End Street. And so he was like saying that town would like us to investigate creating an LHD around that commons in East Amherst. So I just want to report that to the committee as well. Anyway, I met with Steve Schreiber after we had our conversation to see if I could get him interested and UMass interested in coming up with incentives to bring to the proper landowners in our new perspective LHD. And he said he would take it under consideration. And I gave him the sketches that Pam really did. In addition, I'm actually, you know, I'm afraid of Bruce 98 and Nearing Street is going to come back. And we don't have an architect without Bruce. We don't have the technical expertise to basically deal with 98 during when it comes back to us. So I asked him if he could recommend any architects. And he recommended someone who said that she would like to inform me, who's an assistant professor of architecture at UMass. Her name is Kerry Kloss. Are any of you familiar with her? Okay. She just moved on Coddest Street. She's actually kind of pretty interesting. You know that church on Pellum Road, that's right before Shea's highway? Yeah. So I'm heading to a single family residence herself. And then I guess she wanted to move closer. She's now moved on Coddest Street. So any of the short answer, the long answer to a short question is our research is done. We have a new member of the committee who's going to help write the historical significance part of our of our effort. And what we're waiting for now is outreach, which looks like Nate's going to resolve it. And then we'll go from there. Thank you. That sounds really promising. And it's exciting that Elizabeth is going to be joining the committee. Do we need to do anything to encourage this architect to put her name in? I'm going to get back to Steve. I wanted to run it by you. I'm going to get back to Steve and he's going to, she wants to meet with some of us. If anyone wants to meet with her besides me, I'm very open. I don't know how many of us can meet with her at a time. The letter to brief her because of open meeting. But if anyone would like to be part of that meeting, let me know. Yeah, Bruce, yeah, I think typically the bylaw calls for, we have to notify the western mass chapter, like a regional chapter of the AIA to find an architect. And doesn't mean we can't still talk to this person, but we would still see if there's other other architects that may be interested. She's in a unique position that, well, she might be practicing a little bit, but oftentimes if you work in a firm in town or if you live in town and work in town, then there's a lot of conflict of interest. So what's happened in the past is practicing architects will not want to join because of potential conflicts. So I think that's great to have that, see if she's interested. And so downtown, yeah, I mean, interestingly enough, Kurt owns most of what would be the expansion. And so he said he's willing, I had a quick conversation on the phone with him the other week and he said he'd be willing to have a conversation, but he didn't say either way if he'd supported or not. And so I think for the committee, it's commission, the question is, if he says he doesn't really want a local historic district over what essentially is all of his properties, mass historic asks for the study committee to reevaluate whether or not to move forward because it's something just to consider. So I think when we talk with Kurt, he may or may not offer that. He may be interested, he may not be, but I think we have to, I guess, first get there and see what we think if he says he's not interested. And if he's not interested, I mean, I've read in their handbook that there's single properties that have been turned into local historic districts despite the property owners' protests, but I'm unaware of like a number of properties in which the owner is against it. You know anything yet? I'm not. When we looked at one of the, I think maybe the first one I had asked that question, well, what happens if a majority of property owners object? And they said, well, we would ask the town to reconsider or maybe reshape the district or something or maybe delay the process and have more outreach until the owners can come to an agreement or something. And so they didn't really, they didn't have a strong answer. They just would recommend not moving forward or seeking some other, maybe prolonging the process or talking to the owners more. And that came about, I think with the first district because Amherst College owned a fair number of properties. At one point there was some discussion about having a larger district and the question was, well, what if they say no to all of their properties? They didn't, but it was interesting that I didn't get a hard answer, like a definitive answer from the state was more about some, you know, just some guidance. Yeah, this is about as small as we can make it. It's only 10 properties. If we were to make another one, another district in the East Amherst, would that be a separate district or would? Oh, okay. So we would have to do a whole separate one, okay. Right. I mean it's a whole. That's not what Jerry that I'm talking about. Yeah, the common, the East Amherst common. Like that bulk would have or the smell of lawyers on this river. Right. Yeah, there's the East Street School. Would that be included in that? Maybe. I'm sorry to interrupt. Yeah, I mean, I think some of it is there's a National Register District in that area. There's an, the towns applied to expand the National Register District. But then the question becomes, you know, I see you're saying maybe we're at a bike around, right? It's like, well, where the study committee for a local historic district in that area would have to then say, well, what is the boundaries? I mean, it doesn't have to be aligned with the National Register District. And so it becomes a pretty big project to determine really, what is the boundary of this local historic district, you know, possible local historic district? Sorry, I see what we're going to say. No, no, I was looking around. I know there's that bulkwood tavern and then if you cross Main Street, there's a number of houses that look like from the 1700s. But besides that, I don't really see a lot. It looks like four or five properties I think talking about. I think the building that the JCA is in is probably one that you would want to include in that. And then I know there's a house further up north east street that was the original post office. I don't know whether you would want to go as far as that, but that one also was a pretty important historic house. Yeah, I mean, you know, I think, so yeah, let me, let me, you know, it's on my list. Let me refocus and have Kurt come to a meeting and it can just be with Steve. And then, I mean, I don't know if we would want to put eSAMRS on a future agenda, if we want to put our efforts there to as well, if that's something we want to have as a future agenda item to discuss more, and we could get some information out about it. Is that? So let me ask you this, Nate, would it be better to, if we're going to propose expanding our district and also the other district, better to do them together or to do them as separate, completely separate projects? I think they'd be separate, but, you know, they could happen at the same time, depending on how much effort, you know, how much effort and work it is. It sounds like the downtown one is, you know, there's been so much work already done on it that it, I don't want to say it's not going to be a lot of work. I mean, there is a process to follow, but it seems like a lot of it's been done. So it's not, you know, it's not like we may be hitting a brick wall. Well, yeah, it all depends, but it seems like we could move forward expeditiously on that one. And then are there, do you know if Paul Bachman has some particular interest in that area, where the particular building that he wants to project? I think what happened was a property owner that owns one or two buildings down there, there's an older house right on the road. If you're heading out of town towards Palom, it's a brick house. Next to the brick house, it's a white house. It's right, right in the sidewalk. It's been boarded up for a bit. They requested to demolish it. And it is a really old structure and the commission found, you know, allow the demolition. I mean, the owner had tried to rehab it. They gutted it. The documentation that estimates from timber framers and other things and it just didn't seem like a good work out. But I think, you know, that is an older part of town. And so, you know, Paul was just, when we were talking, I think during this meeting, you were saying, well, you know, there really isn't any protections there except for the demolition review. So, you know, and then the planning board mentioned it. They're updating the historic preservation plan for the town. And there's a lot of mention of eSAMMERS in terms of either redevelopment or it's an older center. How do you protect it and allow redevelopment? And so it's just, I think, I think just a combination of things. You know, that's why he mentioned it. May, before we meet, can you and I meet or at least talk about coming up with some sort of incentives that we could present perhaps to Kurt? So he would be hoping for an LHD? Yeah, I mean, you know, I was after the last minute, I did look to try to find, like, what are incentives? It's, there's not, it wouldn't be, it would be, it'd have to be almost like non-regulatory, you know, outside the local historic district, you know, whether it's like tax breaks or other things that wouldn't necessarily be part of a local historic district bylaw. Yeah, no, I understand that. But that's part of my problem with town governance here. It's not done holistically. Everything is done kind of separately. And it's not anyone's fault, but what I'm wondering is if there's a way that we theoretically, even if it's under, not under the provenance of the LHD, we could come up with some incentives that we would like endorse and at least approach other bodies in town governance, you know, so it would make be worth his while. And that's totally over my big, big, that seems to be the way to work. Yeah, I mean, I think, or even we can have that discussion with him, like, what, what, what would he, you know, I think some would be what would he be interested in, if, you know, and talk about, you know, when we looked at the both districts, you know, Bill Gillon had said that, you know, it's a recipe. So if you really know what you can do, then it's actually helpful because there's, you know, there's some guidelines. And so some of it might be, maybe we have to have some clearer where the town's working on design guidelines, but, you know, something right that can really help a property owner understand what the potential is, what they can do. I'm not, you know, I think someone would be brainstorming. And then, you know, it may be that it's not the role of this commission might be the planning board or town manager council in terms of other incentives. Yeah, I feel like we might just, we could just have that conversation with him or we can meet separately. Steve, I'm in town hall every day or I mean, it would be helpful to me was, I mean, Karen, Karen and Bruce are on the planning board. Do they have any ideas about what might be what the planning board might be able to do or offer? I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm just, yeah, yeah. Karen, do you have something to say? Yeah. Yeah. Can you hear me now? Yeah. Yeah. So I think the planning board is discussing this as far as incentives. I think we keep talking about we've got to push the design standards. Once we have clear design standards, then these developers can go ahead. That's kind of what you mentioned to Nate. And so I don't know if that's a carrot to say that, you know, the historic commission is only, in a way, we're concerned about the outside structure, the aesthetic appeal of it, and that it would work, I don't know, to enhance getting helping in any way to get the design standards going so that they can finally know what they can build. That's the only thing that I have to offer right now. Otherwise, I don't think we have, we're not at that point yet as a planning committee. Like I said, I'm totally speaking ignorantly because I don't know, this is not what I do, but in an overlay district, like what they did for the garage is sort of like all the rules go out the window. And that isn't, I mean, what we have to do is they want to build, they're going to say we want to do what an archipelago is doing across the street and knock down these old buildings, although there weren't old buildings on that side of the archipelago. And build like big structures all the way up as big as we can. We're saying no, you're going to have to keep these old buildings in front and build behind them. So the question is what behind this development behind these old structures, what can we offer them the way of inducement for the, for the build-outs? Can they be bigger than, than they would normally be? Could we weigh parking? Could, I mean, I don't, I don't even know. I'm just, I'm just throwing it out there. Yeah, right. So I think those are possibilities, right? So if you really want to keep the front buildings, then is there a way to, it could be through an overlay or other things to allow, you know, developments across property lines or do certain things to allow that to happen? And I think, you know, some of it is site-specific. So, you know, is there enough area behind the buildings to do something like that? And what, what does it, what do they look like? So, yeah, I mean, I, I think when we meet with Kurt, we can kind of ask these questions and see what, how, how receptive he is to that. And I think then, you know, if that's the case, then we could, we could come up with some ideas. You know, for instance, we looked at a 40R overlay in downtown that didn't, it didn't, you know, didn't get to vote with council or anything, but it was, you know, it went through a planning phase where you could have increased density possibly, but you have to have affordable units and have design standards. And it didn't, you know, the idea is, you know, it's a state tool, but I think the idea is a really interesting one and it hasn't been reexamined yet. But I think, you know, something like that is an overlay that has the incentive is there's density. And then what's nice about it is that there's design standards and affordability baked into it. So if a developer chooses to use it, then they have to follow certain standards. And so, for instance, in this, in this, on these properties, there could be some type of overlay that, you know, if he wants to redevelop, it could be a voluntary overlay. Could be, it doesn't have to be, but it could be voluntary. And here's the incentives that are go with it. Right. If you choose to develop this way, here's, here's what we could could be offered. Okay, that's, that's, well, you have to come up with that because that's I know it abstractly, specifically, and anyone else wants to come to the meeting who is in more command of the detail to me, please come. Well, I think we're limited to two people. Is that right? Yeah, I mean, we're, then I'm having to post it out of me as a meet public meeting, which we could, I don't know if I'd have to, I didn't explain that, you know, current things is just a, say, like a private meeting, I didn't, you know, that would could become discussed be discussed publicly, but not that it would be a public meeting. Karen, did you have something to say? I think if you stress the fact that there could be density and parking, those, those onerous parking requirements that mean you have to asphalt so much of the property that that could be negotiated. I mean, I think court is just interested in how can he make this thing profitable? And we're interested in how can we make it beautiful, keep the historic part and have it be profitable because we want the tax revenue as well. So I think those are all things that people would go along with because, yeah, that's the road I would go. Okay, so I guess, Nate, you're a range for you and me and Kurt to get together and and whoever wants, whoever else. Yeah, I mean, I still, Bruce, Bruce, I know is said he's still interested. I think it would be worthwhile to have Bruce, yeah. I love to have Bruce there. Yeah. Oh, great. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. The last email he said he was still interested in. So I just haven't turned it off yet. But the ball is in your court. I'm not going to. It is. Yeah. No, you can't. You can't actually. I need, I need that. You want me to, you know, I'm good at bugging you, so I'll often do the bugging. Be careful what you ask for, Nate. I tell people, I tell people once a week, if you don't hear from me once a week is good. Okay. I'll give you a week from today. All right. All right. Is there anything else that we should discuss today? I mean, I will say just quickly getting back to the parking lot issue. Mass General Law seems to exclude things on grade, Steve. So it's not, it's not our, I'll ask the, I can ask the attorney, but I'll ask Christine and Rob Mora to, you know, Christine Brestrup to read this. But my read of it is that there's exclusions in Mass General Law. And one of them are, one of them is terraces walks, driveway sidewalks and similar structures or any one or more of them provided that they're a substantially at grade level. I'm sure you're right. I'm just telling you what she told me. That's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. I'll look into it. I mean, it's interesting that, you know, right. So the by-law that we're guided by, you know, was provided by Mass Historic Commission. They have a, you know, a template. We made some tweaks to it, but really it's, you know, that was, you know, that's a pretty standard local historic district by-law. Yeah. Yeah. I'll ask. It's interesting. I mean, they write these things in here. There's eight exclusions and maybe we could have not taken them all. I mean, the way I'm reading it is that they're all exclusions and you can't say, well, number seven, we're not, we're going to actually regulate it if the state says it's an exclusion, but maybe, maybe we didn't read it. I have to read it again. Yeah. Important to understand before we expand to additional districts. Right. Right. Because we could, we could, you know, we can, we only have one by-law and then we have, in the by-law, we have the districts are mentioned after. So the by-law is the same for both districts. You could always have different conditions or by-laws or regulations for different districts. We haven't done that, but some communities do that. They have, you know, more specific by-laws for each district. Okay. Do we have anything else that anyone wishes to raise? Then do I have a motion to adjourn? Looks like there's a hand raise, actually. Okay. Hilda, you can unmute yourself. Yeah. I just wanted to say that Willie was involved in the setting up of that East Amherst, this dark district 50 years ago, and there are a lot of very important houses there. The Kellogg House, Nancy mentioned was, it's now painted gray colonial on Northeast Street. This is the Bracausa Crosses Street from that, the Xamathist Farm. I owned to the Beehive, sold it last year at 797 Main Street. That was a very early apartment building of federal period 70, 90-ish, which is full of the original woodwork on the inside, but it was connected with the carriage factory that was over there that made the carriages for which President I've now forgotten, but he did use an Amherst carriage when it was an inauguration parade. That 86-year-old brain is lost at the moment. I'll remember tomorrow, but and then the other thing that I wanted to say about the east side of the common that I have to say, a member of my family owns all of the properties in between Kurt and Kurtzman on his case for several years to try to buy him out, and Joel just keeps restoring more buildings in that neighborhood there, and it's very wet. So there's not a lot that Kurt can do with a parcel he has just north of the old St. Bridges rupture. Hilma, you're talking about the west side of Kendrick Park. We're not dealing with that. I thought that's what we're talking about, the west side of Kendrick Park for the historic district. Well, as I wrote you, what we're doing right now is 10 structures between Coles Lane and McClellan. Oh, south of. Yeah, yeah, we're just doing the ones that are deep down now. Because the other, we've talked to Kurt about that one. He's got to make enough money to make it worthwhile. It's not going to happen. I don't think. But I thought you were talking about the parcel between how to UMass, which is the bone of contention. Now, we decided that downtown was more under immediate threat, and that we would do it in segments. Okay, because what had been talked about was the west side north of hell trying to save that. Because I thought that was the part that you specifically left out of the local historic district because it was contentious. But if that's the story, I can, anyway, at one point that was included under the north prospect Lincoln Sunset, but we, because the property owner has a role against it as opposed to the rest of them, LHD, we decided to let it go. Yeah, okay. Well, South of hell, it isn't such a big deal. When we talked to him before, we told him we want to stay at the storefront. Anyway, your wife was him on that other part, the industry people, so with him. But he wants to go like five, six stories high, and he's going to make us bag of money out of it. Yeah, I think it's going to happen because I don't, well, anyway, you'll talk to him and you'll find out. I thought you're talking about the other parcel. You know, Susanna Faving, what happened was that the Historical Commission charged the LHD with the downtown, with these 10 properties downtown Hilda. Okay, I was the one that started this process. Yeah, the original talking between calls and nor be passed out. Anyway, anyway, I'm confused. So we'll forget it. Thanks, Hilda. Before we adjourn, we could try to set another meeting. Let's do that. Nate, do you know of anything else that's coming before the Commission, other than this plan to expand? Yeah, I was going to say that. No, it was, you know, it was busy for a little bit and we were getting, you know, potential applications or projects, but it's, you know, we had, you know, the hearing just at the end of last month where we reviewed a few projects, but no, I haven't just looking right now quickly through my files. I don't see any, I don't see anything. I mean, I do think, you know, 98 Fearing has asked to meet with staff. I think that they, you know, they might have something, but that could be a month from now, it could be two months or more. So I don't, you know, I mean, I'm assuming we'll get an application, right? So are you trying to, you know, schedule something so that we could, it could be both a hearing and I mean, we'd have, you know, for instance, like if we're going to meet the week of May 15th to have a two-week notice, I mean, something would have to come in in the next day or two. And so I feel like if we want to meet mid-May, we can schedule a meeting and if we end up meeting a hearing for a project, then we could try to find a date, but otherwise, you know, you know, it really isn't anything imminent as far as I know. Erin has her hand up. Yeah, Nancy? Yeah. So I would propose that since we have time and this meeting that you're going to have a date about with court, that's one thing and you can report back and I wish you a lot of luck, it's really important. But maybe for the rest of us, we should go to the east side and really on our own try to come up with what we think would be the possible boundaries to work on that area, because it seems to also be worthwhile to pursue. So maybe that could be a task and we can talk. I think that's a good suggestion. Is that something you want to do as a group or just people go individually? I think we have to go individually. We can go as a group. If we want to. Yeah, I'm happy. It's always much more fun as a group and you learn a lot. Yeah. I might have to go or can I raise my hand? Maybe we should wait until our Elizabeth has joined the commission, because it sounds like she'll have things that she can tell us. Good idea. Absolutely. So my understanding, sorry to interrupt quickly, is that she'll be appointed tonight or it'll be confirmed tonight and so then. Rita, are you outside? I am. I actually have another appointment. I'm going to keep this appointment going and drive to my next. And so I could put you on mute. But can I just say two quick things? But I'm still on Nancy. Is it okay for me to talk? Yes. Yes. Go ahead. Well, two things. I'm going to be gone the week of 15. So if we could do it the following week or I appreciate it. So I could come. And secondly, I would like to go as a group. To the Eastern inversion. Okay. So is the, do you like to meet on Monday's date? Is that your preference? I think we know it worked for some members for today and it sounded like it was it was better for some members. So I don't necessarily have a preference. I think it seems to be better for Nicole usually. So the 20, maybe the 22nd. Is that possibility? Yeah, that works for me. Doesn't look like it works for Greta. So typically a site visit is not a public meeting. We could post it as one and then have a walking one, but typically site visits are not public meetings. It really is just informational gathering. There's no decisions being made. So, you know, we could have a meeting where we discuss what we saw at the site visit. And I will email you the national register nominations and a few other other information about ECMR. And so we can have a site visit and then the meeting afterward. And I think that could be like the 24th or 25th. I mean, I'm not, you know, if we don't want to wait too long. I don't, whatever. I guess the second and the morning, just not in the afternoon. Just not at three. I mean, just Tuesday or Monday morning or Tuesday afternoon or Wednesday afternoon work for members for meetings? Wednesday would, Wednesday is the 23rd. 24th. I could do the 24th. I could do the 22nd and the morning, but the 23rd, I can't do it all. So, and any other time I can do, can everybody else do the 22nd in the morning? Do you have a time, 10 o'clock, 11 o'clock? What is people's preference? Is this for the, not that it matters in my schedule. Is this for the onsite appointment? Or is this for an online meeting? I think this was being proposed as a site visit. Okay. Does that work? Yeah, we could do, yes, on Monday, May 22nd at 10 a.m. for the site visit. We can park at the East Street School site. Great. Monday at 10 a.m. Okay. And then do you want to schedule a meeting to discuss it, a public meeting to discuss it? Yeah, I'm, it's up to the commission. I'm around. Okay. Would it make sense to do it later that day? Three o'clock on that Monday? Greta couldn't do Monday afternoon. Greta, you can't do Monday afternoon, but you could do Tuesday morning? She couldn't do Tuesday at all. I think it was Wednesday at 20. Tuesday you couldn't do. And Wednesday morning, I have a meeting at 11, but... Could you do like Wednesday at 24th at 3 p.m.? I think Greta had said Wednesday morning. Can you do Wednesday afternoon, Greta? 3 p.m.? Good. Let's do that. Okay. All right. And then before then, I'll have schedule a meeting with Kurt and other Steve. Great. Yeah. Perfect. Thanks, mate. And I'll bug you in a week if you haven't. How was your schedule like this Friday, actually? What's that? What's your schedule like this Friday? Friday is good. All right, yeah. I'll send an email and see if we can get together. Okay. Okay, so just to confirm for Monday, the site visit, we're parking at the East Street School. Great. Okay. Yeah, you can park on the street or just in a lot. And then we'll meet... So we've got two things set up then. I'm the 22nd at 10 for our site visit, and I'm the 24th at 3 for a Zoom meeting. Looks like Hilda has her hand raised again. Okay. Hilda? Wanted to ask quickly, would you rather or not publish about this meeting with Kurt? I shouldn't be asking you that, but would you rather it not be published? Oh, I mean, I think it's been mentioned a few times publicly. I think you could say that there's going to be a meeting with them. I don't know. With your buddies? Okay. With the owner? Okay. I thought I'd better ask whether you wanted that out there or not. We've set it publicly and this will be online, so I'm okay with it. Okay. Hilda, if you have a lot of historical information about the East Street Con and you want to share that with us in some written form. It's all buried in Shootsbury. I mean, my husband, in his worst days with dementia, could still tell you 200-year history on every house. Unfortunately, that's not kind of stuff a scientist remembers. Okay. But I mean, I do know a little bit, because there was a huge exhibit that he put together with John Martin from the art department at the JCA when that historic district, well, we were buying the building and the historic district was being put in place all at the same time, so it was a big exhibit at the JCA of artifacts. So you might be able to find something about that, of what kinds of things they had there at the Jones Library. At the Jones, in the Special Collections? Yeah, see if they got it. It was a town exhibit, so there may be something. They should have it then. Or it's things like that of artifacts and information about that historic district, because it was the second one after Emily Dickinson. And that was the first common before it moved up town. And the Mattoon House has always been very famous, but you wouldn't recognize the Mattoon House as a historic house. It's been changed so many times. That's the one directly in front of Fort River School. Doner, why don't you come to the meeting come Monday too? Well, send me an email and I'll have to come with my walk-over and all that. Depends how much walk there is. Send me an email with the time limit date. I'm trying to think of anybody still alive who was on that. Everyone I'm thinking of was already there. I don't remember if Ruth Jones was on it or not or whether she was after that. She's a good resource. Yeah, I'll print some maps. Like I said, I'll email the commission information I can find on ECMRS. And if it's too much, if it's too many files, maybe we'll just start something online where we can just see all the documents. Absolutely. JCA had a lot of archives, but they all went up in a fire when John Logan's house at the presidential apartments burned. We lost all our archives. So I think that was after this exhibit. Oh, that's too bad. Anybody can talk to John Martin if he, I don't know where he is now. He sold his house in Cushman, but he was in on that. They wrote, that same group wrote the lost dam roof book. All right. Do we have a motion? I think we've completed our work for today. Do we have a motion to adjourn? I motion to adjourn. I second. Have a vote. Steve? Oh, yeah. Nicole? Yes. Karen? Yes. Looks like Rita is gone. I agree. Thank you all for coming. Thank you, Linda, for your contributions today. And we will meet again on the 22nd. But I mean, that's why I cover this meeting because I know what's going on, you know? Yup. All right. Well, thanks everyone. I'm going to end the webinar. All right. Thank you. Thanks. Bye-bye.