 customer experience starts from the moment you first engage that customer. Welcome to the Smarter Building Materials Marketing podcast, helping you find better ways to grow leads, sales, and outperform your competition. All right, everybody, welcome to Smarter Building Materials Marketing, where we believe your online presence should be your best salesperson. I am Zach Williams, and we have a great show lined up for you today. We have Todd Miller, who's the president of Isaiah Industries. With us, Todd, welcome to the show. Hey, thank you so much. Glad to be here. So for our listeners, just give us a little bit of your background, how you got into this crazy world of building products, and tell us about Isaiah Industries. Yeah, that's a great question. So Isaiah Industries was actually started by my father. Like many of us, I wasn't necessarily born into the industry. I was already long in existence at that point, but kind of came into it through the family. So the company was started in 1980. We had started out by producing commercial metal roofing. Listeners have seen our products a zillion times on all those brightly colored roofs that dot the interstate system in our country. Pizza Hutts and Dairy Queens and IHOPs and 7-Elevens and all those. And that's what we were producing in the early 80s. We had acquired some product lines from Kaiser Aluminum. When I came into the company full time in the mid 80s, though, things were really shifting. That commercial business was obviously not always going to be there. So what I did was I went out and started spending time with a few folks scattered around the country who were selling this thing called residential metal roofing that was just kind of starting together some legs. I went out and spent a lot of time learning from them, learning what they did, and then trying to replicate contractors across the country doing similar work selling residential metal roofing. And long story short, because of so many great players in the industry, metal has gone from a market share of about 2% of the residential roofing industry back in the late 90s to the most recent numbers, 18%. So that is some stellar growth in such a huge industry as roofing. And it is firmly the number two player in the roofing industry now and continues to grow and continues to be on an upward trajectory. That's the first thing I thought of when you said you started the business in the 80s. I was like, man, was the metal roofing even a big, was there much market share there to be had? But it sounds like you got ahead of it, which is great. You're also the host of a podcast, The Construction Disruption. Sure. Yeah, we started our show about two years ago, Construction Disruption, and we kind of focus on trying to what I always call uncover the future of design, building and remodeling. So we're always trying to get guests on who talk about what trends they're seeing, what's in their crystal ball and what the future is going to bring for design and building and remodeling. And it's been a lot of fun. I'll tell you probably similar to what your experience has been Zach. I have learned so much from the guests that we've had just been amazing. Every show we have, I come away learning so much. So it's been a great experience. One thing you said to me, Todd, as we were prepping for the show, was you all view the customer experience as who starts with the manufacturer. Even if it doesn't support actual purchase, it goes through a dealer or a distributor or something like that. But you think it starts with the manufacturer, which I think is a really unique perspective. Can you talk about that a little bit and what do you mean? And secondarily, how does this actually apply in the real world? It's a great question. And I realize our company, because we're in kind of a niche market, we're not necessarily a name brand, we're not just out there being pushed through every distributor in existence, we have a little bit of a unique perspective. But I think in reality, there's a lot of building materials similar to ours that are kind of a little bit more niche and not quite as mainstream. So I know that for us, what we are heavily dependent upon is our online presence, bringing not contractors to us, not wholesalers, not distributors, but actual property owners to us. I mean, in our case, that's mainly residential, but it could be commercial too. And I had someone tell me, it was really interesting a while back and they said that they think the future in terms of lead generation in the home improvement industry has to focus on customer experience. And I think there's a lot to be said for that, but the problem is we often think of customer experience as being only that thing that happens after their customer, right? I mean, that's what the word is. But in reality, customer experience starts from the moment you first engage that customer. And that could be a manufacturer through their website. It could be a local contractor through their website. But whatever it is, we have to focus on that customer experience from the get-go. And that includes great work like your company does, helping people build great websites that connect with people and engage them and bring them in and then kind of set a plan for, you know, what does the future look like as they continue to learn about the product and decide where they're going to go with it. So I know for us, one of the ways that this is all manifest is we generate a lot of consumer leads through our website. I mean, thousands and thousands every year. And we try to pay attention to every one of those personally. And we want to get them asking personal individualized questions as early on as they can. And I mean, you know, we do the typical stuff. I mean, they go through a drip campaign for marketing automation and so forth. But what we really are always driving toward is that personal interaction. And, you know, that's where I think any company that is knowledgeable of not only their own products, but of the industry can really shine is by engaging that property owner or maybe it's a design professional also. I mean, those architects that we all want to connect with all the time and find so difficult to connect with sometimes. But, you know, the quicker you can get them engaged and get them asking questions and then you delivering great information to them. I mean, as the book title out there, they ask you answer. I mean, you know, you'll want to get them engaged in that sort of relationship so that you become sort of their trusted guide to their own story, to figuring out what is, in our case, the best roofing material for them in their home. I don't care if it ends up not being our product. If we can play a role in helping them discover what is best for them, then we've been successful and we've created a good experience for them, not just for our company, but I hope for the entire roofing industry. That would be a good thing at least. I think that's a really smart perspective because so many people are focused on only the customers they can win in helping them. But if you can say, hey, I'm not the right fit for you in this scenario, this is a scenario where I am the right fit, the trust level immediately goes to the roof. You obviously don't want to sell to somebody who's not going to be a successful customer. The other thing you said I think it's really important is, as technology has progressed, the customer experience has gone further and further upstream, closer to the manufacturer or the originator. It used to be customer experience was really just in the store, that's where the experience started, maybe a little bit of like what you saw in advertising, but now it's like, hey, how hard was it to find you? Yes. If I can't find you, it's a difficult experience. If when I find you, I can't get information, I have a difficult time getting the facts, pricing, whatever it might be, all of that adds to the customer experience and that translates to, frankly, how well do you know me as a prospect? The customer might not say like, oh, I don't think the customer experience is good, but they'll say it with the amount of time they spend on your site. I mean, one of the best examples I can think of is Zillow versus Realtor.com. Like most people say they like Zillow more and they're like, I don't know, it just feels better. Why do you use Airbnb over VRBO or one or the other? One just feels better. It's hard to articulate, but it translates to dollars. Yeah. And so if you've got the best experience, which is online, which is being found, which is the different parts of your marketing or whatever it is, that's going to translate all the way downstream to the actual purchase and then post-purchase because you're setting the precedent for what the success and a high quality experience look like. I love that. And yeah, and you're right. I mean, that feeling is oftentimes what keeps us going back to someplace and it is that experience. So I'll just give a real quick example and this might resonate with some of your other listeners. So as you mentioned, we're a manufacturer of metal roofing. Well, we tend to specialize in specialty products. So when you think of metal roofing, normally what you think of or if a consumer goes and Google, hey, how do I get a metal roof for my house? They're probably thinking the metal roofs that they've seen that look like maybe corrugated roofing or they look like they're on a commercial building. And we produce a little bit of that, but our focus really is more on specialty products, metal roofs that look like slate or cedar shake or more traditional roofing materials. So here's the thing that I'm always telling the companies that sell our products, they may focus on our products, but I'm like front and center on your website, you have got to have an image of what looks like a metal roof that they're expecting to see because otherwise, if they've Googled metal roofs in my area and they get to your website and they see nothing that looks like a metal roof to them, well, we know what happens. They're out of there very quickly. And so it's an odd idea because you're actually maybe showing partly the product you don't even sell much of, but that's what you do because you've got to bring them into your website and you've got to create that experience with them that one way or another, these folks can give me what I need and they can answer my questions. You said something that I think is important, which is give them what they want so you can sell them what they need. So you show them, hey, here's the metal roof and oh, by the way, we have all these other products. Right. One of the questions I was going to ask you is how do you all differentiate in a crowded marketplace? If I think about metal roofing, there's definitely a performance component to it, but it sounds like one thing that you do, Todd, to separate yourself is your experience and that comes down to traffic, comes in acquisition, showing different ways the product can be used. How do you think about experience in terms of differentiation against competitors? You never know exactly what your competitors may be doing out there. And so at the end of the day, you really can just focus on what you think is best for your company in terms of delivering the right experience to your customers and your prospects. But I do think that prospects and property owners will resonate toward that company that truly engages with them and answers their questions. I mean, how many times do you send off an email to a large company and say, hey, I want to know this about your product and in your gut you're thinking they're never going to respond? And in reality, what happens? They never respond. And so sometimes just showing up is half the battle. But regardless, if you can quickly show them that you've got this concept down of they ask and you answer, so they ask a very personal question about their need, you give them a very honest, open, transparent response. I think that's how you help to develop trust and you help them get them to thinking, okay, I like these guys. These are the guys I'd like to work with. These are the guys I could trust to provide building materials for my house or whatever that might be. Yeah, that's so interesting because one thing we talk a lot about is how the product is now the back end offer where it used to be the front end. So so much of what we buy is, do I trust that person? Do I like how I felt talking to them? Was their site used? Like the decision gets made further and further upstream all these intangible parts of the business. Although it's important, it's not the singular most important thing. And as soon as you recognize that the more successful your business is going to be. So for example, I was talking to a manufacturer we work with. We run their advertising for them and they do very well. We run their advertising and it's very successful. And they asked me recently, they're like, hey, so what are we not doing that we should be doing? I was like, well, as a performing well, you're getting leads. But I was like, I think you're leaving money on the table because your site is difficult to use and we don't have control over that. That's something their IT TMC. It's like I improve speed improve ease of access information. And I think you're going to see your lead volume might not increase, but your close rate will because you're leaving frustration off the table. You're removing frustration and friction off the table and making it easier for the person to convert, which will translate to ultimately more sales and revenue. Makes a lot of sense. You got to focus on what's going to be a good experience for that customer because it is so easy for them to discount you and go on to the next guy. Todd, is there a common issue you see in the industry that happens that manufacturers overlook in reference to how they market or position or even the experience of working with the brand? You mentioned response times is one thing. What are the things that you see that are common issues? One of the things, and I don't know if this is so much an issues act as it is just an observation. So we often want to think of ourselves as, you know, hey, I produce great products. I meet the needs of everyone out there that comes my way. But the reality is for that consumer, even though we know sitting in our chair, give or take, I mean, all of us have a lot of similarities. But for that individual consumer, nothing means more to them than their house and they see it as extremely unique. And you have to treat them for the uniqueness of them in regards to how they think of their own home. So I think one of the things I see people taking is sort of a mass marketing mentality. And yet I think one of the beauties of the internet and our websites and our digital presence is our ability to really hone in on individual prospects with a laser like focus and make them personal touch where they are cared about as individuals and not just another customer you're filtering through. Todd, this has been an awesome interview. If someone wants to connect with you or reach out, what's the best way for them to do that? Yeah, I really am pretty active on LinkedIn. So Todd Miller, metal roofing, will find me on LinkedIn. I also have an educational website asktodmiller.com and probably the easiest way to email me is Todd at asktodmiller.com. Love to engage with people. I love this stuff. So the more ability and chances I have the opportunity to talk about it, I'm a happy guy. They should also check out your website, Isaiah Industries, as well if they want to. IsaiahIndustries.com. And then from there, you can branch on to our various brand websites. So we manufacture actually three brands of metal roofing, classic metal roofing, Castle and Irons and also green American home. So you can reach all the branded sites through the corporate Isaiah site as well. Todd, man, thank you again so much for coming on the show. And for our listeners, if you enjoyed this episode, check us out at Benvio.com slash podcast to subscribe and get more. Until next time, I'm Zach Williams. Thanks everybody.