 Romans 5 and Romans 6, okay the recording started, welcome back everyone. Any questions so far on Romans 5 and Romans 6, what we have covered before we step into Romans 7? I have a question so this is regarding Romans chapter 6 right so when I first read this chapter many many years ago you know I understood you know my my head understands that you know when either we are dead with Jesus Christ we were crucified with him and we were raised with him and so sin can't really have any hold over us or you know so there was a time where I understood that logically and and then if I were to explain it to say a young person you know again they might understand the words that it says but so how do I explain it in a way that it impacts their spirit you know where it goes beyond just words and logic I hope it made sense I'm sorry yeah I think I think the the starting point is for us to come to understand that this is truth that this is truth and therefore we can walk in the truth right so that means they need to understand the spirits need to grasp it this is truth what God is telling me is truth and therefore I can walk in this truth right so we look at this whole explanation of identification and the outcome the consequences of identification and people need to accept this hey this is truth and when that gets into the heart like yeah sin will not control me sin doesn't have I don't have to be a slave to sin because of this reason these reasons what I've seen then it you know that's the first thing because otherwise as believers we think oh man I'm gonna be struggling with this struggling with sin on my life or I'm gonna be in bondage to sin or whatever but the truth and we accept this as truth this is the truth this what God said then I can walk in it and it can become my experience I think that's the key here and that revelation has to come something that the Holy Spirit has to bring into their hearts so we can try and communicate it as simply as plainly as possible but that yes crypto hearts you know the hey this is true that that the Holy Spirit has to do with that just must yes yeah thank you kind of you know yes I think that's what makes a lot of difference for you know for anything that we see in the Bible that yeah if our hearts are gripped with it and this is true then I'm going to have it then it able to step into it yeah thank you first any other questions from anybody else any any other thoughts everyone's okay all right so now we're going to go into Romans chapter 7 all right in just to give a yeah thank you I see the comments on the chat okay just to give a little gist of Romans 7 before we read it so like we said Paul realizes he comes I mean in Romans 6 okay flesh and that has to be addressed so we come into Romans 7 you will find Paul using the word law quite often he talks about the law which is the law as in the Old Testament law the law of the capital L referring to the law of Moses the Old Testament law but he also uses the word law in the context of sin the law of sin talking about the control of sin right so as we read Romans 7 we will see the word law used in both terms one is referring to the law as in the Old Testament law the commandments the other one is the law of sin as in the control of sin the dominion of sin that we have to deal with now Romans 7 has been quite a challenging chapter for students for people to study the Bible because it is not I mean the question the big question is okay Paul is referring to himself he says I I so you'll find as we read through talking about himself but what is not very obvious so not very clear in Romans 7 is is he talking about himself before he was saved or after he was saved or even after he was saved was he talking about him okay he was saved and still struggling in the flesh or you know where was Paul in the spiritual journey when he's referring to himself here in Romans 7 that's a big question Mark and so when you read different Christian books the authors will take their you know they will explain Romans 7 from that perspective their own from the presumption of a certain position meaning okay Paul is talking about him as maybe a new believer he's struggling like this or he's talking about the life of every believer forever on this earth so that could be another position people take that means what they're trying to say from Romans 7 is you're a believer but for the rest of your life you're going to be struggling with sin but for me I'm not forcing this idea on you but for me I'm convinced from Romans 7 as we read it you look at it for yourself I'm convinced Paul is talking about himself as a unsaved person under the law he's talking about his struggles as a good man still unsaid living under the law whereas when we jump into Romans 8 he's talking about his salvation and life in Christ so therefore in my understanding as we read Romans 7 whatever is being said in Romans 7 does not apply to the believer it applies to somebody in this case Paul who was not saved yet but he was a good man he was living under the law and it shows the struggle of any person who's trying to live right but does not have the life of God in him does not have the power of the Holy Spirit in his life so that's my understanding that's the way I you know I understand Romans 7 and I explain it and live it but I just want to be I want to make us aware that different Bible teachers and others will see it differently because it's all the for me I feel it's very quite clear that Paul is referring to himself as in Romans 7 as while he was under the law some people may position it differently and say well this is the struggle of every believer throughout their rest of their life which I think does not hold just because he has already told us in Romans 6 the power of sin is broken and sin will not have dominion over us and we you know in Romans 8 he says there is victory so at Romans 7 cannot be the experience of a believer for the rest of their lives it's that of a person who's under the law who does not have the power of the Holy Spirit but who has a good heart and who wants to do good okay so those are some of the things that I just wanted to say as we begin to read Romans 7 okay so let's read the first six verses please Romans chapter 7 verses 1 through 6 read that for us she marries another man she will be called and other tourists but if her husband dies she is free from the law so that she is no address though she has married another man therefore my president we also have become dates to the law through the body of Christ that you may be married to another to him who has raised from the dead that we should bear fruit to God for we when we were in the flesh the sins and passions which were arose by the law were at work in our member to bear fruit to death but now we have been delivered from the law having died to when you were held by so that we should serve in the newness of the thank you thank you all right so what can we see here and these first six verses first from verse one we can see that he's addressing Jewish believers right he says do you not know brethren I speak to those who know the law so obviously these had to be Jewish people not the Gentiles because the Gentiles would not have known the law so he's writing to Jewish believers and now why do we say believers he's referring to them as brethren so that's indicative that he's referring to believers so it says Jewish brethren I'm writing to you and the first six verses he's establishing the fact that life has changed after from before and after before they were under the law when were that when was that before they came to Christ of course so before these Jewish brethren were under the law but now he's still trying to impress on them had to understand they are free from the law and to help them understand this is using the analogy of a woman of a wife as long as her husband is alive she's you know by law she's bound to a husband but if the husband dies she is free to marry somebody else so he's using that analogy and then he says brethren I want you to know so remember he's right he's speaking to Jewish brethren people who know the law this is I want you to know verse four you've become dead to the law how through the body of Christ so this is the shift that has taken place they were without the body they were outside the body of Christ now they're in the body of Christ they're in Christ so when they were out of the body of Christ they were under the law but now they are in the body of Christ or like he uses the phrase you are married to another because the law is dead as far as the Jew believer is concerned the law is dead it's over it's gone and now they are in the body of Christ and they are married to Christ right so he's using that analogy so then verse five and six was says when we were in the flesh so not when not the life of the believer now but when you are in the flesh living the past life the sinful life the sinful passions aroused by the law that means they were highlighted by the law right meaning it was a law that said do not steal do not kill do not commit adultery do not cover it so if there was no law then these passions what I was like it may look like very normal everybody's doing it I'm also doing it but when it was seen in the light of the law then they realized hey these are wrong so these sinful passions were at work in our members and it only resulted in death verse six but now you are delivered from the law so again I want this is again indicative of the life without Christ when you are under the law living bound by sinful passions that were highlighted by the law but now you're delivered from the law where are you now you're in the body of Christ you're married to another so you're delivered from the law and we are living in the newness of the spirit not in the oldness of the letter so this is one reason why I am quite convinced I'm convinced that he's contrasting these two lives the life under the letter of the law under the oldness of the letter and the life that is in the newness of the spirit he's contrasting that the life under law the life in the body of Christ married to Christ in the newness of the spirit but the main point in these six verses he's trying to get these Jewish believers to understand we are not subject to the law anymore we are free from the law because now we are in the body of Christ we are serving God in the newness of the spirit right or if you want to cross-reference in Galatians 5 and verse Galatians 5 verse 18 sorry yeah verse 18 Galatians 5 18 he says if you are led by the spirit you are not under the law Galatians 5 verse 18 if you are led by the spirit you're not under the law why because the Holy Spirit is going to keep help us do the law and much more than the law right he's going to bear the fruit of love joy peace kindness meekness temperance faithfulness gentleness temperance against which there is no law and the law is not hold cannot speak against this cannot hold us against this right so when you walk in the spirit you're not under the law right so that's why Romans 6 6 Romans 7 verse 6 we are in the newness of the spirit not under the oldness of the letter of the law okay so he's telling the believer Jewish believers don't have to live by the law you're walking in the newness of the spirit but then he now goes into talking about the law and the struggle with sin okay so let's go from verse 7 Romans chapter 7 or 7 to 12 please Romans 7 7 to 12 please start you want to read up can I go ahead okay go ahead thank you first 7 what shall we say then is the law sin certainly not indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law for I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said do not covet but sin seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment produced in me every kind of covetousness this covetous desire for apart from law sin is dead once I was alive apart from law but when the commandment came since prank to life and I died I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life of actually brought death for sin seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment deceived me and through the commandment put me to death so then the law is holy and the commandment is holy righteous and good so in these verses Paul is addressing the whole aspect of the law so you know he's just gone through telling the Jewish believers look they're not under the law we're free from the law we're in the body of Christ we're married to another we are serving God in the newness of the spirit all of that so then obviously the next question again rhetorical question oh so is the law sinful is there a problem with the law so he says obviously certainly not right so he keeps asking these questions as he's explaining things so the problem is not with the law in fact like he concluded in verse 12 the law is holy it's the commandment is holy it's just and good meaning the law is good nothing wrong with the law you know the law tells us not to kill not to steal not to covet not to do all these things the law is good the law is holy the law is just so the problem is not with the law the problem is he says look when because of the law sin became very powerful that means I now knew there was something called sin and only that I then realized I couldn't be free from this thing so the law highlighted my weakness against sin is what he's saying again in this passage there's a very interesting verse which is verse 9 which again you find different people interpreting this verse differently or understanding this verse differently he says I was alive once without the law but when the commandment came sin revived and I died so this has been a challenging worse for many when what Paul is of course referring to himself but when was he in this state where he said I was alive once without law and then when the commandment came sin revived and I died you know how do we understand this verse yeah correctly to the best of our understanding I mean the best person to tell us this would of course be the Apostle Paul and you know hey what were you thought what were you really referring to when you said I was alive without the law and of course the Holy Spirit today will have to help us understand you know what what is actually being said so let's look at it look at Paul's life at what stage or when would this have been true when he was alive without the law but when commandment came sin revived and I died so before coming to know the law because he says when the commandment came that means when he received understanding of the commandment so up until that time he was not under the law I mean the sense that he didn't know how you know to submit what is what should he submit himself to so he was without the law in that sense and when he was without the law that means he still he didn't have the understanding the law what is good what good and bad was right and wrong he was without the law he said I was alive so this was before his knowledge of the law he was alive so again here's something interesting to think about again I don't want to say this you know as well this is like definitive but it seems to be indicative that there's this age maybe we don't exactly which you know maybe 12 or 13 or at some point when as a person we understand the commandment meaning this is right and this is wrong and I know that as children growing up we tell them don't do this do this and you know we have them understand and they of course to understand but you know the term the age of accountability that means they they they come to this place but they understand the big picture they see the big picture there is God and it's not just about obeying mom and dad or you know if I do this I will get a chocolate and I don't do this I will not get a chocolate it's not about that they come to the place where they understand commandment as having to do with God what exact that age is I guess it would vary from person to person some people may at a young age come to that understanding of commandment and some maybe a little later but generally people say around 12 13 or something so it seems verse 9 seems to indicate that stage that transition he was alive once without the law I didn't have understanding of the law was alive just free but when the commandment came an understanding of the law came that I am held accountable to this standard then sin came alive and I died that means I had no way to overcome sin sin took a hold of me so that's what he says there in verse 8 sin taking opportunity by the commandment that means in the understanding of the commandment came sin the awareness of sin came because what is sin it is the violation of the law there's a breaking of the commandment so the understanding of sin came and I saw what was what was in doing is producing in me all manner of evil desire so I saw that in hey actually in me there are all kinds of wrong desires which are contrary to the law which is sin and so what he's telling us in these verses 7 to 12 he's talking about the law he's talking about sin and in essence he says that you know only when the law was presented to me I realized I was sinning not only did I realize I was sinning I also realized something more I realized that there was sin at work in me that means there was all manner of evil desire in me which was causing me to break the law causing me to sin so now as we progress you'll find that he now focuses on not just the law but on the sin in me the sin sinful desires the evil desires that were in the person okay so we pick up in verse 13 and yeah let's just read I guess we'll just read the to the verse 25 okay Romans chapter 7 13 to 25 and we'll go through those verses together Romans 7 7 to 35 well then I am suggesting that the law of God is sinful of course not 13 to 25 please 13 onwards Thomas but how can that be did the law which is good caused by death of course not sin used what was good to bring about my condemnation to death so we can see how terrible sin really is it uses God's good commands for its own evil purpose so the trouble is not with the law but it is spiritual and good the trouble is with me but I'm all too human a slave to sin I don't really understand myself for I want to do what is right but I don't do it instead I do what is what I hate but if I know that what I'm doing is wrong this shows that I agree that the law is good so I'm not the one doing wrong it is sin living in me that dies it and now that nothing good lives in me that is in my sinful nature I want to do what is right but I can't I want to do what is good but I don't I don't want to do that what is wrong but I do it anyway but if I do what I don't want to do I'm not really the one doing wrong it is sin living in me that does it yeah was 21 to 25 I have discovered this principle life that when I want to do what is right I inevitably do what is wrong I love God's law with all my heart but there is another power within me that is at war with my mind this power makes me a slave to this sin that is still with me oh what a miserable person I am who will free me from this life that is dominated by sin and death thank God the answer is in Jesus Christ a lot so you see how it is in my in my mind I really want to obey God's law but because of my sinful nature and slave to sin so these verses thank you verses 13 to 25 Paul describes the struggle so he has said look the law has highlighted sin but the problem is not with the law the law is good it's holy it's spiritual it's righteous and just but there's sin and there's a sin working in my flesh through my natural desires which of now are flesh meaning that are now evil desires natural evil desires so as you look at these verses very carefully you see there's a struggle there he says look I want to do what's right but I don't do it I desire to please God but I don't do it and why is it because I find verse 21 I find a law I find something that is controlling me it is the evil that is present with me and this evil verse 23 is you know keeping my members enslaved to sin even though in my inner person my mind I want to obey God so verse 24 who's going to deliver me from this body of death why is he calling it a body of death because sin produces death verse 13 sin produces death so his body has now become the body of death why because it's controlled by sin and therefore the more he's going to let sin dominate him his body is going to you know things that produce death are at work in his body so the big question like I mentioned at the very beginning the big question many people try to answer is like is Paul referring to like is this descriptive versus 13 to 25 is this descriptive of Paul as a believer is this descriptive of Paul as a man under the law before becoming a believer that's the big question and a lot of Christians quote this passage verses 13 to 25 to describe their struggle against sin say okay you know Paul also struggle and I'm also struggling I want to do good but I don't do it but I want to you know point out a couple of things first of all Paul is talking about him while he was under the law he started off like after he explained that we are free from the law he then goes back and says okay let's is the law wrong or while we were under the law while I was under the law this is what I found so he has already transitioned or positioned this whole experience as while I was under the law we saw that in verse 9 when the commandment came that means when I came to know the law sin came up and I was died I died so that's one thing that is he's already positioned what he's going to say as while I was under the commandment while I was under the law this was my experience secondly he concludes this whole thing by saying thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord meaning I'm pointing to the way out I feel trapped but this is the way out he's not saying I took the way out came on the other side and I found myself trapped I was under the law and I'm trapped because I want to do the right things which the law is telling me but I'm finding sin controlling my flesh my body how can I get rid of the sin that is controlling my desires controlling my fleshly desires how can I get rid of it he points to the way out Jesus Christ is the way out so that's the second reason why I say this experience of verse 13 and 13 different fight does not apply to the believer because the believer is on the other side but it is an experience it is Paul's experience while under the law before coming to Jesus Christ right now I recognize that some people may not see it the way I just shared but this is my conviction and I am sharing that with you now if you and after studying Romans 7 and you're free to take the position that you're comfortable with from your understanding you're from your study but these are two reasons why you know I'm really convinced that Romans 7 13 to 25 was talking about Paul's life as a good Jewish person but without the power of Jesus Christ in his life and so Paul is saying verse 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ so there are two things that need to be dealt with the law has already been dealt with that we are dead to the law you're married to Christ done but there is the law of sin and there's a law of death so he says and you find this you know there is in verse 9 he says and just follow me here Romans 7 verse 9 says sin revived I died so sin and death verse 13 sin producing death because the wages of sin is death or the result of sin is death sin is producing death that means anything that is decaying that destroys that corrupts and ultimately it is physical death and spiritual death that sin producing death verse 17 sin dwells in me verse 23 the law of sin which is in my members that means the control of sin in my body what is the result verse 24 this body of death that means sin dwelling in my body is causing my body to die again end of verse 25 the law of sin so what I've pointed out in these verses is there are policy there are two problems here there is sin and death there's the law of sin and death because sin is producing death in me so who's gonna set us free from the sin that is controlling my flesh the desires of my body and is ultimately producing death in me it's causing my body to die things that are destructive to my body that's the problem who's gonna deliver me how am I gonna come out of this now why is this important in the light of what Paul has already said in Roman 6 there's one connecting point what is it Roman 619 I'm speaking to you because of the weakness of your flesh so there's a weakness in the flesh in the believer what is it sin is at work in the flesh right and sin is producing death so sin if it's allowed to continue in the flesh will still produce death so while the believer has is set free how does he walk free from sin that produces death in the flesh that takes us into chapter 8 okay that's the answer is there in chapter 8 so remember he's writing it you know in one continuous flow of thought and chapter 8 is going to tell us how the believer can live free from sin so let me pause here any questions so far on Roman 7 okay is it clear is Roman 7 clear anybody else with any okay I'm just looking at the chat and I see your responses there okay anyone else any questions Thomas Dave Conan that brings okay so we've come to this point and in Romans 8 he and this is to preview we'll pick this up next week he says okay what's the answer thank God through Jesus Christ so now he's transitioning I've come to experience and encounter Jesus Christ so in Christ how can I overcome this sin that controls my flesh and the sin that is producing death in me what is the answer we find that right there in Romans chapter 8 verse 1 and 2 he says there is now therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus we do not walk according to the flesh but according to the spirit but the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death so you see the transition it's a change now what is it I'm I'm in Christ Jesus and in Christ I'm not living according to the flesh but I'm living according to the spirit why because the spirit has made me free from the law of sin and death what was working in me sin and death who set me free I'm in Christ and in Christ the Holy Spirit set me free from sin and death right so this Romans 8 1 and 2 is where the believer should be living you understand the truth of Romans 6 you practice those instructions in Romans 6 and then you live in Romans 8 the spirit of life enables us to overcome law or the law of sin and that the control of sin and death in our bodies okay so we're going to pick this up next week Romans chapter 8 and we'll get into this it's exciting because this is like the answer this is where the believer is supposed to be living in Christ okay so pause here let's close in prayer and then we will dismiss can somebody please close in prayer and we will dismiss the class so aren't you on a prayer or sorry Russian go ahead okay father we thank you for this time we thank you once again for this wonderful opportunity that we have to get to learn from your word Lord father as you would say in Psalm 19 I pray that you'll open up our eyes to the wonderful things of your word as we study we commit the rest of the day into your hands you continue guide us Lord in Jesus name I pray amen thank you everyone God bless you thank you again thank you bye now bye now thank you thank you