 Okay, everybody, it's five past one. Andrew, if you'd like to continue recording, resume, I can do that. Okay, so my name is Tony Leliot, and I am going to take you through the next session, which is on publish open access. And just to let you know, I work at the organization called Sadie, and we run a few initiatives, one of which is OER Africa. And it's OER Africa, who is partnering, collaborating with Affleah to run these particular really short of workshops. And there are certainly professional development sessions. So I just wanted to give you an indication. Why are we actually, how did we come up with this idea of learning pathways to start with? We came up with them from our experience over many years. We've worked across Africa for many years in Sadie. And most professional development for staff appears to be, in the past, appeared to be workshops, which took people out of their workplaces. They went along to the workshop, to a hotel, had some nice food, learned a few things, and then went back to their workplaces and did exactly the same as they did before. They didn't really necessarily implement the stuff they'd learned in the workshop. So what we're doing here in these learning pathways is experimenting with other ways of providing professional development for people. And we actually came up with these about two years ago, and we've been developing over the last year these three learning pathways. And we had set them up as standalone online tutorials. And we never expected what happened in the world in sort of February, March, April, the fact that people couldn't travel and actually now, if they wanted professional development, they needed to be online. We never expected that, of course, when we set these up originally. But that's how we came up with them because we thought, well, workshops are okay, face-to-face workshops, but let's look at alternatives. And now, in a way, we're forced to use this alternative, at least for the time being. Why do we call them learning pathways? Well, we actually hummed and hard about this. They are actually tutorials. They're sort of online self-study tutorials. But we're sort of thinking of each page of what Andrew was showing you earlier as a sort of little tutorial in itself. So we came up with the idea of learning pathways of tutorials. So they're like mini tutorials all put together into a learning pathway. And what I'm going to cover then is the idea of the open access, publish open access learning pathway. Just want to remind you, we would like you to, it's interesting, I'm trying to, okay, I was, okay. I'm trying to show you a bit about this concept of open access publishing. We would like you to access these through the Moodle, as Andrew explained earlier. If you do everything through Moodle, you will get your certificate at the end. However, if those of you are deciding, well, I just like to just do a little bit on open access publishing, you can go straight into the learning pathway. And after this set of pilots are through, we're working with Affleah July into early August. Once this set of pilots are through, people can just go into OER Africa website and look at the learning pathways. So, however, Affleah will also keep them on Moodle, and they will be able to present to people using the Moodle. So, if I just want to make sure my technology is working okay, I've got on my screen now, publish using open access, and Ken, can you just confirm that you can see the learning pathway where it says start course? I can see that. Great. Okay. Thanks very much. So, that's what this is about. And if we go straight into start course, we can, and I'll just move it across so you can... So, down the left-hand side are the various sections. And I will... All I'm going to do today is give you an introduction, a taster. I'm not going to try and spend too much time on it, but I will stop from time to time and ask you to give me an answer to a question. This is what we envisage for this learning pathway. We've got a little graphic at the beginning, and we're going to try... There's an introduction to it. Why would people want to consider? Now, many of you might publish. As librarians, you might publish in your own right, but you also, in your position, should be able to advise your colleagues, academic colleagues, lecturers about publishing. And that's the purpose of this learning pathway. Why should people consider open access publishing? And we'll look a little bit at that. We're not trying to say, do all your publishing in open access journals. We're not saying that. But it should be an option for people, and they might want to consider it if they haven't considered it before. I'm... All I work at Sadie now, I'm a former academic. I worked at the University of the Mitvatersrand in Johannesburg, called Witz University in Johannesburg, for 21 years. So I am an academic by background. I've obviously published reasonably extensively, and I've supervised students publishing as well, their own work. So the idea of open access publishing. And then we go on to the various options, the various options in publishing. And then we move on to probably the most important part, which is choosing a journal. What journal should you choose? And when people think of open access publishing, they sometimes think of this, if you can see it, we'll talk about it a little bit later. The idea of predatory or deceptive publishing. So not to avoid those sorts of journals. And then the learning pathway finishes off with other open movements, just to give you a link into the other open movements there are. And there is an assignment, which if you're doing this through middle, we'd like you to do and submit to us. So that's essentially what this learning pathway is all about. Here are the outcomes, which summarizes that, what it is, why publish that way, what are your options, choosing a journal, and then the other open movements. So I'm just going to say, start a little bit. Open access publishing. And all the way through, as Andrew showed you, we would like you to consider all the questions as you go through. Don't just read through it and then go on. You read through it and we'd like you to actually, in your mind, or even in a little journal, if you keep a journal of your own, many academics and librarians keep a journal to jot down ideas. I don't, in a way, this is my journal. This is the stuff I just, stuff I write down and keep. It's a good idea. So you might want to write down your answer to that in your own journal. And I'm not going to ask you that question now. We'll be asking you some questions later on, but we introduced the idea of open access through a video. And I'll just start off the video. I won't run it all the way through, but here's the video of what is open access. And I'll just run it within the link here. It's not connecting easily at the moment for some reason. Maybe it's my bandwidth. It's telling me to restart my device. Okay. It may be because I went straight into this without, stop it. I don't want to restart anything because that can give us, can give us problems. Okay. Now it's stuck on the, it's stuck on this page. Do you want me to share my screen? Yeah. Because mine was, I didn't test this one this morning. Had it tested from yesterday. So if you'd like to open the learning pathways, what you want. The, yeah, it's the coming up. Okay. Thank you. What is open access publishing Andrew? Give me a second. Find it. I actually would be quicker if I go. Sorry guys. Now you're all ready for me. Give me a second. Okay. And it is this one. All right. Let me ship my screen. Thank you. Let me know if you can see it. Yep. You can go down. Out the course. Okay. What is open access publishing? Please. What is. Okay. What is open access? But go down. Go down, go down, go down. Down, down, down, down, down, down. That one. Yeah. What is there? Down. Yeah. This one. That video. I was going to start that video. Yeah. Sorry. You've gone too far. Yeah. There's a delay between what you, what I'm seeing, what you're seeing. Okay. Here we go. Tell me when to kill it. Sounds. It's a scholarly publishing model that improves access to research. Traditional scholarly publishing models create price and permission barriers that prevent people from accessing research. In contrast, open access makes research available free of charge and free of most copyright and licensing restrictions. The U of G library spends millions of dollars a year to provide students and professors with access to research. But there are many people who still have to pay out of their own pocket. Because of the high cost of research, many practitioners, alumni, and independent scholars are unable to access research. Open access removes these price barriers by providing online access to research free of charge. Traditional. Andrew can stop there. Okay. The use of research. Okay. Okay. I'm going to. Okay. So that's the, um, let me go back to mine. Okay. So, um, that's the idea behind open access publishing. Uh, uh, freely accessible to people. So this, this explains a little bit and we've got a little activity. You're rather very, very simple one, which I won't even go through, but you will go through when you go through it yourself. So, um, and then we ask a question towards the end of the, uh, of the first section. Do you feel that your own research or that of your colleagues gets enough exposure? Now one thing about academics, they do like people to cite their work. And, um, this is the idea of open access publishing is that it's likely to increase citation rates of your research. We are actually going to be producing another learning pathway later in the year, which encourages academics to publish their research, not just for other academics, but for, uh, uh, people who are not specialists. And we're going to try and explain how to, to actually get your research out there to an even bigger audience. Okay. So, um, that's the first, uh, little section of it. And I'll look at the, I'll go through a couple more of these. Um, and then, um, I'd like to ask, I'll, um, ask for some questions. So we're going to wait. The next thing we ask is why should you consider open access? And we, what we show, um, people is, uh, try and show them the benefits of open access publishing, which are varied. There are various benefits of doing it. And once people can look at a diagram like this and then we're going to give them a little activity. There are benefits to the researcher. There are benefits to the public and there are benefits to both. So, um, for example, with this, uh, we've got one of these little drag and drop, like we said before, uh, and you can say, well, higher citation rates are mainly good for the, uh, for the researcher. The public can access your findings. Obviously that is a benefit. Probably to both, but it's certainly to the public, et cetera. So the idea of this little section is getting people to consider why it might be a good thing for themselves, a benefit to, uh, publish open access. And remember what I said earlier, we're not saying everybody must do all that publishing like this. It is parts of your research, parts of your colleagues' research that might benefit. It might even be part of the postgraduate students' research, um, rather than getting them to publish in a very, very highly rated journal that is very, very difficult to get into because they have a 95% rejection rate, it might be good for the students, postgraduate students, to publish in a good quality open access journal. And that's what I'd like to go on to now. I'm going to jump over the publishing options and I'm going to go straight on to, uh, choosing a reputable open access journal. Because this is the bit that some people get worried about. Um, uh, there are journals that are not reputable. So how do you choose a reputable journal? And, um, you, in the end, I'll give you an answer now. It's up to you to decide what is the most appropriate journal to publish your work in. But there's a process you can go through to do that. Um, there is a big range of journals and this is a very good little video. I won't try and put a hit now. I don't want it to not run. Um, very good little video from a website called Think, Check, Submit. Uh, and it's actually a website that, um, and there it is mentioned there, uh, Think, Check, Submit website. Um, this comes from the website and it says, okay, think about what journals check the journal and we give you advice in the learning pathway on how to check the journal and then you can submit. So, um, we, uh, for example, um, we would, uh, in fact, we would like you to think of this. Okay. Look at this journal, the International Journal of Education. And if you want to see about further about it, you can access it there. It's on the web. It's on the web. And then we would like you to check these boxes, check these questions, these criteria. Do you know of the journal? Have you read any articles? Can you find the latest papers in, in it? Can you identify and contact the publisher? What fees will they charge? Because we need to make it clear that most open access journals do charge some sort of fee. And they do this so that the journal can keep going. Uh, they do this so that the journal can continue to, to, to be published because publishing does cost money. Um, however, you can hopefully, uh, uh, you don't necessarily have to pay the fee yourself. Maybe the people who funded your research can assist you. Maybe your institution can assist you. Those are the sorts of things one would need to think about with open access publishing. And then there are some several other questions. And then eventually you evaluate and say, actually, is this, uh, the right journal for me? And, um, to do that, you need to go to, uh, the, these various, uh, uh, websites, the committee on publication ethics, director of open access journals, and possibly other, this one as well. So these people on the internet will help you to decide on what is a good journal or not. Um, here's the director of open access journals. Um, they, uh, they, and we've got a little activity for you to do, go to the website and then use this diagram to decide what aspects of DOAJ are important for you to, uh, so we've got there. You're going to see how it's organized. You're going to do a search for journals in your subject. And then, uh, you can look at the, you'll find that most of them have creative commons licenses. And that's the, that's the whole point. So this is a picture from the DOAJ website. So, um, that is the, probably the most important part of this particular learning pathway. And that's about choosing your journal. Now, this is actually, this is something that was sent to me. And many of you in an university might receive things like this. Uh, dear, and that was my name with an exclamation mark, right? Says dear Anthony Lelliot with an exclamation mark. We came across your article titled something, something that was published in something, something was impressive and caught our interest. These guys are trying to persuade me to publish in their journal. And this next section is all about what is sometimes called deceptive publishing. It's also known as predatory publishing. Um, and we explain what it's all about and how to identify such publishers. So, uh, that's what this section is all about. And, um, okay. So after reading those and watching the video, you can then complete this small activity, uh, to, uh, what, what, to see what, what deceptive publishers usually miss out when they, uh, when they talk about offering to publish your article. So, um, that's the section then on, uh, on deceptive publishing, we also have warning signs. Wait, so this is basically a little multiple choice. Um, and I'm, since you haven't been through the learning pathway yet, I'm not expecting you to answer these questions, but that's the way, uh, we've got these, uh, these three, these ways of looking out for deceptive publishers. We prefer to call them. Um, but they are commonly referred to as predatory publishers. Okay. So, um, ask you again, we keep asking you questions, um, all the way through. How do you respond when you receive unsolicited invitations to publish? And, uh, we give you, we give you some feedback. We always like you to, uh, um, to, to think through the question and at least in your mind answer it. As I said, it's actually better from your point of view. I mean, from your point of view, it'd be quite a good idea if you have a little journal or something you keep, you could just say, right, open access publishing. I'm just going to note, jot down my answers because in six months time, you might want to refer back to those. Maybe you want to, maybe you want to do a talk to your colleagues at your institution about open access publishing, then any ideas you've got could go into your journal. But as with all the learning pathways, we do give you feedback. Okay. So we give you feedback, uh, that you can, uh, think about as well. But we prefer you to think of your own answer before you go to the feedback. Okay. So, um, those are some of the, uh, uh, aspects of this, um, learning pathway. Um, and the final section is on, um, open movements, uh, and why is it not going there? It's not going there. Sorry, I haven't done the right thing. Um, the last section is on other open movements. We decided that you, you need to know about the various aspects of openness because, uh, you're going to hear more and more about them as time goes by. Uh, there's no doubt that, um, openness is a thing in the world at the moment. And whether you want to engage or not, you do at least need to know about it. So the idea here is, and of course we are, we're talking about these ones, open educational resources and open access journals in our two learning pathways. But we are going to provide more learning pathways later this year. Um, one of them is around, um, uh, um, the, uh, just about um, open learning generally, etc. But, um, I also want to mention that we, um, I did mention this yesterday, some of you are in yesterday's session. Um, we've got your email addresses and we are going to put you on our OAR Africa mailing list. We've been sending out, um, uh, communications just in this COVID time about various aspects of openness. And, uh, we're going to put you, put you on our mailing list. You can always unsubscribe if you don't want to be there. I'm mentioning this because our latest post that we sent out late last week was about, um, um, I'm just waiting for it about this one, this one, open courseware. Uh, and so if you're interested in thinking about open courseware as a subset of OER, that's an area that we, we have a little, um, a little communication about. So this last part is, um, uh, people yesterday and yesterday's session did ask what is the difference between open access publishing, which I'm talking about here, and open educational resources. Well, essentially they are closely related. So what Andrew's been talking about for the last couple of hours is basically OER finding them and adapting them. So what is open access? Well, open access is a related area. Um, but it's particularly, uh, it's particularly related to scholarly publications released under an open license. OER can a lot of them are teaching resources. Open access publishing is basically scholarly publication and there's a little section there that explains what it's all about. Okay, so, um, I'm going to stop sharing for a moment and if we need to, I'm going to go back to that, but, uh, are there any questions anyone would like to ask? Um, you're welcome to put them in the chat or if you want to, you can put your hand up or you could just unmute your microphone and ask a question. So that is, uh, that is my input really. Remember, I'm just introducing you to the learning pathway because it's a self-study learning pathway that you are going to go through yourself over the next week or so. What we need to point out that we haven't set the date yet, but in about two weeks we're going to ask everybody to come back to a zoom like this um, and we're just going to have a session where people give us feedback on these learning pathways because as well as you are learning from them we are treating this as a pilot. There are aspects that are we would like to improve on these learning pathways. We will then go back into them make the changes and then release them as a sort of final version. And Kim of athlete has said that they would like to take on our moodle, basically our moodle course on these learning pathways and they'll be available to everybody via moodle all athlete members but as I mentioned before they're also available on OER Africa website. So any questions? I don't see any questions coming up on the chat yet. Hey Donnie This is Aloysius Yes Aloysius from the United States Sorry where are you from? Here You're breaking up a little bit. Okay carry on I'm saying that I'm Aloysius from Kerry University Yes Yes What you're discussing Open Access is something of interest to me It's thing of interest but it also disturbs me a lot Okay Why? Yeah I do my research I do my study go through all those rest processes and publish my and then I do my work side head ETCT accessibility but now on the economic part of and the time part of you how do how do publish for free like in open access environment how do they economically benefit because as I'm going to publish my work my work side head I'll be excited of course when I see my works cited in because I I like now you know in Africa we are not that rich I would wish to publish and and now you're with this concept of access I don't know that you get to my I can hear something I'm afraid to say Aloysius that you're you're you're breaking up quite a lot and it's quite difficult to hear all you're saying from what I'm hearing and it might be you just want to put the substance of the actual comment in the chat as well because I think if I was struggling to hear you other people would also but you're you're saying concerns you because of the economic side of it the fact that you have to pay an article processing charge that's what it's officially called to to get into a journal okay but what are what and I think that is that correct is that what you're concerned about having to pay a charge to an open access journal to to publish is that it yeah this that perfect and also how do I benefit because you're breaking up again I'm afraid you're breaking up very badly again and we can't really hear so part of it how do you benefit well I'm I'm going to say please go through the learning pathway because I did show your I did show you a screen where it shows all the benefits of open access publishing and as I mentioned also you need to understand that the it certain parts of your research might benefit from from open access publishing but other parts of your research might not so what is the idea here is to say we're not trying to say everybody must do publish open access we're trying to say here is an option that might benefit you in various ways however I would expect that most academics would want to carry on in their normal publishing way they would do publishing in traditional journals but they might also do some experimentation with publishing in open access journals so regarding the payment yes there is a fee however you one of the benefits is that you keep copyright to your research when you publish in a journal like an Elsevier journal or Springer journal or Taylor and Francis journal you give copyright to the publisher you no longer own copyright with open access publishing you do keep it so that's one of the benefits there another benefit is probably increased citation rates so all I'm saying is consider this as an option within your publishing landscape okay we've got two questions we've got two questions in the chat the first one is saying thank you for your lecture the question is is it advisable for one to publish a journal that covers all range of disciplines I think it's called a multidisciplinary journal or is it best to go another route answer that one first I've got the chat so I'll have a look I would question multidisciplinary journal the main thing is that you want to publish in a high quality journal and the processes that we explain in the learning pathway show you how to find the best quality journal for your publishing I don't think I would actually say that some of the predatory publishers tend to be multidisciplinary not they're not all like that but I would question whether that's a good idea I would say generally one wants to publish in high quality journals because then you get basically high quality citations from your research that's what I would suggest hello Tony hello yes good morning how are you? I'm Professor Echezona from Nigeria precisely in first of Abuja thank you for your lecture I enjoyed it actually open access and OER yes there are a lot of difference between them when you now talk about you know we are academic librarians we want people to read us we want people to to when they are writing their quotas but actually we also want our university to be visible and we can only be visible when we when we look into the OER that's the only way we can be visible that's the university all our publication university publication into one place so my question is this I floated a journal I also publish it online but my problem is yes I want it to be open access but I want also to make money out of that journal so how do I married it to thank you that's an interesting question thank you very much I don't know because I don't actually run a journal I'm not sure if I can I can answer the first part of the question the you should look at the directory of open access journals have you looked at the directory of open access journals because they basically have a questionnaire that allows you to decide on how open you want the journal to be and those sorts of things so it would be very good to go to such and that's on the learning pathway I showed you the picture of it because then they can assess the journal and then they can decide obviously on its quality as for making money out of it I don't know that's going to be a more difficult thing because you would have to you would have to charge people to publish in it and that might put people off it depends on what the charge is so I don't think I'm qualified really to answer that part of the question I'm afraid my I don't know if anyone else would like to dip in there I want to contribute to this thank you with regards to making money out of it I think she can't do it very well in terms of going through the recross processing peer review process and then go through let your journal be indexed by by you see quite a lot of journals that charge they charge article processing fee if you like you can charge article processing fee add your whatever money that you want to add to it but make sure that you go through the recross peer review process anytime a manuscript is submitted to you so that can be done the next thing is with what we said that multidisciplinary journals most of them are predatory I agree but you can also get quite a lot of good credible let's say credible databases that are institutional journals so journals like let's say sorry departmental library like my they have good journals but they are multidisciplinary because we have different subject areas the same as I'm sure they have a journal that is multidisciplinary because all different subject areas are there so they encourage they are professors and whatever scholars to publish them so in as much as some of these multidisciplinary database journals are not good they are also good multidisciplinary and also you thank you thank you for your contribution thank you the place I'm going when you publish your book or your journal in open access already is open everybody can download it anybody can read it so in that case I don't think you can make money out of it please can you get me more on bikes well as I said I can't because it's not quite my area so I don't know if anyone else has any suggestions there because as academics that's not normally the purpose of our lives you know it is to it is to research and publish and teach etc etc if you want to make money I think it's going to be a it would be a there would have to be some other aspects of what Richard was saying was that you need to make sure it's a high quality one and you would then you would have to charge an article processing fee obviously you could start off at a low fee so that people a number of people can contribute and as your journal gained in respect etc maybe you could increase that fee so that it became but I don't think you're ever really going to make money out of it okay thank you very much can I say something yes sure you see knowledge is becoming more and more free you know the emphasis all over the world now is on open you know collaborations building knowledge from what others have done so the open access of it that aspect you know the expectation is that people will share and it doesn't have to be for a price and APCs does article processing charges I think that's the fair the fair way that a journal can use to make money then because why I'm saying this is that right now there are initiatives that are driving open data that when people claim that they run a research sure publish open access then let us have links to your research data so that we can be sure of the thing you did and so many countries are buying into it now if and it's done so that whatever you did can be replicated if now people are sharing not just their research findings but also their research data you know putting a high price tag or putting a price tag on journals to make money might almost be impossible because the emphasis is on open nets because everybody is now realizing that for the world to move forward knowledge must be available must be accessible without price tags that can stop people from gaining access to such knowledge so I just think that thinking along the line of making money from open access journals might not be the thing now right okay thank you very much just quickly one person wants to expand on think check and submit look we really don't have time to do that now there's a very good video in the learning pathway on think check and submit and it comes from their website and that will the idea basically behind it is to think of what you want to do regarding your journals what sort of journals you want to publish in then you need to go on and check the various journals available and then you will get all the information you can about them and then finally submit to the journals so that's I'm not going to be able to go into the detail of it now but that's essentially what it means okay so the other the other question in the chat is does it mean those journals that charge fees for publishing do a better work on article publication than the free ones why are they free well in a way nothing is free the the as again we explain this in the learning pathway so my apologies if I'm brief here but traditional publishing relies on two things advertising traditional journal publishing relies on advertising and relies on libraries subscribing to the journals and what happens these days is that libraries have to pay quite a lot of money to subscribe to the big journals they get their money from those subscriptions whereas open access journals you don't need to you don't need to pay to access the individual articles in them but they they will need some form of income to keep the journal going unless it's funded from some sort of big grant or something and that income has to come from something like an article processing charge so basically for journals to work they I then need people to work for free which to be honest some of us do because we actually review the review in the articles is normally done free but they or they need to charge a fee of some sort so there's always there's always funding issues somewhere for journals to continue to continue going but if you go through the learning pathway we do expand a little bit about traditional publishing versus open access publishing and hybrid journals as well hybrid publishing okay anything else we're coming towards the end of our day Ken I don't know if you would like to I'm happy to answer more questions but I think I've got there's nothing else in the chat I don't think we have any more questions the important thing is that you've done the introduction we're now digging into the pathway and then learn, see what's up there and then since we have another meeting like this after two weeks after we've gone through the pathways then we can ask further questions like I said before this is an opportunity for us to challenge our minds, our skills the things that we thought that we know or that we knew to know that see the world is changing and like Andrew said librarians cannot continue to be custodians of information, we are now getting into a place where we need to start creating alongside with IT professionals alongside with lecturers so we need to be up in our game so that we cannot be found wanting so any questions that we have if what you see in the learning pathway it doesn't help you to answer it then get ready to ask us in two weeks time then also know that because this is a pilot training whatever you ask us we'll now see ways of adding it to the content to make it more vibrant and robust thank you very much and you're welcome also to email us Andrew said email him if you have struggled with Moodle I will be sending everybody an email as well so particularly people who are doing this learning pathway and you're very welcome to send me a question in an email or you could put it on Slack so any of those options are available to you yeah because that Slack space is good for asking questions so that other people can also help to answer yes that's true okay I think we are through Andrew I don't know if you've got anything else you finally want to mention if you thought of anything while you are away I'm envious we had a nice discussion after yours I thought but I didn't answer I didn't ask any questions on the way I just rushed through it all but anyway all will be revealed when people go through the learning pathways and as Kim has mentioned in about two weeks time you can grill us again so that would be great and I'm going to open the microphones now Kim if people want to talk to each other people are from different institutions I mean for five minutes I think it's fine to do that and then we'll end just after two but I'd like to thank you very much and Kim you and I'll be in touch in relation to Tuesday Tuesday what's happening on Tuesday again alright on 28 yes we'll just need to be in touch about who might be coming in for Botswana and then pop up of people that couldn't make it especially for the University of Abuja because we didn't see on 28 the ones who didn't attend yesterday and they will now not okay thank you everybody so say hello to the others then you can go because we are done yeah, unmutable are we done are we done are we done thank you hello hello are we supposed to work on 28 I can't hear you it's a big echo are we supposed to work on 28 no yeah somebody's asking a question the question is are these people in this session expected to be in the one on the 28th and the answer is no no no because that one is for people mainly from Botswana that couldn't join us today and then from the University of Abuja that couldn't join us today too we've done ours so Richard we've had enough of you so go and do your your learning thank you another question is excuse me is it exactly from today we'll set the date we need to discuss with Nkem to say the date we'll tell everybody on Slack and by email Prof you wanted to ask a question Prof there will be another one when is it let me know Nkem you have to be putting them it's for their own good but it's also for the University so we are having another opening session on 28 of this month exactly so we'll send you the link so that you can make sure that all your people are here because when you don't join us or for this it might be hard for you getting into the Moodoo platform you might have issues that's number one then the second one is that you might get lost inside there and once you don't do it you will get your certificate so that's why we want people to be here so that we can break them in gently and then they go and learn okay alright thank you alright any other questions you look at here that one is those half alright bye everyone thank you for coming thank you that's good thank you thanks very much thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thanks very much thank you thank you and do find us on Slack please if you're not on Slack already you let us know so that we can add you there and please feel free to ask questions