 Welcome back and for our final conversation as we are marked the second investor of the lekkie massacre and the NSAS protests of 2020 in Nigeria. One year after the National Economic Council was chaired by Nigeria's Vice President Yamiya Shepajou, a director of states to pay compensation to victims of police brutality in the country. Indications show that many states have yet to comply with the directive. Only Lagos State, Oshun, Ekiti and the federal capital territory have complied with the NEC resolution. This is happening as activists are saying that they will hold rallies to commemorate the second anniversary of the NSAS protests at the lekkie target in other parts of Nigeria today. About 51 civilians, 11 police officers and 7 soldiers reportedly died in the unrest while scores of protesters were detained. Consequently, the Presidency of Nigeria and the state governments set up judicial panels of inquiry to investigate the cases of police brutality and extrajudicial killings amongst others. Following the order, 28 states and the federal capital territory set up panels while states like Yobi State, Bono State, Jigawa State, Kano State, Kebis State and Sakota State as well as Zanfa State failed to do so. Over 2,500 petitions were submitted to the panels across the nation and two years on, however, after the deadly protests, many states have yet to implement the panel's recommendations, including the compensation for victims of violence. It's a really sad situation. Now joining us to discuss this issue of justice for victims via the judicial panels, I'm glad to say we have a political analyst at GK Chud on the line. At GK Chud, good morning to you. Thank you very much for your time. Yeah, good morning. What's your assessment of the treatment of victims of police brutality in Nigeria, especially with the existence of these judicial panels of inquiry? For legal status a case in point that was really well publicized and followed after the judicial panel of inquiry submitted its report in which it described the incident at Leci as a massacre. The government set up a committee, another committee to produce a white paper. So give us your thoughts on what is transpired after the various panels concluded their work. Yeah, well, you know, it was at the reason why the answers as a massacre attracted so much national, national, you know, attention and led to the unprecedented social upheaval, if I will describe it as such, as socially protest and angst by the civilian populace, especially the youths. You know, the reason they're like so much of the north are felt that they have a different kind of issue. They are tackling insecurity and not necessarily police brutality. And that's why in your report you did say that many states in the north did not set up the judicial panels of inquiry into police brutality, neither did they recommend their compensation. And so it is very, very clear that it was a situation that attracted the interest of Nigerians and across all walks of life. And then even the international community was as serious as that because the situation was unprecedented for youthful populace to who have tried to be quite political to, and then people would say laid back and don't say I'm passive for them to have acted in unison in such a spontaneous manner across many parts of the country. I think it was unprecedented and in a way very, very welcome. But again, you know, it started as a protest against a police repression and police brutality. But it quickly moved beyond that and people began to ask and it became political because people were not asking other questions. Why are we where we are? Why are things not working the way they should work in a country that has been richly blessed with them? You know, with the human population, most of them youths. And then there would be a lot of natural and mineral resources. Why is there so much corruption? Why is it this even the security forces not being treated well, which has also led to some extent to some of their business that they are suffering. So they began to make political, you know, statements and demands. And all of this is for the betterment of any country. And then we now had the response from the governments, not just, you know, using the army and then especially the army and the police had to shoot into the crowd and then create that up because that massacre took place. So it became contentious whether there was actually a massacre because the government, the federal and the other state governments, especially the state government, you know, began to say that actually they were not, there are no casualties in terms of fatalities, but you have people that were injured. And so there are all kinds of stories. But I think the general belief is that there was a massacre. You don't turn off the light at the Nilekidong gate and then bringing the soldiers who use light bullets. And yet I want to make that short sporadically and then discriminate me to the crowd to tell us that there was no fatality. But beyond that, like you said, the Lagos state government set up a judicial panel of inquiry. And Lagos was the epicenter. So there was so much concentration on that judicial panel. And they acted, you know, people would say contrary to maybe government expectation, they showed a lot of bravery. The female judge, I can't remember her name now, who headed that panel, was fantastic. And then she was looking beyond even the whatever, I mean, she was looking, but she wanted to write her name in gold, obviously. And she did well because they came out with a report that indicated the state government that set up that panel in the first place and then the federal authorities. You know, don't you think that was right? So the strange thing about the whole thing was that you now see the government that set up that inquiry, now fighting with the content of the report made by that inquiry. This was a panel that you set up, you chose the very right people because and the government said it, the Lagos state government that these were people of integrity who could do a very good job. And at the end of the day, they had done, they did the job. And because that job did not favor you, you decided to denigrate and to ridicule the findings of that panel. So that is where we are. So obviously the president, the vice president said yes, states have a duty to pay compensation and the vice president is right. But what compensation has been paid by the federal authorities? And if you look at it, the fact is that the police institution, for instance, which was in the eyes of the storm, is an institution of the federal government, not of the state governments. And so there must also be some level of responsibility. Then the operational areas of this police, that is a federal institution, are within the states. They operate within the ambits of the state. So the states themselves cannot isolate themselves from the activities of these police people. And then I decided that the federal government cannot. So you need to have a synergy. You need to have both taking responsibility for what happens. So let's talk about taking responsibility. You talked about the need for compensation to be paid, but how can compensation be paid where you have some states, I mean, about seven states who didn't really have a panel. Because we understand that after all of this happened, in response to the recommendation or the consent of these protesters, NEC actually had said that states should actually establish a judicial panel. And so across the 36 states of the federation, including the FCT, one would say, but you have like seven states with no panel. And you also have, on the other hand, another seven states who actually had a panel, but did not submit their report. I'd like you to share your thoughts on this. If the response of the government was really honest. Well, I think it is obvious that both federal and state authorities were not exactly interested in ensuring that justice is done to victims. And the reality, and you ask yourself why? And the reason may not be far-fetched. The reality of our situation in this country is that you have political actors who have been elected by the people and who have been subsidized or being paid, have been taken care of by the monies that belong to the general public. But paradoxically, they are not exactly interested in the welfare of the people that put them in power. And so this is why, and in so many other aspects of our national life, we see the irresponsibility and insensitivity of political actors, elected public officials to the issues of governance. The fact that we have a country that is less, like I said, with vast populations that could be put to productive use and vast arrays of natural and mineral resources. And yet the country is following in a grinding poverty, gives you an indication that there is no connection between the people and those who are supposed to govern them and provide, according to constitutional provisions, provide for the safety and welfare of the people. So the response to the people, for instance, of the victims of the insens, is simply a continuation of the irresponsibility and insensitivity of governments over time. Yes, I agree that some states did not set up the empanies of inquiry. But four of those states that set up the empanies of inquiry, I think we should start from them. What are their reports like? And we have not seen reports from some of these states. Look, the police have almost like forever brutalized the Nigerian people. We're very, very long time, everybody knows it. One is not seen in that, look, it is something that is peculiar to the Nigerian security forces authorities. We see this even in the developed countries of the world, where you have some levels of police brutality from time to time. But that's about, we should be concerned more with what has happened in Nigeria and how to address some of these issues. So and since the government in general terms have been able to agree that, yes, our police forces have been guilty of a serious of a police brutality and the maltreatment of Niger citizens, then we should also, they should also make sure that the people first who have been guilty of the most egregious crimes of police brutality should be brought to a book, should be heard accountable. They must not be allowed to get away with the atrocities that they have been committing against the people. And then for those people that have been clearly identified as having, because that was why they also asked them to bring evidence of actions of police officers against them and then to also make sure that immediately that they've disciplined and compensated. And I think that this is what we need to do because if you want to put the past behind us, then you must make sure that you cross the T's and dot the I. It's very, very important. So compensation is a key element of reconciliation. Okay. Okay. I'll ask you two questions in one before we go. You've said compensation is a key element of bringing closure to this. But the argument to be is compensation enough. Lagos state government ended up paying, of course, after the federal government directed states to pay compensation. Some states like a whiteboard state and Benway states that it's not the duty of the state governments to pay compensation for police brutality. But Lagos state paid out 420 million error while Oshun state paid out 53.2 million errors presented by Governor Ayatollah to 13 victims. In May, National Human Rights Commission publicly called the Abuja panel paid 439 million error. The state government is both 21.5 million error. But you rightly said that the Lagos state white paper ripped apart, you know, I'm not quoting, you know, but they taught the shreds. They end suspect panel report accepting just 11 of the 32 recommendations. And the white paper went on to say that they were inconsistency, inconsistencies and contradictions with the entire JPR report. And the governor and the state government threw that white paper basically saying that they disagree with things like people dying, all right, at Leci Toget, whereas the panel report, you know, said there were evidence, overwhelming evidence of killings. Now, governor of Lagos state said that they're bringing closure to the painful episode, you know, after presenting the white paper report. Now, I'm asking you, is this really closure? Having come up with a white paper that has basically rubbish the JPR report, having paid compensation. Yes, you paid compensation. Is it truly closure if those who are perpetrators of number one, the leci killings, are not identified and made to face justice? But those who ordered the killings, those who carried out the order, is there really closure? Like someone who has said, if they're not identified, sorry, sir, sorry, sir, identified and made to face justice. Number two, if the perpetrators of police brutality for all these persons who have been identified and paid compensation are also not brought to book. That's number one. Number two, what should happen to the over 40 people who are still in prison as we speak, as identified by Amnesty International from the end source period till now, 49 Germans who participated in the protests are still unlawfully in prison. Yeah, let me, good, let me, these are, these are wonderful questions and observations. Let me start with the last. Obviously, Nigerians are not going to support Abnaki. Nigerians are not going to support people who used the end source as a basis either to set those goals or to destroy personal properties or to loot properties if those things actually occurred. Even but at the same time, Nigerians will not tolerate a situation where people who exercise their fundamental right to dissent, you know, actually did that. And then the civil authorities are holding them and orchestrating them for many months after that accident, incident had happened. You know, obviously, you know, it is, it's a very funny situation where you people are kept in cells or prisons are waiting trial. So if they have done anything and then you need to provide evidence into the law court that this person did this in flagrant on the laws of this country, and then you prove your case, if you prove your case and they caught the time it says that this person actually committed all the surfaces. Such a person, you know, can be sentenced. I don't think Nigerians recorded with that, but we will not allow a certain situation where people who exercised their right to dissent are being incarcerated for no reason other than the angst and the malice. All right. So can you please quickly, quickly speak to bringing justice and make bringing those who perpetrated the acts of the mass to book just very shortly. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, obviously, you know, you cannot bring half closure and I agree with you for as long as the people who committed these atrocities have not even accepted. If you look at the, the, the South African truth and reconciliation, you know, commission, there was, there was acceptance by many of these people that they actually committed this for those who committed murders, they actually committed murders. That's how you also bring closure to a matter. And then the issue now became, what do we do with these people? Do we forgive them? And so the victims are brought in to, to, and they will be asked questions about what you think we should do, what kind of justice do you think we should met out to these people? Now that is critical. We have not seen this. What you saw is your authorities denying what happened. Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. I do apologize that we, we have to call it at that point, but we appreciate your time and doing justice to this topic. We'll be back tomorrow with more on the program right here, but we've had a quite an interesting conversation as we mark the Second Regression of the Leci Massacre. The conversation continues. So next year we'll be here by this time. My name is Gophie Bartel. Thanks for your time. And I am Messier Boko. Let's continue the conversation on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram, but plus TV Africa and plus TV Africa lifestyle. I am Messier Boko. Once again, have a great morning.