 Mr President, participants in the panel discussion, ladies and gentlemen, I am very happy to have so many people in the audience participating and showing their interest in the exciting discussions that we are going to be having today. Welcome to our panel discussion in the Open Forum, and I would also like to welcome our panelists, the President of the Federal Council, Mr. Schneider Amann, as well as the Swiss Life Group, Mr. Sergio Emotti from the UBSA Group, as well as the Mr. Spieshofer, who is President-Chief Executive, also of ABB. I'm very happy to have this panel discussion with you, and we're going to be talking about is the Swiss model under threat. It sounds quite negative in English, but as tied in the world optimist, I'd like to formulate this in more positive terms. In other words, how can we continue to shape or secure the Swiss model for the future? Now, according to World Studies, Switzerland is one of the most creative, innovative and competitive societies in the world. We want to defend that position in spite of the fact that Switzerland is an expensive country, in spite of the fact that we have a limitation on immigration, and also in spite of the fact that we are perhaps not going to be able to participate in the EU 2020 research program. Now, you have been in Brussels. You are also dealing with the food initiative over the younger socialists, and in the industry, you're saying that a lot of jobs are going to be lost in industry. At the same time, you come from the Swiss Innovation Park. You've opened the Swiss Innovation Park. Let me just say whether you're optimistic or not. In your year as President, are you optimistic or not? Thank you, Mrs. Magwalder. Ladies and gentlemen, I started the year on an optimistic footing, and not only because I'm President of Switzerland. You can assume, of course, that I wouldn't come to Davos and say that we're not able to meet the difficult challenges that lie ahead, and give you the impression that we would have problems. Whenever we look at what we're doing compared to other countries, we're doing very well. We've got unemployment 3%. Because unemployment is low, and if you look at elderly unemployment, it's also low. We've got 84% people in gainful employment, which is 30% above the OECD average. So really, it is a very good starting position. You mentioned the fact that Alstom has announced a massive cutback in the head account. Of course, the economy changes. We need to adapt. Structures need to be adapted, and we've got to be able to prepare ourselves for the next growth phase. Yesterday, I was talking to the GE management, and we rediscussed this, yes. I said to the GE management, in this country, in Switzerland, we don't have an industrial policy. I'm not going to go along with that, but in this country, we have the best level of education. Vocational training also is excellent. We have a social partnership here. We have good industrial relations, which is unparalleled. We also have a liberal market regulation, which is good for people to invest here, and we want to create the jobs in Switzerland in this favorable environment. So no industrial policy, but we do create framework conditions, which are excellent. As for the other comment that you've made, what about my position in Brussels now? Some may be interested in this. We have three challenges facing the federal government at the moment. The first challenge is how are we going to deal with our relationship with the EU? Two-thirds of exports go to the EU, three-quarters of our imports come from the EU, so every second job here in Switzerland depends directly or indirectly on our relationship with the European Union. We are on the way of looking for solutions. We are also looking at ways of implementing Article 101A. That was the result of a referendum that was approved in 2014, which called for a quota and contingent on the number of immigrants that Switzerland is prepared to take. We're trying to see how we can reconcile that with the requirements of the EU. We know that we have to find a solution. The partners in the EU are saying that they want a solution, but there is no Brexit to discussion, of course, with us, and we don't have, of course, a particular timetable. But I am confident. I'm confident, particularly, that in the next few weeks, months, perhaps, we will be able to find some solutions to the problems. We want to be associated to the scientific and research programme of the EU. That's important for us, because we want to have the best research talents. We don't want them simply moving away, and I think that this is a contribution also to a well-structured Europe, when scientists can come together so that projects, so that products, processes which derive from this, are going to remain competitive, make Europe more competitive, which will, in turn, create jobs, and we know that in Europe there are enormous unemployment problems, of course, outside Switzerland. Second challenge is the value of the Swiss franc, and all the consequences of that. We've got to be very, very careful in this area. Perhaps I'll come back to this later on, and the third challenge we face is migration, and the big migratory flows through Europe and the reactions in the different countries, and the consequences that may, of course, impact Switzerland. We have remained relatively unscathed for the time being. Of course, we are alert, and we know we have to be able to react if necessary, particularly if the flow of refugees were to increase, and people were to come to Switzerland. The federal government knows what needs to be done. We know where we want to go. We have a very uniform position in the government. That disappoints the media, because we don't have a lot of controversy amongst the members of the government, and I think that we are looking for solutions. So that's my introductory comment. Thank you, Mr. Spies. ABB is a traditional company here, and you've been producing in Switzerland for a long time. Now, I think that the President is worried about the attractiveness of Switzerland as a place to do business or a place for industry. What are the factors which will influence you in maintaining jobs in Switzerland? Well, first of all, thank you very much for inviting me to participate in this discussion. If you look at what made Switzerland so strong, you have a country which doesn't have natural resources, but which has fantastic people. In Switzerland, we like being in Switzerland. We want to stay in Switzerland because we've got very good framework conditions so that people can do excellent jobs. We have reliable, predictable economic roles, and I think that we need to do everything possible to ensure that this predictability and reliability can be maintained. And as an entrepreneur, I can take decisions based on that. Secondly, it is important that in our training, we need to invest much more so that we train people so that they remain competitive internationally and can be successful. And I am talking about all levels of education, not just universities, which is often referred to, but the dual system, that is, the apprenticeship system. We have discussed this with the Americans. They'd like to be able to copy our apprenticeship training. And I think we should do more to benefit from this. As for our schools, we've got to increase the quality, starting with not removing resources from secondary schools. We've got to make sure that we can continue to get well-trained people coming out of our schools. But it's not just people working in Switzerland. We also work internationally, and if we are to work internationally, we need experience from different countries and bring that together. We have 1,200 people in Dechville, 60 different nationalities working there. And we have different experiences as a result of that, and that is important in order to have competitive products, which we can then export from Switzerland. And if we have too narrow interpretation of the immigration policy, it could be very dangerous for us. We need to have a very good international team here. We also need to work with universities. We have a good relationship with the Federal School of Technology. And that's important if you want to be able to do research and bring good products. If you look at the kind of products which are being exported abroad, and if you look at railway technology, if you travel between Zug and Davos, you can see that nearly all the locomotives have ABB technology. And it really is a competitive product which has been developed in Switzerland, manufactured here, exported then. So if we do things right, we have a lot of chances. We need reliability, we need predictability, we need to have people who are well trained, well educated, who have good conditions here. And then we will continue to remain competitive in Switzerland as we have been in the past. This year we will be celebrating 150 years of our existence in Switzerland. We're very proud of this. We've got 6,500 employees in Switzerland who have done a brilliant job over the last few years. They've dealt with very difficult problems such as the strong Swiss franc, and I'm very proud of what we've achieved. And I'm sure that we will be able to continue to develop in Switzerland. Thank you. Mr. Gutseler, you are the President of the ETH in Zurich, which is one of the most important technology universities outside the Anglo-Saxon world. What is the key factor for you so that Switzerland can remain one of the most innovative countries worldwide? And how important is it for Switzerland to remain in the Horizon 2020 research program? Well, first of all, let me just say for the second question, Horizon 2020 is very important. It's not the only point which can ensure quality, but if we're not in Horizon 2020, we're going to have massive disadvantages vis-à-vis our competitors. And the word competitors needs to be really defined. We have to be aware of the fact that today we have a worldwide competition for talent, for ideas, for jobs, for capital. And Switzerland, in the past, really did a very, very good job, was extremely competitive, and we've got to do that in the future. So that is the answer to your question, number one, what we need to do in order to continue to remain successful. We've got to understand that our wealth is not God-given, that our rich is not something that we take from the ground as if it was oil. The wealth of Switzerland is produced through intelligent people who worked very hard and who have been very entrepreneurial. That is quite simply our recipe for success, but there is always a danger when you are successful that you forget where the success comes from, that you tend to be perhaps too quick to rest on your laurels. And that is why I'm happy that we're really meeting in a school building. It is a message to the young and active generation. Let us not forget where our success comes from. And I think it is important that we are able to be performing, high performing. It may not be a politically correct word, but performance is important. We've got to be able to attract talent, that we nurture our domestic talent, because talents are attracted where talent is already established. That is a principle. The positive spiral is something you need to bear in mind. If you've got good people, then other people will be attracted, but if you lose good people, a lot of other people will follow them. So it's quite difficult to go up the mountain, but it's very quick to go down the mountain. And if you want to avoid that, you've really got to be aware of all these things. You've got to have a regulatory framework, we've got to have resources, and we've got to have a position in a system where we say we want to ensure that our technology, we want to ensure that we can create prosperity, we wanted to create jobs as our federal president keeps on saying, because we want people to be prosperous here. And that is important, and the only way we can do that is if we roll up our sleeves and do the work like our forefathers did. Now, the markets are very volatile, and Mr. Amati, this is affected Switzerland. The larger banks have been subject to a lot of regulations, and then there is also exchange of information with other countries. What is important to secure the future of Switzerland? I think one can say that all these challenges that affect Switzerland as a financial center, we have managed to master many of these challenges. We have been a very important international player, and what happened in Switzerland quite simply is that we were hit by a complicated cocktail of problems, some external, some internal. I think that we are well positioned to today. We have a very liberal conditions, we have political stability, and we also have a bit of an excessive capacity in the financial system, which has now been reduced. Unfortunately, some work still needs to be done in terms of capacity in Asia and in America and in London, and we have seen that competition has grown. Asia is now as strong and as competitive as Switzerland is. Now, we are well positioned, quite simply, because we have got not only good framework conditions, but we also are able to provide quality. On the subject of education and attracting talent to Switzerland, that is a central issue for us, but I would also like to add that there is something that is even more important, and that is further training, not initial training. Today, we can speak about education, but that is not enough. We are talking about the stills, which are necessary to continue to improve so that we can continue to conquer market share, and we can only do that through improving quality, and we can do that through further education. We have also got to bear in mind that the challenges of facing, particularly as we are on the eve of the fourth industrial revolution, is not just something which represents a challenge, it is also something which is a great opportunity for us, too. We are extremely well positioned. What we need, well, we need the framework conditions to remain stable. We heard the figures on unemployment, and we know that we are in a very good situation, particularly relative to our immediate neighbors. But for us, that is not the right comparison. Our competition does not come from Europe only, it is a global competition we are exposed to, and that is why we have to be very careful. We have to make sure that the political stability is not jeopardized, and that the framework conditions continue to remain stable. We have got to remain competitive, and we also need to have meaningful, useful regulations, not only the regulations affecting banks, but also those affecting the industry. We have a lot of bureaucracy, and we keep on getting more and more laws being created, instead of other laws simply being removed. And we also need to have more planning security. But I am very optimistic. I think that we will be able to continue to be a strong financial center, and that we will not only be able to contribute to the GDP of Switzerland, but I think that you've got to also think of the fact that finance is the locomotive of an economy. We were successful in Switzerland, generally speaking, with smaller and larger companies. Why? Because there was a very strong financial center, which backed everything up, and which made available a capital. This is something that we need to continue. Professor Zeller is saying quite rightly that this is not something that is God-given. We had to work harder for this, and the competition is not sleeping. Thank you. Political stability has been mentioned, Mr. Dirk. In Switzerland, we've had a number of initiatives that have been presented to the people, which have an impact on the successor model. Just think of the Minerate or the Minder Initiative, or the Second Home Initiative. And there are other initiatives in the pipeline. For example, a question of having a green economy or a minimum income initiative. These are all things which represent a challenge for Switzerland in the future. Thank you. Now, I'm not a politician, of course, but Mrs. Markwald, I think we may have a lot of initiatives and referenda in Switzerland, but we should never forget that we have a system based on direct democracy and federalism, and that is a key to our success. And I think a lot of people in different parts of the world really envy us, our democratic system. This initiative, these initiatives and the discussion with us as citizens, as voting people in Switzerland give us a voice in politics and in the economy. It also is a valve which allows people to express their concerns, and these concerns can then be taken on board by the politicians. And I think that's one of our strengths. You end up with a good balance decision between political requirements and social and business requirements. I believe that this has made us very strong in the past, and it will continue to be the glue that brings us together in the future. I think that this is what gives us our backing from society. And that is the fundamental here in Switzerland, which economic strength has been built. But to answer your question more specifically, the biggest changes for the successful model in Switzerland are we ourselves. Perhaps I could tell you exactly what I have experienced at the World Economic Forum, and the way that people from other countries or from other global companies, the way they have presented their companies here in Devils. I think that we should perhaps forget our inherent modesty. We've got to sort of step out from the shadows and do something to trumpet our own successes. We have so many strengths, and I think we need to build on those strengths and be aware of those strengths and share those views with others. Now, you probably know that we have an analysis of the competitiveness of the different countries, and we are the most attractive land for the seventh year running in the world. And with the ADECO Group, in cooperation with INSEAD Business School, we have been looking at the global indicators for the attractiveness of talent, and we are still, perhaps the trend is declining somewhat, but we are number one when it comes to the attractiveness for talent from abroad. And I just to tie in what the President was saying, I think that we've got a fighter for that talent. We've got to rely on and build on our strengths, and I think we should be a bit prouder of what we've achieved. Now, I am very optimistic. I'm optimistic about the future for Switzerland. I think that we can be confident. I think we can be proud. I think that the Swiss cross is really a symbol of our success. So a lot of optimism from our panelists at the beginning of this year, but they see a number of challenges on the horizon. Can I ask the participants here, if they want to participate in the discussion, this the auditorium has a possibility of asking panacea questions. Who would like to ask the first question? I have a question on regulation in Switzerland. I get the feeling there is increasing regulation all the time, and this may endanger the business model in Switzerland. I would like to know the opinion for CEOs and entrepreneurs, what it means to them for Swiss business in general, and what can be done against increasing regulation. Would you like to address the question to everyone or to a particular person? Well, preferably, I would like to hear from Mr. Speeshofer and Mr. Ermotti from their entrepreneurial point of views. My fear is that as a result of increasing regulation, there may be less investment in Switzerland, and I would like to know what entrepreneurs think about that. Mr. Speeshofer, well, thank you very much for this question, because it's really an issue that is of concern to us, and we have a round table between politicians and entrepreneurs and often talk about this subject. I think we need to pay attention to the underlying conditions that are really good and that have been a successful foundation for 100 years. We have to make sure that the underlying conditions will not become constrained. Entrepreneurs require oxygen to breathe, air to breathe, and we have to make sure that we do not make life difficult for them. Give you a few examples. We've got a code of conduct at ABB, which is very strict based on global regulations and global rules, so it's a piece of self-regulation. I don't need a corporate initiative on top of that where Mr. Schneideramann has to create an agency that monitors everything, and I have to create jobs of people reporting about this. That will be no use. That will not help competitiveness. So we have to pay attention to what is really generating competitiveness. Of course, there are good pieces of regulation which we like to comply with, and there are a few countries that have adopted a basic principle, a simple principle. It's called one in, one out. In other words, if there is a new piece of regulation, another one will have to go to make life, not make life more complex. We talked about this yesterday at the round table. That will be one approach, making sure that we do not overdo it and that we maintain reasonable entrepreneurial freedom. Mr. Amati, about regulation or over-regulation, well, I'm not going to repeat what Mr. Spieshofer has already said. I think it would be very good if it had only been your feeling that regulation was a concern, but it's a reality as a matter of fact. It's clear that we're investing a lot of money today in the past, in championing the past, mastering the past. It is assumed that the problems, the challenges will remain the same as in the past, so a lot of money is spent about solving the problems and not enough to do new things. Of course, the number of pieces of regulations is based on experience and perhaps a trend towards increasing international regulation coming to Switzerland, which is not necessarily required, which will only dilute our competitive positions. So I would also welcome this concept of one in, one out, one piece of regulation coming in and one having to go at the same time and decreasing the number of interventions in the state in our liberal underlying conditions to the minimum possible. Mr. Durek, well, I can only go along with the previous speakers. We have realized that the future is about innovation, automation, digitization, robotics, and seeing at work. You can have your opinion about the Americans, but how they have successfully managed the crisis fastest and most effectively. I would like to refer to the power of regeneration and tell you an anecdote about this, which goes to show that what we should not do. There was a colleague who said, look, a good idea, a good piece of innovation. An American would say, well, let's turn it into a huge success. Whereas the Chinese would say, let's copy it immediately. And the Europeans will say, let's introduce regulation. So we should remain champions of our own fate because in the international context, we are still faced with very flexible underlying conditions in Switzerland. We need to preserve and maintain them and decrease regulation to the extent possible rather than keep building them up. The question of regulation and bureaucracy, red tape, of course, is primarily addressed to politicians. There are certain ideas such as introducing a commission to control regulations of sunset clauses for laws which may cause problems from the point of legal security, legal certainty. What are politicians doing about over-regulation, Mr. President? Well, of course, at heart, I am an entrepreneur. So the three previous speakers have spoken my mind. Currently, per week, we have an additional 140 pages of regulations that are being created. Just to give you an idea, less regulation means more freedom. More freedom means people having to take on more responsibility, not only person responsibility, but responsibility for the community. And if we can manage to bring back the atmosphere, the climate to one based on trust, because everything is focused on the common good, then we will certainly be able to reduce red tape here or there. It's extremely difficult, I can tell you. I've been one of those who've been demanding this all the time. Now I have to deliver, and it's very difficult to deliver, but I'll give you an example, which is an encouraging one. We have an agricultural agency, and of course we need to preserve agriculture. In this country, to this agency, I said about a year ago, show me all the texts of ordinances that can be dropped that were drafted at one point and had to produce an effect at one point, but are no longer up to date now. So I've received about 100 of those ordinances that we can easily drop. 12 of them are important, government has dealt with six of them, and we'll deal soon with the balance of them. We've created a little more space for entrepreneurship in this sector of agriculture. We need to work together and make sure that, well, we commit as few mistakes as possible, create as little distrust as possible, and we have to make sure that when something happens, we do not take this as a cause for introducing new regulation across the board. It's a reflex, it's a spontaneous reaction that politicians usually have, but every politician have to find their own ways to perhaps do without that, to renounce on that. Of course, the papers may then write about you that you're not doing anything, but it doesn't mean that you're doing the best thing, creating as many pages of paper as possible. So I will help along and it's difficult. There's no illusion about this, but I'm grateful for everyone who helps us to make sure that we do not introduce too much red tape. And my final remark at this point is that the European Union creates about 10 times as many regulations, 1,400 pages per week of ordinances and regulations and directors. If that was a piece of consolation, it would be all too simple. Well, so let's talk about self-regulation and what the business world is doing. We're talking about a revision of the law and gender parity and equal pay, enforcing equal pay, or we have a debate on female quota in the company law, but do we have to have a failure of self-regulation for things to be done, Mr. Dury? No, on the contrary. I am an advocate of maintaining as much freedom as possible and it's the state's regulator's job to create a framework that provides as much flexibility as possible. So specifically with our companies, such as Edeco and Swiss Life, I have a clear conscience as far as equal pay is concerned among men and women, less so about the promotion of women, although at Edeco, globally, we have about 63% of women at management level. The share is only 23%, it's the other way around at Swiss Life, about 60% men and at least 31% of women at management level, but I'm against quota because that is regulation, unnecessary regulation which introduces unnecessary shackles. And I think the business world, well, if the state gives us room to solve our problems, we are more flexible, we are faster than any regulator and we know our business better than a regulator could know our business. And finally, it all comes down to what the federal president, Mr. Amar Schneider-Raman, said it comes down to trust in people, trust in each other. People say that it's an expression of distrust to the business world if we have too much regulation and that cannot be because all of us share the same objective. We want to make this country as successful as possible. And if we as leaders, company leaders do not obtain your trust anymore, then it's not really pleasant to keep working and secondly, we will only be waiting for the next piece of regulation and we'll only be administrators. We will lose any power of innovation which will not get us ahead. The business is not growing and jobs will be lost and nobody, none of us wants to have that. Let's have the next question from the lady over there. Wait for the microphone please. Susanne Miller, my question relates to regulation that Switzerland is submitted to from external sources. A lot of regulation comes from America and Mr. Durick, you said we can be proud of ourselves and my question of course is how proud can we be if there is regulation in the banking sector or FIFA about FIFA that is initiated in other countries and I would like to hear your position about this. Mr. Amati, any position on extraterritorial regulations such as FATCA, the American peace regulation that we simply implement? Well, I think we would have to turn left. This is more of a political subject. Of course, extraterritorial, extraterritoriality is a big challenge but it's really a political one and I'm not a politician so I'm not the person to give the answer, looking over to the left. As far as European regulation is concerned there is a nice concept called autonomous implementation but it's also meant to dismantle obstacles to market activities. Next question please. Reinhard Kösinger from Bavaria. I have a question to the Swiss federal president about migration, the hottest subject at European level. How can Switzerland be an island, remain an island of the happy people for the next 10 years as far as this issue is concerned? Thank you for this question, it is not our objective to simply remain an island and remain isolated in this regard. As far as welcoming refugees from Syria is concerned, a few months ago we made an offer, submitted an offer to Brussels voluntarily a number of months ago and said we welcome fleeing people provisionally and we'll help them on and the German federal president Mr Gauck whom I met yesterday said first thing when meeting me he was thanking us. Now Switzerland as a non-EU member took the initiative when it came to champion or trying to champion this tragedy Well I think I said most of what's to be said we cannot shy away or shun the challenge and federal government's policy includes two components basically those whose lives are threatened will receive protection are entitled to receive protection this is based on an international convention economic migrants is a different matter you need a fast response there we need to help people to return as fast as possible to where they may not be able to make a living for the time being and then the second component is that you will have to provide help where the problems arise and the Swiss government in October or November last year paid 50 to 60 million Swiss francs to be used by aid agencies in Syria and other places on site because that's where the problems will have to be solved and investing one franc in Syria creates much bigger effect for those affected than that franc would produce here if so it's a question of solidarity it's a continental issue and we're not shunning the question we are making our contribution and I said it before at least the third most important issue the Swiss government is faced with today's migration it's a sad fact that currently so many people more people than ever since World War two are fleeing from their country and Europe is heavily affected by it but at the same time we've got major migration inside businesses and we heard from Mr Goodzella before how important it is to attract talent Mr Goodzella how can we strike a good balance between drawing good talent and also showing solidarity with people in distress and some of whom are talented as well well that's one of the very big and difficult questions and I'll be happy to pass on this hot potato to my left hand side in a minute well that's what we call cooperation don't we of course all people in the world present an enormous pool of talent and we rely on being able to tap into this pool of talent and to draw the most talented one to Switzerland but you have to be clear that we do not simply require talent only we also need training basic and vocational training and and if that is not there it's difficult at ETH the Federal Institute for Technology we are debating about whether to lower standards whether to provisionally welcome migrants and refugees and in terms of emotions I do understand this it's a human response we are all empathic human beings but I have responsibility to bear and the responsibility is to preserve excellent quality of ETH graduates we've got to produce performance and stay at the highest level of education and of course you need to have certain preconditions for that that is a predicament what am I going to do but of course I'm being paid for the coping with predicaments so I have no final question to the answer Mrs. Mark Wilder it's one of the big issues one of the big challenges where we have to say well we have a problem there we need to look at it we need to try and look at people come to us and try and give them an opportunity get them ready as possible as quickly as possible of course language skills are a major issue but it's not going to be easy there are no quick fix solutions well I'll try to support Mr. Goodzela I don't know whether I'll succeed but I think we have to distinguish between two things qualified workers that were lacking both in Switzerland and in Europe that's a fact and I'll talk about that in more detail later and then on the other hand we've got the humanitarian strategy that is taking place and the migration flows that we're seeing globally what we need and that is also related to regulation and decisions by our government is important for us to remain competitive in order to have the qualified talent in Switzerland to stay ahead in Switzerland we have the dual educational system which is a tremendous asset we've got 42 million workers in Europe out of which 20 million are jobless nevertheless there are two and a half million of jobs in Europe that cannot be filled by qualified staff in Switzerland we have a lower unemployment rate than in the European average we have a unemployment rate of about five percent 220 000 persons it's a strategy for them of course but we don't have 10 percent of vacant jobs we only have five percent vacant jobs that we cannot fill in Switzerland but that's also about 10 000 jobs that need to be filled and that we need urgently and this has got nothing to do with migration or freedom of movement of persons in Europe the reason for it is that we have we would need a more controlled freedom of movement globally the quota for specific talents would have to be increased in order to fill these vacant jobs having said that we definitely have to continue to invest in this dual educational system and what I said before we have to focus on those jobs that we will need in order to be successful in particular mathematicians IT specialists technologists engineers but then also of course the crafts craftsmen that will be successful in the future as well probably not in the same occupations but other crafts that are in great need and maybe as Bert Kappler said it in an essay we will not have what we called the butterfly jobs I think this is where we could save money and we should rather focus on those occupations that we will actually need in the future that may have been a provocative statement but sometimes you have to be provocative that's a question here have a question about education a general question over the past few months we've read that there's a move to save in education but you said that education is one of our great assets in Switzerland now I would like to hear from you how and where you would want to save because I'm studying to become a teacher primary teacher and if you wish to save in terms of a promotion of high or low performance children I wonder whether we are not really doing something counterproductive and end up having a dual class system with a major difference opening up who wishes to speak first of all the politicians and Mr. Godzilla well I'm now talking to you not as a federal president but as a minister of education education has top priority in our policy that is absolutely clear in our discussions at the governmental level now we are planning for the years 2070 through 2020 for education there will be savings but the education expenditure will grow by two to three percent after savings it's not going to be the six percent per year that we were able to afford over the past few years I have to admit that so we're not going to grow that much just two percent and assuming that we have almost no inflation so it's really gross two percent and we can grow and many other countries cannot do that now I'm talking about the federal level not the cantor level but we will also see to it that we will encourage cantons not to save in education you've raised a difficult point you know saving in one area and not saving in another area and we have really thought hard about this in government we've asked for contributions in education agriculture in international cooperation also in infrastructure we simply have to save and in order for you to understand let me state the following if we want to have a balanced budget a balanced federal budget this will be a very important locational factor to attract companies or to keep companies here because they can assume as long as the budgets are balanced this country is not going to increase taxes in the future in other words if the private companies stay here if private companies come to switzerland because we have a balanced budget in this country then it's the private players that will invest in further education mr amati spoke about that already so it's not just a governmental spending that is important it's also private spending mr gusella mr amati and mr speshofer thank you very much for wanting to speak on education well i'm interested in financing of course of education i agree with what my boss just said education was supported as a priority by society and politics not just education also research and innovation because education as such is of course of value and has an end in itself and makes sense but from an economic point of view education will have to have an end an objective that's research innovation jobs welfare wealth and growth the future looks less rosy and that's not that good of course it's true our direct neighbors may be less well positioned than we are but i'd like to tie on what my colleague to my right set we have to look at the world and the web is a wonderful opportunity to take a look at the world now i just spoke to my colleague of the best universities of singapore and they decided to move from 16 billion to 19 billion singapore dollars in the next five years globally this means that the good universities the good sites and locations are aware that education research and innovation is the germ of growth so i would appeal to politicians to uh businessmen not to neglect this and of course we need a balanced budget i do agree we should never forget about the future preserving the past is one thing it would also make sense perhaps to be a bit more conservative there and invest more into the future mr amati well i must say it's exactly the other way around we invest more we're not reducing our educational spend we have 1800 apprentices at ubs now school leavers trainees and university graduates we've got 185 000 modules um for further education for our staff either it's personal banking uh private banking investment banking whatever you do you have to go through a permanent educational process in our bank and you have to be certified and we really invest massively in this and um referring now to diversity and workforce it's also a topic for us mr amati's microphone is not working anymore we also have to make sure that we identify and retain female talent in the bank and um this is why we uh want to promote flexible working hours and also increasingly how can we bring back former colleagues that used to work for us or used to work for our competitors how could they be re attracted re-entry programs for talents that have not been in business for a longer time so in our case it's exactly the opposite it's not just the right thing for society it is absolutely necessary for us because otherwise we will never have quality without this education almost 10 percent of um our staff in switzerland are in a full-time educational process so this goes to show that um education is not just a job for government but in the dual educational system private sector plays an important role as well mr spacehofer you wanted to comment on that let me relate um education to management well as a company we decided to keep um r and d expenditure stable or even increase it despite the financial crisis and we are now harvesting the fruit of that we're well positioned and this is also what the government should say the money we are saving now in education will be having a negative effect in the future and of course it's normal to have a balanced budget that is true but our approach is a little different maybe we could think about that if you want to increase in one area you have to reduce in another area in divorce we are speaking a lot about the fourth industrial revolution about digitalization and if we look at the administration and the number of persons working and in administration maybe we could um become more efficient there with uh modern uh software modern processes maybe more technology to make sure that we can release resources in order to be able to invest in education i.e the future of switzerland of course uh i'm happy to talk about what we are doing we've got the white color productivity program where we look at um our administrative side and we have identified efficiency enhancement potential and this is where we are saving and we put it in r and d and this is something that the governmental administration should look at now there's a lot of money spent on administration maybe we could cut down on that and be more modern with technology and then on the other increase the educational spend my son goes to college in syrik i'm talking to the headmaster there the principal and he wants to make sure that his students will have good schooling but it would be really negative if we saved on schools you refer to the fourth industrial revolution but there's a question here okay you can ask the question now here i have two questions first question is to mr space for space offer uh i because i also working for about the in electronics for about over 15 years here i have a proposal and the solution for the linear mine like robot based on in electronics innovation and the artificial intelligence so i want to ask you uh can i have a chance uh because i have no no money no solution and even no job so i want to ask you can i have a chance to talk with you in the details about about the project yeah and the second second question is uh for mr space offer and the mr student and uh um um yeah the question is about the science against democracy you know uh the ab company is expected on the uh robot and i iot sp and they uh and also driving force for the first generation uh the industrial revolution you know uh they the robot technology that means robot technology they were doing lots of a job instead of a human being that that means uh lots of human they were lots of jobs they they they were you you do you you don't need to do nothing they were doing for you so let's let's let's look at the china they have lots of uh migration workers thank you very much thank you very much we have to stay a little bit short thank you very much but you just introduced our last issue the force in the industrial revolution and i'd like to hand back over to our panelists to come in on that to speak about the opportunities and the risks of the fourth industrial revolution mr space offer please first of all please come by later on and then we talk about your interest in abb it's always good to have young people that that speak up i like that um uh with regard to the industrial revolution i think that we've got to clarify a few points first thing if you look and see what's happening at the present time we have a possibility to produce products to develop processes and also to provide surfaces and to do this in a way which allows us to combine them in such a way and that way we increase productivity creating prosperity creating jobs and let me just give you some figures figure one at the present time and here in divorce unfortunately there is a lot of anxiety against technology we've had some panel discussions where even the title was very worrying for certain persons but if you look at the big robot developing countries south korea japan germany they have the lowest rates of unemployment so we have to recognize that the combination of technology and human beings if it is used to correctly with a sense of responsibility will create prosperity and will not destroy humanity in 1974 we developed the robots at abb we had the welding robots used in industry and there were a lot of people worrying what's going to happen to welders in the automobile industry now the automobile sector actually um uh employs more people than before because by really combining technology and human beings so we are able to produce very interesting products now the fact is that today it's not just a question of linking factories providing services and people and linking them but if it's used to correctly we can achieve great things let me give you a couple of examples for the subject of industry four point theory energy supply transport and industry in the case of energy supply if you are a CEO of a larger utility and you have a lot of old equipment what do you do how do you do that in terms of plant management if you've got limited resources well today with our available sensor technology we are able to post equip or do downstream equipment now you can say well i can i need some help says the sensor that information is then going to really be compared in databases and we can see exactly what we need to do in terms of maintenance so we can be much more efficient when it comes to using maintenance activities to ensure that this utility company doesn't invest uh wrongly in other words it doesn't uh increase its inefficiency another thing concerns the internet of things where you combine people and internet transport we're working with a larger container company MERSC and together we have developed a piece of software where on the one side you've got the ship and you've got the whole load you've got the meteorological information and also the state of the waves on the route between Europe and Singapore and you can ensure that the trip is going to be safe that you're going to use a little fuel as possible and that you don't need to use high speed and in industry now perhaps you'll have seen this on a number of holdings in uh uh divorce we've got the umid these are robots can be used for assembly purposes and work with the human beings and particularly for monotonous repetitive work certain robots can take that job over and in such a way people can be given more attractive activities to carry out now the industrial idea or the industrial revolution has led to two things first we've had a change in the jobs that people perform now we're talking much too much about that there are certain jobs being lost they will be lost that's true there's never been an industrial revolution where certain types of activity disappeared when the car came there were no longer any uh horse drawn carriages when the robots came there were no longer welders and yet so we continued to be able to create new types of jobs so we've got to look at the individual job and the overall jobs being created now if we can create a greater prosperity there will be greater demand there will be more products are being demanded and of course we will have a positive development so for industrial revolution i see this as a great opportunity i think we've got to do three things in order to achieve this first the technology has to be developed in a meaningful manner secondly we've got to be prepared to make sure that uh there are certain changes which will affect our day-to-day activities and thirdly we've got to make sure that the people who are affected are given education or uh ongoing education so that they have qualifications and so that they can carry out their interesting jobs in their new working environment thank you i agree 100 percent with mr schbeeshofer i think the consequences if you look at a school for example how many or how much time was spent in learning uh of facts and knowledge things by heart or by rote now to a certain extent you have to of course learn things by heart as a basic foundation but in a vocational training in the schools colleges and universities we've got to make sure that people are promoted in terms of creative thinking entrepreneurial thinking we've got to get our young people interested in or give them a desire to change things to create something and it's got to be possible in switzerland one this is one of our greatest disadvantages is that you may fail and that uh you feel that you may be stigmatized but you've got to see this that uh we have to be creative the kind of feeling that prevails in silicon valley that people are going to be on the verge of something new i would like to see that in davos and in switzerland this desire to take on board something to create something mr motty digitization and the fourth industrial revolution what does that mean for the position of switzerland as a financial center i see this more as an opportunity than a problem um today to think what's going to happen in the next five ten years you cannot predict the future it would make any sense in any case of course today in the financial industry we are able to maintain opposition we are able to develop our relationship with customers we do asset management private customer relations institutional customer relations today we need more and more technology for that and that cooperation between technology and human beings has acquired a great much greater quality so we're creating win-win situations for the efficiency of the bank and for the quality of the job that we're doing the big challenge and the big changes however don't actually affect the direct relationship with customers but everything that stands behind it in other words all the back office operations that is where the structures of the banks and of the finance industry are probably 30 years behind modern times sim is limited by the fact that we are an extremely regulated industry and i'm not saying this as a criticism our function obviously means that we have to be subject to to strong regulation but that strong regulation has as a consequence that we don't have the ability to react to quickly and to introduce a new technology but now things are moving exponentially fast much faster than the past so that is the big challenge challenge is we shouldn't think that we know what's going to happen in the next five to ten years but rather we've got to have inbuilt flexibility so that we can react quickly secondly we have a lot of resources which are often invested in repetitive jobs those resources should be reallocated and had to be invested in growth and quality but i am quite optimistic that even in the finance industry we will be able to meet these challenges and that digitization will really perhaps even lead to cannibalization of certain areas but at the same time i'm not really worried about these new developments here because i think that even if we have robots in banking they will have to be regulated Mr. Derrick what does the fourth industrial revolution mean for you for our decor which is a personal recruitment company and our task is to continue to train people and put them back into the labor market of course this is very important for us we find people a million jobs every day 50 000 interviews are carried out every day we have this network we have the databases we know where there are short come where there are shortages digitization is a must we have to be internationally connected just like the finance industry or just like the manufacturing industry our processes have to be more productive have to be more effective and i think we need to succeed also in such a way that our skills are going to translate into something useful for customers the consequence of this is that nobody should worry about what is going to happen in terms of future technology however sophisticated that technology might be i think that the biggest challenge is what we make of that to technology we human beings and it doesn't really matter whether we are at the beginning of the work process or whether you know towards the end of your working life because i've got gray hair already but you've got to perhaps change your professions i think that in the next 10 20 years people change their jobs 10 times and you shouldn't worry about that because everybody who really wants to work and has something in their heads if they've got a brain if they've got a heart then they can do that and can adapt let me just to take an example a very simple example transport vehicles in future they will probably not there be any drivers because you'll have self-driving vehicles but probably what we will need to have is people who provide maintenance or provide the control functions or 3d printers and so on the work will be much more mobile from a swiss perspective that is going to be a big advantage because we won't be worried about jobs being outsourced to countries abroad but rather that the jobs can be performed to hear thanks to automation and thanks to digitization so it could be a great advantage for us so for me the consequence of all these developments is that we shouldn't really be concerned about the future as long as we're prepared to train and retrain constantly we've got to accept that we've got to embrace it and perhaps that is also the answer to the question raised by my younger colleague from china over there we will have robots but they won't have a heart and a soul and we need that because that's what makes us human beings what about the world of politics is the world of politics ready for the fourth industrial generation now pestilence he said you need a heart a brain and a hand because all three have to interact I think what applied in the past applies today now if you say our politicians prepared to embrace this I would say that we are in the process to really develop very clear ideas as to what it can contribute so that these developments I'm not talking about an industrial revolution but that these developments are not impeded that we don't stand in the way of those developments if you think of the program for draft legislation in the field of education which is going to get a first parliamentary reading we talk about education or rather in industrial revolution four points here but it's more a reminder or show a testimony rather that the parliament is aware that the phase of industrialization or the fourth industrialization is on the way I don't think we want to control it too much I think we want to allow the private sector to control things to I'm not really worried I think young people will want to keep their finger on the pulse and we have a very high education level in Switzerland I think that our students will have the best conditions to be able to be prepared for the future so I don't think we should be frightened I don't think we should feel any anxieties regarding the future and we had discussions yesterday with entrepreneurs Mr. Mr. Mspiesolf and Mr. Motti president and one of the entrepreneurs say when we speak of industrial revolution 4.0 do we know where the 3.0 actually took place perhaps we are still dealing with 2.0 or 1.0 so there's a feeling good that you've got sequential developments that you've got industrial revolution 1.0 2.0 3.0 that is probably a false assumption I think we're in a very good starting position we've got great schools we've just got to make sure that people are motivated that they want to work that life of course doesn't end when you finish your schooling you've got to continue your training you've got to continue to further train and acquire greater skills and I think that resources have to be provided by politicians in order to make sure that that education system can continue thank you Mr. President ladies and gentlemen we know that the success model of Switzerland for the future is established we've heard of what has be contributed to success we've got an excellent education system where we have to invest in the future and that we are a meritocracy we want to be able to continue to educate and then we will be able to ensure that people can go into technology so that our innovative forces are maintained and I think that we will have excellent technical institutes as we've heard as Mr. Grissetta told us I think that it's up to politicians obviously can't do everything but we shouldn't try to regulate too much so that there is enough space for entrepreneurial activity for research for innovation and that will ensure that we will remain an attractive country an attractive place to do business and we shouldn't forget what challenges still lie ahead as well we heard during the discussion we've got the refugee crisis so we also have our relationship with the EU that needs to be regulated and in the Swiss Parliament we will be looking at a lot of challenges we'll be looking at our new energy strategy or the corporate taxation aspect thank you very much for your participation it's been a very interesting discussion