 I'd like to call the sixth rather get realer meeting of the 2017-2018 Common Council to order with a clerk Please call the roll. Thank you mayor in so many ways Communication begins with mutual respect for all not just a few Communication should inspire others to do their best Thank you for that thought and now could you please call the roll? Yes, there are 16 present with two remotely present So all the persons Andy Ross and Roman drawn are both attending the council remotely We have a special guest tonight to lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance Eagles called Matthew Schmeiser of troop 801 from Grace Episcopal Church is here his Eagle project Was completed on November 12th of 2016 Constructing colorful trellises at the Meals on Wheels Location his project was designed to grow food and help with the bee population and catch the eye of those passing by Congratulations on your project Matthew. Please step up here and lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance. Please stand. I Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America And to the Republic for which it stands One Nation under God Indivisible with liberty and justice for all Next item on the agenda is the approval of the minutes from our last council meeting all the person will Thank you mayor. I make a motion to approve Thank you for that motion in support discussion on the minutes Say none. All those in favor, please signify by saying aye. I Motion passes Next item is public forum turn it over to the city clerk This evening we have five people on public forum first on the list would be Rose Phillips Rose are you here? Rose you want to come on up to the mic here, please? Just hold on just second. We want to get this calling. Okay. Yeah Excuse me Rose can I have your home address, please? Yes My name is Rose Phillips, and I reside at 1628 Spruce Court in the city of Sheboygan Okay, and you will have five minutes. Am I ready to begin? We're ready to begin. Okay? Hello everyone I'm a little bit about myself I chose to pursue an education in the field of science with a desire to better understand the world around me and its Complex interactions my scientific research experience involves the study of effects of invasive shrubs on the understory flora in a mixed Woodland community my work is scheduled to be published in the September issue of a scientific journal called ecological restoration Firstly, I would like to say thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today I speak for myself as well as on behalf of many fellow community members who share my concerns I would like to start this off by asking that we all be honest with each other and recognize that this is a vote for this vote for Anxation is really a vote to move forward with Kohler's golf course proposal Should the annexation be approved the subsequent agendas would include discussions about a conditional use permit that would be necessary to follow Through with the golf course plans. This is merely a stepping stone to Kohler's end goal I would hope that the city of Sheboygan would hold Kohler accountable for complying with all the necessary steps for such a process Should this move forward just as the town of Wilson has thus far as others have previously pointed out I also questioned the contentious method that Kohler has chosen in this annexation pursuit as well as the necessity of it For the past three years the town of Wilson board has been diligently working with Kohler on the golf course proposal No concerns were ever raised regarding the town's fiscal stability municipalities or emergency services Suddenly and secretly Kohler went behind the backs of the people of the town of Wilson to request this annexation that we are here to talk about today Furthermore Kohler bought houses in the annexation path and placed renters in them likely choosing applicants That would provide him a vote in favor of his annexation plans This all seems very manipulative and disingenuous to me I would like to remind you that a certain level of skepticism is healthy and even a sign of intelligence And I ask that you do not immediately buy into Kohler's big ideas and instead choose to look critically at this request and consider the motives behind it I would also like to point out that it was recently brought to my attention that one of the elder men on this council is a Kohler employee and has connections with whistling straights golf course I believe that the ethical and responsible decision for this person would be to step down from voting on this issue Since there appears to be a conflict of interest here I do not believe that Kohler is looking out for his community Rather, he is trying to feed his insatiable appetite for money power and prestige In fact, he will try to knock down anything or anyone that gets in his way 150 acres of old-growth forest ancient wetland ecosystems the town of Wilson people Please don't think that this will be any different The assertion that approving the annexation will benefit the city economically is entirely hinged on the approval of the golf course What happens if the annexation is approved, but the golf course is not how would that affect the city economically? And have you entertained the idea that this could result in an economic disaster if these proposals are approved? Think about these things for a second science explains that gravity exists The soil is permeable that water cycles and that chemical runoff from industry and agriculture are degrading the quality of our waterways Informed with this knowledge we can assert that regardless of what the Kohler company claims Pesticide and fertilizer runoff from this proposed golf course will absolutely occur And this would certainly result in further reduction of the quality of our water when our water water quality is compromised We all pay the price our natural resources are the very thing that sustains us our industries our agricultural systems our Recreational opportunities and our economy are all interconnected with the health of our water Anything that aims to destroy our natural resources is suicide water is the most essential element to life on earth We literally cannot live without it not you not me not even mr. Kohler It is the thing the one thing that all of us in this room and on this planet have in common We need water to survive clean water water that we can trust and it isn't just humans It's everything that lives all life forms require water for survival We cannot simply think about short-term potential monetary gain We must think about long-term effects for the future generations We cannot create water what we have is what we get of the total number of volume of water on earth Only 2.5 percent of that is fresh water and less than 1 percent of that is available to us The Great Lakes basin contains 95 percent of the fresh surface water in North America The lake wide lake wide action and management plan for Lake Michigan was created on behalf of the Great Lakes water quality agreement Which was established between Canada and the US to protect and restore the Great Lakes Ecosystem they made this statement which I think encompasses the aspects I have addressed the significant natural features of Lake Michigan Such as it's encompassing the world's largest collection of freshwater sand dunes Supporting 43 percent of the Great Lakes large sport fishing industry and providing drinking water for over 10 Five minutes. I'm sorry. I have one two more sentences Is it okay if I finish them Just go ahead and quickly do it. Thank you Provides drinking water for 10 million residents and this means billions of dollars not only to the economies of the four states that share the lake But also to the nation as a whole if you care about the financial stability of our city Then you must care about the sustainability of our natural resources as well for this reason and many others I ask that you vote no for the annexation even if it is just for the time being so that the proper research and analysis can be completed Thank you for your time Next on our list is Rebecca Clark Rebecca. Are you here? Rebecca you want to come on up to the mic, please And Rebecca can I have your home address, please? It's 735 fairway Drive in Sheboygan. Okay, and you will have five minutes Here we go Members of the council, I thank you for the opportunity to speak with you tonight about the annexation and zoning in the town of Wilson For the proposed Kohler golf course I feel a lot of weight on my shoulders tonight as there are a lot of people here that also want to speak on this subject I'm sure you feel a great weight about this decision And I don't envy you I know this council works hard to make life better for the citizens of Sheboygan Which is why I hope you will vote no on the annexation and zoning proposal My reasons are not so much about what we know regarding this proposal. It is what we don't know I have concerns that much of the financial studies of this golf course were done by Kohler's firm and have not been Independently validated. Can we be sure that the financial gains to the city of Sheboygan will be accurate or sustainable? Do we know if it's worth the added burden on our fire and police staff? Are we giving up a lot of unknowns for about $79,000 a year in taxes? I have concern about the water infrastructure It is not clear in this current agreement if this course will rely on City water or a well identified in the town of Wilson in the current agreement Kohler maintains rights to their identified Well for three years, but when does this start at the beginning of construction at the end are these years going to be Continuous and I haven't seen the well remediation plan for those living in the area whose residential whales wells could be affected by Potential drawdowns the possible effects on nearby streams and wetlands are also not well addressed I have concerns that the city is getting into a contractual agreement without all the financial Responsibilities being clear if the golf course utilizes city water systems for irrigation Potable water toilets and septic who will pay for the implementation of this new system How will the cost of filling that massive retention pond on the course be covered? Will resident costs go up? Finally, I have concerns that this whole process may be an end run around our neighbors in the town of Wilson If those residents decide to sue over annexation Can we afford those litigation costs and cost to the repute sent a reputation of the friendly city of Shabuigan? I know there was public input at the city planning meeting But why are pieces of information critical to this process only coming out after public records requests? Why are there so many closed-door meetings? It is especially critical in these days that the citizens of Shabuigan feel projects that the city Undertakes are done openly honestly and are not rushed in any way or done behind closed doors I know this council is steeped in finding ways for the city to grow and prosper I am really excited about such ventures as the updates to the downtown The Lake Michigan Marine Reserve and being home to the best surfing in the Midwest I too want Shabuigan to grow and be a great destination for all visitors not just golfers I really hope that our efforts here are for sustainable growth And we are considering not just potential financial benefits and the satisfaction of those who visit here But also the health of our natural resources our reputation and the happiness of those who have lived here for decades I ask you to vote no on annexation more time is needed to fully understand the long-term impacts of this project on our Fiscal bottom line our natural resources and our residents I ask you to think creatively if the city of Shabuigan pitched an alternative views for Kohler's land for instance a Native American Museum of the Great Lakes which was lead certified Accessible affordable and offered unique interpretive displays. This would be an endeavor I feel that our community could get behind as a community We can be proactive in filling needed niches as a tourism destination Versus allowing one vision and one stakeholder to dictate options The Kohler company has done a lot of good for this community And I know that the council and city staff can negotiate with Kohler to hold off Until this project is fully vetted and best for the community as a whole So keep your doors open keep it honest and please vote no. Thank you Thank You Rebecca. Next on the list is Jim Van Akron Jim if you could come on up, please and Jim can I have your home address? It's 432 Lincoln Avenue in Shabuigan, okay, and you'll have five minutes Good evening ladies and gentlemen I've been a lifelong resident of Shabuigan And I'm here to address the proposed annexation of the Kohler company property in order to build a golf course there First of all, I want you to be aware as a former school board member and deputy district attorney I understand the interrelationship between economic growth and property tax revenue But this should be not much this should not be our sole focus I'm not here to vilify any but anyone involved in the process I came here because I oppose this use The use of this gem of a piece of the land for purposes of a golf course The famous Wisconsin conservationist Aldo Leopold once said examine each question in terms of what is ethically and Aesthetically right as well as what is economically expedient The use of this land does not appropriately balance economic consideration with conservation and environmental needs I personally am quite familiar with this land For years the Kohler company graciously allowed public access to this beautiful piece of property From childhood on until Kohler company ended access have hiked this land and observed it in its natural state It is a thing of beauty With its dunes wetlands variety of trees other plant life and wildlife There are a few sand dune lands with forests and stream running through it that exists on this side of Lake Michigan It pained me to hear that as the city government you are not invited to go on the property I highly recommend that before you make any decision about the property. You do ask the Kohler company to allow you to do so Also that you would have an impartial train naturalist with you so they can help educate you on the environment that you are traveling through You cannot truly understand the value of this land as it now exists without doing so To use all the Leopold's words you cannot examine the question of annexation without looking at what is ethically and Aesthetically right along with looking at the economic impact As a Kohler company sustainability website states We believe knowledge empowers choice Before you make any decision about this property you need to know more about this property Go see it Some may say it's only a small project in the world at large What difference does it make if a golf course is built there? This is not the ethical and aesthetic way of dressing of addressing this issue Every degradation to our environment has an impact The cumulative impact makes a difference You have an opportunity here to act in a progressive manner and Address the impact this golf course has in our environment We do we all want to do the right thing for our environment and perhaps you do in many ways such as recycle Pick up trash plant trees This is a real environmental choice for you as council members Do not think of this as purely and in economic terms You can make a positive difference in this community by voting no on this proposed annexation and development agreement As I said before I'm not here to vilify any party in this matter Through my professional Responsibilities and volunteer activities. I recognize that the many good works the Kohler company and family have provided to this community and beyond My point is this is the wrong project for this piece of land The Kohler company is very creative and capable of finding a more appropriate project for this land I'm convinced that a golf course is an abuse of this land No matter what environmental accommodations a Kohler company says it is making in its plan for the land It is still a golf course with fairways greens buildings parking lots and roads Where a natural environment previously existed? As as Leopold states we abuse land because we regard it as a commodity belonging to us When we see land as a community to which we belong We may begin to use it with love and respect I like quotes and my final comment is another quote from the Kohler sustainability web page This is a post that they made on Earth Day. They ask what are you doing to make a positive difference this Earth Day? It goes on to say that Kohler believes that Earth Day is every day So the question for you as a city council this Earth Day in other words today is what are you going to do to? Make a positive difference. Thank you. Thank you, Jim next on the list is dr. Ray Dr. Ray here Dr. Ray Can I have your name, please? Greg gross GR ose your address great and six six eight three Meadowbrook Lane Sheboygan Okay, you will have five minutes sir. Okay. Thank you. My name is dr. Greg gross I'm the chief medical officer for purveyor health in Sheboygan I'm speaking on a on behalf of purveyor health, but also on behalf of dr. Ashok Rai who is not able to make it for the comments tonight Dr. Rai writes thank you for the opportunity to offer my comments to the city council regarding the annexation of property Which includes the proposed Kohler golf course property to the city of Sheboygan? Dr. Rai is the president and the CEO of purveyor health as purveyor health We are northeast, Wisconsin's largest physician-owned multi-specialty group More than a quarter of our company is located here in Sheboygan County and Dr. Rai wishes to Support his support the project and the proposed annexation Our group of purveyor health has directly witnessed the positive impact economically of the expansion of destination Kohler properties Their expansion especially in the realm of golf has provided jobs increased tourism spending in our community and this has helped purveyor health attract potential new employees into the area We truly appreciate the past and ongoing investments of the Kohler company that has been made in this community And we believe this project has significant potential for the city of Sheboygan and it will add to its past successes that we've experienced As a medical practice purveyor health believes in the ongoing economic development of the city of Sheboygan The proposed annexation will expand the city's tax base Create new local jobs and make Sheboygan a more desirable place for both residents and visitors alike Just as important to us at purveyor health is the thorough manner in which the proposed golf course is thoughtfully addressed potential environmental issues We have a passion for the environment 50% of the common stock at purveyor is owned by hospital sisters health system locally St. Nicholas Hospital, which is a Franciscan based ministry Through our partners and their dedication to st. Francis. We have learned a great appreciation for the environment We demonstrate that appreciation in multiple ways from our own construction processes Our aggressive management of electrical resources and an extensive recycling program It is through that lens and the many benefits to the city that we have reviewed this project And we find it to be extremely thorough in its approach All of our major concerns around the impact to the environment have been answered in a thorough manner and we see many benefits for the city of Sheboygan In summary we support the project and the proposed annexation and Respectively encourage the city of Sheboygan Common Council to approve the related matters before you today It is our belief that the project is good for purveyor health Good for the city of Sheboygan and good for the region that we all call home Thank you. Thank you, Greg Next on the list and last on the list would be David Aldeig is David here or we'll go get David He may be in the other room Hi, David. Could you give me your home address, please? Sorry, could you give me your home address, please? Oh, sure 4904 Barenwood Way Sheboygan And you will have five minutes, sir. Okay I'm Dave Aldeig the chairman of the Sheboygan County Economic Development Corporation I'm representing our organization as a supporter of the proposed Kohler Company golf course project Also proposed to be on the city's cell site Our board consisting of 32 business and economic leaders Representing all the municipalities of our county voted overwhelmingly to support this project We support positive economic development in our community and this project is a great example of that As well as being consistent with our mission statement The project is stated will bring annual revenue of six and a half million dollars in the Sheboygan County As well as a large number of full and part-time jobs The tax revenue which can be used for countless needs such as road repairs infrastructure improvements School improvements, etc. Is estimated to be four hundred and seventy five thousand dollars per year We as Sheboygan County residents watch with great pride as major TV networks Showcase the Kohler Kohler golf courses that hosted several PGA championships as well as two US women's opens We also watched national coverage as recently as this past week of the US Open played at Aaron Hills Another great golf course in our state At the onset of the tournament coverage There was a feature piece on the evolution of golf in the state of Wisconsin and a Timeline that stated that the Kohler golf courses put the state on the map Toward being a major golf destination and host of major golf tournaments The piece ended stating that now Wisconsin has elevated itself to the number two Golf destination in the entire United States and also mentioned we'd likely be number one if not for our winter weather The exposure of a major golf event is known to create a spike in tourism dollars For a continued period of time after the tournament leaves, which is another added benefit of national exposure and reputation We now have an opportunity to add To that positive exposure of our wonderful community our beautiful Lake World-class golf courses and restaurants and resorts We can all show we can also showcase our people honest hard-working friendly and proud of our community The Common Council has a chance to make this project a reality for our community This is an opportunity that we are fortunate to have and they don't come very often in Closing we believe this project will be a benefit to not only Sheboygan, but Sheboygan County It would be a shame to have a loud minority influence the outcome of this project Just because they may not agree with it when the facts suggest otherwise We're blessed as a county to have many companies such as the Kohler company who are willing to reinvest in the community They call home If you stop about what we would not have without their investment our community would not be what it is today Today we are something better a true destination to raise the family a wonderful place to retire to Vacation destination and we're only going to get better together Thank you for your time and consideration. Thank you, David. That's it for this evening public forum Thank you very much. We're going to skip the mayor's announcements because of the items on our agenda tonight At this time, I'd like to entertain a motion from all the person wolf on the hearing that we have before us Make a motion to close the hearing No, no, we need a motion on the Motion to approve It's a motion to accept and file all or Yes, I would move to open the hearing on the proposed SR 5 zoning with the following guidelines number one the purpose of the public input session is to hear testimony as it relates to postponing zoning to the suburban residential 5 Classification number two person speaking be limited to three minutes for their comments Because because we have a full agenda Number three for the public record, please state your name your address and whether you are You are city of Sheboygan resident or a town of Wilson resident the name the names of who's attending Who checked that they are wanted to provide public input at the meeting will be called first After the group the chair will ask if anyone else would like to provide input if you wish to speak Please raise your hand and beat to be recognized after being recognized Please come to the podium and state your name your address and whether you are a city of Sheboygan resident or a town of Wilson resident During a hearing the city council only receives citizen input and does not respond or debate. Thank you Have a motion in a second Hearing is number four of 17 18 pursuant to the notice published and the personal notices Sent out by the city clerk There's a hearing scheduled for this evening to amend the city zoning official map to establish use district classification of property Being the entire area included in the annexation petition to class suburban residential 5 I'd like to add Pelle check to give us a brief explanation of the SR 5 suburban residential classification so according to the city's zoning ordinance this district is Intended to permit development which has moderate density in a suburban community character Density and intensity standards for this district are designed to ensure that SR 5 district shall serve as a designation Which preserves and protects the suburban Residential community character of its area the district provides for permanent protection of moderate density residential area for those who live in a suburban residential environment and who retain enough land with their residents and or in development to ensure that the Suburban community character is maintained as long as SR 5 designation is retained This zoning classification is the least dense of the zoning classification. So if you look at the city's Zoning map, you'll see that SR 3 Primarily picks up kind of the more outside the core areas and then the next layer if you will is the SR 5 zoning designation which is really consistent to What's proposed tonight into the land uses and the zoning that's already in the city limits in this area? So the staff had recommended that it made sense as the SR 5 zoning and that's the zoning That would fit the character of this area. So if there's any questions on that I'd be happy from the council I'd be happy to answer them. Thank you very much Chad Okay, we'll begin the calling up the people who signed up to speak the first one up is Claudia Bricks and Steve Cassidy are on deck with Claudia. Please come to the podium and Steve you can use the on-deck chair up here Well, I'll have it going if you want Somebody Chad do you want to pull the podium out closer there so they can see the timer? Yeah, we're gonna use the one that I've got So you see where the timer will be It's up on that screen and then it'll show you when the three minutes are out. Thank you My name is Claudia Bricks. I live at 314 Pioneer Road in the town of Wilson in with my shabuigan address I'm trying to understand this whole zoning All the wax that had been thrown at us and I'm not quite sure that I understand it But I would like to give a little background of where I have come from and where we are Kind of headed three years ago I and several others found with the friends of the Black River Forest Whose mission is to oppose the construction of a golf course in the Black River Forest and to promote the Preservation of the integrity of that river its wetlands the adjoining Lake Michigan shore as an ecological hole How that fits into city zoning? I'm not quite sure We started by writing kind letters to Herb Kohler asking him not to destroy this wonderful land Claudia again We're dressing SR 5 so I'm getting to that Please get to it. Okay with an unnecessary golf course. No response As the word got out our small group quickly grew to many others from around the country We have over 8,000 signatures on our petition We've held fundraisers to hire experts to understand what's happening with this land We've hired attorneys to guide us through this complex process that's involved with all of the Zoning ordinances the permits and the applications that are needed for this golf course And as I understand it the city wants to zone this into SR 5 Which makes? Not a lot of sense to me because the golf course Doesn't fit into that In those three years, we've we've twice gone to Madison. We've spoken to DNR our legislators We've been regular attendees at our own town board meetings to understand zoning ordinances We've spoken at all public hearings written many letters sent out hundreds of emails to form everyone about the short and long-term Problems with this project despite all of this the process we wanted to be transparent and ethical as possible we've discovered that really matters is big money big power and big influence and Sitting here tonight. I see lots of people that are concerned about this zoning ordinance And I'm here to say that to vote no for this until you've had a chance to study this and Understand what we at the Friends of the Black River Forest have been looking at for the last three years You've been looking at it for one month So I asked you to vote no on this. It's the wrong place for a golf course and It's wrong that the balloon on the string annexation has been pushed through despite the Wishes of the town of Wilson residents. There are many other uses for this property And I would encourage this body to take a look at those. Thank you Steve Cassidy is next and James tober, please come up to the on-deck side James tober Tobin, sorry Mr. Cassidy, thank you mayor. Good evening common counsel. My name is Steve Cassidy I'm the vice president of technical services for Kohler company speaking on behalf of the company with property at 1739 North 6th Street in the city of Sheboygan Thank you for the opportunity to provide input pertaining to the establishment of zoning for The property this evening at this point some city zoning classification has to be as I signed For our proposed golf course site privately owned golf courses are considered conditional uses or outdoor institutional uses in all city of Sheboygan zoning districts So the classification of the annexed territory If approved this evening Almost any of the zoning districts could work for this project However, SR 5 zoning ensures that the existing homes Remain permitted uses and do not become non-conforming uses within the applied area SR 5 is consistent with the city's comprehensive plan Including the plan use map and the city's comprehensive outdoor recreation plan Furthermore, it allows the city to grow and it creates significant new tax revenues and new employment opportunities in the city of Sheboygan By facilitating the development of other vacant land Including land currently owned by the city for much needed housing We respectfully encourage your support for the SR 5 zoning before you today And we look forward to a positive working relationship with the city in the months and years ahead Thank you again for your consideration. I'm available to respond to any questions the council members might have I'm sorry, that's not allowed It's been given it's been given and we're done with that Any other questions from the council comment council? Thank you very much Mr. Tobin is next and Tom Stelb is on deck My name is James Tobin at over 317 Pioneer Road It's in the town of Wilson close to the fire department 200 yards from Lake Michigan and a short walk from the northern boundary of the color land I have just a couple of comments pertinent to the zoning. First of all, I don't know how I'm not aware. I don't know how you can be talking about Zoning of land you don't own yet and everything I want to say Relates to an old maximum. Don't count your chickens before they're hatched. First of all, you don't have it yet Even if you pass this conversation tonight, there will surely be a lawsuit from the town and I spoke to Lee Town's attorney after a meeting and he didn't want to say very much But he did say that of the cases that have been Litigated on these say balloon and a string Hypopaticization, which is a hostile takeover The results have been mixed so you have by no means assured of winning such a lawsuit second the town of Wilson has been waiting for years for the color companies to complete all of the Details needed to get the permits that were essential for a golf course through the DNR Mr. Tobin, excuse me, but you need to bring your comments to the SR 5 zoning That's what we're having a hearing for not the not all the other items related to a golf course This is a hearing for the zoning that would be attached to the parcel if it's a next by the city Please bring your comments to that subject. I don't know how you can do a zone if you don't own it my other point was has to do with the What you have to go through to own it you need to get the permits of the color company is very slow to provide the detailed information the DNR and the Let me grab energy has been demanding it seems to be this highly relevant to your zoning question How can you zone something that is not yet approved and you can't be approved until all the data goes through? So I would beg of you to hold off on any decisions until you have got this all clear One more point if you actually do succeed in getting this golf course And I believe they're conditional units things related and this is clearly matter of zoning Pleased to not allow them to block the public right-of-way Which is below the high water mark on the beach as I understand they have not complied with this up at Hoi Haven So make sure they don't have a big set of rocks out into the water. Thank you very much Okay, mr. Stelb is up next and very fetish is on deck now the public forum that was held earlier was a more general Hearing and had a more wide-ranging opportunity for people to speak. This is a hearing on the SR 5 zoning Please keep your comments to the zoning issue. Can I include annexation comments in along with that? Yes? All right, my name is Tom Stelb I'm a town of Wilson supervisor and I live at 814 Indian Mount Road in the town of Wilson And I am a town of Wilson resident and I'm here to ask that you consider voting against the annexation You should have received an email from the town chairman John Eamon explaining the town's position on this I'm also wondering why this is to be zoned SR 5 that the designation doesn't seem to fit When I went for I went for a walk around my neighborhood and asked the number of town residents if they were in favor of or Against the annexation and everyone that I had talked to where it was definitely against it But I had Understand that there's some comments from an alderman that he had also discussed that Informal poll with town residents and that he had found many of that were for it My own informal poll shows otherwise And a question I have to ask is this is what Riverdale be an annexed in are they gonna have to How's it gonna work with Riverdale? They're gonna have to have to lick the licenses for their golf course They're already upset that your taxes are gonna be going up and the other land owners that are on Involuntarily being annexed into the city are concerned about their taxes going up It's unfair to those owners who are being involuntarily annexed into the city Has the letter that explains to you that the annexation will be problematic for both communities I believe that you need to take a step back slow down and take a good look at the issues and problems that will Be created with this proposal the DOA reports sites the fractured lines between the city and town At at the borders with the fractured town lines Those annexations at that time were of the unanimous type of annexations where the land owners agree to annex into the city Those that wanted to go into the city did those that did not didn't this created the bordered lines that exist today To compare to those annexation lines that created and the lines created by them to the issue at hand today Is comparing apples to oranges? Thanks Mary Fetish is up and Debbie Desmond is on deck My name is Mary Fetish. I live at 5631 driftwood Lane. I am going to get To the point of annexing of zoning so I'd appreciate being able to get to that point Good evening in a response from one alderman to a letter of mine The alderman wrote that he understood this could become an emotional issue for some But this was the only way sheboygan could grow an emotional issue for some Our group friends of the Black River Forest follows the many environmental crises occurring now throughout the state Right now there are nervous parents wondering if their children will recover from the fecal contamination in their water They believe that someone should have protected them. They are emotional Every one of our state's crises started I'm getting there started with someone approving a permit and allowing it to go unregulated each local government could Stop these Contaminations that are going on in the state. It starts with you here You are the first tier of government. We the people there isn't anything lower We start here with you making decisions at the very basic level of government your choice tonight Is to allow your constituents and the zoning to be run by one person's desire and money? Or you could say in the interest of the public this decision of zoning and annexation must be made with full information Conducted ethically and legally Now this council and the public know some of what has gone on behind closed doors one seemingly small But insignificant peace Before presenting you with a PowerPoint on the Kohler project one of your city planners Mistress Peleshek allowed Kohler's attorney to strike a city request that sheboygan as a location would be mentioned and all future Advertising was mr. Peleshek acting for the city or for the Kohler company We have spoken to longtime residents of our town who are brought to tears because they don't understand how this could happen to them How three people poised strategically by the Kohler company could make a decision for a town they had lived in all their life They are emotional We have residents planning to sell their homes in Wilson rather than watch the park beat watch the park beaches and lakeshore Become unswimmable like hike a bay they are emotional Mr. Marvin Summers one condition in selling his land to Kohler for whistling straights Was that the land he had enjoyed for generations the view of the lake not be blocked When an 800 foot long berm was constructed mr. Summers said to the DNR Herb Kohler shook on it with me Mr. Kohler miss. I'm sorry mr. Summers was emotional After hearing from a DNR on April 7th that it should explore other alternatives and complete the wetland application Kohler pulled its nuclear area time is up. I Urge you to marry your time is up zoning and To vote against annexation, please take the ethical stance. Thank you Debbie does Melinda's up next and Matt four is on deck. I live at 1704 North 35th Street Sheboygan, Wisconsin Okay With little warning and at 4 p.m. We fellow ecologists had a considerable turnout at the city plan Commission's public hearing on May 30th Concerning the annexation to the city of Sheboygan of a black river forest currently nestled within the town of Wilson Now tonight we are told that the public hearing is to be only about the rezoning of a black river forest That this is not about Kohler's plan to build a golf course where currently a thriving forest exists The city wants to fragment the issues in spite of the fact that they are all related Just as Kohler's golf course project and annexation will fragment the town of Wilson We are also told that the vote for both the annexation and the rezoning of a black river forest will take place tonight Allowing no time for the common council to reflect upon or even digest any of the public input or anything else related to these serious issues a Quick decision is a bad decision if a decision is a good one It can wait until all of the necessary information has been presented and studied a wise decision is one that takes Everyone into consideration not just the rich and powerful a landowners rights Stop where other landowners rights start so a rezoning should consider all of the neighbors of the black river forest Not just Kohler's current whim a rezoning needs to be it needs to consider the repercussions of the proposed use of the property To the larger community. I am sorry. We cannot ignore the elephant in the room Which is the proposed use of the property a golf course the very reason for the rezoning? This annexation and rezoning is so that Kohler can bypass necessary responsible oversight To safeguard our water and air and to prevent the outright destruction of a full-fledged forest Sand dunes Indian mounds migratory flyway and a wildlife refuge Serious citizen objections are only allowed in three-minute sound bites. This hostile annexation is not in Collaboration with the town of Wilson. They are ignored the rezoning is being considered in spite of citizen objection And too soon for widespread information and wise choices to be made So I beg of you, please delay this vote or just vote no to another misuse of land another polluting golf course Vote yes to clean air potable water a bio divorce for us and intact Indian mounds and sand dunes By the way, why does Kohler get to disturb the sand dunes? Whereas at Terry Andrew Park. We are told to stand the boardwalk So as not to disturb these rare formations is this yet again another double standard I also request that Henry Nelson recuse himself for this vote as he had originally planned because he is a Kohler employee And he works at Kohlers whistling streets golf course. He doesn't dare vote. Excuse me. Your time is up. Thank you Matt four is up next and Jean Zabrowski is on deck Hello, my name is Matt four five five two three short crestrow a ton of Wilson I'm also a ton of Wilson firefighter And I was brought up to discuss the fact that the discussion was made who could provide better services in regards to the annexation and the Rezoning first of all the town of Wilson. This would be very quick. We have 13 full-time firefighters two engines water tender brush truck and other by no means Can definitely support this community as far as the golf course is concerned the shawigan city on the other hand As recently as May 2017 Sir, could you please take your comments to the SR five zoning the part of that is this Kohler's documentation and your documentation of the state you submitted that the service could better be provided by the city of Sheboygan versus the town of Wilson. That's what I'm addressing So this is not way to press the city leaders continue wrestling with staffing shortages in the Sheboygan fire department You're looking at an independent audit to reduce the number of stations I don't know how the city of Sheboygan to be said to do that Also the mutual aid box learn system means that our community has to support yours just like yours has to support mine If you want to cut me off just one thing I'm asking what that means that I have seven children I live in the town of Wilson, but if the call comes through I'll give my life. I'll support your community I'm asking you do that same thing for me and support mine my body. No, thank you Jane Zabrowski is next and Eric Thielen is on deck My name is Jane Zabrowski and I'm a resident of the town of Wilson and a member of the town's ad hoc committee for their 20 year comprehensive plan The town's general use map shows the same type of future land uses as the city's land use map for the Kohler lamp in Park and Open space not residential This property was never slated to become SR five zoning until the Kohler proposed annexation was presented The issue before you here is SR five zoning, but we all know it's about much more than this This is about one property owner taking what he wants from the entire town of Wilson and bidding the city to help him do so The town of Wilson may be smaller than the city, but we have rights also and we don't agree with SR five zoning Town residents are the one who will surround the golf course and know we do not want to be annexed to the city or zoned The city is the wrong local government to do the permit review of the golf course the proposed Annexation and zoning would create a situation where a more distant government makes decisions with potential to create large negative Impacts on residents who don't reside in the city Please consider the rights of Wilson residents who are being forced to annex and suffer this zoning To the city against their wishes should they give up their rights for the demands of one person? This is a hostile annexation attempt manipulated by Kohler and always possible to get what they want It's a sad day for the town of Wilson and for the city if the city decides Intergovernmental cooperation and being a good neighbor is not necessary by simply rezoning to SR five The story then becomes one of how men with one man with power got his way bought two houses got control over the future of an entire town One man destroying 75 percent of a force filling in wetlands polluting Lake, Michigan stealing away our state park Because he says it's utilize little utilize that area by the public And rezoning one powerful man once you say well, there's all their powerful people that have come from Sheboygan Todd Godshell educated at Harvard grew accompanied over 1200 employees died recently at the age of 56 His accomplishments in the Sheboygan press were many but one statement spoke volumes about the type of man He was one powerful sentence that said he believed economic innovation Did not have to come at the cost of our environment. I asked you to do the right thing I asked you to believe that economic innovation does not have to come at the cost of our environment I asked you to let the town of Wilson continue to review this proposed project. I asked you to vote against the proposed zoning. Thank you Eric felon is up next in easily Desmond is on deck Eric felon 4933 ever green drive town of Wilson. I'm mindful that I'm not your constituent So I'm particularly grateful. You're willing to hear what I have to say It goes without saying that the Kohler family has done a lot for folks in Trubogan County It bears mentioning as well that the people in this part of Wisconsin have done a lot for the Kohler company By providing a tremendous workforce by being good stewards of the natural and economic resources here and by making this part of Wisconsin an attractive place to live and work if Sheboygan is a great place to visit live That's due in no small part to the fact that neighbors like those in Wilson and Mosul are friendly and welcoming That said the Kohler company typically does a first-class job with their projects And if they win approval from the relevant agencies and stakeholders I expect they'll do a first-class job with the golf course as well That is precisely why it is so hard for me to understand why the Kohler company has not submitted adequately fleshed out applications to the Army Corps or the DNR the DNR has made it clear that the changes in the plan must be made now in order To satisfy the basic statutory requirements that any other Property owner would have to meet among other things the application isn't specific enough for informed public comment But instead of doing the necessary diligence to get those application those permit applications squared away The developer is initiated a hostile annexation bid and presumptive zoning request that essentially loads the permitting problem under your shoulders Without giving you the kind of details that you would require of any other Property owner for my part. I'm here because my wife and I love our home in the town of Wilson And we don't want to see this project go forward unless our elected representatives have an opportunity to weigh in on its Collateral effects that's problematic because the hostile annexation means that those of us who are closest to ground zero have no voice in the zoning question Equally bad for our shabuigan neighbors is that you folks will have to devote time and resources to the legal challenges to the annexation the zoning and permitting and You'll be working in the dark because until the developer does a better job on those permit applications The collateral effects cannot be known and there is no basis for informed public comment Finally I urge the council to table the zoning matter until the developer has met the same planning and permitting Obligations required of every other property owner. There is no Downside to waiting for Kohler to do its due diligence They aren't going anywhere and neither is the property in question Thanks He's Lee does more than his next and Lee trotter is on deck All right, my name is a these a demura and I live at 1704 North 35th Street in the city of shabuigan so I want to I want to get to the Problem at hand here is that you have an annexation in your zoning ordinance 15-5 that you are elected and sworn in to follow you have a Section in there about annexations containing wetland shorelands and pursuant to section 59 97 of the Wisconsin statutes any annexations of lands after May 7th 1982 which lie within wetland shorelands as defined herein shall be governed by the provisions of the shabuigan County Shoreland zoning ordinance until such time that the city adopts an ordinance which is at least as restrictive as the shabuigan County shoreland zoning ordinance and I can tell you that SR5 zoning is not as restrictive as the shabuigan County shoreland zoning ordinance and the purpose of this the purpose of the shoreland Zoning ordinance and this would fall under a shoreland wetland district is to maintain self-safe and healthful Conditions to prevent water pollution to protect fish spawning grounds and wildlife habitat to preserve shore cover and natural beauty and To control building and development in wetlands whenever possible Development of wetlands should be limited when development is permitted It should occur in a manner that minimizes the adverse impacts upon the wetland Wetlands are sold unsuitable as building sites for the following reasons on site sewage disposal systems will not function because of high Groundwater water supplies are often polluted by septic tank waste that have not been adequately absorbed and purified by the soil Foundations roads and other pavements crack due to poor support the Capabilities and frost action flooding is common spring and other times of high water Wetlands provide fish spawning grounds and wildlife habitat and the natural plant and animal communities Fonda wetlands provide ecological balance to a water course Wetlands serve as water storage areas and therefore minimize flooding and costly flooding damages and wetlands Biologically treat and purify water and therefore for prevent water pollution now on the Sheboygan County website They have this zoning ordinance the Sheboygan County shoreland zoning ordinance and they have a bunch of permitted uses Conditional uses special uses you name it and under none of that Is there anything about a golf course under any zoning you are You were sworn into office to follow The zoning in your own city the city of Sheboygan and this is the annexation Containing wetland shorelands that is related to your own zoning ordinance 15-5 So I suggest you look over that ordinance and look at the Sheboygan County Website and that should provide your answer. No golf course can be on that land. Thank you Lee Trotter is next and Rose Phillips is on deck I'm Lee Trotter. I am a resident of the city of Sheboygan and a professional geologist Had a long career with the United States Geological Survey Annexation of a piece of property assumes They will go with the city water supply normally I would imagine some of the profits You are anticipating would have to do with selling water. I Have used my extensive knowledge of groundwater chemistry and to and flow to consult on Subjects pertaining to the golf course plans up till now. We really need to have the comments come to the issue of the zoning But I just said I'm sorry. I'll say it again annexation the zoning Assumes city water supply. Is that not true? There will be water supply. Yes, okay Well, it's not part of the zoning So in other words the zone has nothing to do with where the water comes from correct Okay Well, then I guess I don't have to say too much other than The polar plans have gone several different directions and I wouldn't trust that it's going to end up with city water supply Thank you Rose Phillips is next Okay Next is Bell Reagan's and Rebecca Clark is on deck. Okay, then Dave all day. He spoke already Gina Segworth is on deck. Please go ahead Good evening, and thank you for giving us the chance to share our voice and concerns about this project this zoning decision I'm Bell Regans. I live at 49 33 evergreen in the town of Wilson. I'm a new resident to the town of Wilson I was struck tonight by a representative of the Kohler Who went talking about this zoning decision said he looks forward to developing a positive relationship With the people of the city of Sheboygan And yet what have we heard tonight? You've heard abundantly from the people of Wilson and how they feel stepped upon How they feel discredited How the Kohler company did an end run around them? How hurt they feel how disappointed they feel how disenfranchised how they feel So when you consider entering this zoning decision in this partnership The city of Sheboygan, do you think the Kohler is going to treat you any differently? I'm an industrial organizational psychologist and I can tell you one thing The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior Look at the way the Kohler has approached this decision Instead of reaching out with good faith. They've done an end run They're romancing you now. They're telling you all the positives But you know that for every positive there's a negative You know that something sounds too good to be true it is But you don't know the cost yet They haven't done the analysis. They're holding back that information for the zoning decision even So you don't know but you'll find out When the algae blooms and the lawsuits happen, how do you think Kohler is going to treat you? Do you think they're going to treat you any differently than how they treated the people of the city of Wilson, town of Wilson? You have a tiger by the tail tigers don't change the stripes Segworth is next Nancy. This gardens is on deck. Hi. I'm Gina Segworth. I live at 6430 cloverleaf court in the town of Wilson Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you tonight. I'm not here to speak about the golf course I imagine you've heard enough about that I'm here specifically about the proposed annexation of my dad's house. He resides at 1314 stall road My dad is 83 years old and his difficulty speaking. So he asked me to come on his behalf When we first heard about the proposed annexation We considered it and determined that annexation has zero benefit for my dad His taxes would rise significantly and the benefits the city provides to its to its residents either wouldn't apply to him Or would not be any improvement He has no need for city water. I have safety concerns regarding emergency services Will there be confusion regarding who are his first responders? The value of his home may drop not too many people want to live in the town of Wilson pay city taxes and get no benefits for Their tax dollars. We decided he wouldn't sign the petition and that would be the end of it Unfortunately, we now understand the controversial process being used and realize that he may have no choice It can be forced upon him without his consent It is beyond our comprehension that this can happen when he has lived on this land for over 50 years How can he not have the right to decline this offer? I think the idea that he is losing control is worse than the financial hardship and inconvenience it will create Proponents of the annexation tell me that his neighbors voted for it However, his neighbors to the east west north and south are not being annexed Because of the crazy selection of properties. I understand some residents Perhaps some renters or some even home owners did sign the petition for annexation Annexed them. I don't begrudge them to have the right over their land However, they should not have the right to dictate my dad's land I have been told that this controversial process may be legal and that legal requirements may have been met I would respectfully request you ask yourself a few questions before you vote Although perhaps legal is it moral? Is it fair and just to tell an 83 year old man who has lived in his house for over 50 years? Paid his taxes been a good citizen and neighbor that he has no say over such a matter Will you be proud to use him as a pawn to further expedite a large corporation or company's business plan? Does the city of Sheboygan really need to expand itself by forcing residents into it against their will or with hostility? If you have answered no to any of these questions, please vote no to this annexation. Thank you Nancy disjardins is next and James Schusler is on deck It's Nancy Desjardins 706 Panther Avenue town of Wilson Supervisor It was unbelievable to see the City Plan Commission unanimously approve the annexation motion with absolutely no discussion The pleasing concerns of over 40 city and town of Wilson residents seem to be endured ignored and blown off by the plan Commission With this annexation and rezone of the town of Wilson Land to the city of Sheboygan tied to the Kohler golf course May I point out that there's a tremendous amount of information and research compiled by the town of Wilson over several years? It is relevant and it is authoritative and it has comes from valuable sources This material has been made available to you Just what is your job if it is not to review this type of information on behalf of your trusting constituents to make an appropriate informed decision? The City Plan Commission decision appeared to be a knee-jerk decision based on dollars and increased tax base Hopefully your decision at the City Council level will reflect the tremendous amount of new information shared with you recently regarding the many troublesome irregularities by Kohler in this process of Anxation and rezone and give you some serious pause. I assure you Wilson is very aware of these many troublesome Irregularities exposed predominantly through FOIA request on ethical practices and misrepresented backdoor negotiations Will set you up for failure later in a different venue Just what is the high-pressure rush to this rezoning an axe and annexation? You have months to consider this to make an informed decision that you can defend with taxpayers and beyond Research comes at a high cost yet the town of Wilson has compiled significant research and made it available to you reading it Will give you great pause? Ignoring it will haunt you later The timeline for this proposed annexation and rezone is only a few pressured weeks The need is for Kohler to push this project to completion before more of their tactics are uncovered and Closer by closer scrutiny and revealed to you. Does this pressure not sound a loud alarm? Wilson through its town board has continued to publish yet in good faith even hiring consultants of Kohler's choice and Continuing to approve a liquor license that has been sitting unused for going on for years Yet it seems impatience and difficulty in complying with a grading plan on wetland and dunes as well as The Army Corps of Engineer and the DNR permits have led to Kohler to look for other options If these permits are not approved, you will have altered a town and heard its residents for what? medium-density SR 5 housing is an inappropriate and damaging use of the land to the ever cited Property rights not the property rights of mr. Kohler But those whom you appear to completely ignore the permitted uses of the town of Wilson residents Their property rights. Thank you, and please vote no on this Contrived one-man personal agenda annexation and reason Jim shusler is up and scott metula is on deck Good evening. Uh, I send along our respects from Dane Chekalinska our director at shiboyne county economic development. He would love to have been here tonight, but sometime Today he became the father of a new son new resident here in the city shiboygan and His entire family is doing well happy to pinch hit in his absence to To endorse the zone the proper zoning of of this proposed golf golf course And on behalf of shiboyne county economic development The zoning certainly provides great opportunity to extend the Hospitality cluster that we have in shiboygan county The economic study for the proposed golf course reveals the creation of over 200 jobs and over 20 million dollars in economic activity When completed the course will create a million dollars in new tax revenue and lack local tax revenues as well Um rezoning will also allow sast to become the uh benefactor of another hundred thousand dollars per year And the zoning will also, uh produce a projected 22,000 additional room nights per year Locally that room tax will allow us to continue to market the area And uh and grow that that tourism cluster Jim could you please get your comments on the zoning? I appreciate it um Establishing zoning uh as a golf course Will certainly help the development of golf amenities which have been good for a local economy And the zoning uh can only help to draw additional revenue to the area The collars own the land And the land with a conditional use permit Would certainly serve as a golf course I think we can only look to whistling straights up in the town of mozal Which is established and now as a golf course and look at the kind of impact that that is having to our economy I think it's uh, I think it's important to know With erin hills this past weekend Is reported in part six of the news story on the making of erin hills That uh the family was actually the collars were actually offered an opportunity to buy erin hills They committed to continue to develop that golf cluster here So with proper zoning, uh this golf course will show that kind of commitment back to them I think that kind of fidelity is good for shabuigan county The last thing that I want to point out is is that with the development of this golf course Which certainly represents highest and best use for this uh for this land Will allow us to continue to develop additional housing Shabuigan county needs single family housing desperately Our lack of inventory has caused housing sales in manitowal county and ozaki county and an economic development That's frustrating that we don't get to take advantage of the entire part of growth that comes from the success of our companies So shabuigan county economic development strongly encourages Establishing proper zoning so that we can continue to grow the hospitality portion of our county. Thank you Scott matulah is up next and uh, joanne freedman is on deck My name is scott matulah My address is 1416 north fifth street in shabuigan, wisconsin I'm the city of shabuigan resident. I'm a city of shabuigan small business owner and i'm an architect With that in mind I should be for this because maybe it would be a project for me Maybe it's some sort of development that'll be good, but I can't in any way support this The best zoning for this land we do not have that right now I was looking at the zoning map in the other room Maywood park is a suburban residential area I don't see us looking at turning that into a golf course. I think there'd be an uproar if that happened This zoning should be some sort of hybrid Conservation zone or some sort of planned development that would preserve the national Natural effects of this land that would not allow for the development and distraction of rare natural environment This land should not be developed for home subdivisions or develop manicured golf course This land should be developed for future generations of animals plants and humans Zoning rules were historically enacted to protect neighbors Zoning is there so we don't have industrial issues next to housing areas So we don't have uh, we don't put apartment complexes in the middle of parks or put a factory Right on the lake shore beach Zoning provides protection for homeowners and businesses alike How could any of our zoning protect our neighbors at the town of wilson around this site? This isn't Isn't this similar to chicago pollution coming up to wisconsin and having no control over it I hear a lot of people elected officials and economic organizations complaining about that because they have no control over it Except now it's the city of shabuigan polluting the town of wilson I don't want to be a citizen that is polluting my neighbor. Thank you Joanne Friedman is next and greg gross is on deck Okay, i'm joanne freedman. I live at w6654 county trunk road v in cascade, wisconsin And the reason why I feel that you should vote no and oppose this is because what we have at stake Is our dignity the dignity of the city of shabuigan The dignity of the county of shabuigan and the dignity of the colder family What we as human beings will be leaving behind you need to bring your comments to the zoning for this parcel That's exactly what i'm talking about I'm talking about the zoning for this parcel and the way that it's being done is going to damage the colder family And in addition Damage each and every one of us And I would like to read for you A little piece of pope frances' book where he says we should all protect the environment For human beings to destroy the biologically diversity of god's creation For human beings to degrade the integrity of the earth and cause damages to its climate By stripping the earth of its natural forests or destroying its wetlands For human beings to contaminate the earth's water its land its air its life these are sins For to commit a crime against the natural world is a sin against ourselves and a sin against god And what he warns about is that our fam our planet is in desperate need and he Thanks each and every one of us that is trying to protect Places that have never been touched by any kind of contamination That's why this At next session will be detrimental to each and every one of us and especially in the way that it's being handled Thank you very much That ends the list of people who signed up to speak tonight Is there anyone else who wishes to be heard dulcy johnson when come forward? Is there anyone else wishing to be heard? Please come in the on deck chair dulcy johnson 1306 north third street shabuigan The plan commission document regarding the zoning of the proposed proposed golf course annexation Talks about rezoning land in the town of wilson I didn't know that the city could rezone town of wilson land And I would submit that perhaps that document and tonight's document are premature The town has zoned the land in question As p1 parks and recreation a2 agricultural a3 agricultural transition and r1 residential the city plan commission voted to rezone The land s r5 I went to the planning office this morning to inquire about the s r5 zoning The go-to guy for zoning questions was not in his office today So I referenced the zoning ordinance notebook page 42 And I have all these pages right here Page 42 proceeded to the list of allowable land uses per sub chapter 15 dash 2 Including land uses permitted as conditional uses Because I had heard that a conditional use permit would be required For said golf course under s r5 Land uses permitted as conditional use include Clear cutting indoor institutional outdoor institutional community living arrangement and bed and breakfast establishments From there I referenced outdoor institutional uses which referred me to section 15.206 sub 3 sub d And read that active outdoor public recreational land uses include all recreational land uses located on public property And includes publicly owned golf courses I could not find any reference To privately owned golf courses So I'm confused about how a private golf course could be included In s r5 as a conditional use And I hope that someone will clarify that during the discussion of document 8.6 or postpone a vote On that document until you really know what you're voting on. Thank you. Is there anyone else wishing to be heard? Please proceed I'm Liz braden at 131 timberlake road Right in the town of wilson This proposed property is in my backyard literally Or right on the edge of it I've been listening to all the comments today and I am talking about the zoning because it's become I Increasingly aware of is wondering why is it suburban residential? Five it's parkland in town of wilson That's what the zoning is and there's conditional use permit for that which is very different Suburban residential five means if the golf course doesn't go through we could end up with a huge subdivision with small lots I didn't move up here 14 years ago for that I moved up here because I felt in love with the area It's like being in the north woods you go into the town of wilson into the black river area It's like a different world You're in the north woods and it's only in our north of milwaukee All those chicago people are heading zooming past on the freeway to dark county It could just be coming to shabuigan county and they could have that beautiful north woods feeling So I really urge you to reconsider this zoning It makes no sense and I don't see how we can separate the annexation from the zoning because they are interconnected So I urge you to vote against that too. Thank you Is there anyone else wishing to be heard? Chad could you check the back room? Okay, all the person wolf Thank you, mayor. I make a motion to close the hearing second Thank you for that motion and support all those in favor, please signify by saying aye. Aye opposed Motion passes Next we'll move on to the consent agenda. That'll include items 3.2 through 3.23 all the person wolf Thank you, mayor I make a motion to accept and file all our o's accept and adopt all our c's and pass all resolutions And ordinances second. Thank you for the motion and support the consent agendas before you Are there any uh questions on any of the items in the consent agenda? Seeing no discussion will the clerk please call the roll All the person drawn All the person Ross Thank you 16 ayes Motion passes under reports of officers items 4.1 through 4.8 will be referred to various committees Under resolutions item 5.1 will lie over Items 5.2 and 5.3 will be referred to various committees Under reports of committees 6.1 is RC number 40 of 1718 by the law and licensing committee and our own number 33 of 1718 by the city clerk submitting licensed applications and recommends The taxicab driver's license applications 1657 George D. Welch be denied based upon his record of violations related to the licensed activity His history as a habitual law offender his failure to cooperate with the committee other person holds you Thank you. Mr. Mayor. I move that the report of committee be accepted and adopted Thank you for that motion. Is there a second? We have a second under discussion. Yes, I'm wondering if George Welch is here Our committee has voted to deny his license due to the lack of ability to cooperate with our committee As well as several felonies that have a direct influence on a taxi cab driver's license Thank you. Is there any other discussion? Seeing none will the clerk please call the roll All the person drawn All the person Ross Thank you 16 eyes Motion passes Item 6.2 is RC number 49 of 1718 by finance and personnel committee to whom is referred resolution number 26 of 1718 We all the person donahue and born to authorize a loan from the trust funds from the state of wisconsin in the sum of $400,000 for tax incremental district number 16 housing project and to repeal resolution 13 of 1718 dated may 1st of 2017 and recommends that the resolution be passed all the person donahue Thank you, mayor. I move to accept adopt and pass the resolution Second. Thank you for that motion in support. Is there any discussion on the motion? Seeing none will the clerk please call the roll All the person drawn All the person Ross Hi Thank you 16 eyes Motion passes Item 6.3 is RC number 50 of 1718 by the finance and personnel committee to whom is referred resolution number 27 of 1718 by all the person born Urging that the common council the city of shabuigan urge the governor and the legislature to protect Homeowners and main street businesses from having more of the property tax burden shifted to them by passing legislation It recommends that the resolution be passed all the person born Thank you, mayor. I make a motion to accept and adopt and pass the resolution Thank you for that motion in support Is there any discussion on the motion? Seeing none will the clerk please call the roll All the person drawn Hi All the person Ross Hi Thank you 16 eyes Motion passes Item 6.4 is RC number 56 of 1718 by the public safety committee to whom is referred resolution number 34 of 1718 By all the person drawn authorizing entering into a contract for the purchases of one new fire engine for the city of shabuigan fire department Recommends passing the resolution all the person drawn Thank you for that motion. Is there a second second? Anyway, I was second that's for us for discussion Seeing no discussion with the clerk please call the roll. I'm sorry all the person Belanger Thank you. I would like to make a motion to refer to this to the committee of the whole We are discussing several issues related to the fire department at the committee the whole This is a $500,000 expenditure. I think it would be nice to have this vetted and Discussed in greater detail at the committee of the whole when we discuss other issues regarding the fire department Is there a second second? Okay under discussion on the amendment I'd like to call up micromas to see if this is going to create any other issues. I understand your reason for doing it though This is a 2016 capital approved item already and We're making plans already to have this engine in place. So I'd be totally against that Okay, is there any other discussion all the person down here? Thank you, sir. I don't notice how my button is working And that was the point I was going to make is that this has already been approved. It's been Vetted by the capital improvements commission the city plan commission and was part of the overall budget for 2016 So this is just merely an implementation of that expenditure And I don't think we can go back and re-litigate what we approved for 2016 I think all the discussion that we had at that time did reflect It is a huge investment There's no doubt about it that it is a needed piece of equipment and we really should not be delaying Other person sorenson. Yeah, I'd like to echo what other person who said and chief You also said in committee too that the engine that we were replacing Is already over so many years that they get replaced after I believe it was 23 years and this one's 25 years This one's at 27 going on 28. Yeah, and there's also an eight month lead time So we need to get in production scheduled or else we won't get it for over it'll be Maybe 19 And I just like to add one thing we approve this in committee and the committee approved it unanimously I yield Is there any other discussion All those in favor of referring I mean This back to committee Signify by saying aye Aye Opposed We need a roll call Okay, that was an older person drawn. Yeah, it was a nay, uh, older person Ross Nay And then the rest of you if you'd please enter it into your voting All the person drawn. What did you say? Okay And all the person Ross. What did you do was a nay? Okay. Thank you Okay, so we're back to discussing the the motion before us. I'm sorry On the screen there is not the amendment There's no amendment the motion that you're voting on right now is to refer this to the committee of the whole And I vote would be to refer and they vote would be not to refer On the screen it says recommend passing the resolution. Okay. Well What I have here and what all the votes are is to refer Rosemary I'm confused. I thought we we just did a vote on Referring it We're doing and we're doing a roll call because it wasn't unanimous There is dissension. So we have to record who dissented Okay, so this is so this would be Referring it to the committee of the whole and I vote would be to refer it a nay vote would be Not to refer it okay point of order that is not the motion that is on the screen that we'll be voting on The motion on the screen is is actually what does it say up here adopting and passing the resolution? So the clerk will make sure this is recorded on the referral request and then we'll go on to the next motion I'm going to go back to the main one next Yeah, what you need Two nays and four. I'm sorry two eyes and 14 nays to refer to the committee of the whole Okay, now we're back to the motion to approve the Accept a doping and pass the this resolution Is there any further discussion on the resolution? Seeing none will the clerk please call the roll and the resolution Alderperson drawn Alderperson ross Hi 15 eyes one no Motion passes item 5 6.5 will be referred to the committee of the whole Then we'll move on to matters laid over Item 7.1 as general ordinance number 5 of 1718 by alderperson donahue borne wilf rineflesh ross amending section 82 dash 33 of the shabuigan county and the shabuigan municipal code as to amend the positions in the department of public works Wastewater treatment division and the engineering division in the department of public works organization Alderperson donahue Thank you, mayor and move to pass the ordinance second Thank you for that motion in support. Is there any discussion on the ordinance? Seeing none will the clerk please call the roll Alderperson drawn Hi Alderperson ross Thank you 16 eyes Motion passes Next we'll go on to item documents pertaining to the zoning and annexation 8.1 is uh report of officers number 58 Uh of 1718 by the city clerk submitting the communication from dave and gene Gruber stating their concerns regarding the proposed cooler company annexation to the city. Alderperson wilf Thank you, mayor make a motion to accept and file second. Thank you for that motion in support Is there any discussion on the motion? Seeing none all those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye opposed Motion passes Uh next item is 8.2 is our own number 60 of 1718 by the city clerks submitting the communication Our attorney westerberg of pines beach llp regarding the cooler company's annexation position Petition the proposed zoning map amendment and the pre annexation and development agreement Alderperson wilf. Thank you, mayor. I make a motion to accept and file second. Thank you for that motion in support. Is there any discussion? Seeing none all those in favor, please signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed? Aye Motion passes. I'm sorry you voted against Okay, let's take a roll call vote. Okay, this is to file the communication Alderperson drawn Alderperson drawn to file the communication Thank you. Sorry. I did say aye. Sorry about that. Okay. Thank you. Alderperson ross Aye Thank you Alderman londosky I'm sorry Alderman londosky Thank you 15 ayes one no Motion passes Item 8.3 is our own number 59 of 1718 by the city clerks submitting a communication from the wisconsin department of administration Regarding the cooler company annexation stating that the proposed annexation has been reviewed and found to be in the public interest Alderperson wilf. Thank you, mayor. I make a motion to accept and file second Thank you for that motion in support. Is there any discussion? Alderperson trester My question is when they say that This has been found to be in the public interest. I'd like to know what public Uh More interviewed or um heard That they could make such a statement I'd like to turn that over to the city attorney The department of administration and making determination of whether something is in the public interest Follows the uh standards in the state statute and makes a determined Determination based on that they're not taking a poll of any particular People whether it's in the city or the town instead. They're applying the law Thank you very much Alderperson lee windowski I saw on the facebook page for friends of the black river forest They uh submitted a document that they got through public records And on there it said that They were did not feel that it was in the best interest of the citizens of shabuagon And I have the first page of what they included on there And it said Please consider that the review of this annexation petition becomes simple when this fact is considered The proposed core and exit annexation is likely the largest Jerry meandered balloon on a string annexation submitted a municipal boundary review in decades I received thousands of annexations over Six and one half years. I never saw more erigosely Jerry meandered balloon on a string annexation These types of annexations are very seldom submitted to mbr for review Because most petitioners and cities understand That an annexation with this shape and characteristics is against the public interest The city of shabuagon and coal apparently believe that they can make up their own rules This is a moment of truth for municipal boundary review if mbr cannot Mustard a courage to find against this annexation Then mbr's annexation review function is broken and it might as well stop Reviewing annexations. So they said that it was against the public interest Thank you for that Is that as the city attorney to address the balloon on a string uh contention? Well at this point I'm not going to comment on that because it's Not either my comment on that or anything alderman londusky just said is germane to the motion before you Okay, thank you. We'll move on then Is there any other discussion on the motion to accept and file? All the person holds you I have a question. I'm not certain that this is the appropriate time to ask it But this document is saying that the wisconsin department of administration found the annexation to be in the best of public interest And what alderman londelsky just brought forward says it's not my question is which is it Those people are not working and for the department of administration as they understand at this time The people that wrote londelsky Some of them may have worked for the department in the past But it wasn't from that office. Are you saying? No, it's not. Okay. Thank you. That brings clarity. Thank you. All the person boring Thank you, mayor. I had that same question this morning. I uh Alderman londelsky had sent that out and I couldn't I couldn't download the document So I called alderman londelsky and asked them the date of that document And the date on that document whether their employees are not pre seeds What I consider to be the official from the department of administration and I believe that was on June 5th. I don't have it right in front of me here But that the document that we actually got from the department administration The official document was after that document that uh alderman londelsky was referencing. Thank you Thank you. Alderperson trester I spoke to the department Of the administration today I put a call into them because I was a little confused As to it being in the best interest of the public And when I posed the question They could not answer As quickly as the city attorney did Because they the woman I spoke to who was the assistant to the man who sent the letter out Eric whatever his last name is um She didn't know why it was in the best interest Of the city of shiboyan Um, or in the the best interest of the public I guess is the word they used I'm not convinced that this is in the best interest of the public And I'm not so sure that I like the idea That an organization that is in madison that does not Have feedback from people who are considered the public Have the right to make that determination Okay We have some direction for the council on this line of uh, Right now all we're doing is accepting and filing the document the proper time For the discussion on whether you agree or not with the department administration's Uh decision would be at the uh point that we're discussing the actual annexation right now All you're voting for is whether to file or not So you should your comments should be limited as to whether the document should be filed or not filed Okay, so we're back to the motion to file Um All those in favor of filing, please signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed Uh will the clerk please call the roll All the person drawn All the person ross Thank you Fifteen eyes one no Motion passes 8.4 is rc number 51 of 1718 by the finance and personnel committee to whom is referred resolution number 28 Of 1718 by alder person donahue and boron authorizing the appropriate city officials to execute The pre annexation and development agreement recommends that they pass the resolution along with the attached updated agreement Alder person donahue Thank you mayor for the purposes only about placing the matter on the floor I move that the resolution be Accepted adopted and passed second. Thank you for that motion and support under discussion. Alder person lee windowsky I just got something that I don't want to read There is an old saying if it sounds too good to be true It probably is This proposed annexation of land and color's golf course seems to be too good to be true Polar told us about all the tax money shabuagan would get Where did these tax paid dollar figures come from? Can we actually believe anything kohler company tells us? A couple of weeks ago at the planning commission meeting where the planning commission voted on it A representative from kohler company said there would be no runoff or pollution getting to lake michigan Nowhere else on this planet is that true. So how can kohler company say that there won't be any here We received figures from the fire department fire chief head of human resources And the fire department union all working for the city of shabuagan Yet some older persons do not believe our city employees and want to study done How come no one is asking for a study of where kohler company came up with their numbers? Chad palichek told us in closed session I know what was said in closed session is private But since it was posted on facebook last week, it is no longer private Chad said a developer would pay for putting all in all water and sewer lines for the onyx line land But kohler company lawyers have crossed that out according to a post last week on the facebook page from friends of the black river forest And their lawyer and documents obtained from the city of shabuagan under freedom of information act also crossed out By kohler company lawyers was the part that said the golf course was Located in shabuagan Do we really want kohler in shabuagan? If they are not going to acknowledge being part of our city or to promote shabuagan They have never promoted shabuagan in the past. Why should we expect them to do so now? For the first golf tournament at whistling streets Kohler directed traffic away from shabuagan The exact words posted on their facebook page and I quote Kohler strikes shabuagan as a location of proposed course in all advertising Chad Pilechek shabuagan city planning prepared a powerpoint for the city council closed session on april 24th He stated the water utility shall extend water service to the golf course property at the developer's expense Developer to identify the golf course as being in shabuagan on future televised events Those two items were immediately deleted by debbie thomsky Kohler attorney and the council never saw them They speak for themselves as to why kohler wanted them removed from their presentation So if kohler and the developer are not paying for water And sewer line that would lead the city of shabuagan and its taxpayers would rather see any available City money spent on street repair not on a billionaire's golf course A few weeks ago alderman bellinger was boarded in the shabuagan press As saying the city is spending and borrowing too much money. So now we should Spend and borrow more money for a billionaire's golf course A billionaire who has a wallet as big as his ego and uses that wallet to buy or get what he wants Either by buying or waving big wads of cash in front of people In the town of wilson kohler company needed three property owners Or people living on those properties to get enough signatures to apply to have the town of wilson land annexed into the city of shabuagan So what did kohler company do? They bought these properties In the town of wilson and are now leasing them out to get the needed signatures Legal yes, but right no By doing it this way Kohler is forcing his way on the other people in the town of wilson and do not want to be on extent to the city of shabuagan Some people also say it's kohler's property. Let him do what he wants with it But in order to do what he wants with it. He needs wisconsin state parkland. That doesn't belong to him Kohler company getting his parkland for their private use would set a dangerous precedent for other parks in the future Kohler and his huge ego want to make kohler not shabuagan a destination for golfers The question of indian artifacts on this land has also come up Kohler says that the indian tribes are okay with this project Are they really have we heard that directly from the leaders of the various tribes and do we have it in writing? In the 1800s the u.s. Government would announce that indians Had a certain time and faith there would be a They would be there to sign a treaty most of the time the indian tribes and chiefs would Be against the treaty and would Avoid the area a few indians would show up to see what gifts they could get from the government The government would then declare that these indians were chiefs and represented their tribes And have them put their mark on a treaty. How do we know a kohler can't be doing the same thing? I also had quite a few questions and asked various city people these questions And I got a answers of that's a good question, but I don't know I asked council president wolf when he called me Next year we are scheduled to go down to 10 older persons But we will have the same districts as a county Well, we still have the same districts as a county if we annex this land I asked the fire chief since the town of wilson and black river area is heavily forested Would we be able to fight a fire in that area with the equipment we have that she said We are an urban type fire department and we would need to call in other departments with their equipment But we could handle being in charge of fighting the fire I asked the dpw. How many ash trees there will are in the proposed annex area And how many the city would be responsible for taking down again the answer I got was I don't know but it's a lot other questions I have but didn't ask Well, we need to hire more police officers to patrol this much larger area of the city or police department is stretched thin now But we need to add bus service to that area and how would that affect the current half hour bus schedule that the transfer points What happens to the development if kohler doesn't get the needed permits from the dnr Will the city of shaboyan still get the tax money and hotel tax kohler has promised If the town of wilson soon does who pays for your attorney fees To me there are just too many unanswered questions for me to vote in favor of this But all the unanswered questions I have and I had more questions before I spoke with the mayor today And he answered some of my questions And I thank me or van der steen for taking the time to speak to me and answer some of my questions I am in favor of annexing the land but not for another golf course I have lived in shaboyan my entire life and have learned never to trust kohler company So I still ask my fellow all the persons Please vote against the annexation like I will be doing because it sounds too good to be true for shaboyan But if this annexation passes, I hope I'm proved wrong But I've heard the same thing before how something was going to benefit shaboyan Two that comes to mind are plaza eight and spaceport shaboyan. Thank you Thank you for those comments all the person boring Thank you, mayor Being a member of the finance committee. I read the pre annexation agreement Before the meeting last monday and then I got to the meeting and then we got a revised copy And one thing in particular disturbed me in the changes and that's on page seven Item double i And that is it reads as follows the city agrees that it shall not directly charge developer For the cost of to design and extend that portion of the new water main from its Current terminus at river dale drive the stall road developer developer agrees That it shall reimburse the equivalent third party cost of extending an eight inch water main south of stall road to beach park road then I asked the question of With the city being responsible for the river dale Riverdale drive portion down to stall road how much that's going to cost the city And I was told it's going to be $500,000 Other person donnie you've made a motion Which I seconded To reinstate the language that coal or company if I if I remember correctly That coal or company would be responsible for the area of riverdale drive down to stall road The vote with four members present was Two for that motion to reinstate Reinstate that that the developer would pay that entire cost and two against so what I would like to make a motion tonight Is to reinstate the original language and it could read It could read city agrees that it shall Charge developer for the cost of design And extend that portion of the new water main from its current terminus at riverdale drive to stall road Did you hear any probably should wait for a second and I'll comment Okay, we have a second on Request your your motion is fine. I would suggest somewhat different wording though because Just simply dropping the knot Does it really? I think you need to have it parallel That the really the proper language that I would suggest is you eliminate the first sentence of two And you change Stall road in the second sentence To riverdale drive That that would keep everything parallel then that would probably be the better way to handle that not saying you should Hope for or against that, but if you're if you're going to make that motion I think that language is preferable that that's fine with me if that's more appropriate. I hope it's okay with my second Okay, so we have an amendment to the motion on the floor. I need to have that repeated by city attorney so it would be to eliminate the first sentence of subsection four c2 on page seven And then to amend The second sentence which now becomes the first sentence so that Instead of stall road it reads riverdale drive So in other words, it would be starting at riverdale drive and it would be going all the way down to beach park wood Right, is that correct? Correct and you know it should also include Riverdale drive to beach park road in the Fourth sentence as well which deals with Connection fees So the the fourth sentence would also replace the word stall road and replace it with Riverdale drive Okay, we have an amendment that was made. Is there any discussion on the amendment all the person down here? thank you, um actually The Older boring kind of beat me to the punch here. I actually have four fairly significant issues that I would like to have amended in the agreement And just as a preface to The proper way that we should go about this. I just want to say that we are going mighty fast on this The petition annexation petition was filed on May 15 and the statute allows Up to 120 days for the the Body to make a decision we're doing it in five weeks and The annexation the pre annexation agreement, which was negotiated between the caller company and staff And there's really nothing unusual about that But it came to the finance committee just last week We spent about an hour on it and there was another meeting and there really wasn't time to fully explore the other issues That I have with the with the uh with the agreement. Um, I completely support Alderborn's amendment If the city is responsible for installing the water lines down to stall road that is about a $500,000 price tag What the city gets out of the additional property taxes that caller is going to be paying is 87 $89,000 a year So it would be more than five years before the city has any financial benefit from this annexation In terms of property taxes So, you know that is that is a significant concern And i'm just not sure why we gave up the original language which had the developer putting in the water line With the provision that if the city is connecting additional people into that water line, we'll pay the developer for those costs And that would be fair. Um the The caller company is asking for a huge concession in my opinion in terms of annexing this property And we at least should not be Hamilton would say, you know throwing away our shot on this. So, um Not at all apropos to the this particular amendment. I have great concerns about the cap on attorney fees I think there is some need to restructure the language with Could we keep that for those other items? Well, and let me just finish with respect to um, the city cooperating with the company in terms of obtaining Access or obtaining various permits and then I really do think we need to talk about public access beyond just the public trust doctrine For people being able to walk along the lake My view and I don't know how alderborn would feel about this is that this matter just be Re-referred to the finance committee So that we could spend a little bit more time Thinking about and examining this lengthy and very important agreement I mean, we're basing a lot of our enthusiasm about this on all the money we're going to get Well, I don't think we're going to get that much money at least for a while And so I think we ought to talk about it in more detail I don't know falter born would be willing to to withdraw his Amendment with the idea that if my amendment to Re-referred to to finance fails he could reinstate his and we can just keep going through this Thanks for those comments. Is there any more comments on the amendment? Alderman down here. Is that a motion to you can't make a motion because we have an amendment on the floor That's not your main to agree to withdraw his motion for the time being I'm not ready to do that at this time. I think uh Any discussion that we have on my concern and also all our person donahue with all the people here from the town of wilson I think they should hear the discussion tonight They're here and uh, it's very difficult for some of the people that are here tonight from the town of wilson To probably make a four o'clock meeting on a monday night. So I would just assume Vote on our concerns on this doctrine tonight Thank you for those comments. Is there any other discussion on the amendment all their person trester? If we're not going to refer this back to finance, then I am not going to support it Thank you for those comments Any other discussion all the person boring? I just want to reiterate that I just think you know when I when I read the document before I go to the finance committee and It's approved or a coaler company agrees to pay for that entire water line From riverdale all the way down to south to to beach park road And all of a sudden I get the finance and the language is changed and I find out it's going to cost the taxpayers five hundred thousand dollars. I guess I value the city's tax dollars and I and I don't want to be paying the five hundred thousand dollars And how we ultimately vote on this annexation tonight I think this might be something that we all could agree on that the city should not be paying five hundred thousand dollars for this water line So I would encourage you to support the amendment And have coaler company pay for the entire water line. Thank you I like uh all Administrator hofflin to talk a little bit about why there was a division at stall road And why we're treating that differently when what we negotiated the agreement As part of the water utilities Infrastructure plan As part of that planning effort they identify where the major backbone Water mains are are installed and typically those are along arterial streets in the community With 12th street being one of those So as as the city continues to grow along the southern edge of our existing community This again this probably would be installed not as a eight inch a 12 inch but probably a 16 inch water main again With the expectation that ultimately it would be a loop system heading west to South business thrive Eventually again a planning process So the section between riverdale Install road again as part of that Backbone infrastructure plan that is part of a a master plan for the water system And that was the the philosophy. I guess that was used as part of the Discussion between coaler company representatives and city staff to amend the Prenexation development agreement Just prior to that finance and personnel committee As as the document identifies should there be annexations between Riverdale and stall road along 12th street Similar to the provision in the prenexation agreement that recognizes The section that coaler company is financially responsible for should there be any annexations along this stretch That would be a reimbursement of any city expense Which would ultimately defray or reduce the city's city's cost Any difference in water main pipe costs between eight inch 12 inch or 16 inch That would be borne by the water utility because again, it's part of this major backbone water main extension plan And that would support the new proposed lands for annexation with the industrial park As many of you probably have read the city's city utilities in the process of Locating designing and planning to construct as early as 2018 a new water tower In an area south of the shabuigan business center Eventually the section Of the water line heading west on stall road would ultimately connect with that Elevated water storage tank Thank you all the person down here um And I I appreciate that I just think we're doing the coaler company a huge favor And there's no reason to give away $500,000 which really Doesn't bring us any financial benefit just in terms of property taxes for more than five years I understand that there are other economic benefits. I'm not as rosy about all those benefits as the presenters from scedc and the coaler company Nonetheless, I think there would be some some economic benefit But here's my question. It's a procedural one If we vote on this amendment and it passes the pre annexation agreement then is amended Is the annexation petition then which is predicated on the pre annexation agreement being agreeable to all or agreeable to a majority Does that continue on or Where does that leave us? That's why I think it ought to go back to finance The annexation petition is not conditioned on the pre annexation agreement So it is possible to annex property without a pre annexation agreement and that could happen today as well So in other words In terms of the annexation We really don't have any control over the use of that land except as it would be delineated in uh, sr5 The coaler company could decide to take down the forest and and and put in posh homes Well, you also would have to pass the zoning which is a third separate item. So simply I think we have to think of each of these three items separately The annexation is simply do we add You know property From the town of wilson to the city of shaboy again the pre annexation agreement governs, you know Sort of the agreements between the city and the coaler company on how We'll deal with some of the issues that arise as a result of the annexation And the zoning obviously deals with the zoning issue and they're not necessarily They don't necessarily have to rely on each other you could pass You couldn't pass zoning without annexing first but beyond that You can have one without the other. Well, I just I just wonder if there are substantive changes to the pre annexation agreement Whether we should go ahead with the annexation tonight, but in the meantime if alder Born is not willing to withdraw his motion. I I will support The amendment. I think it's real important. We not give up on this I understand the looping water system looping. That's very good for the city And it's just in the negotiations that we have with a powerful landowner And we are a powerful city and we ought to make sure that we don't give up our our Our ability to make sure that this is actually a financially viable piece for us Thank you for those comments all the person sorenson Kind of going back to the water utility and the water connection if the city is Ending up having to pay for for the connection And this is a question for the city minister or for the mayor So will we have to borrow additional funds for that or is that currently budgeted aside for the future for the water connection? Um, I'm not sure about that. Can you answer? Really the common council has has a couple different options. One could be borrowed funds To maybe coincide with Eventual revenue associated with the additional tax base so that you mirror the the debt service with the future Property taxes that would be received on the project. The city does have roughly 51 56 percent of its Annual operating expense in a reserve account in the general fund. So there would be sufficient funds Excess fund balance in the general fund to pay for expenditure like this So the city does have options Any follow-up? Nope not at this moment. Okay all the person go ahead try it again Yes, the city has funds in our fund balance to pay for this capital Expense or the city could issue debt so at this current moment There's no plan moving forward with with disagreeing moving forward right now for discussing water main hookup at the city The source of the revenue associated with this project, which could be in a couple years Has not been discussed at any committee. Okay. Thank you Moving on all their prison bellinger Thank you. Um city administrator. Could you please let the council know what the 56 percent equals in dollars? In reserves what that number is Um, I don't find instructors here tonight. My recollection is is it 10 million? Probably 10 million In uh in in fund balance in the general fund Any other discussion? See none the clerk. Please call the roll on the amendment Do you all know what the amendment is? Basically Yes, okay All the person drawn All the person Ross, thank you 13 eyes. Oh, excuse me 13 eyes three nose Motion passes The amendment passes so the um, uh resolution is before us as amended. Is there any other discussion? All the person donahue Thank you, mayor. I would like to amend Section 5 sub e of the agreement which provides a cap of 125 thousand dollars That the caller company will reimburse the city for with respect to legal fees and to To eliminate the cap and and ask for full payment from the caller company second Okay, we have an amendment that was made on the legal fee cap Is there any discussion on the amendment? All the person sorenson so in the For this amount it's it's 125 thousand dollars Can either committee members or the city attorney kind of discuss how that number came to be City attorney, could you explain? The research you've got on possible litigation Well, I mean it was a negotiated number, uh, like frankly Some of the some of the Discussion related first of all Regarding what the city's deductible might be under our Insurance, which is 125 thousand dollars However, I wanted to make clear that Depending on how the litigation occurs Most likely this would not be covered by our insurance Um Just because of the nature of the claim would not be for damages Now if if there were a claim for damages, then it would be covered by our insurance We also took a look at the nature of the litigation in this case and Well, all litigation is expensive and I absolutely cannot guarantee you that it would be less than 125 thousand dollars um in In sort of negotiating a cap 125 thousand dollars seemed At least reasonable to both sides In setting an amount A couple things to keep in mind The pre-annexation agreement Really relates specifically to this annexation Should there be In the unlikely event that a court Would find this annexation to be Not legal and The city would have to start over Uh, really the caller would have to start over That would be the end of of this agreement that would be the end of this annexation And any agreement would you know would start over and we would be able to negotiate additional funds So given sort of the nature of the litigation again, I can't guarantee you in any way that It wouldn't cost the city anything That fees would only go up to 125 thousand But this this is a different Different type of beast than certain other types of litigation For example, you know the litigation regarding Uh, you know the the union avenue tap or some of the other litigation that we're involved with with the city Um all the person down to you Um, I just wanted to speak to my reasoning This is a handy little chart about our annexation over the years and how the city has grown And it's historically very interesting It's particularly interesting if you start going into the 1980s and all Many of the little red Lines talk about a circuit court decision Various other decisions that were Litigated the town of shabuigan had a long history of litigation with the city With respect to annexations In other words annexations can get litigated and Before the department of administration letter Um, I would have thought that the Respectfully, but I thought that they Town of wilson chances were slim to none Based on on prior case law But when the department of administration says I think this Annexation this balloon on a string falls somewhere in between the first mount pleasant case and the second mount pleasant case which kind of Stirred up how you how you analyze these annexations on a string That gave me a lot of thought and I My sense is that there will likely be some litigation here respectfully attorney Adams 125,000 dollars doesn't get you very far these days. It's not only the attorney fees, but it's the expert witness fees and litigation I can almost I can't imagine litigation of this complexity Going for less than 125,000 dollars I just think if we get into this because we are Extending this terrific benefit to the Kohler company That if it's litigated They should pay Because we're doing it on their behalf. And so I think I think originally there wasn't a cap on the attorney fees, right Chuck Right the document that you had in in front of you at finance and personnel, which of course had not been Agreed to by either side, but we had to get the document to you did not have a cap that is correct So I think that we should just take this back and say no cap on attorney fees Other discussion alderperson boran Thank you, mirror if I remember correctly from The finance committee meeting attorney Adams that we're going to be hiring outside counsel for this We would likely hire outside counsel for this. Okay, so I mean that's up to you in the end But right well that would be my recommendation. Okay, and then also with this type of litigation Is it possible? I think I answered asked this question at finance, but I can't remember your answer Would it be possible on this type of litigation that the judge could order that we pay the town of wilson's legal fees Should the ruling come in against us? It depends on the nature of the lawsuit the town would file against the city However If it is the typical type that where a court could allow those fees It is much more likely then to fall under our insurance Okay, and I I remember with some history on the council 11 years going on 12 years on the council with some issues that we've had in the past where The city has come up on the short end of the stick with legal fees And I'm I'm trying to reference certain issues, but I think it may have had something to do with the blue harbor development Or something down in the riverfront. So I'm I'm along with all our person down here. I am Very concerned that 125 thousand dollars. This is going to be enough. Thank you Thank you for those comments all the person bellinger thank you I'm just I'm just concerned that We're going through this and we're nitpicking this agreement And there was a mutual agreement between the city and kohler and the people that are charged with bringing this Type of thing together before us and I can see some minor things But right now we've we've put them on the hook for 500 thousand dollars probably for For the the water line that's going to be building the backbone of the infrastructure that we're going to want to move further south You know, we're going to put that all on them and now we're going to have You know remove a cap on legal fees and say, you know what whatever it's going to be You know, we're not going to share in any responsibility with it We're just going to go in and do this and you know, I've got some concerns that you know by you know Doing all this stuff and putting this all in 100 percent our favor and sure we want to do all this and And you know have you know, you know the big ugly corporation pay for everything and you know and You know, we've they've got you know, they've you know, they've got We've got something that they want and they want our votes You know, I think we might be You know before we even get to vote on the annexation have killed the deal and I guess I would like to Refer to the city administrator hofflin and say, you know, you had your negotiations with coaler company and Do you think that this these what we're talking about would be amicable with them and they would move forward Or would they tell us to pound sand and walk away from it? The administrator hofflin As you can imagine, there's been a series of negotiations both with Mr. Cassidy and other internal legal counsel and contracted legal counsel as as city attorney adams identified Most of the provisions of this document were Addressed by city staff in consultation with council leadership Some of the changes again that we discussed tonight were made within Two days of the last Finance and personnel committee. So some of the details were still up in the air prior to that meeting Uh representatives of coaler company did I identify Concerns specifically on the capping the coming up with a cap for the legal They identified that potentially there are some additional rooms should the 125,000 Not be of the council's liking But they did identify their Strong desire that in fact the the agreement have some type of a financial cap You've already addressed the issue of the water main extension Big picture. I don't know if the change if the change in the water main and potentially a change in the Legal cap is a deal breaker It's really unknown. I know that Ultimately every project has a bottom line And whether this no longer meets their bottom line as far as a return on their investment They will have to make that decision I think I would add though that is it a deal breaker as far as the annexation happening the answer to that is no Because once they've made the application for the annexation it is now in your hands So even if we don't ever get to an agreement with coaler it may be May not be useful to have no agreement with them, but you can still annex without an agreement with coaler And and then we would have to work things out later Thank you for those comments alder person trester I guess I feel that as long as coaler is the one that came to us and we didn't go to them At least that is what we're being told um We need to protect ourselves and I think Alderman donahue has a good point And I would support Alderman donahue Thank you. Alder person wolf Thank you, mayor. I I agree with uh alderman Bellinger on the points that I think that We're taking this a little bit out of context if we were to look at this opportunity By anybody else and not look at the the owner's name We would be looking at this as a benefit to the area And we wouldn't be I mean Having them pay for The complete water water main I think is more than More than uh enough than for any one Owner of a property to have to to bear that burden Which is going to be beneficial to the city and to others for the long run To to go and ask for additional legal um Funding that's kind of like a well that you you just you never know when it's going to dry up and it's not It's not fair to any any owner of a Corporation of a land of a homeowner um I mean again, we're looking at The the lawsuit would be from from the locals. So Let's let's try to be uh sensitive to what we're asking for so that we can help each other. Thank you Thank you, elder person wolf elder person Bellinger. Thank you. Um, I would offer um Alderman Donahue a friendly amendment. I'm I'm Extremely, you know, I cannot vote for an uncapped legal fees, but if we were to set it say at 200 000 You know, that's the city administrator alluded to some movement on that issue. Um, I think that would be You know a significant leap for us is this financially and then it would still preserve and put a cap on it And you know, we could go from there, but I would just throw that out for your consideration Holder person Donahue I would I would I would certainly consider a cap just based on my experience. We're looking at 400 grand We really are because it's not only legal fees. It's expert fees. And if you think lawyers are expensive experts are just as expensive these cases The cases that we review that the department of administration letter Talks about these are all supreme court cases So we're not we're not we're talking about the trial court level the court of appeals And then potentially the wisconsin supreme court potentially If it is the supreme court, then it's over 400 grand, but I mean if I would agree to 400 000 With the hope that it would certainly not come to that And maybe there would never even be a lawsuit filed All the person Bellinger, you do have the right to make an amendment to the amendment That's on the floor as long as it limits it or increases it. Um, so you do have that option I'm just saying I've been involved in some major litigation and it's really expensive you know the The litigant is going to have to come up with the same resources and have the same financial where with all as well And right now, I don't know if that's the case that they could do that I would make an amendment to amendment to for 200 000 dollars Is there a second? Second, okay, we have a second Katie we're going to vote on this amendment first to to change it from an unlimited amount to 200 000 dollars Is there any discussion on this motion to amend the amendment? Alderperson lee bandowski I just want to say that color approached us with this annexation proposal So we're in a driver's seat and We should not be giving up the rights that we have for paying for For the possible lawsuit Because we would not have this lawsuit If it would not be for coal or coming to us and wanting to annex All of this property into the city Thank you. Alderperson whole shoe My question was regarding something else, but I have one question Let's just say this does go to court and there is litigation And the city of shaboygan wins the case Is there any way that the city or town of wilson would have to pay our attorney fees? Again, it depends on how the litigation Would be initiated But the again the answer is likely not. Okay But I might question us Okay, alderperson donahue Alderperson boran Thank you, mayor. I made the original second on on on the motion to uncap it As a compromise I will go along and see how the vote goes on the 200 000. Thank you Thank you for those comments alderperson sorenson. Yeah, I'm not so so comfortable putting this cap on I don't think it's appropriate that we were just pulling numbers out of thin air If we don't have any documentation or any data backing it up and having a good Good number that really reinforces what we're going to get ourselves into Thank you See no more discussion with the clerk. Please call the roll on this amendment to the amendment Okay, I'm sorry the all the amendment is to change from an unlimited to 200 000 in legal fees. Is that correct? Yes So an aye vote would be to change it to 200 000 Alderperson drawn Wait, I haven't done it yet Wait, I haven't done it yet We'll remember it hold on Okay, I've got alderperson drawn Alderperson ross May Thank you. That was a name. Yes. Thank you In eyes, eight nos, tie vote Chair votes aye Motion passes So now we have a motion on the floor That's been amended to 200 000 Is there any further discussion on the motion to amend? Alderperson holds you Mine is for after this No Any other discussion? Okay, then we're voting on the amendment to increase the legal fee Cap to 200 000 With the clerk, please call the roll No, we just did that We just did that One more time after we vote on the amendment for the amendment Don't we have to vote on the main amendment? You do have to vote on the main amendment Voting on the amendment as amended The one with the no cap with I'm sorry Are we voting that on on the motion that Color picks up our entire tab or is that just like forgotten? We just changed that from the from no cap to 200 000 dollars. We amended that amendment So now we're voting on the amendment as amended with a cap of 200 000 dollars In essence, you're voting on the very same thing But because of the process that used to get there you've got to vote on it again And if we don't agree with that then we're back to the All right, then we don't have any then we don't have any then then we're back to the 25 We're just back to the main motion So we are voting to cap it at 200 000 dollars And I vote would be the cap at 200 000 Alderperson drawn Hi Alderperson ross Thank you Ten eyes six nose motion passes Now we're back to the motion to approve the pre annexation agreement. Is there any other discussion as amended? Would be to approve as amended correct under a discussion. Alderperson holds you. Thank you, mr. Mayor I don't know if this is the appropriate time or not, but I'll be wondering are there any questions? Do we have all the answers? I certainly have a polythor of questions that I haven't been able to get answers to So where amongst items number 8.4 8.5 and 8.6. Can I make a motion to hold them all? Till we get more information. We're talking about 8.4 and we've already had chat about three different issues on that alone Well, if you have a question you can ask it on this motion I have lots of questions. Please go ahead That's more than just the annexation though. It's on all three things Or the your this is this is the pre annexation agreement So if it deals with these conditions that that's one issue if it doesn't then you should hold that discussion for the next item on the agenda Which is the annexation ordinance? I guess I would like to ask um council Mary Lynn, what were your two other items that you were uncomfortable with with this annexation agreement? Actually my The last amendment would be and I would just like attorney Adams view on it I'm concerned that the agreement doesn't provide for any public access along the sand And along the beach The public trust doctrine gives people Access but you have to have a foot in the water And so and I know the Kohler company is Pretty aggressive on these things that would usually be something that would be addressed in a conditional use permit Not a pre annexation agreement city attorney. Do you have any other thoughts there? Well, you're right that it would be typically dealt with in a conditional use permit application and we're not there A pre annexation agreement could conceivably cover this area If you wanted it to the issue it would be how do we do that? How do we craft language? At a council meeting right and and that's my concern We have to remember that when this goes to the city plan commission for the conditional use permit We have nothing to say about it We have the mayor and one alder the city engineer and four Community people who will be making these decisions. The community folks are great But unelected officials have the majority of You know the majority of those votes, so I'm not comfortable waiting to the conditional use permit This again is you know, this is speed kills. This is why we This is why we ought to be taking this just a little bit more easy but I I I guess I would I I guess I would offer an amendment that would direct the city attorney to craft language with respect to the public's access along The shores of lake michigan on a free basis Is there a second to that motion? Okay, we have a motion on the amendment on the floor on access Any other discussion on that amendment? I just to just to clarify since I'm the one being asked to draft the language to add to it Is there a level of detail to which you wish to get it? I obviously get the as you've talked about the public access doctrine But are you talking about further than the high water line or are there issues that you wish to? I think taking it to the high water line Although I don't know because we didn't really have a chance to discuss that in the finance committee And I haven't seen the maps for High watermark is But that would be traditionally where the access usually ends so Have you looked at the maps? I've looked at the maps, but honestly on the that particular issue You know, I haven't studied the land formations or anything And nor would I be the right person to do that because I'm a lawyer not a geologist Well, and I would just say that Language that would adequately protect public access would be would be fine and that it you know checking with folks who have more of that particular knowledge That would be and that would be placed in the pre-annexation agreement And as a clear contingent at past or approval would be contingent on that Is clarification okay with the second? Yes, thank you Okay, um under further discussion Alderperson Nelson Thank you, mayor maybe the city attorney could Further clarify that but it's my understanding that the wisconsin state constitution guarantees the Access along the beach. Is that correct? It does. Um, I think all the person donahue's Concern is though that sometimes there have been Developments along the lake that are technically not in violation of of those rules, but are practically Make it very difficult or impossible to gain access and so I would read the direction if the council approves this I would read the direction Basically as Ensuring that there are no structures no development that make it difficult for the public to exercise their right of access Can you thank you Next is older person boran Thank you, mayor Attorney Adams are we adding this on to some other item in the uh In the agreement or is this going to be a new item that you're adding this this would be a new item It would likely fall under Five and so the result of it would be to either Add well, I wouldn't put it as as letter t But I would put it somewhere in number five and then everything else would would from after I move it down What page is that on? Number five begins on page Eight, but it continues all the way through almost the end of the document we have Uh, I don't know what number The letter s is in the alphabet somewhere around 20, but we have about 20 items On there and it would add another one. All right. Thank you Alderperson trester I just wanted to clarify one thing I had asked the question When hiking along the lakeshore by whistling straights I was told unless my feet were wet. I was on private property So I think it's very important that we do stipulate Because according to the state if my feet are wet I could walk by The beach whistling straights, but if I'm on the sand it's their property It's a little more complicated than that, but uh generally the the constitution does protect Access up to the high watermark, which is why people use that wet foot analysis Well, this is a lake. It's not an ocean where the tide comes in and out So I would like to be able to be assured that if people wanted to walk along the sand That they would have permission to do so and that would be the purpose of This motion it would be to direct that the rights that people do have in the state of wisconsin to access would be protected and Obviously choler it would be illegal for choler to totally block that access But it is not necessarily illegal to do things on their own property that really make that difficult And so I would see this as You know basically a direction that we include in the pre annexation agreement an agreement with choler that they're not going To do anything that makes it more difficult For the public to to Have the access that they have the right to under the state constitution Thank you all the person sorenson. My motion is not to remain at this moment. I withdraw Okay, and uh ched pelichick Thank you for the discussion. I can support that. I think um the challenge Is is the fact that there's some places have riparian rights Where riparian rights go all the way out to the water's edge so to rose alderman tresters comments That would be the case in some places. It doesn't we have not seen a site plan We have not seen where property corners are we haven't seen where anything of that nature is so Um, albeit you can put this in agreement. You may Put this in agreement and direct this to the conditional use permit process and have the planning commission addressed that in further detail As part of it because as of now we have not seen a site plan and the maps that are shown are Primarily maps of the annexation area. It's not necessarily, you know, right on the property line That'll all come as part of a final survey So I think it's premature In nature to understand where that property line isn't is it in the water? Is it not in the water? And that will all come out as part of the development plans when they submit them So it may be who of you two have some language directing the Conditional use permit process through the planning commission to be able to address this issue Thank you for those comments all their person leave mendozki If we don't know what the site plan is going to be why are we even voting on it tonight? Are any other comments Any other discussion all their person trester? I have to agree we have been kept in the dark about a lot of things with this agreement and we have Nothing really but collars say so that these things are the way they're going to be And I would like to see us put this on hold until we have some more information your All their person trester you're ignoring the comments I made earlier and the ones that jad pelichak just made that this will be addressed In more detail in that uh conditional use permit Okay, but once we've already voted for the annexation and once we've already voted for this we can't go back And I'm saying put this thing on hold until we have more information We will not put it on hold until we have It has to be voted on before we will schedule anything on a conditional use permit They have to get all of their permits before we can condition Send out a can can prove a conditional use permits then some of us are going to vote no on the annexation. Well, that may be Is there any other discussion? Okay, we have a motion on the floor to create a clause in the agreement that would address Waterfront rights You ready for a vote You want me to read it? Does everybody understand the motion? I think they do. Okay. All those in favor when I see we'll do a roll call Right. Thank you All the person drawn Thank you. All the person ross I didn't hear it. Please repeat that all person ross Hi, thank you 14 eyes two nose Motion passes Under further discussion all the person sorenson. Yeah, so I think that was just an example of us shooting from the hip again Um, and I think that we're really picking things from the air. So I move that we refer this back to finance second We have a motion on the floor to refer back to finance Is there any discussion on the motion? Seeing none with a clerk, please call the roll for refree referral to finance Hold on just a second All the person drawn All the person ross Thank you. I've got it. I hit the wrong button. I've got to change my vote to me. I can change it for you. Thank you all been born May you said yes me Nine eyes seven nose motion passes Next we'll go on to 8.5 is general ordinance number six of 17 18 by all the person born in sorenson and nexing territory To the city of shaboy again All the person born Thank you, mayor. I make a motion to pass the ordinance Sorry, thank you for that motion and support the ordinance is before you for discussion all the person Holds you. Thank you. I have a number of questions That I have um, let me begin by we have gotten a number of emails from a lot of different people And I've been able to put three of the questions that were raised to rest one being that um Daryl attended a meeting in madison, which he did not Um attorney adam signing paperwork that the attorney from kohler drafted He reviewed them changed some of the verbiage And signed them, but he did not just get the letters from the kohler attorney. So that was nonsense as well and I can't remember what the other one is but I'm concerned because During um public forum and these hearings we listen to what everyone says, but we cannot comment As to what they say and we pretty much just listen And and my quit on my questions are And I'll save the biggest one for last is um I'm assuming just by All the chat that I heard from the town of wilson that nobody fertilizes their grounds or anything They're not allowed to do that in the town of wilson. So there's absolutely no fertilizer going on there Because the golf course Said that they reduce it to 20 percent. It wasn't that they didn't have any the in that meeting. It said 20 percent um I still struggle with land ownership That people who own property have the right to decide what they're going to do with that property I don't I'm Don't believe that we have the right to tell them Just like we wouldn't have the right to tell you who you could who couldn't sell your property to And it bothers me. Um, we did not have um They're saying that we the city of shabuigan did this all secretly. Well Color came to the city and filed an application To do an annexation. There was nothing secret about that So I you know, I I'm getting so I'm resentful for all the different things that and in city's remarks that they keep making About the city when we didn't bring this on ourselves They came to us. Am I in favor of it? Maybe not so much, but I don't like to be Um, you know get off the cross somebody else needs the wood I don't think that we constantly need to take the barrage of Of this and and you know you guys the town of wilson has had three years to work on this They've sent all their information to us To read so we've read three years worth of their research and some of it has turned out not to be the greatest tabits of information But and I and and we should look at the past behavior and the past behavior I recall very very distinctly with the field of dreams And I remember being threatened and I remember being harassed and that was all for the field of dreams This doesn't seem like it could go much differently But the one part that I'm very very concerned with and needs someone to answer the question is for the property on stall road Where um the 80 I forgot how old he was Fellow is forced to have to go into the annexation I totally do not agree with that and I wonder if someone could explain to me why we're forcing this person To annex I don't understand why we would do that to someone city attorney. Could you respond to that? so The statute Talks about how annexation occurs. So I'm going to go back to basics. First of all and explain a little bit of how municipal municipal government works in the state of wisconsin We have three types of municipalities towns villages and cities towns are designed to be sort of the You know the the areas the rural areas that are lightly populated don't provide any services Cities and villages are Level up. So when the statutes were were written, um, you know Basically having to do with the responsibilities of cities villages and towns annexations The idea was that you would have cities and as cities would grow. They would annex the area around them In the state of wisconsin, uh, there have been some changes to those laws that have made it a little more difficult for annexations to occur You'll see in some other states where they haven't made those changes Annexations have occurred. Um, you know much more often and generally, you know to the benefit of the general public That being said, however, the state Does provide um that there are a number of types of annexation and because annexation does Deal with the best interest not necessarily of one single property owner But of a larger group of people It is possible to do a non unanimous annexation They and that was what was done here in this case, uh, five of the six electors in the area signed on Had there been uh, there are some Safeguards in the law if enough electors in the area had been found to challenge they could have done that and You know, there there would be some additional requirements in that regard But the state law does indicate that there is an understanding that whenever you're annexing you're generally doing what's best for Or hopefully you're doing what's best for the group Rather than the individual and so sometimes you're going to bring people in That don't necessarily want to be brought in they're not losing their property They're just simply becoming citizens of the city of shabuigan because it is now recognized that they are No longer in a rural area, but they're now in a populated area Can I respond to that please is there any way Shape or form that we can Make sure that this fellow on stall road is not part of the annexation Because if we're going to force him I'm going to be forced to say no to this The the answer to that is no Because the city does not control The borders we can't amend the borders to the to the boundary agreement When coler came in with their request we're bound by those Even though we may not like those Boundaries for any number of reasons Thank you so much Administrator hoffman For approximately Hour hour and a half. We spent considerable discussion on the prenexation and development agreement I think some good changes were made Very thoughtful deliberation Ultimately a motion was made to refer it back to finance and personnel I know during that discussion several of you including Alder Donahue identified that Her concern was that you In essence are on the driver's seat of making these decisions and you're not deferring it Some of these critical things to the city plan commission The provisions of the prenexation agreement in fact could be covered by a conditional use permit And ultimately if there is a vote on the Annexation ordinance and then on the permanent zoning Then in essence you've lost I think your right to approve a prenex prenexation agreement As I mentioned it could be covered by the city plan commission But that would take you as elected officials out of that decision making process I sense that there is significant interest by the common council In proceeding with that prenexation agreement and so Until you were able to take a vote at a subsequent meeting As a result I would recommend that you table the next two items on the agenda to allow the Prenexation and development agreement to have its due consideration and be brought back before the common council as a whole Thank you Alder person Donahue And I would certainly support that in the meantime And I will make that motion if it's debatable It is debatable to send back to committee if that's what you're doing Well, I think I think what if this is a motion to hold That's debatable as well. It's similar and the only reason I say that is the Chair of the town of wilson and the chair of the town of wilson plan commissioner here And I would move to open the floor to them for their brief remarks and to answer questions that we might have of them I think as the collard company was able to present at the At the plan commission we should allow the the town of wilson officials to speak briefly regarding their Regarding their concerns. Is there any objection to opening the floor to john annman? I think we should do it at a later date, so we okay We have a request to open the floor We're putting that up to a vote Would the clerk please call the roll for opening the floor to the town chairman john annman And I just back up once because you had a motion to hold That's So, okay, we've got that seconded right and now you're going to make an additional motion And and this is just for the purpose of bringing mr. Emond and roger miller who's chair of the plan commission Forward to answer any questions That might be on people's minds now because as all their whole whole shoes said when we listen to people We're not able to respond to them or to ask questions and this would be an opportunity to do that So as there is some opposition, I would move formally that floor privileges Be granted to these two individuals And was there a second to that? I'll second that Sorry to either one Okay, both point of order. So what was that two motions? Can we only vote on one motion? We're only doing one motion at a time So which motion Opening the floor To two people and it was the town The town chair and the chair of the plan commission for brief remarks and to answer questions Okay, so we understand the motion we're voting on Click please call the roll Other person drawn Andy ross Thank you Nine eyes seven nose Motion passes gentlemen, please approach the podium floor is yours Good evening. My name is is john eamon and I am the chairman of the town of wilson And I would really like to thank you for the opportunity to speak with you this evening I I think that we may be able to add Some answer some questions that you have in particular, uh, roger miller Who has a lot of technical expertise in this? There's been a lot of I agree with one of the alderman Aller person saying that there's been a lot of misinformation around this and you know, we're here To try and talk about what what the objective facts are My message for you, uh, this evening is to really, uh, seriously Seriously consider the possibility that the path you are going down with this annexation and zoning In particularly the rushed way you were going about it, which I know a number of alder persons had some concerns over that Without the proper due diligence and debate is a it's a very precarious one and We feel it's an unnecessary one You know for you to reach the goals and get to where you want to be I I really hope that you understand that this type of non-unanimous annexation They're rarely used and they tear communities apart. I mean you can google it. That's the first thing that you're going to read It's plain and simple Your own manager of planning and zoning acknowledged this in emails to kohler company on may 19th 19th When he said this this is going to be a very controversial request So it's imperative that the kohler company provide all of the justifications They can as to why the plan commission and count common counsel should annex this property. I think that's sound advice He also added that these commissioners and all the persons Are going to be on the hot seat And I understand how that hot seat feels He also said that another issue I believe kohler company will need to be prepared to address is the fact of annexing people's property That do not want to be annexed. You should be prepared to appropriately address this sensitive issue I agree with that and uh, there is not only you should know that there is not only one residents that is being forced to annex There are several The the five People that I believe that sign the petition four of those are our rentals. They're not even property owners. They're renters of two kohler owned properties The fifth Is a woman who I've talked to and she told me the reason she voted for it because she was approached by the kohler company to Purchase her home and she felt that if she signed that she that would put her in a better position to get as much money for her property She wanted there's nothing wrong with that. I told her my advice to her was do what's best for you But you have to realize that these five signatures Are not looking at the best interests of the community in mind. They're looking at their their own interests And the owner of river of riverdale golf course is being Asked to required to annex a portion of his land So now a part of that golf course is in the would be in the city a part would be in the town And there are other property owners along this path that would be required to annex against their will as well So so please keep that in mind I hope you also realize how damaging this annexation will be to the town of wilson And i'm telling you it's really stressing our residents I've heard from countless numbers of people over the past several weeks and and They're they're mad as heck and they have no idea. They're in disbelief how this could even happen to them Not the golf course necessarily that's not what they're talking about some are some are for it But it's this antic forced annexation upon them And and as you saw this evening, you know, a lot of people are frustrated that they're not able to talk to you face to face about the annexation they Were kind of limited although they were kind of creative they were really limited to to the zoning And to that zoning and roger's going to talk a little bit more about this But I hope you also realize that the request for sr5 zoning in this annexation territory It obviously goes against your your long-term comprehensive plan And and your your your zoning map and that's why you have that before you this evening to amend the zoning map But the reason that you are you are You are rezoning to sr5 is is because It's not because the zoning change is consistent with the characteristics of that land And or with the permitted uses in the surrounding properties It's Instead to accommodate the request of one landowner And John yes, right now the item that's on us Agenda is just the ordinance to do the annexation the zonings are different items So if we could keep the presentation to the annexation, I'd appreciate it Okay, fair enough I will also ask you to to seriously take a moment and reflect and really ask yourself of this type of of hostile annexation Aligns with the values of our community and if it sets a good example for how local government should behave I also hope you realize how inept that doa report is And not because of its conclusion Um That doesn't surprise me really at all but because of the really Hibbs almost absurd way in which the doa justifies their conclusion Not only do they we believe they shoot themselves in the foot by misinterpreting case law But they make this absurd claim that the black river neighborhood And the colder property itself make made up almost entirely of dunal forest is urban in nature My goodness folks Come on. I mean how can anyone say that or anyone believe that really with a straight face So I hope you realize that's why we really seriously question the doa's can Report obviously as advisory to you. We just don't feel like you're getting good advice And we feel it's much more politically Derived than it is really legally justified So, you know related to that, you know, I lastly, I hope you understand why non unanimous annexations often lead to litigation and they are very expensive And I suspect that you do know that now Because that was all part of your your pre annexation agreement So I guess with that I'm going to turn it over to roger to talk about a few more of these issues in a little bit more detail Good evening ladies and gentlemen John and I both have busy day jobs just all of you and it's in our volunteer roles that we spend our nights like this So we understand the position you're in Also, each of us In our day jobs work far beyond just town of wilson or far beyond just the city We have financial and business interests in both. We have citizen interests in in both in fact Our radiuses of of really community interest are not only just the county, but well for johns are confined to the county But for me goes well beyond I did plan on just five minutes, but this floor and you folks we have brought up a couple of issues that are directly germane to annexation And I'm now confused on Council persons donahue motion Uh, did that motion read to open the floor to only the annexation subject or to both? Because it would be more efficient to do both, but if you want them one at a time I would like to of us to be able to provide town input on zoning because that also directly affects adjacent lands If you make a presentation on zoning, we have to do that when the next question is on the floor So you need to just deal with the annexation. I shall do so. Thank you um and and related and zoning is really the major issue because Zoning is relatively easy to change as needed on individual parcels through a rather routine process Which are plan commission leads, but of course the annexation is a much more durable complicated issue that involves many other factors Um and administrator hofflin introduced an idea tonight that to my knowledge is the first public information of and it's the first that I heard um going to This town of wilson platenap where city of sheboygan boundaries, which I agree with department of administration um reviewer eric schmitke our boundaries are Inconveniently irregular for a number of purposes Um, but they're not irregular because of either the town or the city doing any annexation actions They are all the result of over the years of successive successive unanimous consent annexations. In fact, if we go back a ways The zimbo link farm, which is an anomalous island within the city um That and the conical or refinery which was here where the piggly wiggly complex and stores are We're well outside of the city back from those things happened So uh, there's some older history that neither the city nor the town have exerted A municipal effort to try to clean up in the way that we handle it right between ton of wilson Public works and dave biebel's public works in the city as we've always collaborated together to provide convenient services To divvy up snow plowing We talk about road budgets. In fact right now in the course of planning along with the county Is the very important upgrade Of weeden creek road from 12th street To south business drive and the county will be presenting that plan So no matter what happens with annexation in the town We're going to continue to participate with your public works to provide good service economically to all citizens in both the town and the city now A brand new idea that just the city introduced this last week In spite of color company saying For three years and color company has done some good of water supply well tests for test wells In their property, which is this white zone That um, notwithstanding some of ton of wilson citizen concerns And I would like to help separate that ton of wilson citizens are speaking on their own be halves John and I are speaking officially On the part of the town, but you did hear tom stove a town A commissioner and nancy desjardins speak on some broader issues Yes, thank you on some broader issues But john and I are going to really confine ourselves to To the subject issue now the issue that Uh, Mr. Hoffman has just brought up is in addition to this idea last week That instead of color company using wells Color will spring for 1.8 miles of city water main from here down to here And that only came up last week And uh, and that won't be able to serve land to the west Or east because that state park It and town residences which already have water wells. It won't be able to serve Existing residences to the west because those are already served by private water wells But what mr. Huffman said tonight is the real idea is if we put that water line in And then if we put another one in here and then put a connecting loop Which is always a good idea for water mains In fact, it's not a good idea to have a dead end water main to just a seasonal demand because that's a big frost issue what what is what he's announced tonight And now is a bigger elephant Is uh, apparently just announced tonight city plans to be structuring water supply So that in addition to annexing this property They'll have infrastructure in place to begin annexing all of section 16 all of section 15 all of section 10 Think about that in your annexation considerations because That's never been mentioned before never talked about before wasn't before your plan commission You guys haven't talked about it your water utility which is headed up by joe trueblood Bright guy. He used to work for me his chief engineer rich dale used to work for me That's because working in the public sector tough as it is is easier than private consultancy Um, I stopped in to talk to them both of them were out in the field So I talked to damien junior engineer and that was just last Early last week and he said gee this idea was just presented to us We haven't had time to even begin our studies on it, but city has said yes They are now asked to begin that process Um, the idea of instead of just an eight or ten inch main being 16 inch as you mentioned Typical rule of thumb is 120 150 bucks a linear foot for one point point eight miles I'll let you do the arithmetic. Could you please get back on on the annexation? You're you're getting into water Well services are directly related to annexation In fact, they are the normal valid reason to justify an annexation So you can't separate the two So at any rate a typical cost is 120 150 bucks a linear foot for 16 inch waterline That's not counting the road repair cost. So just for that first segment You're probably looking in the range of one to one and a half million for that little bit Now, um I'm not going to talk about any of the other services Originally called our company said to the city. We need a city sewer because the city treats it better Last week john and I gave Council through sue richards an official submittal called Notes to council Now those are officially supplied even though they don't appear In your acceptance tonight, which surprises me Um, you don't have to answer the question, but I hope all of you have those into possession There's about four pages and a lot of information that's key information That if you're not informed of You really have no idea of the myriad of issues that are involved in services and annexation Now, uh, I'm going to touch briefly on the doa letter Town's attorney for that expert on that is bob's item He lives now in fint couver. He used to live in wisconsin. He spent a number of years in doa doing eric's job When and The reason the town submitted. Oh, so in doa review doa receives the petition Then they receive any written inputs The town of course provided written input That information is in the package you got for notes last week if you haven't reviewed that Which of course your plan commission couldn't because the issue came up so quickly So just you know the plan commission's review Couldn't even consider a lot of the information that was its duty as due diligence to consider Now eric says the reason or he says although this annexation geometry is not ideal That he thinks it's in the public interest because he's in his opinion The timber lake subdivision, which is right here Is of urban character In in some more information you're going to get tonight which john is going to hand out their photographs At these numbered locations and there's a key map on that that shows you the nature of that subdivision which is even More natural than the rest of all of this area which is in the town with residents served by Private wells, but eric feels should all be annexed to the city because he feels it's of urban nature Also in that packet is information on sr5 zoning. I won't talk about that itself explanatory Then he opines because that's of urban nature. This too Should be annexed even though it's the most natural lands Now i'm going to talk briefly about how contrived this connection is to the city Because you really need to know about that Because There is no reason that the city Should just say yes, and I don't think our citizens will let us but it'll be up to the town board and citizens I don't think they're going to say. Oh, yeah, it's okay Run a water line down here annex this now and now start working on all of these sections I don't think that's going to fly Haven't asked him, but that's the general gist of it In the annexation petition You may not have gotten the colored version So this blue geometry Is the same geometry as this um This first connection is important And there's a detailed photograph In the handouts john will give you But the beginning of the connection to the city Begins with this large lot that's in the city It's a high-end home right here next to the golf course in front of it is a rather new house right along double e This house has long had since it's beginning a private water well It's sanitary discharges directly to the town of wilson sanitary system Most of that lot is flood plain in wetland It cannot be developed or subdivided into any more residences as our shabuigan county economic developer says We need lots more land for more residences as I go down through this land through this string You will see there is not one opportunity for another residence for this annexation Nor is any proposed the next land down is the western portion of guy millers recently acquired riverdale golf course He is not a consenter. He did not sign what he was told by coller company didn't seem to make sense with him Now we're going to go down south a little bit So this bit Is right through here Now we're going to go down to this which is actually some land a witted wetland owned by the city That's an L shape that goes this way That of course is in there the city is not an elector so it doesn't get to sign the the elector petition The elector petition for the annexation has five signatures Two in one rented house two in another rented house one landowner. I'll get to that next as the basis for annexation Moving down the string a bit. This is the city owned lot Now it jugs east across the middle Of a lot that the fella died. It's in an estate there So there's no elector owner representative. So, uh, they can't can't even be a signature But they're not consenting it even divides their lot Between city or excuse me town city town now it crosses across some more of the golf course and now it heads east a little bit What is the one of the most gerrymandered things you'll see Roger, it's already been 20 minutes and this was supposed to be a brief presentation. So could you please wrap it up? Okay, dope I'm having to make up for no opportunity for the town to speak to the plan commission My only intent is for you folks to have some idea of what you're getting into So i'll wrap it up. So this house is 40 percent of the signers of the petitioners apparently, um They need services or something even though all houses around them don't well John is described that was recently purchased by coal company the sellers live in it now We cross these other lands Avoiding houses that objected. We come to nina staple. John talked about that she was I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You don't have the floor Um, her land cannot be developed now We have the second house that was purchased by coaler that has renters now We go up the driveway to a coaler subdivision which is almost 20 years old but not fully developed For some reason uh in the annexation is a large part of the state park That cannot be developed and then we get to that property So if you'd please read the notes that you were given Last week as soon as we knew this got on the agenda because your agenda only came out recently You will have just begin to be informed of some of the issues. There are a whole lot more Thank you very much roger. I'd like to call up david bevel david bevel David prepared some information for us on past history on annexations and I'd like to open up the floor to him for that presentation Thanks, mayor Jack, can you remove those maps that are blocking david's map? Thank you It's been a long night Very emotional Um from a lot of residents Many from the town of wilson some from the city of shabuigan but Tonight really is a watershed moment in the history of the city of shabuigan The city of shabuigan is over 150 years old And over its history Opportunities for growth and expansion have been presented to prior councils in the past and in front of you These maps in which on your table The eight and a half of 11 Depicts the history Of the city of shabuigan's Growth in its history of 150 year plus There's three There's 388 annexations that have occurred over the history of the city of shabuigan 388 Growth in expansion of cities is not only necessary, but essential for the overall health of a community Um, there's an offered david rusk Great book cities without suburbs and he states When city when a city stops growing it starts to shrink Bad state laws can hobble cities Neighbors can trap cities Old cities become complacent Young cities are ambitious and listening to a lot of the discussion takes me back about 30 years ago When the same issue was occurring on the north side of shabuigan when the town of shabuigan had Well, well issues Same issue. We're going to be good neighbors. We don't want to be annexed Let us put our own water system in We can have boundary agreements. We can share Well, let's let's let's take a look at that example Let's just take the last 20 years In 1990 the city of shabuigan had a census population of 49,587 10 years later in 2000 the census that population was 50,792 And the most recent census figure in 2010 The city of shabuigan's population was 49,288 And according to the department of administration in 2016 our population Is 48,653 I think that's a decrease in population not growth Let's take now. Let's take the town of shabuigan who 20 30 years ago we talked about non-annexing Because we want to be good neighbors In 1990 the town of shabuigan's population was 3,866 In 2000 That population grew to 5,874 And again 2010 That census population in the town of shabuigan now is 7,271 2016 the department of administration Their estimate 7,435 They virtually doubled in 20 years They've also had some major commercial development as we're all well aware of All the while the city constrained by its neighbors Not being able to expand has lost population further burdening the remaining tax base Even our neighbors to the south during this same time frame Has grown about 14 and a half percent in their population Annexations are fundamental and critical for cities to thrive Without annexations cities need some form of regionalization shared revenue agreements in order to be successful I haven't heard one offer tonight about shared revenues sharing Sharing tax base so forth The townships Thrive because of the close proximity to the city. It's convenient They can use our parks. They get the shopping districts. They can use the library. They can use the drop-off site Other services without having the burden of having to share in the taxes Is that fair? The issue tonight that our city faces is not about being a good neighbor It's not about a golf course It's not about environmental issues. There's other agencies and experts that will review and do the permitting on that It's not even about the coal or company No That's not that's not the issue. The issue is Is the future of the city of shuboigan? And i'm not talking just five years from now and how it's the return on the investment What's the cost of this infrastructure and we're how are we going to pay for this? No, we're talking 50 100 to 150 years from now They're going to say We had an opportunity to annex 500 plus acres potentially and What's what what what's that decision going to be? It's really I hope we look back on this moment And look at past decisions at the council and say what if We had a what if 30 years ago in the town town of shuboigan That we have the same dilemma this evening many of the past annexations As you can see when when annexations first developed there are nice square blocks as State law changed you can see the irregular shapes of annexations over time That's not uncommon. That's the norm State law practically dictates those proverbial balloon on the string And it's important it's important Quiet please irregular shapes all over this map if you look at them over the history are all in that case Many of the past annexations that the city has has that haven't been an issue is when the city's actually bought the land We bought land for the business center We bought the sugar property. We bought land for residential subdivision growth on norse When the city owns it it's it's really easy to annex rarely Do we get a private annexation petition to occur? this size We talked about shuboigan's population being stagnant for decades All the surrounding townships continue to grow If the city is continue to progress and grow Annexations will be unnecessary And strategic initiative that we're going to have to consider Put this in perspective The importance of this annexation This is the largest annexation of land for the city of shuboigan since 1959 You can tell everything this checkerboard. They're all small annexations rarely In the history. Do we get an opportunity like this that's presenting it this evening? so I ask when you consider please remember the issue is not about being a good neighbor It's not about a gulf course. It's not about environmental issues. And it's not about the cooler company It's about the future of the citizens of the city of shuboigan It's a riot If you want to leave you can leave but please be quiet Quiet please And you should respect this office and this this council Please proceed david Goodbye I'll close me For closing this out again The point being is that Anissations are difficult, but they are very necessary They're very necessary for the long-term growth and vitality of a community And if we don't take the opportunity to really seriously consider the long-term implications of expansion We're going to further constrain our existing tax base And it's it's proof in our population growth as the census figures demonstrate Thank you very much It's now we're back to General ordinance. Is there any other discussion on the general ordinance? This is a motion to hold There's a motion on the floor to hold Is that been seconded? It was made by alderman donaghew and seconded by alderman trester Very good Is there any discussion on that motion? To hold All the persons to that view Thank you, mr. Mayor if we this is a question directed to the city administrator if we If we choose to hold this Actually, what I mean to say is if we don't hold this now and vote on it Aren't we losing our leverage with the pre annex agreement? Thank you It's it's my opinion. Yes you would need to rely upon the city planning commission to Incorporate some of these provisions of the pre-anxation agreement into their conditional use some of you express concern of delegating that responsibility As opposed to it remaining here at the common council level. Thank you Is there any other discussion? All the person will thank you, mayor when we're making a making a motion and voting on The ability to hold Don't we need to at least put a date on it? I'd like to make a motion to to hold it over to july 17th meeting Thank you for that amendment. Is there a second second Okay, so we have an amendment on the floor to hold it over to uh july 17th Is there any discussion on that amendment? Seeing none will the clerk please call the roll Okay, all those in favor of the motion, please signify by saying aye opposed Okay, we can't do a roll call on that All right, okay, so we're going to do a roll call on that I can't hear a word you're saying what she said that was they said it was all eyes And so do we need to do a roll call? You just need to be clear. I think you just I would do it again and wait until the others have voted one way or the other Before you ask for the negatives Okay, all those in favor, please signify by saying aye Aye All the person drawn all right all the person uh, Andy ross Andy ross Aye And anybody against it Okay, the motion passes unanimously Now we have to vote on the motion as amended. So basically it's the same motion All those in favor of the motion as amended, please signify by saying aye Aye Andy Ross That was roman. Aye Andy ross. Okay, we have all eyes. That's unanimous. Okay. Now we're moving on to the The zoning document that's 8.6. I'd entertain a motion to hold that To the same meeting Thank you for that motion and support Is there any discussion on that motion? Seeing none All those in favor, please signify by saying aye Aye All the person drawn Aye All the person ross Motion passes unanimously Are there any other matters this evening? Yes city Attorney 9.1 is In RO by the city clerk submitting various license applications for the period ending December 31 2017 June 30 2018 and June 30 2019 That'll be referred to the law and licensing committee Item 9.2 is a resolution authorizing the purchase of 606 north 9th street Of the former social security office for future use by the city that will lie over Those are the other matters under section 9 Okay, next we have a contemplated closed session all the person wolf Thank you, mayor. I make a motion to uh to convene in closed session under exemption provided in section 19.85 sub 1 sub e Of the wisconsin stats Of where competitive bargaining reasons require the closed session related to a possibility acquisition and property between South business drive and interstate 43 and for the purpose of conducting Specified public business or competitive and bargaining reasons require the closed session To wit developing negotiation strategies for collective bargaining Thank you for that motion in second, but the clerk call the roll for closed session All the person drawn All the person ross Thank you And Susie could you please vote to go in the closed session Scott could you please vote to go in closed session What are you missing? I don't have a complete vote. Who didn't vote? I need Mike Ryan I Um We haven't finished the vote yet. We haven't finished the vote yet 15 eyes one no Okay, for the public at home this will end our broadcast for this evening. We'll be adjourning in closed session We're going to take a Three-minute break and then we'll reconvene Thank you very much