 That's not the scenario in your life right now is it and I'm saying that is wrong So what you're doing right now is wrong what I'm doing run by your own moral standard what you're doing right now is wrong So would you change? Yes, would you like a card? Okay, okay, okay, we'll just leave that there. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you Is that right yeah, I really yeah, oh you have a degree in farm management there. Oh, you don't So you're you're against vegan lifestyle. Oh, I think it's unsustainable So why is it unsustainable, you know, we have to feed our moral Yeah, so you know there's a 16 to 1 ratio for plants to meet yeah In the numbers you need it to make it in the numbers you need it because of large populations Yeah, it can't be done that way. So they're feeding they're feeding grain they're feeding grain to cattle and livestock Yeah, not all great. No, well, they are feeding grain to most cattle and livestock. Yeah, they feed to some Well, 99% of animals are factory farmed. Yeah on earth Yeah, so so so let me speak to him for a sec. So so 99% of animals are factory farmed, right? Yeah, so they're feeding them grain, okay And that okay. Okay. Well, what else they're feeding them the feed them alpha-alpha Okay, they're feeding them plants basically. Yes. So those plants need to be watered. Yeah, okay So how much water do they those plants need okay over the course of the plants life And then we're feeding all those plants to the animal over the course of the animals life Yeah, okay. So is that sustainable for the earth? Well, obviously sustainable because it's happening and the environments are in They're sustained sustainable and stable. Okay. Now if you turn it all over the way Yeah, you've got to kill the insects you've got to kill the animals that are eating crops if you like Okay, how are you gonna make that brother brother if we just ate the plants the crops, okay? We're eating a lot less plants and crops Then we have to feed all those plants and crops to grow animals and eat the animals Are we eating less plants if we just eat the plants directly or if we're feeding Tons and tons of grain and plants and water Brother if everyone ate plants we'd be growing a lot less plants then we have to feed animals to Listen over the course of an animal's life Force growing yet your force growing you're having to put more water in there irrigation you're going to have to put more Chemicals in place into the ground that leeches into the water. You just ain't gonna work that way We need we've got 70 billion land animals on earth right now. Okay, 70 billion 70 billion That's the UN statistics on foot for land animals that farmed animals. Okay that we're we're consuming the UN Yeah 56 to 70 billion, okay Okay, well you can do your own research on that bro. It's up there Okay, but so those animals need food and water Okay. Yeah, now if we didn't have animal agriculture saying these sentient beings that need food and water Shouldn't be there. Why do they exist? Why do they exist bro? You saying they shouldn't be there them. No, they shouldn't because we're breeding them into existence So we're forcibly breeding them into hand you come in here to protest the animals being killed But you want a wholesale decimation? Yeah animals. Yeah, I don't want animal agriculture to exist because we're forcibly Breeding them into existence. Yeah, so don't you think it's a little bit of Hypocritical to come here now these people are killing animals exactly what you want to do. Why are they killing them? They're doing them what you want to do. I don't want animals to be murdered I don't want them to be forcibly bred into existence. What will happen to them? We would exist now. We would we would stop breeding them into existence, bro What would you do with them? What would we do to them? We'd stop breeding them into existence So you put them on land and let them die on the land. No, bro. The ones that are here Do you think that we're all going to go vegan overnight the whole world one one one swoop in one swoop Do you think we're all going to go vegan? Do you think we're all gonna be half and half on caution? What's your name, bro? Hey, what's your name? No, I don't do that. Okay. Well, do you think we're all going to go vegan overnight? We won't we won't okay. What's gonna happen? What's gonna happen my friend is we're gonna have a slow gradual phase out of these industries Yeah, the animals are left over after the whole world goes vegan. They're probably only be a few Sanctuaries sanctuaries. Do you think there's gonna be 70 billion? Do you think there's gonna be 70 billion when we stop breeding them into existence? There's gonna be a gradual phase out That's how it's gonna work The phase out people are still gonna be eating them people are still gonna be Because of because not the world is do you understand the world's not gonna go vegan overnight you understand that right? It's gonna be gradual. So people are still gonna be eating animals as it phases out, right? I don't the reason there's 70 billion land animals is because we're bleeding them into existence We're forcibly breeding them so your idea because of these people your idea is to bring in two systems You're phasing one out as you're bringing another one in what's the other one eating plants eating plants The plant food already exists. I understand what I'm saying if you listen second. Yeah, if you've got the animal farming Yeah, we have the vegan farming if you like. Yeah, so there's ones going out The other ones coming in you're phasing one out. You're bringing another we've got enough plant foods now We've got enough plant agriculture now. Yes, we do. We're already eating plants with you mate You're eating plants with you mate or you just eat me You eat your meat by itself. So you've got a vested interest in these these industries, don't you? Oh, it's a vested interest. Well, you do a consumer of it. You're a consumer of meat. Okay, so would you consume dog meat? So you would so you don't think animals have moral value moral value. Yeah Well a sentient being that experiences pain and suffering and wants to live well Would you give the same moral value meant to a sentient being that eats an animal in Africa? Are you a you a lion are you? No, okay, you tell the lion is wrong. Well a lion doesn't have moral agency. Do they they can't be held account I just but they're sentient being so if you're applying to all sentient beings you cannot eat meat You must say no, no, no, no, I think sentient beings have moral value I didn't say sentient beings cannot eat meat in a survival situation like a lion This moral value is a lion's moral value not high enough to justify eating meat in Africa This is about us causing pain and suffering to innocent beings The world will the world will because people care about animals not everyone's like you and don't care about animals I do care about you care about animals But you condemn them to a slaughterhouse when you eat them. Let's look everyone slates say hunters. You care about animals Do you care about these animals? Yeah, I'll let you go here for sure. Thank you. Awesome, right? You get hunters and I would imagine that you claim say a hunter is Somebody that doesn't care about animals and slaughter some whole thing I would say a hunter takes animals lives against their will when it's unnecessary Yeah, I think all lives are taken against their will, unless you go all lives are taken against their will Death is a natural part of life. Yeah murder is not a natural part of life Raised to be eaten is taken against this will These sentient beings are raised to be eaten that doesn't change the fact that it's immoral to take their life No, I'm talking about any sentient being that their life is taken for an unnecessary reason is immoral Okay, because we don't need to eat meat biologically to survive. Okay, we are living proof of that So it's murder and rape. That's a lifestyle choice, too, but there's a victim involved. Yeah, it is Murder and rape is a crime. No killing animals Neither was slavery back in the past, but it was immoral because they were sentient beings who had moral value In this time here, hey, bro in this time here this type of animal slavery and abuse is legal That doesn't mean that those sentient beings have no moral value Well, they're not free are they? They're not free you would agree to do anything brother given a moral imperative you will they're here for you Do you think animals here to serve you do you? No, I don't believe that I think they exist for their own reason Your stomach is filled with the corpses of these innocent beings. Yes, they didn't want to die and you are eating them Just because you can doesn't mean you have to well true that's again most out of choice heart disease and Cancer are killing people. Do you know heart disease? Yeah process foods. I will really agree with you Cholesterol builds up in your arteries. You know a cholesterol comes from eating meat Where does cholesterol come from cholesterol comes from the fats that you make in your body according to what you eat You can create your own cholesterol all animals do all animals do so it's an animal flesh Yeah, so you're not going to die from your own cholesterol in your body that you create You die from eating dietary cholesterol from animals Cholesterol can never be a balanced diet built up in your arteries You say you care about animals, okay, okay, so you do care what happens to them in there when they get stabbed in the throat So they get stunned okay, and then they get hung up and then they get stabbed in the artery to drain them out They're blood okay, so we do say that they fill in the pain Do you think electric stunned would would and a stab in your throat? Okay, would it cause you harm? Would it cause you harm well it's meant to cause harm isn't it? Okay, so do you think it's it's moral to cause harm to innocent beings for an unnecessary reason? I think that anybody who's doing that job in there has a responsibility if they're going to kill an animal I think they have to do it efficiently okay, there's least harm to the animals feelings if you like Bro, taking their life against their will Do you think that's moral? When you don't need to you know you don't need to meet us. Well, you don't need to eat meat to survive Do you well once again? It's a choice isn't it people choose to eat it? That's not doesn't make it moral just because you can do something. It doesn't make it moral to try to outlaw It doesn't why because if you could say the same thing about outlawing any immoral act Oh, it's not moral to outlaw murder and rape and kicking dogs basically what you're saying, isn't it? Do you think animal cruelty is immoral? Yes, okay So do you think it's cruel to take a lie at the life of an animal against their will? Oh, that's it. No, you don't think that's cruel No, even though they don't want to die Apply the same logic to yourself would it be cool to take your life against your will if you can do it Do you think you would have be immoral? I think it would I wouldn't I would defend you if someone tried to attack you Well, I would defend you if someone tried to take your life I'd defend you because you're a sentient being you don't deserve that attacks Terrorists in Syria terrorists aren't innocent pigs are innocent. How do you know they have done nothing wrong to you? Brother pigs have done nothing wrong to you Just a second, if you go 30 meters down there and jump over the fence, you'll be bitten Bro, the pig that's been living there for 10 years, right? Barney? You talking about Barney? Barney don't bite no one, mate Have you ever seen him bite? He might nibble you on the finger, bro Alright, so in here we've got Barney the pig and the guy I was debating with before said if you jumped the fence Barney could bite you wouldn't possibly kill you So let's go see how dangerous Barney really is Vegan food, vegan food Vegan food? Maybe they had to live with faith You're not going to hurt me, are you mate? So gentle, so much for Barney being a dangerous That's what I mean, these animals, they don't hurt anyone Hello Barney You're causing more harm to pigs I'm sorry Yeah, you are but you're paying for their death You're paying for their murder You're part of a system It's called supply and demand, without your money these places don't exist, bro Exactly And then who would provide meat for the people that want it? I could make your plant-based meat out of proteins from rice and beans and legumes So you're telling me I'm not going to eat vegetables? No, you can't really eat vegetables Have you ever seen a vegan burger, bro? I have, yeah They're delicious No, not for me Well, you've eaten one in your life, I've eaten about 30 Okay, you can get bad ones and good ones I applaud your freedom to do it Brother, there's pizza, pasta, rice, ice cream, we've got everything vegan now There's no reason to do this to animals and you agree you care about animals There's no difference between these animals in here and the pets that you own I agree with monsters, I agree with people that want to eat meats Do you agree with someone kicking a dog to death for no reason? I think the last part of your question qualified it for no reason Why would you do that? It's an unnecessary reason why we're killing pigs You agree with that? Can you be healthy as a vegan? I'm not a vegan, I'm not qualified to give you the answer on that Can you be healthy? I've read research, I don't know If you found research that said you can be healthy and thrive as a vegan Would you agree that this is even more unnecessary? No, no Because then it comes onto choice where you're trying to force a society Personal choice with a victim involved? Personal choice with a victim, yes There's a victim involved? Okay, so the victim doesn't matter in your choice? It factors in it, if it was somewhere like Malaysia where I've been Hey, no, no, no I wouldn't advise a chicken Hey, right here Right here in the UK No, I don't have a problem with that to be fair You don't have a problem with an innocent being having their life taken For an unnecessary reason when you have alternatives No, well, it's unnecessary to you It's not unnecessary to people How is it necessary for you? I'm not saying it's unnecessary Is it vital for your survival? It's necessary if somebody wants to buy it No, I'm talking about you Is it necessary for you to eat animals? If I want to eat a pig, which I very rarely do to be fair I'm not Kian Paul But if I wanted to eat it I would have a right to buy it here Just because you have a right to do something doesn't make it moral Okay You had a right to own a human slave 200 years ago You had a right to own a human slave 200 years ago, yeah? That was your right, legal right Okay, does that make it moral? Just because you have a right to do that Are we talking of the times or are we talking over the times? I'm just applying Your logic Morality changes No, it doesn't Morality does change Okay, so murder has always been murder, yeah? Has that changed over time? It wasn't murder, was it? It wasn't Okay, see There was no crime or murder Okay, but was it still a moral? Just because it was legal? We're talking about... You're talking about legality and morality Not what's legal Just because it's legal doesn't make it moral Yeah, but it makes it defensible So what? It doesn't make it moral That's what we're talking about, morality Whether innocent beings like this Moral, have moral value They have moral value I still can't get over that definition, moral value You agree that animals suffer and feel pain, yeah? Of course they do They do? So they have moral value Where's the value attached? I don't see it Well, they are sentient, just like you are Where's the value in you? Where's the value in me? Where's the value in you? I can't attach your value to myself You don't? No So you don't have moral value? So we shouldn't treat you with respect Do you agree we should treat other beings with respect? You can try and treat me with disrespect, that'd be fine Well, I respect all beings, okay? Including you, okay? I respect all beings, okay? Once again, you've made a moral choice, that's great for you Yeah, and you do too I believe you're a good person I do, because you care about... You make me that wrong No, I do Whatever you say, I believe you're a good person Because you care about animals, you just said it Okay, but your actions don't reflect that Okay? That's the thing you see If you're saying that civilised life They have to take it to a point where They value animals, they value this You're in danger of too many people in the world That aren't worthy of respect You can't do that Brother, we've just established We could feed the world We could feed 10 billion people with the food That we have right now We're feeding it to animals Unless you can say to me, right If you read this research This tells us we could feed everybody Now at this moment If we had to We could start doing it You can't, the infrastructure isn't in place 50% of the grain in the US US is one of the biggest countries The 300 million people there 50% of their grain Genetically modified food is acceptable as well 50% of their grain has been fed to Animals in animal agriculture There's a lot of food There's a lot of plant agriculture going on We're fine without eating animals I can't see it Because there's so many countries Heavily populated that don't have that infrastructure You haven't even done the research yourself So how can you not see something You haven't even looked into, bro? Well, I can see what is Is that true? Is that true of what I just said? You haven't looked into it? I have a degree in it You haven't looked into vegan lifestyle You don't even know how much grain We're feeding to animals Well, I know that we feed other things As well as grain to animals Yeah, they're grass fed And then they're grain fed At the last few weeks to fatten them up So it doesn't change the fact that You agree that animals Well, you care about animals You say that You say that If I say that, I say it I purposely won't go out and kick an animal But I might go and eat another one So I'm not applying the same models In your case Yeah, so by you eating animals You're hurting them Okay? No, they're already dead They're not being hurt well Yeah, but they're only dead Because you want to buy them Eat their bodies They're dead because somebody sees A value in them in another way Maybe in a moral value They want to sell the animal They want to commodify an animal body Exactly, right So commodifying sentient beings Is okay in your eyes Well, somebody has to do it So making money off the suffering And death of innocent beings Is okay in your eyes Are they suffering? Do you think they're not suffering in there? No Do you think they're not suffering When they're getting their blood drained I've seen animals being slaughtered Have you been in there? You've seen them get stabbed in their throat? For starters, you didn't even know That animals got stabbed in their throat I know they have to release the blood I know they have to do that All animals get stabbed in their throat Every single animal No animal doesn't get stabbed in their throat So what my question was Is are these animals feeling that at that time? Does that change the fact That they're getting stabbed in their throat? If I stabbed you in the throat I don't want to be offensive to you But if someone stabs you in their throat Whether you felt it or not That has caused you harm See, you understand? Pain is not pain and suffering If that animal's been stunned I wouldn't say it was sentient at that point, would you? It was sentient up to the point Of being knocked unconscious Would you sooner than cut themselves Would your defence apply in any other context Like, oh, she wasn't sentient After I stunned her, your honour So the crime is just devoid Oh, now we're going into a legality of it No, no, no, no It's indefensible If you're going to kill the animal, it's going to die Okay We've got to kill it First of all, why are you killing it? They're going to eat it, aren't they? But it's unnecessary, we've established that You don't need to eat animals to survive You can go back to that standpoint What I was trying to establish was If that animal is going to be killed What's the most efficient way Of doing it, causing the least harm to the animal? I would say that's what they're practicing There's no choice we have, though, bro We don't just have what's the least Amount of harm we can cause to an animal We don't have to do this It's not really a choice We've got another choice I'm saying that we've got another choice Leave the animals alone Eat plants Adopting is even... You don't think it's possible? We are living proof This is one of the fastest growing movements on earth We are living proof you can do this You're living proof in very small numbers No, we're not There's millions of us now, brother There are vegan options everywhere In Africa In Africa I don't know any vegans in Africa But in the western country Where we have the freedom of information Where this is spreading And people are waking up And they can see what's going on inside of these places People don't want to contribute to it, bro People do not want to contribute To unnecessary suffering and death of animals I would say it's more like They would sooner see a packet of meat In a freezer rather than knowing the reality Bro And that's where society itself goes wrong They move away from the reality Exactly Animals If they see what was going on in here They wouldn't want to consume it Like, do you have a family? Do you have a wife? Do you have a wife and children and stuff like that? If they see what happened in here They wouldn't want to eat it, okay? Because you yourself know that most human beings Compassionate, logical, rational human beings Care for animals They don't want to see animals get stabbed to death Okay? Children I think the reality of it, yeah Yeah, does that tell you something That we shouldn't be doing it? Well, no If your children can't see what happens in here Without being sick and being scared There's just an indication that we shouldn't be doing this to them Think about it, brother I know what you're saying That's exactly where you're coming from But once again, it's a choice So is raping a woman? Well, I've never raped a pig All pigs get raped All pigs get raped They do They're artificially inseminated, forcibly impregnated And their piglets get taken away from them Okay? You know about all that? I know about artificial insemination That's why there's 70 billion land animals on Earth right now Because we're artificially forcibly impregnating them To feed people that otherwise wouldn't get their protein So I'm gonna have to end this with you, bro It's been an interesting debate with you, bro But you say you care about animals Your actions aren't consistent with that Okay? Well, I won't be judged by somebody else I'm not judging you Four years ago, I was eating animals probably more than you were Okay? I've just woken up and decided that it's unnecessary to cause harm to them They've done nothing wrong to us They're six months old They're six months old when they're getting stabbed in the throat Okay? They're like puppy dogs Okay? They're innocent They've done nothing wrong to us Well, all animals are innocent, aren't they? Exactly Exactly So we're doing this to innocent beings Okay? Innocent beings They've done nothing wrong to you I don't think they're being killed if they're having done something wrong If they're being killed For our greed? No People don't... For taste pleasure? Because you like the taste of animals? Protein, basically For protein We can get protein from plants And you know that, come on mate You've done research I understand that Protein, all protein comes from plants All protein Originally comes from plants Originally comes from plants Because animals that eat it Turn it into what they... Exactly You're filtering your nutrients through an animal That's right That suffered and died Okay? Even if they didn't suffer, they got caused harm They've been killed They've been murdered Killing against... Murder is a legal term Okay? Yeah, they've been killed Killed against their will Yeah, I've got all that Okay? Okay? So you don't have to do it Well, then again To convince me You'd have to show me some real serious research on that Happy to do that, mate On two points I'll give you a card Give me the card Okay, this stuff got some... This is some stuff on nutrition facts here Yeah Okay, this is what the health This is a... These are good films They've got all your science All the research linked in there for you All your references there, yeah This is calf conspiracy All your references are on there So everything you need to know About the environment About water use About how much food we're feeding these animals About how unsustainable it actually is Isn't water used for various vegetables? I'll let you do your own research on that, mate Okay, you can find out for yourself On the back, if you want to do a little challenge There's a vegan challenge on the back Follow my link And give it a go I don't think you're going to die of protein deficiency For showing compassion to animals Right, it's actually giving me a pillion Thanks brother Take care Wow