 Okay, next speaker is is Nelson Eccani. He's from Stockholm Environment Institute. He's been working in Rwanda and he will be addressing the topic community-based sanitation programs and he's been working in a district called Brera. I believe he's also doing his PhD and using some of the the data from from these projects. So there's if you like an extreme level of rigor in in his treatment of this subject. Please. Thank you, Anu. Thank you for coming. I will share with you some findings we've had from work we've been doing in the Nording Rwanda. This is just to present to you the structures that are already in place before CACs institutionalized in Rwanda and these are structures that I think will be very useful as we roll out CACs. So there are different entry points in sanitation like Juliet mentioned, you know sanitation is cross-cutting in many parts in Bokina Faso in Niger even in Rwanda now we have the agricultural sector as an entry point. So you're having this reuse aspect as a way of triggering people to get toilets so they can actually get you know incentives for if you're using improved toilets. So where are we? Brera district in Rwanda is the most rural district densely populated and of course administratively Rwanda has district sectors and then cells and then have villages at the end. So we are precisely at the Rugerama sector in that district. Where agriculture is a predominant activity 95 percent and major crop produced there is potato. We have the volcanic region as well. It's very Healy and rocky, difficult to dig toilets and there we have predominantly traditional pit latrines. As of 2006 the sanitation coverage in that district was about 37 percent as based on wash and survey that was done there. So those are the kind of toilets that you have there. So there you go. That's Brera district and we are there close to the Brera lake and you see this is what is predominant and then you have some of these public UD toilets, urine diversion toilets, that's how we refer to them and then you have some of improved structures that are also coming up. So yeah, after saying that agriculture is a driver, Rwanda has made as of 2011 a guideline as you see there made by the Ministry of Infrastructure that's outlining the different types of structures that are usable in Rwanda and one of them is urine, urine diversion, dry toilets, including reuse and that's also something that facilitates people in this region who are mainly considered as vulnerable to be able to use toilets that are functional and you can see there you can dig so deep so it's very rocky but it's a challenge. So in 2006 as part of the wash program UNICEF intervened in this area and rolled out fast that is participatory hygiene and sanitation transformation training and we can consider this as one of those triggering factors that made you know villages in some of these communities to you know create cooperatives to say that there are two cooperatives that I will be talking about today. The Dusukura Fast Cooperative which helps the poor households access human manual that is mainly an eco-sand as we call it ecological sanitation cooperative collects urine and physies and sanitizes the products and of course build eco-sand toilets and their objectives is to maintain sanitation and hygiene facilities in the village promote the use of sanitized human escalator in agriculture and there's also this Duharani Isuku, Isuku is hygiene cooperative which was also created which is responsible for maintenance of public facilities but I will be focusing mainly on Dusukura Fast which is an ecological sanitation cooperative so in 2006 and following that period UNICEF has been rolling out fast training amongst community members of TOT's training of trainer courses who come out and then roll out this training to the rest of the communities and there's also fast committees within these communities and of course it's the district wash team to support these committees. At schools we have what they call HAMS so it's what they use in schools and there's also committees in schools that are in charge of this and the UNICEF also facilitated the communities by donating some material donated UD slabs, urine diversion toilet slabs, urine pipes and jerry cans to some households and what we'll see later on is that most of the households that got it did not build the toilets as we'll see later so this cooperative since 2007-2008 has been led by two dynamic people mainly Everest there and Jacqueline who were part of the TOT that was rolled out they are considered champions and have been used as good examples in the community and mainly female members in this cooperative and there's a membership fee so you see the type of toilets they have we have double alternating volts there you see one volt here and there's another one when this one is full then they transfer to this one and then you have single volts just like this and then you have the public urine diversion dry toilets that have several volts and there are also baskets that they use sometimes because it's cheaper to get these baskets for collection and transportation which are sold locally and they've also organized themselves in a way that they can actually sell and buy these these products so you see there that they sell urine in jerry cans and they sell volts of fika compost and the crops that they produce in this in this community potato of course there's maize and there's cabbage so to understand exactly what agricultural inputs are used in this community we we did a as part of a survey household sanitation survey we found that a potato of course is the main crop and there's quite a lot of animal and chemical manure being used there human humanist crater as you see there mm-hmm humanist crater is is being used as well but quite minimal of maize you see also that it's animal animal only predominant predominant it's predominant and you have a lot of humanist crater also being used so it shows us that there is different combination of of fertilizers that are being used in the community by different farmers who carbate you see that there is more of human excreta used as fertilizer and there's also animal manure which is predominant as well as beings animal manure is predominant there and there is also a mixture of chemical and animal manure being used and a little bit of human manure we as part of this survey also we did collect information about income income and expenditure on toilets and we found that in those households with ecosystem the income is significantly higher total expenditure is significantly higher among burrera crop members cooperative members than among burrera pit latrine members as you can see there this blue we also did a similar survey in cabal in Uganda where we found that those having you urine diversion dry toilets also had higher expenditure on toilets and higher income the income is significantly higher among cabal ecosystem households than among cabal pit latrine households and a total capital expenditure is significantly higher among cabal so you see from this data that we we have a next higher expenditure in households having urine diversion toilets and the possibility of reuse than those with pit latrines so there's that shows that they have been able to use the benefits they derive from this activity to improve their standards we also looked at the governance at the household level looking at how gender division of labor is organized we find that in burrera in rwanda you see that men in the cooperative households are more often involved in cleaning and also women in ecosystem households are more take part in construction so you see that those those activities that you know perceived as male dominated often women are also doing that construction for example and cleaning which is a female thing male are also doing it in the cooperative household which is part of a you know the outcome of the training that took place in the community at the same thing in cabal we also find that men in the cabal ecosystem households participate in toilet cleaning as well and that is an interesting thing as you can see there is cleaning you see the more male year than in pit latrine households so that just data to show you that we've been looking at different trends in this community that is comparing of course ecosystem households with pit latrine households and we find there are significant differences in different activities and costs so after mentioning some of these champions in the community who have been behind some of these changes that have been talked a lot about in the borough district we find that there are three people Jacqueline Everest and Beatrice who have been leading this cooperative and who have actually seen a lot of changes in living standards Jacqueline here has been able to construct a home she didn't have a house before this is a compound most of this is a u d toilet behind there and she has actually all kinds of crops maize beings and all are not there and she is one of the success stories that is documented Everest is also one of them and then there is Beatrice who is also a success story so these are cases three cases out of many that I want to show you as testimonies of this another interesting recognition was the invitation that they got to exhibit their products at the Africa sand conference in 2011 so they came along with crops that are fertilized with human excreta and was this was exhibited all through Africa sand in Kigali so these cooperative phases challenges as I said they were trained in fast and other methods but with with productive sanitation it's not enough just to to learn about hygiene it's a whole system and possibly they had given them the tools but they didn't give them enough so there was inadequate support today coastal households in an inadequate understanding of the concept as a whole is a system and you can see the structure that some of the households got this is supposed to be urine diversion toilet without the roof and this is another one and you can see here that there is a urine correction that is poorly connected so you see from some of the households that they didn't understand very well what what they were doing some complaint of inefficient insufficient gerry cans insufficient wood ash to to add in toilets so you have odor that comes and some complain also blocked urine pipes and our partners in Kigali that is school of medicine and health sciences the former Kigali Institute have been doing studies in this community and they find that there is after testing some of the samples from this toilet they find there's a lot of pathogens in there so which means that this treatment is not sufficient as you see in 2006 2007 that's when the intervention in the wash intervention took place in the community and you see that there was a decrease there and then there's a slight increase here as well in 2009 now we don't know if this increase is as a result of maybe poor usage of the ecosystem products but it shows there that there is a slight increase and that confirms also with the kind of toilets we saw and the kind of treatment that they have because people start using this thing indiscriminately when they start seeing the products you know the of in their farms because the crops actually do well cabbages are growing bigger the maize are growing taller and so on and so people scoop fika matter that is not fully sanitized and using the farms and that's the common practice in the community and that's what we have to actually support them with so in terms of recommendation we think the cooperative needs sustained support in terms of information and tools which I think are not sufficient after being in the community since 2011 they are dynamic as we see there's change there's a recognition even within Rwanda and it's I think it's the kind of dynamism that they show I think the CACs would strive in the community of that kind we should encourage communities of this kind to of course create cooperatives with common vision self-help groups and so on and of course the champions in the community we have to identify them because Jacqueline for example ever is here these are people who could mobilize the whole community and they are very key in making things happen in these communities so that's the short presentation I had to share with you I would welcome some questions okay thank you we have time for one or two questions please you have to come up here yep just say who you are good presentation thank you I'm your short what follow I'm from South Africa I'm actually completing my masters in sustainable development at Uppsala University but I'm also a strategy consultant for business development in sub-Saharan Africa just a question firstly in terms of the yields on the produce using traditional methods of fertilization with with human excreta that's the first question the second question is you mentioned the pathogens which have been found in in some of the produce or in the soil is there a carryover from those pathogens into the agricultural produce if yes what what are the impacts of that thank you yeah thank you for that question that there is a the possibility that people get consume pathogens if crops are not properly cooked or washed and in the community of this kind where water is a limiting factor and the hygiene habits are not the best you find that people of course will will be easily contaminated so but there is what we call the multiple barrier approach where even if you grow crops you know with thicker matter you can actually treat them somehow you wash them and you cook them and so on but you cannot you know assure that this this kind of you know strategies are taking place in the community of this kind so there is a risk and not that the crop the the pathogens will go into the crops like the perception is in some of the communities that you're consuming thicker matter but the fact that you fertilize them and then you have the some of the pathogens still on you know for example vegetables that are consumed raw so aspects of washing aspects of cooking are very key in making sure that you reduce the risk of contamination and about the yields yeah the yields the yields are clear you know people in the this community testify they show you crops they show you farms they've done demonstration farms where you you find crops that are fertilized you saw there was a there was a wide variety of of fertilizers used as you saw there but they have done different demonstrations to show that you minus critter actually is is producing better than the others and you could see on cabbage big and fresh okay one question come on my name is my name is Gritje Zeeman waging University the Netherlands actually my question is related to the former questions on pathogens twofold it's known from practice and literature especially here in sweden that when you store urine that the pathogens are going back to zero is that promoted that urine is first stored before applied and secondly do you also advise on the type of excreta so urine or or visas for certain products because I can imagine that when you use tomatoes which grow high it's better to use the the visas because they will not get into contact with the with the products so I think you can improve there quite a lot yep yep yeah there are guidelines the WHO guidelines that you know stipulate things like that there's also a urine guideline that SCI has done which you know outlines the procedure of how to apply urine and on what crops and what quantity but there is in the community of this kind you need to be there which actually that's not the case there they have a little support from the watch team so they're most of the things they do on their own and they need some coordination they've when they once they start seeing that this thing is it's very productive they will do what they can to to actually improve their yield so it's actually important for for you know practitioners to be on the ground with with the community members you know to monitor their behavior their behavior for a while because it started nicely and then it it changed and as a year as of last week I was with one of the people from KHI former KHI and he said the government authorities actually turning down the whole thing so it means that they may be seeing some of the negative part of it and they want to shut it down there's a bit of a quite a bit of ignorance actually about this thing about pathogens if you if you have a community sharing feces that are either composted or not composted then you get cross transfer pathogens which can be foreign which can cause some form of disease within a family plot though there is already cross contamination if you're like a lone farmer you don't you can't get sick on your own feces so there's a lot of unknowns about these sorts of things but the WHO has done a great service 2006 to say that that urine storage should be for a community up to six months depending on the temperature so in fact I think now it's in practice going down to two months urine is not the source of pathogens of course it's rather sterile and that's where most of the nutrients are so if it's not cross contaminated of course so thank you Nelson for that