 This is Think Tech Hawaii. Community matters here. Good afternoon. My name is Mark Shklov, and I am the guest host standing in for Jay Fidel today on his program, Think Tech Global. And today we are going to talk with Tim Apichella, and I want to say that in the right way, the right Italian way to say it. Tim Apichella. And Tim is a consultant in transportation management. And a lot of what he does in his spare time involves transportation in a way. He travels the world. And his last trip was to Africa, but he's made about half a dozen other trips before that to Africa. It seems to be a favorite place of his. And Tim, I want you to talk about Africa today. So welcome. Good to see you. Thank you very much for having me. And thanks for getting my name right. It's not easy. It took me five years to figure it out. Well, people have a little hard time with my name, too. Hard to believe, but Shklov just doesn't roll off their tongue. I wouldn't be getting to know how to spell it, but I'll work on it. All right. Well, Tim, your last trip was to Africa. Tell me a little bit about your travels, first of all, and why you travel. Well. And then I want to get into Africa. Okay. Sure. Well, let me just kind of back up a little bit. I used to be in the banking industry. In the banking industry, you were lucky to get one week vacation at one time. Now, you could have been hired or accrued up to four weeks or five weeks of vacation time in a given year, but you were never allowed to take more than one week at a time. And that's just the way it was. That's banking in the 80s. Policy decision. You could have a three martini lunch. That was okay. But you can't take a vacation more than one week at a time. So that was my first career, and where did you go for one week? You just didn't really have time to go anywhere. And I was kind of restless in the banking industry, and it was a time where mergers were taking place, and it was just a wholesale slaughter. So I made a career change, and I went into government and traffic management reduction in Seattle area. And lo and behold, if you can accrue the time, as long as your desk was covered and your work was covered, you could take off for a month at a time. And it was great. So I've gone from one week of vacation, now I could take four weeks, and in one case I took off for eight weeks. Nice. Yeah, it was very nice. And again, it's like, okay, that's okay, that's acceptable. So I started in 1992, start taking one trip per year, and I tried to do this one country. I didn't try to do multiple countries in one month. Just one trip, one country, one month. But why? What moved you? What got you into this thinking of going to countries? I mean, you know, a lot of Americans like to stay home, you know, watch football. Well, I took criticism for this. I like to do that, too. I took criticism for this. You know, there was criticism. Why can't you just be happy and go to Disneyland? You know, and I got that. Why do you have to spend all your resources and all this money? You have nothing to show for. You have absolutely nothing to show for. Think of all the money you could have saved over the last two decades, and you bought something. So what is it that prompted you? You want the big long answer or you want a short one? I want the philosophical one. I got the philosophical. OK. OK. You ready for this one? Travel is like anything else. It's an experience. And why are we here? Is there meaning of life or is there meaning in life? And if it's meaning in life, which I think it is, that means I'm here to experience. I mean... And you're searching for it here. You know, experience is whatever it is. I mean, experience is neither positive or negative. It's experience. So if I departed the divine at some point in time and said, I want to spend my time, my 50, 60, 70, hopefully 90 years here on terra firma earth, why? Why would I want to depart the divine, you know, this blissful state of existence and come here to feel things in this mortal coil with my olfactory senses and my nerve receptors? Why? Well, for me, it's to experience. And travel, I think, is a huge part of experience. I actually had a quote that I wrote years ago and I'll just read it real quick. Travel is an experience. Things seen, bad smells, strange tastes, fantastic architecture, oppressive poverty, wonders of nature, lost money, stolen money, sweat, greasy hair, smelly socks, road jerk, cold beer, warm beer, great people, not so great people, and taxi drivers. We experience wondrous things while hauling our backpacks on the road. I believe all our lives will be a collection of all experiences, positive and negative, all of it. I value my travel experiences and a difficult time imagining my life without it. And I can see from what you just said, that as you're traveling, you're taking it all in and you're thinking about it. You're thinking about the experience and you're evaluating it in your philosophical way about your whole life. I think, well, when you're taking a 14-hour bus ride, you have a lot of time to think about everything at home, everything that's important to you, everything that maybe is not important to you. And it's a great time for reflection. It's a great time to declutter your life, add on to your life. What I realize is the importance of relationships in my life, past, present, potentially future relationships, the value of humanity and human beings in your life. And that's an important, for me, that's an important thing to think about and always try to improve on. Okay. So you chose various countries. You didn't choose Disneyland. You didn't... I've been to Disneyland. But for a lot of your travels over the years, you've gone to countries that are maybe a little bit rough. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And then talk about how you got to Africa. Yeah. Well, my philosophy is that when you're younger, you know, if you're going to take a 14-hour bus ride on a third-world bus, you know, where the tires are bald and there's no shocks on the bus, and, you know, you have carbon monoxide coming up through the holes in the bus, through the corroded holes in the chassis and the frame, you kind of need to be young. You kind of just need to have a good spine and, you know, have your motion sickness handled because, you know, your inner year is still working well. And so you tend to want to do the really hard travel when you're younger. And then as time goes on, it gets a little bit harder and harder. And then I'm sure at some point soon, I'm just going to go straight to Barcelona, Switzerland, and, you know, I'll avoid some other... A nice glass of wine and... You think you have that? And also, too. That's a good experience. Yeah. I could say that all my trips I've never been pampered. It's not a trip to be pampered on. It's you're living in pretty spartan, rough conditions. And is there any... I mean, you told us because you're young, okay, but you chose that, too. Right. I mean, you didn't choose the white sands of a beach to just lay on. You chose that, right? Well, I think a big part of it is, you know, you really want to expose yourself to other people's cultures. Okay. Yeah. I hear that. They just clear as I possibly can. The more I travel, even in the early days of traveling, every bit of humanity is the same no matter where you go. They want to provide a home for their children and their wives, or wives. They want to be able to put food on the table. They want to be able to send their children in and have them educated. They want to make sure that their home is free of crime and war. These are all common elements, whether it's mausoleum's needs of hierarchy of needs or not. I don't know how to classify it. But all humans, no matter what country, what language, what culture, we all want the same things for our children and our families. And that's something you saw as you're sitting on the bus? It's life-affirming that way. Yeah. It was very life-affirming. And, you know, you can't help but come back to the United States ago, I truly am blessed. Yeah. And I don't know how I got to be born here and have this set of family and these circumstances. But I'm just really thankful. And it teaches you how to be thankful for what you have and where you've been and where you live. So I want to dive going on to your time in Africa. And you chose Africa to go to, and you've been there seven times. Seven times. Seven different trips. And I mean, I understand your general philosophy. I think I've heard what it is. But specifically, why Africa? Why did you choose Africa? I believe that the world is becoming more and more homogenized. And I've seen that evidence. My first trip to Tanzania for two months was in 1994 with the advent of cell phones and technologies and CNN. We're becoming a much, much smaller world. And I could say, in the short 20 years, where I would go to a country and you would see people wearing traditional wear that they've worn for centuries, and now is being replaced with Levi jeans or designer jeans and crew shirts. And that's true in Africa? Yes. It's happening exponentially. I think when, you know, I've never been to Africa, but in my mind, you say Africa. And I'm thinking the traditional dress. We all carry a stereotype of what Africa is. I mentioned Africa to some people, and they think there's lines and rhinoceros right around every corner. In fact, it's not. It's, you know, there's a little strip mall around the corner. So first off, Africa is a huge, huge continent. It's, you know, take Canada, the United States, and Mexico, and it's a diverse, diverse continent. And so we all carry stereotypes of what Africa is. And it's, your stereotype would be shattered each and every time you go there. Yeah. I mean, when I, and I think of Africa as being very poor, a poor country, oppressed in many ways, and currently undergoing political problems. Strife, yeah. What is it like? I mean, is that, is that a, I mean. You know, again, that's kind of on the surface. Yeah, there's, there's indescribable poverty. But I will say that people are very, very rich in spirit. In fact, they have things hands down that we can't even begin to touch. Tell me. You go to any of them, you know, an Islamic based country in Africa, and by God, there's a brotherhood, whether you're a stranger or a distant relative or a distant cousin. There is a greeting and an acceptance and a, just this affection. Okay. So generally speaking, that, that's what you found when you were in Africa? Yeah. That's what I've witnessed. I mean, you know, there's, people talk about Southern hospitality in the United States. Well, if you ever go to an Islamic country, by God, they'll, they'll do hospitality above and beyond your expectations. I mean, you could be a complete stranger, and this has happened several times when I've traveled. I'm lost. You know, that's, that's, that's one of the things happen when you're lost. And they'll say, you know, can I help you? And they'll take you by the hand and they'll go, they could, they could be completely busy. They could have something they're working on, or they have to go or they're late. And they will go out of their way to hand, hold your hand and take you to where you're trying to get to. It's that kind of hospitality that you just don't see every day. Okay. And you found that throughout Africa? And is that? Not always, no. It depends on the, again, Africa is a, you know, a huge continent, so it depends on the culture of that country and, you know, and again, I've just found that in the Islamic countries, you have, and it is part of the religion, is that hospitality is paramount to being a Muslim, and they are, and they're, you know, they're very, very, very good at it. Well, I would dare say that there are some people nowadays that would not agree with you. Well, if you want to buy into the political stereotypes, we all can have at it. And unfortunately, when you tell family and friends or whoever, I'm going to, you know, I'm going to Egypt now, or after the Arab Spring, or I'm going to Tunisia, or I'm going to Mozambique, it's like, you know, what about terrorists? I go, I'm more likely to bump into a terrorist in New Jersey than I am in Mozambique. Or Texas or something like that. Yeah, yeah. And so, again, we have these stereotypes, and these stereotypes, for lack of a better term, are obstacles of fear that get in the way of our experiencing troop, a great life. And I don't care if it's about travel, it's stereotypes that are preventative from experiencing a really good life. And you travel, it sounds like you travel with the locals when you're traveling. Yeah, it's just, you know, no tour groups, just you get on the local bus and you go and you have your, you have one backpack. If you've got to take more than one little pack, and I mean a little pack, you can't bet these big ones, you're overpacked. Are you all alone on these trips? I'm with my wife at times, and then sometimes I've done alone, and so it's a combination of both. And, you know, it takes a team sometimes because there's logistical planning that you wouldn't even imagine. But if you mess up, you're stuck in a little village for two days. So two days out of 30, you know, that you didn't plan on. So logistics is really, really important when you're backpacking and trying to make connections that may or may not be there. And, you know, I always love the term, in Swahili, you know, in the eastern part of Africa, there's, you know, there's a term now. So is the bus coming now? Yes, the bus is coming now. Well, now can be a week or two. But if you say, is the bus coming now, now? Oh, yes, the bus is coming now, now. That means within the next three hours. OK, so there's nuances in language. Well, after one in time, Kenzenian time. Yeah, now, now versus now. So, you know, you just, I love travel because you're using your intuition. You're using your ability to improv and improvise when things don't go right. And things won't go right. And you can count on a given day, 30% of your day is going to go horribly wrong. And it's up to you to A, use your diplomacy. And B, use your intuition and your ability to, you know, make things up on the fly to put it back together again. So you generally told us about a philosophy of travel that you have and the feelings that you use as you're on these trips to really think about your life. Really, that's what I'm hearing. And I want to talk after the break about the specific trips maybe to a couple of the countries that you've been to and tell us a little bit about that and share a few photos. You got it. All right. This is Think Tech Hawaii, raising public awareness. Oh, I'm Glenn Martinez. I'm the volunteer host of the aquaponics show that we've come once a week. You know, Think Tech is important to me because it gives me an avenue to share what we do on all the amount of gardens and the other community participation in the aquaculture world and at regular agriculture also. And now for the first time, Think Tech Hawaii is participating in the online web-based fundraising campaign to raise $40,000. Give thanks to Think Tech. We'll run only during the month of November and you can help. Please donate what you can so that Think Tech Hawaii can continue to raise public awareness and promote civic engagement through free programming like mine. I've already made my donation and look forward to yours. Please send in your tax-deductible contribution by going to this website, www.thanksforthinktech.cozvox.com. On behalf of the community enriched by Think Tech Hawaii's 30-plus weekly shows, thank you. Mahalo for your generosity and we look forward to you. We are back. I am Mark Schlaufe. I am the temporary host for Jay Fidel in Think Tech Global. And Tim Apacella is my guest. And we are talking about his philosophy of travel, what it means to his life generally. And right now I want to focus on some specific places that Tim has been to in Africa. That's a continent that is our focus right now, although Tim's been all over the world. And maybe show a few photos and describe what we see in the photos and where we are. So we could get on some of the, Tim, is that good? Yeah, it's just, OK, well, this is, actually, this was the better part of this town. This is in Mozambique. And this is kind of a very typical village where you have a lot of tin-roofed homes and some partially-fatched. And so this is a very typical little village that you'll find yourself in. This is, if it's along the coastal regions of countries in Africa, you'll see that fishing is a very, very big part of their livelihood and their culture. And these are old, kind of like dows where the sail configuration is completely different than what we're accustomed to seeing on Nantucket Island. Right. I love taking pictures of people. I don't do it often because it's not recommended. You could really offend people by bringing out your camera. So my philosophy is, if it's a 10-second or five-second or less picture that could be taken and not intrusive and insulting in any way, you can get some fairly nice shots. This is also in Mozambique. Kids coming home from school, I love the uniforms that kids wear. They're very well-pressed. I'll go on the right here. It's got to do something with that shirt tail. But they're very well-pressed. They're always very immaculate when they go to school. You don't see anyone with baggy jeans. They're really prideful in how they dress and go to school. This education is very, very important. Since I'm in the transportation business, this is how a lot of people get around. And a lot of times, it's a construction lorry, or it's three people on a little moped, and off they go. Genfishing is a very big industry. And no matter what the catch is, that's putting food on someone's table. Kids will be kids. This is either before or after, or who knows, maybe even during school. But down at the fishing harbor and just being kids, having fun. I think there's a few things that bring the world together. One, they say music brings all cultures and all peoples of the world together. I have to think it is fishing. And when I saw this guy trying to rig his gear up for fishing, I said, there's a kinship with all fishermen. That's something all fishermen can relate to. And how could you be enemies with someone like that? How could you have the thought that because he's wearing some Islamic garb, that that would be a would-be terrorist? It's fishing that brings the world together. That's all I could say. This is Ahmed. We spent several nights in the middle of the Sahara desert, and he was our guy. He's the one that took us out in the Sahara, and we spent a few nights out there under the stars. And in the morning, we'd have to shake out the scorpions from our bedding. But we had a great, great time with him. And like the cowboys of the West, Ahmed would sing his camels to sleep, literally. And it was really fantastic to hear him sing, and the camels would settle down. These guys, the guy with the white scarf over his face and his headdress, he's got to be around 80. And we were traveling through the desert area, and he was a very strange character. He would take his cane and swing it in the air wildly, almost knocking out the driver. And then he said something in Arabic, and the driver just screeched to halt. And we skidded along the roadway, and they opened up the doors and turned on the music as loud as they could, and they just started dance. And their best dance, they could perform. And it wasn't for a tourist, because I was the only one there, they just had a sense that they wanted to get out and dance. And by God, that's what they did. All of these photos of people, it kind of goes back to what you said at the beginning about the common denominators or common elements of everybody. These people were, you were with these folks. You were traveling or somehow on the same street with them. What was their appearance as far as happiness or life? Again, you could see, oh, this is really a difficult question, because what makes people happy in one culture versus another? Unfortunately, sometimes I think in our culture, we're kind of material based. And so materialistic things make us happy, where you go to other countries in Africa or anywhere else in Asia or someplace else. Materialism isn't the order of the day. It's the relationships you have with your family and your friends. It's the things that are, the simple things in life that really put a smile on people's faces. And to see that and realize, well, maybe I need to incorporate that more into my life. And it changed my life. I was like a true blue capitalist American. I wanted a motorcycle, and I want that boat. That stuff over time just said, that's a depreciating asset. My travel is an appreciating asset. I only get value from that, because my life is enhanced versus a motorcycle sooner or later it's in song craigslist. And I suppose in every culture, there's different types of people in our culture, too. Some that appreciate those things, and some that think that, well, we have to make the greatest deal possible. And so I guess you saw that in Africa, too, perhaps. And you saw all different. There's rich and poor, and there's rich and poor. There's great, not so great, and taxi drivers. We're human beings. We have our faults. We have our good days. We have our bad days. And you'll run into people having their bad days, too. And you know, when you're on the road, you try not to have a bad day, because you are a diplomat. You are representing, whether you announce that you're an American. I never say I'm an American. Just don't. I mean, it's not something I go around shouting. But they know you're from somewhere, and they can guess who you are. So whether you want to be or not, you're representing where you're from. And I take it very seriously, and I try to have a certain decorum when I do travel. OK, so I want to talk about that a little bit. I mean, you're an American out there being a representative of our country, United States of America. But China's making a big push in Africa. Sure, they have extra decades. What have you seen? They've been making a big push for decades. And you know, they're saying that in our culture, we'll look at a watch. In China, they'll look at a calendar, because they're a long-term strategy culture. Thousands of years is their culture, yeah. Yeah, and so a strategy, if they're looking at the geopolitical world of Africa and how they're going to get influenced for raw resources, be it oil or whatever minerals they're looking for, I think that's a big part of it. Yeah, I think we're finite resources now for a lot of things. And I think they're playing the big, long game of a chess strategy. I saw Chinese influence back in the early 90s. And back then, it was providing humanity care, food, and things like that. Then getting in the door. Yeah, getting in the door. Then you saw Chinese engineers coming in to help them with infrastructure. So once you become ingrained on offering technology and humanity aid and engineering assistance, you become accepted in that culture. Guess what? Those are nice things. Those are nice things. Those are not bad, selfish things. I'm not bringing grenades and mortars and M16s. I'm bringing something that's going to be, the guns are a better equation of an economy. And I'd rather bring the butter than the guns, quite frankly. How are we doing in the United States? Well, I think we're in comparison to China. We've been giving aid for the late 50s, the mid 50s. We've been out there. And hopefully it's been given without anything in the expectation and return. It's the kindness. We try to help. That's what Americans try to do. I think they try to help. I think right now, we're going in because we're concerned about ISIS and them getting a toe hold in some of these countries. I think we're going in there with the military. And we're not always the best diplomats when we bring in boots and camouflage. I think they try. I think they try their hardest to be good with everyone that they're exposed with and rubbing shoulders with. But the military is not a diplomat core. They're just not. And so I worry about alienating those cultures in some of these countries as we're trying to combat ISIS and the Taliban and things like that. Now, what advice would you give to the world traveler going out and doing the same things that you do into these other cultures that we're not going to Disneyland, although that's an option? What advice do you give to those travelers? It's got to be, well, you're not in Seattle. You're not in LA because you don't want to hear someone say, well, in New York, we would do it this way. You're not. So don't be ethnocentric in your expectations and attitudes and stereotypes. Leave that at home. I mean, you're there for a reason to experience new things. Open yourself up. It's hard because there is something called culture shock. It's exposure to sounds and smells and music and food taste. And sometimes it's overwhelming and you get stressed out. So when you get stressed out, what do you resort to? Kind of what you know. Where's my McDonald's? Well, there is no McDonald's. You're not going to get one. So open yourself up and try not to be judgmental and just go with it. Go with the flow. OK. Thank you so much, Tim. And I'll look forward to your next trip and hearing more about that. Thank you. Appreciate it very much. Thank you for having me.