 this session. Today we're going to be talking about the SME Climate Hub and supporting SMEs to decarbonise. My name is Beverly Cornaby. I'm from the Cambridge Institute for Sustainability Leadership. I'm the policy lead for the UK Corporate Leaders Group and also I chair something called the UK Business Group Alliance for Net Zero. Whilst much of the work that we do is with larger organisations and that is where actually you know there is a big focus because the size of the emissions that they need to manage and need to reduce at the same time we see engaging SMEs as really important. Globally they form 90% of businesses and even within the UK I mean it's much higher than that it's actually 99.9%. We support businesses and start-ups because we see that they can bring new ideas, technologies and new ways of thinking. At CISL we have something called the Canopy Incubator that we are about to be opening at a building we are refurbishing in Cambridge. This is going to be an opportunity for us to host start-ups and small businesses and to come up with innovative new ways of working together. Now today we're going to have a number of different speakers and I'm delighted that first of all I'm going to welcome Andrew Griffith who is the UK Net Zero champion who has been working tirelessly this year to really engage SMEs within the UK. Thank you Andrew. Well thank you very much Beverly for that super kind introduction and to the Cambridge Institute for Sustainable Leadership who not just for hosting today but who've been an invaluable partner on the journey so it's really wonderful to be here. As Beverly said supporting smaller medium-sized businesses on this net zero journey is of utmost importance and although my role spans businesses of every shape and size in the United Kingdom exactly as Bev said the vast majority by number are small businesses and so from the get-go it was incredibly important to me that everything we did could speak to small businesses from the very smallest to the very largest and that's not always how government thinks when people do campaigns so we launched this in 2021 I mean really it's been initiative over the last 12 months and building on the fantastic product that was already the ICC's SME climate hub but the government decided as part of building a crescendo of activity from business and you'll notice that businesses present at this climate summit more than ever before because mobilising private sector action the capability to solve problems and the vast tracts of international capital was something that the government and the prime minister wanted at the heart of our agenda. So we launched the together for our planet business climate leaders campaign we did that on the back of the SME climate hub which is a product that we think is great what I call age appropriate for small businesses to cut through some of the complexity to recognise the fact that for small businesses the biggest opportunity cost is their time and you're competing for very thin slices of time between doing the staff rotor and the tax return and ordering your stock for the following week and it was designed as I say for the very smallest businesses a lot of which are sole sole proprietor businesses so it really did have to be on that basis. I was supported by the I'm going to tell little bits of stories so people can learn from what worked and by all means ask what didn't work but I had fantastic support from the Department of Business Enterprise Innovation and Skills I'll get it wrong keep changing its name industrial strategy but most importantly I had support from the department for business I got Sam Lux here today and they've been great providing full-time resources leveraging those constant relationships with business and I always said when we got it right in every single interaction between government civil service ministers and businesses and business federations this would be one of the key attributes and the key asks of that and I think we broadly managed to get that right as a result although it built built from a small start as of today nearly 2100 UK businesses have signed up to the race to zero the vast majority of them by number being those small medium enterprises another thing we did and I think some of them are here at today as well and if they're not I'd still give a big shout out for them is put together a task force a task force of large businesses remember they have so much more of the capability and discretion resources but large businesses who interact daily with small businesses so again to give you examples these were people like telecommunications companies the tax authorities as it happens the Nat West Bank who are a co-sponsor and Scottish Power so an Intuit so if you think about what we were trying to do was give a nice warm huggy surround so that all of the big enterprises that a small business would habitually do business with was also able to project the same message and offer the same level of support so Intuit built online tools for example Nat West promoted the campaign in their messaging on their small business hub and indeed all of our partners were fantastic so we hijacked those resources BT projected the campaign imagery on top of one of their telecom towers in the heart of London and provided us really great advertising reach that we wouldn't otherwise have been able to acquire and remember small businesses are one of the hardest markets to target you know very very time rich time poor sorry we also worked with every and I'm very proud of this we work with every business federation in the UK again another design principle if you're a small business there is a little bit of a blizzard of initiatives there's lots of kite marks lots of things that you can sign up to one of the objectives of using the SME climate hub is its unimpeachable credentials backed by Cambridge sustainable science but also backed by things like the science based targets initiative the United Nations race to zero campaign so what we were trying to do is establish a first among equals kite mark initiative not to detract from any of the other good things that people are doing but to say to businesses to simplify if there's one thing you do this is the thing this is the way you get on that journey and make that brilliantly easy to do and we were we benefited from that support from all of the business organisations sometimes when they had their own initiatives as well but those would run alongside we then took this out on the road and it's still out on the road on buses wending their way up to Glasgow that will arrive next week but we also hosted because of the pandemic we hosted virtual geographic summits where we would we called them your business journey to net zero they were seminars so they were tackling one of the biggest barriers in fact the only barrier I think because there's good awareness think about the normal journey there's good awareness of this issue there's a real desire to act small businesses in particular are parents and grandparents they have deep relationships of trust and they're at the heart of their place-based communities so there's clear desire to act as well but where so often things fall down and all of our survey data tells us this is knowing what to do the intimidation of knowing what is the right first step out of all of the others and so these local engagement seminars again organised with the help of the business department were designed to be a pathway for small businesses to educate themselves and they were delivered through the growth hubs which is a typical go to place if you're a small business looking for help on a number of other issues that you'd go to the growth hub so that's where we've got to the journey is by no means finished indeed I really think we're just at the start and as we've observed at this fantastic COP which is already proving very successful by any measure once we fold up these wonderful pavilions turned off these rather hot lights put away the chairs it is the problem-solving capacity of business that we need to deploy over the coming decades hopefully quicker if you're a small business because you have that brilliant ability to act really fast you can make decisions in the morning and you can execute them in the afternoon which is not a luxury most big businesses have have so we are at the start of a journey but we're also at the end of a different journey the UK has been I think disproportionately successful in what we've done to date but my call to everybody here and we would love to help you we've got some lessons learned and we would love to share those is I would like to see now the SME climate hub really go large really go global encompass the literally hundreds of millions of small enterprises across our planet we only have one atmosphere we all have to share that so it's in all of our interests that we could really promulgate this campaign and really make it as successful as it can be but thank you to those of you here who've been a big part of that journey getting us to where we are and I look forward to hearing from the panel some ideas as to how we go forward thank you very much indeed fantastic thank you very much Andrew and I think that's a really good way to set the tone for this session and actually you mentioned that west and we will have somebody from that west on the panel Oliver and also you mentioned Scottish power and we'll actually be hearing from the parent company Ibidrola in relation to the work that they're doing in Spain so actually thinking about how is this going global and what is happening in different countries first though I'm going to introduce Julio Beruti who is from BSR he's the director of BSR to talk about the SME climate hub and some of the tools that are actually being developed to support SMEs in decarbonising their businesses Julio hi everybody and hope you can hear me okay first of all it's a pleasure to be here my name is Julio Beruti I'm a director with BSR in the climate team so for those of you are not familiar with BSR that's possible we are a global non-profit organisation that works with a network of around 300 companies with the mission of building a just and sustainable world we are a global organisation and work with businesses mainly large companies but we'll hear today about SME climate hub as well through consulting research and cross sector collaboration we are a member of the women business coalition whom we thank very much for being here today as well and as you know or you might know women business is one of the key partners of the SME climate hub together with the exponential roadmap initiative the international chamber of commerce and the race to zero the initiative provides small and medium businesses so defined as the businesses with less than 500 employees a one-stop shop to make a climate commitment and take action with tools and resources they can use to mitigate their environmental impact and build resilient businesses for the future so as a first step in particular the SMEs can take the SME climate commitment and pledge to half a mission before 2030 and strive to achieve net zero mission before 2050 a set of tools and resources has then been made available to them currently SMEs can access a set of publicly available resources that guide them through measurement gg reduction and strategy setting and the hub will be expanded in time to provide more and more support with tailor tools and incentives that SMEs can leverage to take action and we talked about barriers that SMEs face and one of the key barriers that SMEs face is knowledge is lack of knowledge this is consistently reported through geographies and supply chains and in many surveys that exist about SMEs in the recent survey that women business run through the SMEs that took the climate commitment showed that 63% of the respondents noted the skills and knowledge are a primary better to action and so to bridge this gap I'm very pleased to talk about a new tool which is called climate fit net zero training for SMEs that we at BSR together with the team at the Cambridge Institute for Sustainability Leadership and in partnership with the women business coalition are launching later this week it is a practical free online training that help SMEs reduce the carbon emissions and join the collective race to net zero the approach that we took is to take the angle of business resilience so how can climate be a lever of business resilience for companies like SMEs and so we achieved these by focusing on seven key modules that take SMEs through a journey on governance and strategy operations that focuses on renewable energy energy efficiency fleet for example supply chain on how can you prioritize among your suppliers and take action to reduce your scope three emission even if you are a small business design because we all know about the importance of designing for net zero from the start finance with an idea of making the financial business case for the carbonisation people and community because employees and the communities around the SME can be levers and agents of change really and net zero and storytelling because of the importance for all companies including SMEs to tell their sustainability story while they get there. The modules take 30 minutes to complete the self-paced and enable people to learn in their own way in their own time this is important considering that SMEs have limited time and limited capacity and we want to meet everybody where they are and so completing the course will provide the SMEs that take it with practical skills knowledge and the confidence to start reducing emissions and become part of a global team of SMEs taking action importantly also for the willingness that Mr Griffith talked about about making the hub international the course will be available in English as a start but we are already working on a Spanish translation as well which will come before I turn to Beth for the follow-up I wanted to touch on another aspect which is a key barrier for the carbonisation of SMEs which is access to capital the same survey that I cited before found that the second and third reason for SMEs not to take climate action are funding and lacking demand signals this is not surprising and so to tackle that in a two-year program we also are pondering with CISL and the team within the banking environment initiative to explore financial incentives that SMEs can leverage to accelerate the carbonisation. In 2021 we started looking at the major barriers to unlock for SMEs to take climate action we research financial incentives looking at supply chain finance mechanisms and financial loans linked to sustainability that some banks and some buyers are working on to serve their suppliers or the SME customers in a few days we will be releasing some initial findings about how SMEs can use these findings and leverage them in the conversation with buyers with banks with governments to access that funding in a better way and the work will continue and I'll hope to share more findings next next time we talk about how SMEs corporates and banks can work together to the carbonise so thank you very much thank you very much Julio now a session about SMEs wouldn't be right without having the voice of SMEs here we decided that the best way to do this was to actually go to some of those within our immediate network and we did an interview with them in advance of COP which was recorded with our CEO Claire Shine I'm therefore now going to we're going to play a video which as some of that both what they're doing is a business but also the challenges that they are facing which we'll then kind of explore through the discussion following thank you hello so I'm going to ask the first question to Rosalie reclover Ros as an SME why do you feel it's important to reduce your carbon emissions hello Claire thanks so much I'm Rosalie from Thermulon and we're a startup working on sustainable insulation materials for buildings that can keep them energy efficient without compromising on fire safety and as an SME and specially startups like ours we have the benefit quite often the benefit of a clean slate and this rings true especially for physical products where up to 80 percent of the carbon footprint of a product or a manufacturing process gets locked in at design stage and SMEs start-up smaller companies we often have the benefit of at least partially clean slate where we can design in sustainable building practices okay let me bring in Frankie Phillips now Frankie in sustainable fashion how about how does it work for your SME well I'm Frankie and I run the manufacturing hub the responsible manufacturing hub the rubbish fashion company and we basically produce clothing in ways which we don't compromise monitor everything um and yes I'm a startup for small business um but I actually think that smaller businesses have a much bigger impact than than people think um for my own business um we produce for large companies so actually the impact we have is actually pretty big um so I mean it's so important for us to reduce our carbon emissions um and with that we actually reduce other companies because obviously we produce for them and it's we do all of that kind of low impact work make it easier for them um and you know I'm a big believer that if we if we start with low impact way of working you know it built right into our you know in our DNA right the start then it's so much easier um to keep that same focus as we as we grow and scale up so Frankie what steps have you taken already and how have you been supported on this journey I mean everything we do is is carbon emission focused I mean down to the super fine details we work really closely with our supply chain from fabric mill logistics to monitoring our you know to monitor our carbon footprint and you know I've got a big old like you know spreadsheet that's huge taking over a whole wall of like every single gone way it's come from how it's been how it's been processed and we work really closely with our supply chains all over um and you know I mean we don't know where we're starting from um when it comes to how our clothing will make like how can we possibly improve it um most of the brands and retails that I've worked with have no idea where their garments are even sewn together let alone where their cotton was grown um I'd say the biggest support um was our you know our supply chain partners I mean they've been incredible and it's you know especially over the last two years you know we've supported each other and they've it's working with them has meant that I've been able to work on the ideas and we've been able to support them as well and it's yeah I think it's it's a huge having that partnership and that trust within your your supply chain is so important so Rosalie um how have you been supported and what have been the main challenges you're facing in decarbonising your business so uh with our uh material we're working uh with a physical product to tackle the physical challenge of climate change and building efficiency and now there's actually a really big drive from customers who demand change and and there's a huge demand for sustainable products but for rolling of physical products there's always you know longer time periods and it requires uh you know mission driven patient uh capital mission driven customers and a stable policy environment and Frankie what do you have what have been your main challenges you're facing um okay it's a tricky one um but I'd say it's a mixture of um industry pushback and lack of funds I mean trying to explain to a brand or a retailer that I can't make that order because I just don't believe that it's ethical um it's hard conversations to have and I mean I've turned down business because I I can't accept prices that low because it well it becomes exploitation to the workers and trying to explain that to the retailers is difficult um but I can't compromise um and you know try and explain that to our shareholders that's that's the tricky one um I mean obviously reducing our impact is possible we know how to do it we know exactly what needs to be done um but it's it takes me longer because I haven't had the funds to be able to push forward quick enough I mean it's taken me 24 months to get a new fibre in the market um because we had to fund it ourselves and and if I'd had that investment that would have been halved easily um but we did it you know regardless and your new new range launched them new fibres being we're putting out to out in the market um and with that you know we put our all synthetic chemicals we reduce our water by 90% and our energy grade 75 which is which is huge um and there's obviously more to more to come and what support do you think SMEs need to help them really be carbonized um and I'd say more options with uh for funding without any barriers and hurdles to jump over um being listened to in bigger rooms like this one um I feel like many startups are full of people who really do know what they're talking about um and I really do believe that doing good is good business building business which doesn't take responsibility for its actions environmentally and ethically just simply shouldn't be in business at all um and a lot of the startups now are being built on on a completely different way that they were before they're built on being ethically focused and it's just so important to to support that right and Rosalie a last question for you what advice would you give to other SMEs who are considering taking action to reduce their footprint and what opportunities could this open up so I would say make concrete plans for really really bold action and the biggest advice I can give is just none of us can do it alone uh just look for a broader network of other small businesses startups industry associations innovation hubs whatever there may be uh around your industry cluster around your geographical cluster because the collective knowledge is huge you know whatever lessons I may have learned Frankie may have learned I want to share that to um to save someone else time in in you know maybe not having to repeat similar mistakes and these opportunities are out there and they come with everything it may come with you know tips and tricks on how to find funding on how to find sustainable supply chains how to serve customers better in a sustainable way so that overall we can make our businesses better we can make the world around us better while serving our customers our shareholders and our broader stakeholder communities that is a great call to action for both of you thank you Frankie thank you Rosalie hi echo that thanks to Rosalie and Frankie now I'd welcome our panelists to come and join us and I'm going to invite you each in turn to introduce yourselves and just in the context of how you are supporting SMEs so I think we're still at the end of work this way so Julian would you like to go first well good afternoon everyone my name is Julian Hunt and I head up public fairs communications sustainability for Coca-Cola Euro Pacific partners here in Great Britain and for us as we think about how we deliver our net zero strategy it is all about the partnerships we've got to forge with suppliers I mean essentially 90% of the reductions we've got to make I've got to come through scope three so it is the working closely with suppliers we're focusing to be fair on our top 100 strategic suppliers because they'll make the biggest difference but we're encouraging all of our suppliers to really embrace some of the key things using renewable energy setting targets that are science-based and reporting on their carbon emissions and making it part of our procurement conversations but in that spirit of collaboration and also picking up on that video we've set up a little business within our business called ccp ventures and their remit is absolutely just to pick up on some of the themes to provide some of that patient capital to new startups that are delivering really interesting innovations in things like new package free technologies for beverages or new recycling technologies so exciting things are happening I think and we've got ways of trying to engage and tap into some of that entrepreneurial spirit fantastic thank you Peter well good afternoon everybody I've got two hats on I'm a co-chair of the corporate leaders group with Colin Mathews from EDF I represent Anglian water so water and energy sort of as co-chairs of the corporate leaders group and quite an interesting interplay between those things which we might touch on a little bit later as was said earlier corporate leaders groups will be very keen to get smaller companies involved and we had our first SME join us in this last year which is which is great because that's actually part of the part of the drive that we're pushing forward on but just think about anglian water in terms of how have we helped SMEs over the years I suppose with clarity about what we're trying to achieve as a business and we set an ambition over 12 years ago to for example halve our embodied or capital carbon in absolutely everything we build and we set a very clear ambition and that enabled our supply chain to think about that and engage with it and guess what the today we're at 61% against that ambition that we set in so 2010 so we're 61% less capital carbon how's that come about well it hasn't come about as a result of things I've come up with it's come about as a result of innovation and collaboration and it's come from SMEs it's come from great ideas and great thinking but it's come as a result of having that stable platform of saying this is what we're trying to achieve as a business how can you help the other part to it though has been setting up some innovation platforms to actually make it easy so we set up something called our innovation shop window a geographical area where we encourage companies to come in and try some of their products and services on that particular journey and we provided that I think Andrew referred to it as warm and cuddly that warm and cuddly feeling for an SME to come and work with us and try and sometimes fail as well and come back and try again so absolute clarity about what we're trying to achieve saying you come in and play on this pitch and actually we're going to help you to be successful and then that will give you the ability to access other markets outside of just our geographic area and outside of this country and outside just the water markets and the other bit the sort of build on that this sort of approach to innovation that we started off that's now translated across the whole of the water industry so all water companies have now committed to net zero by 2030 so we've got that common ask across the water industry so SMEs know if they've got products and services that are going to contribute to that there's that very clear commitment and not only a commitment a visible roadmap so if you go on water UK's website you will see the path to net zero you'll see the industry commitment you'll see the sorts of things that we're interested in whether it be about energy efficiency or whether it be about renewables you'll see the journey and if there's an SME that gives you something to play into and the last piece is alignment between the industry and its regulator so there's an innovation fund some 200 million pounds a lot of that money is being allocated into innovations that SMEs are actually driving and the water industry is set up if you like an incubator called spring which is essentially how do we help SMEs to come in and play on that turf not just for anglion water but across the whole of the water industry and that has really ticked up and done incredibly well got loads and loads of projects focused on our ambition to get net zero coming out of that so just some examples brilliant thank you Peter Oliver thanks very much so hi i'm ollie hoblin ahead of strategy at that west i'll make a couple of comments firstly on our supply chain we came out with a new supply chain charter in the beginning of 2020 and the reason that we did that is because we wanted our supply chain to become more sustainable not just in terms of reducing carbon emissions but also in terms of making sure that our suppliers are treating their workforces appropriately paying the living wage and so on we also partnered with a group called eco vardis who help us measure whether our supply chain is actually sustainable so there are some also some really simple things you need to do for SMEs so you need to improve the payment terms so what we did during COVID is we said rather than the typical 60 day payment we're going to do 30 days for SMEs anyone less than 50 employees and we've kept that going forward so i think you need to it climate super important but it's broader than that to make sure that your supply chain is sustainable so that's the first comment i'll make the second comment i'll make you know listening to to frankie and rosalie you know a huge part of helping SMEs decarbonise is is financing and that's where our biggest role and our biggest influence is um and you said that you know in the uk the number of businesses it's you know in excess of 99 percent but even on kind of output measures it's still huge you know it's it's 50 percent of turnover it's 60 percent of employment it's 30 percent of our emissions and so the reason that we came up with um you know a very large number of 100 billion from now until 2025 in terms of sustainable funding and financing is because there is demand there so we set ourselves a target two years ago to get 20 billion of sustainable funding and financing and we met that within 18 months so we're here to say you know we want to supply that finance and i'll just make another point which is the easiest way to halve the emissions that we finance would be to stop doing half the business and that's clearly impossible and it's never going to work but the reason that we have these big numbers is because we think the demand is there but let's get very very specific you know in our report that we just published on the springboard for sustainable recovery there's a little business called Cooper King Distillery and it makes net zero gin what does that actually mean well it all of its electricity is from renewables and then for every bottle it produces it plants two trees that means you buy net zero gin on the shelf turnover went up by 22 percent in six months so by reducing your carbon footprint as Frankie says you can become more sustainable more resilient and you can grow your business and i think the one thing i'll leave you with before i pass over to Gonzalo is this is a huge growth opportunity as well as a resilience opportunity fantastic thank you Gonzalo okay good afternoon to everyone i'm also wearing two hats i'm vice president of the spanish green growth group that is an alliance of 60 firms big and small defending ambitious climate objectives and the opportunities that can arise in this area and second i'm director of climate change of iberdrola group so Scottish power is in the iberdrola group and on this respect we are supporting we are this fantastic cop so as the spanish green growth group we are convinced that the smaller medium enterprises can play must play a key role in decarbonizing so in this group we have pioneered SMEs you know that shows the the road to other firms but also we have big firms like iberdrola ferrobiart telefonica in different sectors that can play a big role mobilizing their supply chain so we are doing a lot of things in the spanish green growth group we have collaborative projects you know we are supporting in finance for instance we are helping these firms to get advantage of the recovery fund programs of the european union and and and what thinks is important we are we have also we really support alliances that's why we are members of the corpoli this group we think is the most powerful alliance in europe and and we and two weeks ago two weeks ago we supported the launching in spain of the women business SME climate action hub so we are convinced it was launched it's very important with the support of the spanish government and we are convinced that it will play a key role to mobilize action in small and medium enterprises i want to say something there are a lot of opportunities but the competition the global competition to take these opportunities is really strong because this sector is moving really really fast so our view is that you have to be proactive and you have to be very fast to take the opportunities otherwise you can put your firm in risk so it's opportunities but also risk and as iberdrola and i will end we are a big firm we are also doing a lot to mobilize our supply chain we have established a target to have at least 70 percent of our main suppliers we started with the main suppliers to sustainable practice focusing on on climate change and climate change is one of the of the specific areas of focus on this on this respect we are collecting info of suppliers climate policies target and procedures and we are working with them in uh improving their plans thank you brilliant thank you so you've all spoken about ways in which you're engaging SMEs and some of the opportunities there i want to go back to the video and frankie and rosalie mentioned some of the challenges that they're facing obviously with their customers their suppliers and you know both ways of the supply chain so i just wondered whether some of you could actually you know give some reflections on that in terms of the challenges you're seeing SMEs facing either within your sector or you know in terms of your direct supply chains or value chains if you think to you know your customers as well so julien shall i jump in i mean we um we're looking at this in the value chain perspective so it is indeed people who supply us but also the people that we supply and if i tell you there is something like 280 000 outlets that will sell soft drinks here in great britain not all of them are the big uh the big companies the big retailers that you'll be very familiar with most are independent outlets and we did a bit of a survey of some of them in the hospitality sector at the beginning of the year and about 500 shared their views and you know no surprise three quarters put climate change as the biggest issue that our industry needed to address but actually about half said they were really struggling to make sense of what net zero meant and picking up on some of the points mentioned earlier you know really understanding the practical implications of all of that and there were lots of barriers somewhere you know i've just got the data here but 72 percent were worried about the cost 41 percent said they had no idea really what even net zero meant for their business and then 43 percent said you know they needed help to measure emissions so you know some very common themes i think that come through i mean our solution here is we joined forces with pernoreca with sustainable restaurants association uh and net zero now to develop a new initiative specifically for uh owner operators in the hospitality sector um to give them practical advice practical guidance and also a standard that will help them move towards certification because one thing i think a lot of the outlets there and it's about two ollie's point on opportunity is they recognize if they can communicate to their consumers what they're doing through some form of certification that will give them a bit of a competitive advantage as well so very excited to be launching that here in Glasgow tomorrow fantastic and i mean frankie specifically mentioned some of the challenges around costs so i'm going to come to you ollie to actually kind of you mentioned like some of the financial support that is needed and just to kind of go a bit more in depth on that in terms of actually some of the challenges that SMEs are facing and how you're supporting them yeah well i think you know what SMEs and and frankie and rosalie are they're not unique but certainly if you look at the six million SMEs in the uk um as julian has said most of them won't know what net zero actually means but most of them won't know how to measure the carbon footprint of their business so i think it it starts with with measurement which i think is why the tool julio that you're launching is so important it's understanding you know how many tons of carbon does my business emit and what does that mean for me how does it help me if i reduce it does it make my business more valuable does it make it cheaper to run well hopefully both um but SMEs come in all different shapes and sizes and so i think you know SMEs need to start with some questions which is you know do i use fossil fuels in my supply chain do i own the buildings that i'm running do i use vehicles and depending on you know the answer to those questions there will then be you know targeted interventions that they can make you know there are some really obvious ones like we think the biggest opportunity is actually retrofitting of commercial and residential businesses and buildings in the uk um and so us providing finance for example to do that will be super important equally if an SME is a uses a lot of motorized transport then we need to help give them financing on whether it's a small medium or large ev fleet so there's a huge number of things that we can do to provide finance but it's very dependent upon how big the business is and how and how their businesses run but but to go back to julio's point and until we can actually measure it then we can only then start to reduce it and help them realize the opportunities pizza do you want to come in on that yeah definitely i i guess i'm just kind of emphasizing some of the things you've already said actually but thinking about the role of corporate leaders group thinking about the role of say business in the community which is another great organization it's those organizations have recognized that there's an audience called SMEs that have to be communicated with in a different way recognizing they don't have the time they don't have some of the resources of bigger organizations so we need to work much as as andrew was saying earlier on to disentangle some of this stuff and try and make it as straightforward as and simple as possible and recognize that actually a lot of the innovation and opportunities will come from it but also reflecting on something frankie was talking about she was talking about time to market and the effort that has to go in i think she's talking about a particular fiber wasn't she and i think that's also where we need to put some of these platforms for innovation together and the one to say that i'm involved with is this one in the water industry where we've got a very clear commitment about what we're trying to do what we think success looks like which is net zero by 2030 so come and play on that journey but also as part of that we have these funds and they're set up in different ways so there's one of them which is through our economic regulator called catalyst and essentially that is exactly targeting the sorts of ideas that are coming from very small companies sometimes that say well that might just be the idea that's going to make the big difference in some of these areas and it's fun essentially it's seed core funding to get some of these things going now that sort of stuff didn't exist a couple of years ago and we're seeing a huge amount of a momentum and pick up and it just helps that first step on the journey fantastic thank you peter and thinking about some of what you mentioned there and also coming back to you gonzale because you mentioned about risk and i was just going to ask you know what do you see is some of the biggest risks that SMEs face of not taking action for me the risk come for not understanding the changes ahead and the technological revolution we are seeing in the energy sector we are really amazed by the technological revolution of clean solutions of renewables for the world I win renewables are today the most competitive form to produce electricity 90% of the world this is a big change but this is a big change in the power sector so we will only need renewables this is like a network so you have to understand that if you don't understand that you will have some risk but this is this will also affect transport because we are going to change completely to transport system and we have this revolution of batteries and electric cars and electric vehicles tracks there is a debate whether green hydrogen or electricity batteries but definitely it's going to change we don't know the speed we think it's going to go very fast but in the building sector it's the same so and in the hardware based industries it's going to be the same so I think the best the biggest risk for suppliers is not to understand the technological and industrial revolution behind us and to understand for instance and this is a very interesting thing we are moving to a more electrified system everywhere but the cost are going to go down for instance for Spanish consumer industrial consumers electricity is going to be cheaper than in the UK because we have more sun and more wind you have more offshore wind but this is changing everything so for instance it's a competitive advantage for instance in the past the important thing or the competitive advantage was to have oil and today in the future the competitive advantage will be to have sun and this is going very fast so not to understand the changes and not to understand the speed of the changes so picking up on that and thinking about you know some of these are very you know when we talk about SMEs we're talking about you know some of the very smallest businesses as well but how do we support those really to kind of take the innovative ideas that they may have and to scale them up and to be able to support them to grow which you know you've all mentioned about that growth being important so maybe Ollie do you want to come in yeah I mean we have so we have 14 accelerators business accelerators around the UK that they're all free and they get advice there they get space and I think most importantly probably they get access to to a network which is what Peter has said I think you know in an old banking world you know somebody'd come in to the bank manager and ask them about their business and what they could do in a new world that's not going to happen we've got much more efficient ways of sharing knowledge and I think that knowledge is going to get shared through networks I think everyone knows that it's a team sport but a lot of the time if you speak to SME owners the best thing that you can do is connect them with other SME owners in the same space who face the same challenges which is what Frankie mentioned that's where they'll get the knowledge that's where they'll know how to avoid mistakes and that's also where they'll be able to share ideas and hopefully get financing for that you know that golden nugget that's a brilliant idea that just has to be scaled incredibly quickly so I don't think there's a single answer but I think the one thing that everyone is speaking about on this panel and this conference is is that this is a team sport and so we sort of need to put down some of the old competitive dynamics and and all make this all make this happen together so whether it's you know Peter's network whether it's the BITC network whether it's our network or Iberdrola's there's just a huge power of us and the network that we need to capitalise on so I suppose then that you know because a lot of that is about communication and how we actually reach a lot of those companies you know the smallest or just even if it's an individual you know right up to the medium size so I mean what are the some of the ways that you are doing that within your different supply chain so maybe coming to you first Julian? Sure I mean Andrew touched on it in his opening remarks I think the power of the trade associations for our sectors should not be underestimated and certainly in the food and drink sector really pleased that all of our major associations across the agri food sector are really helping debunk some of the myths around this and helping to educate smaller companies and share best practice and show how to collaborate and share the information that's needed because I think making it very sector specific it makes it very relevant and ensures that it stays very practical and these are things that we're hearing all the time and then it is just a constant drumbeat of communications we were really pleased we got an A rating for our supplier engagement and the CDP survey last year I mean very proud of that because it shows I think how far our procurement teams are putting energy and effort into the ways that they communicate with all suppliers yes there is a focus on immediate action with those those top 100 strategic suppliers but we we try and engage everybody in our business and we have to change as well as a mindset we've got to be much more open to the entrepreneurial ideas you know when we look at the 22 areas we're going to focus investments in coming years to take down our carbon footprint we realize we don't have all the answers and neither do those big suppliers so we're constantly getting you know surprised in a good way by people coming up with great new ideas that we can take on I mean that one very practical example from GB was it was it was an entrepreneurial landowner with an entrepreneurial energy company that came to us and said we can build you a solar farm in Yorkshire by your biggest factory for those who don't know the geography of the UK that raised quite a few eyebrows to begin with that you could put a solar farm in Yorkshire but that is now supplying 20% of that factory's needs for energy and it's on land that couldn't actually be put back to use as farmland so it's it's getting a second lease of life and just to say for those that don't know Yorkshire it's traditionally wet not very sunny so um now you talked about obviously you know kind of how to engage and I'm just thinking with you know in Spain you've got the launch the new SME climate hub there Gonzalo I was just wondering what do you see as some of the challenges coming up in terms of actually how you start engaging SMEs in that and in some ways you know Andrew was talking about how quickly we've managed to engage SMEs within you know but there's been a real campaign you know behind it within the UK to really get that sign up to get that engagement and it's still ongoing there's the bus that you know if you see it anyway it's a green bus going around the UK so what are some of the things that you're looking to do within Spain also some of the challenges that you see coming up we have everything to do I agree that we are at the beginning of the journey so at our Spanish Ring Road group we are we have like a specific project for MSME I think it's very important one thing that has been touched here that is industrial policy so there are a lot of opportunities out there but countries we cannot support everything because the resources are scared so we have to find where for instance for a Spanish firm where sectors where we think we are competitive and to focus all industrial policy in this specific sector because at the end of the day you need to be competitive to take advantage of the opportunities for instance in Spain we have water issues we think we are competitive this initiation we have very good firms there and water has always been a very scarce resource in Spain in Spain so we have competitive advantage in the energy sector in renewables as well and I don't know in batteries so I think one of the of the key element will be to focus to focus on sectors and of course and collaborative projects between big firms government and alliances and but in a specific sector so we will in a space we are focusing on sectors where we think we are be we are going to be competitive in a in a in a global sphere Beverly just one thing I think we have we have to remember is that a lot of SMEs at the moment are trying to figure out how to emerge from the pandemic in a positive way you know if you look at the Bank of England data SMEs in aggregate are 25% more in debt in the UK than they were before you know we approved something like £15 billion worth of government financing now the government I think has been very sensible in the time period that they're allowing companies to repay those loans but we have to remember that you know SMEs have a huge range of things that they need to do and so we need to balance the help we give them to emerge positively from the pandemic as well as focusing on climate which is hugely important but if we just go out and I know we won't and just sort of shout and scream climate at them you know that will that will turn them off so I think it's it's how we balance those communications in a sensible way in in a language that they can understand just a reflection I suppose it's also about trying to be clear about what the ask is as well isn't it so it's all very well us talking at one level but in reality we've got to decode it and say well this is what we're trying to do say the water the water sector in the UK this is what we're trying to do these are some of the ways some of the pathways that we think will actually achieve net zero by 2030 which starts to give areas of opportunity for you as an SME and then to the point that you were making earlier part of our role can be not only in in terms of incubating and helping ideas come but also making those connections and drawing those connections between different offerings and all of a sudden you know you move from for example a simple sensor that a company wants to produce to detect leakage in a different way which enables us to produce less water and save energy save carbon and you tie it together with other sensors and then you tie it together with artificial intelligence and they're all coming from different supplies and then all of a sudden you've got a smart system that enables you to do things that an entirely different way to how you'd have traditionally thought about doing it and that again is the role of I think bigger businesses because we can actually do play that sort of integration role and help bring those things together and help create some of those networks so I think that is part of our our duty and our obligation in this fantastic now I've been asking the questions but I did just want to check whether anyone in the audience would like to ask a question at all if there's any kind of things that are on your mind that you'd like to put to any of our panellists if so kind of yeah and please um do I might need you to come up to speak here or we quickly pass your microphone because we're going to get you on the live stream so John to come hello and thank you very much my name is Stefan Bütner I'm chair of the UNEC task force and industrial energy efficiency and um I'm wondering whether in that work that you're doing that you've described you have also had the opportunity to assess the huge variety of needs that SMEs are facing considering that industry or businesses themselves are spread across about 30 sub sectors and understand it's really hard um to to get a a valid picture of everybody's needs particularly since I guess it's it's mainly the challenge to interest them into something in something that is not their daily business so triggering the decision to decide to do something it's a great take off with that one um it's a great question I mean I suppose we've been looking at some some some of the things I've been saying we've been looking at it from the perspective of what those SMEs produce in terms of products or services into our businesses but if we think about it and to flick it the other way and think about them as businesses and them as sectors I think it's really important that we look at them uh in terms of the sectoral area so I mean I think the point was made earlier about the the power of trade associations well if we think about those trade associations and we think about how we say for us as a water company interface with them or how we as business in the community interface with them or how we as corporate leaders interface with them what's relevant to give them into that particularly sectoral approach so that's certainly a piece of work that we're doing I know in business in the community at the moment thinking about how we and target the offering in a sectoral way so that those SMEs within that particular area get something which is more relevant to them than something which is perhaps just a bit too generic and if I just come in just pulling some of the threads from um other speakers I think we you know we've got to engage companies in a way that makes practical sense so one of the learnings we've had from the work we've been doing this year in the hospitality sector is you people get the climate crisis but they want to know what they can do about it in very practical ways so when you talk to them about energy we found going in and a lot of pubs that we did pilots with we found we're not following best practice with energy management we're not using the latest kit that would get the more energy efficient and so it was explaining you know the implications of that in terms of costs but also their overall carbon footprint talking about renewable energy tariffs which can reduce their carbon footprint very quickly but also allowing that with better management and better energy practices in very practical ways gets them the win-win of reducing carbon and saving money as well and it's it's finding the ways of really bringing it to life I think it's critical in this space yeah I mean to to sort of try and address your question directly Stefan I don't think we're at the point yet where we have enough data to be able to say this sector these are the interventions but but I think what what you need to get to and hopefully you know the the tool that's been launched today will help is you need a sort of you need a matrix of this is the size of my company and this is the sector and therefore based on that matrix these are the four or five suggestions that we would make for you to do this you know call up your bank or your supplier and have a conversation with them as to how you can take those four or five actions but I don't think we're there yet I think it'll take us a year or two of gathering more data before we can do that if I may complement to that we have been doing that from another angle in Germany for the past five to six years doing projects on triggering decisions to invest to do energy efficiency in industrial SMEs and there we dissect from about 1000 companies per sector size geography what matters what the issues are for example energy management about 50 percent of micro and small companies don't do any way of structured energy management no matter what means and they they are stuck with doing the easy things and there I can only invite you and everybody else to collaborate also with with the task force because we are gathering exactly that data also for 88 additional countries so happy to share thank you fantastic thank you now sadly we're going to have to very soon bring this to an end but I wanted to ask you each to do a closing point and on this I mean you're all leading companies you're here because you understand this because you're taking you know quite strong action on this and you are pressing ahead in your sectors but obviously there are many businesses that we need to to still bring along on that journey and many of them may not have started to engage their supply chains yet and therefore there's a massive opportunity there so I wondered what advice would you give to other large companies who are going on this journey in terms of how they engage their SMEs in their supply chains shall I kick off it I mean if companies are not already engaging their suppliers larger companies then absolutely you must start to talk to the people who deliver the goods and services that you use in your business and it is that constant communication and also you know be clear with your suppliers set the goals that you want them to strive for whether it's setting targets that are science-based switching to renewable electricity sharing data but set you know tangible commitments that you need from your supplier base whatever the size of that business because that will nothing will focus minds more than when you're setting some goals for people to follow I was just thinking actually I think it was Rosalie made the point about that stability and demand certainly about demand and that comes to the point about us being clear about what we're doing so making those commitments and be very clear about what those commitments are in terms of what we're trying to do because that gives you some indication of the sorts of things that are going to work for you as an organisation and I think always for large businesses to encourage them to group together and the more that we can get sexual commitments to things the more that will give confidence to the supply chain that they're playing into something that's useful so if you're in the UK at the moment you know that every water company is committed to net zero by 2030 you know what the route map looks like because you can go online you can see it is all there so actually you know that every single water company is going to be receptive to some of the stuff you're going to be doing so the more the more organisations that can group together and do that the better and of course it also helps with asks of government because we can go to government and say well we're doing this if you could tweak that bit that'll be a bit easier and by the way it's all of us talking so that's a big one and the last point I've made is the one I've emphasised earlier on which is you know create the environment to help you know those innovation platforms they're things that we can do as big businesses that will really help those small businesses take the first step so so why wouldn't we yeah I mean I think look every every big business is going to have to get to net zero that's the bottom line it's just a question of how quickly we do it wouldn't it be funny if in three or four years time those companies that had big companies that have moved first and got their supply chains in order will be we're in a better place from a cost of capital perspective from companies that won I think that's going I think that's going to happen and I think the chancellor today announcing you know the sustainable disclosure reporting initiative is really important because that will bring transparency but I think you know it's a team sport let's talk to one another let's share our learnings and like every kind of human problem we always solve it by sharing knowledge talking to each other about how we do it and then sharing best practice and doing that fantastic and finally to you Gonzalo yes three messages well as big firms up and business association focus on climate change we are convinced of the key role ms is um have to play in on climate action and the opportunities the business opportunities second I think we are developing a lot of activities suit to support them is true but we have to recognize that we are at the beginning of the journey and we have to do much more things and with urgency and I think alliances are extremely important and the final thing is that we think this initiative the SME climate is very timely it's filling a gap and we think it's it's key to accelerate the action and one of the best platforms in the world to support MSc's thank you fantastic and big thank you to all of you for being a wonderful panelist today now for those who would like to find out more about the SME climate hub do please go and look it up online there is if you go through actually the UK side there is a UK page and I know Sam is that at the front of me looking at me kind of go make sure you mention it um so please do and also you know obviously do go up and look up the Spanish you know SME climate hub as well and do please take a look on there there's lots of tools and resources as Julia mentioned we are launching the climate fit which is a new tool later in the week and that will be if you go um that will be on the SME climate hub we'll also as CISL be doing a press release around that and some media so please do um if you want some more information that my colleague G is also at the back of the room as well and able to answer any questions on it including on the way that we engage SMEs at CISL which obviously for us going forward is very important and we see as a critical part of our strategy so thank you very much to everyone for listening today and for being here both here and online and thank you very much again to our panellist thank you