 Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening. Whatever time it is wherever you are in the world. Welcome to another episode of the non-profit show We're really excited because this is drill down day two with one of our absolute favorites LaShonda Williams one of the trainers at Fundraising Academy LaShonda is coming to us today from the Greater Houston area talking about ethics in Non-profit fundraising. This is such a big topic that we've put it into two days So that we can really kind of explore this and and really get a grip on it LaShonda and I were talking in the green room It's something that you only hear about her talk when there's a talk about when there's problem Which is the wrong time to do something like this So we're excited to kind of get on this this bandwagon of really drilling down and figuring out what it is I'm Julia Patrick CEO of the American Non-profit Academy Jarrett Ransom will not be with us today She started off this morning with this, but then she kept freezing up So we had to kick her off just kicked her off, but she'll be back with us tomorrow We are here because we have amazing partners day in and day out They include Blumerang American Non-profit Academy your part-time controller Non-profit thought leader fundraising Academy at National University Where we have LaShonda Williams staffing boutique and non-profit nerd and non-profit tech talk if you want to access any of them 900 plus episodes we get you covered You can find us on streaming broadcasts podcast formats as well as our net our new and fabulous app so just scan that QR code and we'll be right with you and You can access all of the different content that we have more importantly. We have the content queen herself LaShonda Williams trainer at fundraising Academy if you were with us in the green room LaShonda really quickly talk to us about your quote-unquote day job because I think this is a fascinating tie-in to the whole topic of ethics So, yes, as we mentioned earlier I'm so excited to be a part of South Texas College of Law and I work in the office of philanthropy and alumni Engagement and I was sharing with Julia earlier. It's really important that we maintain Ethical behavior top of mind throughout the year not just when we're highlighting ethics month with AFP Ethics is in everything we do. It's in every part of the cost-selling cycle as well as the donor cycle So in every aspect as we're engaging with prospective donors as well as current donors We have to be mindful of our actions because our actions have tremendous implications not only on us as individual professionals but also Organizations and so I'm really excited to dive in on this topic and talk about some things that you know We've seen before in some ways that we can be proactive as opposed to reactive as we're transitioning and preparing for the new year You know, I love that and yesterday you kind of started us off with understanding what ethics actually what that framework is and You know the concept of moral principles that government govern behaviors as you spoke throughout the morning I realized it was so behavior oriented So if you're oriented, it is completely behavior driven. So as fundraising professionals It's our responsibility to make sure that we maintain higher levels of ethics and that means truthfulness honesty Transparency these are all paramount Because donors and prospective donors and trust us with their confidential information They entrust us with their resources both time and money It is our responsibility to maintain due diligence and adhering to what it is that they'd like for us to do with their Resources and the way that we handle and manage their resources You know and when you freeze it that way, I'm reminded that for so many donors and Corporate partnerships arrangements. It's the front-facing person from development that really Navigates that relationship through the whole organization. So, you know, you might think I'm Representing, you know this process, but in truth you're really representing an entire organization I mean, do you find that to be true? Yes, absolutely whenever you are in the development space No matter what role that you play within the organization You were truly reflective of the organization and so you want to be mindful of things like your social media As of late you may have noticed that a lot of companies and nonprofit organizations have made a tremendous shift in identifying what their code of ethics and what their mission statement and value statements are to ensure that We are aware of what the expectations are as it relates to social media, for example Granted your social media is your page. However, what you place on your page Does have implications with your organization. So when you're thinking about it from a Professional development person, whether you are the administrative associate or you're the vice president of the organization You really want to keep in mind that you want to kind of limit what your social media looks like and ask yourself What would the perception of our organization look like, you know, if I post something as derogatory Granted, you know, I work at a law school freedom of speech is very important however Yeah Face that we work in we have to be mindful because we what we say impacts our organizations and it could potentially impact The outcomes whether it be a prospective donor current donor We won't don't want to necessarily offend someone. So having these statements of expectations within the organization's Infrastructure is really important to guide the behavior across the globe across the organization as well as set the standards So that there's little room for ambiguity when it comes to my social media page because it does have implications Yeah, you know, that's a really good comment And I think especially as we navigate towards a general election in this country It's going to become stickier and more volatile And it just does it just happens. I think in general No pun intended with a general election. So, you know, I think that's a good reminder I want to jump into another good reminder and you mentioned this yesterday and that's the AFP Association of Fundraising Professionals Code of Ethics and yes, this you referenced this yesterday But a lot of our guests have referenced this continue to reference this Talk to us about this the ecosystem of this and what it means to you and how it impacts our sector So AFP has done a dynamic job in providing that foundation for fundraising professionals to have a guide To adhere to to think about how you are engaging not only your donors but also your colleagues in the industry and so, you know I mentioned earlier on the front end that it's really important to maintain that high level of transparency which is important as you're engaging and being entrusted to manage funds but in addition to that when we're talking about the transparency We want to make sure that when donors make gifts that those gifts are in fact going to those designations And it is our responsibility to provide donors with feedback and a follow-up of stewardship of how those funds are being spent And you know the stickiest part of the conversation when it comes to funding and transparency is What percentage is operational expenses versus those that are actually impactful to the organization's mission So it's really important that when we are preparing these annual reports and when we're sharing back with donors that we're being very transparent Some organizations depending on your structure may have operational resources and 100 percent of donations are being used to set services But in instances where that is not your organizational structure It is our responsibility and it falls in line with code of ethics that we share That you know x percentage of every dollar raised may be Going going towards operational expenses This helps build trust and most importantly the transparency will allow donors to make the decision as to which organizations they want to support And or which causes they want to support You know it's so interesting you bring this up. I had lunch with An executive director of an organization who last week out of just left field They're they're small organization received a hundred thousand dollar gift and Which for this organization was a transformational gift, right? And I would argue for many organizations it would be a transformational gift And it had very specific applications of use And none of it was for operations And it was for things that were good and that were great, but truly the organization Could make themselves more sustainable if they took some of those funds and put them towards operations and stuff like that And so they were taking this week to try and figure out How to go back to the donor and without appearing to be Like we can't take this unless we get that, you know, like basically educating the donor and and trying to figure out the vocabulary for that And and very fearful very fearful that they were going to lose the whole gift So I would say don't be afraid and this is this is where I go back to saying prevention So it's really important as you are developing the relationship with the donor As you're sharing the impact of the various services that your organization provide that you also Include the importance of operational expenses to ensure those said outcomes because without some initial resources It's impossible in many instances and also, you know, I I do this all the time and I love annual giving that's my thing I am the annual fund guru In their instances where specifically at the end of the year is a great time to implement An annual giving or an end of year campaign for unrestricted resources And one of the ways to do that is, you know, we we often look for those larger gifts that are transformational, which are great But in the world of the philanthropic landscape all gifts are important and all gifts matter and we treat all donors Like a major gift donor This is an opportunity to solicit reach out to those individuals who may not be able to make the more substantial gifts However, they're able to give modest gifts based on Their income and those are instances in which you would solicit for that unrestricted giving and then to be able to say Because of this unrestricted giving We've been able to provide these types of resources to support said programs that have been funded by Julia You know what? I love that and I don't think I've ever heard anyone talk about it that way As you know directly at the same time you are educating donors You're kind of Helping everything look like it's it's more forward thinking and the stewardship and the sustainability of an organization That's brilliant my friend. That's a really cool way to Kind of look at this with a more holistic approach And so yeah, that's an amazing thing. Well, one of the things that you also talked to us about is bringing truth to donors And I find this is a really interesting thing because it's like You don't want to look like you need the money, but you need the money And yet you don't want to bring up the bad things that are going on and you and you said like, you know, your fear And yet you have fear and it's like but how do you bring all of How do you put this all together and bring this truth to the donors? You know, it sometimes is a slippery slope but when we're thinking about it from an ethical and moral standard and what we're practicing with an Unconsistent basis it becomes effortless and Pairancy and truth they work in tandem And it's critical that we make sure that we're very forthcoming and forthcoming in many instances You know, there may be an instance where you mentioned the the scenario with they're not necessarily being able to Implement the program without the operational expenses. That's the perfect example But moreover if there are instances when a potential funder wants to support your organization And create a new initiative that is not in alignment with your organization's mission statement with its values Unfortunately, you know, you have to be very truthful and just simply say, you know, this is great We would love to pursue this but unfortunately, that's not in alignment with our current mission, you know, or you know It'd be very very kind and considerate about that You want to be forthcoming and not over deliver, you know over promise on things that you simply cannot deliver It minimizes any potential challenges that are in the future and it prevents any problems forthcoming Just like we have gift acceptance policies There are also donor acceptance policies as well that you could have in place If individuals who want to support your organization may not necessarily maintain a high ethical moral value That you'd like to be associated with your organization So being able to have those difficult conversations is one of the benefits of our responsibility and our opportunity to work in the development space Now I got to ask you this how often in your career Um and you're a bright shiny star. So I realize, you know, you're you're different than the majority of us in this in this sector But how often have you personally had to do this? So I will speak specifically of one example that um in my career We had a prospective donor And we weren't really certain of the said resources that wanted to sponsor an endowment And so Granted in the need discovery phase and the discovery phase is you're getting to know the prospective donor You're asking questions probing questions intentional questions to be able to make a complete donor profile But when it came to actual resources, we had a little ambiguity and we had to dig a little deeper And not only do we have to dig a little deeper I had to ask some subsequent questions because the last thing I wanted to do was to put our organization at risk to being affiliated with someone who potentially may not have Earned those resources from a morale standpoint With additional due diligence We discovered that the individual actually, you know had been you know very well to do but Literally below the radar and there are instances where individuals will hide Some of their resources through a variety of different investments So, you know, I would say do your due diligence, which is most important And that's where your prospect researcher comes into play and then you as a development professional asking the essential questions You know years ago I sat on the board of one of the nation's largest domestic violence shelters and we had a Very wealthy donor come in and who we had no engagement with none And this donor Wanted to make a huge gift that would have changed the course of this this amazing organization But um, they had a family member that was involved in a very high profile Domestic violence issue and half of the board felt like this individual was trying to Get behind You know a PR issue Right and we do not want to be someone's PR pawn No, it was really And then you know part of the board was like well, maybe this donor's trying to make amends and set a course because they don't believe I mean, it was hard. It was a heartbreaking time. It was a heartbreaking time because So many things would have changed with that gift and But you brought up a very good point, you know having a strong board that is well informed and educated On the morality issues and having a code of ethics established For the organization can play a critical role again in airing on the side of prevention and being willing to ask those questions That may not make us feel as comfortable But are essential and so, you know, you're what you said is like absolutely perfect And you know, that's that's the perfect scenario Is to be able to not be afraid to have those conversations because again There's ethics in everything we do and when we make the wrong decision Unfortunately, it's it's really hard to recover our reputation. It takes years To build a strong reputation You know being high performing impactful above board and then all it takes is one horrible pr issue And then your organization can Unfortunately reap horrible consequences and no longer be able to secure funding Yeah, you know lashonda is part of truth and I and I know this is kind of a little bit of a curve ball and but How do you navigate the relationship? with a donor Who who really loves you? And they trust you and because you are Representing the organization. They probably you know They probably make larger gifts or more Engaged gifts and then I'll say you go somewhere else or let's say you You navigate to a different part of the sector What does that look like because to me that's a that's another ethical issue that involves truth You're right. It is an ethical issue So first we must be mindful that relationships that we form on behalf of the organization belong to the organization And so that's the first thing from an ethical standpoint that you want to keep top of mind There have been instances where I have transitions roles And you know people do love lashonda But it's important and lashonda loves people But it's also important when you are you know when you're transitioning out and you may be you know sending out the letter saying You know, I'm no longer going to be with this organization There are some instances where you form some form genuine relationships and you want to stay connected to those set donors From an ethical standpoint You must first and foremost ask if they'd like to maintain communication Because donors have a right to privacy And we want to respect those donors rights to privacy And the second part is as you're conducting yourself if you carry forward that relationship on a personal note outside of that organization From an ethical standpoint, you are not to be soliciting those individuals on behalf of that new organization If the donor asks about the organization, that's fine for them to lead and guide that conversation But keeping in mind the the relationship in which you form that that relationship on the organization It belongs to the organization and I've carried many people with me But as far as creating conflicts of interest that is definitely a no go Okay, well, thank you for that because that's the reality of you know, how we navigate our our careers and you know Organizations and so that's uh, that's an important thing I want to switch now to something that's it's a little it's like third party But this is the accountability to the sector with the emphasis on watchdog groups and and how this works and and in understanding this I mean I I only I I kind of think that This doesn't happen unless there's a problem right a lot of times we think there's a watchdog group, you know, and you're right Yes, about that Well, it's important that you know when we are managing funds as nonprofit organizations that we're reporting with accuracy As I mentioned earlier not over-inflating Dollar amounts but also adhering to whatever your state and local laws are as it relates to charitable contributions And the method in which individuals provide those charitable contributions But moreover, we have to be mindful that yes, in fact, there are several Organizations that have taken it upon themselves to hold us to a higher level of accountability I mentioned earlier how organizations can have value statements You can have the moral code and their ethical codes. Well on the same in that same vein We also have organizations that kind of help keep us in alignment with what industry standard practices are as it relates to How we are engaging not only the donors, but how we're managing those said funds And you know, there are a variety of different organizations. I'll start with state and local also mentioned the irs It's very important. We're making sure that we're hearing to their guidelines But also there is charitable giving there. Um, there's also charity manager, you know, some of us may be on bbb And it's important that we take a look on those said Websites to see what our ratings are to ensure that we have a good rating And in fact, if there are any concerns that have been posted about our organizations that we address those Unfortunately, that's a reactive. We want to air on proactive But you know, if we're proactive enough, we'll never become a part of the list That is on the list that says that, you know, there are some compliance and regulatory issues But in the event that there are it's important that we are checking on an annual basis If not by annual finding out how often they're reporting And making sure that if there are any discrepancies that we're clearing those up in the because we want to maintain The reputation of our organization branding is everything and all it takes is one instance one donor to google your organization And it have a poor rating on one of the charitable giving websites And then it could potentially ruin a potential donor relationship Yeah, huge. Well, you know, it's it's an interesting thing because Again, we kind of started this off yesterday and for those of you joining us, you know, we pulled this information and a lot of these Topics when we work with fundraising academy from your amazing textbook. I have it flagged with a lot of different things And if if I'm not mistaken you my friend are working on a newer edition that will probably be out At some point in the near future, but we when we talk about this These ethics you brought up yesterday, and I just want to revisit it before we let you go quickly Um, there really are five questions that you need to be checking off If you're not feeling right or if you want to you know, do an exercise about the trajectory of a decision or relationship And they're pretty simple, but they're pretty complex, right depending on where you are. They really are, you know You asked me yesterday about some, you know examples and I'm going to start with the very first one Um, is it legal? So as we're all preparing for the holiday season And we are sharing up our ethical standards and our moral practices One of the things that comes top of mind as an example and it's stated in the book is travel, you know Travel is very sticky in some instances. Um, and it hits both on the legal and ethical standpoint So we talked about, you know reporting things that we may see Um that may not be in alignment with what would be considered ethical and and I say again That if you see something you must say something and so with that in mind is we're traveling throughout the holiday season You know, some of us are state employees and you're able to get the state rate I would say err on the side of caution and do not use the state rate if you're not on state business Um, you know another example, you know would be you know when you know traveling You know holistically you want to make sure that you're you're very mindful of how much you're spending, you know Some institutions and states have a said per diem rate on how much you can spend per day And then there are instances where there's a little bit of flexibility And what I would say from an ethical standpoint and a moral standpoint You want to be as cost effective as you can when you are conducting business on behalf of the organization Earlier julia we talked about the transparency and accountability with reporting and we don't want to have to share with our donors that we are Being excessively elaborate in our travel on behalf of business More often than not when you're receiving transformational gifts those donors want those dollars to impact the services And or the designation in which they have determined they would want you to be able to To to to allocate those resources So we want to make sure that we are doing the right thing all the time And we're mindful of what others would say if they would know What it is that we're doing so acting in the state of transparency will help you with Determining what you believe to be ethically correct. And then also having those guiding principles as a reminder Whether it be your organization or your personal accountability right It's such an interesting thing because one of the the question is Number four, which I think is a really interesting way to reframe this and and it goes like this How would I explain my actions to someone else? And if you would have a problem with explaining Yeah, and not being able to provide a reasonable rational response Then that means that you have crossed an ethical and or moral High ground and it's important that we do Keep those types of questions in mind because there are instances. I know like everyone else You know, you want to be live a little lavish have a great time but do that on your time and not on company resources Right. Well, I think that fundraisers and especially people in development offices They get that knock internally, you know people that would think oh, they just go to fancy parties and fancy lunches and fancy dinners Right. I mean you've seen that Yes, I've definitely seen it Um, and it's important too that you know with that and this goes back to reporting You know with that that we're keeping in mind What percentage we're spending when we're doing events and when we're engaging donors And I get I do completely understand the the difference when you are engaging higher net worth donors There are levels of expectations and we want to make sure that we adhere to them But we also want those high net worth donors to understand that we are mindful of resources And that we are a good stewards of resources that have been allocated. Yeah, absolutely I think it speaks volumes or really really do. Well lashonda williams I always I always learn something from you and at the same time. I'm very inspired You're not a hair on fire kind of woman. You're very direct and like you know, you're always so logical And I think that just helps elevate our profession Tremendously and you know when when we started this show nearly three years ago that was like one of our our really foundational desires was how do we elevate our profession Um, so that everybody wins and and you're I think that incredible voice coming to us from fund raising academy You know lashonda is part of an amazing team and there is tremendous tremendous content free content You can find it at fundraising-academy.org And you'll be amazed how many resources there are for you as individuals for teams for boards Leadership CEOs, it's an amazing amazing thing So make sure you check out fundraising-academy.org because you will be better for it Again, I'm julia patrick's the e of the american nonprofit academy jaret ranson the nonprofit nerd herself Will be back joining us tomorrow. Hey, you know Truly we are grateful every day for our partners and they include bloomering american nonprofit academy your part-time controller nonprofit thought leader national universities amazing fund raising academy Staffing boutique nonprofit nerd and nonprofit tech talk They're the folks that stand behind us day in and day out and they've been part of this two-day drill down As we really explore ethics in the nonprofit sector What it means to us how it impacts our world Our donors and our clients lashonda. Thank you. This is really powerful and a great way to end the year so that we can start the year right Your spot on it's been a fantastic day With you is always very excited and as julia mentioned make sure you check out the portal and save the date May 1st and 2nd Cultivate conference year two. We're very excited to bring it to you from sunday sandy ago It'll be amazing. I think we're going to be broadcasting live from there and maybe even participating in some of your Talks and so it's going to be a lot of fun and as we get more More information about it. We'll share that Help me before we let you go you do have You you do have speaker a call for speakers open right now. Yes Call for speakers are open right now We're definitely looking for speakers to talk to speak on a variety of different topics that are current trends which include AI annual giving major gifts Developing fundraising plans Engaging boards. So there's a variety of different topics that we are seeking Call for proposals for and check us out on linked in fundraising academy Awesome. We love it. Well, my friend have a wonderful holiday. Thank you for inspiring so many of us Today was no different Very very inspirational and very very important work. Hey everybody as we end every episode We leave with this message and it goes like this To stay well So you can do well. We'll see you back here tomorrow. Thank you, mr. LaShonda