 Hi, thank you all for joining us here today on this kind of stuffy day in here. I'm Jesse Stollerkin with the Environmental and Energy Study Institute. You're here for our third panel, third group of panelists, which is biosolutions, biobased energy and materials. And we're really excited to have this panel, even though we have only have four people up here, four companies, it really highlights kind of the breadth of activities that's happening in the bioeconomy as we look towards not only renewable fuels, but power, renewable chemicals, and other products from sustainable feedstocks, including wastes. So without further ado, we're going to just jump right in. And our first speaker is Carrie Anand. She is the Executive Director of the Biomass Power Association. Hi, everyone, I'm Carrie Anand with Biomass Power Association. I thought today I would start by just giving you an overview of our industry and what we do. I'm going to give you a little bit of a status update on how our industry is doing. And then we're going to talk about how policy can really have a strong impact on our industry and on the growth of our industry. So Biomass Power Association, we represent domestic biomass power. We represent about 80 facilities across the country, most of them in forested areas. So if you think about a map of the country, we're talking about California, we're talking about New England, a few in the southeast, the upper Midwest. And by the way, there's three of us in our association and we also have an intern, Ellis O'Brien. I'm just going to give him a little shout out. Stop by the booth later and say hello to him. So our members across the country. We're using fuel that is derived from other industries by and large. So we're talking about wood chips, we're talking about rice and oat hulls. We're talking about forestry thinnings and nut shells and things that, you know, when you're thinking about the agricultural and forestry industries, we're talking about materials that can't be made into anything else. So, you know, you'll have a forestry operation where you'll see, and I've been to these sites where, you know, you'll, they're harvesting trees and the large trunks will go towards making lumber, you know, there might be another part of the tree where the fiber is going to making paper. And then we're talking about the fuels for biomass are the leftovers that can't be made into other products. So that's just to give you an idea of the use of biomass power. We there, there's several, there's a number of benefits that biomass power has. I'm going to touch on three of them. First of all, as you might expect, our members are based in rural areas where, as we all know, there's a need for strong industry and jobs and, you know, our members are located where they can support other members of the wood and agriculture supply chains. So that's really important. The second is carbon. You know, we are a renewable energy source where we did a study last year actually that that showed that we compared biomass power and to power from natural gas. And the result was that biomass power is 98% better in one, or I'm sorry, 115% better than natural gas on a carbon, you know, looking at the carbon profiles in one year and 98% better over 100 years. And that didn't even take into account. There was a recent study that came out in Science Magazine that showed that there's actually a lot more methane going into the atmosphere from natural gas than was originally thought, which is really a big deal because methane is much more powerful greenhouse gas than carbon. So biomass has a lot of carbon benefits. It's an important base load energy source that runs 24-7 and also is a great compliment to sources that maybe depend on weather like wind and solar. And then finally, I wanted to talk about the benefit of how biomass can contribute to forestry across the country. Biomass, as we talked about, is located primarily in areas where there is quite a bit of forestry. And you know, out west right now, we're having a forestry crisis. If you're not aware, just in the state of California, there are 129 million dead and dying trees according to the U.S. Forest Service. And biomass, having a biomass power facility, is a way to manage that waste. Biomass power is as much about materials management and waste management as it is about putting power onto the grid. In fact, more so because in a lot of cases, we really need outlets for the dead fibers that have no other use. So I want to shift gears a little bit and talk about what's the future for biomass. Right now our industry, if you look at our industry over the last decade or so, we've remained fairly stagnant. There's a handful of biomass power facilities that have gone online in the last maybe five years or so. And you contrast that with wind and solar, for instance, which have experienced a boom. I believe those two energy sources have grown five to eight fold in the last decade. And why is that? Policy. It really can make a huge difference in the growth of an industry. When we decide as a government, as a society that we're going to support a certain form of energy, that can have an enormous impact. And for biomass, for some of our other baseload energy sources like waste energy and hydropower, we've remained fairly stagnant while other sources of energy have grown. And part of that is due to the way that we treat tax benefits of our power sources. Currently, biomass power and some of our other baseload brethren are not eligible for tax benefits. And when you think about that in the context of the forestry crisis that we have, it doesn't really make any sense. We need biomass power. We need, you know, all of the above used to be a term that was thrown around quite a bit. And it's important that we, you know, if we're going to incentivize one industry, one renewable energy source, we should incentivize all of them, right? And another area of policy that could support our industry right now, the biomass crop assistance program, which is part of the Farm Bill, was actually passed on the Senate side, was not included in the House version of the Farm Bill. But it's really important because it's a policy that directly gets fiber out of the forest into a biomass power facility. And you know, I will wrap up. I wanted to touch on really quickly some of the technology advancements that are going to come down the pike for biomass. And I want to mention these because, you know, some of our members are experiencing shutdowns across the country. And we don't want to see that. We need biomass power around. It plays an important role for our energy systems. And in the future, things like carbon capture and sequestration, which are making very rapid advancements, can be applied to bioenergy. And that's actually taking carbon out of the atmosphere when you pair up those two technologies. So we're hoping to see, you know, through tax, through other policy measures, we need to support biomass and we need to make sure that it's around for a long time. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you, Carrie, for that overview of the biomass power industry and some of the policy drivers for your industry. So next we're going to hear from Kurt Kovaric. He is the vice president of federal affairs for the National Biodiesel Board. Thank you, Jesse. First, I'd like to thank the Bipartisan House Renewable Energy and Efficiency Caucus for hosting the event. I'd like to thank Jesse and EESI for organizing and moderating the event. As Jesse said, I'm Kurt Kovaric, I'm the vice president of federal affairs with the National Biodiesel Board, or NBB. NBB is the leading trade association in the United States representing biodiesel producers, feedstock suppliers, and fuel distributors across the biodiesel and renewable diesel industries. Does anyone here know what biodiesel is? A few of you? Okay, anybody know what ethanol is? Okay, we're not ethanol. Biodiesel industry is a growing dynamic and innovative industry that generates economic growth opportunities within the U.S. It also ensures environmental benefits. It is a simple solution, effective tool for reducing air and water pollution from diesel transportation. The main point that I want to leave with you today is that these benefits and the continued growth of the biodiesel industry rely on stable, consistent policy at the federal and state levels. And in this context, I will single out the renewable fuel standard as one of the most successful, even if not the most stable, policy that helps biodiesel. Biodiesel is a renewable, clean-burning diesel fuel that is made from an increasingly diverse mix of resources. Renewable diesel is another term used in the industry. It's also made from the same materials, but processed using a different process, one more similar to petroleum refining. So you'll often hear the terms biomass-based diesel and renewable diesel. It's the same product manufactured through different processes. Biodiesel is a nation's first domestically produced commercially available advanced biofuel. What do I mean by advanced biofuel? It's that the EPA has determined that over its life cycle from growing the crop to driving the vehicle, biodiesel reduces greenhouse gas emissions by more than 50 percent compared to petroleum diesel. In fact, biodiesel reduces life cycle greenhouse gas emissions by anywhere from 57 to 86 percent compared to petroleum diesel according to recent studies, including one by the Argonne National Laboratory. The 2.63 billion gallons of biodiesel used in the United States in 2017 reduced carbon emissions by 23 million tons compared to petroleum diesel. In more relevant terms, it's equal to removing more than 5 million passenger vehicles from America's roadways. On top of the carbon emissions reductions, biodiesel also reduces tailpipe emissions. Its combustion is cleaner than petroleum diesel. Biodiesel is used across the country from coast to coast for farm equipment, heavy duty trucking, and fleets, such as emergency vehicles and buses. Unless you drive a diesel vehicle, you're probably not familiar with biodiesel like you would be with ethanol. Biodiesel, however, different from conventional ethanol, does not require special fuel pumps or any type of engine modifications. In fact, the majority of automobile engine manufacturers support biodiesel blends up to 20 percent in their warranties. Biodiesel meets a strict fuel specification set by ASTM, and the NBB supports a national biodiesel accreditation program called BQ9000. It's a cooperative voluntary program for accrediting producers and marketers of biodiesel fuel. The program goes beyond ensuring that biodiesel meets the ASTM standard and ensures equality across the entire fuel management chain from storage to blending and distribution. Biodiesel is also geographically diverse. It's produced in nearly every state. The industry supports more than 60,000 workers from Nevada, Rhode Island, Vermont, Oregon, Iowa, Texas, Rhode Island. These workers earn a total of two and a half billion in annual wages, and the biodiesel industry generates more than 11 billion in economic activity each year. In many rural areas of the country, biodiesel plants are the driving force of the local economy supporting the employment of technicians, plant operators, engineers, construction workers, truck drivers, and farmers. In fact, every 500 million gallons of biodiesel production directly and indirectly supports about 16,000 jobs. Producers across the country are planning to expand production on higher new workers if they see a signal of steady growth under the renewable fuel standard. Currently approximately 70% of U.S. biodiesel is made from agricultural oils, primarily soybean, but also corn, camelina, and canola oils. Biodiesel made from corn oil is an example of a new feedstock. It simply wasn't produced and used for fuel 10 years ago prior to the RFS. Corn oil is a byproduct of the ethanol production process. They spin off the corn oil, we turn it into biodiesel. The other 30% of U.S. biodiesel comes from used recycling cooking oil and animal fats. Biodiesel provides price support for soybeans and other oil seed crops that allows U.S. soybean farmers to be more competitive in the global market. Getting more value for their crops allows farmers to compete for export opportunities. At the same time, biodiesel is diversifying our fuel supplies. Despite increased domestic oil production, consumers remain vulnerable to volatile international oil prices. Diversity and competition in the fuels market is an important aspect of energy security. The renewable fuel standard is designed to support production and use of increasing volumes of advanced biofuels such as biodiesel each year. It has been the foundation for the biodiesel industry's growth over the past decade and remains a driver of new investment as well as job creation. Policy certainty from the market growth has helped biodiesel producers make significant investment decisions in infrastructure, new feedstocks, and expanded production. Over the past decade, the RFS has been a tremendous success for biodiesel and it has enjoyed strong bipartisan support. Under this policy, the biodiesel industry has consistently proven its ability to do more to produce increasing volumes. The U.S. market has supported demand for more than 2.5 billion gallons of biodiesel each year since 2013. In its most recent proposal for the annual RFS rules, the EPA projected production and use of 2.8 billion gallons for 2019. As a result, the agency proposed raising the required advanced biofuel volumes for 2019 to 4.88 billion gallons and proposed increase of biodiesel volumes, the floor beneath the biodiesel industry by 330 million gallons for 2020. Those are positive steps and positive signals to the biodiesel industry and we hope that the industry will remain firm in setting those volumes and ensuring they are met. With stability in the RFS and signals for ongoing growth, the biodiesel industry will continue to invest in infrastructure, diversify the use of feedstocks, and expand biodiesel blending. That expansion will help the environment increase jobs and improve our economic rural areas. In conclusion, the biodiesel is a homegrown renewable energy produced from agricultural oils and animal fats that are byproducts of protein production and recycled and used cooking oils. Our market is not currently constrained by any blending limits. Our feedstocks and geographic production locations are diverse. We have a significant greenhouse gas reduction profile compared to petroleum diesel and we look forward to increasing domestic production and use to further clean the air, water, and create jobs here in the United States. Thank you very much. Thank you, Kurt, for that overview of the biodiesel industry and the importance of the RFS to that industry. Next, we're going to hear from Arlen Peters, who's the head of sustainability and a Nova Zines. All right. Thank you to the organizers of this session and to all of you for attending. As mentioned, I'm Arlen Peters. I'm the head of sustainability for Nova Zines. For those of you who have never heard of Nova Zines, we are a biotechnology company and the world's leading producer of enzymes and microorganisms. Our company purpose is to find biological answers to improve people's lives in a growing world. We are a company focused on innovation, holding over 7,000 patents. We spend about 15% of our revenue on R&D and generally are a bunch of engineering and science nerds. What are enzymes, you might ask? Enzymes are like nature's toolbox. They're found almost everywhere in all living things. When an organism, whether it's a bacteria in the soil, a flower in a garden, or your uncle Earl in Scranton, needs something to live, enzymes are mobilized to carry out the millions of chemical reactions that they need to do that thing. Okay, I'm going to ask you to do me a little favor. Could everyone here please breathe? Good job. Okay. Good. Good. You have just used an enzyme called a carbonic anhydrase that works in your body to transfer CO2 from your body and blood into the air and allows you to breathe. It's specific and it's fast. In fact, it's one of the fastest enzymes on the planet. One enzyme molecule can catalyze a million reactions a second. Now I'm sure you're aware that we are in the middle of a biotechnology revolution. For example, sequencing the first human genome cost about $1 billion and took 13 years to do. Today it can be done in one day at the cost of only $1,000. That's exciting stuff and there are many companies that can tell you how biotechnology is revolutionizing medicine. But I'm going to talk to you about a quiet revolution that's occurring in your home and is almost as important. I'm going to talk to you about your dirty laundry. That's right, your dirty laundry. Remember the catalytic action of enzymes? Well, enzymes have been used for many years to take out grease, grass, blood, and other stains. Enzymes have also catalyzed a revolution in how we wash clothes. This has largely occurred unnoticed, but you can see it if you compare the size of the laundry detergent bottle from a decade ago to that one from today. What I'm talking about is called compaction in detergent industry jargon. Just look at a detergent bottle a decade ago. It was so big. You remember these things, right? Well, maybe some of you don't remember these things. For those of you who are my age, they're probably about this big. They were very, very heavy and they were so big, in fact, that you could probably use them in your CrossFit routine. Today, detergent is about two times, four times, even eight times more concentrated. Using enzymes, we've been able to create more cleaning power while taking out surfactants, solvents, and other chemicals. Why is that important? Well, it has to do with the life cycle of the product, going all the way back to raw materials for detergents. Less chemicals means fewer inputs, less energy to make those inputs. It also means fewer chemicals down your drain and into the water supply. Less weight in your detergents means less energy to transport it. So if you've ever felt what it's like to lug a big bottle of detergent from the grocery to your home, imagine that times the millions of units that are transported every day from factories to retail shelves and to your home. I'd also like to tell you about another way in which biotechnology has helped to reduce the biggest greenhouse gas impact in laundering. Some years back, Procter and Gamble, the maker of tied detergent, realized that the biggest greenhouse gas culprit in laundering came from heating the water in your wash. So they asked NovoZone, our company, for a cleaning solution that could work in cold water. So remember how I said that enzymes are specific? That means that they will only do one job. Imagine if you had a hammer that would only hammer an aluminum nail. It wouldn't hammer an iron nail. It wouldn't hammer a wooden peg or a crab leg or your thumb. You can see how that precision would be extremely useful. It could also be a big challenge to find the right enzyme. But that's what we do. We search the world over to find novel enzymes and figure out applications for these powerful tools. The journey to get to cold water detergents reads like a national geographic story. It involves the discovery of the hexahydrate of calcium carbonate called ekyte, which had been found to be able to support life in the form of microbes underwater at very cold temperatures. A team of adventurous microbe hunters from NovoZone's travel to the Eka Fjord in southern Greenland, which is surrounded by a series of extinct volcanoes. Rainwater percolating through these volcanoes dissolves minerals and then finds its way into the fjord. When the mineral-rich rainwater meets sea salts, the rare ekyte is formed as a sort of inverted stalagmite, five feet tall. In these columns, they found previously unknown microorganisms and enzymes, which developed over time to survive in the highly corrosive cold liquid inside the pillars. The team harvest the ekyte by diving below the surface of the freezing water and using an ordinary garden saw to cut off sections of the column. This journey, as well as searching through the countless other strains in our labs and testing against precise wash conditions, ultimately resulted in the first ever cold water detergent called cold water tide. But the journey doesn't end there. It continues with you, the consumer. If everyone in the US lowered their washing temperature from hot to warm and warm to cold, it could save $1 billion in energy bills and 7.4 million tons of CO2 a year. But we need to have a revolution of sorts. It's not a difficult revolution. In fact, it's as easy as turning down the dial on your washing machine. So I invite you to turn down the dial in your washing machine and make the easiest change you can to save your planet. And also, you can come visit us at our table over there in the Rayburn Auditorium and learn more. Thank you. Thank you, Arland, for that fascinating look into the world of biotechnology and how we're really just at the beginning of this complete revolution in terms of what biotechnology is going to provide. So last but not least, we're going to hear from David Biederman, his CEO and executive director of the Solid Waste Association of North America. Thank you. Good morning, everybody. I'm David Biederman with SWANA, Solid Waste Association of North America. And for the most part, I'm not going to talk about dirty laundry. I'm going to talk trash. SWANA is the largest association in the waste sector in the United States and Canada. We have about 10,000 members and 45 chapters. And the thing about the solid waste industry is that there's a lot of six-year-old boys and probably girls who grew up saying, hey, I want to be a garbage man. But now that we're all adults or pretending to be adults, very few of us want to do waste collection for a living because it's really tough work and hard work. But it's a very important blue-collar industry. And it's growing in the United States. And it's really important that we all be knowledgeable about it and we have policies that support the efficient and environmentally protective collection of waste and recyclables. And I'll be talking about recyclables in a moment. So this is the Clean Energy Expo. And in previous years, I've talked at length about how the waste sector is an important component of America's renewable energy portfolio. More than a third of the landfills in the United States actually generate renewable energy. So what happens is that decomposition occurs in the landfill. And rather than just letting that methane go up into the sky because that's bad for the environment and is a climate change contributor, we collect and process that and then convert that into energy that's then put into the grid or sold to a nearby user. Our industry also operates about 75 waste-to-energy facilities like the big smokestack just south of Baltimore on I-95 that has the word Baltimore on it that I'm sure some of you have seen. And that generates power as well from material that would otherwise be buried. We like to say that there are days when the wind doesn't blow and the sun doesn't shine. But we generate garbage in America every single day. And so we're an important part of baseload energy in the United States. But it's not just about the renewable energy. It's not just about the energy benefits. It's about the environmental benefits because these facilities have a huge impact on greenhouse gas emissions. The waste sector reduces greenhouse gas emissions by about 42 million metric tons of CO2 equivalent annually. That's a really big number and tough for people to get their arms around. So it's the equivalent of 46 billion. That's with a B, billion pounds of coal that we don't have to collect and burn because we generate so much garbage. Now, that's all I'm going to talk about the clean energy component of this because there are other more important things that I think you want to know about and that relate more closely to the topic, the panel topic. I want to briefly cover two topics. Food waste diversion and the current state of recycling in the United States. So this is the audience participation portion of my presentation. I'm not going to ask you to breathe. You're going to do that all on your own. I know that. How many of you favor the idea of diverting food waste away from landfills? Raise your hand. Some people haven't raised their hand. That's interesting. So I'm glad to see that the majority of people in the room support these programs because in many West Coast cities in northeastern states, over the past decade there's been an acceleration in diversion programs where food waste is no longer sent to a landfill but instead is separated at the source and then is repurposed or used as an energy source. We're very prolific generators of trash in the United States. We generate 260 million tons a year of solid waste and about 15% of that is food waste. So that's like 38, 37 million tons and that's just the waste part of the food. That's the stuff that's on our plates. That's the stuff that's in our yoga containers or the leftover food from the buffet. That doesn't even include what we call food loss. Food loss is when food is rotting in the field or goes bad in the distribution sector as it makes its way to the store or goes bad at the giant. And so there's been this big interest in reducing the amount of food that we generate and throw away. There's some studies that say close to 40% of the food that's grown in the United States is thrown away and frankly even though I represent the solid waste sector, I think it's more important to feed people and not landfills, just don't tell my members I said that. But it's true. And luckily there's all this innovation going on, all this technological advancing going on that we've seen new food waste facilities start up all over the United States. These things called anaerobic digesters convert organic material such as food waste into biogas for heat and energy. Some of the material that's going to landfill then gets repurposed as biodiesel actually is renewable diesel so that's helpful. And we're also starting to see food waste that's source separated be sent to wastewater treatment facilities including blue planes here in the DC area where that material is added to the mix and generates additional energy. So food waste is one of the interesting paths that the waste industry which most of you think of is the people who collect the can and put it back in the wrong place every day or whenever they come and pick up your garbage. Food waste is an area that's been a lot of activity and that includes here on the federal level. Congresswoman Pingree from Maine has introduced food waste and recovery bills in this Congress and the previous Congress and in the last couple of months established a congressional food waste caucus highlighting the importance of this issue here on the Hill. In late 2015, the US EPA and the Department of Agriculture set a 50% food waste reduction goal by 2030. That's the only national policy or goal we have around waste reduction and recycling. This has created additional tailwind for investments and for companies and local governments to invest in food waste diversion programs. And so for example, New York City large commercial food waste generators are now required to separate their food waste from the other waste and recyclables that they generate and the haulers that come out and collect that material are required by law to collect it separately and bring it to separate facilities that are licensed by the city. And just to give you a sense of the scale the New York City Department of Sanitation is currently collecting food waste to nearly three million New Yorkers. They consider that a pilot program. It's the biggest food waste program in the United States but they consider that a pilot. And again, this is not just the right thing to do for the environment. It creates jobs and it generates a state and local tax revenue. And for 2016 and 2017 food waste diversion was the hottest topic in the waste industry. But then in the middle of 2017 something changed. It's become a much lower priority. And that's because about a year ago China announced that it was gonna be banning their import of scrap and recyclables from other countries. How many of you are aware of that? Raise your hand. Okay, good, good. So I'm sure many of you have seen pictures from Beijing of how bad the air quality is and people wearing masks and you can't see across the street. Well, they have an equivalent problem with waste handling and our sending waste and recyclables over to China has not helped them in address that issue. And so they're closing the door to waste and recyclables not just from the United States but from Europe and Australia, Japan and other places. The impact that has though on the United States is significant. We export close to a third of all of our recyclables, 16 million tons a year. And the majority of that material went to China. So as a result now, the largest buyer of recyclables for municipal recycling programs is no longer buying. What does that do to the price or value of that stuff? Anybody who was an economics major goes down. So there's less value associated with it. Why did China impose these rules because they wanna have cleaner material going to their country? So our members are now adding labor, adding new machines to try to clean up the material, pulling out the bad stuff that's not supposed to be in recycling bins. So they're spending more money at a time that they're getting less money for recycling. And with due respect to Arlen and the laundry detergent, taking big 200 ounce laundry bottles out of the recycling stream and instead of having those pods that aren't recyclable is very bad for recycling systems. It might have other energy benefits, but that's one example of dozens of light weighting of recyclables that have occurred. Think about the water bottles that you're using. They're thinner, the plastics thinner than it used to be. That's a great technological advance, but if you're running a recycling program, that means you have to run a third more material through that system in a shift to generate the same amount of material that you generated five years ago. So SWANA is educating folks on the Hill and elsewhere about this problem that we have with China. Recycling creates jobs in the United States. It protects the environment. It reduces greenhouse gas emissions and it preserves landfill space for the stuff that really needs to be in a landfill. And so our number one policy issue at the moment is educating members and staff about the need to include recycling in the upcoming infrastructure bill, which is an issue that I think we're gonna be dealing with on the Hill over the next year or so. We've met with some congressional officers, offices, excuse me, we've got other meetings scheduled. We need federal support for recycling education. Americans don't do a really good job of recycling. They throw the wrong stuff into the bin. Dirty diapers, bowling balls, ammunition, hoses. People are aspirational or wishful recyclers. And I'm sure one of two of you in this room have done that as well. And if you want to see it, go to Union Station. I travel by train a lot and every time I'm there, I'm the guy looking in those damn recycling bins and I just shake my head because there's so much stuff in there. That's not recyclable. So it's really important for us to do a better job of recycling. It's really important for us to support the waste sectors, programs to support local governments, municipal recycling programs. The best way to do that is to have recycling be part of the infrastructure bill so we can avoid some of the problems that we now have with municipal recycling. And if you want to learn more about this, just Google the words China and recycling and you'll see articles from the New York Times, Boston Globe, USA Today, and a dozen other major newspapers just over the last 45 days because this issue is emerging as a major national issue and we hope for your support. Thank you very much. Thank you, David, for that update on some of the challenges. The solid waste industry is currently experiencing. It's really fascinating. We have a couple of minutes to take some questions and I also just wanted to update you all. We have learned that the AC is indeed not working in this room and it's not going to be fixed today. So if you need, please go get a drink of water, get some fresh air, take a break. But are there any questions in the audience today? The one in the back here? I know that we aren't specifically looking at that. I think food waste is really one of those very interesting topics because every time we've looked at food waste, one of the issues that comes up is the fact that the supply chain for that is so fragmented that it's very, very difficult to concentrate enough of it into a place where you can really do something meaningful. One of the things, though, that we have looked at is how do you reduce the amount of food waste that gets into the system by ensuring that food lasts longer and more of it actually gets to a consumer's table at the end of the day? And one of the areas that we've looked at is called fresh keeping in bread and it's about extending the shelf life of bread using enzymes. We've also looked at other types of technology that could do a similar thing with other kinds of food but converting it into, I should also say that we're not in the pharmaceutical industry so that might also play a factor into there. But you can imagine converting it into something else and every time we've looked at that specific thing we just didn't see the economics of a biotech solution there. Any other questions from the audience? Do you guys have anything else you'd like to add? Okay. There's a question. Oh, there's a question over here. Sure, go ahead. Sure. There's a lot of interest in my industry in creating a circular economy or closed loop, so to speak, regarding waste and fuel. We collect all the waste and wouldn't be great if that could be feedstock for fuel and in fact that happens at a number of landfills in the United States where the material is actually converted directly into fuel at the landfill and so a truck will literally dump its load at a landfill and then move to the fueling station located on the landfill and get fuel that six months earlier had actually been garbage. It's actually magic. I'm not an engineer. I don't know how it happens, but it does. And it's happening with increasing frequency. The other thing in the fuel space that I just want to briefly mention is the waste sector is a real leader in sort of clean energy getting away from traditional diesel. More than 50% of all the new garbage trucks put into service per year now don't run on diesel. They run on compressed natural gas. And so the carbon footprint of our industry is decreased rather dramatically over the last 10 years because the way our trucks and fleets operate, we can convert to CNG more easily than over the road long haul which requires an infrastructure of CNG facilities all over the place. So we think we're making a pretty big contribution to reducing our reliance on fuel and waste to fuel as a component of that. Okay, great. I think it's time for us to wrap up our panel with that. I'd like to just please join me in thanking our speakers here today. Thank you.