 My name is Beth Livingston, I currently live in Greensboro, North Carolina and today we're going to talk about how to hold on to more of your project profits by using a Content First approach. But as always at WordCamp First, I'm going to tell you a little bit about me. That's my head shot from when I did that little stint in New York. I don't look like that anymore, wish I did. But this was my avatar everywhere online for a while and then I felt like I was being not genuine by having a picture from 2006 up there. But I do have a master's degree in education. My website is WP Roadmaps and you can get me at that email address. I spent 25 years or more, we won't say how many. As a business analyst in the IT consulting space, it's mostly in the financial industry. Let me get my slides down here please, sorry. So back in 2009, that was during the couponing craze, everybody didn't have any money because it doesn't market and crash and all that, but I hate couponing. So I was going to create this web app where you could create a profile of the stuff you always buy and just tell you where it's on sale, Food Lion, Harris Teeter, Publix, wherever. Great idea. The time I actually got it launched when I left corporate IT in 2016, nobody gave a crap. The economy had improved. Who knew that a growing economy could make your product obsolete? I just didn't know where my audience was. So I said, you know what I'm going to do instead because now I've learned so much about WordPress, I'm going to start building roadmaps like a complete solution, how to do a membership site, how to do an e-commerce site, front to back, what are the right plug-ins, what are the right this and that. And then I met Adam Prizer. Does anybody know who that is? W.P. Crafter. He has a great Facebook page, a great YouTube channel and he's already doing that and he's doing a really good job. The man can create 20 videos a day. He's amazing and he does all kinds of evaluations and tests of these plug-ins. So I'm still in his group and he's really good. I got to meeting when I was in California. So he made my business obsolete, what I was planning to do. And then I started going to work camps and meetups and started hearing all these complaints about fighting scope creep and how do I get content from the customer and all these things that I know how to do because I did it for 25 years in IT. So I decided to start doing my services for you guys, WordPress deliverers. You know, I hate calling, I'm getting the dry now. Let me tell you, you can get up on the stage and pretend to be somebody else, not be nervous at all. You get six weeks of rehearsal, you know exactly what you're going to say, but standing up here in front of my peeps, I guess you're a little nervous and your mouth gets dry. So forgive me for that. So I just started, decided to start creating things for you all. And then I delivered a talk at WordCamp Asheville last year and people came up to me and said, oh my God, we need this, we need you, we need all of this in our community. So now I do real life project management skills for WordPress practitioners. So I could keep the same name, WP Road Maps, it's just my road maps are about different things now. So that's where I am. Oh, now before we get into the content for today, I need y'all's help with something, okay? I am getting ready to launch a product later this month and I'm doing that with live webinars, okay? So I'm going to show you two titles on the next slide and then I want by a show of hands for you to tell me which of those titles would grab your attention and make you want to attend a live webinar online, okay? Will you help me? Yeah, okay, great, thanks. Okay, so these are my possible masterclass topics. Five surprising secrets to increasing WordPress project profits without raising your prices and the subtitle is, How Simple Process Changes Can Get 100% Of Your, look, I take lessons from Amy Porterfield, she's like the digital course queen of the world and she says not to worry about how long the title is, the important thing is to get the point across. So 100% of your projects completed on time and under budget and delight your clients. That's the first one. Number two is why your WordPress design and development skills are no longer enough and what to do about it. Eight client questions you need to be prepared to answer to win the project even if they don't ask. And then your last choice is neither, either because you never sign up for webinars, you don't like either one of those topics or you have some other reason that I would like for you to tell me privately in the hall, okay? So how many people like number one better? Raise your hand please. Okay, six. How many like number two better? Okay, excellent. And how many people here are actual like an agency, you're building websites for other people? Okay. Which one did you say you like better? Oh, you're in the number three category. See anytime the title is kind of salesy or kind of pitchy, the really geeky people don't like it. Are you a developer? Are you a developer? I mean that is a term of endearment, you know that. I really appreciate that help, y'all. Yes, Zach? So if I do topic number two, if I do topic number two, will you sign up? Yeah? Well, I need you to be there anyway because I just need some support. This would be my first live webinar, y'all. Yeah, well my target market is developers who manage WordPress projects. Did you want to say something? I have five surprising secrets and eight questions. You know, I had it that way and I put it out on a couple of WordPress Facebook groups and they hated it. It was probably a bunch of geeky people. I'm just kidding. Okay, let's move on to the real content, huh? You think that'll grab people more? Yeah, okay. Well, I'm doing a total of four so I was trying to decide should I do two of them. That's a great way to do the A-B testing is do the first two using one and the second two doing the other and see how it turns out. Okay. All right, so let's move on to the actual content. Okay, so what are you going to learn today? Oh, I wanted to tell you that one of the things that Amy says is, you know, you really need to get in front of your ideal customer avatar or ICA, as she calls it. And that's one of one thing I love about WordPress. You are all my ICA's. So I love that. I did want to mention that. So you're going to learn why should you even think about content first development? See, there's a lot of people out there talking about content first design and I'm going to tell you the difference between the two in a minute, but nobody's talking about. I think it goes further than that. I think it needs to be content first all the way through the development project process. How content first development differs from content first design, the six steps of content collection, five content first best practices, and how all of this helps you hold on to your profits more. So let's do a little audience participation before we move on to the details of this right here. Everybody stand up, please. Okay. Please sit down if you have completed less than five paid WordPress projects, okay? If you have ever had a project, if you have ever had a project stall while waiting on content from the client, sit down, okay? If you have ever completed content activities for the client when it wasn't in the original plan, sit down. Yeah, you are all in the right place. Okay. So to a lot of you, this little scenario, I'm getting ready to say will sound very familiar. You got a new client, you've done a great, you know, it was kind of like what Emily was talking about earlier this morning. You've got a great client, a new client. You've done a great job defining the solution and identifying the content the client needs to provide. You've worked with the client to agree upon a schedule to which they will provide the content. You accept a 50% deposit. You get to work on the website. You'll get the other 50% at the end. And the client's first content deadline comes and they don't deliver. So you gently remind them, you coax them, you plead with them. You send them, they end up sending you part of the agreed upon content. And then it takes several weeks to get the rest. In the meantime, you take on another project to make up for the delay in cash flow. And just when that project is in full swing, the first client finally delivers their content and wants you to meet the originally agreed upon date. So chances are, if you have been doing this for any period of time, you've experienced something similar to that scenario. I'm going to tell you why that doesn't work. Here's the traditional development method. The first thing that's wrong with this graphic is that the phases are not all the same size, but you see where content sticks right in the middle and that's where your project is always going to stall. So we're going to talk about a completely different way to structure your payment schedule and just give up that 50% stuff. It does not work. So let me ask you this question. How long, if you had everything up on the shelf, all your plugins, you already knew how you were going to configure them, you already knew all of that, and you had all your content right there waiting for you. How long would it actually take you to build a website? Right, well, depending on how many pages. If it's a five-page brochure site, I can do that in an hour, right? Okay, so this is the best of all possible worlds and exactly where we want to be. So the difference is a content-first design is that you consider the totality of the content before creating the design. Doesn't mean that you have it all in your hand as you're considering it. And I, this was actually clarified by Jennifer Bourne in Orange County when she gave a talk and said, she was talking about how people, she doesn't believe in content-first development, that you get all the content up front. She says, this is what content design was supposed to be, okay? But there's another piece which is content-first development and I believe because the result of content-first design is that you get a design that best accommodates the content. Content-first development is that you don't build until you get all the content. And the result is, you get the same result as content-first design, plus it puts the proper resource and control. The project is less likely to stall, development time is reduced, and that helps you to hold on to more of your RLI. So I just showed you how development time can go to practically nothing if you've got everything all lined up. But there's a lot of, there's a lot of issues, I mean, a lot of best practices, a lot of processes that you're probably gonna need to change if you wanna employ this, this procedure. So the six steps of content collection are determine the initial content requirements, craft an initial content estimate, set client expectations regarding content, refine content needs, populate your content collection mechanism, and manage the content collection activities. And we're gonna go into each one of these a little more deeply. But before we do that, I hate to say this. I'm in a lot of these WordPress Facebook groups, okay? And they classify people into two groups. Notice I'm not doing the classifying, okay? This is the way I hear, there are button pushers and then there are consultants, okay? So you're either just, you're gonna build websites and that's all you're gonna do or you're gonna manage the project. And even the ones that tout themselves as consultants have the client's content activity if the client insists on doing the content as one giant chunk and they don't do any estimating for it. That's silly. You're the project manager. You have to figure out how big is that task and make the client aware of how big the task is. And a lot of times, it'll make me realize they're not qualified to do it. I have a blog article on my website, how to convince your client they are not the right resource for content. Okay, so if you're gonna determine initial content requirements, the first thing you're gonna do is start with a visual site map. Then you are, you're gonna then take that stuff that's on the site map and see how many regular pages you have, how many gallery pages, how many product pages. I break it down into those three groups because anything that's not a gallery or product page is a regular page. So why are you estimating content? It was just what I said a minute ago. It is your job to manage the project, not just the part you're doing but the whole project and your client will thank you for this. So it's our job to manage the project. You create a rough order of magnitude of the content that's going to be required for this website and you show that to the client. It can be a selling tool if you offer copywriting services or you have a partner that does the copywriting for you. You can send them some business this way. And it also is a good basis for your initial project estimate. I'm gonna go off on a little soapbox here for a second. And Emily brought it up this morning too. Stop calling it a quote. It is not a quote, it is an estimate because estimates change. Quotes is like the guy's coming to build a fence in your yard. He can measure it, he knows exactly what materials he's gonna use and exactly how much it's gonna cost. Until you do a deep dive, until you get really into the nitty gritty details of your customer's business requirements, you can't give them an accurate, almost an accurate estimate, which you can't say either, because there's no such thing. Estimate, it implies that it will change and it will probably change over the course of the project. That's a whole nother topic for another day. Okay, so to do this, what I do is I take each one of those pages individually, I list them on a spreadsheet. I should spreadsheet and I estimate, okay, how many paragraphs do I think are gonna be on that page? How many images? How many videos? Products? Forms? And tables? Because all of those, that's all the forms of content that I generally use, okay? So there's an example of, I have a tool, it's content estimator tool, and it does the calculation on the last tab for all of this. This is just an example of how I do it. I'm kinda old school too, y'all. I've been around since Windows was a toy and no self-respecting business would use a Mac. Okay, so this is the final page of my rough order of magnitude estimate, where then I give, okay, if it takes 15 minutes to write a paragraph, and that's just an arbitrary number I pulled out of the sky, okay? So whatever you think is the estimate there, and five minutes per image, eight hours per video, and so forth. And then I came up with a total number of man hours. And when you show that to a client, it's impactful. Then they finally go, I don't think we can write all that content by the due date. And then it convinces them to get help. All right, setting the client expectations regarding content. It's first, you need a content management process. You need to write it down, and you need to share it with your client when you're going through the proposal. This is how we handle content. Now, if you're doing the content first thing, then you need to explain that to them. You wanna explain common content issues. This is another one of my big things I get on my soapbox about. You have to be brutally honest with the client about things that typically go wrong in a project. Don't just not mention them, because you're gonna try to not, for it not to happen, it's gonna happen. So tell them, usually content stalls when the client doesn't meet their delivery date, and we're gonna put some processes in place to make sure that doesn't happen. How can they not like that? Your job is, if they're not necessarily the best resource for the job, that's part of your job is to convince them they're not. I don't care how much money they think they're gonna save. It's not in their best interest in the long run. And then explain to them what's gonna happen if the content is not delivered on time, and then you show them that rough order of magnitude. So that's how you set the client's expectations regarding content. It's very important. Another thing you can do is incentivize. Here's what I sometimes do. If during the first couple of meetings, I'm getting the feeling, because trust your gut, all right? If you're feeling like they're not probably gonna get it done on time, they're probably not. Like they're overworked or their staff is just too busy. I sometimes, and I do not pad estimates, okay? But I will add like 500 bucks to the estimate and say, if you get your content in on time, I will take 500 off the total. So I'm not really out any money, but they feel like they got a bargain, and it gives them an incentive to get that done. Or $1,000 or $5,000, whatever you want to use. So when you, step four, did I go too far? Hold on, now I'm trying to go backwards, hold on. Oh, step three, we were still in step three, which is set the client expectations. Okay, step four, refine the content needs. This is when you review the rough order of magnitude with the client. Assign the activities, because you've had conversations about who is going to do it, it could be you, could be the client, could be a third party. So you got to assign those activities, create your content specification. You can use a variety of things to do that. So, populate the content collection mechanism, all right? Depending on the complexity of your project and your client and their ability to handle technology, there are a number of tools you can use. I use slick plan to create site maps, but I'm moving over to content snare for getting the content from the client. And then sometimes, if it's really small, she's a spreadsheet, and I manage the client, or just paper. I do have some, I'm working on some paper templates for content specification, and you can just translate that into whatever tool you decide to use. You know, every online tool, every theme, every plugin, every hosting company, it's all like religion. Everybody thinks their way is the only way to heaven and everybody else is misguided. So don't listen to all that crappy here online about this hosting company sucks and all that stuff. I was so happy to hear Chris say that, cuz I've been preaching that forever. Cuz if you get better at your job, chances are the bad hosting company that was bad ten years ago, that has a bad reputation, they're probably better at their job now too. So, it's just my thing. All right, step six, manage the content collection activities. Break the job down for the client, I make it easy for them. Give them little goals to reach, and then they feel like they've satisfied themselves. Or if you're doing that incentivized thing, you can give them a little piece of money every time they meet a deadline, and eek it out that way. Then it's your job to ensure that the content is being delivered to the repository, whatever that is, paper, a tool, whatever. Ensure that content is being delivered in the proper format. Have regular status calls with the client. This is another thing I can't believe people don't do. I mean in corporate IT, every week come hell or while I water you had a project status meeting. And everybody had to talk about the action items from last week and what you got done and what you didn't get done. And then not only helps the client, it helps your relationship with the client, but it helps you know where you are. And then offer help to the client if they need it, but always charge. And if there are signs that the dates will be missed, invoke the change control process immediately. How many people have a written change control process? Wait for the rest of the question that you follow without exception. Exactly, see this is the problem. You need to put a change control process in place. Good news for you, I got a free one for you. On my website, if you got a WP red maps forward slash templates, I have a sample change control process you can download. You do have to give me your email address. It's an opt in, sorry. But for your email address, you're gonna get some good content here. Okay, so let's talk about content first best practices. When is my time up? I feel like I'm going long already. Do I go all the way to 12? Okay, content first best practices. Use a two step proposal process, and I'll explain that in a little more detail in a minute. Restructure your payment schedule, embrace the idea of a minimum viable website. Structure the project plan for content first, and automate where possible. That should be the last step in everything you do, automate where possible. All right, so let's talk about this two step proposal process. I'm gonna tell you right now, it's not for everybody. Some people complain about this. It's, oh, that's overkill for WordPress project. I can get everything I need in that first meeting with the client. I say, I called the yes, but that's what they say. Just making that disclaimer, this is not for everybody. All right, so let me describe it to you. I should have put it on the slide, but okay, when I do a proposal, and Emily talked about this, about not being too precise in your proposal. I give a range estimate of cost, and a range estimate for time. And then I make the first phase, the deep dive discovery, and they give me a deposit. If they accept the proposal, they give me a deposit that covers all the way through that process. So, I give them the option to back out after that. But only if the new estimate that after I did the deep dive, and then if we found things that we didn't know about, they get documented. The client is right there with you the whole way, so they are fully aware of why the second estimate is more. But generally, most of the time, it doesn't exceed. So, if it doesn't exceed, they don't get a chance to cancel. But if it goes over the original estimate, then I give them the option to cancel. They hardly ever do, though, because they've been there with you the whole time. But if they do, I just hand them that detailed statement of work. They've already paid for it. They go off and find somebody else to implement my solution. And that's the other thing that happens. Sometimes when all we do is drop off a proposal and say, you know, just call me, or I'll call you in a day or two. Never a good idea, always a walk through. But so you hand a statement of work and go on to a client that suits you better. So there's always another client around the corner, and we tend to make allowances on our processes and the things that we do, because we don't want to lose the client. There's another one down the street, trust me. So when you use this two-step proposal process, you don't have to pad the estimate, because you're just doing a global estimate to begin with. Then you're getting down into the deep dive and documenting, as you go, things you find that are going to change the first estimate. So by using this process, you get rid of the pad. It prevents doing a lot of work for zero dollars. How many people have spent hours, hours, hours and hours on a proposal? And it is the killer proposal of all time, and you know you've nailed it, and you hear crickets. Happens to everybody. Don't do that. It's okay if you know what the client needs. Don't write it all down. Make it, I forget the words that Emily used this morning, but you need to be, you know, tell what the stuff is without saying all the nitty-gritty detail, because they don't care. They just want to know that you're going to get their business needs met with their website. Some of them care about the design and the color, but they don't care about your technical skills. Okay, restructure the payment schedule. This is how I do it, okay? So other people might do it a little differently, but this is how I make sure I get paid for that deep dive discovery. Upon acceptance of the proposal, they give me that deposit that covers me all the way through the statement of work. Upon acceptance of the statement of work, I usually get 50% of whatever's left. Then we go to client, we go to content activities. At the completion of testing, now see, my phases are a little different, so this is kind of a generic thing. I'll show, I don't think I have the phases that I use in here, but basically I have development testing in the same phase. So at the end of development and testing, you get, I use 50%, then I get 50% of whatever's left. And then at the completion of training, that's when the rest of the funds are due. Notice I didn't say at launch, because there's people, some of you may have had this happen, where you've built it on the client's environment, bad idea. You built it on the client's environment, you get all the way down to acceptance, and you never get paid for that last leg. And this is another reason I do it this way, because if that were to happen, it doesn't happen because I don't make it live on their site until after I've gotten those all remaining funds. But if it does happen, it's only a little fraction of the money because I've been getting these incremental payments for different milestones in the project plan. Does that make sense? All right, embrace the minimum viable website. Okay, so you've got a client, maybe they're moving a site, so they've got some content, right? But they want to do all this stuff, and you already know that it's not going to happen by that due date. Then start with what they have and go ahead, try to convince them to launch with a minimum. But what is the very minimum that you need to have out there to meet your business requirements? Do that, and then we'll do the rest in a phase two after we do the deep dive discovery and collect all the content. Does that make sense? Okay, structure the project plan for, oh yeah, here are my phases. Now this will make more sense. So I call phase zero a zero because I don't consider the project until the proposal's been accepted. So my first phase in my process is proposal creation, and that's where I estimate the needed content. Then project definition is where I identify who's going to do it and when, and I estimate again. It's another thing we think we can do this estimate at the beginning of the project and never estimate again. That's cray cray. So you got to estimate all along the project. And of course if this is a five page brochure site that you finish in a week, this is a little bit of overkill, okay? But the principles still apply, so you can scale it down. Then I do design and preparation. This is when the client, the third party, or me, collects all the content as well as getting the environment set up. And I may do a mock-up, but no development work has taken place yet at all. First three phases, no development work. Then development and testing, and then deployment and training, which is weird because development becomes almost the anti-climax of the whole thing. Because if you've got that plan and everything up on the shelf ready to go, development's easy, testing's easier, deployment and training are both easier. And then automate where possible. And I showed you some of these things before. One new thing on the market that just came out is WP Feedback. It's a new plug-in. Most of those others are external to WordPress. They're just for anybody, any kind of project. WP Feedback is a way to get, I've not actually had time to look at it. I wanted to, but I haven't. Excuse me, but I do know that the premise is that you have built either mock pages or actually on the site that you're building and your client can come in and leave comments on specific areas of the website. Like change this color of this button to a different color or whatever their comments are. So how many learn something so far that they want to incorporate into their business? Please raise your hand. Really, just five of you? Kidding, there's more people back there. Great. Okay, so let's do a little recap. The six steps of content collection. Determine your requirements. Craft the content estimate. Set your client expectations regarding content. Refine the content needs. Populate your content collection mechanism. Manage the content collection activities. And our best practices, when you're implementing, are using a two-step approval process or some way that you get paid for that deep dive. Restructure your payment schedule. Embrace the idea of the minimum viable website. Structure the project plan for content first and automate where possible. Now, if you want to learn more, I have some freebies on my website. One is how to use a project notebook for making yourself better at what you do. And I'm going to change that cover. I just really fell in love with the scope creep wa-poo. You guys are familiar with wa-poo, right? I love him. He's a villain. They call him a villain. But I don't like the cover. Anyway, six easy ways to control scope creep in your project proposal. And that one actually has some language in it that you could maybe scarf out and use in your own projects. And then I also, the last one, I base all of what I'm teaching and what I do on the six principles of productivity management for software development that John Keen developed back in the 80s. And I've taken those six principles and modified them and made them specific for WordPress. And so that is like a little short mini course so that you can sign up for and go through the modules and it talks about all those principles. And, you know, Chris talked about one this morning. It's common sense stuff that we forget, like defining the job in detail before you start getting to work. You know, that was actually one of the things Chris mentioned as one of the mistakes he made when the client accepted too quickly because he didn't really do enough discovery. Oh, and again, if you want that sample change control procedure, go to WPRedMinds.com forward slash templates. Or there's also a templates menu item on the main page. Or these two Facebook groups. One of them is WordPress Project Management. I administer that one. Hold on please. The other one is the Admin Bar. There's two guys that run it. They have a podcast and this Facebook group. And they focus more on the business side, streamlining the business side of what you do. They evaluate different tools. They put different processes in place and they're very open about it. And they're just really fun to hang out with. I love them. So that's another one you might want to check out. My name's Beth Livingston and that's my presentation. And I would certainly love it if you liked what you heard here today. If you could give me some social media love, I would certainly appreciate that. And then, oh, if you just want to be kept abreast of this product I have coming out and you don't want any of those freebies and you just, you know, you can just text roadmaps to 444-999 and you will get on my email list. And then I will let you know about this product I have coming out that I think you'll really like. Are there any questions? That always scares me when there aren't any questions. I can't be that good. Do you have any slides there? Oh, yes. There's also a menu item on my main page for WordCamp. And it's got all of my talks there. It's got the slides for all of them and then it's got the videos from the ones that have been posted on WordPress.tv. And if you don't know about WordPress.tv, that's where they post all the WordCamp talks. So if you saw something on the schedule today that you missed and you really wanted to go to it, you still have an opportunity to watch it. I love that because I really wanted to go to Europe and I don't get to go. So I'm anxious to watch the talks from Europe. That'll be interesting. Really no questions about content first. Is anybody going to try it? Yeah, just go to my blog. Showing them that ROM. I mean, that's the biggest one right there. You know, and just I can't even remember what all I put in there. But it's like a checklist. I'm sorry. I can't remember what is in my blog article. I just wrote it last week. It was one of those things where you just said, ooh, I need to shoot this off. It goes real fast and it comes out really good so you go ahead and post it. But I didn't really think too much about it because it's kind of common sense to me. Is anybody going to try this? Any of this? Yes, you are? Okay, good. Which piece of it do you like the best? Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, that's another thing that people tend to struggle with and complain about. My client just doesn't understand how much effort it's put into all this and they don't understand how a project runs and they don't understand this. If you are saying my client doesn't understand, that's your fault. You need to explain it to them. They don't work and they don't have their head and all this geeky stuff all the time like we do. I'm shocked how much they don't know. Whatever you think your client knows, subtract 70%. And then teach it to them that way. I mean, that's why those dummies books came out, y'all. Because my dad told me before those books came out, he said, you need to write a book that shows dummies how to use computers and then those books came out. It was very interesting. Well, okay, so I finished up a little early. Oh, the Facebook groups, yeah, sure. Anybody else? Question? I must just be a kick-ass teacher, that's all. Uh-oh, are you going to have to edit that out of the video? Was that a bad word? I said one in Atlanta. No, where was it? Miami. No, it was here last year. I said a bad word in my speech and I immediately went to the cameraman and said, oh my God, oh my God, can you edit that out? And he said, it's already gone. I was like, yes. So, yes. But I'm not really a cursor, but sometimes you just need a curse word. Yes, exactly. Oh, a question. I'm so happy. Motivate clients to deliver content? Okay. It's hard to break it down into only content, right? Because setting the client expectations, you need to include your processes in your proposal. And you need to go over each one of those proposals, each one of those processes with the client. You're doing two things here. Remember, you're shopping for a client too. They're not just shopping for a provider, you get to pick. So if you're walking through this proposal and they're saying, well, that seems like a lot of work. Well, that, I don't like, you mean I got, I use a change budget. Okay, this isn't part of this topic, but I'm going to tell you real quick. If you did a true estimate using real hours and real stuff and didn't just pull a number out of the air, and then you take a percentage of that I usually use 20 to 30% depending on the client and add that to the project, it's not a pad. It's set aside in a change budget. They're in control of that change budget, and when you implement your change control process, they get to decide, are we going to use that money out of that bucket or not? It seriously reduces the frivolous request for change, gets them motivated to get their stuff done on time because that change budget, it means if I lose time, we're losing money too, right? So that's one way I do it, is with the change control procedure. And if they balk at that, if they balk at the change budget, bye-bye. Or what do they say now, bye Sheila? I don't get what that means, but anyway. Does that help at all? Okay. Anybody else? All right, let's go have lunch. And let me just say, I am, oh, I wanted to tell y'all, did I tell you that? Last year, WordCamp Asheville changed my life. Yeah, okay, so I gave that top, and because it was so well received, is when I said, this is what I need to do. I need to create something for these people that helps them with that, and that all happened here at WordCamp. And if I hadn't been at WordCamp, I would have been floundering around forever, trying to figure out what it is I needed to do to pull all of my talents together. So, and you know what, don't you feel like it's kind of like summer camp for geeks? I love it. I love being with all you people. So, go out, have lunch, meet somebody new. Bye y'all, thank you.