 Hello everyone. My name is Akal Agwek Ngong. I am a former president of both community in the U.S. and I have been a resident of Bromance for the last 18 years. I'm part of the former Lost Boys of Sudan. In the studio today is Mr. Panchul Jankunyukul. He was an old-time educator from Sudan, beginning teachings in 1978. And the reason why he is in the studio today is because he was one of the founding teachers of the Lost Boys education back in Ethiopia in 1987, 1988. And he continued with that program through internally displaced person camps of Pachala and Narus. And he continued with the same program at a Kakuma refugee camp in Kenya. And so he has been a part of Lost Boys' story from the day they entered Ethiopia. And the reason why we brought him to the show today is because he has been visiting us in the U.S. And we felt like the story of the Lost Boys education has been missed. And so our focus today in the studio is to talk about how he and his colleague actually established education. It is going to focus on education of the Lost Boys from Ethiopia all the way to Kenya. And then we'll talk very briefly about how the resettlement of the Lost Boys came about in the late 1990s that we came here. And if there is any other things that we can talk about, we will. So I thank our Brumman viewers and all people who are watching us around the world today. So we welcome you, Usas Panchul to the studio. Welcome to Brumman. And with me here is Megan, who is also going to be a cause of the program. Again, our program will focus purely, purely on the Lost Boys education since Mr. Panchul was the founder, one of the founding members who actually established the program. So welcome. Do you want to say anything, Megan? No, welcome. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you very much. As you have had, my name is Panchul Junkwit. Formerly I was a teacher in profession before war broke out in San Sudan in earlier 1983. Then due to the insecurity situation, I migrated to Ethiopia and to Kakuma refugees came in 1988. The idea of movement to Ethiopia was to seek for the security and better life. From there, we are really very lucky to have a chairman from our community, Mr. Pyong Den, depotized by Tembiyar. Then the logistics was Mr. Alayri Om. In the refugee scam, it has been realized that most of the children in the refugee scams miss their parents. They are just later on with our proper care. He has decided to call a community meeting whereby people sit, sit down and then identify the number of these minors within the community. They organize, at least at the end, they identified almost 12,000 children. As a result, people went and organized for a meeting so that they are a group, in group, in whichever group was made one thousand, each group one thousand. They established almost 10 groups of minors, the bill for themselves shelters with the support of the caretakers. Then we, the teachers, with the teachers volunteers to continue if possible in taking care, then organize some sort of teaching. With the help of UNHCR and the management of the camp, we were able to open some classes for them. And it was a bit very difficult because which curriculum to adopt, because in Ethiopia, they were teaching the Amharic, which is contrary to our situation back home. Then culturally, we differ a bit with Ethiopia. So we sought to decide jointly with UNHCR and the management of the camp to adopt the Kenyan curriculum. So the Kenyan curriculum was adopted in Ethiopia? It was adopted due to similarities in culture and environment. Then from there UNHCR was able to facilitate and bring in some books and curriculum. Then we started teaching in 1988, continuity in 1989, we continued up to 90. In 91, when the president, the prime minister, Mangusto was overthrown, then we had a lot of worries. Then we decided to evacuate children to the liberated areas of San Sudan, particularly in Poshala. That was very hard and difficult withdrawal because the attacking group were following us. Then we have to rush. A lot of losses occurred in a particular place called Gilo. We managed to move up to Poshala. In Poshala, they were organized and we continued with them. We organized them and we keep them in a very hard life because there were no food for some days. But Red Cross came in and there's RRC, which is San Sudan Relief Rehabilitation Commission. They came for an assessment. Later on, after one month, the food was brought, airlifted. We continued for the whole of 91. In 92, there was also a preparation of the Sudan government. We joined the Supreme Government to attack Poshala. Then we had to move out from Poshala with the children. Some of them were later on court and sent to Khatum. We rushed with some of them up to Boomer. From Boomer, we came to Koragrab. Luckily enough, the Red Cross followed us and then came with some tracks that facilitated us because it's an area where there's no water. An area also was completely full of hazards. Then we managed to move up to Magos. And I was really very happy just to see... In this picture, I was with these children. And in this place, we were even attacked. We lost some children, almost seven something or that kind lost in this attack. From there... Were you here? I was here. In this picture. I was accompanying them in this picture. So I was really very happy just to see this one. Where are you in this picture? You cannot see. I mean, where in Sudan are you? It would have been in a place called Magos and Capoeira. Somewhere between Poshala and Naroos. Then it was a long journey, very hard. We managed to move up to Capoeira. Then from there to Naroos. And how many children are here at this point? The number increased because we were moving with some families that were following. Almost 16,000. The number increased. 16,000. So we move, we travel up to Naroos. In Naroos, the area was prepared by the Red Cross. Some food was there, prepared. And then when we came to Naroos, they were provided food. People settled. Very unfortunate attack again, Capoeira. We had to move the children to the Kenyan border. When we reached Kenyan border, UNHCR came and picked the children to Kakuma. That was the little story about how we moved that long journey up to Kakuma. And at that point, 16,000 are moving into the Kakuma campus. Exactly. And how many people are in Kakuma already? That's a huge camp there, right? It's a huge camp. There was nobody at Kakuma. At that point? And so it was actually opened by the UNHCR. And so the teacher, Mr. Panjul, just said that there were 16,000 children. Children. But when you add the families, I do not include the families because it's what does a movement. We are unable even to count. But we know the number of the minors because we have the one that's courting them. So in Kakuma, the process of continuing with education continued with the support of UNHCR. Some unused that are connected with education came in like Radabanan, well food, sorry, Lutheran Welfare Federation. They came in and support. IRC, International Rescue Committee. So we came and divided the teachers into two. A group that stay at the residence areas with them to control them because they don't have parents. We call them cateches. A group that teach in the class, physically. So we came and divide the teachers into two. The group that sleep with them, control them, cancel them. And then the group that teach them at daytime. That was the process and education continued until the process of settlement came in, until some of them just decided to come to this end. So that's all about the movement of these people and how we organize them and feed them to Kakuma. How you move from Ethiopia. It's 12,000 back to South Sudan and then back to Kakuma. Back to Kakuma. And then just travel that long way up to Kakuma. Yeah. Now you both originally from Boer, right? Did you know one another before you were displaced? Did you know one another in Boer? I didn't know. He knows my parent, but I don't think he knew me. But since the founding of the schools back in 1988, he became my teacher. So I knew him then. And I have known him throughout this time. Because he was one of the founding educators who actually built the program. What is the importance? How did you get called to become an educator? What is the importance of education to you? Yeah. In fact, professionally, as I told you earlier, I was a teacher. I'm trained on how to manage the primary education in terms of how to manage the primary school curriculum, how to manage the resources and so forth. So myself, I was the Inspector of Zone One because we divided schools into zones. And that was a thousand students present. I was given Zone One as an Inspector and member of Education Committee. That was the arrangement. But my job as teacher, I like it because I'm trained on that line. So when I came here, I thought I have to volunteer because these children are children of my own country. So if I'm staying idly, I have to give them what I have. So that was my contribution to my community. Yeah. And what's important about education? Why is it so important? Why when we're as a people struggling for food and shelter and life, why is education so important in that? Yeah, it was really very important because most of the school in South Sudan were closed. Yeah. Because the Civil War was very tough in the South. Some areas are run by the SPLM and some areas were still under the government. So the towns under the government remains as military barracks because the citizens ran out from it. So completely there was no education. So we thought when this country got an independent, who will manage it? So that's why we thought of educating these groups so that when it comes to the level, to the stage of development, then they can pay up from there. So you're looking at that. That was how we see it was important. Now, the Megan question is very interesting. I assume that because I didn't know I assume that when we had when you had this conversation with the UN, probably they thought about giving food and medicine, but education was not their priority. So you might have actually negotiated with the UN to actually support education as well. You see when you see the rights of the human being, education is part of rights. And that's why we convinced the UN ECR. Food is a service that is a right of the person and education also is a right. So as right, we have to struggle to see that these children are getting educated. Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about what you were saying the difference culturally between the Ethiopian curriculum and the Kenyan curriculum? When come to the language, the the medium of instruction in Ethiopia is Amharic. The national language Amharic. The national is Amharic. Yeah. And then our national language is considered in Sudan is English and Arabic. Yeah. So when you take an Ethiopian language, it will not suit the environment at home. And then I mean, one of the things that strikes me and I'm very naive about it is the numbers of different cultural languages from Sudan that have come to settle in Vermont. And what was that like in the camps to have so many different cultural backgrounds just from South Sudan, tribal differences or tribal languages? In fact, I'm not clear a bit with the question. So the question very much is, especially when people with different languages from South Sudan came to this refugee camp. So we might not have the same language in which they communicate. How did you manage to actually run the camp and manage these people and orient them specifically around education? Yeah, exactly. You see, when we migrated from South Sudan to the neighboring countries, our national language was English. So we communicated in Arabic and English. So communication was very easy. There was no problem. When you go to your local community, you speak your whole language. But when come to the general situation, you speak English and Arabic. Yeah, we use them both. And the South Sudanese identity becomes more important. Yeah. Yes, as a follow up to Megan question, with Pancho is if I remember very clearly in Ethiopia in 1998, when you open schools, we were only you only started the program with education and there was no Arabic. Why? Yes, we share discussion on the issue. People thought Arabic was to be included to the curriculum. But where will you get the textbooks? And it was difficult because we had the line, we're all lying between cartoon and and asia. So we thought when when we adopt an Arabic, where will you get the books? Very difficult. So in that regard, we say we better we better take English only. Can you give us a picture, a call of what the school, what school looks like for you and Kakuma? There is cool at Kakuma. Thank you. They, they, they school as they has as the teacher said, when let me just go back to Ethiopia to pin you do. When they is when they started and I wanted to ask them a question, when they started the program, there were no buildings. There were no, there were no, it's technically, there were no pen, there were no notebooks, there were no books, there were no schools. And so we had to start, they had to group us into 12 groups, as he said, then they had to recruit teachers. I believe the teacher told me they recruited about 75 people from the local population. 75, maybe there were 10 of them already 85. How does, can you imagine, how does 85 people teach 12,000 people? What kind of a school is it? So yeah, go ahead. Yeah, we came and divided into two sessions. We teach them at the morning session group. And they go, when this group move, we start with another group. This is how we continue. But we continue the recruitment, because whenever we feel those who knows how to ride, and then we also we continue recruiting the number increases, that what they start. Okay. It advice. It is something what they start. But at the end, we recruited a lot of the people. And no schools. So with no books, no paper, no pans, no buildings. What's the most important thing that you want to teach a group of kids? Let me just answer that question. Yeah. So what if I remember better clearly, they started opening schools under the trees. So when it rains, then there is no school. Exactly. When it is sunny like today, there is a school. So that was it. Then they divided as the teacher said, they divided into two sessions. There is was morning session, if I remember, and evening and afternoon sessions, the same class, the same teacher. So if you are in the morning session, you come in the morning and you are taught arithmetic and English. Then you go home. Then the second, the afternoon group comes, the same teacher. Then they are taught the same subject. And so what became most important was you sit in a circle. If I remember, I remember my first great teacher was who says Gabriel Bach. So he would make us sit in the circle. And then we would write ABC in the dirt. And so I remember my first exam was actually done in the dirt, ABC. That was how we were tested. And so the UN came in and they saw that the teachers already organized the program. So they brought material as the teacher said. They brought books. They brought, you know, they brought the best grade books from Kenya called allow children and distributed to us. And so over the three years, the programming, we actually builds our own schools, our own classroom. We built our own dumps. And then the UN supplied us with with with with with the books and the notebooks and the pens and the pencil. What I don't remember is is and I I don't know where you paid or where you volunteered. We're volunteers. Volunteers. There was no pay. And this seems like it must have come culturally from the communities that you were born in. The community that you grew up in there must have been a strong support for education as a value, as you say, as a human right. Yes. And and and if I could jump in that, yes, the the they felt well, that they felt that that that that the population of South Sudan was losing education because of the war. If they if if no if the if our generation was not educated, then there would be a problem when peace comes. So they they felt as he said that that that they should volunteer to develop us and and and and and I I didn't remember what was happening, what the discussion where we were just there and receive whatever service that was given to us. And in this case it was education. Yeah. In addition, the we had also women group organized in the camp. And whenever there are children that malnourished, then they organize porridge, the sub food for them. So they usually come as women and they move every morning with with some kind of sub food for malnourished children. So the that group also that that was their contribution. So they were also considered as catechists because daily they just come and move with this. And whenever there are malnourished children, then they are given services separately or at the basis. So that was the contribution we made as volunteers, teachers and even the community also was also very concerned about their life. The word is often lost boys, but are there lost girls? Is it lost children? Boys and girls. And even here we as I said here on the program many times. Yes, there were lost girls. But what as the teacher said the girls who were there in the refugee camp were put up in the post set families. But we remain in the minor group. And so but it's still as you can remember we we had lost girls who came here. About three thousand and six hundred who resettled here in the US. We have a handful of lost girls who ended up here with us. Yeah. But the name lost boys I didn't know until I came here was when I when people called me a lost boy. When you came to the United States. And then people began calling us lost boys. That was how I learned about the name. Yeah. Before that, nope. Yeah. We were actually called minors and accompanied minors. And accompanied minors, yeah. So it's a way of telling the stories to use the term. Yeah. I mean I'm struck by the Sudanese community here, the strong value that education plays this. Do you agree that that's something. Yes. I agree. And it has. And it has something to do with our elders, like the teacher, teacher financial here that they they at a very young age. They sensitize us that we should value education because when you learn that often opportunities for you to progress. And so when we relocated to the U. S. We still continue with that value. And so that is why education is such a very, very important value to us as a community and as a people. And and and and I don't know how many time they told us to take education seriously. They they said it time and again. So so that is why it is stuck with that. So let me go back to the teacher and has so now it is 1998, 97 and then the U. S. or the UNHCR and the USA. We want to take these boys. How will it happen? I mean, in fact, there was little resistance from some communities. And some communities do see when these children go there, they will get better life. They might also get the education. As an issue, people later on agreed that if they go there, they will be getting better life and they might even as a diaspora, they will be supporting us back because they will support families. And even those who might come to San Sudan also will will transfer the education they gain to San Sudan and help in the development of San Sudan. So at the end we came realize that they are going to USA. It's not harmful. It's good. But yet some people, including me, were seeing when they say lost boy, we thought our children got lost. But then the issue of loss was really in our concept was really very bad. If our children lost, how will we get them? But recently we came realize that these children have not lost. Because they still support the families back home as diaspora. They are even contributing in boosting the national economy. So that thing is not existing at the moment in my mind. My coming here also made me happy because I get most of them now landed some with master degrees, some with PhDs and some with degrees and so some are still in the schools. That means our children are in good hands and are in good care. So we are really thankful to the American people for having taken care of our children and the government at the same time. We are happy on that. So the idea of being lost and not lost is not that existing at the moment. And helping to contribute to the communities of the United States and the overall stability of the world. I mean because if any place is in war, it affects all of us. Yes, I agree Megan. As the teacher said, we are contributing to so-so done in many ways. As the teacher said rightly, we have been sending remittances that are supporting our families and our relatives back home. We are educating people. We are treating people. We are doing all sort of things to help back home there. And that is a great thing. And to your point, we are contributing to the US as well. You know, as an educator myself here at the University of Vermont, I am contributing to the US and that regard. I am a taxpayer. I am a good citizen. So yes, we are contributing to both places and that makes war a better place in that regard. But again, I always go back and say what if people like teacher Panjul, what if they did not design that program from day one? Yeah. Then we spend 15 years in both refugee camp from Ethiopia to Kenya. And then I come here at the age of 25, 22, 23, 21. There was no education. Where would I have begun? Do you think, as the teacher said, do you think there would be people with master's degree, with PhDs, with professional degrees in law and in medicine? And also, do you think we will have those people? Maybe, but it would have been later on if that were to happen. So they did design a good program. And I was talking to people, I was talking to, I was presenting to another group a few weeks ago, and they were amazed by the quality of education that came with us when we arrived here. And that actually helped us to get it started very quickly. And so we me, I am always thankful to our teachers who founded the program. And if we are fortunate to have one of them be with us, then it gives us an opportunity for him to hear. We have always been telling you our story, but there has never been somebody like him who actually designed the program for us to actually tell their part of the story. And we had that one today. Yeah. Yes, it's sincere. Thank you. Thank you for your work. What are you doing? What do you what work? What are you doing here to visit? What do you who are you visiting in the US here? And what are you doing in South Sudan now? In fact, they had a community meeting. Yeah. And they thought of calling me as a visitor. My days are almost now ending and I'll leave soon. I'll go back to South Sudan. So I was just kind of came here as a visitor. Yeah. Yeah. So we have, as you see, as you call me the former president of board community in the US, we invited three of our eldest, you know, in every four years and every now three years and every three years we change leadership. And when we change leadership, we invite our eldest to come and be part of us as we change the leadership so that they can tell the new leadership some advice. And so we invited three of them, our community leader back home and then he was as punctual teacher, punctual as our teacher. And then we invited a medical doctor to we's also running Alice program back home. So three of them came, the community leader just returned and teacher punctual only has about a week to return. And so that was how they came. And so we met, we changed the leadership. And then they have a little bit of time to visit people around the US and to see some places. So hopefully he might be able to to visit Boston. If you get out of here. Three other places, yeah, because Burlington is beautiful, but but maybe he has been in the Midwest a lot. So maybe visiting city of Boston might be a good experience. And what have you learned from your students? To tell them what have you learned from your students in your life as a teacher? Very good, very good. Here or when I was in the camp, wherever. In fact, when I came here, I was given a chance to give some kind of advice. I felt very happy because they were the very one that facilitated my ticket up to this end. And my stay here, they are taking care of me. They will also take me back to to San Sudan. That is a reward. I'm very happy indeed. It's a reward because I've been terrible. You see this condition. I've been moving with them without payment. And now you took you to dinner. So I felt I have done something. I felt I have done something. And I felt I'm rewarded because this movement was very difficult. Also, I'll go back here with a very good message that our children are doing well, are doing well. I will take the message. They have not lost. They have not lost. They are under the proper care. It doesn't sound like you are ever lost. It sounds like you had very good guidance. We have never been lost. And and and and even as the teachers said, even during the days when we when the name the Lost Boys came about, I had an issue with the name. But then I got up by it and accepted it. We have never been lost in that regard. And and and yes, and and we we we have a good life here. And and we hope that to continue contributing to to the U.S. to so so done and to humanity. And that that that's that is what the educators want is is is when you you get people, when you give people knowledge, the goal is to improve humanity. And and and and I think they they did that to in a very significant way. If I would add to your question. U.S. financial is to us. As as as a professional educator. Is there any other profession better than education? No. To me. No. Because it's my field. And I used to when I was a teacher, I've undergone so many courses about the methodology. I've gone, I attended some courses of psychology. I've attended the management of primary schools in terms of resources and management of the curriculum. So to me it has become my profession and I do see it better than and and and another job. The reason I'm asking that and I will the U.S. teacher for until I will the reason why I ask you this question is and Megan, you would agree with me. Education tend not to be rewarded. In a way, other professions are do you agree with me? Even here in the U.S. Yeah. Public school teachers. In the teacher punctual profession basically is K through 12. If we are talking about American education curriculum you would be expert in K through 12. Yeah. The way the teachers are rewarded compensated here in the U.S. It's not it's not it's not what we think their value or their contribution to the society is that is also the case across the board. And I don't know why this is my problem. Why does the society not reward people who are actually giving knowledge to other people in a way that other professions are in a way that other professions are being rewarded. I always have an issue with that. And so it and I have never found an educator who is not proud of their profession and you have seen the answer from from the teacher here. One last question is since you start teaching in 1978 up to now you have educated a lot of people. It's a lot of people. If you could look at begging Sudan and then all in the refugee camp and internal displays camps and up to now what what are the one things you are proud of? Yeah. In fact, I'm always very proud. I remember I went to the hospital in Juba. I went and found a very long queue. Long line. Long line. Then when I came and stand behind. One of my my boys I thought so me is a medical doctor. He has just ordered workers to come and call me and I was given number one treatment. I'm very proud about that. This is my production. My product. My product. That's fine. Also, when I was invited I was doing the other businesses. But they say that has bring our teacher. That has bring our teacher. I'm very proud. When I came and showed them most of the my very good number of my boys completed universities and degrees and master degrees. Oh, I'm very proud about this. I'm part of that. So I'm very proud about you people. I'm very proud of those who I have taught before the war. Because most of them now are in the doing well in the government of Sudan. So I'm happy on that. I'm very proud about them. Yes. If I could add to the teacher's answer is those of us who are here, those that have been taught in the refugee camp and other places, there are more of them back home than last year. And they are also educated to. Exactly. And they are also contributing to South Sudan. The development of South Sudan. The development of South Sudan. I think that we will end this. This is the end of all of the questions that I have and and and and the only things that I would ask you are the final thing is is if you could go back during during the time when you you you and your colleague started the program to when you came to the U.S. Is there anything you could do different if you were to do it again? Is there anything you could do differently? There was nothing to do apart from education. We our plans and intention was to see you getting the knowledge. When when the country got an independent automatically the the question of development and service delivery comes in. So apart from education you got here. I don't think we would have nothing more than that. Our intention was to get you educated to see you living better life because you were deprived of staying with your families and your relatives. So there's nothing apart from education that was our intention to see you educated and so forth. Yeah. If there are any final question Megan. I think not. I think you're continuing to be an educator now in South Sudan. I'm almost retiring. I'm almost six or six or seven years now. So I'm doing other businesses now at the moment. But we remain always as consultants. When there's need we come and come and advise and so forth on educational life. That's all. And how. And I'm very happy with the channel with the many men of this channel. Thank you for joining us. Thank you very much. It's a golden opportunity for me just to converse with you. And I'm very proud about these children because these are children from my home country. Whenever I see them suffering I always feel bad and when I see them better often good in education and with better services with proper security I feel also very happy because I'm part and the partial of this program. Since since since in 83 up to the moment. I'm also very I'm very happy. I don't know whether I will get this one because these documents completely we didn't have. I don't know whether I will get the one getting one is very important. So thank you to the channel many many men of this channel. Otherwise I have nothing more to add apart from thank you. Thanks to the people of USA and American government for this proper care taken with with my kids and so forth. Thank you. Well, thank you so much. Thank you teacher Panchul and and I assume that you will write a book about this experience. That would be my recommendation. If you write a book about this story I think that people will be interested in reading it and this is this conclude this program. We have just ended interviewing teacher who starts Panchul John Kunyukul who was a teacher for the Lost Boys since the program was started in Ethiopia Penyudu and he just came to visit us and he will be returning home soon. So to Brumman audience and to all of our audience around the world we have you have just had the interview with the teacher and we hope you have enjoyed hearing from him about how they establish the story of the Lost Boys and I as part of the Lost Boys I would take this opportunity to thanks the teacher and his colleague for establishing a very successful program who have given us head start what would be an equivalent of K through 12 education that came to us here to the US and we have been able to actually go to universities because of the quality of that education and we are very thankful to our teacher who is here in the studio and to all his colleague around the world some of them may have passed and some of them were still there we owe them a huge a huge, huge appreciation for that and to conclude of course I always thanks American people and Brumman test for taking care of us we have been successful here and we have built successful life here because of the opportunity that American people have afforded us and I call myself a proud US citizen so this in our program and thank you so much and again my name is I call I went wrong I will end it there and thank you so much Bye Thank you