 The only easy day was yesterday. Get your heads up and get your eyes open. Stop trying to hide from the pain. Heads up, eyes open. Welcome to The Only Easy Day Was Yesterday, the official Navy SEAL podcast. Whether you've dreamed about becoming a Navy SEAL as a kid, or just found out that being a SWIC is something you'd like to learn more about, you probably have a lot of questions. I'm Daniel Fletcher, and today I'm speaking with three experts on the SEAL and SWIC recruiting process. They're personal experiences from an active duty SEAL and a SWIC operator whose names have been changed for security. So from the top here, let's just have you guys introduce yourself. We'll start with you, and then go across, and you guys can just give us a brief summary of what you guys do here. Okay, awesome. My name is Sean. I'm United States Navy SEAL. I'm here at the SEAL SWIC scout team with these other two gentlemen beside me. And just basically part of our job is to do outreach and reach out to the youth, high school kids or college kids to give them ideas of what it takes to be a Navy SEAL or a SWIC. My name is Chief Brian Murray. I coordinate the outreach efforts, plan the trips, help put the budgets together, and act as kind of a liaison between the operators and the recruiting districts. Hi, my name is Frank. I'm a SWIC operator, special warfare combatant craft crewman. I've been doing that for about 10 years, and my role here at the SEAL SWIC scout team is essentially the same as Sean's. We go out, we talk to high schools and colleges, narrow down to athletes and try to give a real-world perspective on what it takes to be a SEAL or a SWIC. Nice. Well, thank you guys for taking the time to talk with us again. Let's go through this process from the beginning, from your perspective, kind of first steps for somebody that might be interested in a career in naval special warfare. Yeah, if you can go ahead and just give a little brief. Okay, so for anybody that's interested in this program, the first step that they need to take is to go down to their local recruiting station. What's going to take place at that meeting first is they're going to get mentally, morally, and physically qualified. What that means is they're going to take an ASVAB test or a practice ASVAB test to make sure that they meet the minimum requirements academically. They're also going to screen them, check and see if they've ever been in any kind of trouble. If so, what waivers are available for them. And then they'll also set up a physical at MEPS to make sure that they don't have any physical problem surgeries, things that they need waivers for. So once they get pre-qualified, we'll schedule a MEPS day. The MEPS will bring them in, check their heart, check their vision, their hearing. Once we determine that they are qualified for this program, they'll start working out with local Navy recruiting district scouts similar to what these guys do, but a little different. They're just responsible for the local area, guys and girls, and they'll take them out. They'll do physical screening tests, different things on a local level, and get them ready for the process until they are selected. Maybe we can go a little bit deeper into that from your perspective. These are any Navy recruiting centers, or is it a specific Navy SEAL or special operations kind of tracked that these people have to go take? Well, first they're going to need to go visit a traditional Navy recruiting station. The reason that is is because to join the Navy as a special warfare operator, you first have to join the Navy. So you have to get qualified to do those things. Now, they can go get pre-qualified without joining the Navy and still go work out with the special warfare operator, scouts. They're there to get them physically ready, but they can't actually take the step of joining until they've visited a real recruiting station. And those typically, if you go on to Navy.com or our website SEALSWIC.com, they'll have links to those recruiting stations and they'll be able to find, put in their zip code and figure out whatever's closest. Okay. Can you tell us a little bit about the ASVAP test for people that might not be familiar with it? Okay. So the ASVAP test, it's an aptitude test that's broken down. I believe it's eight different categories. It'll be everything from mathematics, arithmetic reasoning, spelling, word comprehension, mechanics. There's a couple that I'm leaving out, but you probably get the gist of what it is. So we'll test them in several different categories. Each job field will require a score made up of a couple of those categories, maybe two to four, depending on which job it is. And they'll take those scores to make sure that they're eligible for these programs. Do people have a chance to retest or is this something that's kind of like a once and done thing? That's a good question. You can take the ASVAP from the first time you take it. If you don't do as well as you want, you can take it again 30 days later. If you still don't get the best score that you want, you can do it 30 days after that. But after that third test, you have to wait six months until you take another ASVAP. So the best advice I can give is to go online. There's a lot of practice ASVAP tests. So to do those online as much as you can before you take the actual test. And what is MAPS? Military Entrance Processing Station. That's where they go in to take their physical. So that's their entry into the Navy, basically. Okay. So after the regular Navy recruiting process, how does the process differ for Naval Special Warfare? So the process is only different as then they get additional training. Instead of just going to learn to be a sailor and about their specific job, they actually have physical requirements that they have to maintain throughout the process. So what they'll do with these scouts is typically couple times a week, two to three, it just depends on the scout schedule. They'll take them through and work them out. We actually just visited the recruiting district in Denver and Sean actually helped monitor the physical screening test. So they'll do that a couple times a week whereas somebody that joins in a traditional job rating, they would not have to do that. Okay. So physical requirements, athletic requirements, we'll say are kind of the main difference at that stage. Correct. And then the steps follow that. If you can maybe just walk us through the next steps through, I guess you could call it the selection process or if there's another term for that. So it is. They call it a draft. It's similar to, I guess, you could maybe compare it to a sports draft. They will perform the PST as many times as they can and get their scores as elevated as possible. Once they get done to the point to where they're competitive nationwide, they'll be put into the draft system. Naval Special Warfare will pick as many candidates as they need or they feel that they want to take on each month and they'll select from that group of individuals. So other than the PST scores, what are the people looking for in the draft? Maybe are they looking at metrics of the person's physical stature or is it a collection of things? Could you maybe tell us a little bit about that? It is. It's a big collection of things and it can be complex at times. First, they're going to look at their ASVAB score, their PST scores. They're going to take a kind of a psychological test. It's called the C-Sort. For those of you that don't know what C-Sort stands for, it's computerized special operations resiliency test. So this is something that's done on a computer, I'm guessing. It is done on the computer in a recruiting station and you will have a proctor that won't be in while you're taking the test, but they have to administer the test. They will print out your score and that will be sent in with your application package. How long does that take normally, would you guess? Are you referring to the draft in general? The test? It depends on the person. If the person is really spending a lot of time trying to answer the questions perfectly, it could take them a couple hours. Oh wow, okay. In reality, there is no perfect answer, so you should just take the test, answer whatever your first instinct is for the answer and it typically would take an hour to an hour and 15 minutes. I see, so they're looking to select people that will make it through the training process and become an active operator. The C-Sort is almost a predictor. I got you. Mentally for who could make it. Obviously physically, I mean there's a lot of variables that could happen while they're in training, but this isn't a definite answer. This is just something that they use to gauge. So let's say if somebody gets a low C-Sort score, they're going to have to have elevated physical standard scores. If they do really well on the C-Sort, meaning mentally they're prepared as much as this test says they need to be, then maybe their physical scores can be a little lower. But they'll use a combination of those. Is there anything that you would recommend in regards to this kind of psychological kind of evaluation or the ASVAP test kind of approaching this process, like kind of off-the-cuff advice you give to somebody, like just things that you've heard, that you've seen people do wrong or right or kind of dressed a success kind of behavior? So assuming that somebody's listening, maybe their freshman year, 13, 14-year-old and trying to figure out how to navigate this to their senior year, the best advice I could give is to take the classes that are going to keep them at an academic standard they need to be. If they have the opportunity to take accelerated math and science classes, they should definitely do that. Those things are going to be on the ASVAP. The psychological test, there's really no preparation that's by design. That's something that we want to know without any preparation at what kind of answers they're going to come up with. But the ASVAP test really just goes back to school. Instead of taking a semester where you take some random elective classes that you don't need, you really need to focus in on taking math and science classes. And physically, those are things that they need to get on our website, sealswik.com, and we have workouts, and they need to start doing those really from their freshman year onto their senior year. I mean, it's never too late, but it's never too early to start either. I think that's some really good advice. Well, next, I'd like to open up and talk to you guys about your kind of specific experience going through this recruitment process from the SWIC and SEAL perspective. So, Frank, can you just talk to us a little bit about your journey through the recruit to being an operator? If you could maybe just walk us through your journey. Sure. Yeah, so I would dare to say that things have changed a bit since my go-around. It's been nearly 10 years. But for the most part, I think that there's so much more information out there nowadays, and it makes, I don't want to say things easier, but it's just so much more accessible. So here's a, for instance, when I came in, most of the process that Chief Murray was talking about was mostly the same as far as the physical screening test. You had to take that in order to be applicable for any of these programs. And so for those who may not know the physical screening test is comprised of five different evolutions. And the first one is a 500-yard swim, side stroke and or breast stroke. Then you have maximum push-ups in two minutes, maximum sit-ups in two minutes, maximum pull-ups in two minutes, and a mile-and-a-half run. And so the side stroke was something that was extremely foreign to me when I went to go take on this challenge. I had never done it. I'd swam in high school at my senior year. I was on the swim team, but all I did was the 50-free, which was essentially where they put slow people. Is it something that you pursued because you wanted a career in the Navy or specifically special warfare? No, actually, I was sent to military school in my senior year of high school. So they made you swim? And, well, you had to play sports. It was mandatory. We didn't have a football team. And the two sports that I, the interesting the most were wrestling and swimming. Unfortunately, these two things were both in the same season. I ended up doing both of them, but I was exhausted all the time. But it did make me a lot stronger and more resilient. And I think that that did add to my preparation for the training, no doubt. But by the time I actually got to the point where I knew that that was what I was going to do, I still had no clue what the side stroke was. And when I went to approach it to learn how to do this, all I found was on navy.com was a two-page hand-drawn diagram of a person doing the side stroke. And that's how I learned how to do the side stroke. So nowadays, you go onto our website, for instance, you can find videos, or just going onto YouTube, you can find it. There's people who train in so many more locations. It's just, you know, the information out there is infinite. And so it's really easy to find that type of stuff to help better prepare. And just like Chief Murray said, talking about just the workouts alone we have on our website, not to mention any other training programs that are out there. So that being said, when I came through there was a lot less information, but it was something that I really knew I wanted to do, starting about midway through my senior year. And I just made the leap, went through the recruiter's office. And I had heard a lot of stories, I think that a lot of people can sympathize with this. If you have listeners that are already in the navy or people are thinking about it, they've maybe heard these stories before, where you hear these horror stories of dealing with military recruiters, right? So that was my thought going in, that I'm going to go in. They're going to hassle me. They're going to try to sell me on something. And I didn't experience any of that. I went in and I was confident about what I wanted to do. And I think they sensed that. They think they knew that I was a man on a mission. And so they just pretty much like, okay. And they made things happen the best they could. Once I went in, first I went to all the different recruiting offices with Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, just to kind of narrow down my decision. I always tell people when we go to our presentations, that's exactly what I did. So I suggest that's what you do, that way you're making the most informed decision. And then I decided finally on the SWIC pipeline. Let me just interject real quick. For people that don't know SWIC versus CO, to my knowledge, that's a relatively new kind of distinction. Can you describe a little bit or explain for the layman what a SWIC is? Sure. Yeah, absolutely. So SWIC stands for Special Warfare, Combat and Craft Crewman. Military Loves acronym. So it's a lot easier to say it that way, right? So SWIC, our job is the Maritime Mobility Asset for Naval Special Warfare. And what that really means is we drive the fast boats for Naval Special Warfare. So we have a range of missions. Primarily what we're most known for is insert extract of SEALs or other soft forces, whether that's at a beach landing site or visit board search and seizure. So like a pirated vessel. But we also have direct action missions, intelligence surveillance reconnaissance. There's all different types of things that we provide. Another thing we're famous for is our ability to launch our boats out of the back of airplanes and jump in with them so that we have kind of like a quick assault, quick reaction type element. So that's SWIC in a nutshell. So where through the process did you realize, hey, this is for me? That was just kind of doing my research. From the beginning I knew that I was going to do special operations. It was just my mentality on things is that I wanted to join the military. And once I really discovered that I wanted to join the military I knew I had to do something that was just so much more of a challenge. I needed to do it to be the best. And I wanted to have the most effect on the war on terror. So I was like special operations where I want to be. So I went on to talk to the recruiter, the Army recruiter is about Army SF and Rangers. And I talked to the Marines about recon. I talked to the Navy about SEALs. I actually never heard of SWIC until I talked to the recruiters. So at what point did the training kind of diverge into boat specific for you in the SWIC track? Okay, yeah. So everybody regardless of special operations or not goes to Navy boot camp. So I went to Navy boot camp and then that's in Great Lakes, Illinois. And then after that I went to Coronado out here in Coronado. Back then they didn't have the prep course, which they have now. And it's about a week course in Great Lakes before you come out here. And that's for SEAL and SWIC candidates. So even more tools now. Exactly. Yeah, it's really an added benefit that they have. And I wish that they had had it when I went through, but I was still successful. So at Bud's somewhere you start learning about boats or is it after? It's a completely separate pipeline. Okay. So the way it works is nowadays after prep you would come out here and then the Bud's and the SWIC students would go through orientation together. And then after that they split up into first phase and the SWIC pipeline. And then after three weeks of orientation you start the actual training. And so then the basic crewman training is the selection portion. So much like first phase for the SEAL pipeline, it's all about making sure, throwing it down, whittling it down to the people that are right for the job. It's not so much about getting rid of people, it's just capturing the people that you want. And then the best way I always say it is for an instructor, they're looking for the person that they would either want to work with or they would want to replace them. So and that's the way that it's looked at. And so anyways that's the selection portion of it. Basic crewman training. And then you go to crewman qualification training and that's where you really start to learn about your job. Where you know you're learning about the boats, the weapons, the comms, the skill sets, the operating procedures, all that stuff so that when you actually get to your boat team that you are an asset to your team. Training doesn't stop when you graduate from training at the center. That's only where it begins. Once you graduate go to your team and then you have another year and a half of preparation before you actually deploy. Wow, okay. I think that's something a lot of people don't realize. It's something that's daunting to a lot of people when they look ahead of that because they look at the either graduating buds or BCT or just the whole pipeline as the end of things. Like they've arrived when they graduate. And then the problem with that mindset is that when you graduate now you're going to a team where everybody's made this accomplishment so you really haven't accomplished anything. The bar's just been set at a little bit higher but you're still starting from the ground floor once you get there. And I guess if you could give us an example, a real-world example of maybe as much as you can tell us about an active operation, kind of paint a picture of what you do on the boat and maybe what one of your operations would look like from your perspective. So special operations, standard rule is you're always going to be working at night. You're going to be working when your enemy's not. So typically we're not waking up super early in the morning. More than likely we're getting ready throughout the day to operate out throughout the night. And so the main thing is preparation. We always want to be as prepared as possible. We want to stack everything in our favor. So making sure every little minutia of the mission and our gear and our boats and everything is prepared to the best way possible so that we've gone over everything and that if Murphy does visit the mission then we are at least as prepared as we possibly can be and we can adapt and overcome in that scenario. The missions can range from going under way and doing a recce on a target, which is reconnaissance or inserting a seal platoon over the beach in more of a stealthy manner where it could be extracting them in a hot environment, which a hot environment being if they're taking on fire then we have the ability to go in and pull them out. Well, I think that paints a really good picture for a lot of people that don't know the difference between seal, SWIC, TRAC, or that there's even a difference or paints a more accurate picture for people that there's even an option in naval special warfare other than just becoming a seal. Sean, from your perspective as a seal, is there anything that you noticed different from your experience going through the recruitment process as you're listening to Frank talk about his journey coming in a SWIC operator? Oh, yeah, I can. I didn't know anything much about being a Navy Seal at the time. Me growing up, I grew up with my grandmother in D.C., Washington, D.C. on the East Coast, and she was the one who pushed me into the military. I had no desire to join, didn't care, never been in the ocean, never swam anywhere. That was my whole thing. I just went through a regular recruiting situation as going to a recruiting station like Brian talked about and they kind of talked me into some things of what I can do and some more physical things. I came in with a SAR Swimmer contract as a rescue swimmer. So I was already in the military doing something totally different and then the seals came kind of, I just kind of fell into the situation where I was working with the seals. And that's when I realized, you know what, this is something I want to do. This is it for me. So I went through that whole growing pain of growing up to be a man and something that I really wanted to do. So I went on deployment once and I came back, put in a package for her to go to Buzz and be a Navy Seal. And I went into the program. My class for me was about 300 strong, almost, pretty close. You mean the graduating class or just starting out? Starting out, starting out. It's about 300 strong in my class and I see what I want and this is what I'm going to do. I'm about to go after this. And I went to the program. We got into the ocean and started throwing two of my ocean swims against something that I was never familiar with growing up from where I've come from. And it was just, it was hard. It was really hard for me. I barely passed almost every physical test. Now, I was always a physical guy though. So I could, I can gut through it. But two my ocean swims, never even thought something about that. Four mile time runs, four in the morning. Wasn't an end to that neither. You know, swimming in the pool with your hands and feet tied up behind your back. That was something totally different from me also. So I had a lot of growing pains in that situation. Yeah, I think you bring up a good point. I think a lot of people might be averse to thinking that this is something they could even do. Or let's say someone's got a colored past. You know, they, you know, whatever. And it's like, well, there's no way I could do that. You know, I think that your life experience says otherwise. And I think that's something a lot of people should think about if they might have, you know, gotten a little trouble in their lives or heck, I've never even been to the ocean. That's not going to stop you from doing this. No. I think that's important for people to realize. No, not at all. Physically, I was always a strong guy. You know, I played sports in high school. I was a football star. I ran track. So I did those things. But again, that was all on the ground. And that was more of a sprinting type thing for me. But everything I did would be coming to Navy SEAL. Joining the military was totally opposite for me and was never a thought. So now you're right. People just don't understand that they can be more than whatever situation they've grown up in. You don't have to live that lifestyle or believe that that's your going to be your life. If you really want something, you can just do it. You just got to focus on it. What do you say to those people that might think that, like, you know, maybe I could do this, but, you know, I can't do that? I would say inspiration is what it is. Inspiration is what's going to take you to get through anything that's going to have challenges to it. For me, I would say to anyone like that, you know, find out what the inspiration could be. It's all in your mind. And if you can control your thoughts and control your mind, you can tell your body to do whatever. But you just need to find what the inspiration is for you. And then you just focus on that. And then it'll help you get through any challenge that you ever face. That's what I believe. So for any kid, just find the inspiration that you have in your life growing up. And if you feel like you don't have one, there is one out there. You just got to find it. You just got to find out what it is that you really want and who it is that you want to be a part of your success. And you just follow them. You know, did I ever thought for an instant that I was going to be that guy? Not one time. But because of my drive and my inspiration, I decided I was going to be the guy who's going to grind hard and I was going to make this no matter what. Nobody was going to get in my way and didn't matter the instructor, didn't matter the other kids in the class. I wanted this and I was going to grind hard and I was going to crush this whole program. And I had to study a little harder than most because in high school I didn't do what I needed to do to prepare myself mentally, to comprehend diet physics and all these different things that I never even thought about. All the math that we talked about for ASVAP, I kind of just blew that stuff off in high school. So when I got to this portion of training, I had to really study a little more than everyone else. So I was up late nights, long, long tiring. But it helped me. I graduated, I passed those tests, those written academic tests, and I passed the physical test and I was a leader and I wanted everybody to follow me, follow behind me at the time. And that's what puts me right here right now. And I enjoy giving back to these kids and when we're done talking to these kids, they always come up and talk to us about certain things that they took out of our presentation that they can relate to, that they want to use and probably show me something. And I'm happy to be an inspiration to some of them kids at the same time. Sean, so if you could a minute tell us a little bit about what seal life is like from a professional standpoint. Okay, no problem. So we're going to go right into right when you graduate a seal qualification training, right? That's when you get your pin. And from there, you get assigned to your seal team, whether East Coast, West Coast, or the one out in Hawaii, STV team. For me, I got orders out to seal team one out in San Diego. So what happens is each seal team is on a rotation. You normally deploy every two years, but depending on when you arrive at that seal team, you may be just getting in before they deploy while they're on deployment or a few months prior to deployment where they're getting ready to start working up. So we'll break it down into you're getting to your seal team right when you're getting ready to start working up to prepare for deployment. So they call it a six month time period of work. We call it work up where you start to train again, back into it, your training nonstop. You're flying here, flying there, staying in hotels. You're out in the desert, California desert, and you're doing so many variations of training to kind of put you in a position to understand your job. For me, I was a breacher and some of us also get school. So I was, when I first joined my first seal team, they sent me to Virginia where I had to go to a breacher school. Breachers are, what most people understand is, the people that plant C4 on doors to get us in, you've seen the movies or another variation things. So I had to learn about demolition, C4, how to calculate demo charges. So I went out to that school that was primarily my main job as I was the lead breacher for my team. So whenever we came to an obstacle, I was the guy who figured out a way to get in and planted a charge and we blow it and we get in. So that school was about two months. It was amazing. I enjoyed it. Very difficult. While I went there, other guys go to sniper schools. Some go to comm school. It just depends on whatever school or whatever specific job you really want to be in. Is that kind of dependent on what the team needs at the time or is that dependent more on your ability, skills, your size, anything like that? Kind of all of that in the mix. What the team needs, each platoon and a seal team, there's about nine platoons. Each nine platoon has about 16 to 20 seals in each one. And depending on which platoon, you may need so many snipers, so many breachers, so many comms guys. And they'll send a certain amount of numbers out to these schools to get these qualifications. So when we deploy, we're set. Because you'll never deploy, an entire seal team never deploys together. Each platoon will go somewhere else. I've always been to Iraq when some platoons in Guam, some platoons in Africa, all over the world, you know, so. And so you need to be self-sufficient because you have what you have and that's it. And you don't have a short amount of men. So, yeah, with that. So I got a breacher. It was great. Then you come back together. Everybody come back together. And we started doing our work up. So now we're in California desert for a few months and we're working on our tactics, you know, calls. Everybody's getting the training from our lieutenants to our senior enlisted advisor guys. We're all getting training. We're all just learning what it's like. So that is like rigorous training for six months hard, nonstop. If you're married, kids, it's hard on them. Because you're in, you may come back home to Reorg and you're here for like a week, a week and a half and then you're gone again. You're gone again for like three weeks to a month and you come back again and you're gone the only home for a week. And so it just constantly goes on for about six, seven months. After that, you have about a month and a half, two months before of just sitting around, just kind of like getting used to your family, seeing your family, spending time with them. Deployments last about seven to nine months on average, depending on what's going on, depending on the area of the country you're going to. So you're gone again. And again, you may not have much abilities to reach out and talk to your families through email, phone, services and all that stuff because we really operate isolated from a lot of different things. When you come back from a deployment, NSW, Nikola Special Warfare, I want to say they're really good. We'll give you a time that relaxed with your family when you come back from deployment. Just go home, spend time with your family, your kids, get back to them. And even while you're gone, they have a lot of, we call them ombudsman, they have a lot of things. They try to like include your wives, kids, family members, girlfriends or whatever into what's going on, possibly overseas while you're gone. So they try to bring them in to kind of make them feel at ease at the same time. But they're still a pain, they're still a struggle. When it's time to work, we work in this nonstop. You'll be up all day, all night. We train harder than our deployments are meant to be because they want to put us in a position where if you face any kind of hardship or crazy, you know, chaotic situation on deployment, you've already seen it during training. So you already know you can defeat it. So we train harder than we deploy. And that's the main gist of it. We train to fail because you know if you've ever seen anything crazy as this, then you know you can overcome it. That's why our training is meant to beat you down. You're tired, you're exhausted. And that's what you want to be if you want to be a Navy sailor. You want to be a part of the Naval Special Warfare period. That's what you have to have if you want to be successful at it. That's why we really get at what we do. That's why the President calls us up when he needs a real mission to go down. Well, real quick before we finish, I'd like to touch back with you guys real quick after hearing everyone talk. If you guys could give us each a nugget of information to potential recruit a piece of advice or maybe something that you did wrong that you would say don't do this, we'll go ahead and start with you, Frank. My main piece of advice is just to have a willingness to struggle and suffer. It might not be as eloquent as some people would like, but that's really what it boils down to is you're in this line of work or you're trying to get in this line of work for a purpose and it takes a lot to get to that. So just be willing to put up with all of the struggle and the hardship that it takes in order to get on the other side and it'll all be worth it. Yeah, I know that it's coming down the pipe for you. Yeah, I got you. Chief Murray. The best advice I can give is to use our website. We have workouts. We have links to everything you need and we can offer a lot of information whether it be on the phone or in person, but that website is there and we have people that are standing by ready to help and we can't answer questions that we're not asked and all you have to do is log on that website, get interactive with the moderators that are on there and we'll get whatever information that you need to you. And if you want to plug that website real quick, go ahead. Okay, it's sealswik.com. Can you spell that out for us? S-E-A-L-S-W-C-C dot com. Nice. Sean, any last bits of advice you could give for us? I will say just get comfortable being uncomfortable. This job is, it comes with a huge, you know, you get a lot of significance from it. You know, a lot of you enjoy it, but you're going to do a lot of stuff that you're not comfortable with and you got to get used to being comfortable with that, doing stuff like that. And just do it. You know, don't overthink it. If you want to be a seal, if you want to be a swick, don't try to, you know, try to think you need to understand every single thing about what it needs, what it takes to be us, to be in our shoes to do the job. I don't think you need to be the most tip-top, shape guy in the world. Let it come to you. When you sign up for the program, just go into it. It's all about your mind. All about your mind. So if you want it bad enough, you'll finish it. Definitely be in shape, some kind of shape, but don't think you need to be, you know, the baddest person in the world. Just do it. Find out more at sealswik.com and join us again for the next NSW podcast.