 Yeah, it's fine Yeah The proper use of the road is to point it down at your hands. No, I think it's fine. I don't think it's that one Hello everybody out there. We're we're live and you're all asleep if you're American Yeah, it's it's almost midnight Pacific Coast, it's past midnight East Coast though, right? Yeah Yeah So apologies for the schedule snafu, I know a lot of people were like where's the show today, and I'm like I tried to tell you Welcome to our world. Yeah. Yeah First time I've been on the well actually no I've been on the show in America and we're right or I haven't had to get up It very silly times. Yeah. Yeah, most of the time when I've been on the show Back home. I've had to get up at about four in the morning Yeah, no Peter is a better man than I am because for my own show. I was not willing to get Whereas Peter has and Raj has Yes, we do have beers because it's four in the afternoon here Exactly, and if you're in Melbourne, please come down to Bartronica at 6 p.m Oh, right if you're watching live in Australia, which is more likely to be anybody happens to be watching Yeah Bartronica on Flinders We are gonna be there from six to about eight Don't miss it And what is the the chat link IRC dot chat realm dot net I Just realized the one thing I don't have I'll put it in post but it won't be for good day internet It won't be on the YouTube is the music, right? I didn't didn't bring your iPad I brought the iPad, but I brought no way of connecting it into my System I usually use a USB mixer which I cheaped out and did not pack right right right would have solved so many problems for James But James overcame my oversight and we're here anyway, so We didn't Ordered one on Amazon Prime now damn it We have Amazon now right or not yet. We have we have Yeah, not good Amazon so so far. We've got Amazon that it's okay for books and Kindles and Everything else is pretty much drop shipped from America. So it's yeah, it's basically a very nice storefront for Ali Baba right Somebody was going to try to buy something and have it shipped to someone here From like they were in the US so they were to go on Amazon and have it shipped here And they're like no we can't do that. Yeah, I Think it's just because of the things with the restrictions on what's actually in the catalog maybe yeah Yeah, yeah, I keep meaning to have things ordered and sent to my hotel for when I am in the States I There's there's a journalist who often travels with me who like on the third day I walk out and she's got like seven boxes from Amazon of things. She can't order Oh, what do I never remember to do that? Or maybe we'll just all sing the music You play it off my phone I've got it all in here. So it'll just take me another minute or two extra after we're done. Are you guys ready to give get rolling? Yeah, yeah, all right. We have We have three or four people in the chat room including W. Scott is one who's still up look at that. That's fantastic. All right And you've tweeted out a link and all that Yeah, it auto tweets when I when we go live. So hopefully a couple more Hello All right Here we Go Daily tech news show is powered by you to find out more head to daily tech news show comm slash support This is the Daily Tech news for Monday May 21st or is it Tuesday May 21st or by the time you're listening to this in Australia might be Wednesday May 23rd from Australia, I'm Tom Merritt and Joining me very happy to have Peter Wells reporter for the age Tom good to have you here, mate. Thank you for for having me also Raj de ute editor of Reckoner Hello, how are you good? Good? Thanks? Thanks for joining me man At a decent hour for all of us very happy that it's a decent hour for a change Hmm. It has actually just turned happy hour here. Yeah, which already got the beers out We do we it's a it's a beer Friday on a Tuesday, which is some people's Monday and we'll soon be Wednesday Uh, yeah for those of you I I've decided now I was thinking about this There was a lot of confusion over when today's episode was gonna come out because we're doing it afternoon Melbourne time and Afternoon time is like midnight In Pacific time or 11 p.m. Or something like that and so you'll end up actually kind of getting two episodes on a Tuesday For those in the the other hemisphere That other hemisphere over there that we're not in that now doesn't matter to me suddenly because I'm not in it But it made me think a lot of people in the US listen to daily tech news show the next morning Because it comes out in the afternoon and they're like, oh, I'll just listen to it the way in I You know, I've noticed how it is definitely a morning show in Australia because it records about 4 a.m. So by the time you get up and get ready, it's it's the perfect morning show So really we should be introducing Dtns with the next day's date or your days of date dts is like my morning Riding to the train. Yeah, right to work on the train. Like, yeah, these are the headlines. Oh, these are the headlines I'm gonna talk about today on on rekenow It's a very informative service that I used now I'm sure Sarah and Roger will stop me, but I've decided to always use Australian dates for now Excellent, but that won't work Well, welcome everybody to our roundtable show. It's a little bit different Usually we do these on Fridays at the end of the month but because I was going to be in Australia the timing worked out for us to do it a little bit earlier and It's the show we do once a month where we expand the regular show into a full-fledged roundtable discussion We do a full hour of discussion while we cover all of the topics of the news of the day in those discussions We will still start with a few tech things you should know So it's to sell Reuters that the US and China are near to a deal to remove the order banning the US from Supplying ZTE that deal may involve China removing tariffs on agricultural goods from the US But that might mean ZTE would unpause its business Hmm. I don't know the format. Sorry. Am I allowed to get a little bit? Yeah. Well, you get one one or two lines Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it just this is actually a big deal for us as well because everything you do Becomes a trade deal between us and so ZTE is now no longer available here and that that's actually a lot of the The phones that say your Telstra and your opto cell unbranded are ZTE handsets So I know a lot of people at Telstra particularly are scrambling over this news. Yeah Take the next one Intel and Microsoft disclosed Monday that a new method of exploiting the spectra and meltdown security floor has been discovered Intel calls it variant for classified as a medium risk And it has been seen seen in the wild and a fix has been made available to manufacture It is not it has not that's an important. Yeah. Yeah type out there that I got it Facebook announced that it's project TerraGraph which aims to connect neighborhoods and businesses with gigabit wireless will begin field tries in 2019 in Budapest and Kuala Lumpur TerraGraph is designed to replace fiber and cable broadband not replace Wi-Fi. It's not like a home thing It's a neighborhood thing. It uses 60 gigahertz technology from Qualcomm and 802 dot 11 a y Which is the successor of 802 11 a d just for the Aussies. We say Kuala Lumpur Kuala Lumpur. Yeah. All right How do the people in Kuala Lumpur feel about that? Microsoft launched SharePoint spaces a way to view company Oh God a way to view company documents in mixed reality headsets as well as a standard web browser A new point-and-click interface makes it easy to build the experiences as well Examples include a 360 video to familiarize employees with the campus 3d product prototype Demonstrations and more exciting visualizations of Excel data. Yeah, that was the best one right there I've actually I've been to a Microsoft event where they had the the virtual Room set up and it was basically like walking around Tony Stark's apartment But there were Excel spreadsheets on the wall and I just thought who would want this experience They had like a map with the data arising out of the regions and it's very impressive Google removed the main instance phrase Don't be evil from its code of contact sometime in late april or early may The phrase has been google's unofficial motto and part of the code of conduct since 2000 With a long description out of it saying this is why you shouldn't be evil. This is what that means Now all of the things about why you shouldn't be evil and what it means are still there It's the phrase that disappeared The phrase hasn't entirely been expunged though. It is mentioned still in the final line of the code of conduct document That line is don't be evil. And if you see something that you think isn't right speak up So it's kind of just bad pr more than anything. I don't know why it disappeared Yeah, that that's what I was going to say I mean once you are known as the company that has don't be evil in your in your code of conduct or whatever It was in your motto You can't take that away. You just there's no way you can take that away without everyone reading into that Yeah, I I feel like it was a mistake that somebody who didn't realize edited the document or something weird Chinese regulators approved the sale of Toshiba's chip unit to bane capital Toshiba memory is the number two producer of nan chips in the world all antitrust approvals have now been received That was a that's a big deal. China was holding up and it was looking like they may not be able to sell that It's a big deal for Toshiba because of Westinghouse bringing them down. So that that's that's another It's another significant move in the whole Chinese tariffs international trade relations situation Finally the website finder.com.au says its survey shows the average amount spent on a mobile plan in Australia has declined from $48 a month to $44 a month The drop is attributed to fewer people paying off the cost of their handset as part of a mobile bundle 26 of Australians Were on a mobile bundle this past year down from 36 last year That makes total sense to me from the from the people I know I think that you know the main bell curve the main people in that bell Are probably still just on a two-year plan and they they upgrade when their two-year plan ends But I know a lot of people on the sides there that the kind of nerds who upgrade all the time Have totally gone prepaid and and have moved to buying their own devices outright And then on the other side of that spectrum There are the people who are just holding on to their iPhone 6 or whatever it was because it's still a very good device And and they've taken that opportunity to drop down to a lower tariff. Yeah I mean I do it with my mom where I send the phone that I've been using to her because I always buy it unlocked And it gives me that flexibility. I don't have to worry about it being locked or unlocked or anything It's always mine. I've paid it off because I'd buy it Outright and then I can buy a new one myself And it's always fun to watch the accounts catch up as we move the sim card It'll be a couple months where it'll be like, we don't know what device you're on and then they'll finally figure it out somehow All right, uh, let's start with our four. We've got two, uh, patron suggested discussions that we're going to do today The first was suggested by alan char He asks how deadly are the creatures in australia really? Uh, then says more seriously in what ways does australia's proximity to asia affect australian tech on his first question I've not yet been killed. I've been here a week and a half Yeah, yeah, uh, we do have quite the selection of deadly sort of animals around Where I grew up we had gray white sharks There's also redback spiders and the brown belly No, the brown snake Yeah, the brown snake which are three of the most dangerous Animals in the world. Uh, the the the pretty, uh, prolific when it comes to the top 10 of deadliest animals I grew up regularly having redback spiders in my woodshed And um, I tragically went to school with people that were taken by great white sharks outside Oh, wow. Yeah, so it isn't, um, the most ridiculous concept Uh, I don't shouldn't laugh. So I don't go in the ocean personally Well, we have show we have great whites in california as well, but it seems like they're not the same Come on somehow. Oh yours are worse. Well, where I grew up is a migration point. Oh, okay Place called port lincoln. So it's um, they are very common there and people Travel from around the world specifically to go, uh, cage diving with great white sharks So it's known as a um, as a point to go see them But yeah, there's a there's a lot of stuff around that'll kill you here But it's not it's not like they're walking down the street with you. I haven't even seen a wombat The deadliest thing I've encountered was a magpie going off way too early in the morning Well, they will they will hurt you. Yeah, they sweep you I've had cuts on my head as a child from them sweeping or if you're a cyclist going to work during, um, Nesting season they will savage you a magpie Anyway, so come down. It's a it's a great place to visit Visit that's it for the australian tourism board now for the second part of the question Um, I I think sadly I wish we were more integrated in asia in terms of tech I think there are many opportunities there that we're missing out on that Is probably due to kind of a political Uh thing and not a specific political party or anything but just a kind of a strange hold back of of Whatever is is promoting that I don't want to get too far into politics Well, it it seems like you should have an influence because you're so close to china and indonesia But Proximity and geography is not the same as proximity and trade relations or or whatever In the psychographic space australia is much closer to the united states and europe, right? Absolutely, and and and I think that's one of the reasons why One of the benefits that Asian companies see in australia is that they they there are quite a few Asian companies that will use australia as a kind of test bed For their products and also to test kind of how their marketing message works in the ua in a western Market because you know, we're a very small market. So you can make mistakes here and it doesn't really impact too much But we're even though we're a small market. We're a very, you know, highly developed market We we buy a lot of tech. We're very early adopters according to all of the studies We say, you know, we tend to buy phones faster than anyone else in the world and we tend to Even as expensive as they are. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We do love our tech down here So so we become I think a very good ab testing market for those kind of things as well So you see we see brands like Huawei and oppo kind of trying here first and then whatever works here Kind of gets exported out and they'll even do it. So oppo, for instance, we'll do You know, they they did a whole marketing campaign based around a european football team here But then they once it worked here, they took it to that that teams region So yeah, it's really it's really interesting. Yeah. Yeah, just because there are so many expats and stuff Right live in Australia. There are enough people following it that they're like, oh, I'm interested. Yeah, exactly Exactly. So so it's that kind of stuff. I don't know Raj It's it's also a frustrating the economy being so geographically close to Asia because we we quite often see the The australian tax on things. We're so close. We have we do have really good trade relations with china, especially for our uranium and things like that But it It often means that even though, you know, you buy a custom to order mac for example It gets built and created in asia and shipped out from that But you are effectively paying the us price converted plus a little extra And it is quite frustrating from a consumer standpoint being here and being so close that we are paying extra On top of what the regular conversion might be because the products are built And the shipping arrangements are catered for us companies not for australia Yeah, and then Sydney is closer to shenzhen than la, but yeah, we still pay more That I was talking with somebody about that earlier this week and how we were trying to figure out why that is Because yeah, the theoretically it should be much cheaper to ship something here because you just write down the You know little I I guess it's farther south than it looks on the globe, but it's still closer than la, right Perth, which is the most isolated capital city in the world is actually closer to singapore than any australian capital city Yeah, so why why Perth should have the cheapest singapore electronics You should be able to have anywhere outside of singapore pennies. Yeah in perth, but you can't Well, is that and I think you've mentioned that but it's because all of the it's it's the economy of scale, right They're set up to send everything to north america or europe And you just don't have as much demand because of the population in australia is not as large. Is that why I think it's also just a company like apple famously Will you know build everything around the u.s. Market? So it'll be the the mat marketing is built around the u.s. Market but also the pricing and so You know a company like apple will price the ipad in u.s. Dollars and then Whatever that price is Like products can fluctuate so much in this country based on how well the australian dollar is doing and not actually how it's doing at the time But how apple's uh accountants think yeah, project it will be trying to do the kind of steer against the yeah Yeah, so so like you know one year the ipad might be 460 dollars the next year it might be 520 Based on just what what they see in the markets. Yeah Well in europe is kind of your control factor there because even though they build around the u.s. Market they do Uh, they it's not as expensive in europe as it is in australia relatively speaking It doesn't seem like it like it is But then when brexit happened you saw them start to do the same steering With the pound because there there was more volatility there. Yeah, I mean, I think it all kind of balances out though We do pay Our general take-home pay is actually quite high. Are we when you look at it that way? So yeah, we do pay a lot of that would be coming in as tax as well Some of the the kind of australia tax that you see is actual australia tax Yeah, but that you know we make it up in the fact that our wages are probably a little bit higher There's no new zealand headquarters that they can get around Okay Uh, well, I think we'll move on to our second patron suggested topic. Uh, this is from mike wiseman Who asks could you discuss how australians view net neutrality? And how does their government regulate the internet now? I'm very curious to hear what you guys think of the whole net neutrality debate in the u.s But then I think it gives us a nice window to talk about mbd and telstra and and how things have differed here in general too. Yeah, well our government sort of has Uh a take on net neutrality by enforcing a terrible network that the australian people have to use Yes, exactly. It gives us a doorway right there Straight into it. Uh the mbn. Yeah, uh, no, look, that's not true net neutrality. Yeah, so yeah, sorry national broadband network Which is a government funded infrastructure scheme to allow Originally to put fiber to everyone's home every home in australia would have a fiber connection That's then changed over the years with the change of government. Anyway talked about that a lot on on many many australian podcast, but uh net neutrality is a different one I guess we see it From from afar and we see what's happening in the u.s. And um, it is quite scary in terms of the the the change because a lot of got australian policy and a lot of Australian infrastructure is decided or influenced on by What happens in the u.s. And if that is net neutrality in the u.s. Then There's a very good chance that it's going to be rolled out over here We're seeing different things around mandatory metadata collection by internet providers in australia as a security Implement implementation that the government is in force now And doing a whole sort of range of different things Very much bordering on the net neutrality sense So I wouldn't be surprised if we start hearing sort of rumblings or talking of it in the next five years or so that that's It's the way that it will go if it eventuates in the u.s. But we don't really know how it's well I don't really know how it's going to affect us in terms of accessing us services from here as well Like does that mean that our wholesale partners that have Pacific cables that go across of the u.s. Will be pulling down data because the Endpoint on the west coast has agreements with the bigger providers Or does that mean that the they retain that sort of even playing field and everything's just piped out at Same speed like that that sort of stuff hasn't really been conveyed and the general australian public I don't think even knows what net neutrality is and it's uh, it's also a confusing talk point from You know, is net neutrality a good thing or a bad thing people just hear the words net neutrality They don't know like the the sometimes the word neutrality is a bit Obstificated in a way that it doesn't really stand out that no net neutrality is is kind of what you want You want this even playing field but people just sort of see a headline or don't really understand it So I don't think we're generally educated in it over here a lot of us technical and technically inclined people are But um, it's it's all a bit of a wait and see type of situation for us and hopefully It doesn't come out Well, I I think you know the loss of it We we without getting too far down the rabbit hole of net neutrality again because there are so many different opinions on it And we've done shows about it before but the upshot is If you have enough competition In in markets that do net neutrality is often not a problem So in korea, for instance, the government has taken the role of fostering competition of making it easy for multiple fiber operators to Run fiber into a particular building and they net neutrality isn't a concern then because Anybody who changes how they manage traffic risks losing customers if they do in a way the customers don't like right? Uh, and and then we see other systems like in england where they they've done, you know open loop bundles saying You know All we're going to do is say if you build the network you have to open it to competition Uh in the u.s What what's happening is they're saying we don't want regulation, but we also don't want to foster competition So you're kind of getting the worst of both worlds What's it like in australia with the national broadband network? It's not the only option for people and it's kind of government run But not well, it's supposed to be the the government run side of things. It's supposed to be the the pipes Um the the backhaul and you know, uh that then a retailer Um or a reseller would then sell you the internet package Over those so the government lays the the cables and then says we'll charge you to get access and then you build your business on it Exactly. Okay. Exactly. Um, and you know, I I think net neutrality first of all as you know, as raj said, it's a terrible term it needs better marketing it has done for years, but um, yeah I don't think it's ever really kind of grabbed the attention of australians as it should have And I and I think part of that is because there really has never been really net neutrality in this country Anyway, which is really sad like in the sense of um, you know, like I Where I've just moved into uh, I only have the option of adsl There's no higher Yeah, there is no cable. Um, I I finally did find a wireless internet provider Um, which is a whole another story, but you don't have fiber. Uh, but no, we don't have fiber We don't have uh, just even hfc, uh, is it supposed to come to your neighborhood someday? Yeah, when we moved in it was supposed to come in march and now it's I think june june next year. Um, But yeah, it's it's just one of those things. So I know when I hear americans on various shows Talking about well, I've only got the one choice in my area. What they mean is I only have the one choice of cable in my area Um, we don't normally even have the choice of cable. We have adsl or nothing And so I think that has kind of you know has blunted the argument a little bit anyway It's like well, my internet sucks like who cares like, you know, how could they make it any worse? You know, it's like that's in the life of brian if you know what i'm talking about, but um It's it's just a yeah, it's a it's a strange situation and then on the other side we have like on the on the mobile devices We have a really really strong competition But we have those like people have just accepted a lot of those zero rating stuff that I don't know say patrick beige Uh has issues with um, so for instance if you're on telstra, you get the afl for free If you're on optis you get soccer the the premier league for free if you're on vodafone You get netflix for free now is this on your wired or on your wireless wireless Okay, we have similar things like Verizon will give you the nfl if you're on yeah stuff like that. So okay So it's it's a weird one. I mean, so where do you where do you sit with that? I do feel comfortable with the paid priority the zero rating thing. Yeah, yeah It's like slightly it's it's funny because like in india Facebook ran into like stiff opposition to zero rating in india They're like no zero rating is a violation of net neutrality and and the general populace Will not allow it and they had to pull out of india with their free basics because the idea of free basics was Without charging you data We'll give you access to wikipedia bbc news facebook etc And in india they said that is choosing what information we get And facebook's argument was like yeah, but it's free and the idea isn't to Control messages the idea is to give you a little bit of the internet So that when you start to see the value of it or maybe it'll help you build a business or whatever or get a job Then you'll be able to afford to pay for full internet And the idea was never to keep people on free basics But to move them into into to paid in africa that's worked great in africa people love that they're like Yes, this is awesome. We we get some free internet and when I can afford it I'll I'll upgrade so I don't think there is a moral absolute on zero rating I think it has to do with how it's implemented and again my I've been pounding this drum for 10 years now, but my whole Response to net neutrality is if you have effective competition, it's irrelevant The the best way to to make sure there's net neutrality is to make sure people have a choice And if somebody says hey, we're gonna, you know prioritize our own movie system and netflix going to be slow So you should switch to ours people will just get rid of that internet service provider and go to the one that gives you netflix Um Comcast the few times that they have violated net neutrality in the united states bowed down to public pressure And it's still without saying well, it wasn't a violation We were just we weren't snooping for bit torn packets But just that much made them bow out imagine if they could actually switch to something viable So I to me zero rating is like well I think it's fine if you have a balanced playing field where people can decide. Yeah, I don't like that that zero rating thing Uh, but I don't like that if it's unchecked It does allow the carriers to start to pick winners and losers and the whole beauty of the internet was that anybody could access it and start something And I think um, you know, the best way to look at that is is to actually even go further up and say it's not just about net neutrality Um when it comes to competition That's how capitalism works like capitalism is a okay fine system I'll I'll go for fine because it's an american show Capitalism is a fine system when there is competition But when there is not a natural competition in place Then you need regulations or you need something to balance it out because uh, we've seen in markets where someone holds and A very large part of the market. They're less likely to improve. They're less likely to worry about Um losing customers. Yeah, because I don't have that they don't have that worry And I look at my view on net neutrality is almost populist too because I'm not focused on what's good for companies I don't care what's good for companies in in this particular argument I care what's good for me and what's good for me is having choices that I can punish the one who does something I don't like right And that that's why I really appreciate our our phone networks here at least in terms of the cellular side of things Um, I've I've switched uh phone companies all the time like I'm not loyal to my companies at all If someone's offering a better deal, I'm happy to walk away And because our system makes it so easy to just immediately port your number and two hours later all of all of your Uh, you know, your phone is working again. It's back online and um, and there's no, you know I never get a a ding for breaking a contract or anything else That makes them work really hard to keep me and yeah, yeah, it makes a difference The the only other thing I'll add is that um Really with the mbn going back to australia in that We should have the most net neutral Country in the world if we've got a Infrastructure theoretically that is controlled by the government It is provided by the government provides an equal playing field for every internet provider in the country who wants to operate in the country It's the same pricing the same infrastructure the same delivery network We should have the most neutral network in the world But it's being thrown out of proportion and whack because of the Ridiculous pricing that they have on the wholesaling the it's coming in it's being fixed, but very slowly and poorly And then the the constant change to technology requirements or the multi technology mix that the government's That's putting into place because once that they could do it cheaper than the other and they got elected And it all changed and all up people so but theoretically the the original promise of the national broadband network and fiber to every home in australia except for a very small portion of rural regional australia which cannot In any way in shape or fashion have fiber should have provided the most net neutral network in the world Sadly, that's not the case. Well and the reason is it's hard to have a neutral network when there's one person in charge of it Right and in this case the one person was the government But the government it wasn't a violation of net neutrality the way we think of which is oh Telstra decided to to downgrade Netflix so that you know They could push their own video or a fox tail got in and and and you know publish their video ahead That's usually what people think of is like. Oh, you'll you'll slow down the competition What happened here was just a different sort of like well We're in charge so we're not going to do all the things that need to be done to create an effective network and not even not even because they Necessarily wanted to do it that way But because of politics meaning the person who started the project was not the person who carried it on and then they changed their mind Yeah, and so there is a danger to having One entity running it Which is actually why korea i go back to korea all the time and i know people say well korean's smaller It's like well great then do it in massachusetts Or do it just in melbourne like do it in a small region But that way of saying the government's job is to make it easy to start an isp And easy to implement it and run it and and provide the right of way and all of that and then get out of it and let people Do it actually that's why everyone's moving to hope art because it was the first places that got the nvn And it is a beautiful city. It's very small and it is fiber everywhere. It's a it's a paradise That's a Tasmania. Yeah. Oh and also amazing whiskey. Yeah, huh I I always identify hobart with the big dishwashing machine We had a college because it was a hobart dishwashing machine. I don't know if that's any connection Probably not But that's what I think of is a huge dishwashing machine And now I now I have a much better image for the word hobart, which is a beautiest land of flowing broadband Uh and whiskey. Yeah, you got me. I maybe maybe I should just move to hobart. We'll do the show from there I'm thinking about it, man. Yeah. Yeah, it sounds quite enticing How many things kill you in hobart? Nothing. Yeah, it's way too cold all of the all of the stuff that'll kill you The Tasmanian devils aren't that devil-ish. They're almost extinct, right? Yeah, sadly, so We'll talk about snakes Tasmanian tourist board is getting All right, uh anything else on on this topic before we move on that's fine, I think All right, let's talk, uh raj about what you were wanting to bring up Yeah, what's your topic for the round? I'm just going to steal the mic away from yeah, sure Uh, I just want I was just going to talk about e3. It's coming up. We're uh, a little under three weeks away I'm heading over to the wondrous land of the home Yeah, home of the free and the land of the land of the free and the home of the brave Yeah, that one. I'm heading over there. That's where you're from, Tom. Uh, to los angeles for the electronic Entertainment entertainment expo. Thank you. I should know that this is my fifth year or something there Uh, it's it's turning into a bit of a Carnival I think e3 it opened up for the public last year. Yeah changed significantly with that move There's only a limited number of spots, but it's it's definitely changed the way that the um the expo runs Second year round running. They've sold out obviously of all those tickets, which I think were around 250 us a pop So not not that cheap, but then if you weren't media or invited anyway, it was about a thousand dollars to go and uh It's it's this weird sort of game with e3 now of the companies trying to Almost beat it in a way to to run their own show independent of it make the announcements leading up to it We've had announcements from ea from activision from Nintendo all well ahead of e3 And and really control their own message this in similar way to apple's been doing for years where they can have their own show and run their own own Game away from the big convention so they can they can really sort of Stamp their own ground once what sony is not going to do anything but show off a limited number of games this year No hardware announcements. Yeah. Well to be fair sony have got so much of the market right now They could basically not show up. Yeah, and then they run their own sort of uh, PlayStation experience experience events They run one in the northern hemisphere two in the northern hemisphere actually Um, so they they're really running their own gambit in their own way as well They just sort of figure or may as well shot They're probably booked ahead for the next three years anyway. Um, but you know One of the most recent announcements coming up leading up to e3 was activision with a very popular Call of duty franchise Which is gets released every year switches back and forth between One development house and another so they're on a two-year cycle of each of them But this years is jumping on the wonderful Train of battle royale games so your fort knights your player unknown battle grounds your h1z one before the all the others With the new blackout Battle royale campaign They don't really They haven't given many details other than to say that that's the name of it and it's coming Their announcement was literally to turn off the lights at the event Because it was a blackout So interesting clever. Yeah interesting way of doing it uh and um, obviously fort knight is this huge phenomenon at the moment. I I was in a Baptism on the weekend and every parent there was talking about how the kids are addicted to fort knight It's it's that generation's minecraft, right? Yeah, like minecraft minecraft kids have grown up now That's right. I go to college and every single parent I talked to was saying. Oh, well, you know, I can't get them off this thing I said, well, this is just this generation's minecraft Five years ago. It was exactly the same thing with minecraft The argument was well minecraft didn't have them running around shooting things. Well, it kind of did Depends how they played it. So but anyway, so the the new call of duty is coming out with the version of battle royale And we're seeing more and more of battle royale clones coming out more and more multiplayer The new call of duty has no single player campaign whatsoever. It's purely focused on multiplayer zombie maps the normal call of duty stuff the um Uh battle royale mode that's being introduced. Well, battle royale. I mean fortnight I'm sorry epic games itself announced that they're gonna sink a hundred million dollars in fort night e-sports competitions It feels like that is an important thing for new games to have is an e-sports strategy Like how it can be used for e-sports. Yeah, i'm blizzard was part of that with overwatch, but that's that's been a growing trend Yeah, well e-sports is obviously one of the biggest and and fastest growing markets in the world right now Like we're seeing real world You know sports like in australia fox sports is covering e-sports. We've got Bookmakers like gfinity's run In out of the uk focusing on e-sports You cannot release a big triple a game these days without having an e-sports sort of element to it or the potential for one day But because of all this because of things like e-sports because of things like Battle royale and the the the money that these things are making we are seeing less effort and less story driven titles come out There was god of war which recently came out was one of was critically acclaimed and and Minor review of that is still forthcoming It's coming. I promise I finished writing it yesterday It it's one of the few Things we're seeing less and less of these story driven things and more of the multiplayer experience because they're the ones making money They're the ones that capturing people. They're the ones that have the longevity of And they can keep adding seasons or colors or skins or loot boxes and all these different things And sadly it's at the detriment of storytelling. Yeah, and and I for one Want the storytelling it's hard to it's hard to sell a game though at us $60 or $109 or whatever it is here That doesn't have that longevity anymore because these are these are free to play games like fortnight. So what do you do? Like how are we going to lose this? Is it going to be gone forever? Do we have to rely on indie games? Like it's quite sad to see this sort of tilt shifting and games like god of war or horizon zero dawn last year or Um, the last of us, which is probably another massive one from sony that's coming out But that will have multiplayer Like where do we see this going like I I don't want to see the death of single player or campaign driven games Generally the history of gaming is the trend Is started by something successful and it's just like movies, right? And so everybody starts making the vampire movie Everybody starts making the first person shooter or the multi the mmorpg or now or now it's the pub It's the pub g bandwagon But it doesn't kill the other types of games what it does is it forces someone Sometimes indie sometimes not in my opinion anyway to to jump in and say, you know, we're going to do this other style Really good And we're going to do this really well And you get things like the last of us you you you get these very creative takes on it So I don't think it's the death of single player. I think what it is is the valley, right? We're going to have to go through this valley of all the game companies putting all their intention on on battlegrounds and esports Uh until somebody pops up and says well, hey, wait a minute, you know, I I can do this It kind of relates to the net neutrality conversation, right? It would be a problem If all you had was ea And it's like and now they're just doing battlegrounds and it'd be like great Well now nobody but because we have so many different gaming companies It may take a little while for it to shake out, but we'll get something else. That's my feeling Yeah, and it's it's you know, if you look at that that um the movie kind of analogy, uh, you know Cinema goes through these periods as well every every couple of years you hear that uh, cinema cinema is dead and the the Adult contemporary movie is dead and no one's going to see those kind of films And then then a ladybird comes out and everyone goes and sees it You know, so you're waiting for the gaming equivalent of ladybird to come out But we've still got like four more marvel universe ladybird the video game. Maybe that's it First person ladybird. Yeah, it'll be fantastic. But um, yeah, so I I mean, I'm totally with you Like I think one of the worst things to happen to rock star was gta 5 and the fact that it's still it it made more money Last year than any other entertainment franchise on the planet. It made more money than marvel For a game that came out four years ago. Maybe five years ago Um, and it's still just making money on online and the online experience is awful I can't stand it. Um, but yeah, I mean rock star used to be that that publisher that I would I would wait and and I I would go to midnight launches of their games because I couldn't wait to play The next story and and even gta 5 story was pretty kind of crap But but I think that's that's one of those really interesting things where you see Like I I saw my twitter at least my twitter that I follow Go nuts when the red dead redemption trailer came out because it was like, oh my god a story Finally another story like, you know, there are ones that come out like far cry that try Far cry have never been good at telling stories like they've had good characters But they've never actually held it together in a narrative. Whereas. Yeah Yeah, I'm totally with you. I really love those experiences like a like a last of us like a Like the original red dead I cried at the end of the original red dead I couldn't believe it. Well, both of those I've heard people say that you know, there were such moving stories that they teared up about Yeah, I Red Dead Redemption 2 things cross will be amazing, but I think the the the sentiment that I am getting from Some of these single-player game like again god of war because it's recent and relevant But it it felt patted out. It felt like it did have an amazing story It's a father and a son connecting and bonding through, you know absence and the death of the mother and wife and so forth and it is this beautiful amazing graphical adventure with with all this stuff, but there's so much shoved in just fat To lengthen it so it can compete for for screen time with these other titles and you know multiplayer games and things like that that it also It felt too long and I would have gladly paid You know the full price the sticker price for something that was almost half the length of what it was without all this extra filler because It now needs that type of stuff to compete against all of these other sort of genres and titles and non-story different things I also get that I'm older now So you you're tasting your wants and different things change and you know, I like the story part versus you know My friends eight year olds or only want to go home and play Watch either watch someone play fortnight or play fortnight because they can play it and there's this ongoing Do you think there needs to be like a can film festival sundance for video games? After Bafta kind of does they they try to elevate games that And they don't actually give away give out awards every year But every time a game deserves an award the Bafta critics will will give them one so so yeah, they've they've given say journey and The last of us and a couple of other titles because I was thinking about lady bird And the reason lady birds get made is they know they can play the festival circus They can hit sundance. They can hit to ronald. Maybe they can hit can and others And then then they'll be able to find a distributor They'll be able to go out into the landmark cinemas in the u.s. And i'm sure there's equivalents in other countries Where where they will play the art house film so they know they'll get a return And and maybe it'll you know shoot up through the ceiling I don't know that video games have quite the infrastructure for indie games like that yet. I don't know I mean steam, you know steam has things like uh, uh, the stanley parable And little games like that that, you know, there's no way that that game could ever afford to start on an xbox It might be ported later, but it has to start on a pc It has to start as an indie and then kind of go from there and and hopefully I will see some of that stuff on the switch as well because I think that would be great But I mean there are your indies like that. What was the fire watch is the other one everyone loves So there are those kind of is that the lady bird video? Yeah, it's fire watch the lady bird of video. It's not too far. Well, it's a lot of people call it a walking simulator Because you literally just walk around and follow a story There's not much more to it But they've got a very exciting new game coming up called in the valley of gods by the same people Which looks really interesting exploring Egyptian tombs and so forth back in like the mummy era sort of whether you I guess what I'm doing I'm putting together the fact that e3 as much as you know, you're preparing for you kind of know what you're going to get Oh, definitely, you know ahead of schedule What what the big ticket items are there's probably one or two potential sort of big reveals, but a lot of them Leaked like walmart canada leaked one of the mass massive reveals from Bethesda with rage 2 coming out. So You know all of this stuff whether it was leaked on purpose or leaked by accident It's sort of yeah, it stammers out beforehand so they can control their own message and get it out there and Build that buzz and and e3 turns into not Not a press coverage event, but an opportunity for people to go and play games Well, I mean to be fair. That's what can has vane for the last like 30 years. So I guess that really has begun It has moved in my head e3 is cinemacon Which is in las vegas you never hear much about it because it's the It was the movie studios coming out to the theater owners and saying this is when superman will come This is when spider-man will come like these are all the big things and and I don't know that there's a sundance of video games Where you can be surprised and and you don't know quite what's out there Maybe you don't need it. Maybe steam is you know, it's a good point You kind of don't need a distributor deal when you can just put it out on steam I'd say things like packs are kind of like that's a really yeah Packs is a bit that you're right. You're right. You look at the uh, the games that were involved in indie game the movie like super meat boy and brade Fez Even gdc has a little bit of that flavor too One that that comes straight to mind is a title called The the dragon cancer or the guy that cancer dragon Which was a game that a father made for his daughter who had Cancer as a very young age and sadly passed away and that was his way of dealing with it There was a documentary made her out that which I originally saw at the melbourne film festival which led me to the game but that little circuit of um Shows like packs where they showcase upcoming or packs rising Is the name they give them titles is a way for a lot of indie developers to get out and Pack packs is the Sundance of video games. I think I think you you've you've figured it out Anything else before we uh, we move along to the next one See you in la. Oh, yeah, absolutely Uh, right, let's finish up with peter's discussion topic. What do you got for us? I was just um, you know, really interested in seeing the google io announcements. Um, specifically the digital well-being initiative And this was something. Uh, I wrote um about at the start of the year actually about trying to kind of Disconnect a little bit more from the phone and I know i'm not uh unique in in writing that I know a lot of people have kind of come to that idea that something has to be done about how much we kind of devote to The the tiny little glass in our life The black mirror. Yes indeed. Yeah, and I don't want to get like I don't some people can take Man, I saw some abc news australian broadcasting company news promos. I'm like technology It promise so much, but it's ruining like that is the hot way to pitch that story But there is a reality behind it. Yeah, absolutely. And and I really like what I saw from google I think that they're doing um, you know All of all of the stuff that they showed about kind of telling you when you would spend Maybe too much time on your phone And gently asking you if you really want to continue or, you know Draining all of the color out of your screen if you had been You know been on your phone after a certain amount of time. Um, I just really nice subtle and also kind of playful ways of saying like Hey, not judging buddy, but you know, maybe maybe get outside And and it's really I find it really frustrating as an ios user that You can you can already kind of get stuff in the play store that can because of the way google has written android That can kind of take over your phone and really force you off the phone if you need if you want that To be there with your permission with your permission. Exactly. There's also malware that does that but that usually gets kicked out of the place Um, or you know, it's pretends to be facebook, but uh, yeah Whereas in ios of course, you know, that uh third party app developers don't have that That power over the operating system So they're they're relying on oh, sorry We're relying on apple to actually build some of this stuff into the system And and I find it really interesting actually now that I've actually started giving my two and a half year old an iPad Really gently introducing an iPad to her like we've been you know showing it to her for Just a couple of minutes at a time And she can't watch any videos on it. It has to always be an active Uh, you know engagement and it has to be she's playing with something or whatever She can't just sit down and watch some kind of game or educational thing. Exactly. Exactly. Um, and that has been going okay But I kind of wish that there were more tools built in like right now I can I can stop her from buying in-app purchases Right. I can't give her a really friendly way of saying that the iPad only works from 6 p.m To 8 p.m. And and if she's been on for more than 30 minutes It's gonna slowly kind of fade to black and tell her to get up and do something else And of course i'm in the room. I'm not trying to say that she has to be you know, like my iPad has to do Maybe take responsibility No, you need a helping hand People people who say that are often not parrots because if you're a parrot, you know Like it's it's much easier said than done. Absolutely. And and you know the the iPad Like I said, we are really slowly introducing this because we don't want It to become something that she's obsessed with And even after a couple of weeks, she's already like, hey, where's the ipad? Can we play with the ipad? Hey, where's that ipad gone? Yeah. Yeah, because it just works. I mean, it's like the size of a You know widescreen tv for her perspective It's the size of well the ipad pro is the size of the television I had growing up It's 13 inch It's pretty much it But but you know when I look at it anyway, like take that outside Like to take the parental stuff aside I actually need my phone to look after me and my my time on my phone more far more than I You know, I'm watching her her use of technology I I'm more concerned with my own use of technology and I know how bad I am at like disconnecting from email disconnecting from slack disconnecting from twitter and And I'm just wondering like do you guys have any of those kind of um any of those systems in place? Raj Kind of yeah, if if I'm writing I air gap myself I I literally cut off any network connection because I cannot Concentrate on anything except my writing. I can't even have music unless it's sort of a classical Um, something I can't tap my foot along the same way like anything with words will pull me out Yeah, I really have to sort of Coon myself in a An environment that I cannot be distracted by things and in my new I just started a new role a day job a few months ago Excuse me, and it's a lot more as a lot of learning You're all coming up to speed with new systems and tools and stuff like that My multitasking has gone out the window I'd really need to Dedicate myself to being focused on the one particular task that I'm doing completing that task and then moving on to the next task Whereas before and in Roles that I've done for years and years and years it was very much I'll pick this off here, and I'll do this here and so this up. It's it's a little different to Setting a timer on on my engagement with the technology, but uh, I just can't do that in terms Of my work responsibilities at the moment But um, yeah, like I really need to shut down some notifications notifications The worst thing ever for me. I really struggle with the slack ones. I've gone I cannot have the slack slack is only there when I need to be in slack Yeah, email same thing. Um, they they I'll either shut them down or or shove on that do not disturb and and go from there, but in terms of The the devices telling me it's time to stop It's probably something I should have. Do you know what I mean? Like it's something that I should be Far more conscious of I I know that I I spend all day at work with computers. I come home I'm spending all night at work with computers The only time that I'm not on the computer is when I'm setting up a video camera to review something for the computer Do you know what I mean? Like it is an ongoing cycle that that never seems to end Um, that I'm sure my eyes are screaming Help or relief from um, and even like the The the flux stuff the blue screen like the the it's night time. We're gonna hate that get it off I really give me the color. Oh, I love the orange. I can't because I'm looking at graphics Or I might be doing some design and I like no no no no go away. It's all turned off. I need to really shut it I ideal I I like to uh, and this is a this is a bad thing I'm not not I'm not saying it's a good thing But I like to congratulate myself on my ability to manage my devices I I'm very stingy with notifications. I'll often have people say well, why why don't you have your notifications on for instagram? Or why don't you read facebook more often? Did you miss this and that and I'm like, man? I don't want to be disturbed But I think I'm fooling myself By doing that in that I've eliminated the one thing that I hear the complaints most about like oh notifications They kill me. I'm like, yeah, well, I keep those under control, but I'm still pulled back in I'm still always like why better check my email Well, I better go back through slack and and see what people have said and then that gets you stressed out because you run into a problem or a complaint or you know and And in the job that I do I run into complaints all the time because people can just email and whatever They're upset about whether it's the change in time of the round table on monday or the audio quality was off one day or something And so I I think it stresses me out more than I realize Just because of the content of the communication not so much the usage of it Which is why when we've talked about this before on the show, I'm like we need more research I'm not saying that what google is doing is bad. I'm sure apple's gonna have more wwdc about this I I have no doubts about it, but They're just trying things that sound like they would work right they sound like oh, maybe that's a good idea But then you hear raj like no don't gray out my screen. It's like okay. Well, it's not going to work for everybody What's the stuff that will actually help us deal with this because I I have no doubt that this is a New challenge to humanity that we will figure out, but we're in the process of learning Responsible use of these devices and connectivity. Yeah, and I I'm just really surprised I guess that apple haven't taken the lead on this because that that seems to be the kind of area that they would do well in that they are They they tend to be the company that thinks about how the human Interacts with the product. Yeah, just the product liberal arts. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and and finally enough I think the people who have done it best have were blackberry a couple years ago. They had a device That no one bought so, you know, this is going to be new to everyone listening but They had a device that You could set that after you know my work hours were 8 a.m. To 6 p.m. And at 6 p.m. All notifications from certain apps stop And and then they disappear the apps actually disappear until the next day And and I kind of feel that that's you almost need to go that far because yeah in terms of email So basically I've got one set of notifications on on my phone completely and that is My wife can notify me. She can get through. Yeah, everyone everything else is silent I don't even say the pop-ups, but Um, even then I still see every now again. I'll look down and I'll see that outlook Uh application icon and I want to tap it. Yeah, and it's got a number on it Well, no, no, no, I have no numbers on anything. Oh, it's just a dot. Yeah. Yeah, that's a dot No, not even the dot. I just see the icon. You don't even see a notification. Yeah I have no dots at all and you're just drawn to the siren song exactly what might be in there It's almost worse. I know who might have emailed me. Yeah. Yeah, what if no one did? I know well, that's and that's the thing It's just like, you know that like I've had to get into my head And and I think if you if you stop looking at it for a couple of weeks It's like anything, you know, the once you've stopped opening your email after a certain point You realize that like the world didn't burn down around you and and you know, you you get a little bit Well, I mean, obviously some people have jobs where they can't But I am lucky enough to have a job where I can most of the time Um, but yeah, you just you have to understand that like you were saying that it's it's actually the content It's going to either bum you out all night Um, because like see how often do you open up an email and it's like your boss saying, oh a bit disappointed And you know, well, it's Saturday if I reply now, it's going to be weird and I'm in a bad mood now And so I probably should wait till I've calmed down and then I'm just going to stew about it all night And you know, it's just ruined my weekend and anyway, and then Monday. It's no big deal I think that's the bigger problem because you know get muting notifications or turning the screen different colors or whatever Is certainly helpful in in limiting our exposure to it But like you said just seeing that icon, right and and I do the same thing I don't have notifications on for email at all from anyone But I will constantly like well, I better check I better see what's in there That's the thing we need help figuring out is like, how do you stop yourself from doing that? I'm pretty good in the evenings about saying, you know what? I'm just gonna Set that aside and I'm not gonna look at it until tomorrow But then sometimes I feel guilty ridiculously that like, oh, there was an email and I missed it, you know And my wife her job they're cons seven days a week, you know They're they're always expecting a response because they have clients involved or whatever and that culture needs to change One of the greatest things and Pete you alluded to it with You know, whether you can or you can't with your job But one of the best things that I ever did was maybe two years ago Take my work email off my phone I can no longer check my email for work unless I'm sitting at my work laptop or desktop or anything like that Not only did I I've extended that out to slack as well took it took slack off completely off my phone and The world changed like I had no longer was I bummed out because I got an email about something that wasn't working It because it wasn't my job to fix it right until I was in work at work So why should I be concerned or or worrying or anxious or or building up this anxiety when there's nothing I can do about it I might not even be anywhere near a computer that I could do anything about it So why throw that on myself? And it's I never look back I will never ever Unless it's an absolute requirement of my job have my work email or main communication that is supposed to be used at work On me all the time and it just completely changed my world The other thing I did was forced myself to read at night like I would set an 11 p.m That I would normally go to bed around midnight 11 p.m Shut everything down go to bed and read a book. Mm-hmm one great book that I read Tom Merritt's oh Thank you though pilot acts available in bookstores now Actually read that by audio books. I'm like sequel coming Um, yeah, no, but that that again I I self impose that I would take myself away from the situation and even including playing video games Because it doesn't switch my brain off. It would actually stimulate my brain and keep me more awake. So it was very much a Decision to to take myself out of that situation let my brain wind down and get into a sort of normal sleep pattern And I would advocate that everyone do something like that. I think it's great for mindfulness And I am sure I am 100 sure that apple or google or there was a big push for mindfulness and tech and health technology Maybe about four or five years ago. They went health kit sort of started kicking around and then it all just went Just well we got some treadmills that worked with health kit And uh, you know all we can tell you if you're having a heart attack because you're wearing a watch now Maybe it but the actual mindfulness side of it was left to app developers, which I believe it was the abc again the Australian broadcast did a a recent Peace on saying that 80 or 90 percent of mindfulness apps are complete and utter garbage. Yeah, that's the thing It's like it's it's more you need more than just hey We came up with an idea that sounds cool like You need to pair that trying that with study to see like what effect did it have did it actually help people? Let's you know, and I think that's the job of academia to kind of jump in and cooperate with them All right, we got a couple of bonus things here. Uh, first one is from me I know both of you have preached Uh the gospel of contactless payments and and I I have intellectually realized I have intellectually known That yes, it's more common in australia But we do have it in the u.s. So I get how it works Man, can I tell you it is not the same at all When I can go to a pie shop in barama, which is you know population 20 And pay with my iphone and they don't even blink. They're like, yeah, I think that works like everywhere It changed travel for me because I didn't have to think about well Is this card gonna work or do I do I need to get cash? Just always the better option is to use my phone To pay and I maybe Of all the transactions I've made over the past week and a half two or three have been like, oh, yeah That's not gonna work A couple of times it didn't work for other reasons involving the bank being weird like no, we're not sure if that's you But that's good. That's different. Uh, but most of the time it's just dead simple. Like y'all were right Yeah, no, it's it is one of the weird little frustrations about going to the us is um You just forget that cash is still used in places and then it becomes I mean There are a couple of places that I visit regularly that You know ask for cash if you're spending less than five dollars. Sure. That's it That's as much as we were at the victoria market Which is this big vast market, you know full of vendors the kind of place you wouldn't expect credit cards almost everybody Yeah, yeah, it's like a huge pikes, right? Uh in seattle if you're not aware So you wouldn't expect everybody to have credit cards, but they almost all did except for the bratwurst That I bought and they're like cash only I'm like, ah And I was 70 cents short the guy was like that's fine So I went and I got 70 cents from my sister Wasn't with me at the time and I gave it to him and he was appreciative But it was the one exception to prove to the rule because I hadn't even thought about getting cash Yeah, because I hadn't needed up until that point Yeah, when when Fitbit released their their latest watch the Versa They it's an optional extra to get contactless payments in the us and it's it just comes standard here because they know Well, and the stupid not sell it the stupid thing is we had con we had tap cards In tried to be introduced and they were the the machines were put in and it just didn't catch on and I don't know why Uh And when apple pay and and what's now google pay? Uh came out originally They they worked and then Companies would come in like my local drugstore and turn it off like oh, we don't want it to work with apple pay It's just ridiculous. Uh, the other bonus question comes from doctor who says What do they think of all the foods generally thought of as australian such as marmite and vegemite? Why do they both have mite in the name? Marmite isn't australian. It's english, right? Yeah, and it was the original so vegemite. I have researched this today vegemite was came about because there was a marmite shortage in australia and this guy uh Created it and its name was picked out of a hat. Well, there you go Yeah Yeah, um, what do we think about it? Oh, I love it. Let's grow up on the stuff I mean, but the vegemite is the one everyone knows because I think because of uh, the song meant it works song That's that's how everyone learned about vegemite. But but it's essentially the remnants from the brewing process of beer Yeah, so the yeast extract and so forth and I got criticized on instagram for not having enough butter on my turkish bread with my vegemite Well, yeah, yeah, I mean it's a trick for new players that you use way less vegemite than you expect because it is That's the mistake americans make. Yeah, because it is quite horrid and it's been fun to uh To teach my two-year-old that she she has to eat vegemite Um, because it's it's fun watching someone try it for the first time and and see just how disgusting But it's like look you're australian you must eat this so just just just battle on small amounts And then with butter that's the key It's also it's also very good for um mouth ulcers So it's probably the extract and um, yeah, if you have a An ulcer you can just dab it'll sting like buggery There's an australian coagulism But it will um, it's actually good for them. Yeah Well, and then I was told could be watched out now I don't know if these are pan australian or just the regions I was in but schnitzels schnitties schnitties. Yeah Yeah, there's another one That was another thing I've noticed uh australians tend to just like to take words and shorten them Or if it's short, I don't know on the end to make it longer Like like if your name's Dave you'll be Dave. Oh Dave. Oh, okay, uh, st. Vincent de paul thrift shop We have those in the u.s. But they're vinnies here mcdonald's not short enough macas macas. Yeah Uh, so so there's some there's some other australian trends that I've noticed Uh and going around any other foods though pies you guys have great pies Yeah, there is a really good place in downtown l.a called Aussie bottom pies or something like that. I stayed right next door to it. Yeah, they do australian meat pies lambington's Um pasties, uh, which is like a I don't know empanada sort of yeah. Yeah We call them pasties, but yeah same thing. Yeah, but then it sounds like a stripper. So it's probably better the way Well, that's what's gonna stay that schnitz There's another colloquial Yeah, um, yeah, so Yeah, they're actually really good I wish I could remember there's Aussie Aussie pies if you look it up and down. Yeah, they're actually quite good. Um Yeah, there's there's that's veggie mites a big one really. Yeah, I think so that tim tams. Oh tim tams. Yeah Yeah, veggie mites and tim tams. That's our our entire kind of gift to the world. That's that's where we ended and wife Oh, yeah, yeah, we developed wife. I was developed in Australia. I don't think people know that. Yeah Yeah, the uh government funded australian science bureau. That's certainly a step that people should realize. Yeah, there's a whole tv campaign about it Yeah, if you're using wi-fi right now, thank an australian You'll find one eating veggie bite near but nearby at a pie shop Uh, all right. Uh, thank you guys for doing this. This was this was great fun I know you you had to rearrange your schedules to come down here and uh, and I really appreciate it So so, uh, Raj starting with you. Where can people find what you're doing online? You can find me at reconner.com.au We just launched a new podcast called I don't quite know which you will be hit up for sure. I will be honored It's a it's a podcast where I talk to a bunch of people that I've met around the world about something that they're not quite known for So, uh, the pilot episode was with an australian video game presenter called Stephanie Ben Dixon and we talked about the anxiety of content creation and being a woman and being on tv and Body image and all those types of things. So yeah, it's been really well received and it's a part of our Patreon launch So if you want to jump on that train by all means, it's just go to reconner.com.au slash patreon Um, yeah, and that's where you find pretty much everything for me these days excellent Peter wells. Thank you as well working folks find what you're doing. Thank you. Um, yeah, follow me on twitter, uh, peter wells I'm sure it'll be in the show notes And I I'm actually launching something too. Um, which is kind of cool The age has finally given me a column to talk about podcasting, which might be near and dear to the listeners heart So, uh, yeah, so that's going to be fun. I'm gonna. Um, so right now I've got a weekly tech column with them And yeah from next week, I'll have a weekly podcast column as well We're all fantastic. Yeah trying to show some of the the shows out there that I love and getting people You know interested in them. So I might actually have to talk to you as well about that I would also be interested in that of myself. It's funny at the reception for my nephew's wedding Which is the whole reason I came to Australia this time. Uh, I was getting hit up by a few people Because they knew I was a podcaster for recommendations for other podcasts That you know, I mean, they were always interested They were nice enough to be pretend to be interested in what I mine was But then they'd say like well, what else do you listen to? And I I've been looking for good podcasts. It seems to be There's an appetite for people to get these kind of recommendations now. Yeah. Yeah I mean, I think it says a lot that I'm replacing the the radio the weekly radio column. So really yeah, that is that is kind of a milestone That's crazy Also, huge thanks to James. You may if you're watching the video, I've seen him lurking in the background James just had a baby And uh was not planning for that baby to have happened as soon as it was but he he Stole away from baby land to come downtown here in the CBD and set this up for us And of course, he had to go back But huge thanks to james and culture amp the company that james works for that was the space that we're at Culture up does some really cool stuff there from what I don't mean to speak for them But from what I can gather their mission is to make start-up culture better to make it to improve it to provide analytics We always hear analytics like oh analytics are being used to manipulate you and they're saying let's use analytics to make Workplaces better for people. So that that that's a pretty cool mission to be on and and very generous to let us use the space and I believe james is a part of the mac admins podcast. Yeah Yeah, so he's the producer of the mac admins podcast. It is a fine podcast I am a mac admin by trade so I do listen to it every week And if you if you do anything with max more than about 50 of them In an organization, you should definitely be listening. It's very good listening. Take it from the ages podcast recommendation columnist Mac admins podcast dot mac admins dot org Hey folks, if you'd like more of these roundtable shows We usually do them, you know the normal way out of the studio in los angeles But we did have an all canadian episode. We've had an all australian episode. We had an all space episode We like to pull them around themes and and look at all these various Ways of looking at technology to change the perspective and we want to do that more often right now We're doing it once a month, but if we can get 2000 more dollars in our patreon We can do them more often and we can do at least twice a month So think about up in your pledge There's some perks to that if you haven't already and everybody who does support us Thank you very much at patreon.com Slash dts our email address is feedback at daily tech news show dot com. We're live monday through friday Usually at 5 4 30 p.m. Eastern 2030 utc at alphakeak radio dot com and diamond club dot tv and our website is daily tech news show dot com In a few short hours, sarah and roger will be back with patrick vasio. We'll talk to you then Okay Hey speaking of mini hats What Oh, that's amazing It's a sydney swans hat folks That's great. I so wish I had the dts hats hadn't come in yet Or I would have brought brought some for you as well. That's That looks good I'm red white and blue Thank you so much I will definitely add this proudly to the rotation Oh I bought some afl cards. Are you do you follow afl? He cares more about the grid I am he sees oh, yeah I showed these uh to p and I don't think I got a very good pack from what we were from what we were But maybe maybe you can find more more gems in there than we did He's sure he used to be good at calling wood years ago. Yeah. Yeah. Well, but he's also a despicable human being He's beaten a crap out of people. Yeah Anyway, she's bringing in red crouches. All right. Yeah, there we go. Yes. Yeah, but at a late Yeah, no, does she play in the afl or no, there's a w afl. Okay. They don't he started last year I I'm getting a lot of That kind of pack My sister my sister was laughing at me when I bought those. There's one of those last minute We were checking out at a 7-eleven and I'm like, oh, yeah Did it come with gum? No, no gum just the pack No, you get these like special foil cards now instead Sadly Oh, hey bleak bleak says nice seeing you in city nice nice seeing you as well Uh, we are going to be going to the melbourne meet up here shortly I'm going to stop down the live stream and and post this and then at 50 minutes from when we're recording this right now. We're going to head over to bar tronica which is in flinders lane And uh, if you stick around to the end you might see my sister So I don't know if that means you might want to leave soon or if that's a I don't know if that's a Plus or a minus for people but I lean will be there too. Yeah, I lean came to the city meet up as well. Yeah Yeah, so um, yeah, my sister and uh, and I lean will be showing up Because we've we've got dinner plans that they're going to drag me away to move for but uh, but six to eight If you're there for that, uh, we'll be hanging out and having some some beers VB has been my favorite so far on this trip No Of of the of the big brands. I'm not talking about craft beers Yeah, what else is maybe one? Um, a couple of awards when they changed the label and didn't tell anyone But what if you go in german style? Yeah, it's easy drinking No, I don't I don't know. I don't couldn't tell you the others that Cooper's pile. No, okay. Yeah, no West Endura I don't think I've had that or X pressman cider was another one that I like Well, make sure you have some Tasmanian whiskey before you all right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah luck is incredible We'll pick me a good Tasmanian whiskey to ply Eileen with so that I can convince her that we have to move there to the good broadband World awards one year. Yeah, and Sullivan's Cove just won again this year But it went from 200 dollars bottles for about 600 dollars after it's when so and it's it's quite hard to get your hands on Did you hear the story behind net? So net was all a scam a rebottling other whiskey or something So that was I've heard this from other whiskey manufacturers in the u.s. And japan too they they start to run out of their supplies. So they Yeah Yeah, in fact centauri. I think is not going to make the hibiki That was featured in lost in translation anymore because they They ran out and rather than pull a scam. They're like, we're just gonna retire the 15. I think there's a 15 anyway Thanks for joining us on whiskey talk Um very important about a bleak it bought me a pressman's at heart's pub the sydney meetup And that started my my love affair with pressmen's they had pressmen's at the reception And I went up to the counter and and the the nice bar person Explained the two ales that they had and I saw the pressmen's tap and I was like So is there no pressmen's they can like oh, maybe it was out or something. She's like, oh You want a cider and I'm like, yeah. Yes. I do. Thank you very much Um, but you guys seem to have a lot of ciders here. Yeah, they're really popular at the moment Yeah, I wish they were more popular in california. They're very popular in seattle Uh, and and I think they're starting to get more popular in la but I do I do love a good cider All right, uh, we are gonna end the uh the video stream here But thanks everybody uh for staying up late if you're in the u.s. Uh, or just hanging out in the afternoon If you're in australia or somewhere else in the world, we'll see you later. Bye. Bye now