 Howdy, howdy, direwolf, flam, stinky. Hey, flam, if you have time, this might be a good one to record with a not so coming on. Thank you, dear. Hey, what's up, Green Candy Press? What's up, brother? Long time no talk. Curbside, what's up, fool? Constellation, keep it on and on. How you guys doing? Welcome, welcome. That Green Candy Press, I'm gonna submit you guys. I love you too. Skitch, skitch, bitch, what's up? Swerve of Lisa, someone said, where's the swerve of Lisa? What? That was Brynza, lovely creation. Like, that was all her. She saw the Venus de Milo and saw swerve standing like, she's like, this motherfucker had to fucking prepare it this way. Swerve of Lisa? Yeah, swerve of Lisa. Swerve de Milo. Okay, so waiting a little bit for people to start coming in. For those of you already in here, so I've got a big box next to me of some oldies and goodies and there's a lot more, this is just the stuff that's packed up, but we've got some cool little treats like this for the auction. And now, so you guys know, at the beginning, we're gonna do the auction at the end of the show, near the end, but I'm not sure how long this one's gonna take. This might be a, this might be a two hour long one. We don't know yet. Depends on how long they wanna take it and how annoying is that that everybody who messaged me, it makes a loud ass noise. There he is, awesome, awesome. Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, what's up dude? How goes it? How you doing? I'm good. You're perfect, man, it's good to see you. Good to see you as well. All right, so yeah, I decided, like you know, I mean, we talk all the time, we've been trying to figure out the whole super skunk fiasco. Yep. From point of where, I guess, how do we wanna label certain people? Well, I mean, we can just call a skunk va, skunk va. Since everybody knows, everybody's familiar with that moniker. Yeah, but the others. Chem dog is chem dog. That's another familiar moniker. Skunk va and my old buddy. I think during the podcast, he called him his buddy from Staten Island. Okay, let's do that, yeah. And he's a private dude and kind of out of the scene at this point. So we're just gonna like not say his name out of respect and that he's long, his part is important, but long ago. So out of respect for him, we'll just refer to him in code. Yeah, that's perfect. Strangely, he's one of those rare people in the industry that is not seeking past fame. Yeah, no, it's not P-Bud guys, no. He is actually the opposite. Yeah, so let's start with, where do you wanna start the super skunk story at? Where should we start it at? We'll start at the beginning. There we go. Okay, so my buddy from Staten Island, him and Skunk va were very good friends and they used to travel and tour together dead tour days, right? Yeah. And in the early 90s, dude wanted to move out to the West Coast in California and he was more into seeing Jerry Garcia shows than he was into seeing the actual dead, right? Yeah. So he would play at the Warfield basically every month, right? Like a big ass hippie gathering at the Warfield, you know, and so my buddy kind of stopped touring, moved to Sonoma County and started seeing every Jerry show there, right? Obviously Jerry shows are, they're like honey to dead heads. So a whole bunch of, you know, so a whole bunch of dead heads would always attend the shows at the Warfield, right? Correct. So Skunk va being from Virginia, right? A lot of his old crew and mentors and various things like that were East Coast, right? Yeah. So one time some of these guys came out and from the East Coast and they were partying with all those guys at the Warfield, okay? Okay. So Skunk va and I's mutual friend used to have this strain called the Francine, all right? Tell us about Francine, a little offset, but tell us about Francine a little bit. Francine is a mystery indica that, we didn't use the term at the time, but it was about as terpy as terpy gets. Yeah. Eventually do dropped it because like a lot of Afghans, it had a horrific mold problem. Yeah. And as you know, when you grow things that horrifically look beautiful and horrifically mold at times it's very depressing harvest time. Oh yeah. I've been to you a few times with a cut, you can get PTSD and decide to drop it, you know? Like people get emotional about it, so. What does she smell like? You know, it was a really good combination of like that Afghan kind of acrid funk. Yeah. But with like a fruity aspect, but not like the tropical sativa kind of fruit, it just had like a really deep like, like foot funk fruit kind of flavor to it, I think. Oh wow. So anyway, so these dudes loved it. Yeah. And they loved it so much, they were willing to trade this skunk that they had for it. Okay? So separately to all this story and Skunkva kind of talked about this extensively on his podcast, so I'll just briefly touch on it. But Chemdog wouldn't give out the dog, which is what we call it to anyone, right? He held it tight. He didn't want anybody in his circle getting it. He didn't want to get cut off, you know, or have other people sell it. But when Homie moved to California, he agreed, look, I'll give it to you if you just don't ever share it with anybody back east. Yeah. Right? Yeah, don't want it to beat markets. Totally makes sense. Markets don't share it. So basically what happened is that Skunkva arranged with his buddies to trade the Francine for the skunk. Okay? Yeah. Dude decided to make a double trip where he would bring the Francine out to Virginia and he would trade it for the skunk and then he would drive up to Massachusetts and he would get the Chemdog that was promised to him, right? Dude, that's committed. That is committed. In 1993, Homie drove across a bunch of shady-ass states with living plants, you know, not very many and small, but still, you know. Still, yeah. And see if he got pulled over, he probably would have to eat them, you know, or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and we have those state checkpoints. You got to do all kinds of, you know, this was actually pre-pre to use a term we joke about. Most of the Highway 80 drug checkpoints and stuff like that, this was in 93, so they really hadn't gotten wise to that too much. Oh, good. If you took the middle route, you were pretty much safe for the most part. I mean, you could still get pulled over, you know, and he definitely looked like a hippie. I bet. Like he wasn't, you know, secret sauce or anything like that. He didn't look like a young Republican or anything. Yeah, yeah. And so he drives out to Virginia and meets what we just learned actually recently, ended up being dude's actual worker because the dude had already kind of gone on the run for a bit and was weaving. And so he gets this super scunt cut, okay? And I want to interject, as far as we know, the person we're referring to, not by name, the Staten Island guy, that, as far as we know, this is Scumfier's mentor. So this is how close we can put Scumfier to the beginning of this cut, as far as we know. The guy that agreed to do it is the mentor, but apparently the guy that actually did the trade is one of his workers. Exactly. But I asked, when all this confusion came up a few years ago, I asked Staten Island, do you remember the exchange well enough to be absolutely sure what did he call it? Yeah. If you fast forward to like when I became friends with these guys in the late 90s, it was always called Super Scunk, right? Yes. So Staten Island, he gets, you know, he told me that straight up dude said this is a Super Scunk cut. Okay. So he gets it. Straight forward, yeah. So he trades, he gets it. Then he drives to Massachusetts, okay? And he meets up with ChemDog and he gets the 91. We all call it the dog, but you know, everybody on the internet calls it Skunk Faw Cut or 91 or whatever. So, but everybody back then it was just the dog. Bunch of these dudes were organic growers. And so it was ChemDog. They didn't want to put Chem on it, yeah. My buddy, they weren't super into calling it ChemDog because they grew fully organic. So we just showed this dog and amongst all of us long before it got famous or anything like that, that's just kind of the shorthand, you know, I've been writing that on labels now for two decades, right? So he got an extra cut or two of this Super Skunk. Okay. Okay. And he gave one to ChemDog. Okay. Okay. So ChemDog got it basically by accident. Yeah, he got it by proxy. Just like- By accident by proxy. He got it because home he decided to go to Virginia before Massachusetts. That's crazy. What a wild question. He could have reversed it and gone, Massachusetts, Virginia home. Yeah. But he went Virginia, Massachusetts home. That's it. It changed a lot. That act, that choice in my opinion, and we've talked about this a bunch or whatever. Sure. That ended up leading to a whole series of accidental events that became super important. Right? Right. Yeah. You know, so then he drives back home. Right? Yep. Now he's got Super Skunk in the dark. Okay? Yeah. And if you went to Warfield shows in San Francisco to see Jerry Banned, you probably could have seen him slinging all that in front of the show every single month. Yeah. Yeah. So Skunk Faw took a different tact and he could speak to this for himself, but he kept touring basically. Right? Mm-hmm. So when Jerry died in August, this next week here, we call this the days between, because Jerry's birthday is on the 1st of August and his death is in a week now or something like that. And so these are like. It's like Easter for hippies. Yeah, it's sort of like the, yeah, it's the Easter week or whatever. So, you know, Skunk Faw decided to settle down after Jerry passes, right? And that's when he started growing. Mm-hmm. Now, because obviously to grow, you have to be semi-stable. It's not a really dramatic lifestyle, right? So. Yeah. So those pictures that he's been posting of Polaroids and everything like that are after our buddy gave him the cut from his friends in Virginia and he started growing it. Yes. Right? So that's basically how, that's basically how this cut from Virginia made its way to Sonoma County, the Bay and Massachusetts. And see, and then this is a great intro too to the ChemDog stories, well, which we will cover in our podcast, which will eventually be here soon. Soon, so that's the start of, that's the start of the Super Skunk movie. You know, I met, I didn't know them then. Personally, I met a couple of years after that. And my, you know, my buddy, he fell in love with the Mendo P. Yeah. A couple other things or whatever. And so he ended up giving me the Super Skunk and the Dog for safekeeping, you know? And that's in the late 90s and that's kind of how I got it. And you've had it, well, like not the Super Skunk, but the Chem91 and it stayed with you ever since. I've had that since, I never lost it. No, unfortunately the Super Skunk was lost, but we'll get to that. Okay, so, you know, so we have this stuff, right? And, you know, this is obviously, what is it? You know, so late 90s, 2000, 2001, this whole little era right then. So you've got like, the internet is in, it's like infancy essentially, right? Overgrow had just began in 98. Yeah, it just started. Yeah. So there really wasn't any internet fame. Yeah. Right? All these things that have become super famous and like holy grails and all these people trying to figure out stuff, right? Most of the stories that I believe that I've heard about this stuff comes from that era. Yeah. Because that was when there was, nobody gave a shit. Yeah. In the sense. There was no reason to bull about any of it. There was no fame associated with it. There was no rap, there was no, I mean, it was literally like, there was like four people in California who had it. Yeah, exactly. There was me, Skunk Va, our buddy, and Icy Collective. Yes, Icy Collective, yes. Right? That's right. Who was really close friends with Skunk Va, you know? Yeah. And Greg and that, and he ended up like moving in with Skunk Va and that's how he got the cut. So there was literally like four of us. Yeah. So not very big. And in fact then you had enormous rooms or anything like that, you know? Yeah. So there really wasn't very much of it even being produced. Yeah, you're blowing it up with the four lighter, essentially. You're blowing it up. Mostly eight, 12 lighters. Oh, okay. So you guys are slinging hard. 12 lighters or whatever, but yeah, you know? And so to keep it back on the Super Skunk tip, you know, obviously it's been quite a long time, but here's what I know for sure. It was, I never ever heard it called anything with Super Skunk. Now obviously we've had some debate amongst friends. Oh, sure. There's a whole different thing we can get into later about whatever, about some different names and stuff. And air may not be the exact same thing through different crews or whatever, but as far as my little group goes, that's what it was always called, right? Straight Super Skunk. And so Buddy from Staten Island, okay? He would love like when we'd have trimmers over, you could pull side branches of that thing and you could hold it up to the picture in the catalog of the 90-seed bank, right? Then it was like a dead ringer. Yeah. You could find buds on the plants that like match that look exactly. Yeah, it was very, very important. I've witnessed him dozens of times over multiple crops, right? Like just because he was just so cool because it's like exactly like the picture in the catalog, right? Yeah, and he could show you, hey, this really is Super Skunk, you're buying. And so in a lot of ways, it was a sketchy plan. That was the very beginning of the 215 era, right? But it wasn't really, 215 had like multiple eras, right? The first five versus 215, like the cops, the courts, everything, it was still pretty much underground. Yeah, yeah, you were still getting fucked. People hadn't grown to like, let's have a greenhouse outside my back door. Yeah, none of that. Brilling, indoor was still sketchy, it was still not the jam, you know? Yeah. So the Super Skunk, you know, the last two or three weeks, it literally people joke about carbon filter killer, right? Yeah. It was the only strain I've ever grown that absolutely defeated every opportunity I ever had to win. I don't even know any other way to describe it. The amount of carbon it would give me, like I would pull up with two weeks to go in front of my house in summer and it would smell like a dead skunk in my driveway. Yeah, I know the feeling, not with skunks, but yeah. Every direction, and so, you know, back then you're just like, oh my God, you know, that is pretty nerve wracking. And so it was a thing at which I had, obviously people know on this thing what scrubbers are. I had a CO2 scrubber with a fan scrubbing the room. Or a carbon filter, sorry, not CO2. I had a carbon filter, right? Yeah. And so that's scrubbing the room. And then I had a carbon filter on the exhaust. And then I had one of those huge UVO Nair double, you know, ozone generators. Yes. Even did the recommended 25 or 30 feet of tubing before it went out the building to make sure it had time to mix. Yeah. And it still smelled like I was slaughtering skunks in my backyard. I mean, that's kind of how it was, you know? So it was trippy in that regard. And you know, it was, I don't know, it looked dense. Even when it looked dense, it was still weighed light. Yeah, it was. Those things where you put a nougat on there and you're like, oh, this is going to be impressive. And you're like, oh, no. It's hollow. How does it make hollow weed? So it was solid, but it was fluffy. It's almost like ice cream or something that had a bunch of air whipped into it, you know? And the weird thing about the turp is that it was super volatile, in my opinion. Like it didn't really stink until the last bit. And then it dunked for about a month or five weeks after you cut it. Yeah. Honestly, if you let super skunk go too long in your jar or whatever, it would eventually kind of smelling semi-degenerate green butter. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. It would go from like, I could crack a jar in the other room and someone would walk in and ask me what was going on. Like you would have to like crunch the shit out of it and deeply smell to try to get a whiff. Yeah, that makes sense. But fresh, it reaped. Yeah. You know, and it was kind of hard to trim. It could be sparse when it didn't, you know? I mean, for most people, probably the easiest way to think about it is real old school sour has a lot of similarities to it. Yes. So when sour doesn't want to come out the right way, it's a bitch to trim, you know? Like people lose, people start, you know, your crew gets disheartened. Oh my God, I got to trim diesel, you know? Yeah, right? No, I posted some stuff for you the other night that I sent you where like my old sour diesel cutting, it looks like those tops, those colas, they really. Oh yeah. See those same super skunk tops that skunk va posts. Yeah. You can really see the similarity in it, you know? So the other thing that, so it had unbelievable turps. I mean, when people talk about RKS turps or whatever else, it was the turpiest, skunkiest, rankest thing imaginable, you know? It really was. And, you know, it also, you know, it also hermed like a motherfucker. Yeah, that's like really the first thing I ever heard about mass super when I first started getting into the scene and learning the history and stuff, that that shit was a herm bomb. Yeah, it was a herm bomb, it could herm. You know, we would pull it about eight weeks. Sometimes you would, you know, you would try to take it longer because you think maybe it needed to be done more and then would herm for sure. Yeah. The other thing is, and this is kind of weird about it, is that it hermed early too. Because, well, as a breeder, right? You know, if you pull, let's say you pull the super skunk at 58 days and you find tiger striped beans in it. Yeah. When were those beans made? Yeah, you know, they're early on, probably primordial. They had to be early on because it takes a good four to six weeks. Yes, to mature it. To like fully mature and get that dark tiger striping that looks all healthy and stuff, you know? Sure. So you pull a strain at 58 days just by the law of how beans grow. Yeah. Had to pot, you know, it's something had bad had to happen in three weeks or something. Yeah, right? Yeah. But that, in my opinion, you know, and there's a certain amount of, you know, we can get to opinions about it, but that factor created a whole bunch of weed that we like. Yeah, I did. That's the crazy part. The crazy part about all of it. Through live herms. Yeah. And so, okay, so, you know, in the, in the, you know, the buddy from Staten Island, right? He was not very into sharing. Yeah. No, I, you know, when I got the dog, I had to promise that I wouldn't give it out, you know? Yes. Which I didn't for forever, you know? And I would have like, really good friends of ours that would beg me for it. And I'd be like, you know who you have to talk to, get him to call me and say that you can have it and I'll take cuts for you tomorrow. Yeah. But otherwise, like, I'm not breaking my word. Yeah, of course. Because like, we're all good friends and he's gonna know you have it. And then that makes me look like an asshole, you know? So, no, you know? And there's issues. And it's like, well, this is the, you know, this is what I had to do. So he wasn't as strict about the skunk, but he kind of felt the same way, you know? And you know me, like I try to be as like, as etiquette, as possible with cuts. I don't even like to pressure people. I'm just not into it. Like, they have their own vibe and their own energy about why they come to you or not, you know? Sure. And so, you know, so what sucks about that is that we didn't spread it very far. Yeah. Like we weren't on forums or anything like that or whatever. Staten Island, buddy, is not Weasel. Clock glass, no. No. No, he's not. I'm not paying very much attention to the words at the bottom of the screen. So, as anything, maybe Matt can say it or repeat it again or something, but yeah. He's totally not, it's totally not him. So, you know, so the fact, there's two things, right? Obviously, back then, most people are growing for profit, you know, on some level. And so, having a cut that wreaks the high heaven and scares your neighbors and herms on you, you know, it made it dicey on people holding it. Yeah. And so, you know, we never, you know, skunk va, myself, you know, our buddy, we never really spread it. We weren't trading. We weren't active on the forums, you know? We weren't swapping cuts out right and left and stuff. And so, you know, that's a, you know, that's a different discussion. But as you know, like every time, my opinion is, is like every single time a famous named cut happened. Yeah. Like purple craze with Urkel and GDP, the sour, the cushes, whatever. A whole bunch of amazing diversity just goes to shit. Yeah. Because people want to fill their room or their greenhouse or their whatever with something that some guy is gonna come and snap it from them, right? Yeah, they want the shit that's gonna sell, not for the most. So even amongst most of my close friends, I've always had a bitch of a time getting people to back things up for me. Yeah. People want one or two plants that they're currently doing for production. And they don't hold on to a bunch of stuff that they're doing for safekeeping or heads or whatever, you know? Yeah. So it wasn't that easy for me to get it to be backed up anywhere, right? Because when it comes to production and stuff like that, some broker finding seeds is fucking doomed. So like, hey, do you want to grow this thing that could potentially lightly or heavily seed your room? Mm-hmm. No. Not at all. Not really. No, right, you know? So, you know, I mean, so we all grew it and... Sorry, I just had to boot someone. I didn't want to, but he was being a jackass and being real rude, so. Oh, I wasn't even paying attention. It's all good. It's all good. So, I don't know. I mean, that's kind of the start of the Cali Super Skunk you know, thing. It stayed with our little crew. Yeah. You know, and, you know, the Massachusetts side of things, and Greg and all that other stuff, or Kim Dogg. Wait, one second. Like, I'm being real fucking serious. You're being fucking disrespectful as fuck, and I'm gonna fuck you up if you keep it up. Knock it the fuck off. Have some respect. I've been real fucking cool to you. Okay, cool. So, I don't know. I mean, so, you know, I don't know. I have no idea, like, you know, what happened with Kim Dogg in Massachusetts. You know, who, when, how, he shared, what with, you know, all that type of stuff. You know, as far as the actual Super Skunk cut goes. Yeah. You know, but it's one of those things where, like, you know, nobody wanted it until it became sort of this legendary, famous thing, and then everybody started poking around trying to figure out who might have kept it. You know? So, Staten Island and I, we had this thing where, like, two of our favorite strains were obviously the Super Skunk and the Kim Dogg, right? Yeah. The Super Skunk had the lime green and the frost. I mean, you know, from the Kim Dogg, you know, from Dogg, Dogg isn't particularly gorgeous. It's not super frosty compared to the strains. It's darker cut, you know? It cannibalizes its own leaves. It doesn't even always taste great, you know? Sometimes it can taste amazing, and I love the flavor, but like, I could grow it all year long and only two crops out of five be happy with its flavor at times. You know, and why exactly that is? I don't know. So we had this idea, and this is long before, you know, I mean, there was no real American seed companies or anything like that, right? So we were doing a bunch of breeding, but we were doing a bunch of breeding that was literally for our taste buds. Like, it was not for public consumption. At best, it was gonna be grown by us and spread out. Yeah. You know, we created this thing over time Staten Island started it, and I came on and helped, and you know, we did some work on it together that we eventually called the Super Dog, which is in the cannibal, the second one, I think. Yeah. That was my first experience with kind of really finding a strain that I wanted to hunt right there. Even though I got along quite well with Jason who wrote it, and I gave him a bunch of accurate information, a lot of that got twisted and turned into some of his entries about the dog and the chem dog and all that type of stuff, you know? So be that as it may, what we were trying to do was we were trying to combine the Terps and the look of Super Skunk with the potency and some of the density and some of the niceness of the dog. Sure. You know, and it was like a, you know, and so, you know, and strangely, and this is another thing of why I think maybe it disappeared as we talked about this recently too, I tend to believe that the Skunk and the Herm is related. Yes. Like I can't say for certain, but I think it might be a linked trait. And there's a lot of evidence for that, yeah. You know, and as you know, there's very few traits that people breeding have more prejudice against than banana sacks with hermonum, you know? Yeah. And so I think inadvertently, people bred away from the Skunk without realizing it because, you know, you breed some stuff, it's a hermie mass, it reeks, you're like, oh, God, that's a hermie mass. I'm gonna get, you know, I'm not gonna breed towards that side. And the idea that you could have a linked trait where you have a very desirable trait and a not so desirable trait together, you know, is... The biggest breeder pain in the ass ever is a linked trait with undesirable traits. You're like, oh, all the potency comes in these low yielding ones that suck, you know? All these huge donkey dicks and like have the structures incredible, they're all bland, you know? Yep. So, you know, the problem is, is that, you know, you have a situation, it's like, it's kind of the same thing, like, you know, like I told you about with the Trinity, right? Where the Trinity didn't spread very far. And so when we lost it, and I kept trying to get it back, people would give me fakes. Yeah. Fakes not because they were dicks most of the time, but because they never had it back in the day. So when they got it from someone, they didn't, they had no way of knowing that it wasn't it. Yeah, of course. Yeah. And so then I would have to be the bearer of bad news, you know, and be like, no, this isn't it. Yeah, and people hate the bearer of bad news. And that's kind of what's happened with the super skunk, right? Is that there's obviously this desire in the community to have these, these roadkill turbs come back, right? Everyone who finds super skunk has a current seed company and is making seeds to sold to the public. No one ever shows up to events with a couple jars of fresh skunk and lets the proof be in the pudding. Yeah, right? They get the cut, they advertise the cut, here's the cut, we're breeding with the cut, buy my seeds, find the amazing turbs in the cut, right? Or they get kinks. You know, yeah. And so you don't know, you don't know if they're lying because I don't know or whatever, or they just have no, they just never had it in the past, you know? To know that, to know what skunk is, yeah. What actual, to what the actual skunk cut is, you know? Correct. And so, you know, by the early to mid 2000s, it had been dropped enough that, you know, various people had lost it through, you know, lots of the same reasons that everybody loses cuts, fires, busts, accidents, breakups, you know, people not returning it. I had it backed up with a couple people, they refused to give it back to me at one point and then lost it in the future. And I had some stuff happen and I lost it and we've been, you know, we've been hunting it ever since. And, you know, I mean, we're both obviously friends with Skunk Fah and all these new school super skunk finds. I mean, what are you gonna say? They just end up, they end up not looking, I mean, what's awesome is that he's got these, he's got these, you know, these pictures, these Polaroids that are undisputable proof that was the cut I had. That is so big that he has those pictures. We're buddies, we got it from, you know, it came from the same place. The story was the same thing, you know? So, you know, it's it. And, you know, you have all these other shorter squatter, Afghan, all these other different looking, you know, super skunk cuts. And then the other part of it too, is that you have people that, like, okay, so this guy had the super skunk at once, right? Well, then as soon as that dude verifies, right? Yeah. Well, then all of a sudden, okay, we have it. Now we can trade bait it. Now we can get spread out. Now this person has the cut and, you know, That's the problem. And that's the problem, you know? And so, you know, I mean, before everybody who's listening, holy shit, we're up to 242 people on this thing, but the super skunk was not a perfect cut, you know? Like it wasn't, in my opinion, it wasn't the holy grail. Did it have crazy rare skunk turps? Absolutely. It had that fades. Was it enjoyable to smoke? Sure, right? I don't think it held a candle to the dog, the D, some of the cushes, a lot of the modern cuts right now that we would consider to be elite, you know? You would consider it to have moderate potency at best. Yes. You know? It wasn't, you know, I mean, you know, various cuts have various qualities and other things, and you know, and so it didn't check all the boxes. Yeah. Was it a great cut? Sure. Was it having, yes. Was it a pain in the ass to grow at times, yes. You know, in your room. Yes. Think about, but you know, you know, I mean, in, I think, you know, I mean, obviously, you know, all of ChemDog's early breedings were all accidental, right? Yeah. You know. As far as we know, that's the correct, yeah. But he was, well, I mean, the thing is, nobody was reversing back then. No. He was fucking Christ, right? And, Yeah, Noah's making femseeds back then on purpose. Feeds back then. And so you only, you know, so, you know, the only way you're crossing two female cuts is accidentally. Yes. You know? And those accidents, you know, they led to some of the best weed ever. Yeah. You know? Yeah. In all honesty. In many people's opinion. And you know, I mean, that's, that's like a whole nother thing that steps, you know, maybe it steps on toes or doesn't to talk about all those kind of theories about various things. But I have not seen the real super skunk since I lost it, which has been, you know, quite a while at this point. Yeah. We've been hunting it for a long time. You know, I don't think it exists. You know? Yeah. There's always the possibility there are still pockets in America where, you know, people aren't really connected. They're not on the internet. They're not dialed in to like the scene, so to speak. So, I mean, obviously just like we know, right? So to jump on a European trip, everybody thought the A52 was lost for well over a decade. Yeah. Right? Yeah, at least, yeah. Nobody could find it. And then Karma found a guy that was holding onto this cut for Neville. Neville told him not to tell anybody. And it was the A52. Yeah. And Karma wasn't even sure what he had, right? So we had to give it to Yosemite, who grew with Neville forever, to grow it out and confirm it was it. So it's possible, right? It is absolutely possible. And I think we are all desperately hoping that happens too. No, yeah, it's possible that that could exist because the A5 was lost for a long time. I mean, it was a short period of time that it was lost. I mean, I think it got lost in the Switzerland raids when they shut down Shanti and those different things and it got lost in Holland during the bust eras. And then it was lost for 10, 12, 14 years, something like that until it just popped up with the last few. Last few and now losing friends fast over it. Everybody's fucking arguing over it real fast. I mean, yeah, it's cool that people are still fighting over cannabis made in the late 80s. I know, right? Do how good it is. And it's also not only as a testament to how good it is, but people want to make money off it too, some people. So if you've got rare and you've got rare access and you can bring some things, you're a breeder who operates in the market. So if you've got something nobody else does and you can hype it and it's worthy and you can, you know, I mean, that's what all these super scum people are trying to do, right? Right, that's exactly what's going on, yeah. They're trying to make a bunch of money before people realize they don't have what they have. Correct. And that's the jam, you know? A lot of people want to sell seeds or pass cuts or do this and that. And you've got a good minimum four months, three months before you're going to get any kind of pushback. Now, the other problem is that I've noticed when people either invest in buying that cut or they've invested emotionally in that cut at that point. Now they think they've got a really rare cut that's going to, you know, bring some kind of value to their life, however they see fit. And they're now in that mindset where this is it. If it's not it, I don't have whatever agenda purpose that I have. Like I was saying with the Trinity, people would get butt hurt at me sometimes when I would be like politely, it's not it. And they would do a whole thing and you don't know what I traded to get it and da-da-da-da-da-da and I'd be like, well, you know, I'm sorry about all that. Like I have nothing to do with any of that but it remains to be seen. It's still not it, it. It just isn't it, you know? And so, you know, it's gotten to a point where there's a narrow group of people who had stupor skunk it, you know? And some of them had longer relationships with it than others. And so some of them are a little bit better at identifying than others. Yes, exactly. You know? Yeah. Without naming names or stepping on toes or doing anything like that, you know? We've had issues in the past in the community with people that are well thought of or respected that verify. And once it's verified, right? Well, that's all she wrote. That's it? It's verified. You know? And then, you know, I'd hit up skunk bar or something and I'll be like, what about that verified cut? And it's like, it's not verified. It absolutely isn't it. I don't know if they ever had it if they think that's it. Yes. Right? And so, you know, like, if he tells me, if he hits me up and he tells me I think I found it, I'm gonna get excited. Yeah, absolutely. Because I tend to think him above everyone else is gonna know that cut really, really intimately being that it came from his mentor and he worked with it for so long. I mean, you know, the fact remains is that him, our buddy, and myself, we cropped it quite a bit for a year. So you do that. You do crop after crop after crop for that a bit. You run anything for a number of years as your main squeeze. You know, you learn a lot about it. Absolutely. When my buddy and I were, I mean, that's the thing too. And, you know, we've talked about this before is that since we bred with it a bunch, I got to see, you know, that's one of the things that I really respect about, you know, say like CSI or archive, who I see on here, you know, where there's only so many breeders out there right now that actually test their own gear. Sure. If you don't test your own gear, you don't really know what traits your clones pass. Yeah, you're never gonna see it firsthand, ever. You don't see how they breed. Do they breed clean? Do they breed a mess? Do they throw consistent phenotypes? Do they, you know, growing a bunch of, growing a bunch of, oh man. Truth ban, someone's asking about truth ban. And yeah, that's a little bit of a subject. So, but, yeah, you know, but, so we grew, you know, buddy from Staten Island and myself, we grew out hundreds of, you know, dog and skunk and other various skunk hybrids, you know, and we saw what it passed, you know? You see what it throws out, you know? And so a lot of the various like semi-proven, semi-unproven theories I have about certain things we've talked about a bunch are just on my observation of like not very many people like had both parents. Yeah. Gunk va, my buddy, myself, we're like literally in like a handful of people that probably had both. Yeah. And we're familiar with both. Yes. So, and all that. And so, you know, I mean, you know, the skunk definitely seemed to be connected to herms. Yes. The, you know, when we were doing the super dog stuff, if we bred away from the herms, we bred away from some of the stuff we liked. But then the trick was to try to find like a minimal or acceptable amount of herms. Yeah. Okay, like say take the Kim D, for instance. Yes. Kim D herms like crazy at times. If it gets a little test, especially in depth. Sure. You know, not as much as indoor, but in depth, certainly, or if it gets a little stressed. Sure. But it's not live pollen. Yeah, it's not, it's not, it's sterile. It throws bananas, but there's not really live pollen in those bananas, you know? So then you're looking for, you're looking for, you know, one throws herms and has the stink, but doesn't have the danger inherent in all that, you know? Yeah. It was a long and expensive breeding project because back then, you know, obviously herb went for a lot more and it was a lot riskier. So anytime you dedicated rooms or areas to constant breeding that could have been just some kind of production run and then you're not even selling the beans, they're just for you and your friends. But, you know, we had, we always had dual stuff. Like we always had this goal of trying to like, you know, improve the gene pool a little bit, you know? Create more weed that we liked. And so now it's like most people's breeding is like take two famous things that people want, mash them together, and then sell the name. Yeah. Right? Where it's like, we were like, okay, like we like the skunk smell and we like the color and we like the, you know, the quickness and all that. Can we marry that to the dog's potency and feeling and warm, happy buzz and all that? Is there some hybrid that we can create that marries those two things together? Sure. And so that's obviously the classic way to breed is you look at two different things and you're like, I want traits from this and traits from this to end up in its progeny. Yeah. Right? You know? And so that's really the gig. So, you know, sadly it seems like a bunch of the stuff that got passed, it got passed around in Massachusetts quite a bit more, but it seems like from what we've been able to determine that it, maybe it, the actual cut itself wasn't passed around nearly as much as people think. Maybe in one, maybe bag seed, maybe something different got passed out and it got called super skunk and it was from said dude. So of course it's it and then you're off to the races and then that thing gets spread around. And then the more, you know, I mean, we've talked about this before too, but like, you know, Rez calling his fucking line sour diesel sucks because any time a named cut and then makes a fucking line out of it, finding the actual named cut once there's a whole bunch of, you know, other stuff out there that has the same name is problematic. Yeah, and it became damn near impossible in some cases with that. You know, and, you know, and so I mean, you know, the, I think the super skunk has a semi, there's, obviously there's some pretty famous people in the weed community that had it. So that ends like some gravitas to the fact that it was killer and then it was killer and then it comes from this 90s historical era, obviously, right? And, you know, and then on top of that, it probably is in a bunch of other things that people don't realize it's in, right? Correct. And everybody knows what a rank skunk smells like. Everybody in America for the most part is probably in America, yeah. And so it's a really distinctive turf. Yeah. Right? And it doesn't exist. Or vile. It does vile. You know, I mean, some people on here know, some people don't, but I got lucky enough and I cracked them and what became known as the Mendo P, you know? And what's interesting about that cut is that, like if that cut didn't exist, there's no other line that I know of that has those turps. Yeah. Those turps are in cannabis, obviously. Yeah, they're obviously in cannabis, but it's very unique. The modern cannabis and anything you find that ends up smelling like that, you discover it was descended from that. Yeah. Right? And so, you know, the skunk knows, in my opinion, really only pops out here and there in its descendants on occasion. Yes. Mendo purps. Yes. Mendo purple, indeed. So, you know, and so it just doesn't even, it, nobody's found it. Nobody's made the turps. Nobody's found the turps. Nobody's been able to produce seed lines or cuttings anytime because if they did, it would be announced. They would be at conventions or Emerald Cup or whatever with jars and they would be, you know, it's a lost turp that people want back. Anyone who can capture that, that thiol turp into a seed line that really produces it and let it stay in the bud form is gonna master it, you know? So, so it's obviously a lot of constituents of it. But man, trying to get something that really hangs with that smell past flower is very, very hard to do. Yeah. And so everybody, it's got universal recognition of what it should smell like. Yes. There's a whole bunch of fake cuts that people try to pretend smell like it, right? Yeah. It really could smell like it, you know? And so with it, there's no faking the funk. Unless you have skunk oil and you can rub it on a jar. I mean, yeah, and all that, and all that. It's like the scientific method, right? Like if somebody can't grow it and produce the same smell, it's not there. Yeah, exactly. It wasn't like you had to do a bomber job of growing it, dude. You know, I mean, obviously in the 90s, we've all gotten quite a bit better at gardening. Oh yeah, yeah. Older, you get more experienced, you learn more. There's way cooler products that make your life easier, you know, and I mean, we used to mix soil in a fucking cement mixer. Yeah. From raw mennics. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It wasn't all these biological amendments. There wasn't all these like, you know, inoculants and booze and teas and this and that. Like there is now, it was like, there was like GH and, you know, earth juice and I mean, even just the stuff that you could get and like you were just happy that the store carried. Yeah, for sure. Pretty limited compared to now, you know. Yeah. And so that turp just, it just existed. You grew it, you grew it, someone's saying about the Mendo perps. It is not from the Pacific Northwest. No. Turpenbird, think about that question for a second. Think about that question. Is Mendo perps from the PNW? I mean, you know, it's cool, dude. Any, whoever asked that, any question is cool. No, Turpenbird's cool. Yeah. Fuck them. Down to it, like most, that's the thing, right? Is that just so, you know, like, you know, Matt and I are going to do a, we're going to do a podcast pretty soon here and chat about history. And really what it boils down to for me is like, without the, I don't really give a shit about fame or rep or anything like that. Most of our history in the cannabis community is oral, you know, passed down from people to people. And there are people that have heard the real deal and have verified and cross verified type stuff, you know? But it can be really hard for people to come along later or don't have personal connection to something. I mean, bullshit spreads like wildfire at times, you know? And certain people have vested interests in spreading bullshit. And so, you know, counteracting that with truth. And, you know, so, but yeah, you know, it really is. It is, it's an underground, it was an underground illegal venture and lots of little individual groups, you know, like passing on knowledge to each other, you know? And it just so happens that, you know, like the Grateful Dead and the kids that followed the Grateful Dead, that was probably like the greatest open air weed market in American history at a certain point. Oh yeah. And after Jerry died, started growing weed because it kept the lifestyle going. And for a while now it's not true anymore, you know? We're just a segment, but for a minute, you know, in the 90s and mid 2000s, like almost all the best and most famous cuts came from some hippie or another. Some crew, you know? Some related group. And you're only so far removed from all those people because it's a smaller world. So, you know, it, you know, most of this stuff, I just got lucky in the sense that, you know, I mean, you have no idea what's gonna be famous or not. All this- No you don't. We're doing like, you know, the dog didn't get famous until Skunkva decided to get on forums and start chatting about it. Sure. Nobody knew who, you know, except for on the East, nobody knew who Chem Dog was. Nobody knew P-Bud was. Nobody knew any of these people's names or what they were involved with or anything else, you know? Sure. And, you know, so it's like, you know, all this stuff kind of happens after the fact, you know? All right. When you're just like, you're just kids. We're closing down on this first episode. I don't know how much time you have and I don't want to take any, you got a busy, busy guy with all your family, but if you want, we could start re-initiated. Can continue again for a minute. Yeah, actually, my family is grocery shopping right now, so I don't know. Okay, perfect time. All right, well, I'm gonna end it, I'll restart the live feed, and then we'll continue on to kind of like what we're seeing with Giesel and stuff like that. Word. All right, see you in a few.