 What's up, everyone? Welcome to simulation. I'm your host Alice today. We are featuring Dolo, is that correct? Yeah D. Lulo, but close Nice bro D. Lulo. Yeah, so you got it. Is that Italian? Yeah, it is You know, you got it D. Lulo Lulo Angelo, so good to meet you bro. Nice to meet you. I'm excited for this episode. Simply Always Awake.com is a website. So simple. Three words. It's like this Simultaneity of there always being awake and yet also the appearance of falling asleep and then waking up. Do you feel similarly? Yeah, well when I Use the phrase or the the terminology simply always awake. It's it's pointing to something that is actually in all of our experience all the time, but our minds tend to sort of Simulate, I guess to use your terminology of structured reality This sort of overlays this part of ourselves that we all know intuitively that is truly always awake always at peace always at rest excuse me and The pointing really is that there's a possibility to To sort of wake up to that or wake up from the dream that there is separation in our environment and our experience And Very real shifts can and do happen Experiential shifts in the way we perceive reality perceive ourselves perceive the world And perceive boundaries. And so that's really what the website of the book are are addressing So cool So then there's the website and then there's also the book which is linked in the bible also awake is your turn a guide to awakening and That definitely also covers what you just shared a moment ago, which is it's Basically a game of feeling separation or not And then what what is your how? for when people Say i'm feeling separation like what do you point them to? Well before the how there has to be the what and what I mean by that is it's very easy to talk about subjects like this or this subject or spirituality or Transformation and identity and so forth and for it to remain completely conceptual Which is fine but the first barrier the first boundary that One has to cross before they really intuit what this is about is To see through that illusion That what we take ourself to be in a mental way the mental constructs the beliefs the sense of my past my life story all of that While it has its place is not deeply true, but most importantly, it's not deeply satisfying So often the first pointer that something Could potentially shift is suffering actually is a feeling of dissatisfaction Unsatisfactoryness something just uncomfortable in life. So Excuse me. This is just allergies so well some people do sort of Start to investigate this this path through just general curiosity and so forth many people if not most The first real step to authenticity is to start to recognize that we do have a sort of Suffering that goes on underneath our layers of identity to keep us in this place of feeling safe and feeling oriented and so forth And without that initial recognition that sense that there's something more something beyond That is non conceptual Then the how doesn't really get you very far. It's it's it's really a matter of recognition first sort of thing so That's why I orient the book the way I do the whole first chapter is kind of pointing to this I'm trying to give the reader a sense of what I'm talking about and It will either be Typically the reader either picks up a sense of oh, I know exactly what this is I know exactly what this book is pointing to and it's been there my whole life and I wanted to address it Or it'll be something like No, like this is not interesting to me Or even kind of scary like I don't want to open that door sort of thing. So I really tried in the first chapter to Use certain kind of language nuanced communication to Help anyone reading get a sense of what it is We're actually pointing to and if you get that sense or once you get that sense then we can start talking about the house Sweet so then what would you say you're pointing to and then we can go to the house Um, you remember you told me to tell you if you freeze your visual has frozen Okay, is it let me know if it comes back Sure Is it still close? Yeah At least on my end it is I see my face moving but yours is just frozen. That's weird on my end It's showing up in high-res and we felt like this might this might happen But good now. Okay. All right, let me know let me know if that happens again, but yeah, keep going Okay Yeah, you're you're a little you're slightly choppy, but now you're moving and I can see your face and everything So it's not frozen. Okay. Um Sorry, what was the last question? Let's do the what the pointing is to right first and then we'll do the house. Yeah Yeah, well, um again the the trick with this so the tricky part with this is when we talk about What I'm pointing to with language the language definitely has Has limitations um, I've learned to speak About this that I point to in clever ways using language or using pointings and so forth, but ultimately Language will kind of get you to to a certain a certain edge and you kind of have to step over that edge um So I can point to it in various ways But the you have to sort of take that intuition and move beyond where your mind gets you because this is beyond concepts Because the the sort of simulation so to speak is made out of concepts. It's made out of the mental sense of past present Well, really even present but past and future like a timeline and it's made out of separation the sense of being A self here in a body and the world being out there. So those sense the sense of separation in space and time Is the overlay and it's cognitive in nature. So it has um, um A certain A certain fixed structure that feels enclosed that feels Again unsatisfactory and so The the key to this that i'm pointing to is to feel to feel your way just beyond that to to recognize Oh, there actually is something here in my experience right now that is not bound by my mental um overlay of self and other subject and object of Distance of there being separate objects in my environment that i'm apart from And i have to navigate all those objects and people and situations to try to make my life better And it's kind of like a struggle all the time that all of that is created by the movement of mind by cognitive processes And the the ability to sense just beyond that is kind of the first step The first step is to say, okay. Yes, I can see how all of the ways my mind puts together Time and space etc. I don't actually find in this immediate environment for instance Very specifically past and future you can imagine the past all day long But it doesn't suddenly cause the past to appear in your present, right? So we can imagine past events past Conversations etc. We never actually changed the fact that whatever's here right now is what's here We didn't bring the past into the present Yeah, so it's a mental construct clearly and yet we spend a lot of our time Contemplating that Similarly the future we imagine the future we imagine a future conversation Even mundane things right what's going to happen five minutes from now or in the next room I walk into we're kind of living in that world of the future Well, what happens when we realize? Oh, that's actually not happening either. We're suddenly left in a sort of Unfiltered present. Yeah, I mean some some people refer to it just as presence or as the now and so forth, but You can even sort of wake up from the sense of there being a now In reference to a past in the future because that's still looking through a mental construct When you see there's no past and future. There's really also no now. There's only what is and it's just right here Um, and so what it is I'm pointing to what it is. I'm uh describing You could say is reality unfiltered by mind Which actually turns out looks very different and it feels very different Then the way we put things together with our minds Not even purposely it's it's a habituated experience and we all share it collectively. It's like the matrix So when you start to experience reality unfiltered it actually feels quite different It feels much less structured much less solid much less heavy It's it has a sort of vastness to it. It's also quite paradoxical Because near and far stop making sense in direct experience Past future present don't really make a lot of sense Um There's a there's a distinct sense of intimacy of kind of like childlike innocence That you almost remember from childhood But it's not a memory. It's it's again its instinct that is suddenly sort of rediscovered and what's so wild is that innocence and that that intimacy of experience Is uncaused it's not like you find an object and go where there's the there's the intimacy like another person or a relationship It's not like that. It's already here. And so it's paradoxical There's there's a sort of emptiness to it in a sense. There's a when the simulation is not Believed then what's behind the simulation Is is almost like a lot of space and yet there's there's a clear intimacy to it and we're also far more Um Attuned to the senses sound and sensation, but they they aren't momentary events. They're they're deeply immersive Experiences and these experiences don't even have a subject object meaning a person experiencing the sound It's just sound hearing and it's The loudest thing in the room. It's it's quite Again intimate is the word I use a lot. So that's what I'm really pointing to is a a way to live Without experiencing the filters of mind which are pervasive actually our experience for most people cool, bro, so is The filter is that you describe would you say that those are added on like onion layers to humans when they're born and that There is the possibility of the like baby never putting on those filters Uh, I would say they are oh first of all you froze again Um, so I should mention that uh, they are yeah, they are somewhat like layers although Um, it's not usually until the layers have come off that it becomes obvious How those layers were constructed in a sense. It's not like you as you're growing up you go okay, I'm going to put on the layer of self at 18 months old you start to actually perceive the most fundamental sense of self You don't decide okay. I'm going to put that on right because who would be deciding that the most fundamental layer of self is It's just basic self-awareness like reflection in a mirror. You know, oh, that's me um and then a sense of uh Being able to perceive that other people have internal experiences of a self which is called theory of mind That happens between three and four years old So it's not like we choose to put the we don't have the complex enough mind At that point cognitively to actually know we're doing it, but physiologically it's already happening So yeah, they are like onion layers in a sense and they do sort of come off like layers But you're not aware as you're as you're adding them on growing up and developing a self and so forth You're also not really aware even as they're coming off. You're you're aware something's happening for sure but you you wouldn't be this articulate about it until Deeper realization and and later on it starts to become clear. Oh, I see because What what you actually wake up to Is very hard to describe. It's it's it's there's a lot of subtlety to it. It's very obvious It's more obvious actually than the in the More I guess more intuitively obvious than the the layers of mind and the cognitive distortions that I would call um The the causes of this feeling of being in a separate a world of separate Objects and so forth the environment of separation So the what you wake up to is actually more subtle than that in a sense, but it's also more obvious It's more real. It's more real than real. So um because it's subtle because of its subtlety it's actually quite hard to Talk about with language because language doesn't really fit over this as I described earlier So, yeah, it's it's really not until later on after a lot of these layers have come off that you start to really Get what happened and how how these layers came off, but you don't really care It's not like you want to understand it. In fact, you feel Free of the sense of having to understand things all the time, right? Because if we want to understand things often We we want to understand so that we can make ourself feel better because our identity is tied to the concepts um After realization Understanding is is fine. It's fun, but it's it's like our identity is not on the line anymore We don't feel like we have to understand to defend ourselves or to feel better or anything like that because the The the joy of just being alive is uncaused. It's not something we have to learn about or understand and so forth. So, um So it is like layers of onion of an onion, but it's not always obvious as it's occurring so Very similarly to panjali back 2000 plus years ago So you have yoga or union or awakeness being just the cessation of the fluctuations of mind So it sounds like you're describing fluctuations of mind being like the matrix being like Feeling a sense of self and then connecting every sensation experience to that localized Is that right? Yeah, I would say that's a good way of saying it and calming the the turmoil of consciousness of the mind um It's part of it But what it really comes down to is not just quieting the mind or calming or stopping the mind Because you do that every night actually in deep sleep the mind gets extremely quiet There's there's no content, but you don't just wake up enlightened, right? Like everybody doesn't wake up from deep sleep enlightened. So just stopping the mind or turning off the mind or turning calming down the The fluctuations in consciousness in and of itself Um, doesn't necessarily wake you up, but it can be helpful. So through meditation through some odd he practices Calming consciousness while you're awake knowingly calming consciousness and remaining conscious can be extremely helpful um But uh, I would also add that I would I I in my experience even more potent torches sorts of um Practices are like inquiry inquiry practice Interacting with somebody who's gone through this That that can be very helpful just the transmission of it But yeah, it is very much like that and then the second part of what you said You're blurry now. Sorry. I don't know if you want to keep giving me keep giving you these reports, but yeah I think I think you you can keep giving me some you you've also gently froze a couple Times a little bit, but um, maybe both of our internets are Not uh, too spectacular right now. We could have also We could also switch to zoom and just record and then upload as another possibility Um, I do like having uh going live though. Um, was this last bit okay in terms of uh audio and video Uh, I I think so. I mean I can't tell what I look and sound like but um I'm just like in terms of on my end on your end. You're still good Okay Yeah, I can hear you. I can always hear you. It's just your mostly your image. It changes Oh, okay. Cool. Yeah, I just wanted to let you know Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, we can keep letting each other know as as needed throughout like when that does happen okay But sounds good I think it is feeling good to to stream but it's good to know moving forward that when internet connection is sometimes fluctuating to Just record to zoom and then upload it can be better So this last part was fine though for me. You can always hear me and then the video was okay. Was that the case on? Okay, cool. Cool. Um, they're saying the audio is fine over here too. So Oh in the chat. Yeah, okay. Cool. That's good. Um, that's good. Okay, cool Yeah, so in the second the second part of what you asked, um I thought was really good and you you had asked, um Or mentioned about he actually you might have to remind me what it was now Well, yeah, the first part was about quieting the mind we were talking about So we were talking about how that is great to basically be able to do some inquiry during daytime Just throughout the day is to always be acquiring And to just always be dissolving in any sense of self that's rising To not relate sensation and experience to a sense of self. That's fantastic Um, and then to be with somebody that emanates this awakeness Also is another great for transmission and whatnot. Um, so sangha basically in the triple gentleman Goon business surrounding yourself with other awake community Um, and then I was interested in the how also But it might not be the exact, uh, right time for it, but it feels like it could be Um, but I but I also really appreciated just the depth of how you were explaining it through all these different like facets to the diamond of of awakeness. Um, I think that's really crucial and Yeah, I liked how we were talking earlier about the um even onion layers building up and how And then and then dissolving and how you're not really aware of that process until you're like 30 or whatever And you're waking up and you can actually you're actually quite realized and you're quite convicted and you can actually explain it Then you kind of realize that that was the process happening um But I would also like to talk more about like the direct perception of what you're referencing with awakeness and what um Like if you feel that this is just it talking to itself or reality talking to itself It's not like a distorted um sense of self Of atlas talking to angelo it could be the appearance of that But really it's like talking to itself or the one talking to itself reality talking to itself So is it somewhat like that for what you would explain is like the awakeness? Yeah, I would I would say it is Really even simpler than that. It's just reality appearing. So there's not a sense of atlas and angelo Uh at at the root of experience There's really just form and movement shape Sounds sensations, but even those aren't distinct. They're they're all it's it's it's like synesthesia. They're They they are sort of gateways or entry points, but beyond that it's really unconditioned there's it's the experience of of the unconditioned or sort of indeterminacy And and the funny thing about indeterminacy is like the mind does not it's not interested in that because it it can't get a Foothold anywhere. It's kind of like the cope the first call on in zen buddhism Rensai Zen at least is move typically what is move you can't even start to answer that question cognitively But there is very much an answer, right? Um, what is move? There's an answer to that and it tends to be the first awakening um So it's similar to that in that there's no way I can actually talk about what this is exactly In one sense because it's too close. It's too simple too obvious too close to Um, but also the moment you say anything about it. It's already different Reality is constantly in flux. It's just there's it but again very paradoxically The sum total of all fluctuations is nothing at all. So it's also not moving So it's moving and unmoving at the same time. It's real and unreal at the same time This is very direct pointing and some teachers sort of point this way constantly. It's it's like a Constant pointing from the absolute which is okay, but it can have some downsides to it. Um, it could blow some people out It can be just too too direct and it can also become um It can also become conceptual actually like you can learn that instead of actually realize it So I try I try not to fixate too much in the relative or the absolute. I try to work with a certain individual In a moment to moment experience of what they're experiencing as they're waking up I try to sort of just feel into that and work from where they are Nice So the relative aspect is really what matters with this because if i'm honest, I don't really have a philosophical interest in it There's not because philosophically there's nothing to solve It's like if you if you live in the ocean, do you want to read a book about how to find the ocean? You don't it doesn't matter right? It's not it doesn't make any sense at all. Uh, so But when someone wants to wake up, uh, they have my attention when I feel Energetically or when I'm interacting with somebody who is clearly suffering And not only are they suffering but they they sense the root of the suffering is this dream of separation and they really want to wake up um Move they're moved to wake up. Even if they don't know what that means and often they don't which is fine That's that's when this engagement starts. That's when the You can say the ball gets rolling. So it's very situational. It's very based on conditions So I don't walk around talking about the subject like on a day-to-day basis to people Except in this context, which is now day-to-day for me But like when I'm at work or with casual friends, there's no reason to bring it up. Um So, yeah, everything is conditions based Uh, there's in buddhism. There's the the uh, phraseology Transient nature that at some point you realize transient nature is the nature of Of this it's unconditioned. So anything that you try to attach to that's transient Which is literally everything you can describe talk about touch pick up Anything that feels like an object separate distinct in time. It's all transient So anytime you attach to that that's that's what causes suffering ultimately to be completely free of any attachment to That which is transient, which is again anything you can pick up touch talk about uh describe To be free of that is is real freedom. It's it's it's deeply peaceful and the beauty of it. It's it's flexible It's it's peaceful in in Generally any situation Regardless of conditions So so that's kind of how it tends to flow. It's it's uh, in a certain sense, it's kind of a strange way to live. Um, but Again in five minutes, I'll have a different impression and in 10 minutes There'll be another impression because what reality constantly changes It's kind of like a a set of dice that keeps throwing itself just recombining Into different types of realities different types of expressions But when you don't stand apart from it and try to make a mental model of it constantly Then you can actually fully be swallowed up by it in the sense are fully immersed into it And then it surprisingly it's very enjoyable. It's very enjoyable to not know to not Need to hold on to anything specific To to just really enjoy the ride of being alive I love this I'm gonna Say goodbye to friends on facebook love you guys We're only going to be streaming the youtube So just go to youtube.com for a slash simulation series. You can keep watching there Okay, so now it should be even better. Now that we're only going to one platform um Well sweet Yes, so much good stuff there. Um, okay, so I love the uh, the totally unconditioned view The totally unconditioned nature so Here you want to hear something really bizarre about this? Yeah, it's not even a view that in fact that almost the most fundamental aspect of the sense of separate self is actually What some something you might call an inherent view the the tendency to form a view at all It's so interesting and it can be a Everyone's difference, but for some people it can be very sticky this part can be very sticky for them It can be really challenging to let go of whereas The word to nature right after I said it. Oh, yeah It's not a criticism at all, but I just wanted to point that out that like It is interesting that right at the almost event horizon where it beyond that is really the unconditioned The the most fundamental thing it's it's a very it's not even an opinion. It's not an opinion type view. It's it's a Energetic Yeah, it's an energetic frame of reference that the mind is still trying to get to get its first foothold to build the story to build out the narrative and the sense of separation and Yeah, I like all of it horizon that's also like That's a really important part to the To the non being or the non existence or the the emptiness or the nirvana on the other side of the The initial formation of any type of view or any type of perception or any type of idea or concept or Any like or dislike craving attachment? Whatever just from right? Yeah from right there into the beingness into the existences Is then all of the different? awesome, sorry stuff and so Cute like to be able to like feel that because it is really like the event horizon more than anything I'd love that you said that Yeah, well said also as you were mentioning all of that I thought to say this this may be helpful for anyone listening but The unconditioned that we're talking about it's it's not a thing. It's it's all of this but um It you're right that has no has no preference. It has no specific frame of reference or Referencing isn't something it's concerned with It's and there's certainly no separation boundaries and anything like that and that's that's literally right here, right? For everyone actually so Yeah, but the thing I want to add to that is our mind will get a hold of that Sometimes hearing that and it'll think I'm gonna walk around Well, let me say it this way. It will it will think that let's say a liberated being a liberated person Would have no preference And it it can you can you can mistakenly interpret that if you look at somebody and say well There, you know, I don't know dolly llama or adi shanti or I don't there are people out there who are liberated You could look at them and say well sure they but they prefer food eating food to eating poison, right? Over or something like that like the body mind doesn't lose intelligence in that way The key though the key is I at the level of identity, but there's not identity tied into Preferences there's not identity tied into Relationality needing to relate all the time to experiences and objects around you and and navigating and negotiating that constantly Requires a ton of energy when that that can actually completely stop And it stops ultimately it really stops when identity stops when the sense of identity as a construct itself subsides When that happens everything changes, but You don't lose the ability even to look to look at your own body and experience and go well, yeah I mean I I prefer eating. I don't know pizza to horse radish or something like that you can still reflect and see That the tendencies can be there on a physical level on a physiologic level in the relative sense Or you could say the conventional sense But there really is no identity behind any of it and that makes all the difference because it's very heavy Like the sense of identity is far heavier than we really Realize typically until it subsides and then things get very light Yeah, it's so good For sure identity is so at the core of it. So well, sorry Yeah, and either this is All the one with itself self capital s with itself however you want to share that Or it's no self in the sense that there isn't a distinct separate sense of self Among us, but there is only energy dancing appearing playing with itself blah blah And so it's just it's really sweet and it's really important Like you said, it's the most important thing about everything with a weakness But from what I've understood Is that it has to be like a felt moment to moment Vibration or frequency Um, like that's just continued basically above everything else. So above everything else There's like this constant stream of inquiry. You could say that's just pervading Your existence above everything else is just like this this solve this um Um Above like in the north star position is just a constant stream of inquiry that into the nature of self into the nature of sensation Into the nature of reality that just is running in the background You know frank a good friend frank yang that's called it like the contemplative fitness ai That's just constantly running Yeah Yeah, and I I love that way of expressing it to and then that to an extent as it As as you've exhausted in a sense All association Throughout the day non-stop every day It also subsides because all there all that's left is just what is Yes, and that's yeah Yeah, what you're saying is is very true. It's clear I would I would like modify it slightly just for because not because what you said is wrong But just because language is tricky and just to continue the conversation that It's that's exactly right inquiry if done properly and I try to really describe it in my chapter in the book. Um Well, you can't really do it improperly as long as your heart's in the right place You're really curious about reality. What is self? What is thought? What is anything right? What is solidity? If you're really curious, you really can't really do it wrong But there are some nuances that you can tune tune into and and inquiry can become very powerful But what I really try to do in that chapter is a tune people to inquiry in a way that When these self layers start to fall away, that's what's already happening. You'll you'll see that it is it's like There's no one doing the inquiry, but it's an absolute fascination with with reality Just fascinating with itself coming into being out of absolutely nothing all the time It's crazy, but it's doing it and it's it's just it's literally a radical fascination But it's like also I want to point out like it's not like the inquiries in the background It is but it's also in the foreground and they're and it's looking to see is there a difference between a background and a Foreground and all of a sudden the background and foreground are one in the same So now what is space even mean? What does distance even mean? Right? It's that that's the kind it's going on all the time It's just this fascination with reality being fascinated with itself and Never even happening at all. Nothing is moving at all and that's chiata emptiness, you know, unconditioned. So Frank's right on the money. It's exactly I know I don't know personally, but I've watched a couple of videos and he's very he's right on so It's uh, yeah, I mean it really becomes indescribable Nice and another one that came up while you're sharing was the like the still flame for Movement and not moving at all at the same time um yeah, and Just like the piece at the same time as the exterior artistry um There's just uh, there's a spontaneity or like a bounciness that comes with the artistry when it's like free um Yeah, so it's not referencing like a self image. Um all the time basically um The default mode you could say or the mind mode or the matrix mode is to always be filtering everything through a sense of self image um And then that at some point drives you so crazy with suffering So then it's like the drill sergeant of like fucking waking up and then um And then there's like just what feels like slowly like this like just dissolving of all attachment to self image um And then just like associating oneself Identity wise more and more with nothing and everything at the same time and of course something also um and just covering all the bases and just feeling like really good that uh To be like identity like to be so entangled in no identity and something and everything all at the same time um and um And I yeah, and I just I feel like that that's at the core. We're talking about Last 20 minutes or so, which is great. Um, so we've been first that are curious like, um You know when we were talking earlier and you and I mentioned that Just even the calming down of the fluctuations of mind like using the breath as a tool Is a really good how to basically bring a steady Uh concentration or focus to Your moment-to-moment experience of sensations and sense of self And then from there it becomes easier and easier to liberate yourself from self image into this weight difference Yeah, yeah, yeah, you you mentioned um Man, I lost it. I'm with you right here. So everything you say it just disappears, but um Okay with consciousness specifically, uh with calming calming the mind. Um Again, you know meditation meditative practice can be helpful following the breath all these different things um, but I just want to point out for anyone listening that um, I I Generally I do this different ways with everyone everyone wakes up differently, but I generally Do emphasize A first shift a first awakening. It's it's very zen like this is very brenzai zen like actually and it tends to be The people I work directly that the tends to tends to happen that there's a very very distinct and abrupt shift that happens Which is probably the biggest shift you'll ever experience um As far as contrast is concerned and it's the first big awakening can show um, and it is What it does actually is it's a it's a If you can make the mind one-pointed enough through inquiry Self-inquiry can work inquiry into the nature of thought and who's the thinker Inquiry into the nature of consciousness itself, which is what the thought is formed out of what the thought is made out of What it subsides back into and what it appears out of it's all consciousness. It's all that thought that thought game So you can inquire into the nature of that So continuously that it just becomes nothing but that Or just a very one-pointed approach by just boring into something like mu. What is mu? Something that no concept can get a hold of and yet you can just become more and more and more One-pointed with mu until it's just mu moving mu. So how however you do this That you can get to this point where the mind is so concentrated or conscious There's such a one-pointed approach inside consciousness that an actual reset happens It really is a reset in consciousness and it can be tremendously Tremendous release for people. It's very life-altering for many people For almost everyone really But from then on it's actually much easier to access this Unbound consciousness this ability to remain in consciousness With really no content no thought content and then and from there you realize pretty much all the content of your life Is thought content right them everything is mind every everything you can make into an object of any kind at all It really is made out of thought and this is how some people With that first awakening start to perceive everything is made out of consciousness Like there's no external world with all consciousness out there and that's a that's a reasonable Interpretation of that stage of realization it does go beyond that for sure But from that place it is so freeing because you can just stop And just experience yourself and everything is consciousness that it really can be with no content It's like the big s the self with the big s, you know And so so yeah calming the mind meditative practice is all that's great But if you really want to dig into this Then I often sort of push people a little bit toward that. I say, you know Develop a one-pointed approach or just orient to the nature of thought itself and really find out what's in there What is consciousness? What is what is the sense of you as the thinker right now? That's never changed throughout your life when you've been awake and yet the thoughts change all the time What is that is it apart from the thoughts that kind of thing? So I I really try to orient people to that because after that big reset in consciousness the first awakening It's much easier much much easier to address these further layers the layers of separation the layers of inherent view the layers of the reactive self the relational self these are all just Mechanisms of selfing You're much more They're much more you can do it those are the layers that still feel like self even when you know There's not a self right there's still the things that catch you and make you feel contracted So it's much easier to address. I love it has a verb. It's so funny. Yeah I love it as a as a verb. Yeah, selfing is so that's so good. Yeah, um, yeah That it's an actual like movement of consciousness is Whether it's tied to a sense of self or not or going through the process of inquiring into that type of sense of stuff It's actually a very small collection of mental faculties It's really just a handful of things that that continue to create a very seemingly solid sense of self And yet if you just one by one you you disassemble those or you inquire into them Deeply enough that you see there's actually no self doing that And with non-duality specifically the sense of there's not actual boundaries like formlessness You're actually inquiring into Then you're really inquiring into the nature of of the relationship of thought or mind To the senses themselves. That's ultimately what it is But it's you know, it's like is there actually a boundary if I can look at an object and look at my hand How long does the how long does attention stay there? Before it starts popping back into mind to reference something in thought meaning narrative Labels about what I'm looking at Often the narratives are about the practice like oh am I experiencing this well so and so said that is it? Wait a minute. That's all thought put your attention right back there, right? That's very very hard to do before awakening. It's it's surprisingly hard to do and I call it direct experience So once you have access to direct experience These these further layers are not that hard to to Disassemble it takes some shadow work often though really I mean you really sometimes the stickiness that keeps pulling you into mind is about Certain kinds of traumas or whatever your vasanas are, you know Your collection of of baggage you need to work with and sometimes you have to go back and do that Like really look through the emotion body and find out what's going on feel things that you've not been feeling all your life and In a very direct way that you might not want to and then find the resistance patterns and see What is resistance anyway? What is it even made out of energetically and like these direct investigations? So yeah Whoo, so good I'm just checking out the comments over here Hello everybody Everyone how are we still doing on audio and video? We still doing okay? Um, let us know in the comments how it's how it's going. You've been great by the way in terms of audio And video on my end. Oh good occasionally. There's a little video thing, but uh, otherwise it's good And uh and me right now you can hear me clearly the video. Okay Uh, your video freezes on occasion. It'll just freeze in a but it's always a nice posture It's always a good look on your face or something and then like a contemplative look and then it starts moving But your sound has been perfect from from my end. Oh cool. Good. Good. Okay Oh man So So good. Um Okay, I feel like it would be relevant to um to play a bit on what you were just sharing with um Some like steps and stages and then um some house along that so let's see if we can do a little recap so um, we have like We have a We're very like drawn to So what appears like the physical world and we're very drawn and like attached to that and all the objects and all the The differences and the separation And we don't really even recognize that there's like consciousness that kind of everything is like dependent on and then and then we like so the first sort of shift is like Away from the senses and away from the physical objects and the separation and the distinction to like, okay Well, what is the thing that is conscious or sentient or aware of everything and then then you get to oh, okay, so um This has to be the ground like sentience or consciousness has to be like some sort of a ground and then Then then there's more of like an impersonalization or a transpersonalization You could say of that consciousness into like, oh, this is all the same observer all the same consciousness Which is infinite and like in some of the you a universe is like What we are and we like we made a universe to like to explore and like Okay, uh-huh. So there's another stage and then And then I think then Like which I think a lot of people also end on that as a ground which I think is a great Place also to to speak about realization. I think that's also a great place like But then I think this next one is where I think is kind of like where the athletes of consciousness like to go or the olympics of consciousness are played which is where There's an investigation of the nature of self On a moment-to-moment basis the nature of experience and sensation and self image and the way that I I appear and I try and Extract something from another self or I want to be seen in a specific way So I say so I say specific words to try and get something Um to fill some sort of a lack belief that I've had about myself since childhood like you indicated It can be very traumatic kid as well And so then there's like a much more of a moment-to-moment inquiry into the nature of sensation experience self And liberating oneself more and more into the unconditionality And I would say that that is then the awakeness. Is that about a somewhat similar way that you would share levels? You actually summarized it really really well I'll just add a little bit in as as I go through that same model But as you described the first big shift is like wow I mean you you just have this access to unbound consciousness unbound Being really being this of what you've taken yourself to be all of a sudden that just expands out into infinity And some people perceive it as like a sense of pure sense of I am not a thought of I am but the sense that I am Is the most primary thing that can be experienced and it's self-validating and it's more real than anything you took to be real before And that and and other people it goes It's a little more it goes a little bit more almost to what you described as the transpersonal Where there is that sense of pure consciousness? But then there's like something that's even almost more thin going on and and that so that shift that that New place you find identity in a sense. Let's say or identity just dilates out into infinity in a sense That is like waking it is like waking up from the matrix really that first shift what I often say is what comes after that is like You're you actually wake up from one matrix and you're kind of in another one But it's a very different kind of matrix. It's it's far bigger. It's far more flexible It's like it's like the matrix is safety mechanism to keep you in in the big in the real matrix Because you wake up from one and that can be also part of your story. So Um, so this really is that first shift that first awakening really is the beginning of the true spiritual progression spiritual in quotes if you think of it this way, but it's the progression of Realization it's it's the first and very important shift stream entry. Let's call it The the what's interesting is the way you proceed beyond that if you do it all and as you said a lot of people That's I don't know if it's just based on conditions and so forth or what it is I feel often it's based on Something in the background From the human level emotional things and so forth that keep you not wanting to look deeper in a way It's it's like a little bit of fear bearer still there is often with these people there But it but it's but it's common that people sort of stay there for a long time after um So I think we're changing things I think with the like the internet with you know, Adi Shanti, Frank Yang, Gangaji Like you can turn on youtube and see enlightened beings and and and literally Vibe with them immediately on the video. You don't have to go meet them. It's amazing I think we're changing that I think people are starting to actually wake up deeper Probably more Probably faster And certainly in greater numbers. I'm I'm almost positive of that and I've talked to many people have been In this sort of teaching thing for a lot longer than I have And they they tend to agree but But yeah, the the way you approach realization beyond that first Realization before before that first awakening Is just different and it's different and you have to kind of look at it in different ways You have to look for subtle things But but on the other side of things you have to do the personal work You have to do shadow work at some level You just have to because that's the easiest way to not wake up further is is to like just not see something in yourself To convince yourself you're enlightened, you know, and then go convince other people you're enlightened Which can get into some really weird stuff. So um, so yeah, the the ways that you investigate identity beyond Consciousness are reasonably subtle somewhat specific And require a modicum of humility Willingness to be vulnerable to feel and see Mostly feel things you haven't wanted to feel and you've built identities to avoid feeling we all do it Everyone's done it And so so you've got to kind of look at different places You can't just meditate yourself into enlightenment like after that by trying to have Nervi Kulpa Samadhi 24-7 like that's not the answer From from here on it's it's part of the answer and meditation is great And you you should keep doing it and keep inquiring but it's important to inquire in certain places and This is where I put this very early in the book But this piece of advice that I could give one one piece of advice for the whole spiritual journey There's probably a handful but one I think that's probably the most important or at the top is Be willing to be uncomfortable Like don't convince yourself that this whole process is going to be nothing but bliss and In peace and mind expanding cosmic experiences. You're going to probably have those But that's not all you're going to have just trust me on this People I work with that are very very sincere about this and wake up And it's their priority in life and they wake up to very Deep and nuanced stages of realization they go through a lot and and but they're willing to do it You know, and we're all you know, there are days when I don't want to do it You won't want to do it and whatever but there are you have to have some commitment willingness to go through The root of suffering, right? You have to you have to get to the root of it. You have to find out what it's about And oh, this is one thing I wanted to address that you mentioned before What the suffering is what sort of prompts us in the first place But it really turns out that suffering is grace, right? Without that suffering without that huge doubt mass without feeling like a prisoner in my own mind it From the time I was I don't know like 10 to 24 years old I don't know if I would have done this. It takes a lot to actually break through these barriers A lot of surrender a lot of willingness to let go so so in retrospect suffering really is grace If you don't you know, if you don't go completely unconscious and use it to perpetuate violence or something But it's the raw fuel of awakening for sure So be willing to to feel everything that's you're going to have to feel You're going to feel things you don't want to feel every single person who goes through this Will feel things they don't want to feel by definition because again identity is actually structured to avoid pain To avoid things we don't want to see but when that pain is A result of identity Then we have to actually go into it. We have to see it Clearly for identity to disentangle itself so we can truly know what freedom is Nice. I remember Houston also on our shows said that the suffering or the pain or fear always Are the divine fuel And so if there's like a new relationship that we make like you're suggesting to The nature of sensation and experience where we're recognizing it as a As a school or for the one for itself and that style approach is to see it as divine fuel it to like To just feel that as divine fuel it just changes everything And I love that but so that would be your one big like takeaway is to like tune in to how Everything that arises is like divine fuel for the one to wake up to itself. Yep. Another way of saying that is There's a lot of talk of presence now right in pop culture and wellness culture in in awakening all of it presence, right and Everyone knows what presence is at some level of course but what I often will point out to people is like presence can be blissful peaceful contentless Intimate it's wonderful, right, but it can also be sadness Sadness is present like when there's sadness That's presence presence is expressing as sadness or Anger or frustration like all of those experiences Are truly Buddha nature, right? Everything ultimately is awake nature. It is So that doesn't exclude anything. So when you find something comes up from your unconscious and it's like, oh my god There's shame. I'm feeling shame. Feel it Feel it. Don't deny it. Don't pretend it's not there. Don't tell yourself. I'm too awake for that It's that's nonsense. It's it's an experience every experience is allowed reality doesn't filter experiences It doesn't have a problem with any experience. It's it's perfectly. Okay. Everything is perfectly okay here and That kind of willingness, you know, that that is probably I don't know. It's my number one my number one advice, honestly my number one piece of advice is Trust that there is that there's that there's a way out of suffering really like if you're suffering And some something some glimmer inside you picks up this message. We're talking about and and it says, yes I know that like I've heard this so many times from people like I remember that from childhood or yeah There was this time when you know for a week. I can feel it all the time and don't um Don't discount that don't discount your intuition that that you have there's an ability to live in peace to live in intimacy spontaneity enjoyment of life And orient to that give yourself permission to orient to that even though the social matrix Does not value it the social matrix values whatever it values, right? It values relationships money success fame health Competition like different things This is none of those things and yet you know it and if you know it if you can feel it even a little part of your being Orient to that and make it a priority And you as christ said knocking it will be opened period like is is that True that this has that kind of gravity that you have A birth it is your birth, right? You have the ability to wake up. That's the number one message ultimately Probably number two is and be willing to be uncomfortable some of the time and you won't be able to decide when that is always But some of some of this comes with discomfort. It's not all discomfort, but To to convince yourself it's supposed to be all bliss supposed to be all whatever You'll just be bypassing at some point and and you you may miss some really good opportunities To find what is what does it feel like? What does non-duality feel like in sadness? When there's no body there's no story. There's no gain or loss What is that? Right here. Yeah That opportunity is there for all of us So I would say in that order those are probably my top couple pieces of advice And the third one would be something like Don't take my descriptions audience shanties descriptions or muji's descriptions or patanjali's descriptions or You know Nagarjuna don't don't take anyone else's descriptions As more important or better than your experience Not your opinions, but your experience your experience should should really be primary all the time And these pointings these videos these people the writings the books all of it if you resonate great awesome expose yourself to it plenty But don't look at your own experience and go. Well, mine's probably wrong because patanjali said this right? Don't do that. It's not That's not the point of the pointing by somebody who knows how to point or who is really Genuinely trying to point you to your true nature Um trust The immediate even if it's neutral even if it feels contentless You know, don't look at it. You know, well, I'm supposed to feel bliss. So something must be wrong Oh, that's a thought. Oh, there's self doubt in that. Oh, okay. That's what I'm feeling right now All of a sudden presence right a deeper Experience of presence. So trust your trust your immediate experience would probably be my third I don't know guideline Cool So you can wake up Trust your And what was the third again? Well, just be willing to be uncomfortable at times. Oh, that's right We'll be willing to see it as a school. So You can wake up Trust your immediate experience and be willing to see it as a school Yeah, I love those Those are great. Ah So great. I mean next time we talk we I may have different ones, but That's what's coming right now. Yeah I was Yeah, I was also just really feeling that I was feeling like this first episode is a Just like a connection point between us like our first But that Every time I meet This sort of like awake vibrancy that also knows how to like Shepherd itself that seeks like so all the other self that still seeks To wake up. So every time I feel this Radiance with another self like this feels so good right now And it only feels like the beginning of something really beautiful together That can be visited maybe every couple of months like every quarter or something can Revisit together and do a show and just check in on how also like how we're sharing How our formation of like the levels or the And how we're communicating those Stages to the people that are asking So it it feels it feels great bro and it in And I can tell like I can always tell like it's a vibration. It's a signature It's a presence and it feels really good together Yeah, I agree At the beginning of the talk, I'm I'm always a With an interview, especially if someone I don't know and so forth and I and more importantly I don't know your audience I'm always a little cautious of like how direct to be because because this can really freak people out Like this can really destabilize if I push people to clearly To directly with certain kinds of pointings. So as I was talking to you I can tell you Totally get it energetically and stuff and and it's I just assume your audience is basically the same way so so I'm a more App to just talk however, it's like when I went on zoom and show like I really thought I had a Z dog md. I had to sit him down and be like, you know I didn't sit down, but I had to tell him like You might have people in your audience like disappear after this. They they may not Enjoy it as much as you do. It can be really triggering to some people Like I always I always feel responsible for for the message in a sense. That's a wonderful message But it's it's again it's pointing to something that's a very very powerful potential transformation in your life and If you're not ready for it. It's not something you want to be pushed into so when when I talk to him initially I really was like, okay, we just got to be a little cautious how we introduce it And he did something he had never done before he did an introduction before our talk to kind of give people a sense of like You're not interested in this just tune out and watch my other stuff, you know because you know his audience is is Varied quite varied, you know a lot of medical people and so forth but even then After those talks I've met so many medical professionals and logical people and scientific people who were totally turned off by spirituality because they thought it felt too woo-woo and so forth, but Like the directness and the the simplicity I guess with which he and I discussed it. So every audience is a little different I'm always a little, you know, like what do they really want to hear? How much do they want to hear? How directly do they want this? But clearly you You're good with it Yeah, well some of it, um I would say it's it to an extent it's it's twofold where on one side it's the interest of um Like the channel itself like um Like I love the word channel because of that. Um, it's such a good word and so The interest of this channel or this expression of the one is This and like then that's like that's what it is. That's what it came to it came to Exploring entrepreneur happiness than exploring entrepreneurship than exploring science and exploring spirituality And then realizing. Oh, I am it. Oh, this is what it is. Uh, and then Yeah, and then, you know, so that that that is now more and more so The nature of the channel is to like simplify what it is to the rest of itself And that's what is left. Um, and there's nothing more like exhilarating to do But also to like build up the planetary architectures that enable Basic needs to be met decentralization to flourish for everybody to actually be able to like spend more time to actually inquire into the nature of reality rather than being so scattered and needing to invest all their time into accruing Dollars and basic needs to be met that kind of thing. So so there's a and that's and that's the uniqueness of of this channel um And then people do tune in sometimes people tune in more towards some of the more science or business heavier stuff um, and they tune some tune really deeply into only this, um, like entheogenic Really just unleashing the divine or god from within. Um more and more um And that's the same thing with you bro is like you're in the same boat where It doesn't really feel like you said you have a job. What is your job? Oh, i'm an anesthesiologist An anesthesiologist Dude you've been putting people to sleep your whole life. I love it when people would say that. That's so funny Another uh another person in no limit society Nancy she also was was an anesthesiologist and so as she was as she was waking up She's like I couldn't can't fucking believe it that um, I've been putting people to sleep my whole life. Um, it's just a funny thing Yeah, it is. Yeah, I mean i've always been fascinated with like consciousness. I suppose You know, maybe they have been it's an unconscious decision for that reason, but yeah um For sure. Are you also considering going full time into this or how do you feel? um You know, I like the balance honestly. I like medicine, uh, I like I like interacting with people In that way, it's it's a way to serve for sure. Um, so I don't really feel moved to to alter that necessarily because I have plenty of time like life is fascinating It really is amazing what it's done to like open up time for me to do what i've been doing to write the book To do youtube videos. I've been making a video every day for a few months now just for fun Um, and I talked to a lot of people who are going through the waking process and so forth. So Not necessarily at this point Uh, things seem balanced they seem to I don't I don't feel pushed for time necessarily Or like I can't do something I want to do that are that i'm ready to spend time doing Uh, it's more just feeling into When conditions feel right to I don't know start the next book or whatever. So at this point things seem good Nice um I also just got a I'm uh, okay to check another area of uh Of the house Well, just because I'm I know I'm just interested in uh And if it if it actually is the case I can get a significantly better um internet connection in a different room so Let's let's see if that is the case Uh, how how is it now? Let's see. Let's just let's just It's similar I think Yeah, I can hear you okay. I've not had a problem with your sound personally someone over here mentions the sound issue earlier, but I I haven't had any problem with your sound But your your image just it just freezes on occasion. Uh, and it's kind of pixelated sometimes but not all the time It seems like an intermittent thing visually And let's see if the bars changed. No, it actually hasn't so let's see here maybe it is just Are you on wi-fi connection or oh it's back up to 8 out of 10. Um Yeah, I think I'll just I think I'll go back. Yeah, I am on a wi-fi, but uh, that's another thing to Okay, I'm shifting back. Uh, I think I'm shifting back So And then we'll wrap also we'll wrap here shortly We have uh one of my uh, one of my housemates said that this property has, um Um Steel in the walls that makes the signal weaker. Oh, wow, which is which is So so yeah, we can just uh, we can wrap in this uh And this is also good to know is that when I'm when I'm traveling because normally I've had a for the last like three Four almost years. Yeah almost four years. I've had a recording studio In uh in san francisco in an la and so Yeah, so I've been in cali almost almost 10 years for almost a decade and I've almost always had like a really awesome internet connection and studio setup and all this type of stuff And now I've sort of created more of like a mobile unit for myself Um, and that's a lot smaller and that allows me to be a little more nomadic and travel and so Now that I'm working a team on the mission, which is just igniting global awakening for this collector basically um another Yeah, so now it's um The internet connections are also because we're sometimes we move and jump around and so the internet connections can fluctuate and so Um, that's another thing to keep in mind is that if I do these um remote ones Is we can also just do them and zoom and record them and then upload them and that might be Save because that live component is so nice and I love seeing people's live comments. I love bringing them in I love the increase also in um the algorithm for for being live and whatnot But in the case of freezing video and occasional freezing audio and that kind of thing It's not worth it because we want the absolute highest quality of those two things primarily Um, because we want it to be a good asset. So I keep moving forward. I'm just gonna When I don't have a little internet connection. I'm just going to record So even for our next episode if I am in a place that does not have a stable connection We'll just do it on zoom Okay, fair enough So, yeah, there was actually also a lot of good, um commentary Like you were saying, uh It's like people enjoying that episode. It was good to hear from them. Um, yeah So Mm-hmm. I also just Tat for a moment like my my uh, my video audio just put them a little bit More also choppy a second ago. Let's see. Let's uh Okay, we'll uh Let me uh, let me move over a little bit a part I didn't give myself some all this thing Let's see. How is it right now? Looks good All right. Sound is good. Mm-hmm sound is good The video video is a little low-res, but it's moving and looks fine Okay, cool I could also, um, see what the How the internet is out here and uh, it does it does. I think it's gonna be a little bit better out here. It's a little bit, uh Playing the internet game. Okay How uh, how is it? Sound is good picture frozen right now And every every time it freezes it's like a it's actually like a really cool image. It's like art Maybe it's just my interpretation But sound is good Am I am I unfrozen? Uh, right now you're frozen It's kind of a blurry image from when you were moving to the hallway. I think Oh, that's fucking weird. Oh, so there's also probably a stability to it. Like it likes, uh being in one location There's probably also like a little bit of uh Um that that going on Okay, let's um, let's uh, let's go back to the room. So let's see how it goes. I also Uh asked some of the uh the housemates about Just uh, if they didn't need the internet To disconnect for a little bit, but um Sweet, I mean I'm feeling really good. I'm feeling really good about our first convo. I'm feeling really good about Um, the way it went the way that we clicked just our energy our play together Um, how we describe it. I think how we describe it is Like comes from many of the same like ways of Exceeding paths and then bringing it all together into like one like one that can shape shift across as needed and um And just also to speak about a very directly to the point. Um Mm-hmm I love it. And yeah, it's it was really fun. It was so good. It was so good Yeah, and thanks all for coming on uh an hour earlier given. Oh, you're welcome Happen and uh, I really appreciate that flexibility and love and Um, it worked out great because then we got these four for this 90 minutes. Um, it was it was really nice Yeah, my pleasure So cool having you on so cool Oh also, um for everybody. Thank you for tuning in. We love you guys. Thanks. Yeah. Thanks for coming Yeah, we would love if you guys would Subscribe to not only simulation our channel also angelo's channel. Um, you can find that link in the bio below You can like this video that helps the algorithm You can comment below with your thoughts on resonated in the episode. We'd love to hear from you Also, you can check on angelo's website as well that links in the bio below simply always awake Check it out. Um, and he's got a bunch of stuff on there including videos audio stuff some, uh I think even like some of the the book is linked. Um, most of the videos are there um So you can find that there. I also put the the awake. It's your turn the the book link in the Bio of the video also um, you can check that out and Yeah, go and support him and support him more Doing the love Yeah, I wish everyone I was just gonna say I wish everyone watching fruition peace yes So good. Thank you for that. Yeah 100% We wish you all fruition peace love prosperity abundance playfulness Spontaneity Yeah freedom, baby Oh On a lived direct experience on a non conceptual level. Yeah, it's so good Sweet, um, I'll end the I'll end the call and then you and I can actually stay in the uh studio for a minute And uh, thanks again. Let's get everyone much love. Thank you